article- How to Retire before Age 50

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VictoriaF
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Post by VictoriaF »

Beantown85 wrote:The article originally quoted by the OP was awful. I don't think you are going to find anyone to defend it here.
I checked out Jacob's blog referenced by MossySF, and it makes a lot of sense. See, for example, Jacob's FAQ, http://earlyretirementextreme.com/frequ ... tions.html

Victoria
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Post by Beantown85 »

Victoria,

I was referring to the Forbes article in the OP being awful, not the extreme early retirement blog.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Beantown85 wrote:Victoria,

I was referring to the Forbes article in the OP being awful, not the extreme early retirement blog.
You are right. I assumed that the Yahoo!Finance article was based on the blog and went straight to the blog.

Victoria
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Post by Wagnerjb »

VictoriaF wrote:I checked out Jacob's blog referenced by MossySF, and it makes a lot of sense. See, for example, Jacob's FAQ, http://earlyretirementextreme.com/frequ ... tions.html

Victoria
I looked at a few of the FAQ.

This guy pays $71 per month for health insurance. Don't ask me how he got that kind of plan....

He has no dental or vision coverage. If he has a problem, he gets it fixed in some developing country.

He lives in an RV

And the #1 way that this guy can do an extreme early retirement ---- his wife works full time! I rest my case. :D
Andy
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by FrugalInvestor »

LH wrote:I did not think it was that bad.

It merely present an option to consider.
I agree. I don't think the author is saying that you should live your life in a particular manner, only that if your top priority is retiring before 50 these are some things you might consider doing or not doing. Most of the suggestions seem very legitimate, although all of them would probably not be appropriate all of the time or for all people.

The one about your spouse having the same goal (and I would add spending/saving 'style') is huge in my opinion. If you are reinforcing one another's behaviors it makes reaching a goal much more doable and enjoyable.

The one method not stressed but that is probably the most important if you do not work for the government is to make a lot of money. Although this may not be in the cards for many, it also requires a great deal of sacrifice and effort.

The $3.5 million number must have (and hopefully was) taking into account inflation so the $100,000 needed in retirement would be in today's dollars.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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Post by MossySF »

I spearheaded my company's change from a regular insurance plan to a high-deductible + HSA plan so I've seen and analyzed all the numbers.

Basically, dental and vision plans are a ripoff. If the average person had any fiscal sense, it would be better to simply be paid the premiums as extra income. Think about it ... if you know everybody is going to have 2 teeth cleanings per year and it costs $100 each, do you think the insurance plan is going to say "oh, I think we'll charge $150 per year and eat the $50 loss"? No way, they'll charge $300 a year to have that $100 extra to pay for their salaries.

Unfortunately, we ended up keeping dental anyways because it was a small enough amount compared to million dollar company expenses to avoid the nuisance headache. Because what invariably happens is people will spend the saved premiums on something else and when they finally go to the dentist, grumble madly on the lack of benefits. (We've experienced this first hand with HSA accounts which we fund to the IRS max.) You might say health insurance is expensive because (1) the average joe needs hand-holding managing their personal finances and (2) the average joe is horrible at taking care of his health (overweight, smoking, drinking, etc).

BTW, my dentist here overseas has a place every where as decked out as any place in the U.S. I pay $11 for a teeth cleaning. My glasses were $17. Saving up for a medical vacation is a far better idea than paying for dental/vision insurance premiums.
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: Her choice to work does not affect his ability to be retired.
Sure it does. She pays half the rent & other bills.
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Post by hsv_climber »

Wagnerjb wrote:So far, nobody has been able to describe how the extreme early retirement will pay for medical insurance.
Lucky you. I can't even go so far since I can't pass the "sell kids on a black market if you want to retire early" proposition.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by Wagnerjb »

