Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone, but most material available at johncbogle.com

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Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone, but most material available at johncbogle.com

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:21 pm

Update: See this post for a response from Vanguard's "communications" (public relations) office.

This thread was triggered by my failure to find an essay I wanted to quote, but in fact The Twelve Pillars of Wisdom is online at johncbogle.com. It is easy to forget that Google Search has not really indexed everything, and as I write this a search on bogle twelve pillars is not finding the copy at johncbogle.com.

Original post:

The Telltale Chart in particular, and

The Bogle Financial Markets Research Center home page, are showing me error pages. Can others reproduce?

The latter, as captured April 12, 2019 by archive.org:

Image

As of 8/19/2019 EDT, 3:14 pm:

Image

If this isn't a temporary glitch, I hope the Bogleheads Forum will approach Vanguard and work with them to get this material transferred to and hosted by bogleheads.org.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:41 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nedsaid » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:33 pm

My guess is that Vanguard is turning the page on Mr. Bogle. In his retirement, he was a bit of a burr under the saddle for Vanguard management. Probably the best thing to do is to host the material here at Bogleheads. I suppose they will always have a tribute page to him but it sounds like the company he founded is moving on.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm

Who has rights to Bogle Financial Markets Research Center now that Mr Bogle is gone? I doubt it would be Vanguard.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by bondsr4me » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:01 pm

nedsaid wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:33 pm
My guess is that Vanguard is turning the page on Mr. Bogle. In his retirement, he was a bit of a burr under the saddle for Vanguard management. Probably the best thing to do is to host the material here at Bogleheads. I suppose they will always have a tribute page to him but it sounds like the company he founded is moving on.
I kinda agree with what you say.

I must admit, if that is the case, it may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me.

I, like so many here, admire and respect Jack Bogle.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by DesertMan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:33 pm

I was willing to give Vanguard the benefit of the doubt despite the seeming push towards higher-margin products and away from what is best for the investor. But if they deliberately deleted a huge chunk of their own legacy, then they have jumped the shark.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm

Perhaps the estate of Mr Bogle wanted to do something else.

Personally, I don't care what Vanguard does one way or another. I try to keep emotions out of such things.

While I respect Mr Bogle, he hasn't been in an official capacity for what, 20 years or so. He was gone before I started with Vanguard.

His legacy is well-established. A link or no link to a site isn't going to add to or subtract from his place in the industry.

The ideal repository of his site could be in the financial literacy efforts that already exist, as that effort already exists as a non-profit entity if I remember correctly.

Perhaps Mel or Taylor could approach the family and ask about the site that was at Vanguard, or maybe the family has other ideas.

At the present, none of us are privy to the issue, or, if they are, they haven't come forward.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Whakamole » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:52 pm

That site hadn't been updated in years.

Last speech recorded: 2009. https://web.archive.org/web/20190128051 ... eches.html

Last OpEd: 2006. https://web.archive.org/web/20190129174 ... _oped.html

Last book: 2005's "Battle for the Soul of Capitalism" (so excluding "The Little Book of Common Sense Investing" and everything after): https://web.archive.org/web/20190121110 ... books.html

His bio had been last updated sometime in 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20190117122 ... e_bio.html

It would have been nice if it was kept up to date, as I know Mr. Bogle was still active until the end.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by gorow » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 pm

At the very least, some notification at the site instead of an error message would indicate good customer service. I guess their stats showed so little visitation that they didn't feel it warranted an explanation?
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nedsaid » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:11 pm

bondsr4me wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:01 pm
nedsaid wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:33 pm
My guess is that Vanguard is turning the page on Mr. Bogle. In his retirement, he was a bit of a burr under the saddle for Vanguard management. Probably the best thing to do is to host the material here at Bogleheads. I suppose they will always have a tribute page to him but it sounds like the company he founded is moving on.
I kinda agree with what you say.

I must admit, if that is the case, it may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me.

I, like so many here, admire and respect Jack Bogle.
Vanguard isn't supposed to be a John Bogle fan club but I don't believe Vanguard is going to wholesale abandon Bogle's principles either. It will continue to offer cheap active funds and the ultra cheap index funds. It will continue to be a company owned by its shareholders, a truly mutual investment company. Most things will probably not change. I do expect Vanguard to continue to branch out and innovate as Bogle did when he was CEO.

We can put a twist on Mark Antony's speech, "We have come to praise John Bogle, not to bury him." We can continue to honor the man and his legacy here.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:19 pm

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm
Who has rights to Bogle Financial Markets Research Center now that Mr Bogle is gone? I doubt it would be Vanguard.

Broken Man 1999
A spot-check of the site shows that every web page has a notice on it saying

"©2013 Bogle Financial Center. All Rights Reserved"

with the year varying. Of course AFAIK the Bogle Financial Center likely no longer exists, but I think it is very likely that either Vanguard, where it had its physical location, or Bogle's estate, would assert that they hold the rights.

This site vanished once before, and came back after Vanguard was reminded about it.

(When it came back, many of the individual articles had a technical issue with the page encoding making it necessary to explicitly tell the web browser to interpret them as ISO Latin 1, rather than Unicode, in order to prevent the sporadic display of question-mark-in-diamond symbols...

Image

...but I digress).

It wasn't kept up-to-date but I found a lot of the material in it valuable, particularly "The Telltale Chart" and "Twelve Pillars of Wisdom." I have copies of some of them in ink-on-paper books, but it is hard to quote from them.
Last edited by nisiprius on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:33 pm

I've sent a message via the normal message mechanism in my Vanguard account (Topic: "Other").
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:35 pm

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm
Who has rights to Bogle Financial Markets Research Center now that Mr Bogle is gone? I doubt it would be Vanguard.

Broken Man 1999
I would expect it is Vanguard as I believe they funded the center.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nedsaid » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:24 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:35 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm
Who has rights to Bogle Financial Markets Research Center now that Mr Bogle is gone? I doubt it would be Vanguard.

Broken Man 1999
I would expect it is Vanguard as I believe they funded the center.
Bogle was forced into retirement at age 70 even though he was founder of the company. My suspicion was the Bogle Financial Markets Research Center was there to soothe a bruised ego and to keep Bogle too busy to spend much time criticizing Vanguard management. I will say that the Center did important work, it wasn't just a make-work project for the company founder. In fact, I think he got a kick out of the speaking engagements and the interviews, there are lots of old guys who think no one cares about their opinions any more. We got good books, articles, and speeches from that Center and hopefully all of that will be preserved.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:42 pm

thanks for the heads up. I don't even see these blogs at boglecenter.net which is where I'd expect to but it is a boglehead maintained site.

I do see the telltale chart and other great posts/speeches of Mr. Bogle's here:
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/

http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/?s=telltale+chart

http://johncbogle.com/speeches/JCB_Morningstar_6-02.pdf

hopefully Mr. Bogle's eblog will never go away but I assume his estate would need to pay the hosting fees, etc.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:53 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:42 pm
...I do see the telltale chart and other great posts/speeches of Mr. Bogle's here:
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/

http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/?s=telltale+chart

http://johncbogle.com/speeches/JCB_Morningstar_6-02.pdf

hopefully Mr. Bogle's eblog will never go away but I assume his estate would need to pay the hosting fees, etc...
A correspondent sent me a similar email. The site can actually be reached with the easy-to-remember url

http://johncbogle.com/

which automatically redirects to the Wordpress site. Yes, it contains most, not sure if it's all, of the material available at Vanguard's Bogle Financial Research Center.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Wakefield1 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:39 pm

If Vanguard is no longer hosting the site but if there is another site hosting the historical material then Vanguard should post the link to the alternative site at the old Vanguard address for the site.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by JoMoney » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:42 pm

FWIW, I probably would have noticed too except I'm accustomed to going to the www.johncbogle.com site looking for his speeches, or actually I usually search his site with a few key words or title of one of his speeches or something I'm looking for by using the "site:johncbogle.com" in the search string, which gets results like:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ajohncb ... sk+control

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ajohncb ... a+paradigm

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ajohncb ... tale+chart
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:40 pm

Thanks! The wiki's External links search came up with 10 hits on the Vanguard site (6 unique links).

