Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

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suemarkp
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Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by suemarkp »

A bit of a long story but here goes... Questions at the end.

I had a case of fraudulent charges on my Cap One VISA card at the end of March. Cap One sent me a text of "did you buy this phone for $1100?" and I said no. I then looked at my account and saw the phone charge, a $9.99 charge to Apple, and some $1 charges to Apple and Comcast. I called Cap One, and they removed all of those charges, disabled that card number, and sent me a new card. A week later, I get the new card, activate it, and change my auto billers from the old card number to the new. Mysteriously, Comcast had already changed to the new number because the bill came due during the transition. Cap One must have told them the new number.

After I changed the billers, I looked at my Cap One account. I see two charges to Apple using that new card number so I called Cap One back to report that fraud. They sent those charges to "dispute", we blocked Apple from every charging to the card, and I thought everything was fine. Well, I get a letter a week or so later saying I lost my dispute because of the "terms and conditions on the Apple website". Not sure how that is relevant, since I did not make the purchases, so I think they are confused. I could challenge their dispute by faxing back my rebuttal or sending it in a pre-addressed letter. That pre-addressed letter was not in the envelope, so I had to FAX my rebuttal to them. Not sure if that FAX was legible or ever made it to the proper person.

Now today, I notice a new fraudulent charge from Comcast. It looks just like my recurring internet service charge except it is a few dollars less and it says it is for service in Oregon whereas mine is in WA. So I call Capital One again. The fraud people say it has to be disputed (can't be "fraud removed") because I have a valid recurring charge relationship with Comcast already and I need to dispute it with them. I said that may be difficult, as it wasn't me that made the charge so I have no details. Before calling Cap One, I just changed my legit comcast to a different credit card number, so I told them to block all charges from comcast now too.

So then I called comcast. This was hard because they want the account number of the fraud charge before you get a human. I didn't know it, so I had to use my account to get a human, but they could not see that charge on my account (because it isn't my account that did it), and they searched their web charges for my credit card number and didn't see it there either. They sent me to comcast fraud which was basically useless because they have no access to credit card info, only comcast account numbers, street addresses, etc. Since I didn't know where this new service was (other than somewhere in Oregon), they couldn't help.

So I'm at my wits end with Capital One. They are pointing to comcast, and comcast is pointing to capital one. I'm going to freeze the card, pay it off, and then close the card. So far, I'm out about $110 in fraud charges unless my dispute loss rebuttal ever comes through. I don't see a way to recover the comcast charge.

So questions:
Am I not using correct terms when I talk to the fraud people (there seems to be differences between "fraud" and "dispute", but I told them fraud initially in all discussions)?
Any suggestions for what to do help get my money back?

If I get no positive resolution, I'm pulling everything out of Capital One and not going back.
Last edited by suemarkp on Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
nydoc
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by nydoc »

State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
JBTX
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by JBTX »

Concur on CFPB.

A rude awakening one can get is when they cancel /replace a credit card with a new one with a new number often recurring charges show up on new card also. It is a service they often provide for continuity with vendors. The only way to truly avoid it is to cancel the card completely. Disputing a charge essentially just puts a hold on the charge and flags it to the vendor, but if vendor says it’s legit then you likely lose. A fraudulent charge is from a vendor in which you have no business relationship.
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Nate79
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Nate79 »

I dont know how to help on the existing issue but I would close the card and not open a new one with Capital One. That sounds like a mess.
augustwest73
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by augustwest73 »

ditto to the above. We kept having this same issue with Chase for two years with multiple replacement cards and finally just canceled the card and switched to another main card.
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greg24
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by greg24 »

I've heard nothing but terrible things about Capitol One.
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Jazztonight
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Jazztonight »

greg24 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:37 am I've heard nothing but terrible things about Capitol One.
Yesterday I had lunch with a friend at a sushi restaurant, and although we split the bill we each gave a "large" tip, $6 each, for our lunches.

This morning I got an email from CapitalOne asking me if I'd really meant to give a 36% tip for lunch at the restaurant.

