How to Move to Linux

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grok87
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by grok87 »

roamingzebra wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 12:28 pm
grok87 wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:21 am ok i'll bite. what are desktops/laptops that have good linux support?
thanks
grok
The typical answer is Dell and Lenovo.

I've heard HP is developing a Linux variant.

I personally have installed Linux on Toshiba, Acer, and lots of Dells.

Only on the Acer did I have to modify the boot screen by adding a particular parameter, I believe due to the particular CPU/GPU I had. But when I switched to a different distro on that computer, that extra step was no longer needed.

What I've found is that not only are there built-in changes added to various distros over time to increase compatibility, but when you install a distro, it may now give you selectable options right there in the boot menu so you don't have to wonder about adding a parameter. Just go with the "graphics-safe" version or some such thing.

The real answer to your question, however, is that there are one or two websites that list computers by make and model and indicates their degree of Linux compatibilty. I don't have the link offhand but a search or even a chatbot (!) will get you there. So if you already have a computer or are considering buying one, you can plug in the make and model and get an answer.

But if you don't want to do that, avoiding anything with NVIDIA GPUs is a great place to start. And Intel processors are generally recommended as compatible.
thanks
RIP Mr. Bogle.
grok87
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by grok87 »

Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 1:37 pm
grok87 wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:21 am
ok i'll bite. what are desktops/laptops that have good linux support?
thanks
grok
Ubuntu publishes a list of supported Dell machines.

Here are the Dell laptops you currently can purchase with Linux pre-installed:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-la ... u-linux-os

And of course Raspberry Pi's support Linux by default.

The main compatibility issue you are likely to run into is there not being a driver for Linux for some video, network, sound, or whatever hardware. Traditionally, Linux users would prefer a tower case to be able to put supported peripheral hardware cards in. Most machines individual users buy today (laptops or mini desktop boxes) are preconfigured for peripherals, and I/O chips are likely on the motherboard rather than on an auxiliary hardware card that is owner-installed.

If you want a machine with hardware you can configure, perhaps buy a used server that was liquidated from a failed startup company for around $200-300. If it already is a Linux server, all the better.
thanks
RIP Mr. Bogle.
grok87
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by grok87 »

prioritarian wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 7:16 pm
grok87 wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:21 am
ok i'll bite. what are desktops/laptops that have good linux support?
thanks
grok
Ubuntu certified:
https://ubuntu.com/certified
RedHat certified:
https://catalog.redhat.com/search?searc ... Laptop&p=1

That being said many manufacturers have linux laptops/desktops:

Lenovo, in particular, has impressive support for linux:
https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/prod ... al-systems
*click on the laptop drop down list*

Dell also has good support for linux with many of their popular laptops and workstations offering linux support:
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-la ... igurations

It's often very easy to purchase an older lenovo or dell system that was linux certified and these are almost guaranteed to work well with newer linux releases.
thanks
RIP Mr. Bogle.
cupcakeswsprinkles
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:38 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by cupcakeswsprinkles »

enad wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:11 am
I run Linux Mint and use Oracle's Virtualbox software to create Windows virtual machine. You can enable/disable internet access to Windows especially if you are running an older non-supported release of Windows. I run Win 7 & Win 11 in a virtual machine. On Win 11 I have Turbotax Deluxe installed (that's the only reason I need a supported Windows OS).
Thank for sharing.

What do you specifically need Turbotax Deluxe for? I find FreeTaxUSA to be good enough for my needs (web). Curious if FreeTaxUSA does not cover something.
cjcerny
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by cjcerny »

I think Zorin is likely the easiest Linux flavor to transition to if you are a Windows user now. Easy to create a live boot USB thumb drive of any flavor of Linux to use to see if your desktop or laptop has full functionality before you perform a full installation.
enad
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

cupcakeswsprinkles wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:07 am What do you specifically need Turbotax Deluxe for? I find FreeTaxUSA to be good enough for my needs (web). Curious if FreeTaxUSA does not cover something.
I have never looked at FreeTaxUSA so I can't say wither it is lacking in any area.

I distrust any company with my data and I file my returns by mail with the cost of a first class postage stamp. My returns are generally under $50 from the Feds or my state and I usually get them within 3 weeks. I use the Deluxe version to estimate my next year taxes.
FunnelCakeBob
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by FunnelCakeBob »

I'm test driving Linux Mint (LM) on a 2014 HP laptop that was previously left unusable by a Windows blue-screen infinite boot loop. I'm pleasantly surprised how peppy this old laptop feels even with its 4th gen intel CPU. I initially re-installed Window 8.1 this week after swapping out the original HDD with an SSD and tried out Mint on a live usb thumb drive. I've now wiped off Windows and gone exclusively with LM on this laptop.