First, see what the page used to be via archive.org (what nisiprius used). Then, see if a replacement can be found in the The Bogle eBlog.* If not, archive.org would be a good substitute.

I'll get to this when I can. (All wiki editors are welcome to fix the links.)

* The blog is also linked from the home page Sites of Interest
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:40 am

A lot of good information.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:15 pm

I really hate to say I was curious if this was going to happen and I hope ultimately that will not be correct. Over the years I had read a lot of good material both on the website and also Mr. Bogle's blog. So much that a week or so ago I forwarded links to Taylor and he started a new thread.

Honestly the Financial Research Center website appeared to have not been updated in years. The website was older and the last speech posted and book noted was from a while back. Personally I would love to see the two websites cleaned up and merged where every single Jack Bogle speech and article he penned is available.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:16 pm

There is a Warren Buffett book available on Amazon that has a complete listing of his annual shareholder letters. It is updated every few years. I would love to see a book that contains every speech by Mr. Bogle!

I would think that would be very popular with all proceeds going to support the Jack Bogle center.
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:16 pm

why is everyone here getting so emotional??

Did the market run up or have a big drop today??

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:40 pm

tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:16 pm
why is everyone here getting so emotional??

Did the market run up or have a big drop today??
It is the thought of many of Mr. Bogle’s speeches no longer being available.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:44 pm

Here's a list of the speeches and op-eds on the Vanguard site. Yes, it's sorted in a dumb way. I figured I could sort the titles from the johncbogle.com site the same dumb way, but the moment, I find that it's not as easy as I thought to assemble a comparable list from the johncbogle.com site.

