Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

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ThisJustIn
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Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by ThisJustIn » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 pm

I'm planning to buy treasury bills (26-weeks and 52-weeks) before the auction end dates. I was initially planning to buy it through Treasury Direct, but I realized that I can't connect my Treasury Direct Account to cumulative net worth calculators in Wealthfront and Personal Capital. So, I was looking for other options, and I realized that I can buy Treasury notes in Vanguard (or Fidelity, but Vanguard is my preference). I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure) of buying Treasury notes in Vanguard, instead of Treasury Direct.

Wind_Reaver
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Wind_Reaver » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:51 pm

I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure)
Side-effect is the ability to buy at auction, or buy/sell on the open market.
Treasury Direct restricted to new issues.
Only cost for the secondary market would be bid/ask spread, which is usually small on Treasurys.

Schwab also a zero-fee treasury option.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by ThisJustIn » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:59 pm

Wind_Reaver wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:51 pm
I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure)
Side-effect is the ability to buy at auction, or buy/sell on the open market.
Treasury Direct restricted to new issues.
Only cost for the secondary market would be bid/ask spread, which is usually small on Treasurys.

Schwab also a zero-fee treasury option.
I will be buying at auction, but I guess there is only a short time frame I can buy at auction time in Vanguard or other brokerage accounts.

mega317
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by mega317 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:01 pm

Only thing I can think of is that you have to buy in increments of $1,000, whereas you can buy multiples of $100 at Treasury Direct.

ThisJustIn
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by ThisJustIn » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:05 pm

mega317 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:01 pm
Only thing I can think of is that you have to buy in increments of $1,000, whereas you can buy multiples of $100 at Treasury Direct.
Thanks, yes, that's another difference, but I should be ok with this one.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by ThisJustIn » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:09 pm

Another thing I noticed is this: Vanguard has expected yield of 1.934% for 26-week treasury bills, whereas Fidelity has 1.95% for the same treasury bills, which differ. Will these yield amounts become the same after the auction, regardless of the brokerage account I use?

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by mega317 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:12 pm

ThisJustIn wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:09 pm
Another thing I noticed is this: Vanguard has expected yield of 1.934% for 26-week treasury bills, whereas Fidelity has 1.95% for the same treasury bills, which differ. Will these yield amounts become the same after the auction, regardless of the brokerage account I use?
Interesting, it was just 1.95% at Vanguard. I think I looked about 12 hours ago. Anyway yes it will be the same after the auction--it's literally the same thing that you're buying.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Wind_Reaver » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:14 pm

I guess there is only a short time frame I can buy at auction time in Vanguard or other brokerage accounts.
For whatever reason, Vanguard's website does not always update all the current auctions in a timely manner.
The time between the announcement and auction is determined by the length of the issue.
Best reference to verify if Vanguard's website is up-to-date is the Treasury Auction Calendar

Edit: Corrected redundancy.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by txranger » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:46 am

Which term is better to buy giving expected rate hikes this year, 1 mo, 3 mo or 6 mo tbill?
How liquid are they ie if need $ tomorrow and hold a $1000 in one of those bills and want to sell it how much s a loss roughly? If loss is low, would it make sense to hold longer duration to get higher yield?
Also, when can I buy them, biz hrs each thu or fidelity site?
Tnx appr

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am

Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by welderwannabe » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 am

ThisJustIn wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 pm
I'm planning to buy treasury bills (26-weeks and 52-weeks) before the auction end dates. I was initially planning to buy it through Treasury Direct, but I realized that I can't connect my Treasury Direct Account to cumulative net worth calculators in Wealthfront and Personal Capital. So, I was looking for other options, and I realized that I can buy Treasury notes in Vanguard (or Fidelity, but Vanguard is my preference). I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure) of buying Treasury notes in Vanguard, instead of Treasury Direct.
My treasury direct is linked to Personal Capital.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by radiowave » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:32 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
Yes, Fidelity does have an automatic roll over feature, Vanguard does not.
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Nate79 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:03 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
I would love to know if Schwab has this feature.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Does anyone know if the brokerages (Fidelity,Schwab,Vanguard) earn anything if we buy treasury bills or bonds through auction and hold to maturity?
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by tludwig23 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:54 pm

