Boglehead's Car Talk

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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m@ver1ck
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Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by m@ver1ck » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:12 pm

Thinking of getting a new car. It's hard since there is no rational reason to do so.
Circumstances:

Currently, I have a Rav4 and a Forester:

The car I bought after college was a VW New Beetle. Loved the car, but had lots of issues with it. Seemed like it needed strut mounts every 20 miles (or maybe dealer was pushing for it for no reason). And leaky water pumps.

I drove it for 10 years, until it was clear it was going to cost way too much to maintain it. I also had several accidents in it, and as a result there was always some or the other issue with it. I just wasn't sophisticated enough to pin it on bad work/repairs by body shops to fix accidents. That and VW's just isn't that great from a reliability perspective. Still, fond memories, and I loved that car.

Second car: Rav4. 2010. with beatle on it's last legs, got this car so we could use the beetle for another few years (just use it less).
Never liked the car - it was a 100% rational decision at that time, but I always got (and still do) get mildly depressed riding in it. It still works great. 45K miles, 0 issues. 100% reliable. 100% soulless.

Third Car: Traded the new beetle for a GTI. GTI got rear ended. Started running into minor problems with it not steering 100% true. Me being stupid and once bitten twice shy with the beetle, decided to sell it/trade it in for a forester. I had gotten a great deal for the GTI, so I only lost 8K after driving it for 3 years. All in all, not too bad a deal. Rational to get the GTI - I'm making enough that I can afford to get the car fixed.

Love the forester's EyeSight.

ThInking it's time to swap the rav4 for something else. Again - it's not sensible at all - since it runs fine.

Anyway -
Here's the thought process/and questions:
I love what Subaru Eyesight does, so either
a) Get a Subaru Ascent - can be the family car. Third row willl come handy when parents come visit. They're here for several months - so just renting for that period doesnt make sense.
b) Have the forester be the family car. Get a Subaru Crosstrek (with Eyesight).

The eyesight feature is the one thing that's pushing me to get a newer car (that's the only rational thing I can think of). If it prevents one accident, it's paid for itself.

so yeah - the question: a) or b)?

Second question:
If I'm getting a smaller car, any other cars that have the features that Subaru Eyesight does.

I was thinking about going back to VW - but they don't seem to have anything to compete - I'm assuming they would be hyping it up if they did. VWs are way more comfortable than the subaru forester - and somehow seem to fit me like a glove...

Audis might - but per webisite, they seem to want to charge you by line of code the software guys have written - Nickel and Diming you for everything.

Also, the whole VW/Audi Diesel scandal has left a bad taste for VW/Audi. I don't trust them anymore - so no idea whether the safety stuff will actually work when called upon. Maybe the software engineers have also written code to pass the tests - but will fail to work in real life.

CorradoJr
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by CorradoJr » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:27 am

Almost every manufacturer has some sort of automomous tech nowadays - and some are more feature laden than others:

Cadillac Super Cruise
Audi Traffic Jam Pilot
Nissan/Infinity Pro-Pilot
Volvo Pilot Assist
Toyota Triple Safety Sense, etc.

I would buy the car thet works for your situation first (sedan, SUV, budget, etc.) and then ensure the safety system you like is an optiom for the model you select.

Solely focusing on one aspect (who has good autonomous saftey tech) might leave you longing for other features after the sale - i.e great safety tech but poor MPG, poor comfort, poor reliability, etc.)

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Alexa9
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:11 pm

If you look at it logically and rationally you should like a reliable boring car.
If you look at it emotionally, you'll fall for the high maintenance fun car.
Neither choice is wrong!

TheAccountant
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by TheAccountant » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:04 pm

Don’t replace it just because of age or miles. Do you invest based off of today’s news? Run the numbers and then make the decision.

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wabbajack
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by wabbajack » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:15 pm

You should explain what Subaru Eyesight is. I had to Google it. What you're basically asking for is driver assistance systems. I have a bit of personal experience to share.

