Refinance Mega Thread

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
nic3456
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

ma21n2 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:53 am I already did appraisal with Better.com and have the report, but I may have to find a new lender now because Better.com has some issue with my 2nd mortgage that I’m keeping. They were supposed to let me know whether they can proceed by yesterday, but they didn’t. Better.com was really good when they wanted my business but then after I locked it’s been a completely different experience. The processing expert doesn’t respond to my emails and doesn’t call me when we have an appointment.

Thankfully I didn’t have to pay for appraisal because of the AMEX deal. If I switch lenders now, would I be able to transfer the appraisal from Better.com to the new lender?

What issue are they having? I'm in process now and am also keeping my 2nd (or at least plan to)
seawolf21
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

frankandbeans wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:00 am
seawolf21 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:56 am
frankandbeans wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:55 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:28 pm Confused when you wrote regs don’t allow transfer tax to increase. Source?

12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i).
Is your transfer tax is section C or E of CD? It should be section E and if so, 12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i) doesn’t apply as it is not a settlement service; it’s a tax.
CFPB is explicit about this in its official comment to the rule. It sounds like you disagree with CFPB's interpretation of its regulations but I think that's beyond the scope of the forum rules.

1. Requirement. Section 1026.19(e)(3)(i) provides the general rule that an estimated closing cost disclosed under § 1026.19(e) is not in good faith if the charge paid by or imposed on the consumer exceeds the amount originally disclosed under § 1026.19(e)(1)(i). Although § 1026.19(e)(3)(ii) and (iii) provide exceptions to the general rule, the charges that are generally subject to § 1026.19(e)(3)(i) include, but are not limited to, the following:

i. Fees paid to the creditor.

ii. Fees paid to a mortgage broker.

iii. Fees paid to an affiliate of the creditor or a mortgage broker.

iv. Fees paid to an unaffiliated third party if the creditor did not permit the consumer to shop for a third party service provider for a settlement service.

v. Transfer taxes.
You’re right read the wrong section of regs. :)

Thanks.
frankandbeans
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

seawolf21 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:05 am
You’re right read the wrong section of regs. :)

Thanks.
My bill for legal fees is in the mail :sharebeer
ChiKid24
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
No need to be targeted. Anyone can apply. See link here: www.better.com/amex
ma21n2
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:25 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ma21n2 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:04 am
ma21n2 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:53 am I already did appraisal with Better.com and have the report, but I may have to find a new lender now because Better.com has some issue with my 2nd mortgage that I’m keeping. They were supposed to let me know whether they can proceed by yesterday, but they didn’t. Better.com was really good when they wanted my business but then after I locked it’s been a completely different experience. The processing expert doesn’t respond to my emails and doesn’t call me when we have an appointment.

Thankfully I didn’t have to pay for appraisal because of the AMEX deal. If I switch lenders now, would I be able to transfer the appraisal from Better.com to the new lender?

What issue are they having? I'm in process now and am also keeping my 2nd (or at least plan to)
It’s a loan from employer with no interest but has a balloon payment due within the next 5 years. I refinanced last year and this wasn’t an issue.
jharkin
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

Update on LenderFi - as mentioned last page they are definitely offering better rates over the phone.

I'm in a superconforming, as of this morning the web tool was showing 3.375 with no costs.

On the phone they quoted me 3.125 with no costs + their rate guarantee to rewrite the loan for free if the rate drops more than 0.25 in the first 6 mo of servicing. Right now they are trying to see if they can get the appraisal waived and sweeten the deal some more. :mrgreen:

I'm trying to see if my existing lender (NBKC/Costo) will beat, but I don't think they can.

