Capital One - "virtual (credit) cards"

[rjbraun]

Capital One has reminded me for some time about "virtual cards" I may create using my Capital One Spark Business Visa card.

It actually sounded like a helpful feature / benefit, and I finally went ahead and created a virtual card to order a subscription to a publication. A virtual card seemed the perfect application, as the publication has a "teaser" monthly subscription rate for the first year, after which it will rise to more than I am prepared to pay (can cancel at anytime).

So, I figured I would use a virtual card and set an 'auto--lock' date of about 11 months from now to minimize the chances of inadvertently overlooking the higher rate that I will presumably be billed for the second year.

This seems like a good application for a virtual card, or am I missing something?

Of course, when I went to use the virtual card for an online subscription there was a payment issue with the publication. They're closed today, but I plan to follow up tomorrow.

In the meantime, I confirmed with Capital One that my virtual card was in order. The phone rep didn't seem particularly knowledgeable and couldn't really answer what I consider basic questions (she gave conflicting answers about how "auto-lock" works, for example.)

So, as I try to sort things out I figured I would reach out to fellow Bogleheads to try to learn of others' experiences and any insights forum members may have on the topic.

Based on a quick internet search, I would think a virtual card could be useful and even beneficial, at least in some instances.

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-expe ... dit-cards/

[spankasmurf]

I'm a big fan of the virtual credit cards and have been using for many many years, now with Citi before with BOA/MBNA. The ability to just make the CC disappear and/or limit the amount has allowed me to comfortably use it for 'subscription" type accounts. However, I have had a few instances where the virtual CC will be denied - most notably with netflix. Netflix customer support said I would have to use another CC - I declined and canceled.

[jane1]

Likewise. I have been using Cap One virtual cards for a while. I also use them when traveling international and need to buy a domestic flight, train, etc online and would rather not give by card number.
On some websites from time to time, the virtual card is not accepted. In those cases I just use my regular number. At least I am reducing my risk.

[JBTX]

I’ve used cap on virtual cards for a few online subscriptions for news sites - such that it doesn’t charge past the subscription end. So far so good.

[rjbraun]

I'm a big fan of the virtual credit cards and have been using for many many years, now with Citi before with BOA/MBNA. The ability to just make the CC disappear and/or limit the amount has allowed me to comfortably use it for 'subscription" type accounts. However, I have had a few instances where the virtual CC will be denied - most notably with netflix. Netflix customer support said I would have to use another CC - I declined and canceled.

Interesting. I didn't realize Citi, BofA and others offered virtual cards. While I'm not surprised it's seems curious that they don't seem to be more popular.

How are you able to limit the amount? That would seem to be an attractive feature (valued by a cardholder) and one I would think that could be implemented easily enough, but as far as I can tell not offered by Capital One. I think I tried to ask this question to the Cap One rep, and she didn't seem able to help me.

[LLeaff]

I attempted a similar strategy with my Citi card.

In my case it was one payment for a yearly subscription to a local newspaper. I created a virtual number, made the payment and then 'cancelled' the virtual number. When renewal came around a year later, I was unwilling to pay the requested amount and I cancelled the subscription (annoyingly I had to call because there was no online option...). The local paper ignored my cancellation request, switched me to a monthly subscription, and charged the virtual number (now closed for 11+ months). The charge went through.

Long story short, I had to dispute the charge, Citi considered this fraud and therefore issued a new physical card with a new number. Pain in the a**

But wait, there's more. The virtual numbers are still linked my account, so the local newspaper charged my virtual account again, and it went through. I had to contact Citi again and dispute it, somehow the second time didn't require the issuance of a new physical card. It happened a third time, but Citi automatically disputed the third occurrence. It stopped after that

To this day, the local newspaper sends me a monthly email warning that my payment method is outdated and I might not get my subscription benefits if I don't update

[rjbraun]

I attempted a similar strategy with my Citi card.

In my case it was one payment for a yearly subscription to a local newspaper. I created a virtual number, made the payment and then 'cancelled' the virtual number. When renewal came around a year later, I was unwilling to pay the requested amount and I cancelled the subscription (annoyingly I had to call because there was no online option...). The local paper ignored my cancellation request, switched me to a monthly subscription, and charged the virtual number (now closed for 11+ months). The charge went through.

Long story short, I had to dispute the charge, Citi considered this fraud and therefore issued a new physical card with a new number. Pain in the a**

But wait, there's more. The virtual numbers are still linked my account, so the local newspaper charged my virtual account again, and it went through. I had to contact Citi again and dispute it, somehow the second time didn't require the issuance of a new physical card. It happened a third time, but Citi automatically disputed the third occurrence. It stopped after that

To this day, the local newspaper sends me a monthly email warning that my payment method is outdated and I might not get my subscription benefits if I don't update

Wow, what a nightmare

So, assuming you got confirmation that Citi canceled your virtual card it was all meaningless, as Citi proceeded to authorize a charge, anyway.