1 "A Lot Can Happen In 25 Years"—Mutual Funds and the Institutionalization of the Financial Markets (April 29, 2002)
2 "A Question So Important that It Should Be Hard to Think about Anything Else" (June 12, 2007)
3 "Be Not the First ... Nor Yet the Last" (May 8, 1996)
4 "Corporate Governance:' What's Next?" (March 2005)
5 "Courageous Champions of Conscience and Controversy" (December 13, 2007)
6 "Energy and Persistence Conquer All Things" Applying Benjamin Franklin's Entrepreneurship in the 21st Century (January 17, 2002)
7 "Gentlemen … to Save Our Business From Ruin, We Must Reduce Expenses" (June 4, 1999)
8 "Leaving the Things that You Touch Better than You Found Them" (April 10, 2007)
9 "One Equal Temper of Heroic Hearts" (June 7, 2003)
10 "Resource Allocation and Strategic Planning at the Securities and Exchange Commission" (April 20, 2004)
11 "The End of Mutual Fund Dominance" (April 18, 2002)
12 "The Mutual Fund Industry 60 Years Later: For Better or Worse?" (January/February 2005)
13 "Tis Not to Late to Seek a Newer World" (March 10, 2004)
14 "Tis The Gift To Be Simple" (September 18, 2000)
15 "When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
16 (A series of articles assembled on Morningstar.com. Free registration required.)
17 (Morgan Stanley article by Steve Galbraith)
18 A Businessman-Philosopher Considers the New Millennium (May 5, 2000)
19 A Community of Character (December 16, 2008)
20 A Nation Challenged...And Not Only From Abroad (April 18, 2002)
21 A New Era for Corporate America, for Mutual Funds, and for Investors (November 11, 2003)
22 A New Order of Things—Bringing Mutuality to the "Mutual" Fund (February 19, 2008)
23 A Tale of Two Markets (April 16, 2001)
24 A Tale of Two Markets (October 2006)
25 Acres of Diamonds (November 17, 1998)
26 Adam Smith, the Invisible Hand, and the Mutual Fund Industry (June 17, 1999)
27 After the Fall: What Lies Ahead for Capitalism and the Financial Markets? (October 22, 2002)
28 After the Fall: What's Next for the Stock Market and the Mutual Fund Industry (March 21, 2001)
29 An Index Fund Fundamentalist Goes Back to the Drawing Board (Spring 2002)
30 As The Index Fund Moves from Heresy to Dogma...What More Do We Need To Know? (April 13, 2004)
31 Aspiring to Build a Better Financial World (April 30, 2009)
32 At the 50-Year Mark—Looking Back, Looking Ahead (May 29, 2001)
33 Black Monday and Black Swans (October 11, 2007)
34 Bogle on Investment Performance and the Law of Gravity (January 28, 1998)
35 Bond Funds: Treadmill to Oblivion? (March 18, 1998)
36 Bread and Circuses (June 15, 2000)
37 Bring on Bogle Wanted: a firebrand to fight for mutuality (August 5, 2000) (Financial Times article)
38 Building a Fiduciary Society (March 13, 2009)
39 Building a Fiduciary Society (March 13, 2009)
40 Business as a Calling (June 11, 2000)
41 Business Leadership and Morality (January 14, 2003)
42 Capitalism, Entrepreneurship, and Investing' The 18th Century vs. the 21st Century (January 25, 2006)
43 Celebrating John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
44 Chasing the Rabbit (June 14, 2003)
45 Cheapest Port In The Storm (November 11, 2003) (Morgan Stanley article by Steve Galbraith)
46 Choosing the Right Path (June 1, 2003)
47 Citation for Honorary Degree of Doctor of Laws, Princeton University (May 2005)
48 Consider the "Stewardship Quotient" (January 05, 2004)
49 Corporate Governance and Mutual Fund Governance—Reflections at a Time of Crisis (November 21, 2003)
50 Creating Shareholder Value: BY Mutual Funds...or FOR Mutual Fund Shareholders (October 26, 1998)
51 Designing a New Mutual Fund Industry (February 20, 2007)
52 Don't Count On It! The Perils of Numeracy (October 18, 2002)
53 Don't Look for Me at Davos . . . (January 27, 2006)
54 Economics, Politics, and the Financial Markets (October 14, 2008)
55 Entrepreneurship and Economic Progress (April 2, 2002)
56 Entrepreneurship—What's It Really About? (May 19, 2003)
57 Ethical Principles and Ethical Principals (November 2006)
58 Fair Shake or Shakedown? (July 8, 2004)
59 Fixing a Broken Financial System (February 12, 2009)
60 Fixing a Broken Financial System (February 12, 2009)
61 Giving the Bond Fund Investor a Fair Shake (November 10, 1999)
62 Globalization of Mutual Funds: Perspective, Prospects, and Trust (May 3, 1999)
63 Happiness or Misery? Investment Peformance in an Age of "Investment Relativism" (December 16,1997)
64 High Standards of Commercial Honor . . . Just and Equitable Principles of Trade . . . Fair Dealing with Investors (October 15, 2007)
65 Honoring Adam Smith EconomicsPennsylvania (June 12, 2002)
66 Honoring Our $4 Trillion Trust: Mutual Funds in the 21st Century (February 24, 1998)
67 How Mutual Funds Lost Their Way (June 20, 2000)
68 How the Mutual Fund Scandals Will Serve Fund Owners (October 27, 2003)
69 Human Beings: Essential Link in the Service-Profit Chain (December 7, 1999)
70 If You Can Trust Yourself… (March 30, 2009)
71 If You Can Trust Yourself… (March 30, 2009)
72 In Investing, You Get What You Don't Pay For (February 2, 2005)
73 Introduction of the President of the United States (September 17, 2000) (As Chairman of the National Constitution Center)
74 Investing With Simplicity (January 30, 1999)
75 Investment Management: Business … or Profession and What Role Does the Law Play? (March 10, 1999)
76 Investment Strategy in Times of Market Turbulence (March 3, 2008)
77 Investment Wisdom and Human Values (April 2006)
78 It's High Time We Return Capitalism to its Owners (February 26, 2004)
79 Just When We Need It Most...Is Corporate Governance Letting Us Down? (February 14, 2002)
80 Leadership: Creating a Firm with Character (April 10, 2002)
81 Letter to the New York Times Sunday Business Editor (July 30, 2000)
82 Looking At Investing From A New Perspective, A Half Century Old (February 26, 2007)
83 MEMORANDUM TO: Financial Intermediaries RE: How We Can Profit From the Experience of Corporate America (October 14, 2002)
84 Morningstar Managing Director on John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
85 Mutual Fund Directors: The Dog that Didn't Bark (January 28, 2001)
86 Mutual Fund Industry Practices and their Effect on Individual Investors (March 12, 2003)
87 Mutual Fund Secrecy (December 14, 2002)
88 Mutual Funds and Life Insurance: Contrasts and Parallels (September 4, 1997)
89 Mutual Funds at the Millenium: Fund Directors and Fund Myths (May 15, 2000)
90 Mutual Funds: How a Profession with Elements of a Business Became a Business with Elements of a Profession (February 2006)
91 Mutual Funds: Parallaxes and Taxes (November 12, 1997)
92 Mutual Funds: The Industry That Lost Its Way (June 20, 2000) (Wall Street Journal Op-Ed piece)
93 Mutual Funds: Trading Practices and Abuses that Harm Investors (November 03, 2003)
94 Not-So-Mutual Funds (November 14, 2003)
95 Nothing Fails Like Success: The Investment Implications of the Great Mutual Fund Boom (October 3, 1997)
96 On Leadership (May 17, 1997)
97 One in Mission (June 13, 2001)
98 Owners Capitalism vs. Managers Capitalism (June 11, 2003)
99 Pressing On, Regardless (April 04, 2002)
100 Public Accounting: Profession or Business? (October 16, 2000)
101 Rebuilding Faith: Wealth Management in the New Era (June 12, 2002)
102 Reflections on Markets, Ethics, and Careers (March 23, 2007)
103 Reflections on the Importance of History— Milestones, Men, and a Moral Society (November 2006)
104 Reflections on the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (September 16, 1997)
105 Reflections on Wellington Fund's 75th Birthday (January 2004)
106 Reinventing Mutual Funds (June 11, 2001)
107 Remaking the Market: Reality Bites (November 21, 2002)
108 Remarks on Vanguard's 25th Anniversary (May 20, 2000)
109 Restoring Trust: Financial Services in the New Era (September 16, 2003)
110 Return to top
111 Risk and Risk Control in an Era of Confidence (or is it Greed?) (April 6, 2000)
112 Social Security: Presidential Policies and Prudent Practices (July 5, 2000)
113 SpecialistMan (September 19, 2003)
114 Speeches - 2006
115 Stewardship vs. Salesmanship—Bond Mutual Funds Gone Awry (April 17, 2007)
116 Success In Investment Management: What Can We Learn From Indexing? (October 26, 2000)
117 Technology: Follower or Leader? Bane or Blessing? (February 2, 2000)
118 The Alpha and the Omega (January 21, 2004)
119 The Amazing Disappearance of the Individual Stockholder (October 3, 2005)
120 The Arithmetic of Mutual Fund Investing is More Important Than Ever (May 24, 2005)
121 The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism (February 2006)
122 The Chief Cornerstone (December 7, 2005)
123 The Coming Market Environment and Implications for Financial Innovation (June 2, 2008)
124 The Constitution: “For Ourselves and Our Posterity” July 4, 2003
125 The Culture That Gave Rise To The Current Financial Crisis (May 13, 2009)
126 The Culture That Gave Rise To The Current Financial Crisis (May 13, 2009)
127 The Dream of a Perfect Plan (October 16, 1999)
128 The Economics of the Mutual Fund Industry: For Fund Investors ... for Fund Managers (October 5, 1999)
129 The Emperor's New Mutual Funds (July 8, 2003)
130 The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
131 The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
132 The First Index Mutual Fund (April 1997)
133 The Four Dimensions of Investment Return (May 21, 1998)
134 The Greatest Hits of the Index King (October 8, 2000) (The New York Times article)
135 The Implications of Style Analysis on Mutual Fund Performance Evaluation (June 13, 1997)
136 The Investment Dilemma of the Philanthropic Investor (October 31, 2002)
137 The Investment Outlook and Strategies in Our Global World (July 17, 1997)
138 The Joy of Writing—Books, Ideas, Advocacy, and Idealism (November 2006)
139 The Last Word (July 2003) (Morningstar® FundInvestor™ article by Don Phillips)
140 The Marriage of Information Technology and Investing: For Richer or Poorer? (October 22,2001)
141 The Mutual Fund Industry in 2003: Back to the Future (January 14, 2003)
142 The New Global Economy (April 10, 2008)
143 The Ownership of Corporate America — Rights and Responsibilities (April 11 2005)
144 The Policy Portfolio in an Era of Subdued Returns (June 5, 2003)
145 The Power of Words, Ideas, Ideals, and Books (March 9, 2000)
146 The Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November/December 2005)
147 The Riddle of Performance Attribution (July 20, 1997)
148 The Role of the Fiduciary in Risky Financial Markets (May 1, 2007)
149 The Search for the Holy Grail (March 29, 1998)
150 The Spitzer Effect (November 18, 2004)
151 The Stock Market Universe—Stars, Comets, and the Sun (February 15, 2001)
152 The Telltale Chart (June 26, 2002)
153 The U.S. Financial Sector and the Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November 14, 2007)
154 The Uncanny Ability to Recognize the Obvious (October 15, 2005)
155 The Vanguard Story: "Luck, Leadership, and Strategy" (October 19,2000)
156 The Wall Street Casino (August 23, 1999)
157 The Wisdom of Investment–The Folly of Speculation (December 5, 2001)
158 Three Challenges of Investing (October 21, 2001)
159 Three Lucky Breaks—Three Exciting Careers (November 22, 2002)
160 Three Odysseys—The Long Adventurous Journeys of the Stock Market, the Mutual Fund Industry, and Vanguard (November 15, 2001)
161 To What Avail? Computer Technology and Mutual Funds (April 3, 1997)
162 Vanguard Founder Chats at Morningstar.com (August 23, 1999)
163 Vanguard Group Founder's Mutual Fund Message Finds Life amid Industry Woes (December 15, 2003) (The Baltimore Sun article by Paul Adams)
164 Vanguard: Saga of Heros (February 27, 2007)
165 Vanishing Treasures—Business Values and Investment Values (March 15, 2007)
166 What Can Active Managers Learn from Index Funds? (December 4, 2000)
167 What I've Learned In A Half Century In Business—Twelve Rules For Building A Great Work Force (April 23, 2003)
168 What the Past Half-Century Can Tell Us About the Future (October 12, 2000)
169 What We Must Do To Restore Owners Capitalism (October 1, 2003)
170 What Went Wrong in Corporate America? (February 24, 2003)
171 What Will Survive of Us Is Love (October 2, 2001)
172 What's Ahead for Stocks and Bonds—And How to Earn Your Fair Share (May 2006)
173 What's Happened to the Mutual Fund Industry? (October 2006)
174 When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
175 When Commitment Leads, Providence Follows (May 13, 2001)
176 When Does Innovation Go Too Far? (November 30, 2007)
177 Whether Markets are More Efficient or Less Efficient, Costs Matter (November 2003)
178 Why Do I Bother to Battle?
179 Wisdom, Insight, and the Qualities of a Model Institution (December 15, 2000)
180 Yale University: A Conversation With John C. Bogle (Fall / Winter 2005)
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:30 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:44 pm
Here's a list of the speeches and op-eds on the Vanguard site. Yes, it's sorted in a dumb way. I figured I could sort the titles from the johncbogle.com site the same dumb way, but the moment, I find that it's not as easy as I thought to assemble a comparable list from the johncbogle.com site.

