House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

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CascadiaSoonish
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House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by CascadiaSoonish »

We bought an old home almost 20 years ago and did a gut renovation of much of the house. Twenty years, two kids, and several pets later the house is showing wear and tear. Everything is still perfectly functional but counters are worn, plumbing fixtures can be flaky, grout is breaking down, carpets are shot, some electrical and lighting is semi-obsolete, some dated features we didn't address 20 years ago are even more dated, and a full repaint is needed.

What I'm trying to figure out is how to address all this stuff without basically taking on a full-time job as a designer/GC or spending a fortune. We could talk to GCs, but I doubt a GC wants to take on glorified handyman tasks and bits-and-pieces work on a budget that's less than what they could get spending their time on a rip and replace job. We could throw money at more substantial renovations (we're not moving soon but expect to sell in 5-10 years) but we'd be unlikely to recoup much of that when we sell. Or we could nibble away at it with smaller projects where we manage the contractors ourselves, but doing it piecemeal is high overhead and is hard to make it all work together.

What did the Bogleheads do in similar circumstances with their homes?
Cletus Davenport
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Cletus Davenport »

Buy the light fixtures you like. Hire an electrician to install them. Also refresh your outlets and face plates for a new look.

Do the same with plumbing fixtures.

Hire a counter company to redo your countertops.

Then get a painter to repaint everything, including possibly your cabinets and bathroom vanities.

Finally, replace all the carpets.

For us, we struggle with making aesthetic decisions. So we are an interior designer for a couple hundred bucks to pick paint colors, carpet, counter tops, etc.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by bendix »

I bought a house that had a medium amount of wear and tear. Some issues here, some issues there. Fixed a number of them over the last couple of years. Some still remain. And I find myself unwilling to invest the time and the effort and make all these choices that go along with it. I`ll see how that goes but there´s a huge appeal to just buy a house that´s "ready" and doesnt need any of that for a good number of years.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by PinotGris »

Cletus Davenport wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:42 pm Buy the light fixtures you like. Hire an electrician to install them. Also refresh your outlets and face plates for a new look.

Do the same with plumbing fixtures.

Hire a counter company to redo your countertops.

Then get a painter to repaint everything, including possibly your cabinets and bathroom vanities.

Finally, replace all the carpets.

For us, we struggle with making aesthetic decisions. So we are an interior designer for a couple hundred bucks to pick paint colors, carpet, counter tops, etc.
What is involved in replacing granite countertop? How much work is involved, how much inconvenience during the work? Would you replace the sink and disposal as well? Then it requires 2 different companies and coordinating the work involved. I just dread the mess and intrusion.
London
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by London »

PinotGris wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:56 pm
Cletus Davenport wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:42 pm Buy the light fixtures you like. Hire an electrician to install them. Also refresh your outlets and face plates for a new look.

Do the same with plumbing fixtures.

Hire a counter company to redo your countertops.

Then get a painter to repaint everything, including possibly your cabinets and bathroom vanities.

Finally, replace all the carpets.

For us, we struggle with making aesthetic decisions. So we are an interior designer for a couple hundred bucks to pick paint colors, carpet, counter tops, etc.
What is involved in replacing granite countertop? How much work is involved, how much inconvenience during the work? Would you replace the sink and disposal as well? Then it requires 2 different companies and coordinating the work involved. I just dread the mess and intrusion.
Basically, you (or a plumber) disconnects drains and faucets. You take things out of your drawers. The granite company removes the old countertops and puts in new ones. A new sink is usually provided. You (or a plumber) reconnect drains and faucets. It’s not too bad.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Cletus Davenport »

PinotGris wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:56 pm
Cletus Davenport wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:42 pm Buy the light fixtures you like. Hire an electrician to install them. Also refresh your outlets and face plates for a new look.

Do the same with plumbing fixtures.

Hire a counter company to redo your countertops.

Then get a painter to repaint everything, including possibly your cabinets and bathroom vanities.

Finally, replace all the carpets.

