Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

Ok so I am finally at the location and have grown wary of the super large (sq. ft. home). Another desirable home just hit the market which is only 4000sq. ft and is priced around 750k (150k less). However, this one has a in-ground pool probably built 15-20 years back. I know (following other Boglehead threads) that pool maintenance is significant cost of time and effort (3k average perhaps a year even if DIY most things).Being in the Northeast, it will only get used about 3-4 months of the year. Filling it in may cost 20-25k. So how do these two compare? If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
YeWill
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by YeWill »

steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:02 am If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
Neither.

Keep looking. But when you see one that fits your requirements, submit a strong winning offer.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by quantAndHold »

I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
AlohaBill
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by AlohaBill »

You should really talk to KlangFool. He has very interesting opinions about McMansions. After our four sons left our 1527 sq. ft.palace , it has become a fairly spacious place. I would think that 6000 sq. ft. Would become cavernous. Hide n seek would be exciting though. :beer
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

I think suburbia is full of McMansions especially if it is affordable. I am seeing that nicely updated homes also tend to be larger. Only other option for a nicely updated home (updated kitchen, rooms) is a condo or townhome which is not something I look forward to with a family of 4. I think those who have moved recently and have kids will probably have seen this trend. I can understand those who have stayed in that same home for a long time will get used to even a small space and also will have developed an attachment. Moving from a nicely updated home in the midwest to the northeast, I am willing to pay more, but going to something not so updated is difficult. And if updated = large size, then that is what I am running into.
YeWill
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by YeWill »

steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 2:45 pm I think suburbia is full of McMansions especially if it is affordable. I am seeing that nicely updated homes also tend to be larger. Only other option for a nicely updated home (updated kitchen, rooms) is a condo or townhome which is not something I look forward to with a family of 4. I think those who have moved recently and have kids will probably have seen this trend. I can understand those who have stayed in that same home for a long time will get used to even a small space and also will have developed an attachment. Moving from a nicely updated home in the midwest to the northeast, I am willing to pay more, but going to something not so updated is difficult. And if updated = large size, then that is what I am running into.
I think 3k to 4k, inclusive of finish basement if it has one, is plenty. These tend to have 4 or 5 bedrooms, 2.5 or 3.5 bathrooms, with or without additional dedicated office space, 3 car garage and nice flat yard.

Anything more or less, if you are in the suburbs with kids, is uncomfortable. (That is us. Other people may make different choices.)
dxwg2020
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by dxwg2020 »

steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:02 am Ok so I am finally at the location and have grown wary of the super large (sq. ft. home). Another desirable home just hit the market which is only 4000sq. ft and is priced around 750k (150k less). However, this one has a in-ground pool probably built 15-20 years back. I know (following other Boglehead threads) that pool maintenance is significant cost of time and effort (3k average perhaps a year even if DIY most things).Being in the Northeast, it will only get used about 3-4 months of the year. Filling it in may cost 20-25k. So how do these two compare? If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
OP - here are are our experiences in the past few years. My family moved from the Midwest to the Northeast in early 2020. We rented a 4000 sq ft house and are still renting it (well, we cannot afford to buy the house we are renting now, but you should have better luck and timing than ours.)

We learned of two things we didn't realize before:
1. Once kids started school, it's more difficult to move again to even a different school attendance zone (not just a different school district!). In retrospect, setting down once and at all would be a better idea for us.
2. Types of houses: this was a surprising discovery to us. In the area I live now, most houses in different towns appear to be built in different era. For example, houses in some towns were mostly built in the 1960s and 1970s, in modest sizes. Some other towns, however, are full of Center Hall Colonials built in late 1990s and early 2000s, while nearly every one of them is 3000+ sq ft. We made the mistake of trying to buy a house similar to what we lived in the Midwest but in a specific Northeast town, only to realize that it doesn't exist here.