I'd say that even though it was a canned/automatic notification, they are certainly attempting to provide care and financial oversight. I use the card all the time, and am happy enough with their rebate and services (no international fee, etc.). No financial institution is perfect.
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abc132
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by abc132 »

I would say you need to be more proactive and also find the right person.

From what you have told us, your issue is with Comcast, who is telling CapOne that this is a valid recurring charge. You need to get that resolved with Comcast, and then send proof that the recurring charge is not for you to CapOne. Expect a dozen tries, being persistent will pay off. Ask for a manager after a few tries with Comcast fail. Get an issue # so all of your calls and comments go to the same file.

Best of Luck!
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KlingKlang
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by KlingKlang »

I had a not dissimilar experience with Capital One. An online vendor that I had used for several years informed me that their customer accounts had been hacked. The next month a $19.95 charge for Netflix showed up on my CO account. I have never had an account with Netflix. Capital One reversed the charge, cancelled the old card, and issued me a new card.. The next month they reinstituted the charge on the new card. Called CO customer service, was told they couldn't change the charge because my old card had been cancelled. Netflix couldn't do anything because they had never heard of me. After two more calls to CO with no progress I just cut my losses and cancelled the account.
Agent 99
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Agent 99 »

Regarding fraudulent charges on replacement cards make sure the account is not set up for automatic linking to an Apple Pay or similar account. This happened to my uncle. I was his POA. The bank told me that one has to disable that option. He didn’t have it set up but the perps did it when they hacked the first card.
BanquetBeer
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by BanquetBeer »

Capital one specific issue. I had to cancel my card with a negative balance, write them a stern letter with a law firm heading, and they finally agreed to drop the charges.

Was traveling internationally. Bought train tickets, had to pay to print them (verbal interaction) the ticket person put the wrong day. I noticed immediately and asked for a correction “sorry no refunds”. It was like $20 so I just figured I’d dispute when I got back home.

Capital one is terrible. Haven’t had one of their cards since. Not to mention their low credit limits (like half my other cards). Had to prepay the card to cover some of my trip expenses…
SchruteB&B
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by SchruteB&B »

nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Call Cap One. Explain firmly that they are flagging and removing all of the disputed charges as fraud and closing your card or you are immediately reporting them to the Consumer Financial Protection Board. Ask for a supervisor if the initial customer service agent seems unconcerned. If they won’t remove the charges, get the name of the supervisor, and inform them that they are being personally named in your CFPB complaint.
scguy613
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by scguy613 »

Apple charges my AMEX $0.99 every month because I increased my iCloud storage. My charge is valid.
SpaethCo
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by SpaethCo »

I believe you may have to follow the process on page 2 of your statement under the "Billing Rights Summary" section, as this preserves your legal protections in this dispute.
What To Do If You Think You Find A Mistake On Your Statement: If you think there is an error on your statement, write to us at:
P.O. Box 30285, Salt Lake City, UT 84130-0285.
It's annoying, but if you don't proceed with this step you are agreeing to the following:
You must contact us within 60 days after the error appeared on your statement. You must notify us of any potential errors in writing. You may call us or notify us electronically, but if you do we are not required to investigate any potential errors and you may have to pay the amount in question.
ekid
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by ekid »

nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Bet they won't even acknowlege the call. (well, the CFPB will)
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ResearchMed
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by ResearchMed »

SchruteB&B wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:53 am
nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Call Cap One. Explain firmly that they are flagging and removing all of the disputed charges as fraud and closing your card or you are immediately reporting them to the Consumer Financial Protection Board. Ask for a supervisor if the initial customer service agent seems unconcerned. If they won’t remove the charges, get the name of the supervisor, and inform them that they are being personally named in your CFPB complaint.

I had found that whenever I asked for the name of the phone rep, it tended to be after some sort of tension developed, and often there then was a ... "click!"

So now I start almost every phone call to some vendor with, "Oh... and could I have your name or phone extension in case we get cut off so I won't have to start over again with someone else?" :wink:

And I do the same if transferred.

RM
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abc132
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by abc132 »

BanquetBeer wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:51 am Capital one specific issue. I had to cancel my card with a negative balance, write them a stern letter with a law firm heading, and they finally agreed to drop the charges.