VictoriaF wrote:Retired people have the time to find good clinics and travel there to receive services.
Sure, but they need money to travel to Thailand. That's not in the budget when you are painfully frugal.
Jacob takes good care of his teeth and goes to local dentists when he is traveling.
Sure. But what do you do when your mouth is throbbing in the middle of the night and you need a root canal? Flying to Thailand isn't very convenient in that case.
dental services are available at a fraction of the cost of these services in the U.S. and at comparable quality.
Cost, maybe. Quality....no thanks. I lived in Malaysia and my secretary was a local Malaysian lady. Once she went in to the local dentist to have a tooth extracted and they took the wrong one out. My friend works in Indonsia, and his son broke a finger. The Indonesian doctor set it incorrectly, so my buddy had to take his son to Singapore to have it re-broken and set properly. I would - and did - let them prescribe penicillin for a child's ear infection....but if you had cancer do you really want them treating you? Not me.

Best wishes.
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: If Jacob were not married, he could have lived with a roommate. But based on the blog he could have easily afforded to live alone.
Victoria
That is not the point. Some of us actually provide for a family, not just for ourselves. What if she will be laid off from work? Will he be able to afford to pay the rent, her health / dental insurances, her food & other expenses (btw, blog says that she has a car) or will he just throw her out since she "will not be pulling her part anymore"?

BTW, speaking of dental insurance.... The guy plays hockey. Of course, it is a pretty safe activity to rely on a dental service 5,000 miles away.
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Post by hsv_climber »

Next time when I will think about young welfare recipients, I would not think about them as lazy bums, but as early retirees.
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Post by Beantown85 »

Wagnerjb wrote:
Cost, maybe. Quality....no thanks. I lived in Malaysia and my secretary was a local Malaysian lady. Once she went in to the local dentist to have a tooth extracted and they took the wrong one out. My friend works in Indonsia, and his son broke a finger. The Indonesian doctor set it incorrectly, so my buddy had to take his son to Singapore to have it re-broken and set properly. I would - and did - let them prescribe penicillin for a child's ear infection....but if you had cancer do you really want them treating you? Not me.

Best wishes.
My friend with full benefits from work, went to a US doctor who told her the knee injury she sustained was a strained meniscus. Many weeks later it was determined she had a torn ACL and torn meniscus. My aunt had the wrong tooth pulled by a US dentist, which was paid for (at least partially) by her dental coverage through work.
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Post by Wagnerjb »

Beantown85 wrote:
Wagnerjb wrote:
Cost, maybe. Quality....no thanks. I lived in Malaysia and my secretary was a local Malaysian lady. Once she went in to the local dentist to have a tooth extracted and they took the wrong one out. My friend works in Indonsia, and his son broke a finger. The Indonesian doctor set it incorrectly, so my buddy had to take his son to Singapore to have it re-broken and set properly. I would - and did - let them prescribe penicillin for a child's ear infection....but if you had cancer do you really want them treating you? Not me.

Best wishes.
My friend with full benefits from work, went to a US doctor who told her the knee injury she sustained was a strained meniscus. Many weeks later it was determined she had a torn ACL and torn meniscus. My aunt had the wrong tooth pulled by a US dentist, which was paid for (at least partially) by her dental coverage through work.
When I was on vacation in Thailand in 2001 I had a painful earache one night (after swimming in the pool and beach at the resort). That night my eardrum burst and in the morning I briefly fainted in the hotel room. The hotel called a local doctor to come and see me, and he did not diagnose the problem correctly. He gave me an antibiotic and left. After about a week of hearing problems, I went to the ear doctor when I returned to Germany (where I was living at the time). The German doctor was furious, and told me that my eardrum could have healed properly with immediate treatment. As it was, I had to have surgery to repair/close the eardrum and I will now live with tinnitis forever.

You cannot convince me that medical care in developing countries is anywhere close to the care we get in developed countries. I have lived in a developing country and have far too many personal experiences, as well as friends/colleagues who lived in developing countries with similar experiences. Will you have a misdiagnosis in the States? Sure, but they are probably rare. Will you get adequate treatment in a developing country? Most of the time, as long as the diagnosis isn't complicated and the procedure isn't complex.

