Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

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clip651
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by clip651 »

That's a great overview of your journey, Snowbog! Congrats on all you've accomplished.

cj
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by SnowBog »

clip651 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:41 pm That's a great overview of your journey, Snowbog! Congrats on all you've accomplished.

cj
Thank you! :beer

While each of us is unique, I've noticed enough similarities with AnnetteLousian that I was hoping understanding more details of my journey would help them with their journey!
Marseille07
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Marseille07 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:51 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:44 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:40 pm 40k in taxable is on top of 83k in tax deferred, for a total of $123k a year, out of 300 in income, when I have SS and a small cola’d pension expectation and no dependents.
OK. 123K would move some needle. I wouldn't worry about income or SS or pension here; your AA is just a breakdown of assets you currently have, regardless of your income stream or lack thereof.
Thanks. Lots of good options, fortunately.
Well, I'm disappointed if what clip651 said is true:
But most of the tax deferred is going into bonds. That won't get you stock exposure. It's mostly just fixed income in a different spot, for spending in later years.

What's the alternative? The 40k in taxable, 83k in tax deferred, and just let your cash cushion keep growing? That's OK if it's what you want, but it will not get you close to 30/70.
Who are you trying to kid? We're trying to help you get to 30/70 that you said you want to get to. And you probably know by now that only investing 40K in taxable isn't enough. Given you already have enough fixed income, there's little point adding more bonds.
clip651
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by clip651 »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:21 pm
Well, I'm disappointed if what clip651 said is true:
But most of the tax deferred is going into bonds. That won't get you stock exposure. It's mostly just fixed income in a different spot, for spending in later years.

What's the alternative? The 40k in taxable, 83k in tax deferred, and just let your cash cushion keep growing? That's OK if it's what you want, but it will not get you close to 30/70.
Who are you trying to kid? We're trying to help you get to 30/70 that you said you want to get to. And you probably know by now that only investing 40K in taxable isn't enough. Given you already have enough fixed income, there's little point adding more bonds.
Well, I could be wrong about that. This is a very long thread, there are multiple tax deferred accounts in play, and at this point I'm going by memory of what I've read. Looking forward to the promised update on what the current holdings actually are to get a better overview.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Both are right - I was mostly bonds in tax deferred after reducing equity exposure in 2016, but I recently did some reallocating there and also added some equity in my IRA. I’m looking forward to laying out my 1/31 numbers and taking it from there. With all the recent activity (market fluctuations, purchases, a raise and bonus, various new accounts- Fidelity and Treasury Direct, even a new ex US fund), there should be some improvement shown, if only in direction. 🤞🏻🙏🏻
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Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Annette Louisan’s accounts - after 5 months of input - there is some improvement but now hopefully I can further right the ship.

Emergency Funds - yes, 6 months of expenses in TD Bank

Debt: none

Tax Filing Status: single

Tax Rate: 35% Fedl, 6.33% State, 3.9% City = 45.23%

State of Residence: NY

Age: 55 - want to be able to retire 58-60 if necessary but may prefer to work longer

Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
$630,000 in 3 banks

401k

TRowePrice - $270,900 total
State Street S&P Index - $53,000, ER 0.01, future allocation, 25%
State street Global All Cap Ex-US Ind., $106.00, ER 0.15, future: 5%
Baird Core Plus Bond Inst - $109,234, ER 0.30, future allocation: 0
Stable Value Common Trust Fund - $108,565, ER 0.15, future allocation: 70 %

Federal Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) - all ER 0.049
Lifecycle 2030 Fund $3,052 future allocation: 0
C Fund $73,085 future allocation: 25 %
S Fund small cap $4,476 future allocation: 0
I Fund international developed markets $6,951, FA: 5 %
G Fund govt securities: $235,169, future: 70 %

Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).

Series I bonds
$20,000

Contributions:
$27,000 401k, including catch up
$21,000 employer match
$7k Roth IRA
$10k series I bonds
$20k taxable (likely more)
$80k cash

Available funds in 401k

Stocks
Capital Appreciation Trust B CBT, ER 0.55
Instl mid cap equity growth, PMEGX, ER 0.61
Intl Growth Equity Trust A, IAG, ER 0.63
New Horizons - I CL. PRJIX, ER 0.64
Pimco All Asset, Instl, PAAIX, ER 0.91
State street Smmid cap Idx cl II, CMK42, ER 0.02
TRowe price growth stock TR C, GCT, ER 0.40
TRP US large-cap core TR-B GIB, ER 0.45
TRP us value equity trust VTA, ER 0.62
Us small cap val eq trust D SVD, ER 0.66
Bonds
Baird Core Plus Bond Institutional, ER 0.30
State street us bond index CM7FE, ER 0.02
Target date funds every 5 years, each with a 0.36 percent ER