I just came back from driving a rental Volvo S90 with Pilot Assist for 850 miles over 3 days. It had these features:
- Preventive braking (aka collision avoidance)
- Crash alerts (This came on when I pulled into an opposing lane to overtake)
- Adaptive (radar) cruise control
- Lane Keep Assist (it will steer itself within lines)
- Beepers on all corners and sides of the vehicle (for parking)
- Self-Parking, although I didn't test it because I like parking for myself
- 360 top-down surround camera, plus cross traffic radar to help the now mandatory backup camera

When I got back into my 2017 Cadillac ATS with a simple backup camera, it felt like going back to the stone age. All this tech (especially adaptive cruise control) will likely pay for itself the more you drive. However, it's also only available on new cars, so you will always be eating the depreciation.

Why are you only shopping Subarus? And why do you need another SUV? I'd shop around more. VW/Audi safety stuff does work - I drove a 2017 Audi for a year and can personally confirm the collision avoidance saved me multiple times.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:53 pm

Keep the RAV4. Keep the Forester. Stop dreaming about Volkswagens.

I write this as the owner of a 2002 Volkswagen Golf that still runs fine. My next car will be either a 2019 RAV4 or a Forester.
Retiree with a pension and a 60/40 taxable portfolio: Total Stock + Total Int'l + Total Bond + Interm Term Tax Exempt.

RootSki
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by RootSki » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm

Life is too short to drive boring cars.

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wabbajack
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by wabbajack » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:42 pm

RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
+ 1 million

mikeyzito22
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by mikeyzito22 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:45 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:53 pm
Keep the RAV4. Keep the Forester. Stop dreaming about Volkswagens.

I write this as the owner of a 2002 Volkswagen Golf that still runs fine. My next car will be either a 2019 RAV4 or a Forester.
Yep. I just purchased a brand new Rav4 and it is killer. BTW, test drove the Forester, not so happy. PDX.

JuniorBH
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by JuniorBH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:16 am

wabbajack wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:42 pm
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
+ 1 million
with another +1 million on top!

bloom2708
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by bloom2708 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:43 am

RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Life is too short to think about cars all the time. Boring or exciting. :wink:

Other than your house, nothing will take your money faster. How much you got? Send it in.
Where to spend your time: | 1. You completely control <--spend your time here! | 2. You partially control <--spend your time here! | 3. You have no control <--spend no time here!

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Scott S
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Scott S » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am

RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
My Plan: (Age-10)% in bonds until I reach age 60, 50/50 thereafter. Equity split: 50/50 US/Int'l, Bond split: 50/50 TBM/TIPS.

BogleMelon
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by BogleMelon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:57 am

RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
It becomes way shorter when wasting 8 hours a day Mon-Fri working. I'd rather prefer building wealth and be free of the rat race than driving a fast car and get tickets! (roads are capped at 65 mph here, so fast car don't make sense in my state)
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

FRANK2009
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by FRANK2009 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.

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tyrion
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by tyrion » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:20 pm

You can always buy fun/interesting cars within a given budget. I drive a Prius, which is pretty much all the way on the practical side of the practical-fun continuum. My next car will likely be on the other side, but still reasonable. Mazda3 or Civic SI or VW GTI.

The other thing you can do with a family is buy 2 different style of cars. No need to have 2 mid sized SUVs. Just one will do, and the other car can be a more sporty sedan (cheaper than an equivalent SUV with different driving characteristics) or a truck (much different utility) or something else interesting.

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El Greco
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by El Greco » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:25 pm

Mazda CX-5. Personality, Looks, Reliability and crammed with safety features. Give one a test drive.

sport
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by sport » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:

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Watty
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Watty » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:34 pm

m@ver1ck wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:12 pm
If I'm getting a smaller car, any other cars that have the features that Subaru Eyesight does.
Toyota added a lot of safety features as standard equipment in 2018 or 2017. I have not been following it but they may have added some more for 2019 models. Some other brands have many of the safety features on higher trim levels or as options so it is hard to generalize without looking into the details.

I have a 2018 Corolla which has a lot of standard safety features so the Corolla would be worth looking at to see if it has the ones you want. The Yaris has a few less.

