[Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

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HJ14
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[Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

[Split from Subject: Certified Financial Planner: Where can veteran get a full financial analysis? by Moderator Misenplace]
HI, I'm the one asking about post Military retirement CFP. My friend introduced me to Bogleheads...so here it goes!
My ASK IS: ARE WE USING OUR MONEY IN THE MOST ADVANTAGEOUS POSITIONS IF WE PLAN ON A FINAL RETIREMENT IN ABOUT 20 YEARS?

Me and my wife, no kids, two demanding lap dogs

Income:
Pension/Military benefits + new job + wife's seasonal work + rental property income

Costs:
Rent plus all your typical costs of living. One big vacation per year with shorter local travel. Mortgage on our rental property, no car payments or loans otherwise (My guess is our costs come out to about 20% of our total take home pay?)

Accounts:
-Roth IRA (we max out every year )
-Emergency Fund
-Municipal bond
-Money market (we built this up to have cash on hand to buy a house --still looking...)
-Keep about $10K on hand as Rental house account to pay for repairs/contingencies
-We both work for the Government, we each have a Thrift Saving Plan (I cannot contribute anymore, but my wife can). we both have L2050:

G Fund 11.10%
F Fund 7.15%
C Fund 42.33%
S Fund 10.81%
I Fund 28.61%

Investments:
Of our total invested
15% - Vanguard Total International Stock Index Admiral
40% - Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Admiral
45% - Vanguard Wellington Admiral

I appreciate any feedback you all may have.
THANKS!
CoAndy
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by CoAndy »

I think everything looks great, especially the part about your expenses equaling only 20% of your take home pay!
Last edited by CoAndy on Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
gunny
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by gunny »

Why are you renting? Unless you have a compelling reason not to, buy a house. Not only is it financially advantageous (tax break plus building up equity), but it's YOURS...if you want to paint a room or rip out a tree, you don't need to ask anyone's permission. And when it's paid off, bam, no more monthly payments.
tibbitts
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by tibbitts »

gunny wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:59 pm Why are you renting? Unless you have a compelling reason not to, buy a house. Not only is it financially advantageous (tax break plus building up equity), but it's YOURS...if you want to paint a room or rip out a tree, you don't need to ask anyone's permission. And when it's paid off, bam, no more monthly payments.
Home ownership is a lifestyle choice and isn't for everyone. It's not necessarily a positive or negative from a financial standpoint.
Tdubs
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by Tdubs »

In the next open season sign up for an HDHP/HSA. Many feds here have favored the GEHA HDHP. I had it till retirement.

Can you explain why you think owning municipal bonds (bond fund?) is worthwhile in your case?

The section labeled "Investments," is that your Roth IRA or an after tax brokerage account?
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

I'm one of the folks who encouraged you to join us, so I'm happy to help, but honestly we're going to need a lot more detail if you want us to give more detailed advice.
HJ14 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:22 pmMy guess is our costs come out to about 20% of our total take home pay?
This immediately sticks out as an indication that your case is either truly exceptional or there's some misunderstanding. You're claiming to save 80% of your net income? Even among Bogleheads, that's many standard deviations from the mean. If this is true, what's your motivation behind not fully retiring for another 20 years?

In terms of your investment choices, being all in the TSP and Vanguard funds is hard to beat. No worries about paying too much in fees, transaction costs, etc. there. It's hard to tell what your actual asset allocation is without more detail, but it looks like somewhere in the ballpark of 80/20 or even 90/10. Are you familiar with what that means, and what to expect (in terms of historical returns and theory) from such an allocation?
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:29 pm Home ownership is a lifestyle choice and isn't for everyone. It's not necessarily a positive or negative from a financial standpoint.
Agreed, and you should also see this classic article by Doug Nordman: Don’t Buy A Home When You Leave Active Duty

[About me, to establish some idea of where I'm coming from: I'm an active duty Army officer, product of ROTC, just about to pin O-5. I'm obligated for another six years of service and plan to retire - maybe fully - at that time. I've been a personal finance nerd since before I commissioned. Obviously I haven't been through the transition from service member to military retiree yet, so I'm blind to some aspects of that.]
Last edited by warner25 on Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
itnetpro
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by itnetpro »

HJ14 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:22 pm [Split from Subject: Certified Financial Planner: Where can veteran get a full financial analysis? by Moderator Misenplace]
HI, I'm the one asking about post Military retirement CFP. My friend introduced me to Bogleheads...so here it goes!
My ASK IS: ARE WE USING OUR MONEY IN THE MOST ADVANTAGEOUS POSITIONS IF WE PLAN ON A FINAL RETIREMENT IN ABOUT 20 YEARS?

