The New Bogleheads Facebook Page

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Mel Lindauer
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The New Bogleheads Facebook Page

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Hi Everyone:

The Bogleheads community is expanding its outreach. Thanks to a lot of behind-the-scenes work, our community will now be making use of the social-networking Facebook platform to reach even more folks.

So, without further ado, Taylor and I would like to post the following announcement from the three Boglehead Facebook Administrators, Kathleen, Mahendra and Nadeem.
We would like to announce and welcome you to the Bogleheads.org Facebook Community Page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boglehead ... 045?ref=ts

The Facebook page is a satellite webpage that will serve to spread the word about the Bogleheads and encourage Facebook users to visit the Bogleheads Forum.

The purpose of Bogleheads.org Facebook Community Page is to reach as many people as possible in order to spread the word about John C. Bogle’s low-cost indexing philosophy. It will:
o Provide links to interesting articles about Mr. Bogle.
o Provide links to other Bogleheads areas of interest, such as the Bogleheads.org forum.
o Provide links to video interviews with Mr. Bogle.
o Let people know about the books Mr. Bogle has written.
o Let people know about the books written by other Boglehead authors.
o Let people know about the Boglehead reunions.
o Let people know about the local chapters and their events.
o Provide links to interesting posts on the forum.

The Administrators will be making the posts in order to avoid redundancy or off-topic subjects. We look forward to having people discover our site and tell their friends about Mr. Bogle and his investing philosophy.
A FAQ on the Facebook page is available on the Wiki Page at http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/FAQ_on_T ... ebook_Page

The Facebook administrators are from the Bogleheads community. They are Kathleen, Mahendra and Nadeem. They can be reached via email at thebogleheads@gmail.com.
Mel & Taylor
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Post by sommerfeld »

I'm not sure I like where this is going.

I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.

How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
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Post by Mel Lindauer »

sommerfeld wrote:I'm not sure I like where this is going.

I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.

How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
I'm with you, sommerfield, I don't have a Facebook account either (I closed mine some time ago when I got concerned about privacy issues).

The content of the Facebook page will be mostly a rehash of things we all see and learn about here on the forum. The purpose of the Facebook page is to reach those who aren't familiar with the Bogleheads' (and Jack Bogle's) message, and this forum. I should add that only the Admins will be able to post content; it will not be a two-way exchange as this forum is.

Our hope is that the Facebook page will drive traffic to this site, not the other way around.
Last edited by Mel Lindauer on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tnf »

I am one of the 3 admins of the Facebook page. There is no plan to migrate the main Forum to Facebook.

The Facebook Page is a satellite page to the main Forum (www.bogleheads.org) site. The intent of the page is to establish a presence on Facebook and spread the word about the Boglehead investing principles, encourage Facebook users to visit the Forum and join in the discussions if they are interested.

Content is very limited and users cannot post on the Wall. The administrators occasionally post articles, many of which are drawn from the main forum site.

You can view the content by visiting the Facebook page, it is in the public domain (as is the Forum).
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Post by Christine_NM »

I didn't know this was happening, but I've been expecting BH on FB for a while.

I tried FB, found it hollow. It would be good for those with umpteen grandchildren to keep track of. Otherwise, meh.
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Post by dbr »

You can sure leave me out.
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Post by KyleAAA »

Good move to reach a younger demographic. I was fortunate to be exposed to indexing in my teens, but most teenagers aren't so lucky.
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A win-win for everybody

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Hi sommerfeld:
I'm not sure I like where this is going.


Most of us welcome the opportunity to spread the Boglehead Philosophy. Perhaps you don't understand.
I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.


I don't have a facebook.com account. I don't resent those who do.
How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?
Whether or not you trust facebook is immaterial. Your use of the Boglehead forum is unaffected.