Other:
Earn $300k gross, spend $40-45k plus $78k taxes
Cola’d pension and SS in retirement should cover 70-80 percent of expected retirement expenses
May move in 2022, own home worth $600k outright

Questions:

1. How can I rearrange my 401ks to maximize quality and tax efficiency, keep expenses low and reach my AA? My current approach won’t get me there fast enough.
2. Assuming I keep solely equity indexes in my Roth and taxable, how much should I put in taxable each year and what is a good tax loss harvesting pair for VTI?
3. Given my tax rate, is there room here for a small muni investment or is it unnecessary since I’m bond heavy already
4. What should I do with the Baird fund in my 401k - keep or switch? If switch, to what?
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:02 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Annette’s 2022 Numbers

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
...
Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).
It appears you're well short of the needed stock allocation, based on the 30/70 Desired AA.
I could only find around $140k of stock funds, and based on 30% of $1.3 mil, you'd need $390k, so you're $250k short of what you seek.

Some easy fixes are to put the ENTIRE Roth account into the stock fund (FSKAX), and to put the 80% SPAXX into VTI in the taxable account.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Annette’s 2022 Numbers

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

retired@50 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
...
Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).
It appears you're well short of the needed stock allocation, based on the 30/70 Desired AA.
I could only find around $140k of stock funds, and based on 30% of $1.3 mil, you'd need $390k, so you're $250k short of what you seek.

Some easy fixes are to put the ENTIRE Roth account into the stock fund (FSKAX), and to put the 80% SPAXX into VTI in the taxable account.

Regards,
Yes, that is definitely the plan for the very near future - this month. Thanks!!
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by 59Gibson »

78k taxes on 300k income in NYC as single filer seems light even with maxed contribution. Did I wiss something or is that just fed tax?
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:51 pm 78k taxes on 300k income in NYC as single filer seems light even with maxed contribution. Did I wiss something or is that just fed tax?
That’s total. 233 base this year, the rest is bonus, raise, interest income, match and earnings on 401. Plus I own a home and although I don’t have a mortgage the building does so I deduct a percentage of maintenance (RE taxes and my portion of the bldg mtg). Plus charitable contributions.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by 59Gibson »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:55 pm
59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:51 pm 78k taxes on 300k income in NYC as single filer seems light even with maxed contribution. Did I wiss something or is that just fed tax?
That’s total. 233 base this year, the rest is bonus, raise, match and earnings on 401.
Ok so you're counting employer match and return on 401k for the 300k gross.
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Re: Annette’s 2022 Numbers

Post by marcopolo »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:45 pm
retired@50 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
...
Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).
It appears you're well short of the needed stock allocation, based on the 30/70 Desired AA.
I could only find around $140k of stock funds, and based on 30% of $1.3 mil, you'd need $390k, so you're $250k short of what you seek.

Some easy fixes are to put the ENTIRE Roth account into the stock fund (FSKAX), and to put the 80% SPAXX into VTI in the taxable account.

Regards,
Yes, that is definitely the plan for the very near future - this month. Thanks!!
Those two moves are not really going to move the needle. It only amount to another ~$12,500. Still leaving you at only about 12% equity allocation.

You have been posting about wanting to go to a 30% equity allocation for some time now. You seem to be dragging your heels quite a bit. Are you sure you really have the temperament for it? Most of your assets are in tax advantaged account, you could go to your desired allocation at any given time without any tax implications.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Re: Annette’s 2022 Numbers

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:01 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:45 pm
retired@50 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
...
Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).
It appears you're well short of the needed stock allocation, based on the 30/70 Desired AA.
I could only find around $140k of stock funds, and based on 30% of $1.3 mil, you'd need $390k, so you're $250k short of what you seek.

Some easy fixes are to put the ENTIRE Roth account into the stock fund (FSKAX), and to put the 80% SPAXX into VTI in the taxable account.

Regards,
Yes, that is definitely the plan for the very near future - this month. Thanks!!
Those two moves are not really going to move the needle. It only amount to another ~$12,500. Still leaving you at only about 12% equity allocation.

