seeking Vanguard money market alternative

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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I"m only going there to set up a Chase self directed account (on their computer, but on my own with any help answering questions), and to establish bank links. I don't know what "choices" they want to offer, but I feel uneasy about it.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I sent my trust document to the branch manager in advance and was told that it would take about 1 hour to set up a self directed account. I carefully organized all materials and went into the bank. I ended up there for a long period of time (not sure how long—probably close to 2 hours) doing nothing but trying to get a trust account set up. There were more things to accomplish (add banks, register, get checks, and transfer funds from a Vanguard fund--VUSXX). But not even the account was set up in this time period because they have to email the application, verify me on my home phone, and have me e-sign the document. This seems absolutely absurd to me because I was SITTING RIGHT THERE and they could have a REAL SIGNATURE from a REAL VERIFIED PERSON on the spot. But no, we have to go through all sorts of hullabaloo instead.

The above is not the only thing that was disturbing. I had to answer loads of questions posed by some jerk on the phone, and they seemed invasive to me, and I resented the fact that I was being put through all this with no prior warning, and 3 times this jerk threatened to disconnect me because he did not like the way I was speaking to him! What I was saying to him was like nothing—I was simply expressing my frustration with the entire process, and I didn’t even know the answers to the questions he was asking! They were about things I have never thought about or even heard about in my life (I can’t even repeat them because I don’t know what these questions even referred to). And of course, he wanted to know how much money I had. The rep in the room was a sweet woman who was just stuck there doing her job.

I felt absolutely terrible about the whole experience when I left and this hung over me for about 3 hours. I felt like some bank was trying to get its clutches into me. At home, I read reviews of Chase (BBB A-) and JP Morgan (BBB B-). I thought to myself: why on earth would I want to be involved in another convoluted, hellish company (in an attempt to leave Vanguard)? I think I am setting myself up for more bad experiences. There must be a better way to get out of Vanguard.

In addition to the above, prior to going into the bank, a “broker” from the bank called me. She had NO UNDERSTANDING AT ALL of what I was trying to do, and she said to me at one point: we will have to put you into a different money market because we don’t hold that one. This infuriated me. No one is PUTTING me somewhere! I had a plan which this woman did not even take the time to read about (I had sent an email to the branch manager explaining everything), and she did not even know that VUSXX IS ONLY HELD ON THE SELF-DIRECTED PLATFORM (which I learned from this forum). I felt really turned off after this call—like they were trying to manipulate me.

I have not signed the application and my gut instinct is not to sign it. My gut instinct is to stay away from this company. Unfortunately, I am afraid there is nothing better than this--nothing decent around at this point in time in the financial institution realm. Chase/JP Morgan holds VUSXX and it will give a $700 perk when I transfer in kind, but I have a very very bad feeling about moving forward. This was my solution to lousy Vanguard, but I think it is a bad solution destined for worse experiences to come. I don’t trust financial institutions in general at all any more, and especially banks. I don’t know what to do with about half of all assets which are tied up in Vanguard’s VUSXX (with 1undesirable link out, no checks, and an account mishandled by Vanguard 30 years ago). I want to leave, but maybe I should DO NOTHING until I make a plan with the financial advisor I have picked. I am very disturbed by all this.
livesoft
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Re: buying VUXSS (Vanguard treasury MM) in Chase

Post by livesoft »

livesoft wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 2:37 am I do not use Chase. I think there is no place or financial institution that can do what you want as you have explained things.
I know it is not helpful, but I wanted to repeat the above. Do you have a friend or relative that can help filter out things for you while physically sitting in the same room? While it is interesting to read about your trials and tribulations I don't think remote unknown people will ever appreciate all the hassles you have been subjected to.
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clip651
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by clip651 »

Pappagallina wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2025 7:58 pm I sent my trust document to the branch manager in advance and was told that it would take about 1 hour to set up a self directed account. I carefully organized all materials and went into the bank. I ended up there for a long period of time (not sure how long—probably close to 2 hours) doing nothing but trying to get a trust account set up. There were more things to accomplish (add banks, register, get checks, and transfer funds from a Vanguard fund--VUSXX). But not even the account was set up in this time period because they have to email the application, verify me on my home phone, and have me e-sign the document. This seems absolutely absurd to me because I was SITTING RIGHT THERE and they could have a REAL SIGNATURE from a REAL VERIFIED PERSON on the spot. But no, we have to go through all sorts of hullabaloo instead.