Me and my wife, no kids, two demanding lap dogs

Income:
Pension/Military benefits + new job + wife's seasonal work + rental property income

Costs:
Rent plus all your typical costs of living. One big vacation per year with shorter local travel. Mortgage on our rental property, no car payments or loans otherwise (My guess is our costs come out to about 20% of our total take home pay?)

Accounts:
-Roth IRA (we max out every year )
-Emergency Fund
-Municipal bond
-Money market (we built this up to have cash on hand to buy a house --still looking...)
-Keep about $10K on hand as Rental house account to pay for repairs/contingencies
-We both work for the Government, we each have a Thrift Saving Plan (I cannot contribute anymore, but my wife can). we both have L2050:

G Fund 11.10%
F Fund 7.15%
C Fund 42.33%
S Fund 10.81%
I Fund 28.61%

Investments:
Of our total invested
15% - Vanguard Total International Stock Index Admiral
40% - Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Admiral
45% - Vanguard Wellington Admiral

I appreciate any feedback you all may have.
THANKS!
I'm a huge fan of Wellington! Always performs well, inexpensive, history back to 1929.

I'm curious why you are mixing it with indexes? Do you like the fund but are using it to get your portfolio mix where you want it? Example, Wellington holds about 5% international. That with your 15% gives you 20. There is also some duplication in your Wellington stock with total index.

Most folks here do all indexes, some just a single Actively managed that give them their preferred mix, some like me mix a couple of active to obtain the desired ratio. I'm retired, 54, mixing Wellington/Wellesley 50/50 for my preferred 50%/50% bonds/stocks.

A few, like yourself, keep a managed they like and add an index or two.

There is no right or wrong way to mix these three up...

Kudos on saving so much! We did the (Not 80% of our income but did max it out) same hoping to FIRE but waited a bit longer with some extra! We both retired two years ago at 52 & 55 and we are enjoying our 10 month old son!

I won't tell you what direction to go but I recommend using this tool to lay out that mix and see exactly how that breaks down between the three.

https://lt.morningstar.com/demo/module. ... dings.aspx

If you already know what you have and this is your preference, its a bit aggressive for my needs in retirement but good for you in the accumulation stage with your pension and job.

John
Last edited by itnetpro on Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:51 pm, edited 7 times in total.
There is no more, noble of a cause, than to lift people up in a way, that empowers them to make the world a better place for all of us. | | - Living the dream, retired at 52 in 2023
itnetpro
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by itnetpro »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:29 pm
gunny wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:59 pm Why are you renting? Unless you have a compelling reason not to, buy a house. Not only is it financially advantageous (tax break plus building up equity), but it's YOURS...if you want to paint a room or rip out a tree, you don't need to ask anyone's permission. And when it's paid off, bam, no more monthly payments.
Home ownership is a lifestyle choice and isn't for everyone. It's not necessarily a positive or negative from a financial standpoint.
I agree with Tibbitts on this one. When we sold our last home, we rented for a while because we like the flexibility while waiting for our first born to be born. We had planned to rent another 3 years but got nesty and decided to settle down recently, not from pressure that we were wasting money, because it was the right time.

Only downside, our 15 year mortgage is now costing us 6.8% and we way overpaid for new construction because of the housing shortage here!

So maybe renting might be good for you. If it was not for our son, we would continue to rent because it more fit our lifestyle. Don't let anyone shame you into thinking you are throwing money away.

John
There is no more, noble of a cause, than to lift people up in a way, that empowers them to make the world a better place for all of us. | | - Living the dream, retired at 52 in 2023
mouth
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by mouth »

warner25 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:04 pm Agreed, and you should also see this classic article by Doug Nordman: Don’t Buy A Home When You Leave Active Duty https://web.archive.org/web/20211023135 ... tive-duty/
Great article! I rented my house for the last 4 years of my career because I was "always a year away from moving again" because [skip irrelevant story]. Then I retired from the AF in 2014 and I was again "1-2 years from moving" because [a story that sounds a LOT like the linked article!!!]. So I ended up renting for 10 years in total!