You have been posting about wanting to go to a 30% equity allocation for some time now. You seem to be dragging your heels quite a bit. Are you sure you really have the temperament for it? Most of your assets are in tax advantaged account, you could go to your desired allocation at any given time without any tax implications.
That’s a key issue, the mechanics of shifting: do I just get out of the Baird Fund and call it a day? Which of my funds would be good candidates to switch? G Fund and Stable value are supposed to be good. And yet bonds are better in tax deferred so better to just move the cash into equities in taxable (say 200k or 50 k per quarter?)
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Re: Annette’s 2022 Numbers

Post by marcopolo »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:09 pm
marcopolo wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:01 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:45 pm
retired@50 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm Desired AA: 30/70
Intl: 5% of stocks

Approximate total portfolio: $1.3 million

Current Retirement Assets

taxable:
$5,139 in Fidelity (20% VTI, 80% SPAXX)
...
Roth IRA:
$13,900 (40% Fidelity Total Market - FSKAX, 60% core money market, future allocation: 100 percent FSKAX).
It appears you're well short of the needed stock allocation, based on the 30/70 Desired AA.
I could only find around $140k of stock funds, and based on 30% of $1.3 mil, you'd need $390k, so you're $250k short of what you seek.

Some easy fixes are to put the ENTIRE Roth account into the stock fund (FSKAX), and to put the 80% SPAXX into VTI in the taxable account.

Regards,
Yes, that is definitely the plan for the very near future - this month. Thanks!!
Those two moves are not really going to move the needle. It only amount to another ~$12,500. Still leaving you at only about 12% equity allocation.

You have been posting about wanting to go to a 30% equity allocation for some time now. You seem to be dragging your heels quite a bit. Are you sure you really have the temperament for it? Most of your assets are in tax advantaged account, you could go to your desired allocation at any given time without any tax implications.
That’s a key issue, the mechanics of shifting: do I just get out of the Baird Fund and call it a day? Which of my funds would be good candidates to switch? G Fund and Stable value are supposed to be good. And yet bonds are better in tax deferred so better to just move the cash into equities in taxable (say 200k or 50 k per quarter?)
You have $630 sitting in 3 banks. What is the purpose of that?
Unless you plan to use that in the near future for something like a home purchase, that seems like low hanging fruit.
Decide what you can tolerate as a equity percentage for your overall portfolio and deploy whatever amount is needed to reach that goal out of that cash hoard and into broadly diversified equity holdings. I would do it right away, but if it help you psychologically to do it over a few quarters, i guess that is better than sitting on your hands with indecision.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm what is a good tax loss harvesting pair for VTI?
See this thread, and in particular, this post by Duckie.

Link: viewtopic.php?p=6466520#p6466520

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by Marseille07 »

If I were you, I'd go 100% equities in 401K/IRA and hold enough equities in taxable to achieve 30/70. Meanwhile I'd keep buying I-bonds and hold the rest in cash. Yes, the cash loses vs inflation but it's unclear if bonds do any better.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Don't drag your feet. If you have a plan, execute it.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by retire2022 »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:54 pm If I were you, I'd go 100% equities in 401K/IRA and hold enough equities in taxable to achieve 30/70. Meanwhile I'd keep buying I-bonds and hold the rest in cash. Yes, the cash loses vs inflation but it's unclear if bonds do any better.
++! 1

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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by retire2022 »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:11 pm Don't drag your feet. If you have a plan, execute it.
+1 Pull the band aid, no pain no gain!
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Thanks all! I’m THIS CLOSE!!

So:

1. Will definitely put the IRA and taxable in equity (FSKAX and vti)
2. Will definitely keep maxing tax deferred accounts and I bonds.

3. Change future allocation in 401k to 90 percent S&P and 10 percent international? Or some other mix?

4. Sell all the Baird fund and some of the MMF for equities? (I thought fixed income is more tax efficient in tax deferred?)

5. Peel off $100k-$150k of the cash and get it invested this year in taxable?

6. Any of the 401k options look superior to the ones I chose?
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by ClaycordJCA »

Sorry, but it strikes me that you’ve reached the point of paralysis by analysis. John Bogle: “The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.” What is YOUR comfort level with international stocks? You’ll get a broad range of opinions here ranging between 0 to 40%. Decide what is right for YOU and stick to it - you won’t know if it is “perfect” for 30+ years, but it will be good enough. And do it tomorrow. Same thing with the moves in your Fidelity Roth IRA. Good luck.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by clip651 »

(deleted, my post was a link to a separate discussion that was merged into this one)
Last edited by clip651 on Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by MattB »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:00 pm 4. Sell all the Baird fund and some of the MMF for equities? (I thought fixed income is more tax efficient in tax deferred?)
Fixed income is generally more tax efficient in a tax deferred account than fixed income in a taxable account. But that comparison doesn't matter for your purposes. You're exchanging (or should exchange) fixed income for equities in your tax deferred account.
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by clip651 »

Fixed income is theoretically more tax efficient in tax deferred, yes.