The above is not the only thing that was disturbing. I had to answer loads of questions posed by some jerk on the phone, and they seemed invasive to me, and I resented the fact that I was being put through all this with no prior warning, and 3 times this jerk threatened to disconnect me because he did not like the way I was speaking to him! What I was saying to him was like nothing—I was simply expressing my frustration with the entire process, and I didn’t even know the answers to the questions he was asking! They were about things I have never thought about or even heard about in my life (I can’t even repeat them because I don’t know what these questions even referred to). And of course, he wanted to know how much money I had. The rep in the room was a sweet woman who was just stuck there doing her job.
...
What bank was this, Chase? I haven't heard great things about setting up new accounts with Chase, let alone trust accounts there. But that's just anecdotal experiences of some of my acquaintances.

Please keep in mind than any bank or brokerage you go to will be required to ask you a series of questions that will feel invasive, including how much money you have, and a bunch of things to confirm your identity, and more. If you go to a new financial planner, they'll be required to do this too. It's called Know Your Customer, it's a legal requirement for them to do this. Here is a detailed explanation of it:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/knowyourclient.asp

This law started around 2001. If you have old accounts, you may not have needed to provide so much detail when you opened the accounts years ago. But every bank or brokerage will ask these things for any new account you're opening. Even to open another account at the same institution you will have to provide or reconfirm all of that info. Thinking that the person on the phone or in person who is asking you these questions is a jerk is likely to come through in your tone of voice. You can be frustrated if you want to, but showing that frustration to the people that are trying to help you set up an account will not help the process.

You certainly might be right to trust your gut and not move forward with a Chase account. But wherever you go, you'll need to answer these questions to open an account.

best wishes,
cj
Topic Author
Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. I had been trying to think of someone I could talk to about this even before writing. I can't think of anyone who would know what I am talking about in the least. Is there some kind of "financial counseling service" for people? These kinds of issues can be harrowing.

Regarding the questions I was asked: I did have to open new accounts at Schwab after my mother died (2023) but I was never asked such weird, crazy, and invasive questions. Nothing seemed abnormal, whereas this was horrible, with some odd man on a speaker phone asking me invasive questions for a terribly long period of time. And then if I got upset, he would threaten to disconnect me! I just want to disconnect them! Yes, it was Chase. I think the branch manager should have told me that I would be there for two hours because it was a trust, and then nothing would be accomplished that day. I feel that I have been misled, invaded, and that attempts were made to manipulate me. I see no way to resolve this--institutions like this can't resolve things.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Another big thing I worry about is that there will be "fine print" things which will end up being harmful to me, but I won't know how to recognize this beforehand. I have to sign the application. I don't know the ramifications of what I am signing, and I believe these companies only act in their own self interest.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I"m switching into the Gabelli US Treasury Fund and holding it at Schwab. I will decide on more xhlf, etc., later.
increment
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by increment »

It looks like Schwab offers the Gabelli US Treasury Money Market Fund only to "Trust Company Customers Only." I hope that they're not charging you a Transaction Fee to buy it.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thanks, I will look into it. It was recommended to me.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Glad I mentioned it. You're right---I can't buy it at Schwab (I don't know who can). I'll try to see where I can buy it. I am so sick of being given the wrong info--and this was by an advisor doing this for 25 years!
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Curly
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Curly »

Hello,

I don't recall if you had already decided against using E-Trade for your desired objective. GABXX is available there and I don't think there are any restrictions other than the minimum amount required for initial investment. Be sure to read the prospectus...I think once when I went through it that I read there is a $5 fee for each distribution the investor pulls from the fund. But maybe I'm :confused not remembering the details correctly.

