Advice on Death of a Parent

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
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Novice2020
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Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Novice2020 »

My father sadly passed away a few weeks ago, peacefully, after several years of declining health :(. It's been a rough time for me and my family. I am doing my best to keep the family OK during this tough period and take care of things that need to be done. I wanted to start this thread to make sure I am not overlooking anything and to respectfully ask for the Bogleheads community's assistance to make sure we are on the right track.

The last few years, I had steadily taken over financial responsibilities from my father (my mother has never been involved or interested in these things). I think we had prepared fully for this, as all accounts had named beneficiaries, etc, and I think/hope I had a pretty good sense of everything that existed and that there is nothing floating out there that my dad didn't tell me about or I don't know about.

Here is our overview of what we've done so far:

Rollover IRA--This is in the process of being transferred to my mom. Sounds like it will be pretty seamless, and that she will inherit the IRA in kind (after ensuring that 2022 RMDs are withdrawn first). Because they were married, I believe the IRA will NOT have the 10-year withdrawal requirement and that she will merely be subject to RMDs on the account for the rest of her life. It also occurred to me that with the market declines this year, and my mom being two years younger than my father was, the RMDs for next year, which are based in part on account balances at the end of 2022, will probably be lower than this year.

Social Security--This appears to be difficult to navigate! My dad was 76, my mom is 74. They both received Social Security. Because my father took it later than my mother, his payments were significantly higher (about $1,000 a month higher). Our understanding is that my mom will be entitled to a $255 one-time payment, and that she will also be entitled to his higher amount (the $1,000 a month higher one) for the rest of her life, but only after she formally applies and is approved. Does this sound right to everybody? Are we missing anything? SS told us they will require a copy of their marriage certificate, which seems odd to me as they've been paying joint taxes for decades....I am surprised this is not done automatically in these circumstances. Seems strange to me.

Life insurance--Very difficult so far. They promised us they would mail us paperwork to complete; it still hasn't arrived. We called again earlier today and they said they are going to e-mail it to us. I'm starting to get frustrated about this and sensing the insurance company is doing this just to hang onto the money longer and earn interest, etc...I am going to be aggressive on this next week if we still don't have any progress.

Online high-yield savings account--With a named beneficiary, this has already been transferred and is complete. This was very easy. I am looking into options to purchase Treasuries for my mom with some of this money.

I-Bonds with Treasury Direct: Like a lot of Bogleheads, we jumped on the I-Bond bandwagon last year. My father had purchased $10,000 in 2021 and 2022, and he also purchased two additional sets of $10,000 I-Bond gifts that he planned to deliver in 2023 and 2024. Similarly, I had front-loaded I-Bond purchases this year that I planned to gift to him next year and the following year, but which I will now plan to give to my mom or sister. His I-Bond account had a named beneficiary, so I hope it will be simple to transfer these over, but I'm not expecting dealing with TreasuryDirect to be pleasant. I am worried about what exactly will happen to the front-loaded gifted I-Bonds though.

Other miscellaneous things: My father was receiving certain benefits (long-term care insurance, etc) that my parents were paying for out of my mom's pension. We have cancelled all of those already so that the payments should stop being deducted from my mom's pension. Similarly, we canceled his Life Alert medical device account. We have not yet contacted banks/credit card companies, etc, but that is next on my list. All of his accounts were joint with my mom, so I imagine it will be easy (i hope) to merely remove his name but keep the accounts otherwise. Similarly, the house was in both their names, so I guess we should probably update the deed to remove his name? We've also started changing my mom's accounts with her permission, which listed him as her beneficiary, to change it to me and my sister.

My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.

Last but not least, based on everything we've done so far, our initial thought was that there is no need to probate his will, as everything was left to my mom and she was already the named beneficiary on all of the relevant accounts and, so far, everything seems like it's going ok in the process to transfer everything over.

Thank you for reading and I look forward to any responses.
raveon
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by raveon »

1. Sorry for your loss.

2. In my experience, Treasury Direct customer service is quite friendly and easy to deal with it. The website is not the best but managable. It might be easier to speak to the customer service to make the process smoother. This link might be help you: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/savings- ... -of-owner/

3. Regarding life insurance the forms/instructions for initial file claiming might be available on the company's website (especially if it is a fairly large/reputable company). You should be able to do this online.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I would only recommend one thing. What is the intestate rule on inheritance in your state and how is a will documented? I ask because in my state, it's 1/2 to the spouse and 1/2 to the kids. I don't know how a will works without going through probate.
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RubyTuesday
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by RubyTuesday »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm
I-Bonds with Treasury Direct: Like a lot of Bogleheads, we jumped on the I-Bond bandwagon last year. My father had purchased $10,000 in 2021 and 2022, and he also purchased two additional sets of $10,000 I-Bond gifts that he planned to deliver in 2023 and 2024. Similarly, I had front-loaded I-Bond purchases this year that I planned to gift to him next year and the following year, but which I will now plan to give to my mom or sister. His I-Bond account had a named beneficiary, so I hope it will be simple to transfer these over, but I'm not expecting dealing with TreasuryDirect to be pleasant. I am worried about what exactly will happen to the front-loaded gifted I-Bonds though.
Sorry for your loss.