Initial impressions (I'm not a computer techie, just a regular joe.):

1. Downloading the OS was easy. But the instructions on confirming integrity and authenticity of the download left something to be desired. I probably should have downloaded directly from torrent rather than one of the mirror sites.
2. installation was a cinch. I opted not to encrypt the disk since this is meant to be experimental for now while I check under the hood and tweak the OS. I'd likely commit to LM on this laptop eventually after the test period. Then, I'll re-install in order to encrypt.
3. The Cinnamon Desktop environment looks and behaves a lot like Windows so far. I had checked out Fedora 10 back in 2009 on a Dell desktop and didn't feel it was right to even consider switching or adopting to a new OS. The user interface of LM certainly feels a lot more mature.
4. The default scroll speed on the touchpad is outrageously fast and the default Mouse and Touchpad setting doesn't offer a way to slow it down. This is where getting to know Linux under the hood and using command lines is a must. I'm able to search online for some solutions.
5. LM forum has enthusiastic users just as this forum. You can search for many suggestions and solutions there.
6. The Linux file system is different, with its own logic that goes with using the command lines. Most users can probably skip learning this part and stick with the file directory via GUI.
7. Like many posters, I have some Windows-only software such as the old-trusted MS Money, Garmin Express, and Logitech mouse and keyboard apps.
8. I'll be installing Windows on virtual machine in LM using qemu or VirtualBox, in order to test out the software in #7. Any hints and suggestions from seasoned Linux users would be appreciated.
9. This laptop is running a lot cooler and the fan doesn't come on as often as when it was on Windows. I'll be pushing the CPU and graphics harder with virtualization to see if this remains the case.
10. If these notes are causing you to sweat, don't do Linux. Stick to what makes you happy and productive.

2024 was the year of learning how to change bike tires. 2025 is the year of learning how even more things work, to keep the mind sharp. Linux looks to be one of those things.
prioritarian
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by prioritarian »

frugaltigris wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:09 am Why my pc is a dual boot and not just linux? Because nothing beats MS Office.
I run Microsoft Office 2016 (and 2010) on linux using Codeweavers Crossover Linux (a wine wrapper).

https://www.codeweavers.com/
prioritarian
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by prioritarian »

FunnelCakeBob wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 8:59 pm I'm test driving Linux Mint (LM) on a 2014 HP laptop that was previously left unusable by a Windows blue-screen infinite boot loop. I'm pleasantly surprised how peppy this old laptop feels even with its 4th gen intel CPU. I initially re-installed Window 8.1 this week after swapping out the original HDD with an SSD and tried out Mint on a live usb thumb drive. I've now wiped off Windows and gone exclusively with LM on this laptop.

Initial impressions (I'm not a computer techie, just a regular joe.):

1. Downloading the OS was easy. But the instructions on confirming integrity and authenticity of the download left something to be desired. I probably should have downloaded directly from torrent rather than one of the mirror sites.
2. installation was a cinch. I opted not to encrypt the disk since this is meant to be experimental for now while I check under the hood and tweak the OS. I'd likely commit to LM on this laptop eventually after the test period. Then, I'll re-install in order to encrypt.
3. The Cinnamon Desktop environment looks and behaves a lot like Windows so far. I had checked out Fedora 10 back in 2009 on a Dell desktop and didn't feel it was right to even consider switching or adopting to a new OS. The user interface of LM certainly feels a lot more mature.
4. The default scroll speed on the touchpad is outrageously fast and the default Mouse and Touchpad setting doesn't offer a way to slow it down. This is where getting to know Linux under the hood and using command lines is a must. I'm able to search online for some solutions.
5. LM forum has enthusiastic users just as this forum. You can search for many suggestions and solutions there.
6. The Linux file system is different, with its own logic that goes with using the command lines. Most users can probably skip learning this part and stick with the file directory via GUI.
7. Like many posters, I have some Windows-only software such as the old-trusted MS Money, Garmin Express, and Logitech mouse and keyboard apps.
8. I'll be installing Windows on virtual machine in LM using qemu or VirtualBox, in order to test out the software in #7. Any hints and suggestions from seasoned Linux users would be appreciated.
9. This laptop is running a lot cooler and the fan doesn't come on as often as when it was on Windows. I'll be pushing the CPU and graphics harder with virtualization to see if this remains the case.
10. If these notes are causing you to sweat, don't do Linux. Stick to what makes you happy and productive.

2024 was the year of learning how to change bike tires. 2025 is the year of learning how even more things work, to keep the mind sharp. Linux looks to be one of those things.
For Logitech mice and keyboards I use solaar:

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/logitech-un ... nux-solaar
hoofaman
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by hoofaman »

Last time I used a Linux Desktop was ~15 or so years ago, switched to Mac. Still have a Windows PC for gaming

Regarding the posts about dual boot, unless things have improved with Windows I would be careful taking that path, in my experience Windows updates tended to mess up the bootloader (I used GRUB). No real need to run Windows anyway unless your a gamer these days, just skip the MS Office suite and use Google Docs/Sheets instead, perfectly fine for home use and much easier to share/use across multiple devices
enad
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

Something else to consider for some people who are concerned with dual booting Windows or Linux. If you have a desktop, you can get a SATA drive rack and a SATA tray then you can install a tray for Linux and boot/run and when you want Windows, power down the machine, swap out the Linux tray for Windows and boot. If you need to share you can use a USB stick for files you want to share between the two operating systems. On some laptops this is still possible if the SATA compartment is easily accessible. This if much harder if you have an NVMe SSD that is not easily accessible.
alexbogle
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by alexbogle »