Better doesn't offer loans in my state yet (MA) or else Id be all over that Amex deal :oops:
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:43 am their rate guarantee to rewrite the loan for free if the rate drops more than 0.25 in the first 6 mo of servicing.
Outside third party influences on offers (e.g., Amex with Better) that is a great competitive advantage. If at the end of the day I was looking at two loans with the same rate and cost, one with LenderFi and one elsewhere, that would tip me to LenderFi as it would be less of a headache to get the lower rate vs. doing a full refi again.
jharkin
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

I need to see it in writing to be sure its really as good as they are claiming, but yeah I am strongly leaning toward LenderFi this time. Ive had 3 prior loans with the Costco program and they have been decent but this deal looks like it may be too good to pass up.
mervinj7
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:43 am their rate guarantee to rewrite the loan for free if the rate drops more than 0.25 in the first 6 mo of servicing.
Outside third party influences on offers (e.g., Amex with Better) that is a great competitive advantage. If at the end of the day I was looking at two loans with the same rate and cost, one with LenderFi and one elsewhere, that would tip me to LenderFi as it would be less of a headache to get the lower rate vs. doing a full refi again.
Isn't LenderFi the one that claws back lender credits if you refinance within six months with someone else? They need to offer that guarantee if they don't want to screw over their customers.
jharkin
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

Could be. I'm looking over the paperwork now. They managed to waive appraisal, AND got an escrow waiver with no change to the rate. 3.125, no fee.

Costco program couldn't match within half a point.
jus10
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:35 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jus10 »

I've been a longtime lurker on these amazing forums, but this is my first post. I've been checking here to make sure I'm getting the best possible refinance deal, and thought I'd share the incredible rate I got from LoanDepot (on May 30), which appears to be much better than what I've seen posted here recently
.
Refinancing $470k on a house worth ~$1M (hard to say in the current market) in Oakland CA 94611.
15y fixed at 2.375% with a $2778 credit
total loan costs $2557 (including $1595 origination)
I have to escrow taxes & insurance for 1 year but I was told I could get out of the escrow arrangement after that.

I couldn't believe the rate when they offered it to me (I had previously been paying 3.625 on a 30y fixed with 20 years to go). I had to back out of a pending transaction with Northpointe at 2.65 (losing my $400 deposit), but it was worth it.
koryg75
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:48 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by koryg75 »

Has anyone had good results using the $2500 Amex credit offer with Rocket Mortgage for a refi? Better doesn’t serve my state.
MrJedi
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

With a LenderFi I got a better deal after filling out the full application as well and getting a real LE vs. just looking at the quick online form estimate. Appraisal waived too.

Better wouldn't play along and match though, I was hoping to get a match and then the Amex promo on top. Maybe my loan balance is too small for them to bother (120k on a condo). I'm satisfied with what I'm getting though (30 year 3.375%, A+B+C+E-credits = $50, coming from 30 year 3.875%). Was hoping for the 3.0% no cost that others are getting but I won't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Buzzhead
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Buzzhead »

So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
Gadget
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

MrJedi wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:07 pm With a LenderFi I got a better deal after filling out the full application as well and getting a real LE vs. just looking at the quick online form estimate. Appraisal waived too.

Better wouldn't play along and match though, I was hoping to get a match and then the Amex promo on top. Maybe my loan balance is too small for them to bother (120k on a condo). I'm satisfied with what I'm getting though (30 year 3.375%, A+B+C+E-credits = $50, coming from 30 year 3.875%). Was hoping for the 3.0% no cost that others are getting but I won't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Someone else in the thread said the sweet spot for competing offers is $200k-$500k. Outside of that, someplaces won't compete as much. Not sure if they said just below $200k or also for above $500k. It's a long thread...
Gadget
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

koryg75 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:00 pm Has anyone had good results using the $2500 Amex credit offer with Rocket Mortgage for a refi? Better doesn’t serve my state.
I couldn't get Rocket to compete because Rocket would only take an official Loan Estimate from a competitor on the same day the LE was printed. Mine was from yesterday. Their offers without a competing same day estimate were worse than LenderFi for me, even after the 2500 AMEX credit.

Bottom line, if you use Rocket, be sure to get them to compete on your best offer on the exact same day as the LE you have.
psmoove
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psmoove »

After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.

Aside that, it was a fairly smooth process. Good communication from their employees throughout. Happy with the rate that we are getting (2.5%, 15 year, $392K loan, CA) and I received enough lender credits that will pay for all costs and most of the prepaids. And of course the $2500 Amex credit is just icing on top. Thanks to everyone on this thread for all the tips and advice!
GT99
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GT99 »

Buzzhead wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
I refinanced 8 months ago and am looking to do the same now. I heard good things about Better so got a quote from them. It was literally higher than any of the quotes I'd received when I refinanced 8 months ago. I told them that and asked if they could do better (sorry, pun not intended). They did not respond, but they did keep calling me and texting telling me how much they wanted to work with me. I told them to take me off their list. That was a couple weeks ago - they still call me every day.