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
This forum has its content; facebook has theirs. Now we can access each other's content if we want. It's a win-win for everybody. Use the first link in our Opening Post and you will understand. You don't need to register to find many interesting Boglehead articles on facebook.
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Alex Frakt »

sommerfeld wrote:I'm not sure I like where this is going.

I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.

How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
I share your concerns. When I was first informed that they were going to make an active Facebook page, this was my response:
I personally cannot stand Facebook, but I do see the importance of maintaining a presence and controlling our message there. However, there is one major issue that needs to be addressed. Given that Facebook users use their real names and usually provide other identifying information such as location and college, it will certainly be would be possible in some instances to discover the true identity of forum members if they "friend" us on Facebook.

For this reason, the Facebook page should contain no unique content. That way there will be no need for forum members who wish to remain anonymous to friend us on Facebook. We should also prohibit photos of anyone who has not explicitly agreed to be shown on Facebook. It is already possible, and will soon be trivial, to find the identity of unknown people in photographs.
Later on, after the following exchange exchange took place regarding the profile of one of the Facebook admins:

X: For those not familiar with the situation, it's the fact that Y's profile lists a political affiliation. Regardless if this link hasn't been used for 10 years.

Y: Where and what are you referring to? I changed those who can view my political affiliation on face book to friends only. Is this what you meant? I haven't been on facebook for ten years so it might not be. Please elaborate.


I added:
We are running across the single greatest problem with Facebook. It's almost impossible to separate your public and private lives unless you use multiple accounts and are extremely careful about not mixing them. I made the mistake of thinking I could keep them separate through the use of separate groups and being very careful with all the dozens of privacy settings only to find on two separate occasions that Facebook had unilaterally changed everyone's privacy settings and exposed information that I wished to keep to my immediate friends. After the second time, I deleted everything and de-friended everyone - I've been personally threatened by someone who was unhappy with how something was handled on the forum and I did not want to risk giving them a list of my friends and family. All I have there now is a shell account - people have to send me a message if they want to connect.

I urge everyone to be extremely careful with the information we put on the site, we do not want to risk exposing people's financial situation. Remember that you cannot really delete things on Facebook. Once any information is up, it is in their database forever and they claim the right to use it as they wish.
The Facebook page admins have taken my (and other's) privacy concerns to heart. Only admins can post photos or wall updates and what gets put up on the wall are only links to discussions on the forum or boglehead info (such as Jack's speeches and appearances) on other sites. Finally, there is no private content on the page, you can see exactly the same info whether you "friend" it or view the page without logging in or even having a facebook account.
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Post by dbr »

Given that the Forum is openly soliciting financial support, and that I have indeed contributed myself, what fraction of the resources so solicited will go to this new initiative?
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Post by Alex Frakt »

I should add that the creators of the Facebook page have given me admin privileges on it. If you see something troubling on the page, you can send me a PM and I'll be able to deal with it.
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Post by Alex Frakt »

dbr wrote:Given that the Forum is openly soliciting financial support, and that I have indeed contributed myself, what fraction of the resources so solicited will go to this new initiative?
None.
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Post by dbr »

Alex Frakt wrote:
dbr wrote:Given that the Forum is openly soliciting financial support, and that I have indeed contributed myself, what fraction of the resources so solicited will go to this new initiative?
None.
Thanks That is reassuring.

For those who find it useful, by all means enjoy.
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Post by ObliviousInvestor »

KyleAAA wrote:Good move to reach a younger demographic. I was fortunate to be exposed to indexing in my teens, but most teenagers aren't so lucky.
Ditto.