For Cap One, I think there's a way to create a virtual card for 'one-time use only', but if that doesn't really 'work' and they allow the virtual card to be used again, that will be a real nuisance. I find Capital One a pain to deal with. The only I reason I keep the card is the 2% cash back and no annual fee ("grandfathered" and no longer available, as far as I know).

[heartwood]

I'm a big fan of the virtual credit cards and have been using for many many years, now with Citi before with BOA/MBNA. The ability to just make the CC disappear and/or limit the amount has allowed me to comfortably use it for 'subscription" type accounts. However, I have had a few instances where the virtual CC will be denied - most notably with netflix. Netflix customer support said I would have to use another CC - I declined and canceled.

Interesting. I didn't realize Citi, BofA and others offered virtual cards. While I'm not surprised it's seems curious that they don't seem to be more popular.

How are you able to limit the amount? That would seem to be an attractive feature (valued by a cardholder) and one I would think that could be implemented easily enough, but as far as I can tell not offered by Capital One. I think I tried to ask this question to the Cap One rep, and she didn't seem able to help me.

I think there's confusion between "virtual" and "single use/capped" cards. My understanding is that a "virtual" card does not necessarily provide the type of caps mentioned here. My google wallet creates "virtual card numbers" from my regular cards. These get used at tap & pay stations rather than the original cc number. I'm unaware of any single use or capped version in g-wallet, created by g-wallet.

I looked at single use/capped amount cards a few times in recent years. None of the BOA or Citi cards I have provide that feature. You have to research the specific cards that provide that feature. I gave up!

Anyone aware of a list of cards that does provide a capped/single use virtual card? I found nothing on Dr of Credit.

[mkc]

Interesting. I didn't realize Citi, BofA and others offered virtual cards. While I'm not surprised it's seems curious that they don't seem to be more popular.

How are you able to limit the amount? That would seem to be an attractive feature (valued by a cardholder) and one I would think that could be implemented easily enough, but as far as I can tell not offered by Capital One. I think I tried to ask this question to the Cap One rep, and she didn't seem able to help me.

I think there's confusion between "virtual" and "single use/capped" cards. My understanding is that a "virtual" card does not necessarily provide the type of caps mentioned here. My google wallet creates "virtual card numbers" from my regular cards. These get used at tap & pay stations rather than the original cc number. I'm unaware of any single use or capped version in g-wallet, created by g-wallet.

I looked at single use/capped amount cards a few times in recent years. None of the BOA or Citi cards I have provide that feature. You have to research the specific cards that provide that feature. I gave up!

Anyone aware of a list of cards that does provide a capped/single use virtual card? I found nothing on Dr of Credit.

Up until a couple of years ago, Citi allowed you to set up both cap (max cumulative that could be charged to that virtual card) and expiration date, and it was tied to a specific merchant. Sadly, they did away with that.

CapOne ties the virtual card to a specific merchant, but I have not seen a means to cap charges. One can lock a CapOne virtual card, though, to prevent additional charges on it (I have not tested this).

[LookinAround]

I stumbled into a situation where a virtual CC was a problem. It wasn't an expensive lesson, but it's worth the heads-up.

Six of us were planning to see a movie the next day, though two weren't 100% certain they could make it. Went on my PC and bought six tickets using my virtual CC #, as I usually do for online transactions. If the two couldn't make it, I knew I could return their tickets at the box office before the movie began.

Four of us met at the theater. The two couldn't make it. No problem. I went to the box office, where they told me I needed the card to do the return. I only keep one banking app on my phone for extra security. I didn't remember the password, nor did I want to bother installing and then resetting my sign-in.

It cost me two movie tickets, but I learned a lesson.

[rich126]

I attempted a similar strategy with my Citi card.

In my case it was one payment for a yearly subscription to a local newspaper. I created a virtual number, made the payment and then 'cancelled' the virtual number. When renewal came around a year later, I was unwilling to pay the requested amount and I cancelled the subscription (annoyingly I had to call because there was no online option...). The local paper ignored my cancellation request, switched me to a monthly subscription, and charged the virtual number (now closed for 11+ months). The charge went through.

Long story short, I had to dispute the charge, Citi considered this fraud and therefore issued a new physical card with a new number. Pain in the a**

But wait, there's more. The virtual numbers are still linked my account, so the local newspaper charged my virtual account again, and it went through. I had to contact Citi again and dispute it, somehow the second time didn't require the issuance of a new physical card. It happened a third time, but Citi automatically disputed the third occurrence. It stopped after that

To this day, the local newspaper sends me a monthly email warning that my payment method is outdated and I might not get my subscription benefits if I don't update

That is why I detest any subscriptions, auto pay, etc. Too prone to trouble.
Currently I have a free subscription to AAA but now it will auto renew for $64 in a month. I went online to cancel and the cancel button pops up a phone number to call. Anything you get online should be able to cancel online. Reminds me of Morningstar a while back when the same thing happened and I had to call to cancel.

