Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

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guyinlaw
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Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by guyinlaw » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 pm

We have to make a decision in the next few days, whether to send our child to in-person classes in Fall or choose online classes. They is in 4-6th grades and would prefer going to school.

1. In Person school day will be 2-4 days at school with reduced occupancy, depending on situation. They will also have some Online work, on the days they stay home.
2. Online classes will be ~3 hrs/day Monday-Thursday with Friday for office hours.

During Mar-June online classes our experience was very good. Students were busy and engaged with lots of activities/Homework. But i have heard from other parents that their online school experience was not good.

With in person classes there is a consideration of what happens when one of the students or their family members are COVID+. I think all the students will be required to stay home for 14 days.

I was planning to choose partial in-class option, but a quick survey among my local friends showed, most of them choosing Virtual option.. I am in the east coast, with state requiring wearing masks indoor public places.

Are others making similar decisions? What do you plan to do?

Edit: our state requires everyone in indoor public spaces to wear masks. Everyone at schools will be wearing masks, kids, teachers. Kids will eat lunch in class. There will be some music, PE, art etc, not sure how much.
Last edited by guyinlaw on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nydoc
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by nydoc » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:52 pm

Any gathering indoors will cause virus to spread. School will shut down again. No easy answers here. Classes need to happen in open which is not possible in cold climates. Do online classes until we have a widely available effective vaccine.

Normchad
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Normchad » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:55 pm

This just stinks. I understand it; and the schools are doing the best they can; but it stinks. It stinks for the kids..... Just so sad.....

you only get 12 years of primary education, and to think 1 of them might be basically lost; just stinks. Especially bad for the very young; where a big part of the in school experience is learning how to go to school, and learning how to be socialized with others and be in groups.

runner3081
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by runner3081 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:56 pm

We have a similar decision:
1) 5-days per week in class
2) Rotating 3 days/2 days in class with the remainder online
3) Rotate the above two options by quarter
4) Full online

We asked our daughter, she wants to be in class full-time, that is what we will choose. 100% online isn't really something we would want, so in my eyes, there is only a negligible difference between options 1 and 2 as far as likelihood to end up with COVID.

Fortunately, we are in a good spot. My wife stays at home, so if they force option 4, we can do so without any issues. I feel bad for all of the kids with special needs or with multiple working parents (especially in poverty). I bet many elementary kids were left home alone with no education and little food (no way to pickup free lunches offered) this past year. Very sad - breaks my heart.

student5
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by student5 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm

We tried to get our kids to get used to wearing face masks for a few hours-they did not enjoy it at all. If they went back to school, the face mask part of Covid-19 precautions may be very spotty in the classroom.

MathWizard
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by MathWizard » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:03 pm

Is the state or local school district requiring masks by all students/staff?

Though our state is NOT requiring masks, some are requiring them of students and staff.

Sadly, given recent events which are politicizing wearing of masks, this may be problematic to enforce.

I would be in a quandry myself if I had kids in elementary school.
My older brothers went to school during the polio epidemic, and some people "immunized" their kids by deliberately exposing them.
Different world then.

What are your options if you choose one now and things change?
I understand that the school board and administrators need to plan, but health concerns are important.

I guess I'd ask "Other than financial considerations, why can't we plan for in person, but keep online as an option at any time. Colleges did this during spring break, not allowing students back on campus, and converting to all online.

If I had the means to home school, I would have done that, I would have if I had been in this situation.

Would you be able to do online? Many can't because both parents work.

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teen persuasion
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by teen persuasion » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:14 pm

We haven't been offered choices yet, but the CSD did an online survey to ask preferences, experiences. One issue that was discussed is transportation - how do you bus kids and maintain social distancing? There's no way our rural district can expect parents to transport, the infrastructure won't allow it, and many families can't manage it.

DH is a teacher in an alternative school, and just learned for summer classes (starting next week) that residential students will attend in person, but day students (normally transported in from a variety of districts) will do online. Residential side teachers aren't pleased (to be possibly exposed), but the online option isn't popular either (internet access can be problematic for some students).