I think 750K for this 4000 sq ft house with a pool is fine. A lot of people here have pools and seem to maintain them OK. (Here is another surprising finding to us: yard/lawn/housing labor cost in the Northeast is generally cheaper than that in the Midwest!)
thedaybeforetoday
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by thedaybeforetoday »

steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:02 am Ok so I am finally at the location and have grown wary of the super large (sq. ft. home). Another desirable home just hit the market which is only 4000sq. ft and is priced around 750k (150k less). However, this one has a in-ground pool probably built 15-20 years back. I know (following other Boglehead threads) that pool maintenance is significant cost of time and effort (3k average perhaps a year even if DIY most things).Being in the Northeast, it will only get used about 3-4 months of the year. Filling it in may cost 20-25k. So how do these two compare? If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
Sounds like you like the house, with the exception being that it has a pool and costs 25k to fill in the pool.

So you could make this THE house for $775k then right (assuming it needs nothing else)?

$193/sq. foot ($775k/4,000) is pretty reasonable in northeastern suburbs.
"When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them." R. Dangerfield
EddyB
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by EddyB »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
That’s the house I’d always pick. It rarely exists!
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

thedaybeforetoday wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:36 am
steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:02 am Ok so I am finally at the location and have grown wary of the super large (sq. ft. home). Another desirable home just hit the market which is only 4000sq. ft and is priced around 750k (150k less). However, this one has a in-ground pool probably built 15-20 years back. I know (following other Boglehead threads) that pool maintenance is significant cost of time and effort (3k average perhaps a year even if DIY most things).Being in the Northeast, it will only get used about 3-4 months of the year. Filling it in may cost 20-25k. So how do these two compare? If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
Sounds like you like the house, with the exception being that it has a pool and costs 25k to fill in the pool.

So you could make this THE house for $775k then right (assuming it needs nothing else)?

$193/sq. foot ($775k/4,000) is pretty reasonable in northeastern suburbs.
Thanks that is a good idea. May try it.
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by stoptothink »

EddyB wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 1:15 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
That’s the house I’d always pick. It rarely exists!
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

stoptothink wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:46 pm
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
Yes true. Only small ones I could find that are nice are patio homes or twinhomes association dues.
pizzy
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by pizzy »

steadyhand wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:46 pm
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
Yes true. Only small ones I could find that are nice are patio homes or twinhomes association dues.
It’s the “that are nice” qualifier that is the main barrier.

If you want a smaller home like those built 70’s and 80’s… you need to be willing to purchase a home that will need lots of updating.

And realize you’ll be living in a neighborhood that has a wide range of upkeep/quality.
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stoptothink
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by stoptothink »

pizzy wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:27 pm
steadyhand wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:46 pm
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
Yes true. Only small ones I could find that are nice are patio homes or twinhomes association dues.
It’s the “that are nice” qualifier that is the main barrier.

If you want a smaller home like those built 70’s and 80’s… you need to be willing to purchase a home that will need lots of updating.

And realize you’ll be living in a neighborhood that has a wide range of upkeep/quality.
We live in the suburbs of a major metro area and want to stay in the area (~15 miles in every direction from our current home). There were virtually no homes in this area as of 1980. There were hardly any as of 2000. We have the choice of thousands and thousands and thousands of condos or a 3500sq. ft home SFH (mostly much larger than that) - there is no in-between because builders don't build them now. If we were willing to move into the heart of the city we'd have options, but I suspect we'll end up in something that is bigger than we want because location is priority #1.
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by pizzy »

stoptothink wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:44 am
pizzy wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:27 pm
steadyhand wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:46 pm
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
Yes true. Only small ones I could find that are nice are patio homes or twinhomes association dues.
It’s the “that are nice” qualifier that is the main barrier.

If you want a smaller home like those built 70’s and 80’s… you need to be willing to purchase a home that will need lots of updating.

