ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

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Broken Man 1999
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ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:01 pm

My van has had the ABS light come on twice, and wife is taking to repair shop.

I was wondering if the OBD II scanners identify the actual fault that is bringing in the light?

The vehicle is a 2008 Ford E150 van.

According to the info I have read, there are a myriad of things that could cause the ABS light to come on.

I would like to have an idea of what the problem could be, no matter what I find, the next trip is to the repair shop.

Thanks!

Broken Man 1999
Last edited by Broken Man 1999 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bloom2708
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:30 pm

I have two different OBD scanners. They do provide some value. The shop will charge $50 to $75 to scan for the code and then you have the fix. The code can be looked up. There may be multiple codes triggered from a single event.

ABS could be a faulty wheel sensor. That seems to be common. But, it could be several different things.

I would check eBay and Amazon. Make sure you get one compatible with your vehicle. $30 or under should get one.

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBDII-Scanner-C ... l1&vxp=mtr
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bob60014
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by bob60014 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:32 pm

They will get you in the general direction. As example, a code for the EGR valve failure could be for the valve, electrical connector or something else in the circuit. Too often people will just replace the valve and experience trouble shortly after, not properly diagnosing or fixing the actual cause.

Most major auto parts stores will do a scan free along with a print out.

keaton
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by keaton » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:48 pm

Most generic code readers will not pull ABS fault codes. I would get onto a Ford forum and see what most of the guys use on there or check YouTube. A couple extra bucks can get you a scanner that will pull ABS and SRS codes.

Katietsu
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners..... have

Post by Katietsu » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:49 pm

I only know that in the case of my last car that had an ABS light on, the cheapest scanner that would give details was several hundred dollars.

wrongfunds
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:05 am

the prices have dropped and you might be able to get a reader giving you ABS code on domestic car for single hundred or so. Most likely the cause would be one of the wheel sensor acting up. But since here are four of them, you really need the reader to know which one to go after.

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flossy21
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by flossy21 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:15 am

If you go to AutoZone or similar places they often have OBD-II scanners that you can borrow and use right there in the parking lot. Sometimes the parts counter person will even help you do the scan. You'll get a code or several codes and then have to look those up in a book to see what the specific fault is. Like the other poster said though it often requires a process to diagnose the true root cause.

keaton
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by keaton » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:21 am

flossy21 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:15 am
If you go to AutoZone or similar places they often have OBD-II scanners that you can borrow and use right there in the parking lot. Sometimes the parts counter person will even help you do the scan. You'll get a code or several codes and then have to look those up in a book to see what the specific fault is. Like the other poster said though it often requires a process to diagnose the true root cause.
Most of the auto parts store scanners will not pull ABS or SRS fault codes.

barnaclebob
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:17 am

I'm sure you read that the most likely culprit for the ABS light coming on is a low brake fluid level. Did your check that and top it off if needed before going to the shop? Its normal for brake fluid level to drop as pads wear and the pistons are more full of fluid so its not necessarily due to a leak. My ABS light will come on when the fluid level is about 3/4 of the way down to the low mark.

I'm pretty sure OBD II scanners don't pull brake codes, just primarily sensors on the engine and emissions systems.

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TnGuy
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by TnGuy » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:45 am

I've been using the BlueDriver OBDII Scan Tool for about 1 1/2 years now and am very satisfied with its capabilities, over all value - and in the software updates. I've used it on my truck, my wife's car - and on other vehicles that I have worked on. And, it does read Enhanced Codes (e.g. ABS, Airbag, Transmission, etc.).

You can learn more about it at the manufacturer's website: Lemur Monitors.


David
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:51 pm

Thanks for the feedback!

I tried a couple of auto parts stores, but they only read "Check engine light". :(

After investigation, I found that all OBD II readers do not pull ABS or SRS codes.
TnGuy wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:45 am
I've been using the BlueDriver OBDII Scan Tool for about 1 1/2 years now and am very satisfied with its capabilities, over all value - and in the software updates. I've used it on my truck, my wife's car - and on other vehicles that I have worked on. And, it does read Enhanced Codes (e.g. ABS, Airbag, Transmission, etc.).

You can learn more about it at the manufacturer's website: Lemur Monitors.


David
Thanks, David! I came to the same device via some websites that discuss the different tools available.

