Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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DaftInvestor
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am
This whole debate is crazy. Without the discipline none of it matters.
The OP says he has no discipline. With all the disparate views posted here he may only see it as a diversion to actually starting to work on his weight loss.

OPs original post has to do with discipline and the replies have not focused on that, but have diverted into a battle between diet and exercise. Discipline comes out of motivation, and perhaps people should post how a person can be motivated.
Why wouldn't someone try both diet and exercise at the same time. It is not rocket science.
This thread should be locked.
We have a winner. There is a common theme with all the various diets, methods, etc. - the folks that are successful have followed them with discipline. That's why every methodology/latest-fad-diet has numerous people that claimed that (insert favorite fad-diet) worked great for them - they could have followed almost ANY of the methods - the fact was - they chose to be disciplined enough to follow a method. Some methods might be less healthy for you than others - but any of them can work with discipline. (Pick a method that Counts Carbs or Calories or Fats - or some combo - - or - I see someone is now talking about Carbon Atoms! - but you must be disciplined).

OP: read through all the answers. Pick whatever method you want - but whatever it is - it won't success without discipline.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by stoptothink » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:24 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm
I like this 20 min explanation from a physicist about calories and the carbon atoms in the things we eat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIlsN32WaE
In a nutshell, the only way to get rid of carbon atoms found in our weight is to breath it out as carbon dioxide. Of course, if we don't let those carbon atoms get added to our weight in the first place, then that helps.

Not in the video, but the microbes in your gut can get some of your food calories, reproduce (make more microbes) and you can poop them out.
I've published an article on this very topic. It is fascinating, but adipose doesn't magically disappear, we actually exhale it.

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Cycle
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Cycle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm

Pizza_and_Beer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 pm
Cycle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:58 pm
Exercise? just sell you car and bike to work
Don't want to exercise today? Well you'll be fired for not showing up, so looks like it's another obligatory exercise day.
Exactly what I did.

Obligatory 60 minutes of daily exercise 5 days a week just with the simple act of going to work and then going home.
I've seen even people with long commutes do this... Car Bike combo.

You just park 5-7 miles from work and bike the rest of the way.

There are nice bike racks from saris or u can get a brompton folding bike and throw it in the trunk.

I actually do a bike / bus combo, ie I bike to an Express bus, then ride that for 15 minutes to my megacorp in the suburbs. I just practice Spanish on Duolingo on the bus and sip coffee.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Cycle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:08 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am
This whole debate is crazy. Without the discipline none of it matters.
The OP says he has no discipline. With all the disparate views posted here he may only see it as a diversion to actually starting to work on his weight loss.

OPs original post has to do with discipline and the replies have not focused on that, but have diverted into a battle between diet and exercise. Discipline comes out of motivation, and perhaps people should post how a person can be motivated.
Why wouldn't someone try both diet and exercise at the same time. It is not rocket science.
This thread should be locked.
We have a winner. There is a common theme with all the various diets, methods, etc. - the folks that are successful have followed them with discipline. That's why every methodology/latest-fad-diet has numerous people that claimed that (insert favorite fad-diet) worked great for them - they could have followed almost ANY of the methods - the fact was - they chose to be disciplined enough to follow a method. Some methods might be less healthy for you than others - but any of them can work with discipline. (Pick a method that Counts Carbs or Calories or Fats - or some combo - - or - I see someone is now talking about Carbon Atoms! - but you must be disciplined).

OP: read through all the answers. Pick whatever method you want - but whatever it is - it won't success without discipline.
I get 45 minutes of biking exercise per day and that doesn't take any discipline since I don't have a car.

I could take the bus in theory, but that takes forever and I'm far too lazy to do that, so I just bike.

I could buy a car, but I'm too much of a tree hugger and cheapskate, no discipline there.

I'd bet 100 dollars if op sold his car and started biking 10 miles a day (every day), op would be looking like David hasselhoff in 3 months. Plenty of stories on r/bikecommuting to corroborate my claim. Also theres the mens stats on Americans obesity (32.2) vs the Dutch(14.2).