And realize you’ll be living in a neighborhood that has a wide range of upkeep/quality.
We live in the suburbs of a major metro area and want to stay in the area (~15 miles in every direction from our current home). There were virtually no homes in this area as of 1980. There were hardly any as of 2000. We have the choice of thousands and thousands and thousands of condos or a 3500sq. ft home SFH (mostly much larger than that) - there is no in-between because builders don't build them now. If we were willing to move into the heart of the city we'd have options, but I suspect we'll end up in something that is bigger than we want because location is priority #1.
Texas?
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Valuethinker
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Valuethinker »

steadyhand wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:08 pm
thedaybeforetoday wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:36 am
steadyhand wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:02 am Ok so I am finally at the location and have grown wary of the super large (sq. ft. home). Another desirable home just hit the market which is only 4000sq. ft and is priced around 750k (150k less). However, this one has a in-ground pool probably built 15-20 years back. I know (following other Boglehead threads) that pool maintenance is significant cost of time and effort (3k average perhaps a year even if DIY most things).Being in the Northeast, it will only get used about 3-4 months of the year. Filling it in may cost 20-25k. So how do these two compare? If you had to pick one, which one might make more sense. Of course neither is an answer too.
Sounds like you like the house, with the exception being that it has a pool and costs 25k to fill in the pool.

So you could make this THE house for $775k then right (assuming it needs nothing else)?

$193/sq. foot ($775k/4,000) is pretty reasonable in northeastern suburbs.
Thanks that is a good idea. May try it.
If you like this house, and its good for schools & commute, then it's probably a no-brainer?

You buy, you fill in the pool. Happens all the time - swimming pools are one of the few home "improvements" that actually costs value (depending on location & climate). Most improvements just don't give you full return on the money eg new kitchens.

Effectively $25k is the cost of an "upgrade" to a home. And a simple redecoration of a home that big can cost you that sort of money (if it is more than a lick of paint).

The main things are the schools & the commute. NE USA (perhaps other places too) it really does matter where you live - some local highway might have known traffic issues, etc. Suburb and work can look close on a map but be a total nightmare. Schools - you know.
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by stoptothink »

pizzy wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:51 am
stoptothink wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:44 am
pizzy wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:27 pm
steadyhand wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:46 pm
It's incredible how difficult it is to find a "normal" sized SFH homes these days. We're regularly looking as we intend to upgrade from our townhome in the next few years (are financially prepared to do it tomorrow) and it is next to impossible to find a SFH home <3k sq. ft. Our 1480 sq. ft townhome is plenty of space for our family of 4, we ideally would want ~2000 (we want a small dedicated TV/theatre room and maybe another spare bedroom) and it simply does not exist.
Yes true. Only small ones I could find that are nice are patio homes or twinhomes association dues.
It’s the “that are nice” qualifier that is the main barrier.

If you want a smaller home like those built 70’s and 80’s… you need to be willing to purchase a home that will need lots of updating.

And realize you’ll be living in a neighborhood that has a wide range of upkeep/quality.
We live in the suburbs of a major metro area and want to stay in the area (~15 miles in every direction from our current home). There were virtually no homes in this area as of 1980. There were hardly any as of 2000. We have the choice of thousands and thousands and thousands of condos or a 3500sq. ft home SFH (mostly much larger than that) - there is no in-between because builders don't build them now. If we were willing to move into the heart of the city we'd have options, but I suspect we'll end up in something that is bigger than we want because location is priority #1.
Texas?
SLC, Utah suburbs
Jags4186
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Jags4186 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Nowizard
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Nowizard »

Opinions are, of course, being given regarding ideal house size based on poster preferences as well as financial capability. It appears you can afford the home you have mentioned and have found one you like. If your history is one of either making good decisions or making the best you can at the time accompanied by accepting the consequences, then it is your choice, one made more on lifestyle and personal considerations after having answered the financial question. This site is wonderful and of immense help with finances but with less of a focus on personal considerations and integration of finances with differing lifestyles of, for example, Buffett versus Bezos.