Was traveling internationally. Bought train tickets, had to pay to print them (verbal interaction) the ticket person put the wrong day. I noticed immediately and asked for a correction “sorry no refunds”. It was like $20 so I just figured I’d dispute when I got back home.

Capital one is terrible. Haven’t had one of their cards since. Not to mention their low credit limits (like half my other cards). Had to prepay the card to cover some of my trip expenses…
I'm sorry for your poor experience.

I'm curious how you think a company could distinguish reimbursing you from someone that bought two tickets and decided they would just dispute whichever one they did not use. The other side of the coin is whether you actually provided proof of a fraudulent charge.

With regards to the OP, that is what they still need to do - produce the needed proof in written form. The information they need to produce is owned by Comcast. They could also go with the cancel the card route.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by SchruteB&B »

ekid wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:09 pm
nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Bet they won't even acknowlege the call. (well, the CFPB will)
CFPB will allow you to make the complaint online. The company I complained about to CFPB called me two weeks after I made the online complaint and resolved the entire matter exactly as I had requested.
ekid
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by ekid »

SchruteB&B wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:38 pm
ekid wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:09 pm
nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Bet they won't even acknowlege the call. (well, the CFPB will)
CFPB will allow you to make the complaint online. The company I complained about to CFPB called me two weeks after I made the online complaint and resolved the entire matter exactly as I had requested.
I misunderstood the original post. My Indiana Attorney General office would not acknowlege my complaint- NY might be different.
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

Then again, there’s this systematic survey that ranks credit card consumer satisfaction. Difficult to be objective about this, but I agree with those who say it may be best to close the account just to put this chapter behind you.
Turbo29
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Turbo29 »

:wink:
SpaethCo wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:06 pm

It's annoying, but if you don't proceed with this step you are agreeing to the following:
You must contact us within 60 days after the error appeared on your statement. You must notify us of any potential errors in writing. You may call us or notify us electronically, but if you do we are not required to investigate any potential errors and you may have to pay the amount in question.
This is not just a Capital One thing.

This language is actually in the federal regulations regarding billing errors. I have had problems with other banks in the past. The moment I actually sent them a written correspondence in writing in an envelope with a stamp, they all corrected the error.

Banks make it easy to call them or dispute online because they know they don't have to follow all the rules like they do when you actually notify them in writing.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Newaygo »

I strongly recommend that you visit the consumer advocate site - Elliott Advocacy.

https://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/

You will probably see examples of dealing with Capital One. The site will have the steps to take to self-advocate including who to contact at Capital One (email addresses). When all else fails they may pursue the case with Capital One. Best of luck, document dealings with Capital One by email, and have perseverance.
Last edited by Newaygo on Thu May 19, 2022 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Katietsu
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Katietsu »

Try not to get frustrated. You do not need to get any information from Comcast. Up until now your request is just going along without anyone “investigating” or paying attention to the details. You do need to follow Turbo99’s advice and put it in writing. Specify the date and amount of the Comcast charge. Specify that it was in Oregon and that you have never had service or interaction with Comcast in Oregon. I suspect that no one wants to use resources to actually look at your request until the get it in writing/receive an appeal. Do not be discouraged by the lack of resolution to the request thus far.
criticalmass
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by criticalmass »

SchruteB&B wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:53 am
nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Call Cap One. Explain firmly that they are flagging and removing all of the disputed charges as fraud and closing your card or you are immediately reporting them to the Consumer Financial Protection Board. Ask for a supervisor if the initial customer service agent seems unconcerned. If they won’t remove the charges, get the name of the supervisor, and inform them that they are being personally named in your CFPB complaint.
Do you think that the Capital One outsourced customer support in Nicaragua (occasionally Philippines) will care very much about someone threatening (firmly :)) to report their client to some board in the United States?