Show me an obese daily bike commuter and I'll show u a hidden motor.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm

Cycle wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:08 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am
This whole debate is crazy. Without the discipline none of it matters.
The OP says he has no discipline. With all the disparate views posted here he may only see it as a diversion to actually starting to work on his weight loss.

OPs original post has to do with discipline and the replies have not focused on that, but have diverted into a battle between diet and exercise. Discipline comes out of motivation, and perhaps people should post how a person can be motivated.
Why wouldn't someone try both diet and exercise at the same time. It is not rocket science.
This thread should be locked.
We have a winner. There is a common theme with all the various diets, methods, etc. - the folks that are successful have followed them with discipline. That's why every methodology/latest-fad-diet has numerous people that claimed that (insert favorite fad-diet) worked great for them - they could have followed almost ANY of the methods - the fact was - they chose to be disciplined enough to follow a method. Some methods might be less healthy for you than others - but any of them can work with discipline. (Pick a method that Counts Carbs or Calories or Fats - or some combo - - or - I see someone is now talking about Carbon Atoms! - but you must be disciplined).

OP: read through all the answers. Pick whatever method you want - but whatever it is - it won't success without discipline.
I get 45 minutes of biking exercise per day and that doesn't take any discipline since I don't have a car.

I could take the bus in theory, but that takes forever and I'm far too lazy to do that, so I just bike.

I could buy a car, but I'm too much of a tree hugger and cheapskate, no discipline there.

I'd bet 100 dollars if op sold his car and started biking 10 miles a day (every day), op would be looking like David hasselhoff in 3 months. Plenty of stories on r/bikecommuting to corroborate my claim. Also theres the mens stats on Americans obesity (32.2) vs the Dutch(14.2).

Show me an obese daily bike commuter and I'll show u a hidden motor.
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.

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Cycle
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Cycle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:20 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Then my solid gold advice doesn't apply unless op is willing to get a new job. Personally I wouldnt want to work from home since I enjoy bike commuting so much, it's the best part of my day.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Hug401k » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:23 pm

Asking Bogleheads about diet is almost as bad as asking for fashion advice. Maybe next we could visit a personal debt forum and tell them not to spend money. Or we could visit the AA site and tell them they just shouldn't have a drink. :beer

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by randomguy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:27 pm

fortfun wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm
seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Not sure if anyone has mention this but muscle is very important. Just as you investments make money while you sleep, muscle will burn calories while you sleep. If sticking to a low calorie diet is hard for you, consider spending some time lifting weights, etc. and that will help burn the extra calories that you consume. Staying away from sugar and crappy carbs will probably have the biggest payoff, as far as diet is concerned.
1 lb of muscle burns about 6 calories/day. You will see a bunch of old stuff talking about 50 calories/lb and the like but that is just urban legend unfortunately. With the 30-40lbs of muscle max that most people can gain after 5 or so years of really working out hard with very good diets, you aren't getting much of a benefit in terms of staying lean. Now actually building that muscle would require a lot of gym time that would burn calories and there is plenty of benefits to being somewhat strong in normal life.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:28 pm

Cycle wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:20 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Then my advice doesn't apply unless op is willing to get a new job.
Its great that you don't need discipline because you bike to work every day. I know some folks that do it in the NorthEast (even on days when the weather is down into the teams; the snow/ice being the only killing factor) - perhaps you are one of them :). I think for many folks (40 mile drive all highway; work-from-home; etc.) it just isn't practical. Discipline to eat well and get daily exercise (I hit the gym) are key for many of us.

(Another factor on bicycling is safety depending upon where you live. Personally - when I was younger - I got run-off-the-road a couple of times in Boston (badly injured once) and that was enough for me to decide it wasn't worth the risk to bicycle into the city on city streets. There are still deaths in Boston/Cambridge every year (Couple of hundred incidents a year; a couple of deaths).