For us, we struggle with making aesthetic decisions. So we are an interior designer for a couple hundred bucks to pick paint colors, carpet, counter tops, etc.
What is involved in replacing granite countertop? How much work is involved, how much inconvenience during the work? Would you replace the sink and disposal as well? Then it requires 2 different companies and coordinating the work involved. I just dread the mess and intrusion.
Good question!

Where I live the counter top people also do the sink and disposal. For us, the actual amount of “down time” was about 3 hours. We got a new sink with the countertop but reused the disposal.

But don’t be surprised if the back splash gets damaged in the installation process.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

We tend to do a pretty good job procrastinating which has saved us lots of money. When we do make updates, we make changes. When carpets need replacing, we instead do a hardwood floor. We needed a leak in windows fixed and did an added lower wall, new windows and the exterior roof re-pitched to shed water and prevent future leaks. We had a solar greenhouse built onto the south side of the house. Windows were all foggy and the greenhouse got to 140 in the summer, heating through the doors and walls of the house. Since there was a foundation, we built onto it and extended our bedroom and added a small jacuzzi type tub, going to hard wood and tile flooring from carpet and cheap vinyl.

None of these projects were super expensive, but were tens of thousands of dollars. They also limited how long we had to put up with construction and we never moved out of the house during construction.

We do plan to redo a bathroom and I'd like to add an attached garage with a mud room in between.
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Epsilon Delta »

bendix wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:50 pm I bought a house that had a medium amount of wear and tear. Some issues here, some issues there. Fixed a number of them over the last couple of years. Some still remain. And I find myself unwilling to invest the time and the effort and make all these choices that go along with it. I`ll see how that goes but there´s a huge appeal to just buy a house that´s "ready" and doesnt need any of that for a good number of years.
When was the last time you moved? IMHO moving requires a huge investment of time, effort, money, and quite a few choices. Although it's hard to generalize some studies report moving is as stressful as getting a divorce.

There are tradesmen who make a living doing things like refreshing kitchens. At least some of them will do most of the work themselves but act as a general contractor and hire other trades for things they are not licensed for or don't think they can manage.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by finite_difference »

If it’s broke, fix it. If it’s dirty, clean it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Based on your list, I would paint, replace all carpets with hardwood, replace plumbing fixtures and lights, and otherwise stay on top of all leaks and safety issues. A good handyman should be able to handle all that. Check Costco for flooring.

No need to do a full gut remodel.
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gunny
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by gunny »

CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm What did the Bogleheads do in similar circumstances with their homes?
I did what I could myself (replacing light fixtures, painting, yard/landscape stuff), hired some other things out (e.g. water pump replacement), and some just left as is (like the kitchen faucet/sink) as anyone with a clue looking to buy an older home doesn't expect perfection and in fact may like the idea of replacing something with something else they like.

PS: remember it's not about recouping the money you put it. Basically, you won't, at least not directly. But the more you do, the more marketable your house is and the sooner you sell it.
Last edited by gunny on Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CascadiaSoonish
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by CascadiaSoonish »

finite_difference wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:31 pm If it’s broke, fix it. If it’s dirty, clean it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Well, a lot of that ends up being subjective, and the 'real' fixes can add up. Two specific examples: 20 years ago we sprung for a high-end Lacanche range in the kitchen. But the advantages of gas have faded, and a swap for an induction range wouldn't be a bad idea. And as for the wood floors, we have carpet upstairs because it's sitting on top of flooring glued down with an asbestos-based glue. Swapping to hardwoods is nontrivial.

The contractor we worked with back in '06 taught us that "while we're at it, might as well..." costs five figures every time you say it. He was right.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by ucla-engineer »

London wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:01 pm
PinotGris wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:56 pm

What is involved in replacing granite countertop? How much work is involved, how much inconvenience during the work? Would you replace the sink and disposal as well? Then it requires 2 different companies and coordinating the work involved. I just dread the mess and intrusion.
Basically, you (or a plumber) disconnects drains and faucets. You take things out of your drawers. The granite company removes the old countertops and puts in new ones. A new sink is usually provided. You (or a plumber) reconnect drains and faucets. It’s not too bad.
I would recommend swapping in new faucet/new garbage disposal at this point, rather than reconnecting the old hardware. Sometimes plumbing doesn't fit back together as well as needed when the threads are covered in calcification.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by gunny »

finite_difference wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:31 pm If it’s broke, fix it. If it’s dirty, clean it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
I was with you until that last part. :) Upgrading things, esp things that are very dated and/or worn can make a big diff. e.g. carpet - replacing it (before putting it up for sale at least) sounds like a no-brainer. Personally I'd go with berber carpet as it holds up much better.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Cyclesafe »

We bought new in 2000 and extensively remodeled ourselves from 2018-2020.