1 "A Lot Can Happen In 25 Years"—Mutual Funds and the Institutionalization of the Financial Markets (April 29, 2002)
2 "A Question So Important that It Should Be Hard to Think about Anything Else" (June 12, 2007)
3 "Be Not the First ... Nor Yet the Last" (May 8, 1996)
4 "Corporate Governance:' What's Next?" (March 2005)
5 "Courageous Champions of Conscience and Controversy" (December 13, 2007)
6 "Energy and Persistence Conquer All Things" Applying Benjamin Franklin's Entrepreneurship in the 21st Century (January 17, 2002)
7 "Gentlemen … to Save Our Business From Ruin, We Must Reduce Expenses" (June 4, 1999)
8 "Leaving the Things that You Touch Better than You Found Them" (April 10, 2007)
9 "One Equal Temper of Heroic Hearts" (June 7, 2003)
10 "Resource Allocation and Strategic Planning at the Securities and Exchange Commission" (April 20, 2004)
11 "The End of Mutual Fund Dominance" (April 18, 2002)
12 "The Mutual Fund Industry 60 Years Later: For Better or Worse?" (January/February 2005)
13 "Tis Not to Late to Seek a Newer World" (March 10, 2004)
14 "Tis The Gift To Be Simple" (September 18, 2000)
15 "When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
16 (A series of articles assembled on Morningstar.com. Free registration required.)
17 (Morgan Stanley article by Steve Galbraith)
18 A Businessman-Philosopher Considers the New Millennium (May 5, 2000)
19 A Community of Character (December 16, 2008)
20 A Nation Challenged...And Not Only From Abroad (April 18, 2002)
21 A New Era for Corporate America, for Mutual Funds, and for Investors (November 11, 2003)
22 A New Order of Things—Bringing Mutuality to the "Mutual" Fund (February 19, 2008)
23 A Tale of Two Markets (April 16, 2001)
24 A Tale of Two Markets (October 2006)
25 Acres of Diamonds (November 17, 1998)
26 Adam Smith, the Invisible Hand, and the Mutual Fund Industry (June 17, 1999)
27 After the Fall: What Lies Ahead for Capitalism and the Financial Markets? (October 22, 2002)
28 After the Fall: What's Next for the Stock Market and the Mutual Fund Industry (March 21, 2001)
29 An Index Fund Fundamentalist Goes Back to the Drawing Board (Spring 2002)
30 As The Index Fund Moves from Heresy to Dogma...What More Do We Need To Know? (April 13, 2004)
31 Aspiring to Build a Better Financial World (April 30, 2009)
32 At the 50-Year Mark—Looking Back, Looking Ahead (May 29, 2001)
33 Black Monday and Black Swans (October 11, 2007)
34 Bogle on Investment Performance and the Law of Gravity (January 28, 1998)
35 Bond Funds: Treadmill to Oblivion? (March 18, 1998)
36 Bread and Circuses (June 15, 2000)
37 Bring on Bogle Wanted: a firebrand to fight for mutuality (August 5, 2000) (Financial Times article)
38 Building a Fiduciary Society (March 13, 2009)
39 Building a Fiduciary Society (March 13, 2009)
40 Business as a Calling (June 11, 2000)
41 Business Leadership and Morality (January 14, 2003)
42 Capitalism, Entrepreneurship, and Investing' The 18th Century vs. the 21st Century (January 25, 2006)
43 Celebrating John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
44 Chasing the Rabbit (June 14, 2003)
45 Cheapest Port In The Storm (November 11, 2003) (Morgan Stanley article by Steve Galbraith)
46 Choosing the Right Path (June 1, 2003)
47 Citation for Honorary Degree of Doctor of Laws, Princeton University (May 2005)
48 Consider the "Stewardship Quotient" (January 05, 2004)
49 Corporate Governance and Mutual Fund Governance—Reflections at a Time of Crisis (November 21, 2003)
50 Creating Shareholder Value: BY Mutual Funds...or FOR Mutual Fund Shareholders (October 26, 1998)
51 Designing a New Mutual Fund Industry (February 20, 2007)
52 Don't Count On It! The Perils of Numeracy (October 18, 2002)
53 Don't Look for Me at Davos . . . (January 27, 2006)
54 Economics, Politics, and the Financial Markets (October 14, 2008)
55 Entrepreneurship and Economic Progress (April 2, 2002)
56 Entrepreneurship—What's It Really About? (May 19, 2003)
57 Ethical Principles and Ethical Principals (November 2006)
58 Fair Shake or Shakedown? (July 8, 2004)
59 Fixing a Broken Financial System (February 12, 2009)
60 Fixing a Broken Financial System (February 12, 2009)
61 Giving the Bond Fund Investor a Fair Shake (November 10, 1999)
62 Globalization of Mutual Funds: Perspective, Prospects, and Trust (May 3, 1999)
63 Happiness or Misery? Investment Peformance in an Age of "Investment Relativism" (December 16,1997)
64 High Standards of Commercial Honor . . . Just and Equitable Principles of Trade . . . Fair Dealing with Investors (October 15, 2007)
65 Honoring Adam Smith EconomicsPennsylvania (June 12, 2002)
66 Honoring Our $4 Trillion Trust: Mutual Funds in the 21st Century (February 24, 1998)
67 How Mutual Funds Lost Their Way (June 20, 2000)
68 How the Mutual Fund Scandals Will Serve Fund Owners (October 27, 2003)
69 Human Beings: Essential Link in the Service-Profit Chain (December 7, 1999)
70 If You Can Trust Yourself… (March 30, 2009)
71 If You Can Trust Yourself… (March 30, 2009)
72 In Investing, You Get What You Don't Pay For (February 2, 2005)
73 Introduction of the President of the United States (September 17, 2000) (As Chairman of the National Constitution Center)
74 Investing With Simplicity (January 30, 1999)
75 Investment Management: Business … or Profession and What Role Does the Law Play? (March 10, 1999)
76 Investment Strategy in Times of Market Turbulence (March 3, 2008)
77 Investment Wisdom and Human Values (April 2006)
78 It's High Time We Return Capitalism to its Owners (February 26, 2004)
79 Just When We Need It Most...Is Corporate Governance Letting Us Down? (February 14, 2002)
80 Leadership: Creating a Firm with Character (April 10, 2002)
81 Letter to the New York Times Sunday Business Editor (July 30, 2000)
82 Looking At Investing From A New Perspective, A Half Century Old (February 26, 2007)
83 MEMORANDUM TO: Financial Intermediaries RE: How We Can Profit From the Experience of Corporate America (October 14, 2002)
84 Morningstar Managing Director on John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
85 Mutual Fund Directors: The Dog that Didn't Bark (January 28, 2001)
86 Mutual Fund Industry Practices and their Effect on Individual Investors (March 12, 2003)
87 Mutual Fund Secrecy (December 14, 2002)
88 Mutual Funds and Life Insurance: Contrasts and Parallels (September 4, 1997)
89 Mutual Funds at the Millenium: Fund Directors and Fund Myths (May 15, 2000)
90 Mutual Funds: How a Profession with Elements of a Business Became a Business with Elements of a Profession (February 2006)
91 Mutual Funds: Parallaxes and Taxes (November 12, 1997)
92 Mutual Funds: The Industry That Lost Its Way (June 20, 2000) (Wall Street Journal Op-Ed piece)
93 Mutual Funds: Trading Practices and Abuses that Harm Investors (November 03, 2003)
94 Not-So-Mutual Funds (November 14, 2003)
95 Nothing Fails Like Success: The Investment Implications of the Great Mutual Fund Boom (October 3, 1997)
96 On Leadership (May 17, 1997)
97 One in Mission (June 13, 2001)
98 Owners Capitalism vs. Managers Capitalism (June 11, 2003)
99 Pressing On, Regardless (April 04, 2002)
100 Public Accounting: Profession or Business? (October 16, 2000)
101 Rebuilding Faith: Wealth Management in the New Era (June 12, 2002)
102 Reflections on Markets, Ethics, and Careers (March 23, 2007)
103 Reflections on the Importance of History— Milestones, Men, and a Moral Society (November 2006)
104 Reflections on the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (September 16, 1997)
105 Reflections on Wellington Fund's 75th Birthday (January 2004)
106 Reinventing Mutual Funds (June 11, 2001)
107 Remaking the Market: Reality Bites (November 21, 2002)
108 Remarks on Vanguard's 25th Anniversary (May 20, 2000)
109 Restoring Trust: Financial Services in the New Era (September 16, 2003)
110 Return to top
111 Risk and Risk Control in an Era of Confidence (or is it Greed?) (April 6, 2000)
112 Social Security: Presidential Policies and Prudent Practices (July 5, 2000)
113 SpecialistMan (September 19, 2003)
114 Speeches - 2006
115 Stewardship vs. Salesmanship—Bond Mutual Funds Gone Awry (April 17, 2007)
116 Success In Investment Management: What Can We Learn From Indexing? (October 26, 2000)
117 Technology: Follower or Leader? Bane or Blessing? (February 2, 2000)
118 The Alpha and the Omega (January 21, 2004)
119 The Amazing Disappearance of the Individual Stockholder (October 3, 2005)
120 The Arithmetic of Mutual Fund Investing is More Important Than Ever (May 24, 2005)
121 The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism (February 2006)
122 The Chief Cornerstone (December 7, 2005)
123 The Coming Market Environment and Implications for Financial Innovation (June 2, 2008)
124 The Constitution: “For Ourselves and Our Posterity” July 4, 2003
125 The Culture That Gave Rise To The Current Financial Crisis (May 13, 2009)
126 The Culture That Gave Rise To The Current Financial Crisis (May 13, 2009)
127 The Dream of a Perfect Plan (October 16, 1999)
128 The Economics of the Mutual Fund Industry: For Fund Investors ... for Fund Managers (October 5, 1999)
129 The Emperor's New Mutual Funds (July 8, 2003)
130 The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
131 The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
132 The First Index Mutual Fund (April 1997)
133 The Four Dimensions of Investment Return (May 21, 1998)
134 The Greatest Hits of the Index King (October 8, 2000) (The New York Times article)
135 The Implications of Style Analysis on Mutual Fund Performance Evaluation (June 13, 1997)
136 The Investment Dilemma of the Philanthropic Investor (October 31, 2002)
137 The Investment Outlook and Strategies in Our Global World (July 17, 1997)
138 The Joy of Writing—Books, Ideas, Advocacy, and Idealism (November 2006)
139 The Last Word (July 2003) (Morningstar® FundInvestor™ article by Don Phillips)
140 The Marriage of Information Technology and Investing: For Richer or Poorer? (October 22,2001)
141 The Mutual Fund Industry in 2003: Back to the Future (January 14, 2003)
142 The New Global Economy (April 10, 2008)
143 The Ownership of Corporate America — Rights and Responsibilities (April 11 2005)
144 The Policy Portfolio in an Era of Subdued Returns (June 5, 2003)
145 The Power of Words, Ideas, Ideals, and Books (March 9, 2000)
146 The Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November/December 2005)
147 The Riddle of Performance Attribution (July 20, 1997)
148 The Role of the Fiduciary in Risky Financial Markets (May 1, 2007)
149 The Search for the Holy Grail (March 29, 1998)
150 The Spitzer Effect (November 18, 2004)
151 The Stock Market Universe—Stars, Comets, and the Sun (February 15, 2001)
152 The Telltale Chart (June 26, 2002)
153 The U.S. Financial Sector and the Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November 14, 2007)
154 The Uncanny Ability to Recognize the Obvious (October 15, 2005)
155 The Vanguard Story: "Luck, Leadership, and Strategy" (October 19,2000)
156 The Wall Street Casino (August 23, 1999)
157 The Wisdom of Investment–The Folly of Speculation (December 5, 2001)
158 Three Challenges of Investing (October 21, 2001)
159 Three Lucky Breaks—Three Exciting Careers (November 22, 2002)
160 Three Odysseys—The Long Adventurous Journeys of the Stock Market, the Mutual Fund Industry, and Vanguard (November 15, 2001)
161 To What Avail? Computer Technology and Mutual Funds (April 3, 1997)
162 Vanguard Founder Chats at Morningstar.com (August 23, 1999)
163 Vanguard Group Founder's Mutual Fund Message Finds Life amid Industry Woes (December 15, 2003) (The Baltimore Sun article by Paul Adams)
164 Vanguard: Saga of Heros (February 27, 2007)
165 Vanishing Treasures—Business Values and Investment Values (March 15, 2007)
166 What Can Active Managers Learn from Index Funds? (December 4, 2000)
167 What I've Learned In A Half Century In Business—Twelve Rules For Building A Great Work Force (April 23, 2003)
168 What the Past Half-Century Can Tell Us About the Future (October 12, 2000)
169 What We Must Do To Restore Owners Capitalism (October 1, 2003)
170 What Went Wrong in Corporate America? (February 24, 2003)
171 What Will Survive of Us Is Love (October 2, 2001)
172 What's Ahead for Stocks and Bonds—And How to Earn Your Fair Share (May 2006)
173 What's Happened to the Mutual Fund Industry? (October 2006)
174 When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
175 When Commitment Leads, Providence Follows (May 13, 2001)
176 When Does Innovation Go Too Far? (November 30, 2007)
177 Whether Markets are More Efficient or Less Efficient, Costs Matter (November 2003)
178 Why Do I Bother to Battle?
179 Wisdom, Insight, and the Qualities of a Model Institution (December 15, 2000)
180 Yale University: A Conversation With John C. Bogle (Fall / Winter 2005)
Can the speeches be accessed on the Vanguard site any longer? I believe on the John Bogle blog has access.
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:27 pm