Several things you mention with respect to I bonds are not correct.
- Treasury Direct accounts do not have beneficiaries. Securities have registrations. With respect to I bonds held at Treasury Direct, they are registered to an owner with potentially a secondary owner or beneficiary. This is on an individual bond basis.
- when your father bought gift bonds, he registered them and they were immediately owned by the owner he registered them to, regardless of whether he delivered them yet. So those gift bonds your dad bought belong to someone and TD can help move them to another account.
- if you bought I bonds as gifts for him that you haven’t delivered, you would have registered them to him and they will be in your gift box. If you registered them with a secondary owner or beneficiary, they belong to that person and TD can help move them. If they were registered without a secondary owner or beneficiary, they are in your father’s estate.
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passive101
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by passive101 »

I'm sorry for your loss. When my brother died I think it was over a month before most things were figured out with them. Since it was a driving releated death they also waited for the tox reports to come back.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by JoeRetire »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm My father sadly passed away a few weeks ago, peacefully, after several years of declining health
Sorry for your loss.
Social Security--This appears to be difficult to navigate! My dad was 76, my mom is 74. They both received Social Security. Because my father took it later than my mother, his payments were significantly higher (about $1,000 a month higher). Our understanding is that my mom will be entitled to a $255 one-time payment, and that she will also be entitled to his higher amount (the $1,000 a month higher one) for the rest of her life, but only after she formally applies and is approved. Does this sound right to everybody? Are we missing anything?
This is correct.

She will receive her own benefit plus about $1000 - ending up with a monthly amount that matches his benefit. And she will receive $255.
SS told us they will require a copy of their marriage certificate, which seems odd to me as they've been paying joint taxes for decades....I am surprised this is not done automatically in these circumstances. Seems strange to me.
The IRS does not require a marriage certificate to file taxes jointly.

The SSA requires a marriage certificate to collect spousal or survivor benefits. I assume you mom was not collecting spousal benefits.
My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.
You should contact the Veterans Administration. They will help you determine what you are entitled to.
Last but not least, based on everything we've done so far, our initial thought was that there is no need to probate his will, as everything was left to my mom and she was already the named beneficiary on all of the relevant accounts and, so far, everything seems like it's going ok in the process to transfer everything over.
You are probably right.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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retired@50
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by retired@50 »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.
Sorry for your loss.

I attended a funeral of a WWII veteran and a small group of 2 or 3 people in uniform showed up and played Taps during the grave site ceremony. Maybe you could check with the Army if your father was proud of his time in the military.

ETA: After re-reading, I suspect my point above is moot since he died several weeks ago, the funeral or memorial has probably already occurred.

Regards,
Last edited by retired@50 on Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandwich
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Sandwich »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm My father sadly passed away a few weeks ago, peacefully, after several years of declining health :(. It's been a rough time for me and my family. I am doing my best to keep the family OK during this tough period and take care of things that need to be done.....
Sorry for your loss, consider taking time to keep up your health as well during this stressful period.

Some responses to consider below ...
Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm
....

Rollover IRA--This is in the process of being transferred to my mom. Sounds like it will be pretty seamless, and that she will inherit the IRA in kind (after ensuring that 2022 RMDs are withdrawn first). Because they were married, I believe the IRA will NOT have the 10-year withdrawal requirement and that she will merely be subject to RMDs on the account for the rest of her life. It also occurred to me that with the market declines this year, and my mom being two years younger than my father was, the RMDs for next year, which are based in part on account balances at the end of 2022, will probably be lower than this year...
Consider the potential tax brackets for 2022 and 2023. 2022 may be filed Married filing jointly, whereas 2023 will be single. In my families case, I made efforts to bring in as much income into the year of spouse's death such as RMD, Annuity income, so that it would be taxed at a lower rate. The following year, the surviving spouse was in a higher bracket and also subject to IRMAA Medicare surcharge.
Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm
....

My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.
Some veterans in my area choose to be buried / interned in the local veterans cemetery. Maybe an option if one is nearby and family is interested.

Best of luck with all that you and our family need to do in the coming weeks and months.
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Tinkerer-in-Chief
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Tinkerer-in-Chief »

Regarding probate/intestacy: it might be worth reaching out to a court clerk at your jurisdiction’s probate court (or equivalent). It’s probable they could walk you through the procedural details. Be sure not to ask them for legal advice, however, because they will (graciously) not provide it.

It would definitely be worthwhile for the estate to pay a trust and estates lawyer for a quick consultation to be certain that you aren’t missing anything major with your plan to avoid probate.

Are you the estate’s executor?

My condolences for your loss.
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Stinky
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Stinky »

As mentioned upthread, go to the life insurance company’s website to see if there are death claim forms that you can download.

Sorry for your loss.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Longdog
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Longdog »

I'm so sorry for your loss. Sounds like you are doing a great job at trying to keep things together during this trying time for you and your family.

One thing I'd suggest is to make sure, if possible, that your mom ASSUMES your dad's IRA, not merely INHERITS it. It may be too late if the paperwork is already in place, and it may or may not make a difference in terms of RMD rules, but if there is a difference I think ASSUMING it (as her own) gives her more flexibility than INHERITING it. I know they seem like the same thing, but when I dealt with this on my dad's passing a number of years ago, I learned it was beneficial for my mom to assume his IRA as her own. This is an option only available to a surviving spouse.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by feehater »

Yes, VA should give him a gravestone if you desire.

