Bogleheads.org

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:38 pm**

Recently, a vehicle started up and backed up out of the parking space next to mine while I was approaching. It made noises like the engine was falling apart. I believe it was a Toyota Venza, which is a hybrid vehicle. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I was just googling some hybrid car reviews and saw that the AVAS (acoustic vehicle alerting system) on some hybrids has been a source of distress. Apparently, car manufacturers must install this noise-making system on hybrid and EVs in order that people can hear them. I'm shopping vehicles and this could be a concern. Is anyone unhappy with the AVAS on their hybrid vehicles, and which ones are the most concerning?

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:01 pm**

It's mandatory.

For Toyotas they are the called the Choir of Angels. It bothers some but it does serve the purpose, alerting those behind you that are looking down on their cell phones that you're backing up! Oddly, the choir speaker is located up by the front grill on my Rav 4.

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:09 pm**

Fremdon Ferndock wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:38 pm Recently, a vehicle started up and backed up out of the parking space next to mine while I was approaching. It made noises like the engine was falling apart. I believe it was a Toyota Venza, which is a hybrid vehicle. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I was just googling some hybrid car reviews and saw that the AVAS (acoustic vehicle alerting system) on some hybrids has been a source of distress. Apparently, car manufacturers must install this noise-making system on hybrid and EVs in order that people can hear them. I'm shopping vehicles and this could be a concern. Is anyone unhappy with the AVAS on their hybrid vehicles, and which ones are the most concerning?

My 2008 wheelchair van was built for assisted living centers and the like. It had a backup beep that was triggered when backing up, probably due to DOT requirements since it was built for transporting patients.

At some point it stopped beeping and I never bothered fixing it as my van wasn't used for anyone except me.

I think it might be wired to my backup lights.

I can see the need for such a device on EVs.

Broken Man 1999

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:45 pm**

Yeah these basically just went into effect. We bought our 2021 Hybrid and were surprised how loud it was. Especially in an underground parking garage below an apartment.

I looked it up at the time, apparently the law was passed back in 2010, didn't get the final rule until 2018, and then implementation started second half of 2019.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri ... ing_sounds

Talk about a very slow process.

The choir of angels is a good name for it. We always just call it the spaceship.

Edit:
I don't mind it. Since I drive a Prius and it has an extremely annoying reverse beep inside the car.

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:47 pm**

I don’t have a problem with the backup sound on our RAV4 Prime PHEV. Of course most of the time when the car is backing up I’m in the car itself, so it is not as loud for me as it is for someone outside the car. I understand some people might find the sound irritating, but some people found seatbelts to be irritating. Given how quiet these types of cars are at slow speeds, some sort of warning sound is probably a good idea.

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:30 pm**

I drive a Leaf and have the capability of turning the noise maker OFF with LeafSpy app + OBD Bluetooth module. But choose to keep it ON. I had an older Tesla with no backup noise and there were plenty of occasions where pedestrians were caught of guard when I was trying to back up. Now when I reverse and look in my mirror, I see a [profanity removed - moderator ClaycordJCA] look as the sound is an extremely cheesy EV backup chime. Sounds like a mix of Santas reigns and a golf cart beeper.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:02 am**

Does the AVAS only kick in when the vehicle is being powered by the electric motors? When is that happening?

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:08 am**

Depends on the car. My Hyundai Ioniq hybrid issues a beeping sound when backing up, regardless of whether the engine is engaged. When it's running on electric in forward motion, it makes a soft high-pitched noise but I'm not sure if that's just the electric motor or if it's amplified in some way. I don't find any aspect of it unpleasant.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:35 am**

SpaceMonkey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:08 am Depends on the car. My Hyundai Ioniq hybrid issues a beeping sound when backing up, regardless of whether the engine is engaged. When it's running on electric in forward motion, it makes a soft high-pitched noise but I'm not sure if that's just the electric motor or if it's amplified in some way. I don't find any aspect of it unpleasant.

The noisy vehicle I heard was backing up; pretty sure it was a Toyota Venza. Hopefully, the driving couldn't hear it because it was quite unpleasant and attention-getting. I actually thought the engine was disintegrating.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:47 pm**

The sound on my Honda hybrid doesn't bother me and no one else has complained. It's not just in reverse.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:53 pm**

We switched ours to play that Ludacris song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw429JGL5zo (safe for work), the NSFW original is much better.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:58 pm**

It is required by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141 for electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles operating in electric mode.

The sound must be on whenever in reverse and in forward up to 30 kmh/18.6 mph. It does not need to be on when in park.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:15 pm**

billaster wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:58 pm It is required by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141 for electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles operating in electric mode.

The sound must be on whenever in reverse and in forward up to 30 kmh/18.6 mph. It does not need to be on when in park.

In forward? I don't recall that sound ever when moving forward in my hybrid.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:18 pm**

On a Toyota Rav4 hybrid, just apply the accelerator pedal to activate the internal combustion engine and the pedestrian backup warning will remain silent.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:22 pm**

I can see why they have that. My 2013 doesn’t, and when it’s running on electric, I’m not always sure it’s moving, and I’m driving the vehicle.

Apparently the sound is switchable in Teslas. Our neighbor has theirs set to sound like an ice cream truck.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:25 pm**

runninginvestor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:45 pm I don't mind it. Since I drive a Prius and it has an extremely annoying reverse beep inside the car.

Bought a Carista OBD2 for a different Japanese model. I was able to turn off the beeping inside the car when in reverse. I was also able to shorten or lower the volume on some of the others. Obviously, you can not turn off the warnings and sounds mandated by law. Looks like it works with the 3rd and 4th gen Prius models. Made an enormous difference in how much I like the car.

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:30 am**

Found this on Carcomplaints. Apparently, the Honda CRV Hybrid is a worst offender:

The Active Vehicle Alert System (AVAS) is very noisy and irritating. My neighborhood is affected with this Noise Pollution to point where I am embarrassed to drive in early AM or late PM. Several have noted "What is that noise". It is also quite annoying and distracting in "normal" driving.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR- ... stem.shtml

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:48 am**

We've got a RAV4 PHEV, and the sound of that is much more noticeable than the whoosh spaceship sound of our former Prius V.

If you're worried, just go to the dealer of the car you want and listen.

It's a pretty distinctive sound; there are a couple of other RAV4 PHEV's in our neighborhood, and I can identify them by that sound.

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:50 am**

runninginvestor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:45 pm Yeah these basically just went into effect. We bought our 2021 Hybrid and were surprised how loud it was. Especially in an underground parking garage below an apartment.

I looked it up at the time, apparently the law was passed back in 2010, didn't get the final rule until 2018, and then implementation started second half of 2019.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri ... ing_sounds

Talk about a very slow process.

The choir of angels is a good name for it. We always just call it the spaceship.

Edit:
I don't mind it. Since I drive a Prius and it has an extremely annoying reverse beep inside the car.

You can turn off that inside-the-car reverse beep, or in our case we had them change the inside car to just one beep, so you know you're in reverse but it doesn't keep beeping at you.

Posted: **Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:23 pm**

Looks like there might be a chance that hybrids and EVs w/o noise generators could get recalled to put them in.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2023 ... tive.shtml

Bogleheads.org

Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?

Re: Problems with AVAS on hybrid vehicles?