Instead, follow the provisions of the Fair Credit Billing Act. It is a powerful law, IF the customer bothers to take the very clear steps in the statue.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by criticalmass »

ekid wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:43 pm
SchruteB&B wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:38 pm
ekid wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:09 pm
nydoc wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 pm State attorney general office and CFPB. Guaranteed call back from these companies within one week.
Bet they won't even acknowlege the call. (well, the CFPB will)
CFPB will allow you to make the complaint online. The company I complained about to CFPB called me two weeks after I made the online complaint and resolved the entire matter exactly as I had requested.
I misunderstood the original post. My Indiana Attorney General office would not acknowlege my complaint- NY might be different.
What did the Indiana OAG representative say to you instead of acknowledging the complaint? That must have been an interesting conversation.
ekid
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by ekid »

Not a conversation. Written correspondence, not responded to.

Can't recommend Indiana as a place to live.
Katietsu
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by Katietsu »

Katietsu wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:23 pm Try not to get frustrated. You do not need to get any information from Comcast. Up until now your request is just going along without anyone “investigating” or paying attention to the details. You do need to follow Turbo99’s advice and put it in writing. Specify the date and amount of the Comcast charge. Specify that it was in Oregon and that you have never had service or interaction with Comcast in Oregon. I suspect that no one wants to use resources to actually look at your request until the get it in writing/receive an appeal. Do not be discouraged by the lack of resolution to the request thus far.
I would actually go further to provide even documentation that you think they should already have. For instance, I would send a copy of the statement with the erroneous charge highlighted. In my experience, the easier you make it for them, the more organized and determined you seem, the better your chance of a positive resolution.
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suemarkp
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by suemarkp »

Finally got this resolved.

First, I tried submitting my issue in writing to the address on the back on the statement for "mistakes on your statement" as advised by SpaethCo and Turbo29. I waited a month after sending that letter and nothing came of it.

So then I filed a complaint on the CFPB website as advised by multiple posters. That was pretty easy as I already had all of the info needed in my previous correspondence and attached that to the complaint too. Amazingly, a week later Capital One credits me with the three charges I complained about and considers the problem resolved (as do I).

Once I spend what was credited to that account, I'm still going to close all my Capital One accounts. They don't deserve my business after all of this incompetence.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by nisiprius »

greg24 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:37 am I've heard nothing but terrible things about Capitol One.
(Shrug) We've had no problems, and we've disputed charges on the account four or five times and gotten an immediate refund every time... and no further communications in the two or three of them when they said they needed to "investigate" the charge and might need to re-impose it.
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TravelforFun
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by TravelforFun »

greg24 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:37 am I've heard nothing but terrible things about Capitol One.
Capital One has a fabulous lounge at DFW Airport. Seriously, I've had a Capital One Venture X card for awhile now and have never had a problem.

TravelforFun
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Re: Capital One Credit Card FRaud Issue

Post by JBTX »

Newaygo wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:00 pm I strongly recommend that you visit the consumer advocate site - Elliott Advocacy.

https://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/

You will probably see examples of dealing with Capital One. The site will have the steps to take to self-advocate including who to contact at Capital One (email addresses). When all else fails they may pursue the case with Capital One. Best of luck, document dealings with Capital One by email, and have perseverance.
Elliot advocacy is excellent. Having said that for financial issues CFPB is best source for resolution. I’ve found Elliot to be very good for mobile phone companies and in one case a hotel travel rewards issue.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by bradinsky »

We’ve had our Capital One cards for about 16 years & they have been great. Absolutely no problems at all. They are easy to deal with & they helped us out on an issue we had with La-Z-Boy. I’m sure it’s the best credit card we’ve ever had.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by Trism »

suemarkp wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:23 pm Finally got this resolved.

First, I tried submitting my issue in writing to the address on the back on the statement for "mistakes on your statement" as advised by SpaethCo and Turbo29. I waited a month after sending that letter and nothing came of it.

So then I filed a complaint on the CFPB website as advised by multiple posters. That was pretty easy as I already had all of the info needed in my previous correspondence and attached that to the complaint too. Amazingly, a week later Capital One credits me with the three charges I complained about and considers the problem resolved (as do I).