I had a similar experience With Loan Depot. I will not do business with either.
easye418
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by easye418 »

Buzzhead wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
Agreed, process has been horrendous, the team sucks. Disorganized, the first lady I talked to was ignorant. I thought about bailing but the $2500 credit makes any other deal not make any sense.

I locked too early (3.25%) but hey, can't time the market perfectly. $2500 costs - $1815 lender credit -$2500 Amex Credit = $1800 gain.

Lenderfi was able to get me to 3.0% with $1,100 lender credit, 6 year breakeven. I think I will be out of this house in 4 so don't want to gamble.

Oh well, money is money. I shave off 4 years of payments this way. Win
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mervinj7 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 am
jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:43 am their rate guarantee to rewrite the loan for free if the rate drops more than 0.25 in the first 6 mo of servicing.
Outside third party influences on offers (e.g., Amex with Better) that is a great competitive advantage. If at the end of the day I was looking at two loans with the same rate and cost, one with LenderFi and one elsewhere, that would tip me to LenderFi as it would be less of a headache to get the lower rate vs. doing a full refi again.
Isn't LenderFi the one that claws back lender credits if you refinance within six months with someone else? They need to offer that guarantee if they don't want to screw over their customers.
They claw back lender credits. Not that I would pay points, but if you did, you could still get a rate reduction without having “lost” the points paid in. Please do note I’m guessing here as my LenderFi offer was not competitive and thus, didn’t read through all the disclosures they had sent me. I could easily have some details wrong.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Buzzhead wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
I can’t help but feel how similar such a post would be if we substitute Better.com with Vanguard, prior to no-fee brokerage being commonly available. :)

Full disclosure: I’m one of those people that have all holdings (I can control) in Vanguard funds/ETFs, but hold them at a different financial institution.
mt2k
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

Closed today with Quicken Loans through an agent I have used in the past.
Rate 2.99%, locked on 5/21 , 30 yrs, no closing cost, no escrow. I had to pay the prepaids $315.
Loan amount: $370K, 70% LTV
easye418
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by easye418 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:04 am
ma21n2 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:53 am I already did appraisal with Better.com and have the report, but I may have to find a new lender now because Better.com has some issue with my 2nd mortgage that I’m keeping. They were supposed to let me know whether they can proceed by yesterday, but they didn’t. Better.com was really good when they wanted my business but then after I locked it’s been a completely different experience. The processing expert doesn’t respond to my emails and doesn’t call me when we have an appointment.

Thankfully I didn’t have to pay for appraisal because of the AMEX deal. If I switch lenders now, would I be able to transfer the appraisal from Better.com to the new lender?

What issue are they having? I'm in process now and am also keeping my 2nd (or at least plan to)
I subordinated my 2nd lien, went fine through Better, just took long as hell.
1andDone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 1andDone »

Buzzhead wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
Agreed!
WhyRWeHere
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
iridum
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:16 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

I locked with boa when they were doing relationship discounts at 3.125% 30 yr fixed and they were supposed to give me a .25% discount. Closing costs were around $4800. Was going to go to closing next week with boa but Last week I received an offer of 2.875 30 fixed with no closing cost. Loan amount of 765k. BOA refused to match anymore because of the economic conditions. Checked with better.com with the new offer i received and they beat it by giving me $900 after covering abc. My initial app did not capture the amex offer and they added it retroactively. Had to pay the appraisal fees to lock the rate. Appraisal not being waived by underwriting. I am being told that appraisal cost will be refunded before closing. For reasons beyond me, the Better.com loan estimate has the lenders title insurance at 1/3 of what I had with the other lenders. From what I understand, they cannot change abc after locking, so fingers crossed. Till now I have had decent experience with the better.com team. They have been responsive and on top of the application. If it matters i am in MD.
Gadget
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 pm
psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
How does one go about doing this? Is the title insurance policy part of the stack of papers you get from a mortgage? You just scanned it and sent to Better?
Markr867
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Markr867 »