We tried to hire an integrated General, but they clearly were looking for spendthrifts who would not complain about shoddy work and low-grade materials and would endure sporadic/unplannable disruption for more than a year.

We had retired and figured that there was nothing we couldn't do if we took our time, which we had plenty of. Our fit and finish turned out far better than the professionals' and all of our materials were top drawer. And we also had to contend with fixing the original builder's hidden sloppy work.

But we wouldn't do it again. Life is just too short.

If we were going to move in five years, we would have instead done just necessary maintenance and leave it to the buyer to do what they wanted to a fixer-upper they got cheap. Alternatively, we would move out sooner if we couldn't stand living in the house any longer.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by quantAndHold »

This is the problem with doing everything all at once when you move in, and then not doing anything ever again. Eventually, you reach this critical mass of datedness and decrepitude, where everything needs to be gutted and redone again.

We bought a (then) 70 year old house in 1997. It had some wear and tear, but was basically livable. We made a five year plan, and did things bit by bit, finishing the original list in 2004. Some of it we did ourselves, some of it we hired out. Over the years since then, we’ve picked a couple of things every year and had them done. Doing it this way, there’s always something getting old, something brand new, but the basic state of the house is always livable and well maintained.

My recommendation would be to make a list and start getting things done. Then once the list is complete, don’t just let it start falling apart again.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by MathWizard »

We didn't let things go for 20 years,we upgraded and
maintained things as we went. Repairs/upgrades were
almost all DIY.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by mrsbetsy »

This is dependent on your market.

We had a whole bunch of deferred maintenance when we sold in 2023. Our market is bananas and it didn't matter. In fact, after a wildly wet winter, the house had 2 inches of water under it and needed deep french drains installed which would cost big bucks. Our realtor advised against doing anything, so I'd ask around what your market thinks about it.

Buyers didn't care. Affluent school district and we had more than 250 people come through open house one weekend and 16 offers above asking on Monday. We took the highest one, which was cash and were out in 30 days. We disclosed everything, but we live in an area with an intense housing shortage and lots of international money.

I'm glad we didn't spend one dime on anything because it wouldn't have mattered in the end.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by lunch_money »

CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm Twenty years, two kids, and several pets later the house is showing wear and tear.
Makes sense - those all wear on a house, and sometimes it's difficult to do projects with all that life going on
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm taking on a full-time job as a designer/GC or spending a fortune.

These are the normal options when a big scope of work needs to be done. It's always cheaper (and will usually get better work) if you are your own GC, but it takes a lot of time and effort to coordinate especially when many trades are needed for the project
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm We could throw money at more substantial renovations (we're not moving soon but expect to sell in 5-10 years)
That's a relatively long, open-ended time. If I was expecting to stay in a house that long, I'd want it to be something I'm happy about seeing everyday.
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm but we'd be unlikely to recoup much of that when we sell.
I've always agreed with the opinion that houses are expenses, not investments. I use the cost of renting as a baseline to compare to. If I can buy/renovate/maintain a house for equal or less than the cost of renting a house I'd be equally happy in, then I'm doing ok even if it doesn't maximize my money (e.g. by deferring maintenance or upgrades to the next owner). Focussing on recouping money is much more limiting in my experience. Similarly this approach helps me not splurge too much, either. It does require effort to track home expenditures (including taxes, interest, insurance, and repairs/renovations) separately.
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm piecemeal is high overhead and is hard to make it all work together.
I'm not sure I'm reading what you are intending - but I find houses with consistent design (period, finishes, etc) much less jarring (even if dated) than ones with a brand-new kitchen and ancient bathrooms, say - though this is very person-dependent. Likewise, when shopping we've usually looked for something needing a total gut (so we can do it the exact way we want it) or that was renovated to our taste/standard (which is hard to find). So again consistency seems good.
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:16 pm What did the Bogleheads do in similar circumstances with their homes?
Ours is more narrowly scoped, but we are 10 years out from our move-in gut-job. After deciding that we're likely staying here 10 more years we're going to do a few big-ticket items that haven't aged well (kitchen - cabinets were terrible quality the first time) and some major landscaping. Total cost will still be in line with renting for that horizon (much better, actually, with the way home prices have gone). It does hurt a bit to see the cash move from the brokerage account to 'disappear' into the house but again... it's an expense (like a car), not an investment (like VTI :happy)
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by beyou »