Tim
Topic Author
steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

I have left the location today. The home we liked with the pool will hit the market later this week (realtor got us in early as we were leaving town). My realtor felt it was a bit overpriced given comps and has suggested we wait a bit. She thinks the sellers won’t budge much the first week or two. Since we don’t want pay top dollar because of the pool, she suggests waiting a bit and offering a much lower price. That way if we get the home, fewer regrets. Gives us some time to see what else hits the market also. If this home is still the one we like in 2 weeks we may start making offers. Willing to let it go for now.
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by EddyB »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Topic Author
steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by steadyhand »

This market has anomalies. That 6000sq ft was also near a high voltage line. School district is also not the best. We are ok with it because of a charter school option.
Jags4186
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Jags4186 »

EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:13 am
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Define a market. Within 8 miles and in the same county of that 3.1 million home are 6000+ sqft mansions that sell for under $1mm.
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by EddyB »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:42 am
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:13 am
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Define a market. Within 8 miles and in the same county of that 3.1 million home are 6000+ sqft mansions that sell for under $1mm.
Amazing. Where is that? Or, what’s the commute time like? Same school district?
Jags4186
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Jags4186 »

EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:09 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:42 am
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:13 am
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:47 am I would pick the nicely laid out 2500 sqft one in a walkable neighborhood. I don’t see what the attraction of these gigantic houses is.
Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Define a market. Within 8 miles and in the same county of that 3.1 million home are 6000+ sqft mansions that sell for under $1mm.
Amazing. Where is that? Or, what’s the commute time like? Same school district?
Compare this

Image

To this

Image
pizzy
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by pizzy »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:18 pm
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:09 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:42 am
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:13 am
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am

Yea except the nicely laid out 2500sqft home in the walkable neighborhood recently listed for $2.2 million and sold for $3.1.
Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Define a market. Within 8 miles and in the same county of that 3.1 million home are 6000+ sqft mansions that sell for under $1mm.
Amazing. Where is that? Or, what’s the commute time like? Same school district?
Compare this

Image

To this

Image
These homes are on different planets.
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Charles Joseph
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Charles Joseph »

If you are asking the question, the answer is probably "no."
"The big money is not in the buying and selling, but in the waiting." - Charles Munger
EnjoyIt
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by EnjoyIt »

steadyhand wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 10:12 pm If we have to do some local living, I may have to go and live there for a year in a rental, away from my family. That has its own downsides obviously. I was hoping between a week staying in the general area, and inputs from a local realtor, this may work. But I respect the short term rental idea.
I have worked with enough people over the years who have moved from out of town and bought a house immediately. A good percentage of them regret it. Some find out that they hate the area, others find out they are not a good fit for the job.

I also would not trust your real estate agent to be 100% honest. Their goal is to sell a house as soon as possible. They will tell you whatever it takes so that you buy quickly.

Unless you are very familiar with an area and the the new job, it is unwise to buy immediately. Be patient, rent, learn the neighborhoods, and then make an educated decision on where to buy.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Jags4186
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this large home?

Post by Jags4186 »

pizzy wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:50 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:18 pm
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:09 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:42 am
EddyB wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:13 am

Sure, in some markets, but in the same markets where a likable 6,000 s.f. home sells for less than a million dollars? I haven’t come across such a market.
Define a market. Within 8 miles and in the same county of that 3.1 million home are 6000+ sqft mansions that sell for under $1mm.
Amazing. Where is that? Or, what’s the commute time like? Same school district?
Compare this

Image

To this

Image
These homes are on different planets.
Agreed :wink:
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

Ok as the story continues, another home hit the market. We haven't pulled the trigger yet. This one has no swimming pool, is only 3200 sq. ft in size, charming and slightly older (but no obvious fixing up needed) and is in a perfect walkable neighborhood close to work and dining etc. We like everything about this compared to the other two houses. Taxes are lower as well (only 8k/year). However for all these positive things, the listing price is $950k. Based on what I shared before (300k+ income), 150k downpayment available in cash right now, additional 300k+ equity in existing home, can we make this work? I think it will be a 450-500k eventual mortgage once our home sells. Given recent sals in this neighborhood, it is also possible that there may be bidding war and it sells over asking. I am not sure how much more I can or should stretch above 950k if I have to.
I have changed post title to "can we afford this home" from "can we afford this large home".
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Watty
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by Watty »