MAandMEMom
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by MAandMEMom » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:16 pm

I was young when chicken pox was rampant and there were neighborhood herd immunity parties to expose us kids. Such a hard decision as this isn’t the chicken pox for sure! Our family decisions are high school and college-based, and equally (but differently) difficult.

Monsterflockster
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Monsterflockster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm

Same story for us. We were offered hybrid or 100% online distance learning. (Going back full time is not an option). It’s a hard choice... our kids are both elementary and do better in class, distance learning was a battle. But we are also very concerned about the virus as we care for our in-laws who are 80+ both with health issues. No easy solution though we are probably going to err on the side of caution.

May be a nonissue as it was just announced by the county that school may be all online in the fall due to a big increase of cases lately.

Beach
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Beach » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 am

Our school district is dragging their feet on what to do, online vs in person. It appears they will be delaying the start of the school year to buy more time. The local private schools appear to be planning on school as normal in the area, but they are crazy expensive. Staying at home is not an option for us, we both work full time and our quarantine school experience at home was a disaster. This just sucks for us

jjface
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by jjface » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:07 am

Lol the kids want to be in school. How times have changed.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by dziuniek » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:14 am

We are sending our youngest to kindergarten in the Fall... as of right now anyways. We are in CT and things seem to be better here than most places. I am currently working from home so I guess worst comes to worst if schools shut down I can help our kiddo with the online stuff. Then again, what is a 5 year old going to get out of watching some videos.... not sure.

Really a hard call to make these days.

If I get called back to the office but the schools shut down... I have no idea what to do then.

Any input and recommendations are welcome :)

SchruteB&B
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by SchruteB&B » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am

The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.

katrid11
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by katrid11 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 am

We found that online schooling was spotty. We got lucky with our teachers but others were not so lucky. Some teachers who are renowned in the classroom were not great online.

We will likely get some choices as well. I am waiting to hear. We will likely have our kids in school as much as possible b/c we believe there will be a 2nd wave in NJ and we would prefer some social interaction to start with.

It just sucks overall. especially since daycare studies are showing that COVID is not spreading there - 1.11% of 45,000 kids in 906 open daycares were positive. less than 2% of the staff were positive. It is not to say someone wont get sick but I would rather see the schools open and the bars closed. Sounds silly to protect the kids when the rate of transmission is far less when we let 20-30yr olds hang around in a bar and get 100s sick in a weekend.

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mmmodem
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by mmmodem » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:56 am

As others have said, the situation stinks and I don't fault anyone for the decision they choose. Our school hasn't made a decision yet but on the survey they sent us, it was remote, hybrid, or in person. We chose in person.

Quite simply, we have to work. Our employers are open so we we need the children to go to school. That's it. If we completely shut down again and one of us doesn't have to work, then, we can entertain remote or hybrid schooling. If schools are shutdown, I would expect childcare centers to be shutdown as well.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by lazydavid » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 pm

We voted in-person. Our district did a good job with remote learning in the spring, but my son was done with his entire day in <2 hours every day. He needs the additional engagement from being there.

getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:35 pm

I voted in-person, with masks. Kids around the world are back in school with masks. Our homeschooling experience was okay but the kids need interaction with classmates. And I worry for the kids who aren't as well placed as we were to manage learning at home.

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greg24
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by greg24 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:47 pm

Data appears to show that transmission among children is low.

Our two teens being at home 100% of the time was a bad situation for their mental health.

This is bad for everyone. I'm tentatively in favor of in-class attendance in the fall.

Good luck to all.

coalcracker
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by coalcracker » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:51 pm

From limited sampling of the opinions of a few dozen parents, it seems the younger the child the worse the virtual school experience. My rising first-grader had a mediocre home school experience: about 1 hour of face time with teachers, with the rest of the schoolwork burden on the parents/nanny. Essentially all of it used a tablet.