Best wishes.
Andy
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Post by Beantown85 »

Wagnerjb wrote:You cannot convince me that medical care in developing countries is anywhere close to the care we get in developed countries. I have lived in a developing country and have far too many personal experiences, as well as friends/colleagues who lived in developing countries with similar experiences. Will you have a misdiagnosis in the States? Sure, but they are probably rare. Will you get adequate treatment in a developing country? Most of the time, as long as the diagnosis isn't complicated and the procedure isn't complex.

Best wishes.
I don't want to convince you of anything. I was merely pointing out that anecdotal evidence shouldn't be used to draw broad conclusions.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by Wagnerjb »

VictoriaF wrote:What is more important? To have perfect teeth or not to have to go to a repressive workplace? People have different answers and make their choices accordingly.

Victoria
Isn't finding another job a choice?
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: What is more important? To have perfect teeth or not to have to go to a repressive workplace? People have different answers and make their choices accordingly.
Victoria
Exaggeration?
The guy has PhD in Physics. Quick search on dice.com with "physics" returns 623 jobs.

But it does not matter what this guy does. It is his family & his choice. The broader question, which was asked by Wagnerjb, about how realistic early retirement really is without a fortune. And it seems like this example does not pass the giggle test.
There is probably no way to die from hunger in US anyway. So, Jason will never die from hunger. But as I pointed above, someone can live in a government subsided housing ( projects), receive Welfare and call it "early retirement" as well.
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Post by hsv_climber »

Two identical replies @ the same time...

Victoria, sorry, we are not out to get you :wink:
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: If I were in Jacob's situation I would try to find a satisfying job. In fact, I had experiences of unsatisfying jobs and found my way to better ones. And still when I read his blog, I could not help admiring his guts.
Victoria,

That is exactly what bothers me with his particular case. Here is a 35 year old guy who is smart (PhD in Physics), but uses the power of his brain to do things that can be done by your average Joe. Of course, that is not counting his blog & book.
I also don't like the dangerous "no kids" message throughout his blog. It reminds me of the movie Idiocracy : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ , which shows what would happen if smart guys (like Jason) will decide not to have children, while your average welfare recipient will have a bunch of them.
I actually do like his "reduce consumption to the minimum" message, but "switch from scientist to the lazy bum" & "no kids" messages bother me.
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Post by Balance »

hsv_climber wrote:Next time when I will think about young welfare recipients, I would not think about them as lazy bums, but as early retirees.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read this lol.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: hsv_climber,
How would you feel about an exceptionally beautiful woman not having children so that she could preserve her body? That would be in contrast to "your average comely women who will have a bunch of them." :lol:
Victoria
Did I say anything about the looks or are you are going to supply the chart showing that looks & wits are connected? :?:
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote: I was not quoting you, I was making an analogy. It was not about looks related to wits but about a potential waste of human capital in its different manifestations.
I am Ok with Paris Hilton human capital going to waste :roll:

Seriously, do you consider "looks" to be a human capital?
Human capital refers to the stock of competences, knowledge and personality attributes embodied in the ability to perform labor so as to produce economic value.
Are we planning to have a discussion on this subject:?:
Besides prostitution, modeling, and exotic dancing, there is not much I can think of where looks provide the ability to perform labor.
VictoriaF wrote: In the mean time, I have thought of another aspect of the story. Jacob (by the way, it is Jacob, not Jason) has probably retained his Danish citizenship. If he needed serious health care he and his wife could probably obtain it in Denmark at a low cost. (This is a speculation on my part. I read only a small part of Jacob's blog.)
Victoria
If he won't have any money, he can also apply for MEDICAID in US. Alternatively, in 2014, he will be eligible for significant Government subsidies to buy healthcare insurance.
Again, it is back to the point - should we view Jacob (sorry, Jacob, not Jason) as a early retiree, who did a wonderful job and can rightfully enjoy the fruits of his past work, or as a lazy bum who can game the system?
I have no doubts that he can game US or Danish healthcare system and obtain the benefits that he has not paid for.
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Post by Ron »

VictoriaF wrote:If he needed serious health care he and his wife could probably obtain it in Denmark at a low cost. (This is a speculation on my part. I read only a small part of Jacob's blog.)