Re: credit cards. Very few accounts that were opened in the past few decades are truly joint. Most are in one person’s name with the other as an authorized user. We’ve seen some instances here on bogleheads where a widow with not much credit history of her own had to open some brand new credit cards because what they thought were joint cards were solely in the husband’s name. I hope that doesn’t end up being the case for your mom, for simplicity as much as for any other reason.
chemocean
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by chemocean »

Sorry for your loss. When my mother died, my father submitted a notarized document as part of the administration of a small estate at the county office to remove my mother from the title of the house if he still owns his house. This was process was required when he sold the house several months later. Probably similar for vehicles if you wish to sell.
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BolderBoy
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by BolderBoy »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pmOur understanding is that my mom will be entitled to a $255 one-time payment, and that she will also be entitled to his higher amount (the $1,000 a month higher one) for the rest of her life, but only after she formally applies and is approved. Does this sound right to everybody? Are we missing anything? SS told us they will require a copy of their marriage certificate...
I think those items are correct.
My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.
I think the VA will pay for a fairly simple headstone - just the stone - the engraving will be up to you. I don't remember the steps to get this done. Also, if you take a copy of your father's DD214 and death certificate to a USPS they will give you an American flag. (this info is 15 years old and may have changed)

Sympathies for your loss.
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delamer
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by delamer »

If your mother had signed paperwork to provide a survivor benefit for your father for her pension (in the event she had predeceased him), then she may be entitled to a small bump-up in her pension now that your father is deceased.

Usually, if a pensioner elects to provide a survivor benefit their own benefit while alive is reduced. But if the beneficiary dies first, the pensioner’s benefit is returned to the full amount.
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GlacierRunner
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by GlacierRunner »

Life insurance companies usually have 10 days to provide claim forms. Typically if they don't provide the form within that time frame, you can create your own and send it in. If you continue having trouble with the company, consider contacting your state insurance department.
RetiredAL
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by RetiredAL »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm My father sadly passed away a few weeks ago, peacefully, after several years of declining health :(. It's been a rough time for me and my family. I am doing my best to keep the family OK during this tough period and take care of things that need to be done. I wanted to start this thread to make sure I am not overlooking anything and to respectfully ask for the Bogleheads community's assistance to make sure we are on the right track.
Following.

My very elderly widowed Dad passed 5 weeks ago. Everything is either in his Trust, or joint (Banking/Savings) with me. I have been the acting Trustee for years. His IRA has beneficiaries assigned -- sister and I. I meet with his lawyer next week to made sure I get all the steps right. Due to the Trust, there should be no probate.

One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.

To date, the only places I've notified of his death is DFAS (to stop his Military Retirement Pay), his long term care insurance carrier, and Navy Mutual ( life insurance). The setting of a timeline is one of the goals with meeting his lawyer.
GuyInFL
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by GuyInFL »

Longdog wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:50 pm I'm so sorry for your loss. Sounds like you are doing a great job at trying to keep things together during this trying time for you and your family.

One thing I'd suggest is to make sure, if possible, that your mom ASSUMES your dad's IRA, not merely INHERITS it. It may be too late if the paperwork is already in place, and it may or may not make a difference in terms of RMD rules, but if there is a difference I think ASSUMING it (as her own) gives her more flexibility than INHERITING it. I know they seem like the same thing, but when I dealt with this on my dad's passing a number of years ago, I learned it was beneficial for my mom to assume his IRA as her own. This is an option only available to a surviving spouse.
More info on this.

https://pocketsense.com/difference-betw ... -4959.html
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KingRiggs
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by KingRiggs »

Once the dust settles, make sure your mom has an updated will and updates the beneficiaries on her newly-inherited accounts to reflect her wishes.

Holdings passing from spouse to spouse are (fairly) straightforward, but passing to kids and other can be much more complicated without a will in force.
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HereToLearn
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by HereToLearn »

RetiredAL wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:15 pm
Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm My father sadly passed away a few weeks ago, peacefully, after several years of declining health :(. It's been a rough time for me and my family. I am doing my best to keep the family OK during this tough period and take care of things that need to be done. I wanted to start this thread to make sure I am not overlooking anything and to respectfully ask for the Bogleheads community's assistance to make sure we are on the right track.
Following.

My very elderly widowed Dad passed 5 weeks ago. Everything is either in his Trust, or joint (Banking/Savings) with me. I have been the acting Trustee for years. His IRA has beneficiaries assigned -- sister and I. I meet with his lawyer next week to made sure I get all the steps right. Due to the Trust, there should be no probate.

One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.

To date, the only places I've notified of his death is DFAS (to stop his Military Retirement Pay), his long term care insurance carrier, and Navy Mutual ( life insurance). The setting of a timeline is one of the goals with meeting his lawyer.
I want to echo the comment above about keeping your father on the joint account. Random checks dribbled in for months, so it was convenient to have the deceased's name on the account.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Sorry for your family's loss.

You mention you have been handling more and more your parent's finances, I'm sure your mother is glad you have been doing so. I would encourage you to get the necessary legal documents to do this task if you haven't already, things like POAs. No rush, but POAs can be useful.

Your father had LTC insurance, does your mother have LTC?