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by livesoft » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:35 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Since you don't commute, you could ride a bike 20 miles before starting work. I used to do that when I had a job close to my home.
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Cycle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:36 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:28 pm
Cycle wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:20 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Then my advice doesn't apply unless op is willing to get a new job.
Its great that you don't need discipline because you bike to work every day. I know some folks that do it in the NorthEast (even on days when the weather is down into the teams; the snow/ice being the only killing factor) - perhaps you are one of them :). I think for many folks (40 mile drive all highway; work-from-home; etc.) it just isn't practical. Discipline to eat well and get daily exercise (I hit the gym) are key for many of us.

(Another factor on bicycling is safety depending upon where you live. Personally - when I was younger - I got run-off-the-road a couple of times in Boston (badly injured once) and that was enough for me to decide it wasn't worth the risk to bicycle into the city on city streets. There are still deaths in Boston/Cambridge every year (Couple of hundred incidents a year; a couple of deaths).
Infrastructure is a legitimate excuse... In some cases. Cambridge has great infrastructure, but could use improvement. Boston has terrible bikeability.

Minneapolis is far colder than anywhere in the NE, but we have better infrastructure here. Appropriate layering makes weather a non-issue. It's weather, people have been dealing with it since we've been people.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:38 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:35 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Since you don't commute, you could ride a bike 20 miles before starting work. I used to do that when I had a job close to my home.
That takes discipline though.

livesoft
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by livesoft » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:40 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:38 pm
That takes discipline though.
Yep.

Here is one of the annual January pieces on learning to love to exercise (it's a quick read or a podcast listen):
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... e-exercise
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by stoptothink » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:41 pm

randomguy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:27 pm
fortfun wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm
seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Not sure if anyone has mention this but muscle is very important. Just as you investments make money while you sleep, muscle will burn calories while you sleep. If sticking to a low calorie diet is hard for you, consider spending some time lifting weights, etc. and that will help burn the extra calories that you consume. Staying away from sugar and crappy carbs will probably have the biggest payoff, as far as diet is concerned.
1 lb of muscle burns about 6 calories/day. You will see a bunch of old stuff talking about 50 calories/lb and the like but that is just urban legend unfortunately. With the 30-40lbs of muscle max that most people can gain after 5 or so years of really working out hard with very good diets, you aren't getting much of a benefit in terms of staying lean. Now actually building that muscle would require a lot of gym time that would burn calories and there is plenty of benefits to being somewhat strong in normal life.
Everybody should be doing some resistance training simply to maintain functional movement patterns and fight off sarcopenia, but this is the unfortunate truth. The real metabolic advantage of strength training comes from EPOC, not necessarily the metabolic activity of that lean tissue (which takes years and years to develop).

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Cycle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:43 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:35 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm
What if he works from home? My commute to my home office is only about 30 steps.
Since you don't commute, you could ride a bike 20 miles before starting work. I used to do that when I had a job close to my home.
Op has no discipline, so that's a non starter for them and frankly 99.9% of the population

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by randomguy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:46 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am
This whole debate is crazy. Without the discipline none of it matters.
The OP says he has no discipline. With all the disparate views posted here he may only see it as a diversion to actually starting to work on his weight loss.

OPs original post has to do with discipline and the replies have not focused on that, but have diverted into a battle between diet and exercise. Discipline comes out of motivation, and perhaps people should post how a person can be motivated.
Why wouldn't someone try both diet and exercise at the same time. It is not rocket science.
This thread should be locked.
We have a winner. There is a common theme with all the various diets, methods, etc. - the folks that are successful have followed them with discipline. That's why every methodology/latest-fad-diet has numerous people that claimed that (insert favorite fad-diet) worked great for them - they could have followed almost ANY of the methods - the fact was - they chose to be disciplined enough to follow a method. Some methods might be less healthy for you than others - but any of them can work with discipline. (Pick a method that Counts Carbs or Calories or Fats - or some combo - - or - I see someone is now talking about Carbon Atoms! - but you must be disciplined).