I am just getting caught up with this thread and $25K sounds very low to fill in the pool on the other house. I would be skeptical about that especially since once the pool is filled in you will also need to landscape and maybe do things like put in a patio or deck. With some houses it is difficult or impossible to get heavy equipment like a dump truck and backhoe into a back yard which can increase the cost dramatically.
steadyhand wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:57 pm Ok as the story continues, another home hit the market. We haven't pulled the trigger yet. This one has no swimming pool, is only 3200 sq. ft in size, charming and slightly older (but no obvious fixing up needed) and is in a perfect walkable neighborhood close to work and dining etc. We like everything about this compared to the other two houses. Taxes are lower as well (only 8k/year). However for all these positive things, the listing price is $950k. Based on what I shared before (300k+ income), 150k downpayment available in cash right now, additional 300k+ equity in existing home, can we make this work? I think it will be a 450-500k eventual mortgage once our home sells. Given recent sals in this neighborhood, it is also possible that there may be bidding war and it sells over asking. I am not sure how much more I can or should stretch above 950k if I have to.
I have changed post title to "can we afford this home" from "can we afford this large home".
You can afford it but be prepared to show a 20% down payment or your offer will look weak

I would assume that you are already pre-approved for a mortgage and not just pre-qualified. If not get started on that.

I don't have a clue what a fair price would be in your market but you can fix most things about a house except for the location and neighborhood and those sound good for that house.

How are the schools for that house?
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

Schools are ok; not a suburban small school district with high ratings, but a diverse mix and large schools. Our kids will be fine, but others may prefer elsewhere. A good university nearby should always keep the area vibrant.
HereToLearn
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by HereToLearn »

steadyhand wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:00 pm Schools are ok; not a suburban small school district with high ratings, but a diverse mix and large schools. Our kids will be fine, but others may prefer elsewhere. A good university nearby should always keep the area vibrant.
I would hesitate to pay to the top of your range if the schools are not great. If you need to relocate again, will you be able to sell easily in this 'OK' school district? I am seeing very little on the market locally and most houses are going for over asking because of the very limited inventory. I imagine the same is true in PA.

I grew up in the NE and raised my family in the NE so am a big believer in the connection between property values and school districts. Small-ish towns, school district run and funded by local taxes only, excellent education, and buyers pay for the school district. I don't know PA at all so do not know if it property values are as tied to schools as they are in NY, NJ, CT & MA.

Regarding this latest house, have you been able to research traffic flow patterns in the immediate area? Such as--will you hear highway or train noise at night? Are you along a truck cut-through route? Will you be bothered by lights on HS field during night games?

Why are taxes lower in this town? Are median property values higher than the first one you looked at, or is there more of a commercial base in this new town? Are there town amenities? Park, club, etc.

You can pull the school profile for the district you are considering to see what the school offers and how it compares to other towns you are considering. If you cannot find it by googling, the HS guidance office should be able to send it to you.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

I asked the same question about why property taxes are lower. I was told assessed value is based on land value and what is on it in terms of materials etc. and not as much on market value of the entire home. Does this make sense? I don’t know if this is PA specific. This property is older, has just less than 0.2 acre lot, just above 3k sq. ft and no luxury improvements like a pool. Others had a lot more sq. ft, and luxury type amenties.

This property is in a quiet neighborhood with no noises as such except some rush hour traffic cutting through to avoid jams on main arteries. There is vibrant dining scene about a mile away that keeps values high.

I feel this may be the most bogleheadish of properties given that after the initial home price is absorbed, ongoing costs are quite low as it has a small yard, no sprinkler systems needed to water, not much to landscape. There are parks nearby if I want green spaces. Property values here are stable or growing because of older folk wanting to be in a walkable neighborhood and restaurants etc.
HereToLearn
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by HereToLearn »

steadyhand wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:01 pm I asked the same question about why property taxes are lower. I was told assessed value is based on land value and what is on it in terms of materials etc. and not as much on market value of the entire home. Does this make sense? I don’t know if this is PA specific. This property is older, has just less than 0.2 acre lot, just above 3k sq. ft and no luxury improvements like a pool. Others had a lot more sq. ft, and luxury type amenties.