Good luck.

Pappagallina wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:31 pm Glad I mentioned it. You're right---I can't buy it at Schwab (I don't know who can). I'll try to see where I can buy it.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thanks, Curly. I know you really like e-trade. Unfortunately, I think e-trade is one of the F-rated companies. I am about at the end of my rope with all this. Even an advisor for 25 years gives wrong info? How can I trust someone like that? The realm of financial institutions is just full of corruption and people are misled right and left. It's beyond disheartening.
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Curly
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Curly »

I don't particularly like E-Trade, but I do keep the account open so I can invest using Vanguard VUSXX.

I will say that notwithstanding whatever you have read about E-Trade and the F-rating, if all you want to do is move money there to invest in a money market, with occasional distributions back to your bank account, then E-Trade performs well. Nothing is as fast as Fidelity, in my experience (sometimes cash moves same day from Fidelity to our bank), but E-Trade is often not more than two days.

Good luck as you seek a solution to your money management needs.
Pappagallina wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:28 pm Thanks, Curly. I know you really like e-trade. Unfortunately, I think e-trade is one of the F-rated companies. I am about at the end of my rope with all this. Even an advisor for 25 years gives wrong info? How can I trust someone like that? The realm of financial institutions is just full of corruption and people are misled right and left. It's beyond disheartening.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. That is a thought: that if I am only doing the money market, maybe nothing really disturbing and non-manageable will happen. However, all I did at Vanguard was have a money market (plus one fund from my mother) and I can't even set up bank links because Vanguard screwed up the account 30 years ago, and nobody could even figure that out (hours lost on inept customer service). So I don't know. . . I prefer an organized and efficient company (like Schwab, where of course, this will not work). I will try to look at e-trade again. Thanks.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I read reviews on the BBB site on e-trade. I can't knowingly put myself into that kind of situation. The reviews are terrible. E-trade will not be an option for me.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I found out that one CAN buy the Gabelli US Treasury fund in Schwab, but EVERY TIME a transaction is made, there is a fee, so it doesn't make any sense.
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by UpperNwGuy »

OP, it sounds to me that you should simply use Schwab's own money market funds SNSXX (Treasury) and SWVXX (mix of government and commercial). Your yields will be slightly less than VUSXX, but all of your other issues will go away.

Dividends will auto-reinvest in the same funds without you having to do anything. You only need to get involved when you want to add or remove money.

If you take this approach, the Schwab reps will get your money out of Vanguard for you. You won't have to do a thing.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. I will consider this. The only thing I don't like about the Schwab money markets is that they trade like a mutual fund. This creates lots of problems getting money in and out. I would prefer a non-brokerage account for a money market, but this may not be possible with any kind of decent yield. It's unbelievable to me that I end up with so many problems over a money market!
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I called Gabelli directly. I can set up an account there. Any money I move into this US Treasury MM fund goes DIRECTLY into the fund (it does not sit somewhere, and I do not have to move it manually). It's usually 2-3 days to get it out. They can set up 3 banks with no signature guarantee, by sending in voided checks with the application. And they can transfer the funds out of Vanguard. THE ONLY DRAWBACK IS THAT IF I ADD MONEY TO THE ACCOUNT, I CAN'T REMOVE ANY MONEY FOR 7 DAYS WITHOUT PAYING 2%. I think I can manage this. I have never taken any money out of Vanguard--only put it in (which doesn't mean it will always be that way). Does anyone have any experience with Gabelli?
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celia
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by celia »

Only read the first few posts in this thread...