OP: read through all the answers. Pick whatever method you want - but whatever it is - it won't success without discipline.
Yes but the level of discipline varies between plans. I could give you an investment plan that required you to trade every 60 mins and you would find it almost impossible to execute no matter what your level of discipline. If I give you a plan that requires you to rebalance once per year, you would find it much easier to follow. Diets are the same. You need to find a life style where the discipline required is doable for you. Off loading thinking to routine (i.e. roll out of bed at 6 and get the exercise done by 7:30, make the same lunch every day, avoiding buying stuff you don't want to be eating), is a common way of doing that. Figuring out if you do better on high fat, low fat, fasting, lots of small meals,... is something you need to play with. The fact that science suggests that all of them work when followed doesn't mean that one or the other approaches isn't better for you.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by H-Town » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:00 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm
OP: read through all the answers. Pick whatever method you want - but whatever it is - it won't success without discipline.
I have a different perspective. It's a matter of habit. OP has established good habits with his or her finances. OP can do the same thing with a healthy lifestyle.

Below is an excerpt from the book I mentioned earlier.
She was the scientists’ favorite participant.

Lisa Allen, according to her file, was thirty-four years old, had started smoking and drinking when she was sixteen, and had struggled with obesity for most of her life. At one point, in her mid-twenties, collection agencies were hounding her to recover $10,000 in debts. An old résumé listed her longest job as lasting less than a year.

The woman in front of the researchers today, however, was lean and vibrant, with the toned legs of a runner. She looked a decade younger than the photos in her chart and like she could out-exercise anyone in the room. According to the most recent report in her file, Lisa had no outstanding debts, didn’t drink, and was in her thirty-ninth month at a graphic design firm.

“How long since your last cigarette?” one of the physicians asked, starting down the list of questions Lisa answered every time she came to this laboratory outside Bethesda, Maryland.
“Almost four years,” she said, “and I’ve lost sixty pounds and run a marathon since then.” She’d also started a master’s degree and bought a home. It had been an eventful stretch.

The scientists in the room included neurologists, psychologists, geneticists, and a sociologist. For the past three years, with funding from the National Institutes of Health, they had poked and prodded Lisa and more than two dozen other former smokers, chronic overeaters, problem drinkers, obsessive shoppers, and people with other destructive habits. All of the participants had one thing in common: They had remade their lives in relatively short periods of time. The researchers wanted to understand how. So they measured subjects’ vital signs, installed video cameras inside their homes to watch their daily routines, sequenced portions of their DNA, and, with technologies that allowed them to peer inside people’s skulls in real time, watched as blood and electrical impulses flowed through their brains while they were exposed to temptations such as cigarette smoke and lavish meals.prl.1 The researchers’ goal was to figure out how habits work on a neurological level—and what it took to make them change.

“I know you’ve told this story a dozen times,” the doctor said to Lisa, “but some of my colleagues have only heard it secondhand. Would you mind describing again how you gave up cigarettes?”
“Sure,” Lisa said. “It started in Cairo.” The vacation had been something of a rash decision, she explained. A few months earlier, her husband had come home from work and announced that he was leaving her because he was in love with another woman. It took Lisa a while to process the betrayal and absorb the fact that she was actually getting a divorce. There was a period of mourning, then a period of obsessively spying on him, following his new girlfriend around town, calling her after midnight and hanging up. Then there was the evening Lisa showed up at the girlfriend’s house, drunk, pounding on her door and screaming that she was going to burn the condo down.

“It wasn’t a great time for me,” Lisa said. “I had always wanted to see the pyramids, and my credit cards weren’t maxed out yet, so … ”

On her first morning in Cairo, Lisa woke at dawn to the sound of the call to prayer from a nearby mosque. It was pitch black inside her hotel room. Half blind and jet-lagged, she reached for a cigarette.
She was so disoriented that she didn’t realize—until she smelled burning plastic—that she was trying to light a pen, not a Marlboro. She had spent the past four months crying, binge eating, unable to sleep, and feeling ashamed, helpless, depressed, and angry, all at once. Lying in bed, she broke down. “It was like this wave of sadness,” she said. “I felt like everything I had ever wanted had crumbled. I couldn’t even smoke right.