It's important for people to realize that anything you put on Facebook or do on Facebook is essentially public or could be made so. (And so I absolutely understand those who choose not to have an account.) But I don't think that detracts in any way from the merits of taking the Boglehead message to the masses.
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Post by Alex Frakt »

dbr wrote:For those who find it useful, by all means enjoy.
There is no reason to visit the page if you are a regular here. The idea behind it is to make people who think the internet is Facebook aware of the general bogleheads philosophy and provide a pointer to the forum and wiki so they can get more information.
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Post by sscritic »

Whatever facebook tells you today about privacy, they will change the rules tomorrow.
User Address and Mobile Phone Number
We are now making a user’s address and mobile phone number accessible as part of the User Graph object. Because this is sensitive information, we have created the new user_address and user_mobile_phone permissions. These permissions must be explicitly granted to your application by the user via our standard permissions dialogs.
http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/446
And obviously users can restrict access by navigating the (far from) simple privacy settings.
http://www.salon.com/technology/faceboo ... es_numbers
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Post by Scott S »

Sweet! I love Facebook, and this should help get the word out to more of the young folk. 8)

- Scott
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Post by djorg »

I don't really understand facebook, so here's my question. This new page does not come up if you search facebook for "bogleheads", "the bogleheads", or "bogle". You have to search "bogleheads.org". I found this out trying to find the page without clicking the link on this thread.

Is there a way to make the page more search friendly? Although I don't really know if there is an advantage to being search friendly or not.

I am currently entertaining the decision as to whether or not to "like" the page. I have never "liked" anything before but I do "like" this forum. :D
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Post by dbr »

Alex Frakt wrote:
dbr wrote:For those who find it useful, by all means enjoy.
There is no reason to visit the page if you are a regular here. The idea behind it is to make people who think the internet is Facebook aware of the general bogleheads philosophy and provide a pointer to the forum and wiki so they can get more information.
Oh, as long as it does not drain resources from this Forum, it can be a very good idea. My antipathy to Facebook should not affect anyone else. A member of my household is a Facebook maven and seems to achieve positive things thereby. Many other people I know do as well. There are also some pretty scary things I have seen that should be giving people more pause than they do, but that is their issue. I am certainly familiar with the tool and would prefer to avoid it, but to each his own.
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Post by tadamsmar »

sommerfeld wrote:I'm not sure I like where this is going.

I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.

How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
Looks like the Bogleheads Facebook page is just like any other website.

You don't need a Facebook account to look at the Bogleheads Facebook page.

Nobody ensures that all Boglehead-related content from all the world's web pages are posted here. Follow the link if you are interested in the content.

I bet you share more personal information by using the Bogleheads Investment Forum and by using numerous other web sites than you will by merely looking at the Bogleheads Facebook page.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by oragne lovre »

Should we set up a poll to see what other Bogleheads think about the Facebook initiative?
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Post by Scott S »

djorg wrote:I don't really understand facebook, so here's my question. This new page does not come up if you search facebook for "bogleheads", "the bogleheads", or "bogle". You have to search "bogleheads.org". I found this out trying to find the page without clicking the link on this thread.
It might not automatically come up in the drop-down list, but if you type in "bogle" and click the "See more results for..." option at the bottom, it should come up quickly. I think Facebook uses some "intelligence" to guide your searches, so if you don't "like" much, or don't have many "friends" (no offense ;)), or very much info posted, you may have to dig a little deeper. I wouldn't be surprised if FB is something like Google where more hits make something easier to find. So a new, small group may not be springing to the top of the list yet.

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Post by Alex Frakt »

dbr wrote:Oh, as long as it does not drain resources from this Forum, it can be a very good idea.
It won't drain anything. The page is being run by volunteers who have no formal ties to this site, except for being members. They did the planning and work themselves. There is no monetary cost for having a facebook page and because no one except admins can post there, the only ongoing time cost is putting up new links when they feel something is worth a look.

Our only direct connections are 1) as a courtesy they have asked the opinions of Mel, Taylor and I in the initial planning of the page (and have incorporated our concerns by adjusting the page privacy settings and info text) and 2) as I mentioned above, they have given me admin privileges for emergency use.
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Post by tadamsmar »

ObliviousInvestor wrote:
KyleAAA wrote:Good move to reach a younger demographic. I was fortunate to be exposed to indexing in my teens, but most teenagers aren't so lucky.
Ditto.