Here's what I would do in OP's situation since linking 3 new banks to one Vanguard account sounds sort of fishy (as the custodian sees it). First, try to simplify why you are using so many accounts and custodians. Consolidate where you can. I understand if you and your spouse might have employer retirement accounts somewhere else, but even those don't need to be linked to vanguard.

Note that the two accounts you are trying to link need to be titled the same or more paperwork will be required.

Another idea is to create two more accounts at Vanguard and link the 2nd and 3rd banks to them.
increment
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by increment »

Pappagallina wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:46 pm I called Gabelli directly. I can set up an account there.
Look at the prospectus. Take a bit of time to consider the "Shareholder Fees" table under "Fees and Expense of the Fund" and the section called "REDEMPTION OF SHARES" to make sure that it is consistent with how you want to do business with them.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. I have read most of the prospectus and I don't see that 2% is kept if one puts money into the fund and then removes money before 7 days. I also did not grasp the fees (shown for various time periods). ???
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jeffyscott
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by jeffyscott »

The fees that I see in the GABXX prospectus seem to be easy to avoid, except the account closure one:

The Fund will charge your account $5.00 for each telephone request for bank wire redemption under $5,000 or telephone request for redemption by check. The Fund will also charge a $5.00 account close-out
fee when you redeem all shares in your account
...
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. What you said seemed right to me as I read it, but I wanted to make sure I was not missing something. But I see NOTHING about being charged 2% if I put money in and take money out within 7 days afterwards. This is what the rep said on the phone (I don't see it). I also don't understand the expense example at the beginning. I THINK they are just referring to the .08% expense ratio, but I am not positive. I can't grasp the numbers. Are these examples just referring to the .08% expense ratio? I appreciate being given this prospectus because I don't want any surprises!
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jeffyscott
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by jeffyscott »

Pappagallina wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 11:36 pm I THINK they are just referring to the .08% expense ratio, but I am not positive. I can't grasp the numbers. Are these examples just referring to the .08% expense ratio? I appreciate being given this prospectus because I don't want any surprises!
I see two examples, if you don't redeem it's $8 per $10K per year, which is 0.08% and if you redeem all shares it's $5 more due to the account closing fee.

For the multi year examples, there's a 5% return assumed, so that increases the dollar amount because balance increases each year, e.g. in year two it 0.08% of $10,500.
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by chrisdds98 »

Pappagallina wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 8:35 pm Thank you. I have read most of the prospectus and I don't see that 2% is kept if one puts money into the fund and then removes money before 7 days. I also did not grasp the fees (shown for various time periods). ???
what is the benefit of this fund besides the absurd rules and higher fees than xhlf?
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thanks, everyone. This is actually the first time I read a prospectus (no time!). I found out that the 2% does NOT apply to money markets (the first rep on the phone did not say this). This is very helpful! For me, the advantage is that it is faster and easier to remove money than xhlf (which seems really good, but not for everything), the interest rate is good like VUSXX, I don't have to deal with inept Vanguard (I already have a person to whom I can write, or call, if I have issues filling out the forms or other issues) and it's a direct connection for money going in and out (it doesn't sit somewhere until I move it, like Schwab, and I don't have to "sell shares" before I can move money, so it's faster). This seems like a great solution, provided the bank links work (they told me they should work as long as my name is on the account--they are different registrations). I think this is my best solution, in conjunction with xhlf and other fixed options, which I do not yet understand. You were all very helpful with this. If anyone wants the name and phone number of the individual investor person at Gabelli, let me know. I know it is public knowledge, but I found it in an odd way. Thank you again.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I am trying to make a plan that allows for possibilities, because I am trying to get financial planning help soon. Although I can't stand dealing with Vanguard, that doesn't mean I may not be interested in one of their funds. The best option is to leave Vanguard completely and buy any future Vanguard fund through Schwab, but I don't know how realistic that is. I called Schwab and it looks like some Vanguard funds are available through Schwab (that means dealing with Schwab people for a Vanguard fund, which is much better). The future is unknown for me. Does anyone here know how extensive the Vanguard purchasing options are at Schwab? Does Schwab offer MOST of the Vanguard funds, or only a few (I don't have enough experience with this)? I don't know if I should leave a little there in VUSXX, just in case. As long as it is just SITTING THERE in a fund and I don't have to move the money around (like with a primary money market), and I don't have to deal with Vanguard itself, it's not so bad. If I do take everything out of Vanguard, that's it forever. I will not open another account. They have also not switched me to a brokerage account yet, and this may be a real problem also. I have to decide whether to leave Vanguard COMPLETELY or leave a little there.
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by rkhusky »