My understanding is you have access to the actual definitions of the various codes, as well, with this device. :?:

Broken Man 1999
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miamivice
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm

Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:09 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.
Yeah, I need it! Disabling (or not fixing) a safety system seems short-sighted to me. :shock:

I'm kinda cautious of things like brakes, tires, I don't compromise. Besides my wife and I aboard, our grandchildren are riding with us frequently.

We shall just have to disagree about the importance of ABS.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

miamivice
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:14 pm

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:09 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.
Yeah, I need it! Disabling (or not fixing) a safety system seems short-sighted to me. :shock:

I'm kinda cautious of things like brakes, tires, I don't compromise. Besides my wife and I aboard, our grandchildren are riding with us frequently.

We shall just have to disagree about the importance of ABS.

Broken Man 1999
Virtually the only reason you need is for icy conditions. ABS allows you to apply max brakes on icy roads and allow you to continue to steer. ABS actually increases stopping distance.

On non-icy roads you don't need ABS as it's extraordinarily difficult to apply enough braking pressure to cause your brakes to lock your tires, so you don't need it.

All I'm saying is that your need of ABS depends on your climate. If you look at my username, you'll understand why I am not a huge proponent of ABS. If I lived in a northern climate I'd have a different opinion.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:25 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:09 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.
Yeah, I need it! Disabling (or not fixing) a safety system seems short-sighted to me. :shock:

I'm kinda cautious of things like brakes, tires, I don't compromise. Besides my wife and I aboard, our grandchildren are riding with us frequently.

We shall just have to disagree about the importance of ABS.

Broken Man 1999
Virtually the only reason you need is for icy conditions. ABS allows you to apply max brakes on icy roads and allow you to continue to steer. ABS actually increases stopping distance.

On non-icy roads you don't need ABS as it's extraordinarily difficult to apply enough braking pressure to cause your brakes to lock your tires, so you don't need it.

All I'm saying is that your need of ABS depends on your climate. If you look at my username, you'll understand why I am not a huge proponent of ABS. If I lived in a northern climate I'd have a different opinion.
Well, I'm in Florida as well, and the roads are wet and slippery frequently. In fact, this summer hasn't seen many (if any) days we didn't get a downpour.

My understanding of ABS is that the system is beneficial on wet, slick roads.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

miamivice
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:30 pm

To answer your original question, ABS is a pretty simple system. Not a whole lot to go wrong.

It could be a bad wheel speed sensor. There are four of them, one on each tire. They're generally cheap (maybe $35 or $50) and often not hard to replace. On some vehicles you have to replace the whole wheel bearing. On others they can be replaced individually. From my experience, most often wheel speed sensor issues cause check engine lights rather than ABS lights. On my Phoenix vehicle it cost $1000 to replace the wheel speed sensor (no idea why that much) at the garage.

It could also be the ABS computer's brain has fried. That happened to me on the Phoenix vehicle. Cost was several thousand dollars to replace. I could have gone down to a junkyard and replaced it on my own, but I took a different path.

Your best bet is to pay the $100 or so diagnostic fee to the garage to diagnose the problem. They'll tell you what is wrong and then give you an estimate on the cost to repair. I think that's value added in your case.

barnaclebob
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:09 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.
Yeah, I need it! Disabling (or not fixing) a safety system seems short-sighted to me. :shock:

I'm kinda cautious of things like brakes, tires, I don't compromise. Besides my wife and I aboard, our grandchildren are riding with us frequently.

We shall just have to disagree about the importance of ABS.

Broken Man 1999
Virtually the only reason you need is for icy conditions. ABS allows you to apply max brakes on icy roads and allow you to continue to steer. ABS actually increases stopping distance.

On non-icy roads you don't need ABS as it's extraordinarily difficult to apply enough braking pressure to cause your brakes to lock your tires, so you don't need it.

All I'm saying is that your need of ABS depends on your climate. If you look at my username, you'll understand why I am not a huge proponent of ABS. If I lived in a northern climate I'd have a different opinion.
Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.

miamivice
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:48 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:09 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Do you need ABS?

I lived in Phoenix at one point and had the ABS system fail on me. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, and quickly realized that one does not need ABS in a desert climate. Eventually the red ABS light burned out, and the problem went away.
Yeah, I need it! Disabling (or not fixing) a safety system seems short-sighted to me. :shock:

I'm kinda cautious of things like brakes, tires, I don't compromise. Besides my wife and I aboard, our grandchildren are riding with us frequently.

We shall just have to disagree about the importance of ABS.