We are about to close tomorrow with Northpointe on a 15 year refinance, and I have to say, the process has been pretty awful. They offered us a great rate back in mid-April, but almost every step of the way, we had to ping the mortgage rep in order to keep the process moving. We wouldn't hear anything, but as soon as we e-mailed, magically something happened. They had to extend our rate lock because they couldn't get all of the documents in order (despite us being extremely responsive and returning all requests within a few hours at most), and we still have not received a final closing disclosure for tomorrow despite asking multiple times.

Would steer clear. Maybe they are overwhelmed with the number of requests that came in during April, but that shouldn't fall on us as a customer.
WhyRWeHere
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:08 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 pm
psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
How does one go about doing this? Is the title insurance policy part of the stack of papers you get from a mortgage? You just scanned it and sent to Better?
For my prior closing it was sent to me as a PDF and I just emailed that file over. I got the title commitment/binder prior to closing. It wasn't part of all of the closing documents.
Gadget
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:15 pm
Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:08 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 pm
psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
How does one go about doing this? Is the title insurance policy part of the stack of papers you get from a mortgage? You just scanned it and sent to Better?
For my prior closing it was sent to me as a PDF and I just emailed that file over. I got the title commitment/binder prior to closing. It wasn't part of all of the closing documents.
I have (from the same house) all the papers signed from when we first bought the house, and the last refinance we did. I don't see title insurance papers anywhere. Just title insurance costs.

Think it's still worth asking Better to give the reissue rate? Or you specifically have to have the documentation?
edudumb
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by edudumb »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 pm
psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
wow, didn't know that... thanks
just_me
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by just_me »

I could use some refinance advice.

I have a first and a HELOC. I wanted to consolidate them into one loan but Better offered a 15-year and a cash-out - I haven't locked in a rate but I am hoping for 2.50%. My goal is not a smaller payment but obviously saving in interest costs while also paying off the house and HELOC in a short time even though I am moving from a 10-year to a 15-year loan.

Better is offering $150,381.00 at 15 years with a $28,847.00 cash-out. The cash would be used to pay off the second.

I also have an outside offer to consolidate both loans to $153k at a blended rate of 2.5% and blended apr of 2.83% but $4,600 in closing costs and cash to close $73.00. With the AMEX offer at Better, this refi doesn't make sense.

The refi payment in either scenario is, of course, lower (about $1,025). So doing the math, if I don't plan to make the lower payment but I keep making the same payment I am making now $1571, then this all seems to make fiscal sense to refi. I should still save money in interest although I am extending my note from 10 to 15 years.

Is there a scenario where this doesn't make sense and just keep the loans as-is? If I keep the loans as-is, I would continue paying the $200 extra on the Heloc, and then when that's paid off in about 4.5 years, apply that extra payment to the 1st mortgage.

Originally a 25-year loan, no PMI or Escrow required.
10 years left on the 1st mortgage
Original loan amount $218,818.00.
Annual Mortgage Taxes: $1153.70

1st mortgage
Balance: $120,727
Rate: 4.25% locked
Payment: $1,231.00

Our 2nd (heloc)
Balance: $28,356.56
Rate: 3.25 % adj
Payment $340.00
Actual Payment $540 (Paying an extra $200 per month). Estimate pay off in 4.5 years with the extra $200.
I don't expect the HELOC to jump in rate soon.

Current payments total $1,571.00.

Zillow Value is $240,000.00
dacalo
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:09 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dacalo »

jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:43 am Update on LenderFi - as mentioned last page they are definitely offering better rates over the phone.

I'm in a superconforming, as of this morning the web tool was showing 3.375 with no costs.

On the phone they quoted me 3.125 with no costs + their rate guarantee to rewrite the loan for free if the rate drops more than 0.25 in the first 6 mo of servicing. Right now they are trying to see if they can get the appraisal waived and sweeten the deal some more. :mrgreen:

I'm trying to see if my existing lender (NBKC/Costo) will beat, but I don't think they can.