Just do it and deal with issues as they come up. Choose a popular distro to begin with like Ubuntu or Pop OS.
"Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It’s cheaper!” -- Jack Bogle
prioritarian
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by prioritarian »

hoofaman wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 1:23 pm Last time I used a Linux Desktop was ~15 or so years ago, switched to Mac. Still have a Windows PC for gaming

Regarding the posts about dual boot, unless things have improved with Windows I would be careful taking that path, in my experience Windows updates tended to mess up the bootloader (I used GRUB). No real need to run Windows anyway unless your a gamer these days,

Steam, Valve proton, and lutris/crossover make gaming on linux fairly robust these days.
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-pla ... s-on-linux

Grub2 is a vast improvement over grub when it comes to dual booting.
just skip the MS Office suite and use Google Docs/Sheets instead, perfectly fine for home use and much easier to share/use across multiple devices
If you work with others that use microsoft office, google apps have game-stopping compatibility issues. This is why I run microsoft office natively in linux via crossover/wine.
tibbitts
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

I hope that in reading this thread nobody feels like they're necessarily missing out on something by not moving to Linux, because in the vast majority of cases they aren't. Access to the resources most of us needs is very commoditized today and all the various platforms work well for most purposes. If your current platform does what you want, there's no compelling reason to experiment with another one unless you'd simply enjoy the process of experimenting. Obviously if you have specific requirements - software that only runs on one platform or another - that's a good reason to use that platform.
mrb09
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by mrb09 »

If you're looking to test drive a Linux shell, you can try Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), that will create a Linux VM. I run this on my desktop system for house projects (Calibre, Plex, etc) and then push stuff from it to an old headless Mac Mini I have that runs Ubuntu for our house server.
tarheel91
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tarheel91 »

I wouldn't touch Linux Desktop. Stick to your Mac if you can afford. Or stick to Windows.

It's been a happening for nearly three decades.

Linux servers are great. And I have been dealing with them for the better part of my working life (both Unix and Linux). But, I wouldn't use Linux as my daily driver.
Target2019
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:30 pm

Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by Target2019 »

HighLonesome wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:35 am I dont prefer MS control over my OS. Thinking of moving to a Linux based OS. What will I lose, if anything. I do not do any gaming.

What steps do I take? What version of Linux is recommended?
I know where you're coming from. I can't help you with the steps to move, but many are doing it.

What I would lose is a certain comfort level gained from working with the OS since the 90's. I have a lot of human capital invested in various programs. But it just may be my time to opt out of the MS universe.
Kinda like an 80% passive index believer and 20% free spirit.
roamingzebra
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by roamingzebra »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:35 am I hope that in reading this thread nobody feels like they're necessarily missing out on something by not moving to Linux, because in the vast majority of cases they aren't. Access to the resources most of us needs is very commoditized today and all the various platforms work well for most purposes.
I would venture to say that most people move to Linux for freedom, frugality and privacy.

Freedom to have their system the way they want without having a lot of stuff forced onto them.

Freedom from being forced to have an account with an "overlord" who adds intrusive features and sucks up data about them.

The frugality of turning computers already on hand into useful machines, bypassing the forced obsolescence of Windows, Apple, Chrome, etc.

I don't know anyone who turned to Linux simply because they thought it would work or look better, or have unique software. They are often surprised by the results, however. :)
tibbitts
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

roamingzebra wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:37 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:35 am I hope that in reading this thread nobody feels like they're necessarily missing out on something by not moving to Linux, because in the vast majority of cases they aren't. Access to the resources most of us needs is very commoditized today and all the various platforms work well for most purposes.
I would venture to say that most people move to Linux for freedom, frugality and privacy.

Freedom to have their system the way they want without having a lot of stuff forced onto them.

Freedom from being forced to have an account with an "overlord" who adds intrusive features and sucks up data about them.

The frugality of turning computers already on hand into useful machines, bypassing the forced obsolescence of Windows, Apple, Chrome, etc.

I don't know anyone who turned to Linux simply because they thought it would work or look better, or have unique software. They are often surprised by the results, however. :)
What I'm saying is that 98% of people don't "move to Linux" at all, and don't suffer at all in any significant way because of that. Someone reading this thread might feel like they're missing out and doing the equivalent of paying 2% AUM on their $4M portfolio if they stick to using MacOS or Windows, and that's just not the case.
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warner25
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by warner25 »

roamingzebra wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:37 pm I would venture to say that...
Nice post. I started writing something this morning along those lines (defining what anyone might be "missing out on") in response to tibbitts (whose summaries are fair), but I got pulled away. What you wrote is probably more clear and concise than what I was trying to write.

I've used desktop Linux distros on-and-off since 2005.

The "free as in freedom" parts have become more important to me in recent years. Windows in particular seems to have gone off-the-rails with trying to make users sign into Microsoft accounts, pushing all of the other products in the Microsoft ecosystem, and bizarrely pushing a bunch of non-Microsoft products too through various forms of within-the-OS advertising (I've never owned any Apple products, but I expect that macOS does just as much of the first two things, at least). Even using a "big" Linux distro (with corporate sponsorship) like Fedora, on the other hand, feels minimalist by default and I (as a nobody) can have personal communications with Matthew Miller (Fedora Project Leader) about the direction of things.

The "free as in beer" part mattered more when I was younger, but I still enjoyed saving ~$150 by not including a Windows license with my current laptop.