Definitely should be a law requiring anything you buy online to be able to cancel online. I've heard Uber One is another terrible one to try and cancel.

I've also thought about virtual cards but with your issue, it doesn't seem to provide much benefit, sadly.

[chaser]

I used to use virtual credit cards, but all my banks got rid of the feature over time. I never actually had a problem with unsolicited charges. I think the only problem I may have encountered was not accounting for test or reserve charges which may require a few more dollars over the exact final price I had computed. (I also learned that gift credit cards may have some kind of flag that prevents them from being used with services that want recurring subscription payments. I don't know if virtual credit cards have this flag.)

But I have since seen problems about solely relying on virtual (or expired cards) to protect you via denied charges. The problem is that vendors can continue to screw you by claiming you owe them money. Then they eventually sell off the unpaid debts to debt collectors, and you then get constantly harassed by debt collectors to pay off your debts. These people have no incentive to take your word that there shouldn't be debt, so they keep harassing you. You are also stuck with a debt collection record. It's a PITA to clean up this mess. The takeaway is that if the vendor is still trying to charge you, you need to be proactive at challenging it then and building a documented paper trail to defend yourself if this comes back years later. You can't be complacent/smug that the charge decline of your cleverly crafted virtual credit card with limit & expiration is sufficient to be the end of the story.

[LookinAround]

I attempted a similar strategy with my Citi card.

In my case it was one payment for a yearly subscription to a local newspaper. I created a virtual number, made the payment and then 'cancelled' the virtual number. When renewal came around a year later, I was unwilling to pay the requested amount and I cancelled the subscription (annoyingly I had to call because there was no online option...). The local paper ignored my cancellation request, switched me to a monthly subscription, and charged the virtual number (now closed for 11+ months). The charge went through.

Long story short, I had to dispute the charge, Citi considered this fraud and therefore issued a new physical card with a new number. Pain in the a**

But wait, there's more. The virtual numbers are still linked my account, so the local newspaper charged my virtual account again, and it went through. I had to contact Citi again and dispute it, somehow the second time didn't require the issuance of a new physical card. It happened a third time, but Citi automatically disputed the third occurrence. It stopped after that

To this day, the local newspaper sends me a monthly email warning that my payment method is outdated and I might not get my subscription benefits if I don't update

That is why I detest any subscriptions, auto pay, etc. Too prone to trouble.
Currently I have a free subscription to AAA but now it will auto renew for $64 in a month. I went online to cancel and the cancel button pops up a phone number to call. Anything you get online should be able to cancel online. Reminds me of Morningstar a while back when the same thing happened and I had to call to cancel.

Definitely should be a law requiring anything you buy online to be able to cancel online. I've heard Uber One is another terrible one to try and cancel.

I've also thought about virtual cards but with your issue, it doesn't seem to provide much benefit, sadly.

The new FTC "click to cancel" rule requiring just that should go into place sometime in the first half of next year barring any change by the incoming administration.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/16/nx-s1-51 ... he%20phone.

[enad]

Discover had an agreement with Citi to generate virtual cards but that no longer works, so when I need them I generate them from Citi as it lets me set the amount and the expiration date, plus once the card is used there is a fraud alert if it's used elsewhere. Just wished Discover had it again as I like their rewards more than Citi rewards

[dual]

FTC’s “Click To Cancel” Rule Set To Go Into Effect On January 14, 2025, With Compliance Required By May 14, 2025; Legal And Political Challenges Loom Over The Rule’s Future

https://commlawgroup.com/2024/ftcs-cli ... -14-2025/

[spankasmurf]

I'm a big fan of the virtual credit cards and have been using for many many years, now with Citi before with BOA/MBNA. The ability to just make the CC disappear and/or limit the amount has allowed me to comfortably use it for 'subscription" type accounts. However, I have had a few instances where the virtual CC will be denied - most notably with netflix. Netflix customer support said I would have to use another CC - I declined and canceled.

Interesting. I didn't realize Citi, BofA and others offered virtual cards. While I'm not surprised it's seems curious that they don't seem to be more popular.

How are you able to limit the amount? That would seem to be an attractive feature (valued by a cardholder) and one I would think that could be implemented easily enough, but as far as I can tell not offered by Capital One. I think I tried to ask this question to the Cap One rep, and she didn't seem able to help me.