I buy 30-year at auction TIPS bonds through Fidelity. The process is simple, the bonds appear with all my other retirement money, and I don't have to have another account, password, etc. From what I've read, all the financial details are exactly the same either way.
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by smectym » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:24 am

So, I buy treasuries through Treasury Direct. Any DISadvantages to that method vs. buying through Vanguard or Fidelity? I have brokerage accounts at both

Smectym

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by triceratop » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:37 am

Nate79 wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:03 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
I would love to know if Schwab has this feature.
I would be interested as well. I'll call Schwab tomorrow if no one knows (it doesn't appear on their website).
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by lazyday » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:19 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:34 pm
Does anyone know if the brokerages (Fidelity,Schwab,Vanguard) earn anything if we buy treasury bills or bonds through auction and hold to maturity?
Treasury Bonds pay interest. If you let the interest sit in your account at Fidelity or Schwab, you will generally earn less than if you reinvested into Treasury Bills. Fidelity and especially Schwab both seem to make a profit on cash balances.

Similar for cash in the account before settlement when buying at auction, and after settlement upon maturity.

At Vanguard, cash balances are invested in Federal Money Market, which has a low expense ratio that only covers costs without profit.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by lazyday » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:22 am

smectym wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:24 am
So, I buy treasuries through Treasury Direct. Any DISadvantages to that method vs. buying through Vanguard or Fidelity? I have brokerage accounts at both
When I last checked, you could not sell Treasuries at Treasury Direct. You can sell Treasuries at VG, Fido, and Schwab.

I'm not sure if there's any difference in pricing at the three brokers. I think all three let you trade Treasuries without commissions, but perhaps one has more narrow spreads than the others?

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by cameljockey » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:38 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
I had called up Vanguard about this, and they do not offer an automatic rollover. Meaning, if you purchase 6 month t-bills, at duration the money will move over to a money market account, and you need to remember to re-purchase the next wave. Vanguard indicated they are looking into adding this automated functionality in the future. Fidelity inversely does offer auto rollover today (no fee if done online, and they will gladly walk you through how to do it online if you call them). I am pretty sure Schwab offers this as well. This is for new purchases held to duration, which it sounds like is what you want.

In speaking with Vanguard and Fidelity, I believe neither brokerage profits from the sale of t-bills. They simply do it to get money into their brokerages, knowing that eventually you will likely move the money into a fund.
Last edited by cameljockey on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by HAWK23 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:29 pm

welderwannabe wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 am
ThisJustIn wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 pm
I'm planning to buy treasury bills (26-weeks and 52-weeks) before the auction end dates. I was initially planning to buy it through Treasury Direct, but I realized that I can't connect my Treasury Direct Account to cumulative net worth calculators in Wealthfront and Personal Capital. So, I was looking for other options, and I realized that I can buy Treasury notes in Vanguard (or Fidelity, but Vanguard is my preference). I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure) of buying Treasury notes in Vanguard, instead of Treasury Direct.
My treasury direct is linked to Personal Capital.
Mine does too.

lazyday
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by lazyday » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:20 am

If costs are the reason for choosing bills, note that some ETFs these days have low expense ratios. May be worth the convenience for some.

ICSH has ER .08, duration .33 years, and takes on credit risk. SEC yield 2.24%. https://www.ishares.com/us/products/258 ... income-etf

VGSH has ER .07, duration 1.9 years, Treasury only. SEC yield 2.30%.
https://advisors.vanguard.com/web/cf/fa ... 2/overview

SHV has ER .15 but the shares are quite liquid. Duration .36 years, Treasury only. SEC yield 1.66.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by vtMaps » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 am

One other difference: The brokerages will send you a 1099 tax form. At treasury direct you need to remember to go online and download and print your 1099.