It's important for people to realize that anything you put on Facebook or do on Facebook is essentially public or could be made so. (And so I absolutely understand those who choose not to have an account.) But I don't think that detracts in any way from the merits of taking the Boglehead message to the masses.
Anything you do on any website is essentially public or could be made so. Facebook is no different in that respect.
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Post by woof755 »

Someone I know looks at my profile and sees that I "like" Bogleheads. "What the h*ll's that?" he or she asks.

15 seconds later that person is either:

a) Satisfied knowing I'm definitely the geek they always thought I was

or

b) noses around the site a bit to see what the hubbub is about and maybe actually learns something.

No big deal, I think.
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Post by tnf »

djorg wrote:I don't really understand facebook, so here's my question. This new page does not come up if you search facebook for "bogleheads", "the bogleheads", or "bogle". You have to search "bogleheads.org". I found this out trying to find the page without clicking the link on this thread.

Is there a way to make the page more search friendly? Although I don't really know if there is an advantage to being search friendly or not.

I am currently entertaining the decision as to whether or not to "like" the page. I have never "liked" anything before but I do "like" this forum. :D
djorg, as one of the 3 admins I am replying to your post.

Thanks for informing us about the search results you are seeing. We would certainly like the page to be visible in searches within Facebook but have no way of influencing what search results are displayed.

We have no plans to advertise the page on Facebook, so spreading the word about its presence would be through users adding it to their "Likes and Interests" and recommending it to their friends. Once new users visit the page we would want them to read about the Boglehead investing philosophy posted in the "More Info Tab", read some of the articles about John Bogle and the Bogleheads, and visit the main Forum site to participate in the discussions.
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Post by mtb286 »

KyleAAA wrote:Good move to reach a younger demographic.
+1

I also think that there could be great success with twitter. I know that Dave Ramsey just created a twitter account and already has 22,000 followers.

I definitely appreciate all those involved who help run this site and promote the Bogle Philosophy. It's a selfless act that I'm sure takes a lot of time and is done for little or no financial gain. Thank you!!
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Post by tadamsmar »

woof755 wrote:Someone I know looks at my profile and sees that I "like" Bogleheads. "What the h*ll's that?" he or she asks.

15 seconds later that person is either:

a) Satisfied knowing I'm definitely the geek they always thought I was

or

b) noses around the site a bit to see what the hubbub is about and maybe actually learns something.

No big deal, I think.
"liking" Boglehead's Facebook page does help spread the word to your "friends". But you could (in theory) be giving up some privacy by doing that. A "friend" might be able to find all your posts on Bogleheads, for instance, with a little detective work.

In most cases, I think your Facebook page gives away your identity more so that your Boglehead forum account.
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Post by earlyout »

Who has the copyright on the term "Bogleheads" and the variations of the name? What happens if the facebook admins decide to take their facebook account in a different direction and open it up to public posting. We could then see a rapid dilution or even contradiction of the boglehead message that would be very difficult to overcome. Already there are links to questionable content.

Let's all hope it works out.

EO
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Post by bob90245 »

I'm on Facebook and don't click on anything else to "like". I fear that would just give other "likers" access to my Facebook profile.
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Post by Jacotus »

tadamsmar wrote:
woof755 wrote:Someone I know looks at my profile and sees that I "like" Bogleheads. "What the h*ll's that?" he or she asks.

15 seconds later that person is either:

a) Satisfied knowing I'm definitely the geek they always thought I was

or

b) noses around the site a bit to see what the hubbub is about and maybe actually learns something.

No big deal, I think.
"liking" Boglehead's Facebook page does help spread the word to your "friends". But you could (in theory) be giving up some privacy by doing that. A "friend" might be able to find all your posts on Bogleheads, for instance, with a little detective work.