Victoria
Just to reflect on health care from a "home country".

My wife/me were on Swiss/Germany/Austria tour years ago.

While in Munich (aka München) years ago, our Swiss tour guide fell and sprained her wrist.

While in much pain, she continued the tour but did not get treatment (a week later) until she returned to her "home country" of Switzerland.

Just to reflect upon accidents and how they can impact your actual treatment, in "real time".

I, for one would not want to depend on "options" for my personal medical needs. Of course, that's only me :roll: ...

- Ron
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Post by Beantown85 »

hsv_climber wrote:But it does not matter what this guy does. It is his family & his choice. The broader question, which was asked by Wagnerjb, about how realistic early retirement really is without a fortune. And it seems like this example does not pass the giggle test.
The article in the OP, and Wagnerjb's original question are referring to early retirement at 50. The example in that blog is something entirely different, and while it may not pass your giggle test, it certainly doesn't mean that retirement at 50 is unattainable. I think retirement at 50 is certainly a possibility for a segment of the population, no windfall required. It appears that somehow in this thread the retirement at 50 goal, and this extreme retirement example in his early 30s are being used interchangably. Quite a different set of circumstances.

Grossly oversimplified example:

A college graduate leaves school making 55k at 22 years old. They max their 401k and Roth IRA, at 16,500 and 5,000. They live on the rest.

Assumptions: 5% real return, salary keeps pace with inflation.

At 50: 401k is 987k. Roth is 299k. A 3% WR from that portfolio gives 38k a year, which is more than their current salary - retirement contributions.

*Please note: This is a back of the napkin calculation just trying to show that it is within the realm of possibility. I know there are thousands of variables not accounted for here, some that will hurt this plan, some that will help it.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by LH »

Beantown85 wrote:
LH wrote:I did not think it was that bad.

It merely present an option to consider.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a goal to retire early, or even to retire at 50. However I think the article gave the reader no actual information, no good advice, and was just all-around worthless.
well. all around worthless is pretty hard core.

I think a lot of people, have a spouse, kids, personal lifestyle and such they have to support.

On top of that, they throw a nice car they rebuy say every 5 years, a nice house that makes them house poor. Iphones with maybe 1k a year stream to pay for the wireless... etc.

I know, I really did not start to examine this until maybe 5 years ago, and not really hard core until 2-3 years ago......

People just do not ask the question. They just live the consumption life. Or they just live a conservative life, but do not really examine it. Just work and spend, without really thinking about whats important to them. Acquiring things which may or may not be worth it to them, but hey, its whats everyone else is doing, its whats expected.

Look, I have read the average person in the world lives on 2 dollars a day people.....................

Thats reality. Now I know its not in US, etc. etc.

Now, what this guy is talking about doing, is "impossible" for the average person, well, no it is not.

Its value lies not in answers, it lies in the question, which a lot of people never even seriously consider.

To me, it could be a seque into something akin to "your money or your life" type of thing (a book title).

The key is not that you actually do this, but that you should consider it, and actually examine what you are doing with your time. Time=Money=Life to some extent for most. You consume your time, to make money, to live your life, and you will die.

Do you really need, say, a 10k friggin kitchen counter top???????? A simple surface to prepare food on? Do you need a new car every 2-5 years? Whats it worth in your time?

I just think, to me, that article touches on those things, whereas some, its just discounted, oh impossible! Nope. Its not. Its a choice, one should make by reasoning, and not just random treadmill default. 1/4 of homeowners underwater, I wonder how many bought granite counter tops, nice stoves, kitchen redos? I wonder how many divorces caused by monetary problems?

When I sit at work, and when I spend money. The two are linked in my mind. An iphone stream of payments to apple = me working for that service for apple essentially. The money is just a mechanism of transfer.

The most important things are family, friends, food, shelter, health.