Thought more Bogleheads would be upset!
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by NYCguy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:20 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:27 pm
Thought more Bogleheads would be upset!
John Bogle is one of the greatest men of his time and I will always honor him. But Vanguard is not John Bogle and I measure Vanguard by the price, tax efficiency and quality of its offerings. By that measure, I am a satisfied customer today. Hopefully Vanguard will live up to the high standard John Bogle set for all of us.

I regret not having known the man personally as some fortunate members of this forum were able to do.

God bless John Bogle and Godspeed to Vanguard to stay the course and evolve appropriately.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:03 pm

NYCguy wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:20 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:27 pm
Thought more Bogleheads would be upset!
John Bogle is one of the greatest men of his time and I will always honor him. But Vanguard is not John Bogle and I measure Vanguard by the price, tax efficiency and quality of its offerings. By that measure, I am a satisfied customer today. Hopefully Vanguard will live up to the high standard John Bogle set for all of us.

I regret not having known the man personally as some fortunate members of this forum were able to do.

God bless John Bogle and Godspeed to Vanguard to stay the course and evolve appropriately.
Very well said. Thank you!
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by drk » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:18 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:27 pm
Thought more Bogleheads would be upset!
I honestly don't see what there is to be upset about. When people note actual customer service issues at Vanguard, they're dismissed. And yet people are able to muster rage about seeing an unmaintained website taken down? I don't get it. It's not as though the speeches are gone.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by edgeagg » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:41 pm

I'll speak for myself - and yes, I'm a bit more concerned than upset. Here is why:
(1) Bogle felt drawn to a higher calling - namely shielding individual investors from the rapacity of the broker class. This comes across pretty clearly in his actions and books.
(2) Vanguard was supposed to be a reflection of these ideals and I believe to a great extent, it has succeeded. However, the culture of a company is set to a great extent by it's founder. When a founder is "deleted" one wonders if a change in culture is in the offing. I sincerely hope not.
(3) John Bogle was an extraordinary man and gave of his time to this forum. I can see why some people in the forum may view the action by VG as an insult to his memory.

But this is my view & I don't expect everyone to share the same view.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:46 am

edgeagg wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:41 pm
I'll speak for myself - and yes, I'm a bit more concerned than upset. Here is why:
(1) Bogle felt drawn to a higher calling - namely shielding individual investors from the rapacity of the broker class. This comes across pretty clearly in his actions and books.
(2) Vanguard was supposed to be a reflection of these ideals and I believe to a great extent, it has succeeded. However, the culture of a company is set to a great extent by it's founder. When a founder is "deleted" one wonders if a change in culture is in the offing. I sincerely hope not.
(3) John Bogle was an extraordinary man and gave of his time to this forum. I can see why some people in the forum may view the action by VG as an insult to his memory.