But your 630,000 cash in taxable is fixed income, too (cash is one type of fixed income) - and that's all taxable, granted at low interest rates currently. (I assume your 6 month emergency fund isn't included in that amount.)

So, you could deploy a bunch of that taxable cash into VTI in taxable to get you to your desired stock allocation, and use your tax deferred space for as much fixed income as will fit there. Since you seem really reluctant to buy VTI in taxable (so far you've put about $1,000 into VTI in taxable, and since then you have watched the small price movements of VTI daily like a hawk), the suggestion is to at least put stocks in your tax deferred for now. That gets you more stock exposure now.

And since the stocks would be in tax deferred for now, if you later decide you are ready for more stocks in taxable, you can buy stocks in taxable, and exchange your stocks in tax deferred back to bonds on the same day with no tax consequences. That would essentially just move your stocks from one place to another without tax consequences, though in reality it is two separate and unrelated transactions. Doing it on the same day means you don't have to worry about the timing at all, you sell stocks for basically the same price you buy for (plus or minus the intraday variation due to the ETF in taxable).

30% of $1,300,000 is $390,000, so that's how much stock you need now (and that number will be bigger by the end of the year due to portfolio growth from your new contributions)
5% of 390,000 is $19,500, so that's your proposed international stock amount. Round it to $20,000 for simplicity.
That leaves $370,000 that should be in US stocks.

Decide where you want what.

If you want bonds in tax deferred, do that, and put $370,000 in VTI in taxable.
If you can't imagine putting 370,000 in VTI in taxable and then holding it there as the market goes up and down day by day for years to come(we don't know which direction it will go when, but we do know it will continue to vary!), then put the stocks in your tax deferred for now, or put some stocks in taxable and some in tax deferred for now.

cj
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by tibbitts »

59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:59 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:55 pm
59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:51 pm 78k taxes on 300k income in NYC as single filer seems light even with maxed contribution. Did I wiss something or is that just fed tax?
That’s total. 233 base this year, the rest is bonus, raise, match and earnings on 401.
Ok so you're counting employer match and return on 401k for the 300k gross.
That threw me off too. I think it's extremely confusing for someone who's employed and not living off investments to refer to gross that way, especially with tax-advantaged accounts. If you lose money some years you might end up giving people the impression you're paying your employer for the privilege of working.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by LadyGeek »

AnnetteLouisan - In order to provide appropriate advice, it's best to keep all the information in one spot. I merged your update back into the original thread. If you have any questions, ask them here.

I edited the first post to point to your new numbers. Feel free to update the post further.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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Re: Annette’s 1/31/2022 Numbers

Post by Zeno »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:24 pm
59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:59 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:55 pm
59Gibson wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:51 pm 78k taxes on 300k income in NYC as single filer seems light even with maxed contribution. Did I wiss something or is that just fed tax?
That’s total. 233 base this year, the rest is bonus, raise, match and earnings on 401.
Ok so you're counting employer match and return on 401k for the 300k gross.
That threw me off too. I think it's extremely confusing for someone who's employed and not living off investments to refer to gross that way, especially with tax-advantaged accounts. If you lose money some years you might end up giving people the impression you're paying your employer for the privilege of working.
+1

Sometimes investment advisors are critically needed even if that goes against BH principles. I humbly suggest that OP consider hiring one.
Last edited by Zeno on Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

I regret very much that some feel unappreciated, but the facts evidence lots of earnest activity and real progress in the past 5 months since joining, based on comments received on this forum, all while working full time in the busiest season during the pandemic:

- bought I bonds for the first time ever, maxed ‘21 and ‘22
- decided on a brokerage (Fidelity)
- opened an IRA and converted to Roth, first time ever, maxed both years plus the catch up and bought FSKAX
- opened and funded a taxable brokerage for the first time ever and bought VTI, my first ETF purchase ever
- reallocated future contributions in 401
- explored HSAs for the first time ever during open enrollment
- drafted an IPS
- decided on an AA
- got my concrete pension and ss numbers from HR and SS
- learned how to handle serious intraday volatility
- educated myself on the wiki and on various featured podcasts
- handled two insurance events (medical and fire)
- applied for and got promotion
-got a raise and bonus

Now I’m really at the very last step, which is implementing the AA. I have a number of options as to how to get there.