Once I spend what was credited to that account, I'm still going to close all my Capital One accounts. They don't deserve my business after all of this incompetence.
Cancel the card now and have them mail you a check for the credit balance (some issuers will also return a credit balance via ACH to a linked bank account).
lvm919
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by lvm919 »

Just wanted to type a quick thank you to the posters on this thread, which I found while searching if other people had similar problems. I had an issue where someone used my BoA card to steal gas, so I filed a claim and a police report. BoA denied the claim, stating that since my chip was read they wouldn't process my claim and it was denied. I followed up with filing a cfpb complaint, which also initially was rejected by BoA. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but I just had the full amount post to my account. While I did fill out a survey stating how it was a little illogical to alienate a customer of almost 20 years, I'm betting that behind the scenes someone made the decision that it wasn't worth the regulatory scrutiny and overturned the denial.
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stocknoob4111
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by stocknoob4111 »

This is a pretty scary situation... i've always assumed that any fraudulent use of my card will not be my responsibility without me having to prove my "innocence" in the matter by spending hours gathering evidence from various sources.
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TheRoundHeadedKid
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by TheRoundHeadedKid »

++++1
Last edited by TheRoundHeadedKid on Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
erp
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by erp »

TheRoundHeadedKid wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:18 pm I gave up on Capital One after they did a bait and switch on the saving accounts interest rates with me. Today I read the news headlines "Capital One (COF) Sued for Deceiving Savings Account Holders". I will gladly join when it turns into a class action lawsuit.
https://images.law.com/contrib/content/ ... plaint.pdf

pg 19 includes references to this BH thread viewtopic.php?p=5323098#p5323098
pizzy
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by pizzy »

erp wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:11 am
TheRoundHeadedKid wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:18 pm I gave up on Capital One after they did a bait and switch on the saving accounts interest rates with me. Today I read the news headlines "Capital One (COF) Sued for Deceiving Savings Account Holders". I will gladly join when it turns into a class action lawsuit.
https://images.law.com/contrib/content/ ... plaint.pdf

pg 19 includes references to this BH thread viewtopic.php?p=5323098#p5323098
Are you involved in any way with this lawsuit?
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erp
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by erp »

pizzy wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:27 am
erp wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:11 am
TheRoundHeadedKid wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:18 pm I gave up on Capital One after they did a bait and switch on the saving accounts interest rates with me. Today I read the news headlines "Capital One (COF) Sued for Deceiving Savings Account Holders". I will gladly join when it turns into a class action lawsuit.
https://images.law.com/contrib/content/ ... plaint.pdf

pg 19 includes references to this BH thread viewtopic.php?p=5323098#p5323098
Are you involved in any way with this lawsuit?
nope, although I did notice that all 3 posts quoted by the lawsuit were by the same user here.

imo I don't see the basis for this lawsuit. Every bank statement includes the "APY Earned" which is required by the govt. If a customer is too lazy to look at that, or can't do the math to realize they are getting .3% interest instead of 3%, then it doesn't seem like it's the bank's fault.

CD's are actually worse where if you miss the 10 day grace period, you get locked into another CD and have to pay the EWD penalty even if you catch it the next day. That's why they use teaser rates like 5% on an 11 month CD, which then renews into a 2% CD or something.

btw, it looks like after a few hundred posts, someone finally came up with the right advice for the OP in that thread:
Marseille07 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:06 am
JD2775 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:04 am My Cap One MM account is still at 0.80%. I have all my credit cards with them and it's all very easy to navigate around their site and see all my accounts together, but I am tempted to pull that MM money and put it somewhere else at this point if other places are offering 3%.
Any reason you can't open 360 Performance and instantly move monies and start collecting 3%?
exodusing
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by exodusing »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:45 pm This is a pretty scary situation... i've always assumed that any fraudulent use of my card will not be my responsibility without me having to prove my "innocence" in the matter by spending hours gathering evidence from various sources.
The issue is if you say it's fraud and the merchant says it's a legitimate charge, what the issuer will do. As I understand it, they will ask the merchant for evidence and review it. If they find the merchant's evidence to be convincing, they will either reinstate the charge or ask you to "prove my "innocence" in the matter". Someone will then make a final decision. They won't just take your word for it, unless they decide it's not worth their time to proceed with the process.
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by stocknoob4111 »

exodusing wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:56 pm The issue is if you say it's fraud and the merchant says it's a legitimate charge, what the issuer will do. As I understand it, they will ask the merchant for evidence and review it. If they find the merchant's evidence to be convincing, they will either reinstate the charge or ask you to "prove my
The problem here is that the merchant is simply showing a bill to prove that the charge is legitimate which makes no sense whatsoever. Of course there is going to be a bill if there is a charge - fraudulent or not. The merchant needs to provide convincing evidence that the charge was made by the customer, that is evidence of a positive identification by the merchant placing the customer at the scene of the purchase. Any else would not pass muster in an actual court.