Then I bought that same rental in 2020 (yay low rates!) and while 20/20 hindsight tells me I should have bought at least in 2015 (1y after retirement) I remind myself of the feeling I had in 2020 when I closed on the house; a real and true sense of a weight going onto my shoulders!!! I was "stuck"! "Moving would take a process!"

I'm now 5 years owning and 2 major renovations in and I can say for sure that buying was 100% the right decision, in 2020 and no sooner. If I'm completely honest with myself, I can say with a straight face that the right time to buy was circa 2018, 4y after my retirement. But any sooner than that, naw, I really didn't know if my first post-retirement job would last this long (10+ years!) or if I'd stay in this area until 2018.

Back to the OP:
Don't go rushing to buy, but also, don't ignore it. Be open. If you're lucky, YOUR time and the rate environment will get in sync [shrug] but in the mean time you seem to be doing really well as a fellow retiree.

I too am a little concerned that "expenses are 20% of take-home pay" feels so low as to be a mistake. Kudos if that's real, but I think we need a little more detail to confirm you're doing it right. Crazy as it seems that you could get something wrong that's seemingly so simple, but someone living THAT frugally usually doesn't need to ask these questions about retirement, when the answers are in-your-face self-evident. My only caveat/guess is if your new job is INSANELY better paying than your previous military pay. Which I know can happen with retired-enlisted IT especially if they are cleared cyber-security types. That pay jump can be eye watering!
abracadabra11
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by abracadabra11 »

warner25 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:04 pm
HJ14 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:22 pmMy guess is our costs come out to about 20% of our total take home pay?
This immediately sticks out as an indication that your case is either truly exceptional or there's some misunderstanding. You're claiming to save 80% of your net income?
If this is truly the case and not a recent phenomena, then you should have a portfolio well exceeding $5M and over 50X expenses. If the preceding is not true, then I encourage you to take a much closer look.
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

Regarding the savings rate, I'll put it this way: If one is saving 80%, they're well on their way to a very secure retirement, and it won't take another 20 years, especially with a significant COLA pension, Tricare for Life, and eventually SS.

I suspect that we're just talking past each other due to not having a common definition of "costs" and "total take home pay."

For the OP, the details needed for an analysis are rough dollar values (let's say rounded to two significant digits) for those income sources, costs, and accounts / assets.
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

thanks everybody,

Renting – we looked to buy a home for 2 years, never found anything we were good with (cost vs quality), and we had no idea where we were going to end up. I retired from active duty 01 Dec 2024. My new job materialized 2 weeks ago.

HDHP/HAS – If we have TRICARE, VA coverage, and a medical plan from my job- I’m not clear on what the benefit is

COSTS: Yup – I did that one way wrong! Gotta go back

80/20 -90/10: Is that stocks/bonds mix? Not familiar with this

The Municipal Bond: My wife saw a Suze Ormond show about it and got one.

Vanguard mix: Our old CFP (we worked with him in 2016, but then he retired) recommended, so we went with that and let it run. Great point on the duplication!

As you can tell, I’m fumbling through this. I really appreciate everyone’s help! This is fun

Loved the article and the Morningstar link !


Thanks
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

HJ14 wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:50 pm 80/20 -90/10: Is that stocks/bonds mix? Not familiar with this
That's right. And to put this in context, what I'm trying to do is step through the Bogleheads investment philosophy, which you can read about here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy

The first principle - which is why there's been so much emphasis on figuring out your true savings rate - is to Live below your means, and critical to that is getting "visibility on income and expenses." It's first because it's the most important thing; a high savings rate makes a lot of financial planning easy, and a too-low savings rate can't be planned around. Anyway, without solid numbers on this, it's hard to work out any plan.