You should move completely to Schwab or Fidelity. You can always use ETF’s if it costs too much money to buy mutual funds.
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jeffyscott
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by jeffyscott »

You can find funds available at Schwab on their website:

https://www.schwab.com/research/mutual- ... s/screener

You'd have to pay transaction fees to buy Vanguard mutual funds, unless you get a waiver.
rkhusky
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by rkhusky »

I will note that Fidelity, Schwab and Vanguard each has 10’s of millions of customers and trillions of dollars under management. If any were truly bad, that would not be the case. The differences are minor as numerous customer satisfaction surveys show.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

I am still working on all this. Is there anything really dangerous about xhlf? I'm thinking of putting a lot more into xhlf.
Thanks.
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sycamore
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by sycamore »

Pappagallina wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:33 pm I am still working on all this. Is there anything really dangerous about xhlf? I'm thinking of putting a lot more into xhlf.
Thanks.
Nothing dangerous.

It's an ETF so make sure you're comfortable with how to buy and sell shares, and how "settlement" works.

Know that it's not a "stable value" investment like a money market fund, savings account, or CD. Its share price fluctuates a little bit.

Understand how and when the dividend is paid.

I sometimes use SGOV for short term cash needs. I'd be comfortable using XHLF as well.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you. What does it mean "how settlement works"? I have bought it, and watched it, but I have not yet sold anything. I also wonder if it makes much difference when I buy it. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
LikeNumbers
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by LikeNumbers »

Sorry to hear about your issues with Vanguard - I've read and heard directly from others about their poor customer service.

The following is just FYI:
I've been with Fidelity for decades, I self manage and am generally happy, you can have Vanguard offerings w/in a Fidelity account.
I do everything on-line, their chat feature has proven useful a few times.
Am currently considering using Fidelity's cash management account as my local Credit Union had very nice people but a poor bill pay arrangement.
rkhusky
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by rkhusky »

LikeNumbers wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:18 am Sorry to hear about your issues with Vanguard - I've read and heard directly from others about their poor customer service.

The following is just FYI:
I've been with Fidelity for decades, I self manage and am generally happy, you can have Vanguard offerings w/in a Fidelity account.
I do everything on-line, their chat feature has proven useful a few times.
Am currently considering using Fidelity's cash management account as my local Credit Union had very nice people but a poor bill pay arrangement.
I’ve been happily with Vanguard for decades too, and have had no problems.

Before going with Fidelity’s CMA, you might want to peruse the recent threads about Fidelity’s ham-handed reaction to fraud problems.
Here’s a recent one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=447946
Here’s the original one:
viewtopic.php?t=439500
bogling
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by bogling »

LikeNumbers wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:18 am Sorry to hear about your issues with Vanguard - I've read and heard directly from others about their poor customer service.

The following is just FYI:
I've been with Fidelity for decades, I self manage and am generally happy, you can have Vanguard offerings w/in a Fidelity account.
I do everything on-line, their chat feature has proven useful a few times.
Am currently considering using Fidelity's cash management account as my local Credit Union had very nice people but a poor bill pay arrangement.
How do you hold Vanguard non-ETF funds like their MMMFs (eg VUSXX)?
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sycamore
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by sycamore »

Pappagallina wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:33 pm Thank you. What does it mean "how settlement works"? I have bought it, and watched it, but I have not yet sold anything. I also wonder if it makes much difference when I buy it. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
Settlement is used with brokerage accounts. It's how you pay for a security (like XHLF) or get the proceeds from selling a security. Buying something in a brokerage account is not like buying groceries at the store.