This property is in a quiet neighborhood with no noises as such except some rush hour traffic cutting through to avoid jams on main arteries. There is vibrant dining scene about a mile away that keeps values high.

I feel this may be the most bogleheadish of properties given that after the initial home price is absorbed, ongoing costs are quite low as it has a small yard, no sprinkler systems needed to water, not much to landscape. There are parks nearby if I want green spaces. Property values here are stable or growing because of older folk wanting to be in a walkable neighborhood and restaurants etc.
That all sounds great. I have been seeing significant interest in walkability, with very expensive in-town apartments (above the stores and restaurants--mixed-use development) targeting empty-nesters.

Your explanation of the tax assessment makes sense. My property taxes are based on the land and the structure, so if this house is only on a fifth while other houses in town are on a half acre, the lower assessment is logical.

Are your neighbors also on a fifth of an acre? Will you be comfortable living that close to neighbors?

If you have time to do so when you are there visiting, park outside the house at night to listen for noise (or quiet!).

Best of luck in securing your new home.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

Most lots are same size or upto 0.33 acre. Acreage is at a premium in that area.

I did notice that utility costs are higher in the northeast and I perhaps have to budget an average of 600 per month perhaps due high heating costs in colder months. This home is heated through natural gas furnaces.
Clairvoyant
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by Clairvoyant »

@steadyhand Is this Pennsylvania? I saw a reference to PA. My adult daughter and her husband bought a house in the Philadelphia suburbs last year, and there were stunning differences in property taxes based on township. The homes with the higher property taxes (Drexel Hill) did not have better schools.

Also, on the subject of whether to rent first, I’d like to add a comment. We were a military family and bought 3x over the years. Each time, we bought based on a very short visit of 3 days. Each time it worked out fine. The first two houses were owned for only 3 years before the next move. There were no losses.

We made sure to buy where re-sale would be fairly easy (good demand). In each case we bought at about the median price for the zip code. I hope this helps.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

Clairvoyant wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:07 am @steadyhand Is this Pennsylvania? I saw a reference to PA. My adult daughter and her husband bought a house in the Philadelphia suburbs last year, and there were stunning differences in property taxes based on township. The homes with the higher property taxes (Drexel Hill) did not have better schools.

Also, on the subject of whether to rent first, I’d like to add a comment. We were a military family and bought 3x over the years. Each time, we bought based on a very short visit of 3 days. Each time it worked out fine. The first two houses were owned for only 3 years before the next move. There were no losses.

We made sure to buy where re-sale would be fairly easy (good demand). In each case we bought at about the median price for the zip code. I hope this helps.
Yes this is in PA.
KRP
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by KRP »

steadyhand wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 9:44 pm Due to a new job, my family of 4 is getting ready to move from the midwest to the northeast. Our current home should be worth about 500k with about 300k equity. I have some 150k in a money market fund to pay a down payment in case we buy first and then put the current home on sale afterwards (to make it more appealing to sellers). We are in our 40s and both have stable jobs and make about 300k in total per year. We have built up around 1M in retirement assets and have well funded 529 and HSAs. I also have about 200k in taxable accounts, some of which I am happy to sell to increase downpayment.

We really like a 900k house in the new location. Can we afford it? The numbers may seem to work, but I am a bit concerned that it is a 6000sq ft. home compared to the 4000 sq. ft. home we have currently. Property taxes will be about $17k per year and insurance around $4k. Wondering if utility bills will go up significantly as well. Our kids are in middle school and are highly likely to go to a good local university, and may be around the house for another 9-10 years, and hence the space may be well utilized.