And every time I've come back to desktop Linux after a break, I've indeed been surprised by the results as progress is made with hardware support and applications become more cross-platform (due to the shift towards web applications).
Second Round
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by Second Round »

warner25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:37 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:37 pm I would venture to say that...
Nice post. I started writing something this morning along those lines (defining what anyone might be "missing out on") in response to tibbitts (whose summaries are fair), but I got pulled away. What you wrote is probably more clear and concise than what I was trying to write.
I want to second this. roamingzebra really captured it splendidly. I wish I could put it so simply.

I beg to differ slightly with tibbitts, though. Instead of "... don't suffer at all in any significant way because of that." I would state "... don't perceive themselves to suffer at all in any significant way because of that." But we all know that there is a cost to commerical OSs - in money (direct purchases/subscriptions, plus indirect via goods and services sold through them that wouldn't have occurred otherwise), in users' attention and time (spent looking at ads), in privacy (which people appear to value very little, but I suspect this is because the extent and severity of loss is intentionally hidden from them).

Yes, many people will openly acknowledge and accept "there's no privacy anymore anyway." But some of those same people complain about being short of money and time.
prioritarian
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by prioritarian »

roamingzebra wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:37 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:35 am I hope that in reading this thread nobody feels like they're necessarily missing out on something by not moving to Linux, because in the vast majority of cases they aren't. Access to the resources most of us needs is very commoditized today and all the various platforms work well for most purposes.
I would venture to say that most people move to Linux for freedom, frugality and privacy.

Freedom to have their system the way they want without having a lot of stuff forced onto them.

Freedom from being forced to have an account with an "overlord" who adds intrusive features and sucks up data about them.

The frugality of turning computers already on hand into useful machines, bypassing the forced obsolescence of Windows, Apple, Chrome, etc.

I don't know anyone who turned to Linux simply because they thought it would work or look better, or have unique software. They are often surprised by the results, however. :)
I moved away from windows to linux for three main reasons: 1) better security against brute-force attacks, malware, and viruses, 2) total control of the system -- no forced updates and free and permanent upgrade paths, 3) stability -- i've had many linux desktops running for >3 years without reboot (via kplice and then livepatch). I never considered mac os/osx because I consider it a "toy" posix environment, partially closed source, and very annoying to customize/modify.
Tabulator
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by Tabulator »

gavinsiu wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:46 am Fedora is probably a good distro for newer hardware but I feel that there are extra steps to get access to media codec.
Does enabling third-party repos address this problem?
gavinsiu
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by gavinsiu »

Tabulator wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:21 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:46 am Fedora is probably a good distro for newer hardware but I feel that there are extra steps to get access to media codec.
Does enabling third-party repos address this problem?
Yes, I haven't used Fedora in a while but you have to enable the third party repos, same as Ubuntu but the process required some extra steps.
simas
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by simas »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:31 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:37 pm

I would venture to say that most people move to Linux for freedom, frugality and privacy.

Freedom to have their system the way they want without having a lot of stuff forced onto them.

Freedom from being forced to have an account with an "overlord" who adds intrusive features and sucks up data about them.

The frugality of turning computers already on hand into useful machines, bypassing the forced obsolescence of Windows, Apple, Chrome, etc.

I don't know anyone who turned to Linux simply because they thought it would work or look better, or have unique software. They are often surprised by the results, however. :)
What I'm saying is that 98% of people don't "move to Linux" at all, and don't suffer at all in any significant way because of that. Someone reading this thread might feel like they're missing out and doing the equivalent of paying 2% AUM on their $4M portfolio if they stick to using MacOS or Windows, and that's just not the case.
or they just dont know it? if you are ok with having every action you take (connected or disconnected from the internet) tracked, mined, and exploited, sure - go for it. Linux type OS are great alternatives for those who care.
tibbitts
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

Second Round wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 6:33 pm
warner25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:37 pm

Nice post. I started writing something this morning along those lines (defining what anyone might be "missing out on") in response to tibbitts (whose summaries are fair), but I got pulled away. What you wrote is probably more clear and concise than what I was trying to write.
I want to second this. roamingzebra really captured it splendidly. I wish I could put it so simply.

I beg to differ slightly with tibbitts, though. Instead of "... don't suffer at all in any significant way because of that." I would state "... don't perceive themselves to suffer at all in any significant way because of that." But we all know that there is a cost to commerical OSs - in money (direct purchases/subscriptions, plus indirect via goods and services sold through them that wouldn't have occurred otherwise), in users' attention and time (spent looking at ads), in privacy (which people appear to value very little, but I suspect this is because the extent and severity of loss is intentionally hidden from them).