One thing to watch out for is that some new cars do not have a spare tire and I consider that to be a safety problem since I am sometimes out in the boondocks where I do not get any cell phone signal.

I would buy a Chrysler car before I would buy a VW, I have heard of way too many people having major problems with a VW and dumping it because it was so much trouble.

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Scott S
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Scott S » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm

FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
My Plan: (Age-10)% in bonds until I reach age 60, 50/50 thereafter. Equity split: 50/50 US/Int'l, Bond split: 50/50 TBM/TIPS.

researcher
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by researcher » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."

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Scott S
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Scott S » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:10 pm

researcher wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."
Sounds about right for C&D. They love $$$ high-powered luxury cars, and will bash anything that doesn't perform to that level. I put about as much faith in them as movie reviewers.
My Plan: (Age-10)% in bonds until I reach age 60, 50/50 thereafter. Equity split: 50/50 US/Int'l, Bond split: 50/50 TBM/TIPS.

MichCPA
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by MichCPA » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:22 pm

researcher wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."
+1 Motorweek says the 0-60 time is 10.0 seconds. You simply can't compare a current car to a car old enough to drink. They need more horsepower because they weigh more.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 pm

sport wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:
I did the math a few years back about the difference between buying a new fancy car every 3 years for him and her vs holding unto a not so fancy cars for 10 years. Taking that cash and investing it over 30 years comes out to about $750k in todays money. I guess you are right, not driving fancy cars is exactly how plenty of millionaires became millionaires.

I guess the decision for some is to keep working longer and drive a fancy car to work vs having the free time to not have to drive to work at all.

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Scott S
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Scott S » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm

MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:22 pm
researcher wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."
+1 Motorweek says the 0-60 time is 10.0 seconds. You simply can't compare a current car to a car old enough to drink. They need more horsepower because they weigh more.
Practically the same curb weight in this case. 3089 lbs for my Outback, 3100-3200 lbs for the Crosstrek. HP/lb a little better for the Crosstrek.

Not that I want to drag this out indefinitely, but my point is that there's no substitute for test-driving a car yourself. Everyone's needs and expectations are different.
My Plan: (Age-10)% in bonds until I reach age 60, 50/50 thereafter. Equity split: 50/50 US/Int'l, Bond split: 50/50 TBM/TIPS.

NHRATA01
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:35 pm

A fun car need not be a fancy car.

I paid roughly a $5K premium for a 2016 Chevy SS sedan ($40K, thanks GM for 20% off ;) ) over about what an equivalently optioned Toyota Camry
XLE V6 ($35K) would have cost.

Best legal $5K I could have spent!
Last edited by NHRATA01 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MichCPA
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by MichCPA » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:36 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 pm
sport wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:
I did the math a few years back about the difference between buying a new fancy car every 3 years for him and her vs holding unto a not so fancy cars for 10 years. Taking that cash and investing it over 30 years comes out to about $750k in todays money. I guess you are right, not driving fancy cars is exactly how plenty of millionaires became millionaires.

I guess the decision for some is to keep working longer and drive a fancy car to work vs having the free time to not have to drive to work at all.
You don't need a ton of money for a car that isn't boring. An older jeep or a couple year old camaro, mustang, or challenger are interesting car. The Civic Si and Focus ST as well.

NHRATA01
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:39 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:10 pm
researcher wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."
Sounds about right for C&D. They love $$$ high-powered luxury cars, and will bash anything that doesn't perform to that level. I put about as much faith in them as movie reviewers.
C&D don't only love high $ cars, they are well aware of economics. In particular they are big fans of Mazdas, notably the Miata and 3, which are most reasonably priced.

They're also big fans of the current Civic, and have said the Camaro SS is a superior car to the M4.

MichCPA
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by MichCPA » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:44 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm
MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:22 pm
researcher wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm
FRANK2009 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Probably cross the Cross-trek off your list. I repeatedly read that they are slow and small.
My sister-in-law owns one, and I've driven it. I was pleasantly surprised by the pep of that little 2.0L -- it actually puts out more horsepower than the 2.2L in my '96 Outback. If a family of four thinks it's "too small" they bought the wrong car. :P
Geez, if it puts out more power than a car that's 2.5 decades old, then it must compare very favorably to a horse & buggy!