Our friends worked from home without childcare help, and essentially stopped virtual school for their kindergartner after a couple of weeks.

Our school is keeping all options open, but if there is an in-person option I will choose it without hesitation.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by tibbitts » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:00 pm

student5 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm
We tried to get our kids to get used to wearing face masks for a few hours-they did not enjoy it at all. If they went back to school, the face mask part of Covid-19 precautions may be very spotty in the classroom.
I'm old and don't want to wear a mask for a few hours either, but do when I have to.

So the question becomes how severe you can make the punishment for being caught without using a mask properly and/or not distancing sufficiently (say if a classroom is set up with desks a certain distance apart, if a child encroaches on another child's "zone", what will happen?) If you make punishment sufficiently terrifying the kids will wear the masks and stay away from each other. Well, they won't, until they see what happens to a few kids who don't - they're kids, examples will be necessary. So I'd be interested in what kinds of punishments would be effective for different grade levels. Obviously you can't expel kids - many of them would see that as a reward.

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cchrissyy
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by cchrissyy » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:16 pm

my kids and i also wish in-person was possible

but i think you have been given a false choice here

if you pick the reduced in-person plan, sooner or later it will become online-only because of a case among the students or staff. so really your choice is the stability of being online-only from the start, or having an unknown and probably brief bit of in-person time plus the risks of virus exposure, plus the disruption of a sudden change.

i could see going either way on that decision. but it's a mirage to think that in-person education is truly on offer here.

SimonJester
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by SimonJester » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:10 pm

SchruteB&B wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am
The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.

What a great article, 40,000 children at over 1,100 YMCA sites were cared for during the height of the pandemic and not one infected.

"Brown University economist Emily Oster found that, as of Tuesday afternoon, among 916 centers serving more than 20,000 children, just over 1% of staff and 0.16% of children were confirmed infected with the coronavirus."

The risk here seems very low, I would send my children to school. The damage in keeping them locked up another whole school year is far greater...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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celia
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by celia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:30 pm

Here are the results from a survey of parents, students, and teachers in a large urban school district of what they thought about the last semester online learning experience. We need to keep in mind that Bogleheads are not ‘typical’ and we need to look at the entire community.

https://lbpost.com/news/education/surve ... r-in-lbusd

I suspect that in the fall, this district will offer online and in-person with the in-person version having only half the students on campus at the same time (for social distancing).

mgensler
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by mgensler » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:46 pm

Our schools will be taking temperatures at the bus stop. If the kid has a fever they are isolated on the bus and sent directly to the nurse. (Can't deny them entry to the bus as they might not have an adult at the house.) Everyone will be temperature checked at entry to the school. Masks will be required when kids move - bus, hallways, etc. Masks not required in the classroom unless it is crowded. Extra hand washing stations will be setup as well as additional time for washing. 10% of the staff will be tested weekly at no cost to the employee. Meals will be handled on a school by school basis depending on how much room they have. Of course, we will all be ready to pivot if things flare up and need to go to online learning.

Monsterflockster
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Monsterflockster » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:54 pm

mgensler wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:46 pm
Our schools will be taking temperatures at the bus stop. If the kid has a fever they are isolated on the bus and sent directly to the nurse. (Can't deny them entry to the bus as they might not have an adult at the house.) Everyone will be temperature checked at entry to the school. Masks will be required when kids move - bus, hallways, etc. Masks not required in the classroom unless it is crowded. Extra hand washing stations will be setup as well as additional time for washing. 10% of the staff will be tested weekly at no cost to the employee. Meals will be handled on a school by school basis depending on how much room they have. Of course, we will all be ready to pivot if things flare up and need to go to online learning.
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by flaccidsteele » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:07 pm

Our school board asked me in a survey

I picked in person, in class, all day
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Rkoa63
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Rkoa63 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:26 pm

We reluctantly decided on 100% online for our kid. We spoke with our pediatrician yesterday to get the opinion of someone other than a politician or "Aunt Susie" on Facebook and he favored 100% online if it was a viable option. We told him we were worried about our child's mental health and socialization since we only have one and he said, "what would mess them up more, not going to school for a year or two? Or possibly a dead mommy, daddy, grandma or grandpa?" Since my parents are both in their mid 60's and would be helping us with shuttling to and from school, I just didn't want to take the risk with getting them sick.