But this is my view & I don't expect everyone to share the same view.
Totally agree with you and very well said. Hopefully no large changes to Vanguard and the culture.
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by SGM » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:33 am

Vanguard supplied Jack Bogle with an office, services and several people were assigned to report to him directly. Jack was able to continue writing and publishing on a regular basis. He was also helped with slides and presentations by the employees assigned to him by Vanguard. Jack could not have been as prolific in his writing and public appearances if it wasn't for the staff and office. I would expect that these employees would be reassigned and the office closed after his death. I expect that Vanguard tried hard to please Jack Bogle and responded to any criticism or requests from him. He and his staff are no longer there to make requests regarding the website. It is a simple explanation.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:41 am

nisiprius wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:19 pm

"©2013 Bogle Financial Center. All Rights Reserved"

with the year varying. Of course AFAIK the Bogle Financial Center likely no longer exists, but I think it is very likely that either Vanguard, where it had its physical location, or Bogle's estate, would assert that they hold the rights.
Perhaps the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy would be able to preserve and present the material?

https://boglecenter.net/

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:18 am

So I'm slowly working on collating the two lists of material from the Vanguard site and http://www.johncbogle.com . Most (but not all) of the material at the Vanguard site is, indeed, at johncbogle.com. Also, many of his speeches were slightly reworked into chapters of his books, and vice versa.

It is probably worth remembering that Bogle took the path of Fidelity Investments, General Motors, and International Business Machines, and not that of Charles Schwab Corporation, Chrysler Corporation, and Burroughs Corporation. That is to say, he didn't name the firm after himself.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by frugaltigris » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:27 am

I would have expected Vanguard preserving website links to Jack Bogle. How much effort does it take? None. I can understand that they would not have maintained them, but removing them is not a good sign. Is Vanguard delinking itself from John C Bogle's philosophy? I hope not. Jack was no less than a prophet for individual investors like us who bought a revolution in the way financial world works for people like us. It is disheartening to see this happen.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by retiringwhen » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:47 am

Seeing that the core site it still up, and all that happened as that the redirection links form Vanguard.com got broken, this was surely an oversight caused by some site migration/maintenance activity.

Frankly, from a technical perspective, the redirection was probably not even appropriate. They should have just had a link to the actual site.

Lastly, I haven't read all of the thoughts on how preserve Mr. Bogle's public materials, but I would assume they are owned by his estate unless he had created an arrangement with this Center. If someone is interesting in formally preserving the material, I would suggest you reach out to his family and ask if someone has taken on the task. They may already have things planned. If not, they may entertain offers to do that. Publishing them under the Bogleheads 503(c) could even be attractive if planned and executed thoughtfully.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:56 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:18 am
So I'm slowly working on collating the two lists of material from the Vanguard site and http://www.johncbogle.com . Most (but not all) of the material at the Vanguard site is, indeed, at johncbogle.com. Also, many of his speeches were slightly reworked into chapters of his books, and vice versa.

It is probably worth remembering that Bogle took the path of Fidelity Investments, General Motors, and International Business Machines, and not that of Charles Schwab Corporation, Chrysler Corporation, and Burroughs Corporation. That is to say, he didn't name the firm after himself.
Do you think a hard cover book could be published with every single one of the speeches? Proceeds donated to Bogle Center. Kind of like the Warren Buffett shareholder letter book that contains every shareholder report every published and is updated every few years.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:02 pm

I was wrong: The Twelve Pillars of Wisdom is online at johncbogle.com. One of the issues here is that it is easy to forget that Google Search has not really indexed everything, and it has apparently done a more thorough job of indexing vanguard.com than johncbogle.com. (This whole thread started because I wanted to quote something from "Twelve Pillars" and Google didn't know about the copy at johncbogle.com).

John in Vanguard's communications office has given me the following background and context, and given me permission to quote:
I did some legwork and the long and short of it is that the Bogle site was not moved during a recent migration of web content to cloud-based servers. Simply put, the site was not kept current and no longer met compliance standards.

The good news: the Bogle eBlog [johncbogle.com] remains available and is the primary resource for Mr. Bogle’s speeches, articles, and other communications. If you notice items that are missing from the site (beyond Twelve Pillars), we can certainly consider having them added. Also, we are in the early stages of considering a new site that would feature our tribute to Mr. Bogle, along with other content, videos, and links.

Finally, I would like to address the sentiment on some board posts regarding Vanguard changing in the wake of Mr. Bogle’s passing. Vanguard has always been about change, and Mr. Bogle was the industry’s leading change agent. Think Vanguard’s unique structure, the first index fund, and going no-load – all radical changes and departures from the status quo. He changed an entire industry for the better. Paul Samuelson puts it more eloquently in the foreword to Bogle on Mutual Funds: “John Bogle has changed a basic industry in the optimal direction. Of very few can this be said.”

Vanguard will continue to change. Change, adapt, innovate, and continuously improve. We owe it to you and your fellow clients. We owe it to ourselves as responsible stewards of other people’s money.

But there are some things that will not change. Our unique structure. Our mission to give investors the best chance for investment success. And the values and principles that Mr. Bogle inculcated through his word and deed to the crew over many years. He may be gone in body, but not in spirit.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by informal guide » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Good to hear the sanity from John in Vanguard's communications office!

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:19 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:02 pm
I was wrong: The Twelve Pillars of Wisdom is online at johncbogle.com. One of the issues here is that it is easy to forget that Google Search has not really indexed everything, and it has apparently done a more thorough job of indexing vanguard.com than johncbogle.com. (This whole thread started because I wanted to quote something from "Twelve Pillars" and Google didn't know about the copy at johncbogle.com).

John in Vanguard's communications office has given me the following background and context, and given me permission to quote:
I did some legwork and the long and short of it is that the Bogle site was not moved during a recent migration of web content to cloud-based servers. Simply put, the site was not kept current and no longer met compliance standards.

The good news: the Bogle eBlog [johncbogle.com] remains available and is the primary resource for Mr. Bogle’s speeches, articles, and other communications. If you notice items that are missing from the site (beyond Twelve Pillars), we can certainly consider having them added. Also, we are in the early stages of considering a new site that would feature our tribute to Mr. Bogle, along with other content, videos, and links.

Finally, I would like to address the sentiment on some board posts regarding Vanguard changing in the wake of Mr. Bogle’s passing. Vanguard has always been about change, and Mr. Bogle was the industry’s leading change agent. Think Vanguard’s unique structure, the first index fund, and going no-load – all radical changes and departures from the status quo. He changed an entire industry for the better. Paul Samuelson puts it more eloquently in the foreword to Bogle on Mutual Funds: “John Bogle has changed a basic industry in the optimal direction. Of very few can this be said.”

Vanguard will continue to change. Change, adapt, innovate, and continuously improve. We owe it to you and your fellow clients. We owe it to ourselves as responsible stewards of other people’s money.

But there are some things that will not change. Our unique structure. Our mission to give investors the best chance for investment success. And the values and principles that Mr. Bogle inculcated through his word and deed to the crew over many years. He may be gone in body, but not in spirit.
Fantastic news and response from Vanguard! A little message goes a huge way!

Would love to see a new Vanguard hosted website (or John Bogle blog) with EVERY speech and article he wrote.

Thank you Vanguard and Thank you Mr. Bogle!
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by DesertMan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:16 pm

What a relief!

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Silence Dogood » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:51 pm

Thank you nisiprius, once again, for everything you do.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by tibbitts » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:45 pm

frugaltigris wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:27 am
I would have expected Vanguard preserving website links to Jack Bogle. How much effort does it take? None. I can understand that they would not have maintained them, but removing them is not a good sign. Is Vanguard delinking itself from John C Bogle's philosophy? I hope not. Jack was no less than a prophet for individual investors like us who bought a revolution in the way financial world works for people like us. It is disheartening to see this happen.
I'm not an expert but in general Vanguard is in a very compliance-sensitive environment and I think it's reasonable to limit links to resources it doesn't control. Also web standards for things like accessibility are constantly evolving and when your website links to a website that you don't control or have a business relationship with, I can see where that could be a problem.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by Always passive » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 pm

No disrespect to Mr. Bogle, RIP, I would also add that investing, mainly based on academic studies, has changed. Bogle's investing philosophy may be the cornerstone of this forum, but not any longer the only concept. As an example, I have been following Swedroe for a long time, read his books, and look at his evolution. Bogle never talked about factor investment, now this topic has become a thing to think about.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:01 am

Comparison of contents between the defunct Vanguard Bogle Financial Markets Reseach Center as captured by archive.org, and "the Bogle eBlog", johncbogle.com.

Note that not every item is by Bogle.