But absolutely the forum has been extremely patient and I appreciate it. No one should feel obliged to assist me and in any event thanks to you all, I am *light years* ahead of where I was in September when I first learned of you all.

It isn’t easy to learn, change, reorient and take decisive action with respect to ones life savings in a few months, but I’m honestly trying as much as I can, in volatile markets with serious people warning of a downturn every week.

It’s also not easy to post your personal financial details in public, to people with much more, but most of you have been exceptionally kind, encouraging and gracious about it and as to those who prefer candor, that helps too believe it or not.

Thank you again.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by DebiT »

I’ve been following your threads, and do see the progress. I see some similarities in personality style, and sense that you are a detail oriented person, trying to make some big changes. My style has been to gather lots of info, analyze possible decisions, and then once I’ve made up my mind, I don’t tend to look back. The phrase I have used about myself in the past was that it’s like trying to turn a cruise ship around. You know where you’re trying to get to. Now it’s a question of implementation.

And guess what? After you implement this round, likely there will be another layer , or more fine-tuning. In some ways it’s a never ending process. I’m just finishing the first 2 years of a sooner than expected retirement after sudden widowhood. I’ve had to absorb a lot of change in becoming a retiree vs a worker / saver. You're making a lot of changes too, and your posts help others learn as well. :sharebeer
Age 66, life turned upside down 3/2/19, thanking God for what I've learned from this group. AA 40/60 for now, possibly changing at age 70.
Flyer24
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Flyer24 »

A couple of disrespectful posts were deleted. Stay respectful.
clip651
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by clip651 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:08 pm I regret very much that some feel unappreciated, but the facts evidence lots of earnest activity and real progress in the past 5 months since joining, based on comments received on this forum, all while working full time in the busiest season during the pandemic:

- bought I bonds for the first time ever, maxed ‘21 and ‘22
- decided on a brokerage (Fidelity)
- opened an IRA and converted to Roth, first time ever, maxed both years plus the catch up and bought FSKAX
- opened and funded a taxable brokerage for the first time ever and bought VTI, my first ETF purchase ever
- reallocated future contributions in 401
- explored HSAs for the first time ever during open enrollment
- drafted an IPS
- decided on an AA
- learned how to handle serious intraday volatility
- educated myself on the wiki and on various featured podcasts
- handled two insurance events (medical and fire)
- applied for and got promotion
-got a raise and bonus

Now I’m really at the very last step, which is implementing the AA. I have a number of options as to how to get there.

But absolutely the forum has been extremely patient and I appreciate it. No one should feel obliged to assist me and in any event thanks to you all, I am *light years* ahead of where I was in September when I first learned of you all.

It isn’t easy to learn, change, reorient and take decisive action with respect to ones life savings in a few months, but I’m honestly trying as much as I can, in volatile markets with serious people warning of a downturn every week.

It’s also not easy to post your personal financial details in public, to people with much more, but most of you have been exceptionally kind, encouraging and gracious about it and as to those who prefer candor, that helps too believe it or not.

Thank you again.
You have made lots of progress. And hopefully you're ready to make some more!

Just a couple of notes:

The stock market *always* has the potential to be volatile. January 2022 had more volatility to the downside than we've seen since spring of 2020, which was probably before you were paying any attention to the market. But it hasn't really been that bad this month. It can be a whole lot worse! More volatile, bigger drops in a single day or a week, no quick bounce back upward, etc. And that's expected to happen periodically, at unpredictable intervals. You need to expect markets to fluctuate. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Sometimes upwards, sometimes downwards, sometimes staying stubbornly flat for a bit, etc. Sometimes out of the blue, sometimes seemingly connected to some event or another.

Once you get to your planned AA you will only have 30% stock. So even a big downturn won't hit your total portfolio too hard - if stocks take a 50% haircut, you'd still have 85% of your portfolio left. But if you look closely, and watch how many dollars seem to have disappeared in a day, week, or month, it may seem really dramatic. One trick to staying the course is to expect fluctuations to keep happening, and not peer too closely too often at the exact total value of your stock holdings compared to their most recent highs. We hope and expect that the long term trend will be upwards. There's no guarantee. But that hope/expectation is why we bother to invest in stocks.