Better doesn't offer loans in my state yet (MA) or else Id be all over that Amex deal :oops:
Wasn't the case for me, called twice and kept directing me to their website. Maybe when you called they were updating the website?
Anonymous Coward
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Anonymous Coward »

Long thread, many many hits on AmEx.

May I ask, what is the mechanism for collecting the $2500 statement credit with the Better.com deal?

Specifically, when does one convey the information that links the Better.com refinance with the AmEx card in question?
WhyRWeHere
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:19 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:15 pm
Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:08 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 pm
psmoove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:22 pm After 4 weeks, I am finally closing with Better on Friday. I was not happy with the title company they used (Title365) as there were numerous delays during the process. I had initially wanted to use my own title company but Better convinced me not to because they said it would delay the process. Well, it eventually got delayed anyway. I complained and they issued me another $250 in lender credits as a recourse.
I was planning on using my own title company with Better, because I thought I needed to do that to get a reissue rate. For those that don't know, if you have your present title insurance policy, you can ask for the reissue rate. I did this with Better and they changed my premium to the lower reissue rate. So I didn't need to use my own title company. It's about a 40% savings off of the title insurance premium. It's saved about $500 for me. The exact savings may depend on each state. Not sure about that. And there is a limit as to how old the present title policy is at the time of refinancing to qualify for the reissue rate. I think it's no more than 10 years, and also might be different by state. Not sure about that either. I don't think it's right but lenders and title companies never ask you upfront about this. But they will give you the lower rate if you ask and send them your present policy.
How does one go about doing this? Is the title insurance policy part of the stack of papers you get from a mortgage? You just scanned it and sent to Better?
For my prior closing it was sent to me as a PDF and I just emailed that file over. I got the title commitment/binder prior to closing. It wasn't part of all of the closing documents.
I have (from the same house) all the papers signed from when we first bought the house, and the last refinance we did. I don't see title insurance papers anywhere. Just title insurance costs.

Think it's still worth asking Better to give the reissue rate? Or you specifically have to have the documentation?
This article may be helpful. https://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Ti ... Rates.html
2quiker
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

Buzzhead wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm So far not impressed with Better.com. They seem worse to me and your"concierge" is a joke- always unreachable. I'd bail if it weren't for the $2500 amex credit after closing.
I agree with you, I wasn't impressed with their customer service at all. On my first Refi I went One True Loan, they were awesome. Looking at rates everyday in hopes that they go down so I can refi with One True Loan. People should check them only draw back is they only do loans in CA, OR & Idaho.
METT-TC
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by METT-TC »

Just locked with Better today on a 30 year fixed. 2.75% rate with a 2.783% APR (I'm happy with that APR). Loan value $290k This is coming down from a 4.125% APR from 2017.

40% LTV with loan costs at $1773. We should see the AMEX $2,500.

Better would NOT play ball until I was able to provide a competing loan estimate (pushed to them last night). Once I did that, they beat it by $1000, etc, etc. But nada without.

Thanks for the input from others-Bogleheads saved me thousands with knowing who to push to/compete.
Familyman2012
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

METT-TC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:19 pm Just locked with Better today on a 30 year fixed. 2.75% rate with a 2.783% APR (I'm happy with that APR). Loan value $290k This is coming down from a 4.125% APR from 2017.

40% LTV with loan costs at $1773. We should see the AMEX $2,500.

Better would NOT play ball until I was able to provide a competing loan estimate (pushed to them last night). Once I did that, they beat it by $1000, etc, etc. But nada without.

Thanks for the input from others-Bogleheads saved me thousands with knowing who to push to/compete.
where was the loan estimate from that you presented to Better?

2 lenders that I've worked with won't provide me a official loan estimate until I start the application process
Brain
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

insahmniak wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:14 am
Brain wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:32 am
Better beat them with a 2.5% with no points, no fees and $1600 in credits. Toss in the $2500 from Amex and that sounded pretty good! So I locked on Monday night, the lowest day for a 15y.

Loan Depot came back and asked to compete, but I told him about the Amex deal and he made a legit effort to match it: 2.5%, with net credits of $3000!!!