I've read thru some of the other comments and I will describe how my "virtual" cards have worked. With both BOA and Citi, you create the virtual card with a max limit and expiration date. Once the vendor charged it, no other can. With BOA, it was a max total limit that could be charged. With Citi, it's the max limit that can be charged daily. BOA no longer offers the virtual cards. So with Citi, once the charge on the virtual card clears, I reset the daily max limit to $1 and the expiration date is usually only a few months out. I've heard about cases where even after de-activation, a "subscription" charge continues, which I agree is problematic - hasn't happened to me yet but... Anyway, maybe with a max limit of $1, it will not allow it to go thru. It's not perfect but I like to limit my exposure as much as I can and not give out my real CC number.

[exodusNH]

Capital One has reminded me for some time about "virtual cards" I may create using my Capital One Spark Business Visa card.

It actually sounded like a helpful feature / benefit, and I finally went ahead and created a virtual card to order a subscription to a publication. A virtual card seemed the perfect application, as the publication has a "teaser" monthly subscription rate for the first year, after which it will rise to more than I am prepared to pay (can cancel at anytime).

So, I figured I would use a virtual card and set an 'auto--lock' date of about 11 months from now to minimize the chances of inadvertently overlooking the higher rate that I will presumably be billed for the second year.

This seems like a good application for a virtual card, or am I missing something?

Of course, when I went to use the virtual card for an online subscription there was a payment issue with the publication. They're closed today, but I plan to follow up tomorrow.

In the meantime, I confirmed with Capital One that my virtual card was in order. The phone rep didn't seem particularly knowledgeable and couldn't really answer what I consider basic questions (she gave conflicting answers about how "auto-lock" works, for example.)

So, as I try to sort things out I figured I would reach out to fellow Bogleheads to try to learn of others' experiences and any insights forum members may have on the topic.

Based on a quick internet search, I would think a virtual card could be useful and even beneficial, at least in some instances.

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-expe ... dit-cards/

Merchants can subscribe to a BIN database, which gives information about a credit card based on the number. These databases contain information like credit, debit, status (e.g. American Express Platinum vs American Express Gold). Also included is whether the credit card number is a virtual one.

The merchant can choose not to accept the virtual credit card, knowing that they won't be able to charge it at the higher renewal rate.

Another possibility is that the number gets locked to the first merchant that charges it. If they charge a service fee or are splitting the payment, it's possible the second one gets denied.

I ran into that years ago when I tried to pay some city bill. The vendor charged something like a $1 fee. The merchant ID was different between the fee and city charge, causing the whole payment to fail.

[exodusNH]

I'm a big fan of the virtual credit cards and have been using for many many years, now with Citi before with BOA/MBNA. The ability to just make the CC disappear and/or limit the amount has allowed me to comfortably use it for 'subscription" type accounts. However, I have had a few instances where the virtual CC will be denied - most notably with netflix. Netflix customer support said I would have to use another CC - I declined and canceled.

Interesting. I didn't realize Citi, BofA and others offered virtual cards. While I'm not surprised it's seems curious that they don't seem to be more popular.

How are you able to limit the amount? That would seem to be an attractive feature (valued by a cardholder) and one I would think that could be implemented easily enough, but as far as I can tell not offered by Capital One. I think I tried to ask this question to the Cap One rep, and she didn't seem able to help me.

BoA discontinued the virtual cards function years ago.

The virtual card generating app was Flash based. I suspect when Apple effectively killed Flash, BoA decided it wasn't worth trying to recreate the functionality with an alternative technology. I'm sure most people didn't use it.

(Web development has changed SUBSTANTIALLY since Flash was killed off. Stuff that seems (and feels) trivial now was extraordinarily difficult to accomplish.)

[uaeebs86]

I used the BofA ones before they discontinued them.

Now I use Privacy.com for virtual cards when doing subscriptions. You can set a per month, per year, per transaction or total limit on each card. You can link to a debit card if you don't want to use a bank account.

[EricGold]

That is why I detest any subscriptions, auto pay, etc. Too prone to trouble.

Agreed, although they are getting harder to avoid. I've thought about using a VISA gift card for subscriptions but have yet to try it out.

[lereh]

I will not enter into a subscription with a company that does not have online cancellation, period.

I will not use any credit card, virtual or not, on any kind of sketchy retail site. I’m using only well known reputable vendors, and so I can do online cancellation, deal with disputes whatever.

While have virtual cards still in use, I’m not sure virtual cards really work anymore, as other posters have mentioned, charges still seem to charge through to the main number.

[Barky]

The problem with virtual cards is that, for recurring transactions, the payee gets a "token" from the bank which remains permanent even if the rest of the card info changes or the card expires. This means that subscriptions will go through no matter what, even if the card information changes. The token remains the same. The only way to get rid of the token is to call up the bank and talk with someone who knows what in the world one is. Or to close the account entirely.

https://stripe.com/resources/more/payme ... zation-101

"Token reusability: For recurring transactions, such as subscriptions or stored customer profiles, the same token can be used multiple times without collecting sensitive payment data again."