Avantis ETF Filing Today
Avantis ETF Filing Today
Attached is an SEC filing dated today (21 March 2023). Looks like Avantis plans on launching a half dozen new ETFs.
Search for "ticker:" in the attached document to jump to each ETF.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... 212023.htm
Search for "ticker:" in the attached document to jump to each ETF.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... 212023.htm
Last edited by Gaston on Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Thought I'd make it a little easier by copying and pasting the names of the ETFs below:
AVGV - Avantis® All Equity Markets Value ETF
AVDS - Avantis® International Small Cap Equity ETF
AVMG - Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF
AVTD - Avantis® Total International Markets Equity ETF
AVTV - Avantis® Total International Markets Value ETF
AVLC - Avantis® U.S. Large Cap Equity ETF
AVGV - Avantis® All Equity Markets Value ETF
AVDS - Avantis® International Small Cap Equity ETF
AVMG - Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF
AVTD - Avantis® Total International Markets Equity ETF
AVTV - Avantis® Total International Markets Value ETF
AVLC - Avantis® U.S. Large Cap Equity ETF
Last edited by Gaston on Fri May 05, 2023 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Which of these ETFs will make use of factors, and which ones will not?
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
AVGV (All Markets Value) looks interesting & deviates from the US/ex-US split they use in AVGE.
*AVGV target US 60/ex-US Dev Mkts 30/ EM 10
*AVGV target US 60/ex-US Dev Mkts 30/ EM 10
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Let me know when they release an emerging markets small cap fund.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
AVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
AVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pmAVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
.26% is cheapmuffins14 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 pmAVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pmAVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
I am still using vanguard funds plus the high factor tilted Avantis funds, though. I don’t really want a one fund solution, since it limits TLH options and I prefer to tilt a bit differently and more aggressively
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Avantis® Total International Markets Equity ETF (ticker: AVTD) will be a direct competitor for DFAX at Dimensional, I'm guessing - it even has the same MER of 0.31.
I was going to ask why the new heavy-value-tilted fund (AVTG) is at market cap weights, whereas AVGE isn't (I know that AVGE is a competitor for DGEIX), but I guess with AVTD, investors will be able to set their own market cap weighting in a 2-fund set-up with AVUS (0.21% weighted MER at 60/40).
I was going to ask why the new heavy-value-tilted fund (AVTG) is at market cap weights, whereas AVGE isn't (I know that AVGE is a competitor for DGEIX), but I guess with AVTD, investors will be able to set their own market cap weighting in a 2-fund set-up with AVUS (0.21% weighted MER at 60/40).
Last edited by Phyneas on Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
60% AVGE | 20 Year TIPS LMP | 5% Cash
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
What value premium do you assume for planning? 2%, 1%?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:18 am.26% is cheapmuffins14 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 pmAVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pmAVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
I am still using vanguard funds plus the high factor tilted Avantis funds, though. I don’t really want a one fund solution, since it limits TLH options and I prefer to tilt a bit differently and more aggressively
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
1% over the long run but only if I can be saved from my tendency to tinker, which is why these all in one funds are a godsendmuffins14 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:54 amWhat value premium do you assume for planning? 2%, 1%?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:18 am.26% is cheapmuffins14 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 pmAVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pmAVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
I am still using vanguard funds plus the high factor tilted Avantis funds, though. I don’t really want a one fund solution, since it limits TLH options and I prefer to tilt a bit differently and more aggressively
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
AVGV (All Markets Value) is probably going to be dominated by LCV I would guess. Would be nice if they include a strong SCV tilt though - 50/50 LCV/SCV would be nice.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I feel like a lot of the premium is gobbled up by fees sadly, especially internationally. Maybe 0.3-0.4 value load multiplied by a 1% premium and then a blended fee of 0.3%?CletusCaddy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:04 am1% over the long run but only if I can be saved from my tendency to tinker, which is why these all in one funds are a godsendmuffins14 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:54 amWhat value premium do you assume for planning? 2%, 1%?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:18 am.26% is cheapmuffins14 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 pmAVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pm
AVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/reward
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
I am still using vanguard funds plus the high factor tilted Avantis funds, though. I don’t really want a one fund solution, since it limits TLH options and I prefer to tilt a bit differently and more aggressively
It just gets worse with an Avantis fund of funds rather than a blend of Avantis and market-cap, yeah?