I would generally prefer a smaller home knowing that maintenance, utility, and taxes are more. However, all other homes we saw in 750-800k range just are not as appealing (very old, bad curb appeal, safety, non-walkable area being some reasons). Wondering if anyone can convince me that sometimes larger is ok if it fits all other criteria? There are slim pickings mostly in the area.

I assume selling taxable equities will be good to reduce the total loan amounts in this high interest climate. I anticipate that after my current home sells, outstanding loan balance will only be 400k.
I'd recommend avoiding the buy first (OP makes it sound not contingent on second sale), sell second approach unless you think you can handle a material drop in house prices while owning/paying for both homes in a suddenly frozen housing market for some years. I'm not saying this is about to happen, or will happen...just saying on occasion people have inadvertently gotten caught out.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

This market makes it difficult for contingent offers. We put in a non contingent bid for this last house for 6k over asking and still lost out to a cash buyer.
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steadyhand
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Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by steadyhand »

So I am still where I started. Put in another offer this weekend, above asking price, and again it was not accepted. I was the highest price bidder, but another offer waived inspections and that is what the seller preferred.
I am now slowly running out of time where I feel I may not be able to find a house and close before the next school year starts. That leaves me with three choices, none of which I was looking forward to. I am hoping some of you can help me decide which would be best. We are struggling a bit to pick between all of these difficult choices.

Option 1) Given the lack of homes coming on the market, and the difficulty in getting an offer accepted, rent a large apartment or home for the next year and sell current home. Current home will sell in a hot market. Use the time to learn more about the new location, understand daily living patterns, and patiently wait for the right home to come at the right price. Family will stay together. Will know what current home sells for before buying next one. The cons of this approach are having to move twice (putting some of out stuff in storage due to size difference of a rental home and current home, paying for movers twice), staying somewhat cramped and like temp housing, and having to sign a 1 year lease when we may find our next house anytime in between.

Option 2) Wait out an entire school year with me renting a small apartment and rest of family staying on in current home. Gives time to again wait for the right home with everyone having enough space. Will have to move only once. The cons of this approach are family having to live separately, paying rent in addition to mortgage on current home, not being able to sell current home in hot market.

Option 3) Wait a few months into the middle of the school year with me renting separately for a 6 month lease. Sell current home October time frame. Gives some more time to find a home and family will not be separate for too long. Will only have to move once. The cons of this approach are having to move in the middle of the school year, living separately for a few months, no guarantee will find the right home in a few more months. Current home sale may miss the moment of selling in a hot market.
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steadyhand
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Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by steadyhand »

Bumping up. Also changed the title to reflect the evolution of the topic.
Carl53
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by Carl53 »

While I hate moving, I'd suggest going with option 1. It offers the most flexibility while keeping your family intact. One concern would be getting a rental in a school district where you will end up.
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steadyhand
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by steadyhand »

Carl53 wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:41 pm While I hate moving, I'd suggest going with option 1. It offers the most flexibility while keeping your family intact. One concern would be getting a rental in a school district where you will end up.
Yes that is a good point. Larger rental homes are in limited supply and if you add in the constraint of school district, it gets more narrower.
onourway
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by onourway »

I think option 1 is your best bet. Yes, moving twice will be a challenge. But it's a known quantity and entirely doable. It places you in the strongest position as it gives you ample time to make a good decision on a purchase after your current home is already sold. You could rush to buy a home now, find out within the year that it's not right for some reason, and still end up moving twice while also having to deal with the hassles and costs of two home sales.
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FoundingFather
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Re: Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by FoundingFather »

steadyhand wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:36 pm Bumping up. Also changed the title to reflect the evolution of the topic.
Since you're just soliciting opinions, I'll offer mine. Mind you, I am just going to present you with my biases and values, but I like them, so maybe you will too. :wink:

I hate moving, and I hate being in a situation in which I can't put down roots. Because of that, my wife and I recently bought a home we had never seen in person in a different state months earlier than our original plan. This allowed us to avoid the above with certainty, though it cost us a few months of double payments extra and did introduce some risk (i.e. what if we didn't like it?). While everyone here seems convinced that I must have ruined our lives, :wink: we love the home, I didn't have to move twice, and I never had to live in a very temporary/transient situation. We are incredibly happy with how it all happened.

