Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

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Tulip
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Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

Vanguard has been pestering me about switching my Mutual Fund Accounts (held by The Vanguard Group, Inc) to a Vanguard Brokerage Account (held by Vanguard Brokerage Services, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation). I'm not interested in what the brokerage account has to offer, so I haven't made the change.

Can Vanguard eventually automatically change you over? Or will they have to allow those of us who want to remain, be left in place?
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by rkhusky »

Tulip wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 2:11 pm Can Vanguard eventually automatically change you over? Or will they have to allow those of us who want to remain, be left in place?
Time will tell. No one knows what steps Vanguard will take.
nalor511
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by nalor511 »

The've started taking some thing away from MF-only customers (like the Foreign Tax Paid statement). Converting to brokerage couldn't have gone smoother... did it about a year ago. Seems like an easy decision now that they've worked out most of the kinks
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by sycamore »

The brokerage account requires you to sign a new legal agreement. Vanguard can't forge your signature or anything like that.

They might conceivably do something like outsource the custodial aspect of mutual fund accounts to another company. Or charge fees for using such an account. Or otherwise make it "uncomfortable" for you to keep your mutual fund account.

Who knows what will happen. Right now there's just speculation, although we've previously heard "FUD" reports that Vanguard CS reps said the conversion was going to happen absolutely for sure no doubt about it by mid 2022. My speculation is that mutual fund only accounts will be around for a while.

I converted my accounts years ago and was happy about it. My spouse's accounts remain unconverted. We are not concerned about it.
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retired@50
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

Vanguard has a PDF from April, 2022 that discusses the change over to a brokerage account.

See link: https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf

I don't know if it's inevitable or not, but I do know that it's nothing to fear. I made the switch in 2020 and have been happy with the result.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by mkc »

If you have anyone listed with Full Agent Authorization on your account, there is a high likelihood you will need to resubmit new (notarized) authorization post-transition.

Other levels of agent authorization can be done online, but Full Agent requires a notarized form.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

It would be interesting to know the differences between how the funds in each service are actually managed and held: The Vanguard Group, Inc (Mutual Fund Accounts) vs Vanguard Brokerage Services - a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation (Vanguard Brokerage Account). I sense that Vanguard may have a lot more direct control of Brokerage Account funds than of the Mutual Fund Accounts...
Last edited by Tulip on Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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retired@50
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

Tulip wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:18 pm
sycamore wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:03 pm The brokerage account requires you to sign a new legal agreement. Vanguard can't forge your signature or anything like that.

They might conceivably do something like outsource the custodial aspect of mutual fund accounts to another company. Or charge fees for using such an account. Or otherwise make it "uncomfortable" for you to keep your mutual fund account.
Yes, this is my sense of the situation as well.

It would be interesting to know the differences between how the funds in each service are actually managed and held: The Vanguard Group, Inc (Mutual Fund Accounts) vs Vanguard Brokerage Services - a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation (Vanguard Brokerage Account). I sense that Vanguard may have a lot more direct control of Brokerage Account funds than of the Mutual Fund Accounts...
The mutual fund assets are held by custodian banks. This is true whether you use a mutual fund account or a brokerage account.

For example, JPMorgan Chase bank holds the assets for the Total Stock Market Fund, among others.
From the SAI
Service Providers
Custodians. JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., 383 Madison Avenue, New York, NY 10179 (for Vanguard Extended Market
Index, Mid-Cap Index, Mid-Cap Growth Index, Mid-Cap Value Index, Small-Cap Index, Small-Cap Growth Index,
Small-Cap Value Index, and Total Stock Market Index Funds), State Street Bank and Trust Company, One Lincoln
Street, Boston, MA 02111 (for Vanguard 500 Index Fund), and Bank of New York Mellon, 240 Greenwich Street, New
York, NY 10286 (for Vanguard Growth Index, Value Index, and Large-Cap Index Funds). The custodians are responsible
for maintaining the Funds’ assets, keeping all necessary accounts and records of Fund assets, and appointing any
foreign subcustodians or foreign securities depositories.
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Silk McCue »

Welcome to Bogleheads with your first post since joining more than nine years ago on “Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:11 pm”.

I made the switch years ago. It is an easy process.

Cheers
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Gort »

Tulip wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 2:11 pm Vanguard has been pestering me about switching my Mutual Fund Accounts (held by The Vanguard Group, Inc) to a Vanguard Brokerage Account (held by Vanguard Brokerage Services, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation). I'm not interested in what the brokerage account has to offer, so I haven't made the change.