My wife and I both work full-time so we're not exactly sure how this is going to work out, but the district has given us the option to change our decision at any point during the school year. We decided that jobs are replaceable and family isn't, so we're going to continue to hunker down as best as we can.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:39 pm

One viewpoint from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families."

https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019- ... n-schools/

Every family has to balance the risk/benefits for their situation IMO.

essbeer
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by essbeer » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:48 pm

I want my kids to go to school, but I'm just having a hard time envisioning how this is going to work. Social distancing -- physically impossible in our already over-crowded school. Masks -- I can't get my kids to keep them on for five minutes. Temperature checks and hand sanitation -- its going to take most of the morning just letting the kids into the building.

People are considering this from the "best for the children" angle, but you have many teachers who are in risk groups. I think the teachers are far less enthusiastic about a return to normal. Not just teachers but staff and bus drivers, etc. The constant absenteeism will be very disruptive. If they shutdown schools every time there is a confirmed infection we may end up with schools that are mostly closed anyway.

I hope I'm being pessimistic.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by NeuroDragn » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:56 pm

JAZZISCOOL wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:39 pm
One viewpoint from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school.

Every family has to balance the risk/benefits for their situation IMO.
I think the AAP is more concerned (and rightfully so) about the population of kids as a whole - abuse, neglect, hunger - are very real issues for many families across the country. These are at least somewhat mitigated by schools. I think there is less evidence for the actual educational benefit for in-person learning vs virtual learning. Prior studies had huge selection bias. For the first time ever virtual programs are going to have kids who aren't there because they have special circumstances (bullying, world class athletes, shared custody/atypical living situations, non-traditional belief systems).

Anyway - we are sending our 1st grader to virtual public charter school. They provide a laptop, printer and pay for our internet. Our circumstances allow us to be home to help but they provide daily live-video instruction. Interestingly it has a better grade on some of the websites than our local district. From going to info sessions I was told multiple times that they typically have 5-10 families per section but they are now giving info to 100s of families at these sessions. Interest has certainly picked up.

If the fall is going to be fragmented, half online, unsafe, constant closures, we figure having proven (15 yr history) online instruction for the next year for an elementary school student is no big deal. It isn't realistic for everyone, but for those who can swing it with a parent at home, I don't know why you wouldn't give it a strong consideration.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by mikeyzito22 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 pm

SchruteB&B wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am
The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.
In the very same article:

"Our educators are overwhelmingly not comfortable returning to schools," said Tina Williams, president of Fairfax County Federation of Teachers. "They fear for their lives, the lives of their students and the lives of their families."

So, your kids may not transmit it to other kids, but have you thought of all the teachers, custodians, and other folks who work in schools?

Pigeon
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Pigeon » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:45 pm

Virtual, it's not the better educational experience, but it's better than spreading this deadly disease.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by flaccidsteele » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:49 pm

Rkoa63 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:26 pm
he said, "what would mess them up more, not going to school for a year or two? Or possibly a dead mommy, daddy, grandma or grandpa?"
I’m glad I don’t have a doctor like this
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by IMO » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:18 am

Our school district is attempting to come up with options.

Personally from our high school kid and other's we know in other physical areas outside our state/district, the concept of a typical public school going to an online program for kids was very poor overall. A hodgepodge of assignments that were self learned, many teachers who didn't seem very accountable to be available during normal work hours (some were good). Teachers were unable to adapt to online situations and could not even provide simple on-line YouTube video lectures for the students. The norm was "no kid can go down in grade" at our school and at many other schools districts in multiple states from people we know or talked to about the issues. My kid is a smart student and there was absolutely no challenge provided by hodgepodge format.