Yes, many people will openly acknowledge and accept "there's no privacy anymore anyway." But some of those same people complain about being short of money and time.
It's possible that we're merely not perceiving ourselves to be suffering... or maybe we just aren't. It's like saying we're suffering if we go to a restaurant for a meal instead of making it at home from food we grow ourselves. In some sense, maybe in theory, but it's a conscious choice. You could be correct about privacy loss, but I expect not in that I believe most of us simply wouldn't care even if we knew the full extent of privacy loss. And are you sure most privacy loss is due to the OS and not to all the applications whose behavior we don't choose to restrict, regardless of the OS they're running under? Similarly, you could be correct about privacy loss costing us money, but considering that many of us have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to our own stupid decisions that were in no way computer-related (including those from before personal computers were a "thing"), do you really think that we lose a "significant" amount as a result of OS-generated suggestions? I'm saying "we" in terms of people who frequent the forum. This is somewhat the same as the argument that credit card use encourages spending; Bogleheads pretty clearly believe that they're making money on their reward cards, even though that may not be the case for the population in general.
enad
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

prioritarian wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 6:47 pm I moved away from windows to Linux for three main reasons:

1) better security against brute-force attacks, malware, and viruses,
2) total control of the system -- no forced updates and free and permanent upgrade paths,
3) stability -- I've had many Linux desktops running for >3 years without reboot
I agree. With each passing year, some Linux distributions just keep getting better and better. Today one can download something Linux Mint and make a bootable USB flash drive and see what it is like in a non-destructive manner. The one important thing to remember is that Linux is not like Windows or iOS or vice versa. Some things will take time to learn.

I found it easier to remove the existing drive in the computer and replace it with a blank drive. If your computer had a hard drive, replacing is with a solid state drive would make it more responsive. If you wanted to access your old hard drive you could purchase a USB enclosure for you old drive and get data off of it. If you want to move back to your old operating system, it's just a swapping of the two drives.

If you're the kind of person that brings Firefox up and that is all you need, Linux can be good for you as you generally don't have to worry about updates that can cause a Blue Screen Of Death. If you use the Long Term Support version of the distribution you can get up to 5 years of updates.

If you opt to install it, in Linux Mint there is a checkbox to download multi-media codecs and other drivers for your hardware.

Another thing to know is that Linux will work well on older computers up to 15 years old that don't meet the system requirements for many versions of Windows. If you're running Windows 10 and get a notice that your computer will not support Windows 11, it's a good candidate for Linux Mint. This works well in households with multiple computers meaning you can try Linux Mint on older PC's without updating the main PC's.

For those that are more technical savvy and find out they want to run Microsoft Office or use the desktop version of Turbotax, they can create a virtual machine of their Windows and run Microsoft Office & Turbotax, even disable internet access to the virtual machine and have the ability to share data between the host (Linux) and the guest (Windows) virtual machine.
jocdoc
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by jocdoc »

Enad,
I just did what you did, took out my old laptop SSD win drive and put a new ssd drive and installed Linux Mint. Everything worked including the wireless printer and MoneyDance program. However I put back the windows drive as I will need it until after tax season. I put the linux SSD drive into an enclosure but was unable to boot it up from Legacy bios. I was hoping to continue use the linux distro this way. I could not boot into the windows drive if I put the linux drive back into the laptop and the win drive into the SSD enclosure from the legacy bios. My live distro of linux mint on flash drive boots up nicely for the legacy bios.(created with Rufus) However, when I do this I have to set up the wifi, printer, Moneydance, display settings, etc everytime.

I don't want to change the boot section of my Win drive as last time I put grub on my windows boot drive for a win linux dual boot windows would not update properly. Does anyone have a potential solution for me?
enad
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

jocdoc wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:44 am Enad,
I just did what you did, took out my old laptop SSD win drive and put a new ssd drive and installed Linux Mint. Everything worked including the wireless printer and MoneyDance program. However I put back the windows drive as I will need it until after tax season. I put the linux SSD drive into an enclosure but was unable to boot it up from Legacy bios. I was hoping to continue use the linux distro this way. I could not boot into the windows drive if I put the linux drive back into the laptop and the win drive into the SSD enclosure from the legacy bios. My live distro of linux mint on flash drive boots up nicely for the legacy bios.(created with Rufus) However, when I do this I have to set up the wifi, printer, Moneydance, display settings, etc everytime.

I don't want to change the boot section of my Win drive as last time I put grub on my windows boot drive for a win linux dual boot windows would not update properly. Does anyone have a potential solution for me?
When doing a dual boot you'll need the Windows drive in the computer when you install Linux, which I believe you did not do.

Recent Microsoft updates, particularly security updates released in August 2024, have been known to break dual booting systems, primarily affecting users who dual boot Windows with Linux, by inadvertently applying Secure Boot settings that can prevent the Linux bootloader from booting properly; this issue arises due to a security patch aimed at a vulnerability in the Linux GRUB bootloader, causing boot failures on some dual-boot systems. Microsoft has acknowledged the issue and is working on a fix, but users may need to manually adjust their Secure Boot settings to resolve the problem.

If you only use Windows for TurboTax or Office you could just boot Linux and create a Windows virtual machine using the COA you used for Windows. This is what I do. I use excel in-lieu of Quicken or MoneyDance but if the latter works for you then you're all set once you create a Windows virtual machine. Regarding the vulnerability in the Linux GRUB bootloader, an attacker would have to have physical access to the computer. I use Oracle's Virtual Box software. I have tested it with 7.0.18. Newer versions may work, but I generally don't use them unless I have to. You'd use the Ubuntu 24 binaries for Linux Mint 22 and you'll need the Extension Pack. You'll also need an ISO for Windows and the COA. I created a local account with 23H2 ISO. I can't say why Microsoft attempted to fix a GRUB bootloader issue but since they broke it I don't think they are too anxious to fix it as no fix in sight after 6 months.