Car and Driver describes it as having a "gutless engine" that "will leave you wanting for more grunt, as it feels strained and overworked in daily use." Additionally, it "makes unpleasant noises when pushed, something you will do often given its lackadaisical acceleration."
+1 Motorweek says the 0-60 time is 10.0 seconds. You simply can't compare a current car to a car old enough to drink. They need more horsepower because they weigh more.
Practically the same curb weight in this case. 3089 lbs for my Outback, 3100-3200 lbs for the Crosstrek. HP/lb a little better for the Crosstrek.

Not that I want to drag this out indefinitely, but my point is that there's no substitute for test-driving a car yourself. Everyone's needs and expectations are different.
If you don't need acceleration that is fine, but I don't see any possible way you can call the Crosstrek quick or even average. Its objectively speaking a slow car.

researcher
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by researcher » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:51 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:10 pm
Sounds about right for C&D. They love $$$ high-powered luxury cars, and will bash anything that doesn't perform to that level. I put about as much faith in them as movie reviewers.
You are wrong.

They rate cars relative to the class of vehicles they are associated with. Even then, vehicles they rate #1 often DON'T have the best performance numbers in their category. They heap plenty of praise on normal, everyday cars that don't perform at "high-powered luxury car" levels.

Have you even seen any of their reviews of normal cars?
NONE of their #1 picks for mainstream cars and SUVs have the best performance within their category. Examples include...
- Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Honda Ridgeline, Mazda CX-5, Mazda CX-9, Volkswagen Golf

EnjoyIt
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:00 pm

MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:36 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 pm
sport wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:
I did the math a few years back about the difference between buying a new fancy car every 3 years for him and her vs holding unto a not so fancy cars for 10 years. Taking that cash and investing it over 30 years comes out to about $750k in todays money. I guess you are right, not driving fancy cars is exactly how plenty of millionaires became millionaires.

I guess the decision for some is to keep working longer and drive a fancy car to work vs having the free time to not have to drive to work at all.
You don't need a ton of money for a car that isn't boring. An older jeep or a couple year old camaro, mustang, or challenger are interesting car. The Civic Si and Focus ST as well.
Non boring cars also suck up more gas and cost more to insure since sports cars cost more to insure. Fine, in your scenario maybe the difference is worth $500k instead of $750k.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. BTW, I have a fancy car that is now 6 years old and I still make the above statement. This fancy car has delayed our financial independence by about 12 months due to higher cost of the vehicle and the increased cost to operate said vehicle. 6 years ago it was something I really really wanted and it has cost me over a thousand hours of servitude towards my employer. Was it worth it?

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Scott S
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by Scott S » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:21 pm

This thread is fun.

"I've driven the car."

"Yeah, but have you read the reviews??"

:sharebeer
My Plan: (Age-10)% in bonds until I reach age 60, 50/50 thereafter. Equity split: 50/50 US/Int'l, Bond split: 50/50 TBM/TIPS.

RootSki
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by RootSki » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:49 pm

Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am
RootSki wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Life is too short to drive boring cars.
Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
I was one of those millionaires, until once day I decided I wasn't going to be that millionaire anymore. :beer :moneybag

MichCPA
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Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by MichCPA » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:52 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:00 pm
MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:36 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 pm
sport wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Scott S wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 am


Oh, I dunno. Lots of millionaires drive boring cars like Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. ;)
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:
I did the math a few years back about the difference between buying a new fancy car every 3 years for him and her vs holding unto a not so fancy cars for 10 years. Taking that cash and investing it over 30 years comes out to about $750k in todays money. I guess you are right, not driving fancy cars is exactly how plenty of millionaires became millionaires.