As for serious people warning of a downturn every week - this happens **all the time**. You can look at my join date, I was a new investor then. We had had a pretty good bull market in the years just before I joined, and it seemed "everyone" including people who really should know these things was either predicting a deep crash, or muted stock returns for the coming decade, or both. And the same predictions have been made by someone or other, right here on this forum, every week since I have joined! Often with very reasonable sounding reasons, or fancy charts and technical terms, why it is unavoidable and must be what is coming. And if you look in the financial press (don't actually look, it's a waste of time, you can just trust me on this!) there is always someone explaining why we are obviously doomed and overdue for a crash from which we might never recover. Sometimes it's the same person over and over (permabears! there are lots of them!). Other times it's different people than last week. Doesn't matter, none of them can predict the future, except by luck. Crashes will come eventually, and smaller fluctuations will happen quite frequently. As investors we need to accept that risk. If we can't accept that risk, we shouldn't invest in stocks, and then we have to accept other risks instead (inflation, real estate market fluctuations, and whatever else).

best wishes and I hope some of the things I type are helpful!
cj

(edited to fix typo)
Last edited by clip651 on Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by colddeadfish »

My previous post was removed. So I will leave you with snowbogs wise words

viewtopic.php?p=6470791#p6470791
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Marseille07 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:08 pm Now I’m really at the very last step, which is implementing the AA. I have a number of options as to how to get there.
As I said, the simplest is to simply turn your retirement accounts 100% equities and hold cash elsewhere. There's little point worrying about tax efficiency of holding bonds in retirement accounts, when doing so would hinder your ability to buy equities in taxable.

This is why some posters are saying analysis paralysis; we need some planning & execution, not worrying about tax efficiency of an asset class you're trying to reduce anyway.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:08 pm - drafted an IPS
What does your IPS say about re-balancing or asset allocation?

If my numbers were close to the truth, you're holding $140k of stock when you should be holding around $390k of stock. That means you're only holding around 35% of your desired stock allocation. If you allow yourself the freedom to wander far away from what you stated in your IPS, then it's a worthless piece of paper.

Remember, the IPS is supposed to help avoid behavioral errors. Is your IPS working?

Link: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

retired@50 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:58 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:08 pm - drafted an IPS
What does your IPS say about re-balancing or asset allocation?

If my numbers were close to the truth, you're holding $140k of stock when you should be holding around $390k of stock. That means you're only holding around 35% of your desired stock allocation. If you allow yourself the freedom to wander far away from what you stated in your IPS, then it's a worthless piece of paper.

Remember, the IPS is supposed to help avoid behavioral errors. Is your IPS working?

Link: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement

Regards,
I posted my draft IPS on 10/14, 7:32 pm above. But it’s not finished yet. Good point, I will add some guidelines for rebalancing.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by SnowBog »

Respectfully, I don't think retired@50's post was "about your IPS" specifically...

I think it was more a reflection of if your plan is done, it's time to execute.

I get that first step is scary, many of us have been there before, we get it... You should take the time you need to feel confident in your plan, and that you are doing the right thing...

But what you shouldn't do is take months to execute the plan.

As noted, you hold something like 1/3 of your desired stock allocation. Putting a few dollars here and there into stocks isn't going to correct that. To reach your goal, you are going to have to move faster.

Now, if 30% stocks is the wrong AA for you, so be it. Only you can determine the risk you are willing to take (or not). We can advise you that - perhaps counterintuitively - there is lots of risk in having a low exposure to stocks over a long retirement (due to inflation). But ultimately that's your call...

But many of us are trying to help you understand that you need to be willing to make some bigger changes if you have any hope of ever getting to a what you stated was your desired stock exposure.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:04 am I posted my draft IPS on 10/14, 7:32 pm above. But it’s not finished yet. Good point, I will add some guidelines for rebalancing.
You're stalling.

It's been 110 days since October 14th. Either you don't really believe in 30% stock / 70% bonds or something else is going on. At this point, I have no idea what. :shock:

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Why not just go buy some ETFs tomorrow morning and partially implement your plan? Why wait?
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

retired@50 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:02 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:04 am I posted my draft IPS on 10/14, 7:32 pm above. But it’s not finished yet. Good point, I will add some guidelines for rebalancing.
You're stalling.

It's been 110 days since October 14th. Either you don't really believe in 30% stock / 70% bonds or something else is going on. At this point, I have no idea what. :shock:

Regards,
I think I can help clear this up.

I’ve never made such large securities transactions before in my life. I feel safer doing it incrementally.

I’m used to the automated nature of the 401k, and if anything reallocating future contributions. Even putting 7k in my Roth for ‘21 and ‘22 and buying 10k of I bonds for both years seemed large to me. Then opening the taxable and putting 5k in. So in total I’ve invested an additional $39,000 over and above my 401k just in the last few months, a very volatile time period. Other than when I wrote the check for my apartment down payment, that’s the largest amount I’ve ever invested in such a short period. And some of it is still in a core fund but going into equities shortly.