How much of your life is granite counter tops, what does that get you, and what does that cost you? To discount this stuff is easy, to really consider it, is tough.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by Wagnerjb »

VictoriaF wrote:The other way is continuous. Every potential expense and saving can be evaluated through the prism of extra months of work. Are the granite counter tops worth the extra 2 months in the work place?

If the conscious continuous evaluation approach becomes a habit, and one ends up retiring at the age of 52 years 3 months and 4 days, the OP article will deem to be useful.

Victoria
Surely you can figure out the continuous evaluation approach with a little bit of common sense and math. Articles such as the one referenced by the OP are far too extreme to be helpful. IMO, they are more destructive than helpful. They may serve to help an author sell books (and thus retire early....), but they aren't helpful to normal people like us.

Best wishes.
Andy
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Post by hsv_climber »

VictoriaF wrote:age of 50 (OP) with Jason's extreme retirement (referenced by MossySF).
Could not resist:
VictoriaF wrote: Jacob (by the way, it is Jacob, not Jason)
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Post by hsv_climber »

LH wrote: The most important things are family, friends, food, shelter, health.
And article does not cover it at all. The only point of the article is that if you'd live a miserable life then you can have a early miserable retirement.

There are many things to spend money on that I'd consider more important than buying a kitchen counter and are definitely worth working extra hrs. or years for.
These things would be: college education for kids, vacations with the goal to see and enjoy different places (and not with the goal to have "servants", room service, and spend money), museums, art performances, learn new things, etc.
Regarding material things.... Kitchen counter might not be that important, but we just got a new dishwasher 4-5 months ago and it is saving my wife time on washing dishes. It has also improved her life. Sure, we've spend ~$1,000 on it, but it allowed my wife to spend more time with kids & me in the evenings rather than washing dishes. The point is that $$ can help to have a happier family even if they are used to buy material things.

But the original article does not address any of these issues.
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Post by VictoriaF »

Victoria
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Post by LH »

hsv_climber wrote:
LH wrote: The most important things are family, friends, food, shelter, health.
And article does not cover it at all. The only point of the article is that if you'd live a miserable life then you can have a early miserable retirement.

There are many things to spend money on that I'd consider more important than buying a kitchen counter and are definitely worth working extra hrs. or years for.
These things would be: college education for kids, vacations with the goal to see and enjoy different places (and not with the goal to have "servants", room service, and spend money), museums, art performances, learn new things, etc.
Regarding material things.... Kitchen counter might not be that important, but we just got a new dishwasher 4-5 months ago and it is saving my wife time on washing dishes. It has also improved her life. Sure, we've spend ~$1,000 on it, but it allowed my wife to spend more time with kids & me in the evenings rather than washing dishes. The point is that $$ can help to have a happier family even if they are used to buy material things.

But the original article does not address any of these issues.
Well. The point simply is that I believe the statement

"I can't retire"

Becomes false at some point for a lot of people, long before one actually realizes it. Yeah, there are choices to make. But the thing is, one makes them by default usually, saying "I cant" retire, it does not apply to me. One gets on a treadmill, making consumption "choices" without much introspection.

A good exercise is saying, I can retire, and see what that results in, if anything. It may not. But then if you want to retire, then consuming becomes a choice between freedom and consumption.

If you look at a new TV, and say, I have to work 10 days to buy it, thats not what people usually do I would say, then realize, well thats 10 more days I have to work, before I could retire. Is the TV worth it.

Now, the answer may be yes, it may be no. there is no right answer. But people do not, via common sense, look at it that way usually I would strongly posit.

Most people, I believe, do not get past the point of saying I cannot retire. Regardless of whether you live on 2 dollars a day in third world, if you life in korea on whatever a day, or if you live in US on whatever wage scale you choose...... We all tend to make ourselves house poor, if we can afford public, well maybe we jump up to private college for the kids. If we can afford a new pinto every 4 years, we get that, instead of 10 years. If we can afford lexus, well get that instead of a maxima..... whatever. Buy a boat. work X amount of shifts for it. Not many people think like that.