The third principle (skipping the second, because it's just about the need for planning, which you're trying to do) is to Never bear too much or too little risk. And this mostly comes down to picking a sensible balance of stocks vs. bonds (and / or cash, bank CDs, stable value funds, etc.) along with avoiding stuff that's just speculative. But in terms of importance or determining success, this is next, so that's why I'm asking about it.
gunny
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by gunny »

HJ14 wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:50 pm Renting – we looked to buy a home for 2 years, never found anything we were good with (cost vs quality), and we had no idea where we were going to end up. I retired from active duty 01 Dec 2024. My new job materialized 2 weeks ago.
Gotcha - congrats and thanks for your service (retired USAF here). Something to keep in mind though, assuming you plan to stay in the area.
HDHP/HAS – If we have TRICARE, VA coverage, and a medical plan from my job- I’m not clear on what the benefit is
None; you're good. I'm about to go on Tricare Prime myself.
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

I'm going through the investment Philosophy now
thanks for the link!
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Nords
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by Nords »

warner25 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:04 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:29 pm Home ownership is a lifestyle choice and isn't for everyone. It's not necessarily a positive or negative from a financial standpoint.
Agreed, and you should also see this classic article by Doug Nordman: Don’t Buy A Home When You Leave Active Duty
Thanks, @Warner25, that one is next on my list to exhume from the Wayback Machine and republish with a 2025 update.

No significant changes, just more recent experience.

Last year our rental property reached the end of its 27.5 years of depreciation. Coincidentally we learned that insurers hate to deal with a 27-year-old cedar shake roof, no matter how good its condition.
HJ14 wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:50 pm Renting – we looked to buy a home for 2 years, never found anything we were good with (cost vs quality), and we had no idea where we were going to end up. I retired from active duty 01 Dec 2024. My new job materialized 2 weeks ago.
The most important part of that old blog post is the study showing that nearly half of all military veterans move (again) within two years of leaving active duty.

It's because they've succeeded at civilian life, not failed on the first move.

The second move happens because they've learned to navigate a civilian career, learned more about what they really want from their lifestyle, and started pursuing that. It's frequently because they've been promoted in their bridge career (and moved to a new location with the company) or simply found a better job.

Keep renting as long as it makes sense. If you think you've found the right location then rent for another 12-18 months while you do your local research, and then stalk your target neighborhood(s) until the right place (for you) goes on the market.
* | * | Please see my profile for my next book. I don't read every post, so please PM or e-mail me to get my attention.
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

About your bonds:
The Municipal Bond: My wife saw a Suze Ormond show about it and got one.
You didn't post your income or more specifically, your tax brackets. Is it high enough that you're getting more after-tax earnings from municipal bonds than from taxable bonds? Look up Taxable Equivalent Yield to determine this (there's a wiki page, but frankly, it's kind of math heavy, so an online calculator may be more helpful). Also, if you don't need to spend the income from your bonds right now and have a lot of savings in your retirement accounts, it might be better to hold your bonds in your TSP to defer taxes.
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

Hope some of the numbers will help this make more sense…
Me and my wife, no kids
Wife is in the Reserves so she is only making money ~4 months out of the year

For context: 2023 Taxes - adjusted gross was ~$170,000 (claimed ~$6k in rental home repairs) got back about $5K in refund
NO state taxes where we live
Am I right that we are in the 24% tax bracket?

Moving forward…
As of now, the DFAS/VA payments have just started, we are on track for both our Military benefits and my pension = $150K annual

My New job salary = $125K annual - starting next week , so its a big zero at the moment

rental home income = $10K annual (IF no repairs…so last year we lost half of that)

Wife Income during the active duty orders after TSP contributions is roughly $30K (per diem, COLA, etc all mixed up)

Accounts:
$170K =add both of our Roth IRA – we both max out every year
$50K = Emergency Fund
$10K = Municipal bond
$100K = money market Account – we planned to use this to help buy the house we never found - Probably a better place to put this :oops:
$10K = Rental house account to pay for repairs/contingencies
$700K add both our Thrift Saving Plan (TSP) - (I cannot contribute anymore, but my wife maxes out her TSP while on active duty orders) - TSP is in L2050
 fund

Investments:
~$320K across these accounts:
15% - Vanguard Total International Stock Index Admiral
40% - Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Admiral
45% - Vanguard Wellington Admiral

someone mentioned redundancy, is it better to consolidate, close international b/c it covered in the Wellington?

I still don’t think I got my costs correct when I tried again. Using 2023 taxes - If I calculate we had ~$50-60K in costs, of the $170K adjusted gross then my costs would be 30+% ?? Which I read somewhere, that is about average?