I guess the decision for some is to keep working longer and drive a fancy car to work vs having the free time to not have to drive to work at all.
You don't need a ton of money for a car that isn't boring. An older jeep or a couple year old camaro, mustang, or challenger are interesting car. The Civic Si and Focus ST as well.
Non boring cars also suck up more gas and cost more to insure since sports cars cost more to insure. Fine, in your scenario maybe the difference is worth $500k instead of $750k.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. BTW, I have a fancy car that is now 6 years old and I still make the above statement. This fancy car has delayed our financial independence by about 12 months due to higher cost of the vehicle and the increased cost to operate said vehicle. 6 years ago it was something I really really wanted and it has cost me over a thousand hours of servitude towards my employer. Was it worth it?
Lol, User name does not check out. :D

A 2013 Civic Si is about 13K from a private party according to KBB and gets 22/31 MPG. It is an interesting car, its fairly economical, and not outrageously priced.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:47 pm

MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:52 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:00 pm
MichCPA wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:36 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 pm
sport wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Perhaps that's how they became millionaires. :mrgreen:
I did the math a few years back about the difference between buying a new fancy car every 3 years for him and her vs holding unto a not so fancy cars for 10 years. Taking that cash and investing it over 30 years comes out to about $750k in todays money. I guess you are right, not driving fancy cars is exactly how plenty of millionaires became millionaires.

I guess the decision for some is to keep working longer and drive a fancy car to work vs having the free time to not have to drive to work at all.
You don't need a ton of money for a car that isn't boring. An older jeep or a couple year old camaro, mustang, or challenger are interesting car. The Civic Si and Focus ST as well.
Non boring cars also suck up more gas and cost more to insure since sports cars cost more to insure. Fine, in your scenario maybe the difference is worth $500k instead of $750k.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. BTW, I have a fancy car that is now 6 years old and I still make the above statement. This fancy car has delayed our financial independence by about 12 months due to higher cost of the vehicle and the increased cost to operate said vehicle. 6 years ago it was something I really really wanted and it has cost me over a thousand hours of servitude towards my employer. Was it worth it?
Lol, User name does not check out. :D

A 2013 Civic Si is about 13K from a private party according to KBB and gets 22/31 MPG. It is an interesting car, its fairly economical, and not outrageously priced.
I think my name checks out perfectly :)
I would rather spend time doing what I want instead of sitting in my fancy car driving to work.
I work part time and enjoying my freedom.

BTW, even if someone drives mostly to work and back the car just a sits there doing nothing at least 20-23 hours a day. Some days it isn’t even being used. Why spend so many resources on an item that barely has any utilization.

BTW, if I repeat my car mistake every 6 years for 30 years It will require an extra 4-5 years of my life working for it. Is that worth the fancy car.

Unfortunately since I now have experienced fancy, a civic just isn’t going to cut it for my fancy taste. Might as well downgrade all the way.

lostdog
Posts: 1181
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by lostdog » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:10 am

The ultimate boglehead car----> The Toyota Corolla.

dsmclone
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

Re: Boglehead's Car Talk

Post by dsmclone » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 am

Every time I see one of these posts it makes me aware that the right answer for you may not be the right answer for everyone else.

Maybe you'll buy the one Toyota Corolla that is a lemon.

"I'm just going to drive it until it dies, that is always the most economical". No it's not. The most economical may be riding a bike, taking a bus, buying a different used car, walking, etc.

For some people cars are a way to get from point a to b. For others, it's a hobby/passion. We have some friends that get a big kick out of the fact that they got 300k miles out of the Honda Pilot over the last 12 years. In this same time, I've probably had 4 different cars. Outside of maintenance, they probably spent $35k in those 12 years in lost value. In that same time, I've probably spent about $50k in lost value. So I spend about $1,300/year more to drive something newer. However, when they go on vacation they have no problem dropping $600/night on a hotel where we will spend $200/night in the same city. If i was going to take a guess I would say they spend $3,000/year more on hotels than we do. Do I think this is stupid, yes. Do they think me buying a different car every 3-4 years is stupid, yes. In the end, both couples are financially responsible but we each have things that we don't have a problem spending money on to get a better experience.

I also love people that lease high end luxury cars that I can buy for 1/2 price 3 years later.

So in summary, everyone is different.

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