In most cases, I think your Facebook page gives away your identity more so that your Boglehead forum account.
Although, I would say that the one piece of information which is usually not posted on Facebook is financial stats, whereas people are pretty open about that here (under the assumption of anonymity, of course).
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Post by LadyGeek »

The wiki has a Facebook FAQ, which can be accessed from the left side menu on every wiki page. There's a very clear warning about privacy.

Wiki article link: FAQ on The Bogleheads Facebook Page

No Facebook for me.
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Post by tnf »

tadamsmar wrote:
woof755 wrote:Someone I know looks at my profile and sees that I "like" Bogleheads. "What the h*ll's that?" he or she asks.

15 seconds later that person is either:

a) Satisfied knowing I'm definitely the geek they always thought I was

or

b) noses around the site a bit to see what the hubbub is about and maybe actually learns something.

No big deal, I think.
"liking" Boglehead's Facebook page does help spread the word to your "friends". But you could (in theory) be giving up some privacy by doing that. A "friend" might be able to find all your posts on Bogleheads, for instance, with a little detective work.

In most cases, I think your Facebook page gives away your identity more so that your Boglehead forum account.
As one of the admins of the Facebook Page I am replying to your message.

As Alex has alluded to in a previous post on this topic, we spent a lot of time discussing various privacy concerns and putting in place settings to protect these as best available. As we state in the FAQ on the Wiki Page http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/FAQ_on_T ... ebook_Page you need to be careful not to link your Bogleheads Forum username to your Facebook profile name.

All content on the Forum is in the public domain, and the concern you raised on searching posts applies to the Forum. We need to be careful about guarding our identity in our posts.
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Post by firewynd »

I think this is a good move. This will help reach out particularly to those younger folks.

Good move. :-D
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Post by tnf »

earlyout wrote:Who has the copyright on the term "Bogleheads" and the variations of the name? What happens if the facebook admins decide to take their facebook account in a different direction and open it up to public posting. We could then see a rapid dilution or even contradiction of the boglehead message that would be very difficult to overcome. Already there are links to questionable content.

Let's all hope it works out.

EO

EO, as one of the 3 admins I am replying to your post. I would like to allay your concern on the direction of the Facebook page.

The Bogleheads.org Facebook page is a collaborative effort between three Forum members and the Bogleheads Forum leadership. We started work on this page in October 2010 after getting the support of Taylor and Mel. Rick Ferri was instrumental in coalescing the leadership's support for establishing an official presence on Facebook. Alex, Mel and Taylor have full access to the administrator privileges and have been closely involved in the structure of the page and its format. We have also consulted with the Wiki administrators and sought their input and advice.

There are a few pages on Facebook started by other Bogleheads. The Bogleheads.org Facebook page differs in that it is supported by Taylor, Mel and the Forum administrators. It would always reflect their vision of the Bogleheads. The Facebook page is not in the least about what the 3 admins want from the page, it is about spreading the Bogleheads message on Facebook, a medium that is very popular with the younger demographic.

Please pm me on the content you've flagged as questionable, thanks for raising this concern.

We also thank the posters who've chimed in and clarified some of the concerns and to all who've added to this discussion.
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Post by jameson71 »

Just wanted to express my support for the bogleheads facebook page. As was said earlier, great way to get the message to the younger generation.
Last edited by jameson71 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rick Ferri »

Congratulations on getting the Facebook page up and running. I know a lot of people worked hard to get it done. A Facebook presence will help spread the Bogleheads message to a younger generation.

Rick Ferri
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Post by norookie »

:D I was going to post after the first response. I too think after a reread it might help " get the BH word out .I'm not thinking FB will be here 5-8 yrs from today though. :D Just my 'bet".
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Post by Sheepdog »

firewynd wrote:I think this is a good move. This will help reach out particularly to those younger folks.