So on top of that to start moving hundreds of thousands at once… it’s mind boggling and out of my league. I’ve heard from folks here who invest $500,000 on a single day, or even a million or more. That’s amazing, but I do not have that experience.

I have experience getting store credit at Walmart for a $28 item that was not delivered. I have experience getting a $10 month discount on T-mobile. I have experience getting the $55 Amex annual fee grandfathered, and I have experience calling the public service commission when Verizon wanted to force us to switch to Fios, which would cost extra. I have experience putting $30k into three $10,000 bank CDs at 7percent, lest I need to break one and forfeit interest.

Not that I don’t aspire to be a female version of Leon Cooperman one day - did anyone see the recent profile of him in the Washington Post? Quite good. But I am simply not there yet as I have to go at my own pace. We all do.

But thank you all very much again for your guidance.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Wiggums »

Try this: Set up automated purchases and your cash will get into the market - similar to a 401k. We buy weekly.

I think people are trying to encourage you to get the money invested because time in the market is your friend. Cash right now is being hurt by inflation.

Congratulations on all the changes you’ve made so far.
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Marseille07 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:32 pm So on top of that to start moving hundreds of thousands at once… it’s mind boggling and out of my league. I’ve heard from folks here who invest $500,000 on a single day, or even a million or more. That’s amazing, but I do not have that experience.
That was actually half the story. I was tax-loss harvesting. While it is true I bought 500K+ in one shot, that was right after selling 500K+. New money also got deployed but it was nowhere near 500K+.

As Wiggums said, I was trying to encourage you to get your money invested.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Yes I completely understand and I am extremely appreciative of everyone cheerleading for me. I know your hearts are in the right place and I will post my next investment, hopefully soon. I’m going to finish up my IPS, figure out how to get to 30/70, and post the resolution.

I’m like Eliza Doolittle on here. At one point you may say. By Jove I think she’s got it!! 😅

And btw since I just got a promotion it’s now going to be yet more money coming in … 🤯 such a problem…
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:32 pm I’ve never made such large securities transactions before in my life. I feel safer doing it incrementally.
During a normal year there are around 252 stock trading days. Since we're already into February, there are probably around 230 trading days left in 2022.

I propose you buy $1,100 worth of stock every trading day for the rest of the year. This will add up to $253,000 invested, which should make up your stock holding shortfall. Best of luck.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by dogagility »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:32 pm I’ve never made such large securities transactions before in my life. I feel safer doing it incrementally.

I’m used to the automated nature of the 401k, and if anything reallocating future contributions. Even putting 7k in my Roth for ‘21 and ‘22 and buying 10k of I bonds for both years seemed large to me. Then opening the taxable and putting 5k in. So in total I’ve invested an additional $39,000 over and above my 401k just in the last few months, a very volatile time period. Other than when I wrote the check for my apartment down payment, that’s the largest amount I’ve ever invested in such a short period. And some of it is still in a core fund but going into equities shortly.

But thank you all very much again for your guidance.
Your reluctance to move more into equities faster is understandable. Many people like to DCA for pyschological reasons. It's not an optimal strategy to maximize portfolio size however.

Something to consider is that all of your 1.3 million dollar portfolio is already invested. It's just invested in vehicles with very low volatility and very low expected return. These investments are losing significant dollars to inflation at the moment. If these investments are maintained for the long-term, inflation is a significant risk to your portfolio buying power.

On the other hand, you have stated that you will receive a COLA'ed pension and SS that will cover 70% of your retirement spend. In that regard, it may not matter what you do with your 1.3M portfolio... you may still have sufficient money to cover your retirement. Only you know whether or not that gives you more confidence in pulling the trigger to reach a 30/70 AA.

All the Best!
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by clip651 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:32 pm just in the last few months, a very volatile time period.
Why do you think the last few months were very volatile? They certainly weren't volatile months for the I bonds you bought!

Again, the last few months were not a very volatile time period for stocks. We had some good growth, and then what so far looks to be a small, short correction. (Or, it could be the beginning of a crash, or the beginning of a sideways market for a bit, or whatever else, I don't claim to know.) But my point is, that the market can be a LOT more volatile than this. And that is completely normal and to be expected. Markets will fluctuate, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. The recent fluctuations were by no means a lot. But you need to be ready for them to fluctuate a lot, and in the "wrong" direction, at unpredictable intervals.