Let's say on Monday you place an order to buy 100 shares of XHLF. It costs $50.29/share. Your order is executed immediately but the trade is not settled until Tuesday -- that's just how it works, your trades settle on "T+1" meaning trade date plus 1 business day.

And let's say you have $5100.00 in your settlement account on Monday. That's enough to cover the $5029 purchase. But you decide to transfer $100 from your settlement account to your bank. On Tuesday, you now only have $5000, and that's not enough to cover your purchase. Uh oh!

Lesson: don't do that. jeep track of your pending purchases and your current settlement balance, just like you would with a checkbook register. The brokerage may try to figure out if you've done something to mess up your pending settlement, but ultimately it's your responsibility.

I imagine if you're used to buying mutual funds in a "mutual fund only" account, you'll find using a brokerage account annoying or confusing. There's a learning curve for sure. But it sounds like you've already bought XHLF shares once, so good for you!

Selling is similar. You place an order on one day, and the trade settles the next business day. That means you may not get the proceeds of the sale until the next day. Many brokerages may let you "use" the unsettled proceeds (like to buy shares of something else) but there's no law that says they have to. So you should be prepared to wait "T+1" before getting the cash. That means you need to plan ahead.

Good luck, ask questions as needed.
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Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you all for your suggestions. First, I am glad you have had good experiences with Fidelity. I have never had a bad experience with Amex, in 17 years, yet they have a rating of F with the BBB. However, with Fidelity, I had the worst experience ever. They closed my mother's account for no reason (I was the only trustee on it), they refused to speak with me over and over because they could not verify me (the account was there 30 years--they would literally hang up on me!), nothing helped (including going to their far-away office here) and I ended up reporting them to the BBB (no solution), FINRA and Atty General's office (this is where it was resolved). This took months--I WAS ENRAGED OFF THE CHARTS. I just got the money out right before a dividend in the new year, when we were not filing a trust return. I DESPISE FIDELITY. I TOOK EVERYTHING OUT OF FIDELITY. I WILL NEVER USE FIDELITY AGAIN.

Thank you for instructions, and I do understand the brokerage account (I can't say that I like brokerage accounts). I am wondering if it makes any difference when I BUY XHLF. Does it matter? It seems like the price does not change a lot. But I don't know if it matters much when the fund it actually bought (in regard to the different "important dates" like ex-dividend, etc.). Does it matter?
Thanks.
dagsboro
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by dagsboro »

Pappagallina wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:57 pm It appears that all of you have much more background and interest in complex investments. I have a lot on my plate and I must have something simple that can take care of itself. I am trying to set everything up so that it will continue on without my activity as much as possible, because I don't know what is coming next (my husband has serious cognitive issues, the house is too big and I need to leave it, I can't keep up with everything I have to do). I can't waste time on lousy reps and I can't set up things that need constant monitoring. So that is a big goal for me! Your suggestions are helpful, when I can understand them, and I appreciate them. I just have to do something that will last for some period of time. I need to do it and move on to the next thing!
Thanks again, Eileen
I continue to marvel at the lengths to which some bogleheads will go to help complete strangers. I admit I am sometimes confused by the jargon and acronyms they use and the belief that the uninitiated will grasp anything close to what they consider the abc's of investing basics. But it's a free forum populated by some experts who have been through the school of hard knocks so I grin and bear it and remind myself to be ultra clear in my own communications. I have also been very annoyed by some of Vanguard's practices and policies in the past couple of years. And I don't give them a pass for not properly communicating about their change to the target retirement fund in 2021. And I much preferred my legacy mutual fund to their brokerage. But all of their reps have been patient and helpful to me, so far. One made a mistake a couple of years ago which cost me some time and effort to correct but it was corrected. Nevertheless, there are those among us who must be held by the hand to understand. Like many things in American life, you sometimes get what you pay for and that may be what we are facing with Vanguard as it becomes even more of a behemoth but with very low costs. But once I sense arrogance, once I encounter persistent incompetence, if ever I detect intentional deceit, then I will make the effort to get out from under poor customer service. By the way, I have never been misled by a knowledgeable boglehead
Baires
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Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2025 9:56 pm