Good move. :-D
Fully agree, but not just younger folks. I have several older friends in the 60s and 70s who are very active and enjoy Facebook. I would like them to learn as well.
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Post by bttn_2010 »

I have no problem with a Bogleheads FB page and in fact, am glad that there is now an "official" FB page if only to act as a placeholder.

I'll still be using this board over the FB page, but I'm looking at this more on the "brand real estate" business angle.
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Post by simplesimon »

Could one of the FB page admins shed light to how they plan to spread the Bogleheads page with the rest of FB besides the fact that it exists? It's not like some 22 year old college grad looking for finance advice will search for "Bogleheads" in the search bar.
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Post by LonePrairie »

I'm glad to see the BH page on Facebook. Thank you, volunteers!

By the way, FB is not just for kids -- last time I checked, women over 55 were the fastest growing demographic on the site.
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Post by ResNullius »

sommerfeld wrote:I'm not sure I like where this is going.

I do not have and will never have a facebook.com account. I suspect I'm not the only conscientious objector here.

How do we ensure that folks who don't trust facebook.com aren't left out?

Can we ensure that all the real content posted to that page is also posted on bogleheads.org?
That's a big 10-4.
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Post by jameson71 »

simplesimon wrote:Could one of the FB page admins shed light to how they plan to spread the Bogleheads page with the rest of FB besides the fact that it exists? It's not like some 22 year old college grad looking for finance advice will search for "Bogleheads" in the search bar.
Not an admin, but the way I envision it working is one of 2 ways:

Non-boglehead sees in his news feed that one of his friends "likes" the bogleheads page and decides to check it out or

Non-boglehead is checking out a friend's profile and sees that one of his likes is the bogleheads page and check it out.

I'd like to point out that Vanguard also has a facebook page.
Last edited by jameson71 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
word
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:32 pm

Post by word »

I find the significant number of negative response here to be quite odd. Facebook is entirely at will, no one is compelling you to participate. I think it is a good way for the site to grow and spread the message.
tnf
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:23 pm

Post by tnf »

simplesimon wrote:Could one of the FB page admins shed light to how they plan to spread the Bogleheads page with the rest of FB besides the fact that it exists? It's not like some 22 year old college grad looking for finance advice will search for "Bogleheads" in the search bar.
I am replying to your message (as one of the 3 FB page admins).

As regards spreading the word about the Bogleheads on Facebook. We are presently relying on the community of users who choose to "Like" the page to spread the word amongst their Facebook friends. This can be easily done by inviting your friends to view the page using the "Suggest to Friends" link on the Bogleheads.org Facebook Page.

Spreading the word beyond the community of users would be very helpful to our goal, and I will research this topic further by reviewing FAQs and help files on Facebook. If anyone has any ideas please add to this post.

We have neither the means nor plans to use paid advertising on Facebook.
exigent
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Post by exigent »

mtb286 wrote:I also think that there could be great success with twitter. I know that Dave Ramsey just created a twitter account and already has 22,000 followers.
The Bogleheads are already on Twitter: http://twitter.com/bogleheads

...but only 685 followers as of right now. :(
pdxgreen
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Post by pdxgreen »

To the admins: if you visit http://www.facebook.com/username, you should be able to set a username for the page so that it's reachable at http://www.facebook.com/bogleheads or something similar.
exigent
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 8:49 am

Post by exigent »

pdxgreen wrote:To the admins: if you visit http://www.facebook.com/username, you should be able to set a username for the page so that it's reachable at http://www.facebook.com/bogleheads or something similar.
Yes, definitely worth grabbing that up before someone else does.
tnf
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:23 pm

Post by tnf »

exigent wrote:
pdxgreen wrote:To the admins: if you visit http://www.facebook.com/username, you should be able to set a username for the page so that it's reachable at http://www.facebook.com/bogleheads or something similar.
Yes, definitely worth grabbing that up before someone else does.
Great suggestion. It is now done, the URL is http://www.facebook.com/Bogleheads
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