--vtMaps
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by jacoavlu » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:38 am

advantages of Treasury Direct:
can purchase in $100 increments - $1,000 at brokerages
can set auto repurchase - not available at some brokerages
can enter buy orders for one or multiple auctions far in advance - new issues orders at brokerages only available after official auction announcement (which usually only gives you one day to enter orders for 4 week bills)
funds can come straight in and out from checking or savings - brokerages require transfer in, I imagine

advantages of brokerage:
easy access to secondary market, so it's easy to sell before maturity, subject to market price
statements
housed with your other investments

I'm sure there are other considerations not coming to me at the moment.

Regarding "what should you buy" I would choose that based on maturity, rather than the yield

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:44 am

vtMaps wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 am
One other difference: The brokerages will send you a 1099 tax form. At treasury direct you need to remember to go online and download and print your 1099.

--vtMaps
I view this one in a slightly different way:
"Some brokerages will still send you a 1099 tax form via regular mail even if you have electronic-only-documentation selected on your accounts (risking your 1099 being mis-delivered to your neighbors). Treasury Direct won''t do this - you have the security of knowing the 1099 will only be available electronically".

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by jacoavlu » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:49 am

triceratop wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:37 am
Nate79 wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:03 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
I would love to know if Schwab has this feature.
I would be interested as well. I'll call Schwab tomorrow if no one knows (it doesn't appear on their website).
Did you ever call Schwab about this? Keen to know as well. If it's available, I've never found it. They send an email when the bill is approaching maturity.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by aristotelian » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:00 am

welderwannabe wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 am
ThisJustIn wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 pm
I'm planning to buy treasury bills (26-weeks and 52-weeks) before the auction end dates. I was initially planning to buy it through Treasury Direct, but I realized that I can't connect my Treasury Direct Account to cumulative net worth calculators in Wealthfront and Personal Capital. So, I was looking for other options, and I realized that I can buy Treasury notes in Vanguard (or Fidelity, but Vanguard is my preference). I was wondering if there is any side-effect (or cost, I checked online and it says it's free, but just wanted to make sure) of buying Treasury notes in Vanguard, instead of Treasury Direct.
My treasury direct is linked to Personal Capital.
+1. It worked for me until I deleted my PC account although you need to enter the passcode every time you want it to update.

I have to say, making an investment decision based on Personal Capital connectivity is seriously lettering the tail wag the dog.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Nate79 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:22 am

jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:49 am
triceratop wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:37 am
Nate79 wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:03 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
I would love to know if Schwab has this feature.
I would be interested as well. I'll call Schwab tomorrow if no one knows (it doesn't appear on their website).
Did you ever call Schwab about this? Keen to know as well. If it's available, I've never found it. They send an email when the bill is approaching maturity.
Schwab does not have auto roll option confirmed thru Schwab chat.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by TreadLightly » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:24 pm

txranger wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:46 am
Which term is better to buy giving expected rate hikes this year, 1 mo, 3 mo or 6 mo tbill?
How liquid are they ie if need $ tomorrow and hold a $1000 in one of those bills and want to sell it how much s a loss roughly? If loss is low, would it make sense to hold longer duration to get higher yield?
Also, when can I buy them, biz hrs each thu or fidelity site?
Tnx appr
I've concluded that in my taxable accounts for short terms like those you mentioned, actually a 2% savings account looks better. With this option you won't have to worry about rate hikes, although your yield won't be guaranteed. Newbie here, but that's just what I've found for my short term stuff.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by dodonnell » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:48 pm

When buying Individual Treasury Bills in the secondary market, your "Markup" / "Markdown" is usually dependent on "size". There are minimum quantities associated with each bid/ask. Depending on the market, it can take upwards of 50, 75, or 100k Bills to avoid a slippage of 10 to 15 bips. Below is a Fidelity screenshot from this morning. The market spread on a single bond is 1.990% - 1.730% or 0.26%. Divided by 2 is 0.13% slippage.

Image

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Angkor » Thu May 03, 2018 11:20 am

I have two questions:

a) (basic question) how exactly do I purchase T-bills via Vanguard? I've searched their site, but can't figure it out.

b) Vanguard also offers a variety of Treasury funds. Cost for Admiral shares is quite low. What are the pluses/minuses of buying T-bill funds vs bonds directly from the Treasury?