All in all I think you have done a very thorough job of guiding your mother through all of this.

Broken Man 1999
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billfromct
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by billfromct »

Depending on the value of the house & original cost, you may want to get an updated house value document at date of death to increase 1/2 the original cost basis for capital gains calculation should she sell the house to downsize or go into assisted living.

My understanding is a single person can have a $250k Federal capital gain exemption if they sell a house that they lived in for 2 of the past 5 years. If they bought the house a long time ago, it could have increased in value by 5 or 6 times, maybe more, from the original cost. A married couple can have up to a $500k Federal long term capital gain tax eliminated if they sell their house that they lived in for 2 of the past 5 years.

You may want to google “Federal capital gains tax if selling house & lived in for 2 of the past 5 years.

I bought my house about 40 years ago & the value have increased maybe 6 times from the original cost.

If she doesn’t have/want to move, it may not matter, but it could be an inexpensive thing to have should she sell the house while still alive.

bill
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by chemocean »

billfromct wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:15 pm Depending on the value of the house & original cost, you may want to get an updated house value document at date of death to increase 1/2 the original cost basis for capital gains calculation should she sell the house to downsize or go into assisted living.

My understanding is a single person can have a $250k Federal capital gain exemption if they sell a house that they lived in for 2 of the past 5 years. If they bought the house a long time ago, it could have increased in value by 5 or 6 times, maybe more, from the original cost. A married couple can have up to a $500k Federal long term capital gain tax eliminated if they sell their house that they lived in for 2 of the past 5 years.

You may want to google “Federal capital gains tax if selling house & lived in for 2 of the past 5 years.

I bought my house about 40 years ago & the value have increased maybe 6 times from the original cost.

If she doesn’t have/want to move, it may not matter, but it could be an inexpensive thing to have should she sell the house while still alive.

bill
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BobbyB
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by BobbyB »

I'm in a similar situation now -- my father passed away last month, and we're slowly working through all the financial stuff and also thinking that we can avoid probate since everything was joint or TOD/POD to my mother.

I have a question for y'all about this :
HereToLearn wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:13 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:15 pm One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.
I want to echo the comment above about keeping your father on the joint account. Random checks dribbled in for months, so it was convenient to have the deceased's name on the account.
We had trouble depositing a check made out to both my parents into a joint bank account. The bank teller said that it had to be endorsed by both of them. I don't think we had told the bank yet that my father had passed away. And since we're hoping to not go through probate, there is no appointed executor who can act on behalf of the estate. So how do you deposit a check made solely or jointly to a deceased person without their endorsement?
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by cjcerny »

Contact your state’s insurance regulation agency if your life insurance troubles persist.
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Morgan22
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Morgan22 »

BobbyB wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:18 pm
We had trouble depositing a check made out to both my parents into a joint bank account. The bank teller said that it had to be endorsed by both of them. I don't think we had told the bank yet that my father had passed away. And since we're hoping to not go through probate, there is no appointed executor who can act on behalf of the estate. So how do you deposit a check made solely or jointly to a deceased person without their endorsement?
Deposit through mobile deposit. Or ATM if for some reason there is no access to mobile deposit. Don't bother with a teller going forward.

edited to add: I never sign the back of a check anymore. Just write "For Deposit Only" and list the account # and deposit via mobile app. In the old days, deposited via ATM.
Last edited by Morgan22 on Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RetiredAL
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by RetiredAL »

BobbyB wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:18 pm I'm in a similar situation now -- my father passed away last month, and we're slowly working through all the financial stuff and also thinking that we can avoid probate since everything was joint or TOD/POD to my mother.

I have a question for y'all about this :
HereToLearn wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:13 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:15 pm One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.
I want to echo the comment above about keeping your father on the joint account. Random checks dribbled in for months, so it was convenient to have the deceased's name on the account.
We had trouble depositing a check made out to both my parents into a joint bank account. The bank teller said that it had to be endorsed by both of them. I don't think we had told the bank yet that my father had passed away. And since we're hoping to not go through probate, there is no appointed executor who can act on behalf of the estate. So how do you deposit a check made solely or jointly to a deceased person without their endorsement?
That's a concerning thought. Thanks for the heads up.

This may be state specific. For 50+ years, I've deposited checks made out to DW by marking them as "for deposit to acct xxxyyyzzz", which our joint account, and never have had an issue. My understanding has always been that since it's deposited to an account she is named on, endorsement is not required. I mark them this way to prevent someone else trying to deposit it to their account if stolen/misplaced, ect before the actual deposit is made.

About a year ago, I made a single deposit of 2 Dad checks, both from the US Treasury, inside (not the ATM) that totaled $120K, and the bank did not say boo!

I am joint on my Dad's Bank Accounts. In reviewing the account status with our banker about 5 months ago, specifically relating to the continuation of this checking account after he passes, the banker indicated the only issue of concern would with a house sale check made out the "Dad Trust" and that a "Dad Trust" account should be made yo accept it.

Calif has an abbreviated affidavit process for estates under $150K, where an executor files and gets named, but does not require a formal probate. Anything in a Trust or with TOD/POD is not included in the decedent's estate for probate purposes.