Tom's Hardware has a guide: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/ins ... ft-account
Second Round
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by Second Round »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm And are you sure most privacy loss is due to the OS and not to all the applications whose behavior we don't choose to restrict, regardless of the OS they're running under?
I'm not 100% sure of anything, but I have pretty high confidence that under desktop Linux I'm experiencing far less privacy loss and monetization than under other OS, due to the OS. Now, if by "applications" you mean things like "apps" from a smartphone software store, then I agree those are, as a group, highly geared toward monetizing their users. [Perhaps even some that are paid apps. IMO there's no reason to suppose that the nominal payment covers 100% of the profit goals of the app developer. So there could be a blended strategy with those.]

If by applications you instead you mean running software programs on a desktop computer OS, I don't think there's much of that at all under Linux, with one big exception: I'm sure I'm fingerprintable via my browser. I've checked it, in fact. Probably no more than 2 like me in terms of the hardware and software profile I present to a website. And the browser may do some fingerprinting itself too - but I try to limit that through settings. So I would fail a privacy purity test, yes. But I don't think my Linux OS has built a profile on me. I don't have to have a Linux Mint account to setup and run their OS, nor AFAIK is there any telemetry back to Clem.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm do you really think that we lose a "significant" amount as a result of OS-generated suggestions? I'm saying "we" in terms of people who frequent the forum.
In a way you're asking, "Does advertising work?" One would think so, or the industry should collapse. I am aware of the notion that the industry exaggerates their own effectiveness. It probably does. But to the point of it not being worth advertising? Seems like few businesses feel its THAT ineffective.

In terms of money and / or time? In aggregate, just among Bogleheads? Maybe not so much among Bogleheads, but that could be my in-group bias showing. In aggregate across computer users, I do.

Also, "significant" is relative to me ... I have a low (but non-zero) tolerance for advertising.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm This is somewhat the same as the argument that credit card use encourages spending; Bogleheads pretty clearly believe that they're making money on their reward cards, even though that may not be the case for the population in general.
I am seeing a lot of $ back on our rewards cards - vastly more than the bank interest paid on the account from which the credit card bill is paid. However, we can't possibly be making more than the cost levied to support the rewards programs, can we? If we make 2% back on average, aren't retailer's prices elevated 3-4% to cover it? Not sure how a consumer "makes money" on such an arrangement, unless you factor other things into it like the convenience of not having to carry around a lot of cash (and replenish it), of quick check-out process, of centralized billing and recordkeeping, etc.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

Second Round wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm And are you sure most privacy loss is due to the OS and not to all the applications whose behavior we don't choose to restrict, regardless of the OS they're running under?
I'm not 100% sure of anything, but I have pretty high confidence that under desktop Linux I'm experiencing far less privacy loss and monetization than under other OS, due to the OS. Now, if by "applications" you mean things like "apps" from a smartphone software store, then I agree those are, as a group, highly geared toward monetizing their users. [Perhaps even some that are paid apps. IMO there's no reason to suppose that the nominal payment covers 100% of the profit goals of the app developer. So there could be a blended strategy with those.]

If by applications you instead you mean running software programs on a desktop computer OS, I don't think there's much of that at all under Linux, with one big exception: I'm sure I'm fingerprintable via my browser. I've checked it, in fact. Probably no more than 2 like me in terms of the hardware and software profile I present to a website. And the browser may do some fingerprinting itself too - but I try to limit that through settings. So I would fail a privacy purity test, yes. But I don't think my Linux OS has built a profile on me. I don't have to have a Linux Mint account to setup and run their OS, nor AFAIK is there any telemetry back to Clem.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm do you really think that we lose a "significant" amount as a result of OS-generated suggestions? I'm saying "we" in terms of people who frequent the forum.
In a way you're asking, "Does advertising work?" One would think so, or the industry should collapse. I am aware of the notion that the industry exaggerates their own effectiveness. It probably does. But to the point of it not being worth advertising? Seems like few businesses feel its THAT ineffective.

In terms of money and / or time? In aggregate, just among Bogleheads? Maybe not so much among Bogleheads, but that could be my in-group bias showing. In aggregate across computer users, I do.

Also, "significant" is relative to me ... I have a low (but non-zero) tolerance for advertising.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm This is somewhat the same as the argument that credit card use encourages spending; Bogleheads pretty clearly believe that they're making money on their reward cards, even though that may not be the case for the population in general.
I am seeing a lot of $ back on our rewards cards - vastly more than the bank interest paid on the account from which the credit card bill is paid. However, we can't possibly be making more than the cost levied to support the rewards programs, can we? If we make 2% back on average, aren't retailer's prices elevated 3-4% to cover it? Not sure how a consumer "makes money" on such an arrangement, unless you factor other things into it like the convenience of not having to carry around a lot of cash (and replenish it), of quick check-out process, of centralized billing and recordkeeping, etc.
Regarding the browser vs. OS issue: I was calling the browser (or Photoshop or whatever your run on a computer) an "app", a term I resisted for decades, but it sounds stupid in the modern era to call it a "program." In any case, probably 95% of all activity most of us do on a personal computer is through a browser, and what the sites we use track vs. what the browser tracks or the OS tracks or some network tracks... I just can't get excited about that. I think it's a feature, not a bug, when I'm shopping online and a message asks if I forgot to order something that I routinely order, because if I forget, I'll just have to order it separately next week. Do I buy something I don't want or wouldn't otherwise in the near future just because there's an ad for it? I'm sure some people do, but I don't know how it's possible to demonstrate that for a particular person, or to prove whether that's a benefit or detriment. If I was convinced to buy something I didn't even know existed before, but turns out to benefit me, I'm not convinced that's something I want to avoid.