So on our options, if it is for the standard teachers providing an on-line education, that's a definite no go. If we go to on-line classes, we will opt for an actual developed on-line program that has on-line lectures/presentations/audio-visual, etc.

There seems to be an option being considered, such as some kids on 1 day, others come on another day, or doing this week by week augmented by on-line education. Honestly, just seems like more time is going to be spent dealing with the wacky schedules than teaching the kids. I think this hybrid option will just end up being a mess, especially when I just 1 kid gets exposed and tests positive.

I doubt full time school will be an option, but it were, I'd opt to go back to that format. However, our kid does fine with dedicated on-line programs as he's augmented his education taking on-line courses before the whole covid thing. As such, I suspect we'll end up going with a dedicated on-line program as I noted above. On the positive, it allows more flexibility for higher level sport participation/training. I'm free to supervise at home.

But what really bothers me about the whole thing is that the kids are essentially not getting harmed by contracting covid. From what I've seen in multiple states, most people are carrying on normally with many not even using masks or social distancing. We act like there's this perfect mask wearing, social distancing world going on and that physically going to school would be the only means of exposure for kids and the general population. People are out there everyday already "risking their lives" for many of the day to day jobs in the world. Additionally, most people are already going about their daily non-work lives "risking their lives" regardless if school is physically held or not. Those already going about their daily lives with all it's exposure are many of the teachers, custodians, bus drivers, etc.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by jrmillions » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:45 am

As a FF/EMT in a large city, I personally don’t see or hear of many cases of Corona. I only heard of 1 child testing positive since March. (He is the son of a firefighter that had it. Both recovered quickly)
That being said, my son is a good student and likes school. He misses the social aspect of school. So if the in person option is available, he will use that.

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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by SchruteB&B » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 am

mikeyzito22 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 pm
SchruteB&B wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am
The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.
In the very same article:

"Our educators are overwhelmingly not comfortable returning to schools," said Tina Williams, president of Fairfax County Federation of Teachers. "They fear for their lives, the lives of their students and the lives of their families."

So, your kids may not transmit it to other kids, but have you thought of all the teachers, custodians, and other folks who work in schools?
The teachers fear for the lives of their students? That does not seem to jibe with the evidence I’ve seen. My understanding is that for children, the risk is very low. And my read of the two articles I posted was that children did not transmit to other children or to their teachers. And just to add another anecdote, the teachers in my child’s district were surveyed and the majority do want a return to in person instruction.

Elysium
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Elysium » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:33 am

My kids will attend online classes until is has been declared safe for everyone to return to schools. We are not thinking twice about the option to chose between partial in-person vs full time online. Class rooms instructions are overrated IMO and so are the social interactions, the next gen already prefer connected through the digital means even when they go in-person, we enjoy spending more time with kids at home and having ability to see actually what they learn. We are also able to play a more active role in their learning. They also have additional learning outside of school based learning, all of this will keep them academically in good standing. As for social interactions, my kids are bonding with each other better since they are at home and spending more time together. Obviously the longer it goes then we all have to figure out how it changes life for all of us, but short term should be fine. I understand situation is not same for all.

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jhfenton
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by jhfenton » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 am

Our urban school district has announced a 50/50 in-person/online school plan for the fall, but the vote was close (4-3) between that plan and 5-days of in-person instruction. (It sounds as if they'll divide students into A and B pods and alternate days.) We have two high schoolers in the highest-rated high school in the state, so they'll be fine either way. But I feel for the parents of elementary school kids who will have to deal with 50% child care and home schooling for an entire school year.

And even for high schoolers, some things just need to be in person. Our younger son is starting Greek for the first time, and language instruction needs to be in-person, especially at the very beginning. And the second half of his theatre class last spring was pretty much wasted.