I will specifically ask this to my Dad's lawyer when I meet with him next Monday.
BobbyB
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by BobbyB »

Thanks for the mobile deposit suggestion, but my understanding is that a check still needs to be endorsed to be deposited with mobile deposit. My bank's app does say to endorse it and take photos of both sides.

I did a little internet searching on whether a check must be endorsed to deposit it, and the answer seems to be generally yes. Some websites said that endorsement might not be required if the check is below a certain amount. The check we had trouble depositing was a large check (>$200K) from the proceeds of a house sale. (Fortunately, my father passed away after the closing, otherwise that probably would have been a mess.)

Perhaps I'll ask their bank how to handle this. I know we'll have at least one more small check for an insurance refund coming. But I'll also be curious, RetiredAL, to hear what you learn from your lawyer.
Leesbro63
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Leesbro63 »

My guess is that the life insurance (it’s really death insurance) company isn’t purposefully dragging its feet. Probably understaffed as is the case in many businesses. I’d send a certified copy of the death certificate, with a cover letter identifying the policy etc, by certified mail. My guess is that will get someone’s attention.
Rattlesnake
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Rattlesnake »

My father was also a U.S. Army veteran. I don't believe he was receiving any kind of benefits, but I am wondering if there is anything we should explore here.

You did not give any detail however, here's a link.... https://www.va.gov/burials-memorials/ve ... allowance/

Regards,
Charlie
9th Infantry Division LRRP (Ranger) | 1968-69
rich126
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by rich126 »

Sorry about the loss. My father passed away last December. For a lot of things there isn't a rush to do them although I think most of us just want to get it over with.

1. Life Insurance - In my case I downloaded documents from the web site (I think, maybe I called them). Filled them out and emailed the documents and the death certificate to them. We had money from the life insurance within a couple of weeks. One of the easier things to deal with.

2. Social Security - I honestly can't remember what we did so it must have been pretty easy.

3. Pension - My father's company had gone out of business so it was taken over by PBGC. It was impossible to get through to a person. Often was #100 or more and never got a call back. Finally there was an option telling me where to send an email to with the death certificate and it worked. Never did talk to a person but the checks stopped coming.

4. Brokerages (Vanguard and T Rowe Price) - T Rowe Price was fairly easy. Vanguard was a nightmare but I won't go into that again. Eventually you get accounts at those brokerages and then I transferred it all to Fidelity since I have no money at either of the two places.

5. Funeral Home - They were pretty good to deal with. Our biggest issue was with the state because of a computer hack we could not get a death certificate for a month or more.

6. Emails - Technically you probably aren't supposed to access someone else's email account but my father had given us info previously. Our main goal was to watch out for important bills/emails.

7. Credit Cards - Fortunately he only had a couple and they were pretty easy to deal with.

8. Amazon - He had an account and that was very strange to close. I was surprised that they wanted me to log into his account to close it. Fortunately I had access and it was closed quickly.

9 .Car - He had one car and I gave it to my brother (we were co-executors of the estate). We found the title and went to a place that does tags/titles and it was pretty easy.

10. Retirement Apartment - He was living on one of those places where the person puts down a large (6 figure) deposit to move in and then pays a monthly rental. I showed them a copy of the will and they already had our names listed as beneficiaries so they allowed us access to clean out the apartment which took a month or two. Overall it seemed somewhat like a scam in the sense after we cleaned it out, they still required 3 months of rent, and then charged us $20K or so to fix up the place despite it just having normal wear/tear. And then we still couldn't get the money until the same apartment was rented out again. This just happened so overall took a good 9 months.

11. I went through my father's address book and in a few cases sent letters notifying them of his death. I also saw an email address with what seemed like a lady's email address. So I just sent an email to that address stating he had passed away. Very quickly I got a very nice email saying she was the lady that would often travel with my dad on his medical appointments and she had been trying to reach him. I was thankful I had sent her an email.

12. Taxes - We finally sent those in recently. There are forms to notify them that you are the executor, change of address, etc. Others can explain this better than me.

13. Forwarding address - My brother signed up for a postal box to get all of his mail forwarded since the apartment mailbox we no longer have access to, just in case there is something important (tax refund, in case it gets sent to the old address).

14. EIN - On the IRS web site you will need to sign up for a EIN # for the estate in order to open a bank account to receive funds, pay bills, etc.

15. Create some kind of spreadsheet or document to document what has been done. Scan receipts or important documents. I also set up a Fidelity FidSafe account to keep notes that my brother and I could access from a common location.

16. Cancel cable/internet/cell phones/etc. Just be careful here in that some accounts require 2 factor authentication and I know they would sometimes call my dad's phone to provide the security code. So we kept the phone going until we finished with the apartment. And yeah, I know that isn't probably legal but sometimes you gotta bend the rules a bit.

Overall it is a tedious, time consuming and painful experience and my dad's estate was pretty easy with no properties, just one car, life insurance and two brokerages, one bank account to deal with. And there were only two people receiving inheritance money/items, my brother and I were 50/50 on everything.

As I mentioned earlier, I think there often feels like a need to rush through things but in most cases you have time to figure this out. I did have access to an attorney but we used him sparingly. A friend of mine had to use one extensively for a year or two and he said I wouldn't want to know how much he had to pay him.