Re: buying VUSXX (Vanguard treasury MM) in Chase

Post by Baires »

PatrickA5 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:38 pm I have a Chase checking account and a Chase (JPMorgan) brokerage account. Most of my brokerage money is in VUSXX. There is no fee to buy or sell. The online trade process is simple. Yes, it is a little bit of a pain to have to buy and sell the VUSXX and wait until the next day to have access to the funds.

To help that problem a little bit, I've opened a JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account. It has a $50K minimum initial deposit, but can go below that balance (I currently have $1K). The good thing about the account is I can "withdraw" the money from the account (online) and immediately transfer (during normal business hours) to my checking account giving me pretty much instant access to a decent sum of money. The account is currently paying 3.6%. It's similar to a savings account, but is part of the brokerage account. There is a fairly current thread on this new account.
Thank you PatrickA5, I've found this information about JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account being very interesting, but I still do not understand completely how it works: can you sell some VUSXX and immediately transfer same amount to checking account via JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account, or you need to have already some funds on JPM PDA staying with 3.6% interest to be able to transfer them?

In latter case, it very similar to Fidelity cash management account or to Vanguard Cash Plus
Last edited by Baires on Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PatrickA5
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: buying VUSXX (Vanguard treasury MM) in Chase

Post by PatrickA5 »

Baires wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:30 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:38 pm I have a Chase checking account and a Chase (JPMorgan) brokerage account. Most of my brokerage money is in VUSXX. There is no fee to buy or sell. The online trade process is simple. Yes, it is a little bit of a pain to have to buy and sell the VUSXX and wait until the next day to have access to the funds.

To help that problem a little bit, I've opened a JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account. It has a $50K minimum initial deposit, but can go below that balance (I currently have $1K). The good thing about the account is I can "withdraw" the money from the account (online) and immediately transfer (during normal business hours) to my checking account giving me pretty much instant access to a decent sum of money. The account is currently paying 3.6%. It's similar to a savings account, but is part of the brokerage account. There is a fairly current thread on this new account.
Thank you PatrickA5, I've found this information about JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account being very interesting, but I still do not understand completely how it works: can you sell some VUSXX and immediately transfer same amount to checking account via JPMorgan Premium Deposit Account, or you need to have already some funds on JPM PDA staying with 3.6% interest to be able to transfer them?

In latter case, it very similar to Fidelity cash management account or to Vanguard Cash Plus
The money has to already be in the Premium Deposit account. Selling VUSXX will require it to settle overnight before you could deposit it into PDA or transfer it to checking.

Yes, it's similar to Fidelity CMA in that you can get the money immediately into checking by "withdrawing" from Premium Deposit and then transferring to checking. Premium Deposit has one extra step (compared to CMA) in that you have to withdraw it first, but you don't have to wait for it to settle like you would if you sold VUSXX (at Chase). So, during normal business hours you pretty much immediate access to PDA money.
Bagels
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Bagels »

I just read this whole thread in one go. By the end of page one all I could think was, Eileen, you need a money manager.
Pappagallina wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2025 10:25 pm Thank you. I had been trying to think of someone I could talk to about this even before writing. I can't think of anyone who would know what I am talking about in the least. Is there some kind of "financial counseling service" for people? These kinds of issues can be harrowing.
The feeling only grew stronger by pages 2 and 3.
I see livesoft beat me to it a month ago: a trusted friend or relative whom you can talk to. The way I envision it, someone who will listen to you, and who can click the screen while you watch, to link banks to VUSXX.