Hope that helps clear it up

Thanks !
BobbyBingle
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by BobbyBingle »

Congrats on having such a situation.

As a retired fed, I rolled half of my TSP to a Vanguard IRA for more flexiblity and faster, easier options.
At first, I wanted to keep access to the G fund but found that was not worthwhile.
Being very pleased with that move, I finally moved it all to my Vanguard IRA.
Then I annually converted some of the IRA to a Roth IRA without bumping up my tax bracket.

Now I am positioned to easily manage my assests with MANY more options and grow my Roth IRA.
The TSP was a drag.

Consider such a move.

I like simple so I invest in VTI to my level of risk acceptance and tolerance then a treasury ladder for the rest.
I know what to expect from the ladder and I sleep with that.
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

Good stuff! Thanks

Is the Treasure Ladder the same as TIPS (like the Boglehead video series talks about?)

Moving the TSP into the Vanguard IRAs...I'm assuming your money was not growing at the same rate as the TSP, but for you the access/timing was worth it?
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

HJ14 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:58 pm For context: 2023 Taxes - adjusted gross was ~$170,000... I still don’t think I got my costs correct when I tried again. Using 2023 taxes - If I calculate we had ~$50-60K in costs, of the $170K adjusted gross then my costs would be 30+% ?? Which I read somewhere, that is about average?
The numbers help, but let's try to get some more clarity on this. You were on active duty in 2023, right? So you were receiving BAH (or it was withheld to pay for your rent and utilities while living on-base), which wouldn't be included in this $170k, right? What was your housing situation then? How much is your rent now, and are you including that in your $50-60k?

I'd say that your "costs" ("spending" or "expenses") were your total income (Basic Pay + BAH + BAS + Special and Incentive Pay + your rental income) minus Federal income taxes (lines 4 and 6 on your Form W-2 + line 24 on your Form 1040) minus your new contributions to savings (how much went into your Roth IRAs + TSP accounts + that money market account, etc.). What is that math?

With that said, now a lot about your situation has changed since 2023, but the key is to figure out how much you really need to spend so you have a target for full retirement in 20 years.
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

Yes! Great catch. We lived off base. Rent will be about the same and it was included in the costs.
I did not factor in the money we got that did NOT get taxed.

Thank you for the breakdown. That's super helpful for me!
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

So if your total income in 2023 was even higher (let's say ballpark $200k), and subtracting taxes and new savings contributions during that year legitimately leaves you a difference of $50-60k (your total spending, and you're confident that this is the same going forward), this raises two big questions:

1. Where was all the excess going over the past 20+ years? You must have shoveled $100k+ into savings in 2023. Your total portfolio adds up to almost $1.4M, which is not bad by any means, but seems low if you've had up to a ~70% savings rate and the fairly aggressive asset allocation that you outlined. For comparison, my wife and I have a portfolio just shy of $1.5M despite earning less than you, saving less (averaging 40%), for less time, and having a less aggressive asset allocation (~60/40).

2. Do you just love your new job? Because your $150k in retirement + disability pay alone is 2-3x your annual spending. If you didn't take a new job, and your wife quit drilling and picking up active duty orders, you could still shovel nearly $100k into savings every year. With you making another $125k and her making another $30k per year, your annual savings might be approaching $200k. If that's the case, you need an estate plan more than an investment plan. Since you have no kids, do you have extended family to which you want to leave a 7-8 figure inheritance? Do you have some charities in mind?
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HJ14
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by HJ14 »

Great question! Where did it go? I don't know. The first decade of service I was too busy deploying, and I spent most of my blood money, I think the painted ladies made off with most it--and they earned it. General shenanigans. About halfway through got married, We really didn't get serious about this money stuff until 2016 -ish. But all I know is, it was totally worth it :D
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warner25
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Re: [Just retired from the military, need] a full financial analysis

Post by warner25 »

HJ14 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 9:08 pm...really didn't get serious about this money stuff until 2016 -ish...
That makes sense, and I meant no judgment. I just wanted to be sure that the numbers added up and the story matched, which appears to be the case. I stand by my second point in my last reply: you're in an exceptionally strong position and probably need to be thinking about an estate plan more than an investment plan going forward.
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