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by raixx017 » Wed May 23, 2018 10:08 pm

Hello,

Bumping this up, as I was also interested in knowing how to buy T-bills through Vangaurd.
I want to buy "new issues".

I selected "Market" type as Auction and this what came up.

As you can see, there's no place to select "buy". How does one go about buying (or placing an order for the next auction) via Vangaurd ?
Does anyone know, if Vangaurd charges commission or any other kind of fee for this ?

Image


Thanks !

ThisJustIn
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by ThisJustIn » Wed May 23, 2018 10:51 pm

raixx017 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:08 pm
Hello,

Bumping this up, as I was also interested in knowing how to buy T-bills through Vangaurd.
I want to buy "new issues".

I selected "Market" type as Auction and this what came up.

As you can see, there's no place to select "buy". How does one go about buying (or placing an order for the next auction) via Vangaurd ?
Does anyone know, if Vangaurd charges commission or any other kind of fee for this ?

Image


Thanks !
In your account, go to "Buy and Sell" tab, then click "Trade bonds and CDs", and a page similar to your screenshot will show up. In this screenshot, on the "Select" column (first column), when there are auctions available (they are available often, you should be able to see at least one auction most of the time, so what you see here is just a coincidence), there will be a "Buy" link. Then, you will click on that buy link, enter quantity, and buy. The term is fixed, it doesn't start at the time you buy, it starts at the time specified in the Treasury bond fund.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by whodidntante » Wed May 23, 2018 11:00 pm

I can connect Treasury Direct to Personal Capital, in fact I do.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by mega317 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:42 pm

raixx017, if you scroll down from your screenshot do you have the option to buy the 7-year? That's all that's available right now. The auctions are on a schedule and you can only buy after they're announced. I believe tomorrow you will be able to buy 4-, 13-, and 26-weeks.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by dodonnell » Thu May 24, 2018 8:19 am

This link of auction schedule was previously posted by another gracious Boglehead:
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... ctions.pdf

Question: Can Treasury Direct account holders buy in quantities greater than $ 1M?

I've scoured the TreasuryDirect website, I see only a 5M limitation on each auction, but this question relates to the linked checking account and Treasury ACH'ing 5M from a TD Bank checking account to cover the purchase. Are there any limitations in the method of payment?

thanx dano

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by raixx017 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:40 am

ThisJustIn, mega317

Thanks for posting detailed instructions. Yes, I can now see the "buy" option. Also, I found this written when I selected to buy 3 months Bills ... "Notes:
Yields include commission."

Thanks, again !

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by triceratop » Thu May 31, 2018 12:42 am

Question: I have 26-week T-bills maturing 10/11/2018. There happens to be an auction for 26-week T-bills on 10/11/2018. As previously discussed Schwab does not allow rollover of Treasuries. However, since they know it is maturing at face value, will they allow me to place an auction order, since settlement occurs later?
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by manedark » Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am

raixx017 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:08 pm
Hello,

Bumping this up, as I was also interested in knowing how to buy T-bills through Vangaurd.
I want to buy "new issues".

I selected "Market" type as Auction and this what came up.

As you can see, there's no place to select "buy". How does one go about buying (or placing an order for the next auction) via Vangaurd ?
Does anyone know, if Vangaurd charges commission or any other kind of fee for this ?

Image


Thanks !
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by dodonnell » Thu May 31, 2018 7:35 am

triceratop wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:42 am
Question: I have 26-week T-bills maturing 10/11/2018. There happens to be an auction for 26-week T-bills on 10/11/2018. As previously discussed Schwab does not allow rollover of Treasuries. However, since they know it is maturing at face value, will they allow me to place an auction order, since settlement occurs later?
A brokerage account with Margin (including an IRA with Margin), should allow you to reinvest the unsettled cash proceeds from the matured, but not yet settled, Tbill without incurring a margin loan.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by livesoft » Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 am

manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?
There is no Auction until June 4th. The announcement of the auction should be later today. An earlier link in this thread posted the auction schedule from the US Treasury. Don't forget how auctions work: They happen and then they are over with on the same day.
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by triceratop » Thu May 31, 2018 11:56 am