Sometimes when too many problems with our home crop up — noise from neighbors, damage or deterioration that can only be remedied by a professional contractor — my wife and I fantasize about moving elsewhere. Then we realize that it’s probably going to be even worse elsewhere. Noisier neighbors, etc.
That’s how I feel about Vanguard vs other financial institutions.

We all have our frustrations with Vanguard. My father is in his eighties and has been with them for decades, but is extremely disappointed in them as of the past 10 years. However, I do think the Better Business Bureau is “pay to play.” They were exposed in 2010. The BBB is just not what it used to be, and I wouldn’t get too hung up on the grades it gives out. (Yes, many bogleheads would still personally give Vanguard an F! I give them a C, but I’m hopeful about the brand new CEO).

As someone else pointed out, there are going to be signature requirements and invasive questions at many of these financial institutions, not just at Vanguard. That’s why I feel like you need another person, an advocate, or something. Someone who is in your corner, but who does not work at these institutions. Someone whose only goal is to take your requests and get them done.

You did already write that you don’t have anyone in mind, but I don’t know, had to type all this out anyway. I’m rooting for you, Eileen. Maybe you have a friend or relative who already uses a money mangager who can take you on as a client as well.
How can you tell if someone’s a vegan | Ans: Oh, they’ll tell you | How do you know if a boglehead doesn’t care about calculating dividend yield? | Ans: Oh, they’ll tell you, even if 10 other people have
Topic Author
Pappagallina
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thank you, Bagels, for taking the time to read all that and write all that. I think you are right. I picked a "financial planner" who does a plan based on one's situation, but I can't do it until I get taxes done. But thank you again.
Eileen
Bagels
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:08 am

Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Bagels »

Very glad to hear it!
How can you tell if someone’s a vegan | Ans: Oh, they’ll tell you | How do you know if a boglehead doesn’t care about calculating dividend yield? | Ans: Oh, they’ll tell you, even if 10 other people have
Topic Author
Pappagallina
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:56 pm

Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

This is just a note to say that, after all this (time-consuming, convoluted, infuriating off the charts), Vanguard DID FIX THE BANK LINKS. I found this out by accident, trying to get my money out as best I could, and just by accident trying to send $10.00 to see if it went to two banks. It is in the process of going. So I CAN GET MY MONEY OUT OF VANGUARD and I can send it where I want to send it. They did not tell me they fixed it. This is months now. I complained to the BBB and wrote scathing emails to the company.

This does not in the slightest change my perception of the ineptitude of Vanguard, but at least it gives me some leeway while I am trying to make decisions about what should happen. In the process, I learned about xhlf and Gabelli, etc. I would far have preferred to have good service from Vanguard. That company caused me to waste a huge amount of my time. They are not worth it.
Eileen
MtnTravel
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Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by MtnTravel »

Pappagallina wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:03 am This does not in the slightest change my perception of the ineptitude of Vanguard, but at least it gives me some leeway while I am trying to make decisions about what should happen.
I think you'd be happy with Chase/JP Morgan. Vanguard's brokerage may be infuriating, but they have some of the best investment products in the business. Plus, they just lowered the expense ratio on VUSXX, which is one of the higher yielding money market funds out there. You can buy and sell it for free at JP Morgan in their self-directed account and not have to otherwise deal with Vanguard.

Overall, I'm happy with Chase/JPM customer service. They aren't as friendly as Schwab or Fidelity, but they are very efficient at solving issues.
Topic Author
Pappagallina
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:56 pm

Re: seeking Vanguard money market alternative

Post by Pappagallina »

Thanks for sharing about the change in the expense ratio--it's helpful. Regarding Chase, I just don't want to be hooked up with a big bank like that.
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