He was still $800 off from Better, but without the Amex rebate it was the best I've seen yet, so I passed it along to Better to see if they'll match it. And then, hopefully, I'll be able to toss the Amex rebate right back on top.

I'll update once they stop falling over themselves to PAY me to refinance.

Crazy times, indeed.
Quick question from someone new to this:

After locking it's still possible to negotiate even better terms with another competing LE? I locked with Better a week ago.
The only thing you lock is the rate sheet, i.e. how much it costs to buy points to reduce or raise the interest rate. You aren't even locking the specific interest rate. You're locking the entire rate sheet. You can still change your rate after locking, to any other rate on the sheet, but you'll have to pay the listed points cost, or gain a credit if you raise the rate.

When a lender "matches" a competitors offer, they will simply increase their lender credits. This does not affect your rate. But, if they increase the credit enough, it could help pay down the rate.
METT-TC
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by METT-TC »

Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:25 pm
where was the loan estimate from that you presented to Better?

2 lenders that I've worked with won't provide me a official loan estimate until I start the application process
I did a LendingTree mass dispersal and the one I used was from Ladera Lending. They did NOT want to give it to me, but I got far enough along that they had to. Then I used it accordingly. Ladera was competitive, but the AMEX credit knocked them out.
Seattler123
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Seattler123 »

Seattler123 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 am Getting 30 year fixed at 3.125 with 0 points, 0 origination fee, appraisal waived for $620k loan in Seattle area (High balance non-jumbo conforming loan).
This is with a lender I got from Zillow (Sebonic). Still waiting to see if better.com can better this. Their current rates are showing up as 3.75%, so I'll be surprised if they can match this.

Previous mortgage:
06/2019 - Refinance with better.com. $630k loan at 3.75%
06/2018 - Purchase. $650k loan at 4.25%
Haven't heard back from Better.com today but I see better rates today via zillow/bankrate.
Farmers bank of KC and CFBank are the lenders with 3.0% interest rates (with title fees and appraisal if needed). Anyone has any experience with either of these?
DrGrnTum
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum »

Just a quick note on the Better $2,500 Amex bonus.

There have been previous posts were people have checked with Amex and were told that the email on the eligible CC needs to match the email that is in the Better account. People have said that they changed the Better email using the provided utility in the Better account.

My wife has the Amex card and has her own email for that account.

The login for the Better account is my email. This is basically the login username. I was told by Better that this can only be changed by reapplying for the loan again. We can’t do this now because we are too deep in the refi process. I believe the only option I have is to change the email in the Amex account to my email address.

If others have any more information on this please respond.
jharkin
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

I ended up locking with LenderFi today.

Superconforming (600ish on an 800 value)
3.125
Zero cost (1500 lender credit covering all costs)
Waived appraisal
Waived escrow :D

I read the fine print on the rate guarantee. They offer a no cost refi for life if *their* rate drops more than 0.25. The catch is:
1 you have to hold the loan at least 6 months before you can take advantage of this offer
2 if you hold the loan less than 6 months they claw back the credit


Overall I decided it’s worth it, as their rate is at least a quarter point better than anyone else offered me, and if rates drop enough to make a refi worthwhile in less than 6 months eating the 1500 credit probably won’t be that big a deal.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:47 pm I ended up locking with LenderFi today.

Superconforming (600ish on an 800 value)
3.125
Zero cost (1500 lender credit covering all costs)
Waived appraisal
Waived escrow :D

I read the fine print on the rate guarantee. They offer a no cost refi for life if *their* rate drops more than 0.25. The catch is:
1 you have to hold the loan at least 6 months before you can take advantage of this offer
2 if you hold the loan less than 6 months they claw back the credit


Overall I decided it’s worth it, as their rate is at least a quarter point better than anyone else offered me, and if rates drop enough to make a refi worthwhile in less than 6 months eating the 1500 credit probably won’t be that big a deal.
Did you try getting better.com to match/beat the offer? Maybe even get the better.com amex offer. A lot of others managed to do that and better.com does not have a clawback.
jharkin
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:52 pm
jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:47 pm I ended up locking with LenderFi today.