“And then I started thinking about my ex-husband, and how hard it would be to find another job when I got back, and how much I was going to hate it and how unhealthy I felt all the time. I got up and knocked over a water jug and it shattered on the floor, and I started crying even harder. I felt desperate, like I had to change something, at least one thing I could control.”

She showered and left the hotel. As she rode through Cairo’s rutted streets in a taxi and then onto the dirt roads leading to the Sphinx, the pyramids of Giza, and the vast, endless desert around them, her self-pity, for a brief moment, gave way. She needed a goal in her life, she thought. Something to work toward.

So she decided, sitting in the taxi, that she would come back to Egypt and trek through the desert.

It was a crazy idea, Lisa knew. She was out of shape, overweight, with no money in the bank. She didn’t know the name of the desert she was looking at or if such a trip was possible. None of that mattered, though. She needed something to focus on. Lisa decided that she would give herself one year to prepare. And to survive such an expedition, she was certain she would have to make sacrifices.
In particular, she would need to quit smoking.

When Lisa finally made her way across the desert eleven months later—in an air-conditioned and motorized tour with a half-dozen other people, mind you—the caravan carried so much water, food, tents, maps, global positioning systems, and two-way radios that throwing in a carton of cigarettes wouldn’t have made much of a difference.

But in the taxi, Lisa didn’t know that. And to the scientists at the laboratory, the details of her trek weren’t relevant. Because for reasons they were just beginning to understand, that one small shift in Lisa’s perception that day in Cairo—the conviction that she had to give up smoking to accomplish her goal—had touched off a series of changes that would ultimately radiate out to every part of her life. Over the next six months, she would replace smoking with jogging, and that, in turn, changed how she ate, worked, slept, saved money, scheduled her workdays, planned for the future, and so on. She would start running half-marathons, and then a marathon, go back to school, buy a house, and get engaged. Eventually she was recruited into the scientists’ study, and when researchers began examining images of Lisa’s brain, they saw something remarkable: One set of neurological patterns—her old habits—had been overridden by new patterns. They could still see the neural activity of her old behaviors, but those impulses were crowded out by new urges. As Lisa’s habits changed, so had her brain.

It wasn’t the trip to Cairo that had caused the shift, scientists were convinced, or the divorce or desert trek. It was that Lisa had focused on changing just one habit—smoking—at first. Everyone in the study had gone through a similar process. By focusing on one pattern—what is known as a “keystone habit”—Lisa had taught herself how to reprogram the other routines in her life, as well.

It’s not just individuals who are capable of such shifts. When companies focus on changing habits, whole organizations can transform. Firms such as Procter & Gamble, Starbucks, Alcoa, and Target have seized on this insight to influence how work gets done, how employees communicate, and—without customers realizing it—the way people shop.

“I want to show you one of your most recent scans,” a researcher told Lisa near the end of her exam. He pulled up a picture on a computer screen that showed images from inside her head. “When you see food, these areas”—he pointed to a place near the center of her brain—“which are associated with craving and hunger, are still active. Your brain still produces the urges that made you overeat.
“However, there’s new activity in this area”—he pointed to the region closest to her forehead—“where we believe behavioral inhibition and self-discipline starts. That activity has become more pronounced each time you’ve come in.”

Lisa was the scientists’ favorite participant because her brain scans were so compelling, so useful in creating a map of where behavioral patterns—habits—reside within our minds. “You’re helping us understand how a decision becomes an automatic behavior,” the doctor told her.

Everyone in the room felt like they were on the brink of something important. And they were.

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seligsoj
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by seligsoj » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:21 pm

Op here....I. an overwhelmed by all the awesome responses and helpful tips. I am going to spend time re-reading all of them as I develop my weight loss strategy. I will check back in and let you know how I'm doing with the weight loss!

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