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
2% expectedmuffins14 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:54 amWhat value premium do you assume for planning? 2%, 1%?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:18 am.26% is cheapmuffins14 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 pmAVGV still feels expensive. I’m guessing we could still replicate it with some ratios of VT + AVDV + AVUV for a lower total cost. Perhaps not quiet as valuey, but I’m not sureNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:43 pmAVGV = higher expected returns, stronger tilts to Value and exUS. For those with an appetite for higher risk/rewardCletusCaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm Wow this is so interesting thank you for sharing
AVGV or AVGE? Let the debate commence!
AVGE = lower expected returns, smaller tilts to value, home country bias (US). For those that want something closer to VT with less potential tracking error
I am still using vanguard funds plus the high factor tilted Avantis funds, though. I don’t really want a one fund solution, since it limits TLH options and I prefer to tilt a bit differently and more aggressively
But I plan for no premium at all just to set expectations low, I like the diversification even with no premium
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
With no premium, but definite costs of 0.2-0.38%, it seems like you’re paying for a higher-variance asset and hoping for enough not-correlation and rebalancing to be worth the fees?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:00 am
2% expected
But I plan for no premium at all just to set expectations low, I like the diversification even with no premium
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I didn't think AVGE could get any more perfect.... however, AVGV proved me wrong.
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20% IVV / 40% IBIT / 20% IXUS / 20% VGLT + chill
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
If I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:8000m wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
When will AVGV available?
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Yes, at a minimum I expect those benefits to exceed the hurdle rate of additional fees for planning purposesmuffins14 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:11 amWith no premium, but definite costs of 0.2-0.38%, it seems like you’re paying for a higher-variance asset and hoping for enough not-correlation and rebalancing to be worth the fees?Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:00 am
2% expected
But I plan for no premium at all just to set expectations low, I like the diversification even with no premium
Of course I would expect it to return much more over the long term
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
You probably know that a lot of effort went into cleaning and standardizing the historical data sets that were used, and still continue to be used, for factor analyses. That cleaning process required lots of small, seemingly innocuous decisions, such as whether to measure a company's book value from its last fiscal year, from its most recent quarter, or from a different time period.
Various researchers have shown, however, that if you make ever so slightly different decisions on these "small" points, many of the alleged factor premia disappear. This in no way suggests sloppiness on the part of researchers; it's just a reality of the types of decisions that one must make in standardizing historical data.
For this and a couple other reasons, I am hoping for a mere 0.5% premium on my modest value tilt.
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3886984Gaston wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:36 amYou probably know that a lot of effort went into cleaning and standardizing the historical data sets that were used, and still continue to be used, for factor analyses. That cleaning process required lots of small, seemingly innocuous decisions, such as whether to measure a company's book value from its last fiscal year, from its most recent quarter, or from a different time period.
Various researchers have shown, however, that if you make ever so slightly different decisions on these "small" points, many of the alleged factor premia disappear. This in no way suggests sloppiness on the part of researchers; it's just a reality of the types of decisions that one must make in standardizing historical data.
For this and a couple other reasons, I am hoping for a mere 0.5% premium on my modest value tilt.