Best Wishes.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
RetiredAL
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by RetiredAL »

rich126 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:46 am
We who are just starting down this path, thank you for taking the time to post your detailed experiences.
retire2022
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by retire2022 »

Op

I know of two veterans which received low discounted car insurance and it applies to children of veterans as well.

Here is google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=reduced ... nt=gws-wiz

USnews article:

https://www.usnews.com/insurance/auto/b ... r-veterans
SuzBanyan
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by SuzBanyan »

retire2022 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:02 pm Op

I know of two veterans which received low discounted car insurance and it applies to children of veterans as well.

Here is google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=reduced ... nt=gws-wiz
My Dad is retired military and I have had coverage through USAA based on my relationship to him for years. My husband was a veteran and we receive discounts on many goods and services from third parties based on that status. Discounts include those from Apple, Home Depot and Verizon. My husband recently passed away and I am expecting that as a widow of a veteran (not retired military), I will be losing those discounts. Don’t know if this will apply to the OPs Mom as well.
McDougal
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by McDougal »

OP

Very sorry for your loss. Maybe not needed now, but FWIW my dad was a veteran also. After he died years ago, my mom was eligible for something called "Aid and Attendance". It was a small monthly (?) of money to help with her activities of daily living needs after she got to the point she could not live alone. In addition, I believe there was some kind of military pension she was able to get. The numbers were not large, but it definitely helped us.

Also, working with the customer service folks at the VA was great. This was before Covid (staffing issues?) but they always did a great job. Good luck.
Last edited by McDougal on Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
McDougal
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by McDougal »

duplicate
retire2022
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by retire2022 »

SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:11 pm
retire2022 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:02 pm Op

I know of two veterans which received low discounted car insurance and it applies to children of veterans as well.

Here is google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=reduced ... nt=gws-wiz
My Dad is retired military and I have had coverage through USAA based on my relationship to him for years. My husband was a veteran and we receive discounts on many goods and services from third parties based on that status. Discounts include those from Apple, Home Depot and Verizon. My husband recently passed away and I am expecting that as a widow of a veteran (not retired military), I will be losing those discounts. Don’t know if this will apply to the OPs Mom as well.
My second friend was son of Veteran and all of his vehicles were discounted under USAA.

I suggest you contact your carrier and inquire eligibility as spouse.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by bsteiner »

Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm ...
Life insurance--Very difficult so far. They promised us they would mail us paperwork to complete; it still hasn't arrived. We called again earlier today and they said they are going to e-mail it to us. I'm starting to get frustrated about this and sensing the insurance company is doing this just to hang onto the money longer and earn interest, etc...I am going to be aggressive on this next week if we still don't have any progress.
...
Other miscellaneous things: ... Similarly, the house was in both their names, so I guess we should probably update the deed to remove his name? We've also started changing my mom's accounts with her permission, which listed him as her beneficiary, to change it to me and my sister.
...
Don't worry about the life insurance. The insurance company will pay interest from the date of death.

If your father signs a new deed, how will he get it to you? Fortunately, if they owned it jointly, it became your mother's upon your father's death.

Unless the amount involved is sufficiently small, it's generally better not to name beneficiaries on taxable accounts. Instead, your mother could provide for you and your sister (in her Will) for you and your sister to inherit in separate trusts that you each control, rather than outright. That will keep your inheritances out of your estates for estate tax purposes, and protect your inheritances from your creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.
Topic Author
Novice2020
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Novice2020 »

Many thanks everyone for all of your responses and sympathy. I really appreciate it.

Quick update a few weeks later:
Most things are done except life insurance, social security and I-Bonds. More on those three below. Everything else has been completed--Fidelity customer service continues to shine. They made the process so easy, and the representative we dealt with was so warm and thoughtful (small touches like telling my mom and sister and I to "take care of each other"). We received a copy of his military records from the VA and are working through what to do there, but he was cremated so the headstone idea is moot.

She will receive her own benefit plus about $1000 - ending up with a monthly amount that matches his benefit. And she will receive $255.
2. Social Security - I honestly can't remember what we did so it must have been pretty easy.
Thank you both. Unfortunately, our experience with SS has been a nightmare. My sister and I keep calling, often having to wait one hour+ to reach a representative, and then the people we speak with have told us that there is no way to do it online, and that the only way to do it is to schedule an appointment to do it over the phone, but they don't currently have any open appointments for the rest of the year, and that we should call back in 10 days. Rinse repeat several times already with no progress. This week an agent seemed to take sympathy and told us she would make a note that we have called several times and get back to us, but nothing.

They also told us that the benefits will not be retroactive. Seems unfair that my Mom should have several months of the lesser benefits because SS can't process this automatically or have open appointments in a timely manner. It's already been almost two months since my dad passed.

Any suggestions? We are thinking about contacting our local politicians or Congressman to ask for assistance.

On a positive note, we have located the marriage certificate they told us we need, so we should be ready to go once we have the appointment.
Don't worry about the life insurance. The insurance company will pay interest from the date of death.
We finally received the claim form package in the mail. We just completed and returned it, so will see how long it takes the insurance company to process a check. I'll be curious if there is any interest on it. Not holding my breath.
Consider the potential tax brackets for 2022 and 2023. 2022 may be filed Married filing jointly, whereas 2023 will be single. In my families case, I made efforts to bring in as much income into the year of spouse's death such as RMD, Annuity income, so that it would be taxed at a lower rate. The following year, the surviving spouse was in a higher bracket and also subject to IRMAA Medicare surcharge.
Good point, thank you. I had not thought of that.