Ask youself, how many shifts did I have to work to pay for my car????? Does an answer pop into your mind?..........

The acceptance that it IS possible to retire early, is a first step towards thinking like that. I am not there per se yet.

And thinking like that, does not mean that you live a crappy life. It simply means you make a more informed choice.

So yeah, the article is not a world beater perhaps : )

But it could have heuristic value if it gets people thinking. Athenians thought of working for someone else as slavery. Which they solved by having slaves of course. But it is instructive to think like that. If one has to work, especially if you do not enjoy work, then one is somewhat being a slave to ones possessions. I would posit, the freedom to not have to work, is very nice to possess. I possess the freedom now, that my losing my job, would not mean disaster. Thats very nice. In fact, the more security I have, on some levels, the more I enjoy my job.

anyway, have a nice day,

LH
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Post by hsv_climber »

LH wrote:Well. The point simply is that I believe the statement

"I can't retire"

Becomes false at some point for a lot of people, long before one actually realizes it. Yeah, there are choices to make. But the thing is, one makes them by default usually, saying "I cant" retire, it does not apply to me. One gets on a treadmill, making consumption "choices" without much introspection.

A good exercise is saying, I can retire, and see what that results in, if anything. It may not. But then if you want to retire, then consuming becomes a choice between freedom and consumption.

If you look at a new TV, and say, I have to work 10 days to buy it, thats not what people usually do I would say, then realize, well thats 10 more days I have to work, before I could retire. Is the TV worth it.

Now, the answer may be yes, it may be no. there is no right answer. But people do not, via common sense, look at it that way usually I would strongly posit.

Most people, I believe, do not get past the point of saying I cannot retire. Regardless of whether you live on 2 dollars a day in third world, if you life in korea on whatever a day, or if you live in US on whatever wage scale you choose...... We all tend to make ourselves house poor, if we can afford public, well maybe we jump up to private college for the kids. If we can afford a new pinto every 4 years, we get that, instead of 10 years. If we can afford lexus, well get that instead of a maxima..... whatever. Buy a boat. work X amount of shifts for it. Not many people think like that.

Ask youself, how many shifts did I have to work to pay for my car????? Does an answer pop into your mind?..........

The acceptance that it IS possible to retire early, is a first step towards thinking like that. I am not there per se yet.

And thinking like that, does not mean that you live a crappy life. It simply means you make a more informed choice.

So yeah, the article is not a world beater perhaps, but it could have heuristic value if it gets people thinking.
Interesting post.
But in my case everything is much more simple - I just need to ask my wife. She is more frugal than me :wink:
So, instead of thinking "I need to work 10 more hrs. for this", I can just think "would my wife approves this purchase?" 8)

Speaking of the dishwasher above. I wanted to get one, since she was spending too much time on dishes. I found the model that I've liked and then it took me some time to convince her that she/we needed one.
I think it is always important to get a second opinion from someone who is not emotionally attached to the "new thing", "best vacation", etc. It is probably more important than having "this thing will cost me 10 days of working life". It has no association for me.

Also, I currently don't have any desire at all to retire. I am more afraid of unemployment than to even think about retirement. That is why I'd like to get financial independence. To me work is more than just money, so thinking "I need to work 10 more days" would not help me in any way. It would be like "Great!!!! I can work 10 more days".
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Post by hsv_climber »

LH wrote: Ask youself, how many shifts did I have to work to pay for my car????? Does an answer pop into your mind?..........
For both cars - ~31 weeks.

But 1 car is 5 years old & the other one 10. I expect both to last ~15 years.
So, ~2 weeks / year.
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Post by jh »

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Last edited by jh on Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by livesoft »

I have not found that having children prevents one from retiring early. I have found that not having a good income does prevent one from retiring early.

I violate several of the "tips" in article cited in the OP. Maybe Forbes should get authors with practical experience in the matter to write for them. OTOH, why would they want to go back to work for Forbes?
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Post by hsv_climber »

livesoft wrote:I have not found that having children prevents one from retiring early. I have found that not having a good income does prevent one from retiring early.
Having children would prevent someone from doing what Jacob, who writes this blog ( http://earlyretirementextreme.com/frequ ... tions.html ) is doing, which has a different definition of the word "early" than you do.
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Post by hsv_climber »

jh wrote: LOL, isn't your scenario already the norm?