I applaud your progress. But I also encourage you to zoom out on the market charts, and keep your focus zoomed out to longer time periods. What happens one day, one week, or over a few months or even a couple of years matters little to a long term investor. And that's what you are attempting to become. There really is no purpose for someone in your position to invest in stocks for anything but the long term. So you need to start cultivating that long term viewpoint in yourself.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by Marseille07 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:58 pm Yes I completely understand and I am extremely appreciative of everyone cheerleading for me. I know your hearts are in the right place and I will post my next investment, hopefully soon. I’m going to finish up my IPS, figure out how to get to 30/70, and post the resolution.

I’m like Eliza Doolittle on here. At one point you may say. By Jove I think she’s got it!! 😅

And btw since I just got a promotion it’s now going to be yet more money coming in … 🤯 such a problem…
While having an IPS is a good idea, don't let that stop you from investing.

I have an AA I want to get to but it's not written up formally as an IPS and it doesn't change much. Some fine details I exchange ideas with other posters, but this doesn't stop me from investing.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by retire2022 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:32 pm
I think I can help clear this up.

I’ve never made such large securities transactions before in my life. I feel safer doing it incrementally.

I’m used to the automated nature of the 401k, and if anything reallocating future contributions. Even putting 7k in my Roth for ‘21 and ‘22 and buying 10k of I bonds for both years seemed large to me. Then opening the taxable and putting 5k in. So in total I’ve invested an additional $39,000 over and above my 401k just in the last few months, a very volatile time period. Other than when I wrote the check for my apartment down payment, that’s the largest amount I’ve ever invested in such a short period. And some of it is still in a core fund but going into equities shortly.

So on top of that to start moving hundreds of thousands at once… it’s mind boggling and out of my league. I’ve heard from folks here who invest $500,000 on a single day, or even a million or more. That’s amazing, but I do not have that experience.

I have experience getting store credit at Walmart for a $28 item that was not delivered. I have experience getting a $10 month discount on T-mobile. I have experience getting the $55 Amex annual fee grandfathered, and I have experience calling the public service commission when Verizon wanted to force us to switch to Fios, which would cost extra. I have experience putting $30k into three $10,000 bank CDs at 7percent, lest I need to break one and forfeit interest.

Not that I don’t aspire to be a female version of Leon Cooperman one day - did anyone see the recent profile of him in the Washington Post? Quite good. But I am simply not there yet as I have to go at my own pace. We all do.

But thank you all very much again for your guidance.
I moved 1.7 million (last August) and brought equities shortly thereafter holding 242k or 10% of entire 2.6 million portfolio.

So yes I learned to walk and then run, large transaction is no different from small amounts. Since you brought last monday imagine if you had brought a larger amount? then you would had seen more green now.

edit here is a graph where we are

https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=VTI&p=d&tas=0

If you had brought in June 2021 Dollar Cost Average you could had brought, or Oct 24, 2021 and Jan 24, 2022.

When will you pull the trigger?
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by placeholder »

I don't see a problem with taking time to plan and implement as it took me many months of reading books and designing model portfolios but I didn't do it here on the forum with people going "do it do it do it!!!"
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

placeholder wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:56 pm I don't see a problem with taking time to plan and implement as it took me many months of reading books and designing model portfolios but I didn't do it here on the forum with people going "do it do it do it!!!"
Yes, it’s an interesting phenomenon. I’m new to social media and I must say, “Annette”s persona has garnered much more attention and resonance here than my real one ever did in life. Love her or not, she evokes a response. I’ve tried to get tailored financial and investing advice for decades, pretty much in vain, but Annette has a virtual cheering section (and a cynical back row) but is rarely ignored. I wish I could pay folks back for their time and thoughtfulness - will definitely donate again.

I was so tempted to say that I’d put all $1.3 mil in VTSAX two days ago - imagine if I had, with all this FB news and the big drop - perhaps more to come. Would I blame Marseille07? That wouldn’t be fair.

That’s why we need to proceed like a kitten walking on a subway grating - tenderly, carefully, finding our footing. I’ve known too many people who acted precipitously and paid the price.
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Re: Where Do I Go From Here - Asset Location [2022 Update]

Post by retired@50 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:12 pm That’s why we need to proceed like a kitten walking on a subway grating - tenderly, carefully, finding our footing. I’ve known too many people who acted precipitously and paid the price.
The above sentiment is why I suggested investing $1,100 per day for the rest of 2022. You'll have every morning and evening to reflect on your actions.

Regards,

ETA: I'm rooting for you, and a successful retirement, although my approach may come across as "tough love", I have the best of intentions.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they'll never sit in." -ancient proverb

I'm just trying to be one of the good people that do things for other people.
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