About credit cards, that was exactly my point: if you take an average of consumers everywhere, consumers pay in one way or another for using credit cards. But realistically sellers don't reduce prices for cash, so if you only buy what you would with cash and pay off your balance, you "make money", at least relative to the other consumers who don't behave that way. Of course now somebody will say they negotiated 5% off having their lawn mowed by paying cash, whatever. But day-to-day you aren't going to walk into Walmart and track down a manager to ask if you can get $1.00 off your groceries for paying cash. Very few businesses accept credit cards for big-ticket items anyway so there just isn't much meat on the bone there.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by patrick »

Second Round wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:55 pm I'm not 100% sure of anything, but I have pretty high confidence that under desktop Linux I'm experiencing far less privacy loss and monetization than under other OS, due to the OS. Now, if by "applications" you mean things like "apps" from a smartphone software store, then I agree those are, as a group, highly geared toward monetizing their users. [Perhaps even some that are paid apps. IMO there's no reason to suppose that the nominal payment covers 100% of the profit goals of the app developer. So there could be a blended strategy with those.]

If by applications you instead you mean running software programs on a desktop computer OS, I don't think there's much of that at all under Linux, with one big exception: I'm sure I'm fingerprintable via my browser. I've checked it, in fact. Probably no more than 2 like me in terms of the hardware and software profile I present to a website. And the browser may do some fingerprinting itself too - but I try to limit that through settings. So I would fail a privacy purity test, yes. But I don't think my Linux OS has built a profile on me. I don't have to have a Linux Mint account to setup and run their OS, nor AFAIK is there any telemetry back to Clem.
Users get far more ads in the browser than in Windows itself, unless a strong ad blocker is used. Privacy concerns are rather subjective but in the aggregate (not just fingerprinting) web privacy issues seem much greater as well.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:05 pm This is somewhat the same as the argument that credit card use encourages spending; Bogleheads pretty clearly believe that they're making money on their reward cards, even though that may not be the case for the population in general.
I am seeing a lot of $ back on our rewards cards - vastly more than the bank interest paid on the account from which the credit card bill is paid. However, we can't possibly be making more than the cost levied to support the rewards programs, can we? If we make 2% back on average, aren't retailer's prices elevated 3-4% to cover it? Not sure how a consumer "makes money" on such an arrangement, unless you factor other things into it like the convenience of not having to carry around a lot of cash (and replenish it), of quick check-out process, of centralized billing and recordkeeping, etc.
It is possible to make more money on a rewards card than the merchant pays in fees by using a 5% category card only on purchases in that category. The bank hopes there are enough profitable users to make up for such users.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by roamingzebra »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:52 pm In any case, probably 95% of all activity most of us do on a personal computer is through a browser, and what the sites we use track vs. what the browser tracks or the OS tracks or some network tracks... I just can't get excited about that.
Don't forget that we're not just talking about ads and single websites, we're talking about multiple companies buying/sharing/selling data, developing granular profiles on individuals (both anonymized and de-anonymized) based on both online and in-store behaviors and using said profiles for targeted pricing. Depending on the contents of your profile, you can be offered higher prices than average, or lower, and this includes higher or lower insurance premiums.

Of course, some people have more to worry about from profiling, but this is just limiting it to consumerism.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

roamingzebra wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:52 pm In any case, probably 95% of all activity most of us do on a personal computer is through a browser, and what the sites we use track vs. what the browser tracks or the OS tracks or some network tracks... I just can't get excited about that.
Don't forget that we're not just talking about ads and single websites, we're talking about multiple companies buying/sharing/selling data, developing granular profiles on individuals (both anonymized and de-anonymized) based on both online and in-store behaviors and using said profiles for targeted pricing. Depending on the contents of your profile, you can be offered higher prices than average, or lower, and this includes higher or lower insurance premiums.

Of course, some people have more to worry about from profiling, but this is just limiting it to consumerism.
What percentage of this online and in-store profiling will you eliminate/prevent by doing the same routine activities on one operating system vs. another? For simplicity let's say the browser and network and all apps you use are the same.

What are some examples of "more to worry about"?
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

jocdoc wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:44 am Enad,
I just did what you did, took out my old laptop SSD win drive and put a new SSD drive and installed Linux Mint. Everything worked including the wireless printer and MoneyDance program. However I put back the windows drive as I will need it until after tax season. I put the Linux SSD drive into an enclosure but was unable to boot it up from Legacy bios. I was hoping to continue use the Linux distro this way. I could not boot into the windows drive if I put the Linux drive back into the laptop and the win drive into the SSD enclosure from the legacy bios. My live distro of Linux mint on flash drive boots up nicely for the legacy bios.(created with Rufus) However, when I do this I have to set up the WiFi, printer, Moneydance, display settings, etc every time.