That said, I would move twice, and live in an apartment, maybe paying month to month rent to allow flexibility, to not be separated from my family for a year while looking for a home. My identity as a husband and father is more a part of me than my occupation, my hobbies, or anything else, and I can't imagine missing a year of my kids growing up - I've missed too much already. As of right now, all of my kids still want me around, so I'd never give this time up.

Here is the only strong advice I'll give you that isn't just my own prejudices on display - people make a lot of stupid decisions when they feel trapped, and it seems to me from your posts that you are starting to feel trapped and desperate. If that's true, find a way to step back, take a breath, and look at the situation with calm, fresh eyes. Whatever you decide, make sure it actually represents your values and desires, not some reflexive action because of the illusion of a lack of options.

Hang in there. :D

Founding Father
"I do not think myself equal to the Command I am honored with." -George Washington (excerpt from Journals of the Continental Congress, 16 June 1775)
Pinotage
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Re: Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by Pinotage »

FoundingFather wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:06 am
Here is the only strong advice I'll give you that isn't just my own prejudices on display - people make a lot of stupid decisions when they feel trapped, and it seems to me from your posts that you are starting to feel trapped and desperate. If that's true, find a way to step back, take a breath, and look at the situation with calm, fresh eyes. Whatever you decide, make sure it actually represents your values and desires, not some reflexive action because of the illusion of a lack of options.

Hang in there. :D

Founding Father
The above is OUTSTANDING advice for both this specific situation and life in general.

Very well said.
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steadyhand
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Re: Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by steadyhand »

Pinotage wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:17 am
FoundingFather wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:06 am
Here is the only strong advice I'll give you that isn't just my own prejudices on display - people make a lot of stupid decisions when they feel trapped, and it seems to me from your posts that you are starting to feel trapped and desperate. If that's true, find a way to step back, take a breath, and look at the situation with calm, fresh eyes. Whatever you decide, make sure it actually represents your values and desires, not some reflexive action because of the illusion of a lack of options.

Hang in there. :D

Founding Father
The above is OUTSTANDING advice for both this specific situation and life in general.

Very well said.
Totally agree. This is the kind of wisdom that keeps bringing me back to this forum for every major life decision. I am so glad some of you are willing to share your opinions and even biases and prejudices.
EnjoyIt
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Re: Moving mechanics - with time running out

Post by EnjoyIt »

FoundingFather wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:06 am
steadyhand wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:36 pm Bumping up. Also changed the title to reflect the evolution of the topic.
….
Here is the only strong advice I'll give you that isn't just my own prejudices on display - people make a lot of stupid decisions when they feel trapped, and it seems to me from your posts that you are starting to feel trapped and desperate. If that's true, find a way to step back, take a breath, and look at the situation with calm, fresh eyes. Whatever you decide, make sure it actually represents your values and desires, not some reflexive action because of the illusion of a lack of options.

Hang in there. :D

Founding Father
Quote above abridged by me.

I think Founding Father is 100% correct. People make mistakes when being forced to make decisions under pressure. The only way I can see releasing that pressure is to get a decent rental and move twice. Although moving twice is stressful, once the first move is done, you will have plenty of time to find the home you want to live in. You may want to upgrade or remodel which can be done while living in the rental. Also moving a short distance is much less painless then moving 100s of miles away.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Wenonah
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Re: Preparing to relocate: can we afford this home?

Post by Wenonah »

When my kids were in 5th and 7th grades we moved from a 1400 sq ft house to 2400. The family dynamics were never the same or as fun. As someone mentioned/warned, the kids just go hide in their caves and you lose a large part of your relationship. How can you make a spontaneous joke, play catch with an orange, beg a sibling or kid to play Scrabble, or just share a moment when they are hiding in their room. A 6000 sq foot house would be regretful and your family will never be the same.
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