Comparison is based on the titles as listed at the two sites, I didn't compare contents. Sometimes there were small differences in the title but if the listed date matched I assumed they were the same. There are also many items at johncbogle.com that were not at the Vanguard Bogle site but I didn't try to list them.

At Vanguard (Bogle Financial Markets Research Center), but not at johncbogle.com

× "A Lot Can Happen In 25 Years"—Mutual Funds and the Institutionalization of the Financial Markets (April 29, 2002)
× "Courageous Champions of Conscience and Controversy" (December 13, 2007)
× "Resource Allocation and Strategic Planning at the Securities and Exchange Commission" (April 20, 2004)
× An Index Fund Fundamentalist Goes Back to the Drawing Board (Spring 2002)
× Bogle on Investment Performance and the Law of Gravity (January 28, 1998)
× Bring on Bogle Wanted: a firebrand to fight for mutuality (August 5, 2000) (Financial Times article)
× Celebrating John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
× Cheapest Port In The Storm (November 11, 2003) (Morgan Stanley article by Steve Galbraith)
× Citation for Honorary Degree of Doctor of Laws, Princeton University (May 2005)
× Don't Look for Me at Davos . . . (January 27, 2006)
× Fair Shake or Shakedown? (July 8, 2004)
× High Standards of Commercial Honor . . . Just and Equitable Principles of Trade . . . Fair Dealing with Investors (October 15, 2007)
× How Mutual Funds Lost Their Way (June 20, 2000)
× How the Mutual Fund Scandals Will Serve Fund Owners (October 27, 2003)
× Investment Management: Business … or Profession and What Role Does the Law Play? (March 10, 1999)
× Investment Strategy in Times of Market Turbulence (March 3, 2008)
× Letter to the New York Times Sunday Business Editor (July 30, 2000)
× Morningstar Managing Director on John Bogle's 50th Anniversary (July 3, 2001)
× Mutual Fund Directors: The Dog that Didn't Bark (January 28, 2001)
× Mutual Fund Industry Practices and their Effect on Individual Investors (March 12, 2003)
× Mutual Fund Secrecy (December 14, 2002)
× Mutual Funds: The Industry That Lost Its Way (June 20, 2000) (Wall Street Journal Op-Ed piece)
× Mutual Funds: Trading Practices and Abuses that Harm Investors (November 03, 2003)
× Not-So-Mutual Funds (November 14, 2003)
× Pressing On, Regardless (April 04, 2002)
× Remaking the Market: Reality Bites (November 21, 2002)
× Social Security: Presidential Policies and Prudent Practices (July 5, 2000)
× SpecialistMan (September 19, 2003)
× The Amazing Disappearance of the Individual Stockholder (October 3, 2005)
× The Emperor's New Mutual Funds (July 8, 2003)
× The Greatest Hits of the Index King (October 8, 2000) (The New York Times article)
× The Last Word (July 2003) (Morningstar® FundInvestor™ article by Don Phillips)
× The Spitzer Effect (November 18, 2004)
× The Wall Street Casino (August 23, 1999)
× Vanguard Founder Chats at Morningstar.com (August 23, 1999)
× Vanguard Group Founder's Mutual Fund Message Finds Life amid Industry Woes (December 15, 2003) (The Baltimore Sun article by Paul Adams)
× Vanguard: Saga of Heros (February 27, 2007)
× What the Past Half-Century Can Tell Us About the Future (October 12, 2000)
× What We Must Do To Restore Owners Capitalism (October 1, 2003)
× Whether Markets are More Efficient or Less Efficient, Costs Matter (November 2003)
× Yale University: A Conversation With John C. Bogle (Fall / Winter 2005)

At both sites:

√ "Be Not the First ... Nor Yet the Last" (May 8, 1996)
√ "Corporate Governance:' What's Next?" (March 2005)
√ "Energy and Persistence Conquer All Things" Applying Benjamin Franklin's Entrepreneurship in the 21st Century (January 17, 2002)
√ "On Equal Temper of Heroic Hearts" (June 7, 2003)
√ "The Mutual Fund Industry 60 Years Later: For Better or Worse?" (January/February 2005)
√ "Tis Not to Late to Seek a Newer World" (March 10, 2004)
√ "Tis The Gift To Be Simple" (September 18, 2000)
√ "When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
√ Acres of Diamonds (November 17, 1998)
√ Black Monday and Black Swans (October 11, 2007)
√ Bond Funds: Treadmill to Oblivion? (March 18, 1998)
√ Bread and Circuses (June 15, 2000)
√ Building a Fiduciary Society (March 13, 2009)
√ Business as a Calling (June 11, 2000)
√ Business Leadership and Morality (January 14, 2003)
√ Capitalism, Entrepreneurship, and Investing' The 18th Century vs. the 21st Century (January 25, 2006)
√ Chasing the Rabbit (June 14, 2003)
√ Choosing the Right Path (June 1, 2003)
√ Consider the "Stewardship Quotient" (January 05, 2004)
√ Corporate Governance and Mutual Fund Governance—Reflections at a Time of Crisis (November 21, 2003)
√ Creating Shareholder Value: BY Mutual Funds...or FOR Mutual Fund Shareholders (October 26, 1998)
√ Designing a New Mutual Fund Industry (February 20, 2007)
√ Don't Count On It! The Perils of Numeracy (October 18, 2002)
√ Economics, Politics, and the Financial Markets (October 14, 2008)
√ Entrepreneurship and Economic Progress (April 2, 2002)
√ Entrepreneurship—What's It Really About? (May 19, 2003)
√ Ethical Principles and Ethical Principals (November 2006)
√ Fixing a Broken Financial System (February 12, 2009)
√ Giving the Bond Fund Investor a Fair Shake (November 10, 1999)
√ Globalization of Mutual Funds: Perspective, Prospects, and Trust (May 3, 1999)
√ Happiness or Misery? Investment Peformance in an Age of "Investment Relativism" (December 16,1997)
√ Honoring Adam Smith EconomicsPennsylvania (June 12, 2002)
√ Honoring Our $4 Trillion Trust: Mutual Funds in the 21st Century (February 24, 1998)
√ Human Beings: Essential Link in the Service-Profit Chain (December 7, 1999)
√ If You Can Trust Yourself… (March 30, 2009)
√ In Investing, You Get What You Don't Pay For (February 2, 2005)
√ Introduction of the President of the United States (September 17, 2000) (As Chairman of the National Constitution Center)
√ Investing With Simplicity (January 30, 1999)
√ Investment Wisdom and Human Values (April 2006)
√ It's High Time We Return Capitalism to its Owners (February 26, 2004)
√ Just When We Need It Most...Is Corporate Governance Letting Us Down? (February 14, 2002)
√ Leadership: Creating a Firm with Character (April 10, 2002)
√ Looking At Investing From A New Perspective, A Half Century Old (February 26, 2007)
√ MEMORANDUM TO: Financial Intermediaries RE: How We Can Profit From the Experience of Corporate America (October 14, 2002)
√ Mutual Funds and Life Insurance: Contrasts and Parallels (September 4, 1997)
√ Mutual Funds at the Millenium: Fund Directors and Fund Myths (May 15, 2000)
√ Mutual Funds: How a Profession with Elements of a Business Became a Business with Elements of a Profession (February 2006)
√ Mutual Funds: Parallaxes and Taxes (November 12, 1997)
√ Nothing Fails Like Success: The Investment Implications of the Great Mutual Fund Boom (October 3, 1997)
√ On Leadership (May 17, 1997)
√ One in Mission (June 13, 2001)
√ Owners Capitalism vs. Managers Capitalism (June 11, 2003)
√ Public Accounting: Profession or Business? (October 16, 2000)
√ Rebuilding Faith: Wealth Management in the New Era (June 12, 2002)
√ Reflections on Markets, Ethics, and Careers (March 23, 2007)
√ Reflections on the Importance of History— Milestones, Men, and a Moral Society (November 2006)
√ Reflections on the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (September 16, 1997)
√ Reflections on Wellington Fund's 75th Birthday (January 2004)
√ Reinventing Mutual Funds (June 11, 2001)
√ Remarks on Vanguard's 25th Anniversary (May 20, 2000)
√ Restoring Trust: Financial Services in the New Era (September 16, 2003)
√ Risk and Risk Control in an Era of Confidence (or is it Greed?) (April 6, 2000)
√ Stewardship vs. Salesmanship—Bond Mutual Funds Gone Awry (April 17, 2007)
√ Success In Investment Management: What Can We Learn From Indexing? (October 26, 2000)
√ Technology: Follower or Leader? Bane or Blessing? (February 2, 2000)
√ The Alpha and the Omega (January 21, 2004)
√ The Arithmetic of Mutual Fund Investing is More Important Than Ever (May 24, 2005)
√ The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism (February 2006)
√ The Chief Cornerstone (December 7, 2005)
√ The Coming Market Environment and Implications for Financial Innovation (June 2, 2008)
√ The Constitution: “For Ourselves and Our Posterity” July 4, 2003
√ The Culture That Gave Rise To The Current Financial Crisis (May 13, 2009)
√ The Dream of a Perfect Plan (October 16, 1999)
√ The Economics of the Mutual Fund Industry: For Fund Investors ... for Fund Managers (October 5, 1999)
√ The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
√ The Fiduciary Principle: "No Man Can Serve Two Masters" (April 1, 2009)
√ The First Index Mutual Fund (April 1997)
√ The Four Dimensions of Investment Return (May 21, 1998)
√ The Implications of Style Analysis on Mutual Fund Performance Evaluation (June 13, 1997)
√ The Investment Dilemma of the Philanthropic Investor (October 31, 2002)
√ The Investment Outlook and Strategies in Our Global World (July 17, 1997)
√ The Joy of Writing—Books, Ideas, Advocacy, and Idealism (November 2006)
√ The Marriage of Information Technology and Investing: For Richer or Poorer? (October 22,2001)
√ The Mutual Fund Industry in 2003: Back to the Future (January 14, 2003)
√ The New Global Economy (April 10, 2008)
√ The Ownership of Corporate America — Rights and Responsibilities (April 11 2005)
√ The Policy Portfolio in an Era of Subdued Returns (June 5, 2003)
√ The Power of Words, Ideas, Ideals, and Books (March 9, 2000)
√ The Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November/December 2005)
√ The Riddle of Performance Attribution (July 20, 1997)
√ The Role of the Fiduciary in Risky Financial Markets (May 1, 2007)
√ The Search for the Holy Grail (March 29, 1998)
√ The Stock Market Universe—Stars, Comets, and the Sun (February 15, 2001)
√ The Telltale Chart (June 26, 2002)
√ The U.S. Financial Sector and the Relentless Rules of Humble Arithmetic (November 14, 2007)
√ The Uncanny Ability to Recognize the Obvious (October 15, 2005)
√ The Vanguard Story: "Luck, Leadership, and Strategy" (October 19,2000)
√ The Wisdom of Investment–The Folly of Speculation (December 5, 2001)
√ Three Challenges of Investing (October 21, 2001)
√ Three Lucky Breaks—Three Exciting Careers (November 22, 2002)
√ Three Odysseys—The Long Adventurous Journeys of the Stock Market, the Mutual Fund Industry, and Vanguard (November 15, 2001)
√ To What Avail? Computer Technology and Mutual Funds (April 3, 1997)
√ Vanishing Treasures—Business Values and Investment Values (March 15, 2007)
√ What Can Active Managers Learn from Index Funds? (December 4, 2000)
√ What I've Learned In A Half Century In Business—Twelve Rules For Building A Great Work Force (April 23, 2003)
√ What Went Wrong in Corporate America? (February 24, 2003)
√ What Will Survive of Us Is Love (October 2, 2001)
√ What's Ahead for Stocks and Bonds—And How to Earn Your Fair Share (May 2006)
√ What's Happened to the Mutual Fund Industry? (October 2006)
√ When a Man Comes to Himself" (May 28, 2009)
√ When Commitment Leads, Providence Follows (May 13, 2001)
√ When Does Innovation Go Too Far? (November 30, 2007)
√ Why Do I Bother to Battle?
√ Wisdom, Insight, and the Qualities of a Model Institution (December 15, 2000)
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nps » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:05 am