dodonnell wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:35 am
triceratop wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:42 am
Question: I have 26-week T-bills maturing 10/11/2018. There happens to be an auction for 26-week T-bills on 10/11/2018. As previously discussed Schwab does not allow rollover of Treasuries. However, since they know it is maturing at face value, will they allow me to place an auction order, since settlement occurs later?
A brokerage account with Margin (including an IRA with Margin), should allow you to reinvest the unsettled cash proceeds from the matured, but not yet settled, Tbill without incurring a margin loan.
A Schwab rep confirmed that while there is not support for the automatic rollover, one can participate in treasury auctions to execute a manual rollover. That is, one matches the settlement date of the auction with the due date of the treasury and Schwab will roll it over.

This should be useful information for Bogleheads who want to roll T-bills at Schwab as they can at other brokerages.
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manedark
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by manedark » Thu May 31, 2018 12:55 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 am
manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?
Don't forget how auctions work: They happen and then they are over with on the same day.
Thats what I was not clear about. So we can place an order on the auction day itself, not before, is that right?

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triceratop
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by triceratop » Thu May 31, 2018 1:01 pm

manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:55 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 am
manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?
Don't forget how auctions work: They happen and then they are over with on the same day.
Thats what I was not clear about. So we can place an order on the auction day itself, not before, is that right?
It depends on your brokerage. Mine (Schwab) allows one to place an order after the auction is announced on the announcement date. Here is a useful recent discussion: viewtopic.php?t=246210
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by livesoft » Thu May 31, 2018 2:55 pm

manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:55 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 am
manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?
Don't forget how auctions work: They happen and then they are over with on the same day.
Thats what I was not clear about. So we can place an order on the auction day itself, not before, is that right?
Do you see now the "Buy" link?
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manedark
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by manedark » Thu May 31, 2018 4:27 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 2:55 pm
manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:55 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 am
manedark wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:33 am
I see no Buy Link for 26 week T bill, does it mean allnbills were already sold?
Don't forget how auctions work: They happen and then they are over with on the same day.
Thats what I was not clear about. So we can place an order on the auction day itself, not before, is that right?
Do you see now the "Buy" link?
Yes, just now - its there :-)
One more question, I am seeing that indicative yield of 2.07% for the 6 month T-bill - that means for 10,000 invested I will get roughly (10000 * 2.07/100) / 2 = $103.5 - when the 6 months T-bill matures, is that correct assumption?

livesoft
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by livesoft » Thu May 31, 2018 4:29 pm

^I don't think it works that way. I think in 6 months at maturity you will get $10,000. But this June, you will probably pay close to $9,797 $9897 for it. One doesn't know how much they will pay until the deed is done.

Thanks Grt2BOutdoors, my math skills are bad today. Probably because I'm working on a proposal to the DOE.
Last edited by livesoft on Thu May 31, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:29 pm
^I don't think it works that way. I think in 6 months at maturity you will get $10,000. But this June, you will probably pay close to $9,797 for it. One doesn't know how much they will pay until the deed is done.
A 6 month Tbill issued in June at current indicative YTM will pay close to $9,897 for it. The rate quoted is on an annual basis, but the security itself is of a 26 week duration.
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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by MnD » Thu May 31, 2018 6:20 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:14 am
Some people mentioned and liked the ability of Fidelity to automatically roll the treasuries over to the next issue when they mature. I'm still trying to find out if Vanguard or Schwab supports this as well (I currently don't have an active account at Fidelity).
Schwab does not offer auto-roll on-line or through their fixed income specialists. I just checked today.
It is in the suggestion box for enhanced client services so we can hope for that in the future.

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Re: Buying Treasury Bills: Treasury Direct or Vanguard / Fidelity

Post by aj76er » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:05 am

I was wanting to buy a 13-week T-bill at the next auction on 6/11. If I wanted to buy at Fidelity, would I do this at:

Investment Products->Fixed Income->Individual Bonds->Find Bonds->New Issues->Treasury

Currently it shows "0" are available, So I'm just wondering if bonds show up here just before the day of auction? It would be helpful to have some screenshots from Fidelity like those from Vanguard posted above.
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