Superconforming (600ish on an 800 value)
3.125
Zero cost (1500 lender credit covering all costs)
Waived appraisal
Waived escrow :D

I read the fine print on the rate guarantee. They offer a no cost refi for life if *their* rate drops more than 0.25. The catch is:
1 you have to hold the loan at least 6 months before you can take advantage of this offer
2 if you hold the loan less than 6 months they claw back the credit


Overall I decided it’s worth it, as their rate is at least a quarter point better than anyone else offered me, and if rates drop enough to make a refi worthwhile in less than 6 months eating the 1500 credit probably won’t be that big a deal.
Did you try getting better.com to match/beat the offer? Maybe even get the better.com amex offer. A lot of others managed to do that and better.com does not have a clawback.
I checked , better doesnt write loans in my state :-( I would have been all over that Amex offer if so.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:04 pm
anon_investor wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:52 pm
jharkin wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:47 pm I ended up locking with LenderFi today.

Superconforming (600ish on an 800 value)
3.125
Zero cost (1500 lender credit covering all costs)
Waived appraisal
Waived escrow :D

I read the fine print on the rate guarantee. They offer a no cost refi for life if *their* rate drops more than 0.25. The catch is:
1 you have to hold the loan at least 6 months before you can take advantage of this offer
2 if you hold the loan less than 6 months they claw back the credit


Overall I decided it’s worth it, as their rate is at least a quarter point better than anyone else offered me, and if rates drop enough to make a refi worthwhile in less than 6 months eating the 1500 credit probably won’t be that big a deal.
Did you try getting better.com to match/beat the offer? Maybe even get the better.com amex offer. A lot of others managed to do that and better.com does not have a clawback.
I checked , better doesnt write loans in my state :-( I would have been all over that Amex offer if so.
Bummer. Congrats though, looks like you still got a pretty good deal.
Gadget
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

DrGrnTum wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:34 pm Just a quick note on the Better $2,500 Amex bonus.

There have been previous posts were people have checked with Amex and were told that the email on the eligible CC needs to match the email that is in the Better account. People have said that they changed the Better email using the provided utility in the Better account.

My wife has the Amex card and has her own email for that account.

The login for the Better account is my email. This is basically the login username. I was told by Better that this can only be changed by reapplying for the loan again. We can’t do this now because we are too deep in the refi process. I believe the only option I have is to change the email in the Amex account to my email address.

If others have any more information on this please respond.
I'm not sure if I'm just not as far in the process, but I just changed my better.com login to match my Amex email. Yes, it changed the account login. It was painless.

In the top right after logging in, under my account, just hit change email. If you don't have that option, maybe you're too far in the process and do need to switch the Amex email instead. In the fine print of the Amex offer, it says the name OR email associated with your eligible card must match. Personally, I'd be pissed if their OR really meant AND, but there's no reason to tempt fate. So I changed my better login to match.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DrGrnTum wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:34 pm The login for the Better account is my email. This is basically the login username. I was told by Better that this can only be changed by reapplying for the loan again. We can’t do this now because we are too deep in the refi process. I believe the only option I have is to change the email in the Amex account to my email address.

If others have any more information on this please respond.
Log into the Better portal, on mobile look at the navigation on the left / on desktop hover over “My account”, on either platform click “Change email”.
Crazy_Aussie
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:19 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Crazy_Aussie »

ChiKid24 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
No need to be targeted. Anyone can apply. See link here: www.better.com/amex
A couple of weeks ago, I wanted to make sure there was no opportunity for Better to squirm out of the Amex credit, so I phoned Amex customer service and asked about the Better Mortgage offer and they confirmed I was eligible and immediately emailed me the link that confirmed the eligibility.
I used that specific link out of that email to apply.
Took only 5 minutes.

More recently there are reports in this thread were many seem to be having success getting Better to add the 'Amex offer' onto their application later in the process. But I do recall at least one poster on this thread was refused when he requested this.
Brain
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

If there's concern about which email you used between Amex and Better, be careful when creating your Better account to double-check if you're going to use one of the single sign-on solutions, like Google. I'm using my Google account to sign into Better, so I don't have the opportunity to change my email on Better's site.
Post Reply