Can Vanguard eventually automatically change you over? Or will they have to allow those of us who want to remain, be left in place?
Make the switch. It's easy. A little bit different user interface but very easy to navigate.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by vxdx »

I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

Thanks for sharing all your opinions.

[OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] I’ve become skeptical of Vanguard ever since Bogle’s passing.

I’m in no hurry to make the switch to the brokerage system. And I sense Mutual Fund Accounts will be around for some time…
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by 100factorial »

vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point.
Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point.
Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
What led you to this conclusion? ^^^

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Oicuryy »

Tulip wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:18 pm It would be interesting to know the differences between how the funds in each service are actually managed and held: The Vanguard Group, Inc (Mutual Fund Accounts) vs Vanguard Brokerage Services - a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation (Vanguard Brokerage Account). I sense that Vanguard may have a lot more direct control of Brokerage Account funds than of the Mutual Fund Accounts...
You could look up the difference between transfer agent and broker. Vanguard Group Inc. (VGI) is the transfer agent for the Vanguard mutual funds. VGI is also the investment manager of some of the Vanguard funds. Vanguard Marketing Corp. (VMC) is the distributor of the Vanguard mutual funds. Vanguard Brokerage Services(VBS) is a broker.

I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is no. A broker cannot change the transfer agent's record of the ownership of your shares without your permission. If they could, some broker would have taken our shares long ago. I have not done it, but I suspect it only takes a click or two on Vanguard's web site to give permission.

Ron
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by backpacker61 »

I began at Vanguard with a mutual fund account ~33 years ago, but I have a brokerage account now. I participate in the ESPP and receive RSU's from my employer, and I like being able to transfer shares of my employer's stock to my Vanguard Brokerage Account where I have most of my other long term savings.
Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:27 am I’ve become skeptical of Vanguard ever since Bogle’s passing.
If I was skeptical of any of the financial service providers I use, I would cut and run. I changed banks about ten years ago because I didn't like the direction they were going (Bank of America).

There are so many excellent choices among financial services providers these days (and I consider Vanguard to be one of the best); why stay anywhere that you don't feel good about?
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Gort »

100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point.
Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
No.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by jebmke »

nalor511 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:00 pm The've started taking some thing away from MF-only customers (like the Foreign Tax Paid statement). Converting to brokerage couldn't have gone smoother... did it about a year ago. Seems like an easy decision now that they've worked out most of the kinks
I converted my IRA, my Roth IRA and my taxable holdings to brokerage a few years ago. Our joint account is still MF. I haven't run into anything that I can do in MF that I can't do in the brokerage account (our transactions are pretty simple - mostly exchanges and bank transfer). I think the tax reporting on brokerage is better - one set of entries rather than one for each fund.

The MF account does show the foreign tax paid. What it no longer shows is the foreign sourced income which one needs to complete form 1116. But the information is available from VG through another means.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by 100factorial »

retired@50 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:40 am
What led you to this conclusion? ^^^

Regards,
Brokerage account assets, held in street name, and sitting on the brokerage firm's balance sheet, would likely be quite safe due to various regulations and SIPC insurance, but (thinking in terms of tail risks) would not be entirely safe. By contrast mutual fund assets held in bank custody would be remote from Vanguard creditors. Here are a couple of references that may be helpful in clarifying the distinction:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history

Regards, 100
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:56 pm
retired@50 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:40 am
What led you to this conclusion? ^^^

Regards,
Brokerage account assets, held in street name, and sitting on the brokerage firm's balance sheet, would likely be quite safe due to various regulations and SIPC insurance, but (thinking in terms of tail risks) would not be entirely safe. By contrast mutual fund assets held in bank custody would be remote from Vanguard creditors. Here are a couple of references that may be helpful in clarifying the distinction:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history

Regards, 100
Thanks for the article links.

So, if one uses mutual funds, which in turn, use custodial banks to house the mutual fund's securities, there doesn't appear to be any difference in risk whether one uses a "mutual fund only" account or a "brokerage account" at Vanguard....

Do I have that correct?

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
Interesting. And thank you for the clarifying references:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history
Last edited by Tulip on Sat May 28, 2022 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Nate79 »

Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:01 pm
100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
Yes, well stated. And thank you for the clarifying references:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history
No, this is false.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

Nate79 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:29 pm
Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:01 pm
100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
Yes, well stated. And thank you for the clarifying references:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history
No, this is false.
My understanding of the above articles is as follows...

If I have a $1 million in a Vanguard account in mutual funds, then it doesn't matter if I use a "mutual fund only" account or a "brokerage" account, because all mutual fund investors are protected by the fact that the mutual fund's assets are being held at a custodial bank, like JPMorgan Chase as I noted in one of my earlier posts.