I don't want to change the boot section of my Win drive as last time I put grub on my windows boot drive for a win linux dual boot windows would not update properly. Does anyone have a potential solution for me?
You'll need to go into your BIOS and change the boot order of your USB adapter to be first (just as you did to boot a Live (USB) session. You may also need to turn off Secure Boot if it's enabled.

When you are ready to boot Windows you may need to change the boot order so that your Windows drive is first and turn Secure boot on.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by roamingzebra »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 8:12 am
roamingzebra wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:24 pm
Don't forget that we're not just talking about ads and single websites, we're talking about multiple companies buying/sharing/selling data, developing granular profiles on individuals (both anonymized and de-anonymized) based on both online and in-store behaviors and using said profiles for targeted pricing. Depending on the contents of your profile, you can be offered higher prices than average, or lower, and this includes higher or lower insurance premiums.

Of course, some people have more to worry about from profiling, but this is just limiting it to consumerism.
What percentage of this online and in-store profiling will you eliminate/prevent by doing the same routine activities on one operating system vs. another? For simplicity let's say the browser and network and all apps you use are the same.
That's not a bad question. The browser and apps are the primary vector of intrusion, as are mobile phones, but commercial desktop operating systems are getting more intrusive every day and we don't know who they share information with or what exactly they do with it.

But you can count on this: There is one thing that Corporations, Governments and Criminals have in common: They will collect and exploit any data they can because it is profitable or otherwise advantageous to do so. The fact that the world is interconnected by one big online network makes it child's play to interconnect data from various sources.
What are some examples of "more to worry about"?
There are people who need to hide their locations and/or activities for many legitimate reasons.

And there are people who simply don't want the inconvenience of being falsely accused of something because of a misinterpretation of collected data. One "popular" example of this is geofencing, where all the active mobile phones within a certain radius of a crime are given to law enforcement, which can result in a passing bicyclist, for example, being held for the crime.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by tibbitts »

roamingzebra wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 2:18 pm And there are people who simply don't want the inconvenience of being falsely accused of something because of a misinterpretation of collected data. One "popular" example of this is geofencing, where all the active mobile phones within a certain radius of a crime are given to law enforcement, which can result in a passing bicyclist, for example, being held for the crime.
Thank you for the example; that's certainly something I hadn't thought of.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by Ged »

samsoes wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:36 am If I recall correctly, there are no Quicken or Turbo Tax versions which will work on Linux, so there's that.
You could use online Turbo Tax on Linux.

I used Linux professionally for a decade or so. I think it is great for server applications. I run a Linux music server at home.

I would not use it for something like Turbo Tax. That is like trying to make a pig fly.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

samsoes wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:36 am If I recall correctly, there are no Quicken or Turbo Tax versions which will work on Linux, so there's that.
One can download and install something like Oracle's Virtualbox software and create a Windows 10 or Windows 11 virtual machine, and then run Quicken or Turbo Tax within the virtual machine. They can keep their personal windows data in the shared (\\VBoxSvr) (Z:) folder which can be mounted at /shared on Linux and backed up within Linux. They can even install Microsoft Office in the virtual machine if they are used to running vs. learning how to run so-called compatible office suites available on Linux. One can have bi-directional drag/drop from the Linux (host) to the Windows (guest).
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by samsoes »

enad wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:19 pm
samsoes wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:36 am If I recall correctly, there are no Quicken or Turbo Tax versions which will work on Linux, so there's that.
One can download and install something like Oracle's Virtualbox software and create a Windows 10 or Windows 11 virtual machine, and then run Quicken or Turbo Tax within the virtual machine. They can keep their personal windows data in the shared (\\VBoxSvr) (Z:) folder which can be mounted at /shared on Linux and backed up within Linux. They can even install Microsoft Office in the virtual machine if they are used to running vs. learning how to run so-called compatible office suites available on Linux. One can have bi-directional drag/drop from the Linux (host) to the Windows (guest).
Wow, that's interesting. Is a Windows license required for the Virtualbox Windows VM?
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by enad »

samsoes wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:00 pm
enad wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:19 pm
One can download and install something like Oracle's Virtualbox software and create a Windows 10 or Windows 11 virtual machine, and then run Quicken or Turbo Tax within the virtual machine. They can keep their personal windows data in the shared (\\VBoxSvr) (Z:) folder which can be mounted at /shared on Linux and backed up within Linux. They can even install Microsoft Office in the virtual machine if they are used to running vs. learning how to run so-called compatible office suites available on Linux. One can have bi-directional drag/drop from the Linux (host) to the Windows (guest).
Wow, that's interesting. Is a Windows license required for the Virtualbox Windows VM?
Yes, one for each windows virtual machine.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed a post and reply discussing a way to bypass the Microsoft Terms of Service. A separate Microsoft OS license is required for each VM instance.
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Re: How to Move to Linux

Post by notinuse »

LadyGeek wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:16 pm A separate Microsoft OS license is required for each VM instance.
And that is one of the reasons I don't use MS Windows.
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