The school board is getting a lot of push back on their decision, especially with only one vote needed to flip the decision. But a large survey of parents, showed a lot of concern about returning to class. So I don't know what they'll end up doing.

ddurrett896
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by ddurrett896 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:08 am

In person, in class, all day

mikeyzito22
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by mikeyzito22 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:23 am

SchruteB&B wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 am
mikeyzito22 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 pm
SchruteB&B wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am
The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.
In the very same article:

"Our educators are overwhelmingly not comfortable returning to schools," said Tina Williams, president of Fairfax County Federation of Teachers. "They fear for their lives, the lives of their students and the lives of their families."

So, your kids may not transmit it to other kids, but have you thought of all the teachers, custodians, and other folks who work in schools?
The teachers fear for the lives of their students? That does not seem to jibe with the evidence I’ve seen. My understanding is that for children, the risk is very low. And my read of the two articles I posted was that children did not transmit to other children or to their teachers. And just to add another anecdote, the teachers in my child’s district were surveyed and the majority do want a return to in person instruction.
So, What if a teacher is immuno-compromised? Do they get to teach online? If there is an outbreak, do they have to use all their sick time to stay home for 14 days? What if the teacher has school aged children?

Will the district pay for childcare when that child isn’t in school, but the teacher has to report everyday due to a staggered schedule. With hiring and salary freezes how does a teacher afford that? Will the district provide ppe for employees?

Will the district have clear plans if they need to shut down regarding virtual learning? Will the district mandate that the teacher has to be at school full time while kids don’t? What do low income families do for care when their child is only going two to three days a week? Will district technology be available for POC if they get sick? Will communities of color be provided adequate internet during the pandemic?

I don’t know how wealthy of a district you live in wherein the majority of teachers want to go back, but until those questions can be answered (and please answer them) our teachers feel like they cannot provide adequate education to ALL students. I’d be curious how you would feel going back to work if you were a teacher then.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by ClevrChico » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:25 am

We have a similar decision to make and will be opting for 100% virtual. We will revisit things after the first term of school. (In late October.)

DS had some kind of flu (or possibly Corona) in February. I caught it from taking care of him and it was possibly the sickest I've ever been. I do not wish to repeat.

new2bogle
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by new2bogle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am

Our school district has sent a survey and we have voted for in-person schooling but will forgo use of buses and instead drive them daily. My wife is stay at home, virtual schooling would not put us in any difficulty, yet we still opted for in-person schooling due the social interactions that we feel are a huge part of learning.

The AAP guidance has also played strongly in our opinions.

Thegame14
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Thegame14 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:38 am

my 5 year old is on an IEP so he will only have about 8 kids in his class, but what about the rest of the school if someone gest covid-19, does just one class shut down or the entire school?

Also he has asthma, so that complicates things a lot more, we are likely going to keep him home for a few weeks and ask the school how they can 100% guarantee he wont get covid-19, which I assume is impossible, so then we will have to keep him home, but that is the worst thing for him being on an IEP, he gets to share a PARA for his extra help, which he cant get online.

EnjoyTheJourney
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by EnjoyTheJourney » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am

It makes sense that many cannot or would not consider homeschooling, given a need to have both spouses work and/or other commitments / obstacles. But, it's still a bit surprising to see no discussion here about homeschooling, which has seen a big uptick in interest since remote learning began.

Homeschooling puts the parents in charge. There is no need to react to whatever arrangements are being put together on relatively short notice by others and there is considerably less uncertainty about whether or not schooling arrangements might change partway through the upcoming school year. Plus, research that has been done about homeschooling has found that learning outcomes tend to be very good.

We're leaning strongly toward homeschooling for the upcoming school year.
Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

squirm
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by squirm » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:53 am

I laugh when the elementary schools said they'll keep kids safe by staggering them in. The virus is already out of control in many areas and we're in the middle of summer. When winter hits, what happens when a kid is just sick with the common cold? Shut everything down? At our school, the kids are on top of each other everywhere and it's basically a sardine can, smashed. There's no way they can control any virus no matter what cleanliness they try and do it's not going to work .... That and people don't really practice good hygiene, i still see a lot of people with their finger up their noses digging around on my morning commute.