That’s one example paper of what you allude to. I think it’s a bit much to consider all of the 96 “other-definition” value portfolios to be equally reasonable. Even when doing so, my takeaway is that the value premium could be estimated as 75% as large as the original estimate, when looking at the full dataset.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Total International Markets Equity ETF AVTD seems to be similar to dimensional DFAX ETF. Till now Avantis didn't have a single total ex-US ETF. expense ratio is 0.31% vs 0.3% for DFAX.Gaston wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:40 pm Thought I'd make it a little easier by copying and pasting the names of the ETFs below:
Avantis® All Equity Markets Value ETF AVGV
Avantis® International Small Cap Equity ETF AVDS
Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF AVMG
Avantis® Total International Markets Equity ETF AVTD
Avantis® Total International Markets Value ETF AVTV
Avantis® U.S. Large Cap Equity ETF AVLC
Any expected benefits of using AVTD vs DFAX?
One problem with DFAX is small NAV - $22.6. So that adds to trading costs when buying the ETF. Am I correct? DFAX will have a tax loss harvesting partner..
No individual stocks.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Thank you. I hope you are correct.muffins14 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:03 am That’s one example paper of what you allude to. I think it’s a bit much to consider all of the 96 “other-definition” value portfolios to be equally reasonable. Even when doing so, my takeaway is that the value premium could be estimated as 75% as large as the original estimate, when looking at the full dataset.
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Why would AVGV on its own with those 5 funds be appealing to people? Would this be used in combo with something like VT? It's missing big segments, right? AVGE seems like a more diversified single holding?Gaston wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:09 pmIf I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:8000m wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:55 pmWhy would AVGV on its own with those 5 funds be appealing to people? Would this be used in combo with something like VT? It's missing big segments, right? AVGE seems like a more diversified single holding?Gaston wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:09 pmIf I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:8000m wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
It’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:55 pmWhy would AVGV on its own with those 5 funds be appealing to people? Would this be used in combo with something like VT? It's missing big segments, right? AVGE seems like a more diversified single holding?Gaston wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:09 pmIf I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:8000m wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Seems like an awful lot of Avantis funds to choose from. Does a company with this amount of assets usually have so many funds?
As for what’s new, AVGV is closer to what I want than AVGE but still prefer my current mix of:
AVUS 30%
AVUV 25%
AVDE 20%
AVDV 15%
AVEM 10%
As for what’s new, AVGV is closer to what I want than AVGE but still prefer my current mix of:
AVUS 30%
AVUV 25%
AVDE 20%
AVDV 15%
AVEM 10%
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
AVGV does not seem to be a higher "value tilt" though, it's exclusively value holdings.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:55 pmWhy would AVGV on its own with those 5 funds be appealing to people? Would this be used in combo with something like VT? It's missing big segments, right? AVGE seems like a more diversified single holding?Gaston wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:09 pmIf I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:8000m wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am I read through most of the AVGV filing's fine print in an attempt to better gage how suitable it could be for taxable accounts. Given the fund of funds approach, the component funds & their AVGE FOF track record (albeit very limited), I'm left hoping it will be reasonably simpatico for taxable accounts. Anybody develop a more convicted view on AVGV's taxable acc suitability?
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Sure it does. By definition, it is exclusively Value and has higher value loadings, therefore it has a higher Value tilt since ALL of Avantis funds implement Value at some level of their screening process.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:30 pmAVGV does not seem to be a higher "value tilt" though, it's exclusively value holdings.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:55 pmWhy would AVGV on its own with those 5 funds be appealing to people? Would this be used in combo with something like VT? It's missing big segments, right? AVGE seems like a more diversified single holding?Gaston wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:09 pm
If I am reading the filing correctly, AVGV (All Equity Markets Value ETF) looks to be made up of 5 underlying ETFs:
Avantis U.S. Large Cap Value ETF (23%)
Avantis U.S. Small Cap Value ETF (16%)
Avantis International Large Cap Value ETF (47%)
Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF (24%)
Avantis Emerging Markets Value ETF (8%)
The percentages within parentheses reflect the annual portfolio turnover of each ETF, per the Avantis annual report from 31 Aug 2022. For comparison, the annual turnover of Vanguard's VOO and VIOV ETFs are 2% and 36%, respectively.