Broken Man 1999
Virtually the only reason you need is for icy conditions. ABS allows you to apply max brakes on icy roads and allow you to continue to steer. ABS actually increases stopping distance.

On non-icy roads you don't need ABS as it's extraordinarily difficult to apply enough braking pressure to cause your brakes to lock your tires, so you don't need it.

All I'm saying is that your need of ABS depends on your climate. If you look at my username, you'll understand why I am not a huge proponent of ABS. If I lived in a northern climate I'd have a different opinion.
Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
Honestly, it's not "terrible advice". It just might be different advice that you would give out. We all have our opinions. I have mine and you have yours.

ABS is not designed to reduce stopping distance. It is designed to improve steering when you are in a situation your brakes may lock up. Your car will drive and stop just fine without ABS, as they did for decades.

I am a proponent of ABS and think it is a good thing overall. I also believe it is an add-on feature. However, I am not sure I would put $2000 into a 2008 vehicle to repair ABS.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:07 pm

I wouldn't hesitate a bit for a $2000 repair bill. My van is outfitted with a lift system for my power wheelchair, and would cost $45,000-$50000 to replace. It only has 72,000 miles, should be good for another several years.

Though it is a 2008, it was actually brand new when I bought it in 2009. I bought it from a company that builds transit vans for nursing homes, assisted living centers, etc. My previous van was a converted conversion van, not nearly as stout as my current one.

I pimped it out by adding running boards, wheel well trim, window and hood air deflectors, weather tech floor mats, window tinting, a back seat for three including seat belts (can't have grandchildren flying all over the cabin), a nice Kenwood head unit with HD radio, GPS, DVD/CD player, backup camera, along with a 1000watt sub/amp along with sound deadening in the doors, and graphics on the sides; the graphics reduced the institutional look of the van.

I ended up spending the same amount on this van as I did on outfitting my 1999 van, but this van is much sturdier.

Honestly, I wanted a Mercedes Benz Sprinter van, but too pricey.

Broken Man 1999
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miamivice
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:11 pm

I'd fix it if you don't mind spending a grand or two fixing it.

For reference, the Phoenix car that I owned also had a problem with the air conditioning (it failed one day). I drove around Phoenix in 115 degree heat with no air conditioning, to save cost. Soon after I sold the car and replaced it, with one that has both working a/c and working ABS.

Don't get me wrong, ABS is a good thing.

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TnGuy
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by TnGuy » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:36 am

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:51 pm
My understanding is you have access to the actual definitions of the various codes, as well, with this device. :?:
You are correct. The software gives the user a fairly good amount of information to go on. As an example, I had an issue with my truck last year, pulled the code, printed out the pertinent diagnostic information and gave it to the repair shop. It saved them time - and me money - in narrowing down the possible issues.

Plus, you can always google the code that it pulls and gather up even more information.


David
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barnaclebob
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:38 am

miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:48 pm
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm


Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
Honestly, it's not "terrible advice". It just might be different advice that you would give out. We all have our opinions. I have mine and you have yours.

ABS is not designed to reduce stopping distance. It is designed to improve steering when you are in a situation your brakes may lock up. Your car will drive and stop just fine without ABS, as they did for decades.
Except your opinion is factually wrong. You are being an anti-vaxxer for cars. See this test report from the NTSHA. ABS reduced stopping distance in all tested scenarios except for loose gravel. Furthermor, braking systems have only gotten better in the last 20 years but drivers likely haven't.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/Mult ... nalRpt.pdf

alfaspider
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by alfaspider » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:57 am

barnaclebob wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:38 am
miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:48 pm
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm


Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
Honestly, it's not "terrible advice". It just might be different advice that you would give out. We all have our opinions. I have mine and you have yours.

ABS is not designed to reduce stopping distance. It is designed to improve steering when you are in a situation your brakes may lock up. Your car will drive and stop just fine without ABS, as they did for decades.
Except your opinion is factually wrong. You are being an anti-vaxxer for cars. See this test report from the NTSHA. ABS reduced stopping distance in all tested scenarios except for loose gravel.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/Mult ... nalRpt.pdf
Some of that may depend on the programming of the ABS system. They have likely gotten better over the years. There are racing ABS systems that behave more aggressively than those used in street cars.