However, if I'm holding $1 million in individual stocks in "street name" as mentioned above by 100factorial, then I'm holding more dollar value than SIPC insurance covers directly ($500,000), so I could be at some additional risk if the Vanguard brokerage somehow goes bankrupt.

So, for mutual fund investors (and this presumably includes Vanguard ETFs) there is no additional risk being taken by using a brokerage account instead of the old mutual fund only account.

Anyone, please feel free to post corrections if I'm mistaken.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
100factorial
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by 100factorial »

Good points. When Vanguard mutual fund positions are held within a Vanguard brokerage account, how are they registered? Are they effectively registered "in street name" (as with individual stocks) or are they registered directly in the name of the client? Regards, 100
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by criticalmass »

vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch. How do I do that? If not, I am not interested in switching anything.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by criticalmass »

Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:27 am Thanks for sharing all your opinions.

[OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] I’ve become skeptical of Vanguard ever since Bogle’s passing.

I’m in no hurry to make the switch to the brokerage system. And I sense Mutual Fund Accounts will be around for some time…
J. Bogle was not involved with Vanguard operations or decision making for about two decades before his death; how did his passing cause you to become skeptical? I've been skeptical since they wrongly insisted they didn't miscalculate my 1099 forms sent to IRS....
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

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retired@50 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:42 pm
Nate79 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:29 pm
Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:01 pm
100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:35 am Simply put, brokerage assets are at risk if Vanguard runs into financial problems whereas mutual fund assets are not.
Yes, well stated. And thank you for the clarifying references:

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

https://www.sipc.org/about-sipc/history
No, this is false.
My understanding of the above articles is as follows...

If I have a $1 million in a Vanguard account in mutual funds, then it doesn't matter if I use a "mutual fund only" account or a "brokerage" account, because all mutual fund investors are protected by the fact that the mutual fund's assets are being held at a custodial bank, like JPMorgan Chase as I noted in one of my earlier posts.

However, if I'm holding $1 million in individual stocks in "street name" as mentioned above by 100factorial, then I'm holding more dollar value than SIPC insurance covers directly ($500,000), so I could be at some additional risk if the Vanguard brokerage somehow goes bankrupt.

So, for mutual fund investors (and this presumably includes Vanguard ETFs) there is no additional risk being taken by using a brokerage account instead of the old mutual fund only account.

Anyone, please feel free to post corrections if I'm mistaken.

Regards,
No, assets held at brokerages such as ETFs, mutual funds, etc are not accessible to the creditors of the brokerage, they are segregated. That is not what SPIC is for. This has been discussed extensively in the past on here. Here is one example:

viewtopic.php?t=258813

And here:
viewtopic.php?t=20582
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by retired@50 »

100factorial wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:58 pm Good points. When Vanguard mutual fund positions are held within a Vanguard brokerage account, how are they registered? Are they effectively registered "in street name" (as with individual stocks) or are they registered directly in the name of the client? Regards, 100
My brokerage account is registered like this... "John Q. Public" - Brokerage Account - 12345678

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
100factorial
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by 100factorial »

Nate79 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:20 pm
No, assets held at brokerages such as ETFs, mutual funds, etc are not accessible to the creditors of the brokerage, they are segregated. That is not what SPIC is for.
Hey Nate79, thanks for the references. I thought that comingling has historically been one of the principal tail risks. Perhaps that risk can be partially mitigated by a strong management team. Referring back to one of my earlier references:

"When assets are held in street name, they are often used for a variety of brokerage activities and are potentially subject to seizure by creditors in the event of the brokerage firm’s insolvency."

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/plan ... stody.html

Is that more applicable to individual stocks and less to mutual funds and ETFs held in brokerage?

Regards, 100
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

Quotation from Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement (https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/v718.pdf):

As security for the repayment of all present or future indebtedness owed to Us by each Account Owner, each Account Owner grants to Us a first, perfected, and prior lien on, a continuing security interest in, and right of set-off with respect to, all Securities and Other Property that is, now or in the future, held, carried, or maintained for any purpose in or through VBS, and, to the extent of such Account Owner’s interest in or through, any present or future account with Us or Our affiliates in which the Account Owner has an interest. VBS may rehypothecate any Securities or Other Property held, carried, maintained, or in the possession and control of VBS.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by nalor511 »

criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch. How do I do that? If not, I am not interested in switching anything.
Dividends cannot be directed like that in brokerage, but I don't miss it (even though I was using it before the switch, I've adapted to life without it). My brokerage 1099 is itemized by fund. There's a total, but you can also see how much broken out to each fund
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Northern Flicker »

Tulip wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:27 am Thanks for sharing all your opinions.

[OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] I’ve become skeptical of Vanguard ever since Bogle’s passing.

I’m in no hurry to make the switch to the brokerage system. And I sense Mutual Fund Accounts will be around for some time…
If enough people make the switch, Vanguard will be able to retire the software system and other infrastructure that supports the mutual fund only platform. This will reduce Vanguard’s costs, which benefits all Vanguard customers.

I believe that the only downside of any significance of the switch is that in the brokerage account, you can only direct distributions to the fund that generated them or to the settlement account, which is the Federal Money Market Account, from where they can be transmitted to a bank account. The process of having distributions routed automatically to a bank account also is different.

The direct benefits of the change are being able to hold mutual funds, ETFs (and theoretically other marketable securities) in one account, and not having a minimum balance requirement for the Federal Money Market Fund.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by criticalmass »

nalor511 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:58 pm
criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch. How do I do that? If not, I am not interested in switching anything.
Dividends cannot be directed like that in brokerage, but I don't miss it (even though I was using it before the switch, I've adapted to life without it). My brokerage 1099 is itemized by fund. There's a total, but you can also see how much broken out to each fund
Good news about the fund itemization (needed to calculate the US obligations amounts by fund percentages), but I am not interested in converting if the dividend purchasing is not available. I don't see any advantage to converting. If Vanguard converts me, c'est la vie, but I have no need to initiate it.

Hopefully employer direct deposit to my favorite fund is still available with the brokerage account, if they ever force a conversion.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by jebmke »

criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch. How do I do that? If not, I am not interested in switching anything.
My 1099 for the brokerage account lists all the disributions by fund. Always has. Every brokerage account at any institution brought to me by clients has had the same detail by holding.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by jebmke »

Over time they will cripple the MF platform more and more. That is one strategy for system transition if you don’t have a viable way to do a clean cut. I’ve done it both ways. Clean cut is almost always preferable but sometimes not feasible.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Blues »

I made the change voluntarily a week or two back as I wanted to be able to add treasuries and brokered CDs to the portfolio and I didn't want to make the purchases with our tax advantaged accounts which already had the brokerage rights for some time.

I checked to make sure that all the shares and values were correct after the changeover, and it was fine...easy peasy.

Now, I'm almost sorry I hadn't done it earlier rather than agonizing over when they might make the change mandatory.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by ee_guy »

criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm
vxdx wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm I can’t imagine why one wouldn’t want to switch at this point. It’s clear they don’t want to support the old platform so staying would only expose you to more issues and difficult support situations.
If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch. How do I do that? If not, I am not interested in switching anything.
Having this feature allows an investor to take a RMD and move the investment from a IRA to an investment account without being out of the market for one day.

As recent history shows, being out of the market for one day can result in big losses (or gains). [SP500 gained 2.5% on 5/27] I prefer not to be out of the market for even one day. Of course, money have to be available for income taxes.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by prd1982 »

ee_guy wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:03 am
Having this feature allows an investor to take a RMD and move the investment from a IRA to an investment account without being out of the market for one day.

As recent history shows, being out of the market for one day can result in big losses (or gains). [SP500 gained 2.5% on 5/27] I prefer not to be out of the market for even one day. Of course, money have to be available for income taxes.
So, assuming you are 80 years old, where the RMD percentage is 5%, that means you lost out on.025 * .05, or 0.125% of the gain. And this is before you redirect a portion of the RMD to taxes or other spending purposes.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Big Dog »

eventually, they'll have to give you the option to change over or leave. There is no way they will keep a few old back-end servers running for what some day will be only a few thousand accounts. Just not economic to keep them up.

I switched over a couple of years ago and its fine.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by ruralavalon »

Tulip wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 2:11 pm Vanguard has been pestering me about switching my Mutual Fund Accounts (held by The Vanguard Group, Inc) to a Vanguard Brokerage Account (held by Vanguard Brokerage Services, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation). I'm not interested in what the brokerage account has to offer, so I haven't made the change.

Can Vanguard eventually automatically change you over? Or will they have to allow those of us who want to remain, be left in place?
We finally made the switch a few years ago, after any bugs had been fixed.

Everything went smoothly. We had to specifically ask that our full agent authorizations be carried over without signing new forms, and I was disappointed that we could no longer have distributions from one fund automatically reinvested in a different fund. Otherwise we had no issues at all with the brokerage accounts.