Yeah, just like I can say it wasn't my charge the merchant can simply say that the customer made the charge because we have a bill here.

The real situation here is that merchants have NOT been verifying ID for many years now because it's inconvenient to the customer and they don't want to do anything inconvenient to the customer to get in the way of a sale. So, given that it is the merchant's responsibility to eat the loss in case of fraud since they did not do their due diligence. Many merchants do in fact eat the loss caused by fraud as the cost of doing business and that is how I have interpreted it.
erp
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by erp »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:32 pm The problem here is that the merchant is simply showing a bill to prove that the charge is legitimate which makes no sense whatsoever. Of course there is going to be a bill if there is a charge - fraudulent or not. The merchant needs to provide convincing evidence that the charge was made by the customer, that is evidence of a positive identification by the merchant placing the customer at the scene of the purchase. Any else would not pass muster in an actual court.
The post said BofA is asserting that the chip was present. That means the charge was made in person by someone with physical possession of the card. Unless the cardholder reported the card stolen, logic dictates that the charge is valid (afaik chips cannot be skimmed or spoofed).

It would be interesting to get more details from the poster. Was this a local gas station? Did he ever lose possession of the card (eg kid borrowed it without saying)? Were there other valid charges before and after the gas charge that he did himself?
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by BolderBoy »

erp wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:52 pmThe post said BofA is asserting that the chip was present. That means the charge was made in person by someone with physical possession of the card. Unless the cardholder reported the card stolen, logic dictates that the charge is valid (afaik chips cannot be skimmed or spoofed).

It would be interesting to get more details from the poster. Was this a local gas station? Did he ever lose possession of the card (eg kid borrowed it without saying)? Were there other valid charges before and after the gas charge that he did himself?
There is a gas station scam going 'round where someone offers to help you with gassing up your car and fakes putting the hose/nozzle back in the receiver. You drive off and the scammer uses the same hose/nozzle to fill up his/her auto parked on the other side of the pump. So it wouldn't be a "new" charge but an outsized single charge.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
exodusing
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Re: Capital One Credit Card Fraud Issue **UPDATE **

Post by exodusing »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:32 pmThe real situation here is that merchants have NOT been verifying ID for many years now because it's inconvenient to the customer and they don't want to do anything inconvenient to the customer to get in the way of a sale. So, given that it is the merchant's responsibility to eat the loss in case of fraud since they did not do their due diligence. Many merchants do in fact eat the loss caused by fraud as the cost of doing business and that is how I have interpreted it.
The credit card networks generally don't allow merchants to require IDs as a condition of sale.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/no-id-r ... es-3974686 I believe there are some state laws to similar effect.
BolderBoy wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:50 pm
erp wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:52 pmThe post said BofA is asserting that the chip was present. That means the charge was made in person by someone with physical possession of the card. Unless the cardholder reported the card stolen, logic dictates that the charge is valid (afaik chips cannot be skimmed or spoofed).

It would be interesting to get more details from the poster. Was this a local gas station? Did he ever lose possession of the card (eg kid borrowed it without saying)? Were there other valid charges before and after the gas charge that he did himself?
There is a gas station scam going 'round where someone offers to help you with gassing up your car and fakes putting the hose/nozzle back in the receiver. You drive off and the scammer uses the same hose/nozzle to fill up his/her auto parked on the other side of the pump. So it wouldn't be a "new" charge but an outsized single charge.
Reportedly it's almost impossible to fake the chip, but not completely impossible. However, would someone who could do this only use it for one gas charge?

Should a credit card issuer be responsible if you're the victim of that gas station scam?
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