The fastest way to stop is threshold braking- where you brake at just below the ABS activation threshold.

http://www.drivingfast.net/threshold-braking/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... r-driving/

Few drivers are able to consistently threshold brake. Even most track instructors will have beginners and intermediates just use ABS in most scenarios.

barnaclebob
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:18 am

alfaspider wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:57 am
Some of that may depend on the programming of the ABS system. They have likely gotten better over the years. There are racing ABS systems that behave more aggressively than those used in street cars.

The fastest way to stop is threshold braking- where you brake at just below the ABS activation threshold.

http://www.drivingfast.net/threshold-braking/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... r-driving/

Few drivers are able to consistently threshold brake. Even most track instructors will have beginners and intermediates just use ABS in most scenarios.
Its important to emphasize the "few" in your statement because most people think they can be part of the few after reading some articles on the internet. In order to beat ABS systems a driver would need to frequently practice emergency maneuvers and max braking on a variety of road conditions, not just a dry race track. I would bet that zero people on this forum have that training.

Now there are studies that look at the real world impacts of ABS and they have found it to decrease multi vehicle and pedestrian accidents but increase single vehicle accidents. The reasons for this aren't clear but I'm curious if stability control may have corrected the single vehicle crash increase issue. In any case, single vehicle accidents are within a drivers control to avoid in most cases, where multi vehicle may not be.

alfaspider
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by alfaspider » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:25 am

barnaclebob wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:18 am
alfaspider wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:57 am
Some of that may depend on the programming of the ABS system. They have likely gotten better over the years. There are racing ABS systems that behave more aggressively than those used in street cars.

The fastest way to stop is threshold braking- where you brake at just below the ABS activation threshold.

http://www.drivingfast.net/threshold-braking/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... r-driving/

Few drivers are able to consistently threshold brake. Even most track instructors will have beginners and intermediates just use ABS in most scenarios.
Its important to emphasize the "few" in your statement because most people think they can be part of the few after reading some articles on the internet. In order to beat ABS systems a driver would need to frequently practice emergency maneuvers and max braking on a variety of road conditions, not just a dry race track. I would bet that zero people on this forum have that training.

Now there are studies that look at the real world impacts of ABS and they have found it to decrease multi vehicle and pedestrian accidents but increase single vehicle accidents. The reasons for this aren't clear but I'm curious if stability control may have corrected the single vehicle crash increase issue. In any case, single vehicle accidents are within a drivers control to avoid in most cases, where multi vehicle may not be.
Absolutely true. Pretty much the only people who could reliably out-perform ABS are pro rally drivers who frequently practice in a wide variety of road and weather conditions. I have a decent amount of track experience, and I would still just rely on ABS in a street panic situation (except on my track car which does not have ABS).

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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by hicabob » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:35 am

Stability control uses the ABS system so if ABS doesn't work I would expect stability control would be not working also. I don't think anyone disputes that stability control is useful in otherwise terrible situations.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:30 pm

Friday wife took van to a local Ford dealership, and after their "diagnosis" the tech stated we needed a ABS ECU (electronic control unit) and an ABS HCU (hydraulic control unit), all for the mere price of $2543.

I talked to the tech and asked wasn't it unusual that both units had failed, and he said as a matter of course they always recommended both be changed both at the same time. That info kinda pegged my BS meter. He gave the problem code that mentioned the ECU, but nothing else.

As it turned out, my BIL, who is the lead mechanic at a Mercedes Benz dealership in South Florida was stopping by for the weekend, he was returning home from a MB school in Jacksonville.

So Saturday morning he looked at the units, and noticed covers were dusty, no fingerprints evident, so he knew immediately there had been zero contact to check for corrosion, loose wire, dampness in the unit, etc. He told me that since the ABS light only came on when wife was driving, it pointed to a possible issue with a wheel sensor more than the Ford tech's diagnosis. He hadn't heard of replacing both units before.

Had the ECU/HCU units had a problem, they most likely wouldn't have passed the ABS test that is ran when you first crank a vehicle. He had stated also sometimes a high-draw fuse will get a burnt spot and would pass a voltage test but wouldn't draw the right current. He told me about a tech at MB who had that issue and the problem turned out to be a fuse. So now he always checks for that. My ABS fuse did have some marks on it, so he cleaned it up, and plugged it in.

We then ran several errands during the day, and wife ran several errands today, and the ABS light has not returned. It is possible still that I have a bad/going bad wheel sensor, on even a bad circuit board where the leads come into the control unit.