We'll be keeping ours home, they'll probably get a better education then what we got last semester which was a joke.

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mmmodem
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by mmmodem » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:03 am

I fail to see why in person schooling with proper social distancing measures will be any less safe than a grocery store or the plant I work in. If schools are unsafe then no one should be working except essentials and we are shutdown. Teachers don't want to get the virus? Please... The fast-food worker and the package delivery person making minimum wage is also scared.

I understand immunocompromised families will be more adverse to in person school. I say have both. Put a screen on the board for all those doing virtual school at home. It will help with social distancing for those who do come in person. That is how my work meetings are conducted. Is that the best solution? No. Is that the safest solution? No. It is a solution unless we want to press pause again.

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greg24
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by greg24 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:07 am

Thegame14 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:38 am
ask the school how they can 100% guarantee he wont get covid-19, which I assume is impossible
That is impossible.

You can keep him home from school, and it is still impossible to 100% guarantee he'll never catch it.

Thegame14
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Thegame14 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 am

mmmodem wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:03 am
I fail to see why in person schooling with proper social distancing measures will be any less safe than a grocery store or the plant I work in. If schools are unsafe then no one should be working except essentials and we are shutdown. Teachers don't want to get the virus? Please... The fast-food worker and the package delivery person making minimum wage is also scared.

I understand immunocompromised families will be more adverse to in person school. I say have both. Put a screen on the board for all those doing virtual school at home. It will help with social distancing for those who do come in person. That is how my work meetings are conducted. Is that the best solution? No. Is that the safest solution? No. It is a solution unless we want to press pause again.
people in a grocery store should all be over age 18 to be able to drive there so they should be able to wear a mask at all times. how do you explain to a 5 year old who has asthma to wear a mask all day long which would be close to impossible for an adult with asthma to do?

Thegame14
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by Thegame14 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am

mmmodem wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:03 am
I fail to see why in person schooling with proper social distancing measures will be any less safe than a grocery store or the plant I work in. If schools are unsafe then no one should be working except essentials and we are shutdown. Teachers don't want to get the virus? Please... The fast-food worker and the package delivery person making minimum wage is also scared.

I understand immunocompromised families will be more adverse to in person school. I say have both. Put a screen on the board for all those doing virtual school at home. It will help with social distancing for those who do come in person. That is how my work meetings are conducted. Is that the best solution? No. Is that the safest solution? No. It is a solution unless we want to press pause again.
and how do you keep that child contained in front of a screen all day when both parents have to work, even if they work from home, they have to be working not supervising their child doing their school work...

JLJL
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Re: Elementary school in Fall - choose Virtual or In-person

Post by JLJL » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:26 am

SchruteB&B wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 am
mikeyzito22 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 pm
SchruteB&B wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:44 am
The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends in person school and cites “ "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.“

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -this-fall

Of particular note to me was the experience of YMCA child care centers in NYC caring for the children of essential workers:

Throughout the pandemic, many child care centers have stayed open for the children of front-line workers — everyone from doctors to grocery store clerks. YMCA of the USA and New York City's Department of Education have been caring for, collectively, tens of thousands of children since March, and both tell NPR they have no reports of coronavirus clusters or outbreaks.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88231664 ... -lockdowns

I am sending my child to school this fall if we have that option.
In the very same article:

"Our educators are overwhelmingly not comfortable returning to schools," said Tina Williams, president of Fairfax County Federation of Teachers. "They fear for their lives, the lives of their students and the lives of their families."

So, your kids may not transmit it to other kids, but have you thought of all the teachers, custodians, and other folks who work in schools?
The teachers fear for the lives of their students? That does not seem to jibe with the evidence I’ve seen. My understanding is that for children, the risk is very low. And my read of the two articles I posted was that children did not transmit to other children or to their teachers. And just to add another anecdote, the teachers in my child’s district were surveyed and the majority do want a return to in person instruction.
thank you for correct use of 'jibe' you must have had good in-class schooling

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