My anecdotal evidence shows me that my peers in computer science and my engineering friends from college do not have many kids. Most are DINKs.
Not yet in Alabama. People of all educational backgrounds still make kids in the South. :roll:
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Post by livesoft »

Jacob is underemployed by his choice. He could have had it so much easier if he put his PhD in physics to good use. :)
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Post by scrabbler1 »

hsv_climber wrote: I also don't like the dangerous "no kids" message throughout his blog. It reminds me of the movie Idiocracy : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ , which shows what would happen if smart guys (like Jason) will decide not to have children, while your average welfare recipient will have a bunch of them.
I actually do like his "reduce consumption to the minimum" message, but "switch from scientist to the lazy bum" & "no kids" messages bother me.
I find your use of the word "dangerous" to describe a perfectly legal and legitimate (and wise IMHO) lifestyle choice rather disturbing.

I have seen the movie "Idiocracy" and it is just that - a movie - not some "this is what is going to happen with absolute certainty" documentary.

His lifestyle choice to be childfree should be praised, not criticized. I am also childfree and could not have retired 2 years ago at age 45 had I had kids. It is not easy to make a lifestyle choice which puts you into a minority group which is treated in an inferior manner by society in general and government, too. His (and mine) decision hurts nobody and is hardly "dangerous" as you put it.
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Post by market timer »

scrabbler1 wrote:His (and mine) decision hurts nobody and is hardly "dangerous" as you put it.
It's dangerous to the US debt ponzi -- both the decision to retire early and not procreate.
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Post by hsv_climber »

market timer wrote:
scrabbler1 wrote:His (and mine) decision hurts nobody and is hardly "dangerous" as you put it.
It's dangerous to the US debt ponzi -- both the decision to retire early and not procreate.
Not just US. You can read about demographic crisis in Japan, Europe, Russia, etc.

This is a general problem in the world - population growth (and all the over-population talks) comes from under-developed countries and low-income / low education levels in developed countries.
scrabbler1 wrote: His lifestyle choice to be childfree should be praised, not criticized. I am also childfree and could not have retired 2 years ago at age 45 had I had kids.
So, we should praise you because you did not have kids and were able to retire early because of that, right? What else should we praise you for?
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Post by scrabbler1 »

hsv_climber wrote:
scrabbler1 wrote: His lifestyle choice to be childfree should be praised, not criticized. I am also childfree and could not have retired 2 years ago at age 45 had I had kids.
So, we should praise you because you did not have kids and were able to retire early because of that, right? What else should we praise you for?
Yes, you should praise me. You should also praise me for using some of my added free time to do volunteer work with several area schools.

Not that I am some gung-ho environmentalist, but you should praise me for being a lesser burden on our natural resources because I did not procreate.

Thank you for asking. :)
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Post by FreqFlyer »

Wagnerjb wrote: I threw out the medical care test as an acid test to determine if this "extreme early retirement" meant that people would need to make sacrifices that they aren't envisioning. Personally, I think the "painfully frugal" lifestyle as described in the article means no medical insurance. So far, nobody has been able to describe how the extreme early retirement will pay for medical insurance.

The answer may be "go to Mexico", but it is important for the forum readers to fully understand what it actually means to have an extreme early retirement.

Best wishes.
The strategy would be to get a high deductible plan with an HSA. You fund the HSA heavily and enjoy the tax savings while paying for routine care out of pocket. You're covered essentially only for emergencies.

Health insurance is really just a pre purchase (financing) of health care. What you pay must be less or equal to your consumption of health services (for most people).

If you happen to be unlucky or unhealthy (chronic conditions) then retirement is not in your cards. Being a small business owner is probably not in your cards either as the US health insurance system is built around employer-provided coverage.
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