So, new plan of attack: ABS light doesn't come on again, great. If it does I will get a OBD II scan tool and take it to another place for repairs.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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jabberwockOG
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:49 pm

In case your ABS light comes on again there are places find-able on the internet that specialize in repairing car ECUs including ABS ECUs. You remove the ECU and send to them. They repair and send back usually in 10 days or less for less than $200. You may also be able to buy a used ECU on ebay inexpensively. The ABS master cylinder itself can also be purchased used on ebay - finding one might take some patience.

I would not drive around in a car with inoperable ABS. It can really be a life saver in a panic situation - instead of locking up brakes and losing steering control an ABS maximizes braking while still allowing wheels to rotate enough to retain steering control. And most stability control systems are linked with ABS so if ABS system is out so is SCS.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:30 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:49 pm
In case your ABS light comes on again there are places find-able on the internet that specialize in repairing car ECUs including ABS ECUs. You remove the ECU and send to them. They repair and send back usually in 10 days or less for less than $200. You may also be able to buy a used ECU on ebay inexpensively. The ABS master cylinder itself can also be purchased used on ebay - finding one might take some patience.

I would not drive around in a car with inoperable ABS. It can really be a life saver in a panic situation - instead of locking up brakes and losing steering control an ABS maximizes braking while still allowing wheels to rotate enough to retain steering control. And most stability control systems are linked with ABS so if ABS system is out so is SCS.
Yeah, I found lots of places to buy used/remanufactured units, but I can't have van unavailable for that length of time. As well, seeing that I intend keeping my van for several more years, I would want new, more reliable parts.

The cost isn't an a great issue, assuming it is for a genuine issue that needs addressing. Time will tell. Wife was getting ABS light every time she was driving, with no ABS light when the diagnostics were being ran when you first start the engine. Movement was required before lamp came on.

And now, after 10-15 start and stop driving intervals over two days, no light.....

Got my fingers crossed!

$2543 would buy a lot of good Bourbon, lots of great steaks, and a plenty of good cigars.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

wrongfunds
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:33 pm

I can not help but think that your BIL's dealership would probably use the *exact* same tactic on a a typical MB paying customer as was used by the Ford dealer on you. The only difference would be the size of the number given to MB owner. It would be more like $6573 instead of $2743 :-) Unless proven otherwise, expect the auto repair industry to be populated by less than ethical higher ups who sets the tone of the overall shop.

Assuming you paid for the diagnosis time, you should have got actual codes printed on the repair bill from the Ford shop.

By the way, you can drive the vehicle with ABS ECU out for repair if it comes to that. It will NOT be any worse than driving it with ABS light on.

H-Town
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by H-Town » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:12 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm
Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
I'm with miamivice on this. It's not a terrible advice. Not everything is resolved by shelling out money. I drove a vehicle without ABS before. ABS is nice to have, really. It's not a must to operate a vehicle. But I recommend ABS for snowy/slicky road. We don't need the skills of a F1 driver to safely drive a car without ABS. People had driven 100 years without ABS. According to your report, ABS helps increase stopping distance by 27.2% overall. It boils down to the person who is behind the wheel. If you put yourself in the position that you have to utilize the 27.2% advantage of stopping distance to avoid a crash, you should consider defensive driving class. Common sense costs nothing. Not using common sense might cost you everything.

OP- Glad your issue is straightened out without having to spend $2k+. Make sure you check the brake pad and tire pressure often.

barnaclebob
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by barnaclebob » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:30 pm

thangngo wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:12 pm
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm
Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
I'm with miamivice on this. It's not a terrible advice. Not everything is resolved by shelling out money. I drove a vehicle without ABS before. ABS is nice to have, really. It's not a must to operate a vehicle. But I recommend ABS for snowy/slicky road. We don't need the skills of a F1 driver to safely drive a car without ABS. People had driven 100 years without ABS. According to your report, ABS helps increase stopping distance by 27.2% overall. It boils down to the person who is behind the wheel. If you put yourself in the position that you have to utilize the 27.2% advantage of stopping distance to avoid a crash, you should consider defensive driving class. Common sense costs nothing. Not using common sense might cost you everything.

OP- Glad your issue is straightened out without having to spend $2k+. Make sure you check the brake pad and tire pressure often.
People drove without seat belts too before "just fine" until they were killed by flying through the windshield. Dale Earnheart drove just fine without a HANS device right up until he didn't. Sometimes you don't get to chose when to brake or how much distance is between you or a car that pulls out. ABS has become a standard piece of safety equipment for a reason.