No, they cannot automatically switch you over without your consent.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Tulip »

ruralavalon wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:32 am We had to specifically ask that our full agent authorizations be carried over without signing new forms
Would you please elaborate on how you did the above? Thanks!
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by mkc »

Tulip wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:13 am
ruralavalon wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:32 am We had to specifically ask that our full agent authorizations be carried over without signing new forms
Would you please elaborate on how you did the above? Thanks!
Yes, please.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Blues »

Tulip wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:13 am
ruralavalon wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:32 am We had to specifically ask that our full agent authorizations be carried over without signing new forms
Would you please elaborate on how you did the above? Thanks!
I'm not ruralavalon, so forgive my response, but I mentioned to the rep I had on the phone that I had authorization to act as an agent on behalf of my wife's accounts as well as our joint accounts. He looked it up and saw that I had filed the proper paperwork in the past, and I received a confirmation on the site and via email...as well as letters sent to both myself and my wife received yesterday confirming same. (We converted over in the past week or two.)

I did not have to resubmit any authorization.

I also confirmed, following the switch, that share balances, basis, linked bank accounts, etc. were all correct...and they were.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by telemark »

Converting to a brokerage account means opening a new account in your name and transferring your funds to it. Vanguard cannot legally do that without your permission even though Wells Fargo did a lot of it a few years ago.

Is there a reason the new platform can't support mutual fund only accounts? They are quite straightforward compared to everything a brokerage needs to deal with.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by ruralavalon »

Tulip wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:13 am
ruralavalon wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:32 am We had to specifically ask that our full agent authorizations be carried over without signing new forms
Would you please elaborate on how you did the above? Thanks!
At the time we switched accounts I asked to have the full agent authorizations carried over. They did.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by talzara »

criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch.
nalor511 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:58 pm My brokerage 1099 is itemized by fund. There's a total, but you can also see how much broken out to each fund
jebmke wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:37 am My 1099 for the brokerage account lists all the disributions by fund. Always has. Every brokerage account at any institution brought to me by clients has had the same detail by holding.
On Vanguard's brokerage 1099, the Detail for Dividends and Distributions lists all distributions for each mutual fund, including dividends, short-term capital gains, and long-term capital gains. If you need the Box 1a amount (dividends and short-term capital gains), you'll have to add it up yourself.

Vanguard's mutual fund 1099 reports Box 1a for each mutual fund. You don't have to do any math.

There were several threads about this during tax season. Many people switched to brokerage accounts and didn't know how to calculate the Box 1a number for each mutual fund.
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by nalor511 »

talzara wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:08 pm
criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch.
nalor511 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:58 pm My brokerage 1099 is itemized by fund. There's a total, but you can also see how much broken out to each fund
jebmke wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:37 am My 1099 for the brokerage account lists all the disributions by fund. Always has. Every brokerage account at any institution brought to me by clients has had the same detail by holding.
On Vanguard's brokerage 1099, the Detail for Dividends and Distributions lists all distributions for each mutual fund, including dividends, short-term capital gains, and long-term capital gains. If you need the Box 1a amount (dividends and short-term capital gains), you'll have to add it up yourself.

Vanguard's mutual fund 1099 reports Box 1a for each mutual fund. You don't have to do any math.

There were several threads about this during tax season. Many people switched to brokerage accounts and didn't know how to calculate the Box 1a number for each mutual fund.
Noted. The data is still there to get what you want, even if it's more annoying
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by jebmke »

talzara wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:08 pm Many people switched to brokerage accounts and didn't know how to calculate the Box 1a number for each mutual fund.
What is that used for - I can't recall ever needing it for specific funds?
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by Blues »

On Vanguard's brokerage 1099, the Detail for Dividends and Distributions lists all distributions for each mutual fund, including dividends, short-term capital gains, and long-term capital gains. If you need the Box 1a amount (dividends and short-term capital gains), you'll have to add it up yourself.

Vanguard's mutual fund 1099 reports Box 1a for each mutual fund. You don't have to do any math.

There were several threads about this during tax season. Many people switched to brokerage accounts and didn't know how to calculate the Box 1a number for each mutual fund.
@talzara

Do you have links for any of these discussions?
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Re: Moving Vanguard Funds to Brokerage Account?

Post by talzara »

jebmke wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:35 pm
talzara wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:08 pm Many people switched to brokerage accounts and didn't know how to calculate the Box 1a number for each mutual fund.
What is that used for - I can't recall ever needing it for specific funds?
The person who asked about it on this thread needed it for US government obligations, which are exempt from state taxes. It's also needed for the foreign tax credit when filing form 1116.
criticalmass wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:14 pm If you can tell me how to send dividends from one fund in brokerage account to purchase shares in another fund, AND if you can tell me how to get a 1099 in the brokerage account itemized by funds (for US treasury portions for state tax reporting purposes), then I would want to switch.
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