What is the IRMAA medicare charge exactly?

Also related question: How are life insurance proceeds treated for tax purposes? Is this something we have to note on my mom's (well I guess my parents' final) tax return next year?
Several things you mention with respect to I bonds are not correct.
- Treasury Direct accounts do not have beneficiaries. Securities have registrations. With respect to I bonds held at Treasury Direct, they are registered to an owner with potentially a secondary owner or beneficiary. This is on an individual bond basis.
- when your father bought gift bonds, he registered them and they were immediately owned by the owner he registered them to, regardless of whether he delivered them yet. So those gift bonds your dad bought belong to someone and TD can help move them to another account.
- if you bought I bonds as gifts for him that you haven’t delivered, you would have registered them to him and they will be in your gift box. If you registered them with a secondary owner or beneficiary, they belong to that person and TD can help move them. If they were registered without a secondary owner or beneficiary, they are in your father’s estate.
Thank you! After doing a little more digging, here is what we uncovered. For the $20,000 of I-bonds (10K purchased in 2021, 10K earlier this year) he purchased, I was the second owner. I have spoken with Treasury Direct and they told me to complete a 5411 form, which I did, and am waiting for TD to move those two sets of I-bonds into my TD account. My understanding is that these will cleanly be mine, essentially seamlessly, and I'll be responsible for taxes on them whenever I redeem them, etc. So basically as if I had purchased them myself.

For the $20,000 of I-bonds that my dad had purchased as gifts, these were registered in my mom's name. The TD person I spoke with said my mom should also complete a 5411 form and that these will be transferred to her TD account and that it should be pretty easy/seamless, and that these will be cleanly her I Bonds. The gifts will be delivered now, despite the fact that my mom had already purchased her $10,000 I-bond allotment in 2022. Only problem here is we need to bring my mom to a bank for the signature verification thing, so I haven't done that yet but will do so soon.

My mom had also purchased $20,000 worth of I-bond gifts registered in my dad's name. We didn't know we could register these gift purchases with a secondary owner or beneficiary. So these are in my mom's TD account as gift's to my now-deceased father. Any thoughts on how we should handle these? Can we add a secondary owner now or is it too late? And, for myself, is there a way to amend gift purchases (for gifts I purchased for my sister, I'd like to add my mom as a secondary owner)?

Unfortunately, I didn't ask this to the TD rep when I spoke to her--We didn't realize it until after the call when I logged into my mom's account with her. There was an approximate 90 minute wait to speak to the TD rep, so I haven't had a chance to call them back yet.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
w5000
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by w5000 »

With respect to Fidelity and SS, our experience has been the opposite of yours.

With SS, I think my mother might have spent an hour on the phone with them, but it was all taken care of. I know the funeral home reported my father's death to SS, but I understand this is standard. My father passed away in mid-September, and SS paid the $255 death benefit within like 5 days, and also didn't pay his SS later that month (so my mother didn't have to return the final payment), and her survivors SS benefit came in October just fine.

With Fidelity, however, we are still waiting for them to transfer my father's IRAs to my mother's accounts and to move their joint taxable brokerage account to an individual account for my mother. I can never reach our Fidelity survivor services representative via phone. Email is better, though she is still not very responsive -- hadn't replied to my last email for a week, so I ended up having to call yet again (and speak with some other representative on the team). Even though we got them the death certificate and other forms like 3 weeks ago, it's still going to be at least another week or two before this gets resolved. And this should have been an easy case since my mother was the sole primary beneficiary on the IRAs!
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Wiggums »

RetiredAL wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:15 pm One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.
+1

Remove your dad from the automobile insurance.
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
Leesbro63
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Leesbro63 »

I would have sent the insurance company forms via Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested or even by overnight mail. If you did not do that, I do suggest that you call the company to confirm that they received it after, maybe, a week out from mailing. Once they admit to having the information, you can be pretty sure you'll be paid within 30 days. Again, as I stated way above, my experience is that insurance companies are not looking to delay or reject legitimate claims on life insurance. This is not like other forms of insurance where there may be exclusions and grey areas. Most are claims for people who have been paying premiums for years and who died. Not much to argue about.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Sandwich »

Novice2020 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:04 am .....
What is the IRMAA medicare charge exactly?

Also related question: How are life insurance proceeds treated for tax purposes? ...

.....
IRMAA stands for "Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amounts" and is the higher Medicare Part B premium that Medicare beneficiaries with "modified adjusted gross income" levels above certain amounts pay. The 2023 premium will be based on the 2021 tax return. Single filers with MAGI over $ 97,000 and Married Filing Jointly filers over $ 194,000 pay a higher Medicare Part B premium.