Broken Man 1999
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:10 am

barnaclebob wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:30 pm
thangngo wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:12 pm
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm
Please stop giving this terrible advice. ABS will stop you sooner on dry clean pavement and most other conditions unless you have the skills of a F1 driver. Most people mash the brakes which will cause skidding. ABS reduces skidding and stops you sooner because tires have more friction when they aren't skidding.
I'm with miamivice on this. It's not a terrible advice. Not everything is resolved by shelling out money. I drove a vehicle without ABS before. ABS is nice to have, really. It's not a must to operate a vehicle. But I recommend ABS for snowy/slicky road. We don't need the skills of a F1 driver to safely drive a car without ABS. People had driven 100 years without ABS. According to your report, ABS helps increase stopping distance by 27.2% overall. It boils down to the person who is behind the wheel. If you put yourself in the position that you have to utilize the 27.2% advantage of stopping distance to avoid a crash, you should consider defensive driving class. Common sense costs nothing. Not using common sense might cost you everything.

OP- Glad your issue is straightened out without having to spend $2k+. Make sure you check the brake pad and tire pressure often.
People drove without seat belts too before "just fine" until they were killed by flying through the windshield. Dale Earnheart drove just fine without a HANS device right up until he didn't. Sometimes you don't get to chose when to brake or how much distance is between you or a car that pulls out. ABS has become a standard piece of safety equipment for a reason.
Exactly! If the issue comes back, it will be fixed, PERIOD!
wrongfunds wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:33 pm
I can not help but think that your BIL's dealership would probably use the *exact* same tactic on a a typical MB paying customer as was used by the Ford dealer on you. The only difference would be the size of the number given to MB owner. It would be more like $6573 instead of $2743 :-) Unless proven otherwise, expect the auto repair industry to be populated by less than ethical higher ups who sets the tone of the overall shop.

Assuming you paid for the diagnosis time, you should have got actual codes printed on the repair bill from the Ford shop.

By the way, you can drive the vehicle with ABS ECU out for repair if it comes to that. It will NOT be any worse than driving it with ABS light on.
There are dishonest people in every walk of life. Luckily I don't need to trust a MB dealership, or even my local Ford dealership. I trust my BIL.

Given the going hourly rate for MB mechanics and the eye-popping costs of parts, you are going to get a lofty bill even if the mechanic is squeaky clean.

It is entirely possible we will see the ABS light again, if so another entity will be troubleshooting.

Thanks for all the helpful advice!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

wrongfunds
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:42 am

Did BIL not have his every day code reader with him? His point about ABS light coming on immediately if there were problems in the computer makes lot of sense.

From reading your description about the events, I am not sure if you have the actual data in your hand. I am presuming the Ford diagnostics was done "free" and the repair cost was the only item provided to you. There is really no getting away from the fact that without having the proper diagnostic tool (which can be purchased for as little as under $100) you and your BIL has been just guessing so far even if those were done intelligently and most likely correct. We have already came to conclusion that your Ford dealer is less than scrupulous like most other others out there in the auto repair industry.

Broken Man 1999
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: ABS light, and OBD II scanners.....UPDATE

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:57 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:42 am
Did BIL not have his every day code reader with him? His point about ABS light coming on immediately if there were problems in the computer makes lot of sense.

Nope. In fact he doesn't have one. Mercedes Benz mechanics don't need no stinking OBS scanner!. :D Their MB diagnostic computers are a wee bit better than OBD scanners.

From reading your description about the events, I am not sure if you have the actual data in your hand.

Yes, and it did point to the area of concern. But after pulling the saved code, it was obvious he didn't do anything else to isolate further.

I am presuming the Ford diagnostics was done "free" and the repair cost was the only item provided to you.

Nope. $100 as credit applied to repair bill if fixed there. Pretty normal.

There is really no getting away from the fact that without having the proper diagnostic tool (which can be purchased for as little as under $100) you and your BIL has been just guessing so far even if those were done intelligently and most likely correct. We have already came to conclusion that your Ford dealer is less than scrupulous like most other others out there in the auto repair industry.

Agreed. That is why if the issue returns, I will have a scanner. So far as crooked mechanics, not sure that's always a proper conclusion. What upsets people more I think is the price of their repairs. I don't like the high priced repairs either, but honestly in my industry high margins led to great pay. So, who am I to complain?
A few more start up and drives today with no light. Yippee!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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