Always passive wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 pm
Bogle never talked about factor investment
He certainly did and expressed strong views on the subject. It's not like it's something that came about only after his passing.

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:43 am

abuss368 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:56 pm
...Do you think a hard cover book could be published with every single one of the speeches? Proceeds donated to Bogle Center. Kind of like the Warren Buffett shareholder letter book that contains every shareholder report every published and is updated every few years....
It's an idea worth nibbling at, but it's not trivially easy. It sounds like it needs someone (not me!) to organize a team...

The 42 Berkshire Hathaway Shareholder Letters are all from the same source and probably similar in terms of whatever the copyright status might be; I am guessing that if you can copy and publish one of them, you can copy and publish all.

In the case of Bogle, there are about 260 items. If we guess that they run to about ten pages each, that poses a problem in itself.

I have the impression that Bogle basically wrote "essays;" he reworked speeches into book chapters, and gave speech based on already-published book chapters. Several of his books, for example Don't Count on It! and John Bogle on Investing: The First Fifty Years are really anthologies of essays. "The Telltale Chart," for example, appeared Don't Count on It!

Combing through 260-odd Bogle items and deciding if permissions are needed and, if so, how to get them, could be tricky. The Pareto principle probably applies--easy for 80% of them, difficult for the remaining 20%. The "speeches" might not be too bad. Their publication on the Vanguard "Bogle Center for Financial Markets Research" was probably their first publication, and the copyright notice on the web page is probably accurate. Who is empowered to negotiate for the Bogle Center for Financial Markets Research is an "interesting" question; presumably Michael W. Nolan would know.
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:43 am
abuss368 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:56 pm
...Do you think a hard cover book could be published with every single one of the speeches? Proceeds donated to Bogle Center. Kind of like the Warren Buffett shareholder letter book that contains every shareholder report every published and is updated every few years....
It's an idea worth nibbling at, but it's not trivially easy. It sounds like it needs someone (not me!) to organize a team...

The 42 Berkshire Hathaway Shareholder Letters are all from the same source and probably similar in terms of whatever the copyright status might be; I am guessing that if you can copy and publish one of them, you can copy and publish all.

In the case of Bogle, there are about 260 items. If we guess that they run to about ten pages each, that poses a problem in itself.

I have the impression that Bogle basically wrote "essays;" he reworked speeches into book chapters, and gave speech based on already-published book chapters. Several of his books, for example Don't Count on It! and John Bogle on Investing: The First Fifty Years are really anthologies of essays. "The Telltale Chart," for example, appeared Don't Count on It!

Combing through 260-odd Bogle items and deciding if permissions are needed and, if so, how to get them, could be tricky. The Pareto principle probably applies--easy for 80% of them, difficult for the remaining 20%. The "speeches" might not be too bad. Their publication on the Vanguard "Bogle Center for Financial Markets Research" was probably their first publication, and the copyright notice on the web page is probably accurate. Who is empowered to negotiate for the Bogle Center for Financial Markets Research is an "interesting" question; presumably Michael W. Nolan would know.
Maybe a book of just speeches and not so much articles that appeared in trade journals.
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by nisiprius » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:01 am

abuss368 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am
...Maybe a book of just speeches and not so much articles that appeared in trade journals....
First approximation, then. I think you are talking about "every article listed on this web page, provided that the PDF file itself contains no copyright notice of its own, and therefore is probably governed by the notice at the bottom of the page, © Copyright 2006-2019 by John C. Bogle." Right?
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Re: Vanguard's "Bogle Site" gone? Hopefully just a glitch.

Post by abuss368 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:58 am

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:01 am
abuss368 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am
...Maybe a book of just speeches and not so much articles that appeared in trade journals....
First approximation, then. I think you are talking about "every article listed on this web page, provided that the PDF file itself contains no copyright notice of its own, and therefore is probably governed by the notice at the bottom of the page, © Copyright 2006-2019 by John C. Bogle." Right?
Kind off. Not articles but only speeches. Just thinking of keeping the message strong and moving forward and also supporting the center.
John C. Bogle: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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