You will know that higher turnover can translate into higher capital gains, depending on how effective Avantis's ETF structure is in mitigating those gains. Many ETF's are pretty effective as this, but I don't know the detail for Avantis. Can anyone comment further?
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
It's easy enough to implement fund-of-fund solutions for clients of various tastes, so why not? People like a one fund solution, but a one fund solution may not fit all tastes - so you have multiple ones out there.geo99 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:20 pm Seems like an awful lot of Avantis funds to choose from. Does a company with this amount of assets usually have so many funds?
As for what’s new, AVGV is closer to what I want than AVGE but still prefer my current mix of:
AVUS 30%
AVUV 25%
AVDE 20%
AVDV 15%
AVEM 10%
Nothing wrong with just holding the underlying ones and having a 5 fund or so portfolio mix - that's what I prefer since it allows for unique TLH opportunities.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
For it to be a "tilt", it seems like it shouldn't be exclusively value.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:34 pmSure it does. By definition, it is exclusively Value and has higher value loadings, therefore it has a higher Value tilt since ALL of Avantis funds implement Value at some level of their screening process.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:30 pmAVGV does not seem to be a higher "value tilt" though, it's exclusively value holdings.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Value has varying degrees of loadings. Not everything called "Value" is the same. ALL of Avantis funds have Value even if their name doesn't explicitly state it's a Value fund.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:39 pmFor it to be a "tilt", it seems like it shouldn't be exclusively value.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:34 pmSure it does. By definition, it is exclusively Value and has higher value loadings, therefore it has a higher Value tilt since ALL of Avantis funds implement Value at some level of their screening process.tj wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:30 pmAVGV does not seem to be a higher "value tilt" though, it's exclusively value holdings.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pm
I tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
Even being 100% Value is a tilt because you are already mostly exposed to market beta. To be pure Value, you'd have to go long/short.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
I agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate tilt of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pmI think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
Last edited by Apathizer on Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
You shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holdingApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:32 pmI agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pmI think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pmI tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
VT 50% AVGV 50% - different combinations of this is interesting.
Also useful for others who have too much in SP500 due to various reasons.
Also useful for others who have too much in SP500 due to various reasons.
No individual stocks.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
But a portfolio that heavily value tilted will likely be highly volatile and has more short-term under-performance risk. That's not appealing for many investors.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pmYou shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holdingApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:32 pmI agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pmI think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pmIt’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returnsApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:23 pm
I tend to agree. While I'm convinced factors provide beneficial diversification, AVGV seems like too much of a good thing. Overall AVGE seems like a better single-fund equity option. I wish it had a little more ex-US allocation, but that's not a deal breaker.
At this point I just need to ignore my portfolio until late June when dividends are issued.
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Precisely, there’s not a one size fits all solution, AVGE may be more preferable to some but it comes with its own drawbacks if you want more value or exUSApathizer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:06 amBut a portfolio that heavily value tilted will likely be highly volatile and has more short-term under-performance risk. That's not appealing for many investors.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pmYou shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holdingApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:32 pmI agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pmI think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pm
It’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returns
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
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- Location: Northern Michigan
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
It's basically a Larry Light, which is great for me. Allows me to have two-funds, only having to rebalance between fixed income and equity. Makes the Boglehead three-fund portfolio seem downright complex,Apathizer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:06 amBut a portfolio that heavily value tilted will likely be highly volatile and has more short-term under-performance risk. That's not appealing for many investors.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pmYou shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holdingApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:32 pmI agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pmI think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:10 pm
It’s for those that want a single equity solution with higher value tilts and higher exUS exposure for higher expected returns
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
Livin' the dream
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Yes, to me that's also appealing. Of course you can use AVGV for the same purpose, but for investors who are in the withdrawal stage it might be too risky. AVGE seems like a more balanced approach.Morse Code wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:15 amIt's basically a Larry Light, which is great for me. Allows me to have two-funds, only having to rebalance between fixed income and equity. Makes the Boglehead three-fund portfolio seem downright complex,Apathizer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:06 amBut a portfolio that heavily value tilted will likely be highly volatile and has more short-term under-performance risk. That's not appealing for many investors.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pmYou shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holdingApathizer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:32 pmI agree. I think the 2nd option might only appeal to investors who don't plan to use the money for at least a decade willing to take significant risk. That's not me. I'm content with the more moderate of AVGE.LeoB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pm
I think the posters above have it right collectively. Most would probably use AVGV in either one of two ways.