Life insurance payouts may include interest from the insureds date of death to the actual benefit disbursement date. The interest is considered taxable income and one should receive a 1099 from the insurer.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Kirby2000 »

One additional note on IRS mail forwarding via USPS: the post office might or might not forward refund checks. You might want to proactively ask post the post office and the IRS about what to do in this situation (or search online, given the way telephone hold times are these days), and make any changes in advance of them mailing whatever checks you expect to receive.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by ClaycordJCA »

This Topic is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) Forum.
secondcor521
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by secondcor521 »

Kirby2000 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:44 pm One additional note on IRS mail forwarding via USPS: the post office might or might not forward refund checks. You might want to proactively ask post the post office and the IRS about what to do in this situation (or search online, given the way telephone hold times are these days), and make any changes in advance of them mailing whatever checks you expect to receive.
For an IRS refund check, the proper way to do it is to file a change of address with the IRS. I am fairly certain that the post office will not forward an IRS refund check.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8822
RetiredAL
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by RetiredAL »

Novice2020 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:04 am
Don't worry about the life insurance. The insurance company will pay interest from the date of death.
We finally received the claim form package in the mail. We just completed and returned it, so will see how long it takes the insurance company to process a check. I'll be curious if there is any interest on it. Not holding my breath.
On 12th day after I mailed the packet in, my Dad's insurance payment direct deposited to my checking account. Hopefully yours will proceed as quickly.
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Dottie57 »

RetiredAL wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:18 pm
BobbyB wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:18 pm I'm in a similar situation now -- my father passed away last month, and we're slowly working through all the financial stuff and also thinking that we can avoid probate since everything was joint or TOD/POD to my mother.

I have a question for y'all about this :
HereToLearn wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:13 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:15 pm One item I see for you is to be cautious about not removing your Dad's name from joint banking accounts with his wife too quickly. This is so any checks that come to his name can be easily deposited.
I want to echo the comment above about keeping your father on the joint account. Random checks dribbled in for months, so it was convenient to have the deceased's name on the account.
We had trouble depositing a check made out to both my parents into a joint bank account. The bank teller said that it had to be endorsed by both of them. I don't think we had told the bank yet that my father had passed away. And since we're hoping to not go through probate, there is no appointed executor who can act on behalf of the estate. So how do you deposit a check made solely or jointly to a deceased person without their endorsement?
That's a concerning thought. Thanks for the heads up.

This may be state specific. For 50+ years, I've deposited checks made out to DW by marking them as "for deposit to acct xxxyyyzzz", which our joint account, and never have had an issue. My understanding has always been that since it's deposited to an account she is named on, endorsement is not required. I mark them this way to prevent someone else trying to deposit it to their account if stolen/misplaced, ect before the actual deposit is made.

About a year ago, I made a single deposit of 2 Dad checks, both from the US Treasury, inside (not the ATM) that totaled $120K, and the bank did not say boo!

I am joint on my Dad's Bank Accounts. In reviewing the account status with our banker about 5 months ago, specifically relating to the continuation of this checking account after he passes, the banker indicated the only issue of concern would with a house sale check made out the "Dad Trust" and that a "Dad Trust" account should be made yo accept it.

Calif has an abbreviated affidavit process for estates under $150K, where an executor files and gets named, but does not require a formal probate. Anything in a Trust or with TOD/POD is not included in the decedent's estate for probate purposes.

I will specifically ask this to my Dad's lawyer when I meet with him next Monday.
The bank account owned by the trust is a big deal when selling items owned by the trust. When selling my condo, the check for proceeds was issued to my trust and the closer had made sure I had a bank account so titled.
Dottie57
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by Dottie57 »

bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:05 pm
Novice2020 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:13 pm ...
Life insurance--Very difficult so far. They promised us they would mail us paperwork to complete; it still hasn't arrived. We called again earlier today and they said they are going to e-mail it to us. I'm starting to get frustrated about this and sensing the insurance company is doing this just to hang onto the money longer and earn interest, etc...I am going to be aggressive on this next week if we still don't have any progress.
...
Other miscellaneous things: ... Similarly, the house was in both their names, so I guess we should probably update the deed to remove his name? We've also started changing my mom's accounts with her permission, which listed him as her beneficiary, to change it to me and my sister.
...
Don't worry about the life insurance. The insurance company will pay interest from the date of death.

If your father signs a new deed, how will he get it to you? Fortunately, if they owned it jointly, it became your mother's upon your father's death.

Unless the amount involved is sufficiently small, it's generally better not to name beneficiaries on taxable accounts. Instead, your mother could provide for you and your sister (in her Will) for you and your sister to inherit in separate trusts that you each control, rather than outright. That will keep your inheritances out of your estates for estate tax purposes, and protect your inheritances from your creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.
Isn’t the protection dependent on state and type of trust?
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Re: Advice on Death of a Parent

Post by bsteiner »

Dottie57 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:13 am
bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:05 pm ...

Don't worry about the life insurance. The insurance company will pay interest from the date of death.

If your father signs a new deed, how will he get it to you? Fortunately, if they owned it jointly, it became your mother's upon your father's death.

Unless the amount involved is sufficiently small, it's generally better not to name beneficiaries on taxable accounts. Instead, your mother could provide for you and your sister (in her Will) for you and your sister to inherit in separate trusts that you each control, rather than outright. That will keep your inheritances out of your estates for estate tax purposes, and protect your inheritances from your creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.
Isn’t the protection dependent on state and type of trust?
No. Mother doesn't have to provide for child at all. So if mother's Will provides for child in trust, child's inheritance is protected.

This assumes that there are no mandatory distributions, but a well-drafted Will generally won't mandate (or limit) distributions.
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