(1) Mix with market-cap weighted index funds to desired value tilt. For example: 30% VTI, 20% VXUS, 50% AVGV. This could provide similar factor exposure to AVGE, but it would be an easier transition for someone with large unrealized gains in their taxable Vanguard funds.
(2) 100% AVGV for a higher value allocation than AVGE provides. I personally wouldn’t do this, but a vocal minority seems to be really enthusiastic here.
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
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Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
An AVGV like equity exposure would have had less start date sensitivity and supported higher SWR than AVGE historically. Sometimes it pays to have highly diversified risk during your withdrawal stage, especially if constructed like the Larry portfolio with significant bond exposure.Apathizer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:37 pmYes, to me that's also appealing. Of course you can use AVGV for the same purpose, but for investors who are in the withdrawal stage it might be too risky. AVGE seems like a more balanced approach.Morse Code wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:15 amIt's basically a Larry Light, which is great for me. Allows me to have two-funds, only having to rebalance between fixed income and equity. Makes the Boglehead three-fund portfolio seem downright complex,Apathizer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:06 amBut a portfolio that heavily value tilted will likely be highly volatile and has more short-term under-performance risk. That's not appealing for many investors.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pmYou shouldn’t be investing in stocks at all unless you largely plan to hold for a decade and not completely sell off the entirety of the holding
A portfolio tilted more to value tends to have less start date sensitivity as well
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Avantis just continues to get better and better. They are going to seriously give Vanguard and DFA a run for their money.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
Although so many options is a little intimidating. It also makes me understand even more why someone would prefer one simple automatic re-balancing fund.
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
That Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF looks REALLY appealing as a one-fund-for-life. The all markets value fund also looks great as a one fund for the equity portion of a portfolio.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
The Moderate one may be a little too light on international for some. 47% U.S., 18% international, 33% fixed, 2% REIT. But if you're someone who thinks Vanguard has gone a little too heavy on international in their Target funds, this one might hit the spot.JSPECO9 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:23 pmThat Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF looks REALLY appealing as a one-fund-for-life. The all markets value fund also looks great as a one fund for the equity portion of a portfolio.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
That wouldn't be diverse enough for me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Avantis bond funds are all US with more corporate bond allocation than a total bond fund. I'd rather just go with AVGE and BNDW to be thoroughly diversified.JSPECO9 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:23 pmThat Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF looks REALLY appealing as a one-fund-for-life. The all markets value fund also looks great as a one fund for the equity portion of a portfolio.
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
+1. Based on the target %, it's ~70/30 US/Intl for stocks.Tom_T wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:30 pmThe Moderate one may be a little too light on international for some. 47% U.S., 18% international, 33% fixed, 2% REIT. But if you're someone who thinks Vanguard has gone a little too heavy on international in their Target funds, this one might hit the spot.JSPECO9 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:23 pmThat Avantis® Moderate Allocation ETF looks REALLY appealing as a one-fund-for-life. The all markets value fund also looks great as a one fund for the equity portion of a portfolio.
The SEC document also gives ranges for each stock sub class: 40-60 for US, 7-20 for Intl Developed, 3-10 for EM.
So there's room for the US/Intl ratio to float quite a bit. It'll be interesting to see how the fund managers adjust the US/Intl allocation over time. I would assume 70/30 +/- a few percentage points like +/- 5, and not +/- 10.
Re: Avantis ETF Filing Today
When are these expected to be available?