Pick a project each year that would provide the most value to you and your family and do just that.
Taking a break for another year gives me the energy to tackle the next project.
I really hate doing any home renovations whatsoever, for me it's like swallowing medicine.
But I find I can deal with it in small chunks if I must.
This works for me for all but the kitchen.
Really tough to lose your kitchen for many weeks or even months, I have yet to seriously consider that task but it's sorely needed.
If you have 2+ bathrooms, can renovate 1 or the other separately and at least have 1 working, not so with the kitchen.
But slowly everything else in the house is being refreshed, room by room, project by project.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by enad »

If your plumbing fixtures are made by Delta, you can (if you know or don't know the model number) call their 800 number for customer service and the rep can work with you to figure out what kind of model you have and send you all the necessary replacement parts. This may also be true for Moen and/or other fixtures (Google it). They had me send the pictures of under the sink (taken with the camera pointing to the underside of the fixtures) and the top side from the top and from an angle and were able to identify the model number and send the cartridge which was leaking but also the seal for the main spout and all the chrome including the aerator on the faucet. They did this for 7 fixtures in the house. All free, no charge. Can't beat that for standing behind a lifetime guarantee. If you do replace the valves for the toilets, sinks, kitchen, laundry, look at 1/4 turn ball valves with the metal handles. Get the kind that lets you remove the hose from the ball valve to the tank or ball valve to the fixtures (not the integrated kind). Whether you do the plumbing repairs yourself or hire someone to, not having to pay for fixtures which you get for free can save you money.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by gotoparks »

I do things one project at a time. I've had good luck with hiring contractors with Angie and also my church bulletin. It depends on your area if it will pay off. In my area, it pays off to fix up the house. My first place sold for 40K above list in one weekend, in a down market. It looked like a model home. I once redid my kitchen using Lowes. The lady was very helpful in helping me pick out a countertop and cabinets. I went for the moderate-cost things, not the cheapest.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

beyou wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:27 am Pick a project each year that would provide the most value to you and your family and do just that.
We did exactly that. We bought a 1924 townhouse and did one room a year. We took our time and learned that we could do much of the work as well as most handymen. The skills one keeps for the rest of his/her life. Think of it as a hobby or exercise or just another form of investing/saving.

The kitchen was a challenge, but even there we lucked out. We found a local family kitchen design store which let us do the demolition which saved us money. Someone wanted the old kitchen cabinets and took those for their garage and laundry room.

I learned that for electrical, heating/cooling, plumbing I could just use a regional HVAC company. Thus I could request those technicians I preferred over the years. For one off things, those trades know they are dependent on small jobs so that wasn't an issue (such as reglazing a tub).
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by dogagility »

This Boglehead couple (spouse and I) would do all of those tasks ourselves since the each individual tasks on the list (except installing kitchen countertops and putting down carpet, perhaps) can easily be accomplished by a mobile middling DIYer.

If you don't want to DIY and don't want to select the changes, then you're going to need to pay for a designer and pay somebody to do the work for you. Most of these tasks are something a competent "handyman" could do. Perhaps find one of those? Installing carpet and kitchen countertops can be done by going to a big box home center or specialized store and asking for installation to be included in the price.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by ClevrChico »

Kids and pets really do a number on a house. (Along with houseplants.)

My parents would refresh one room/year in their house. By the time they moved out, most rooms had been through two refreshes. I'm on a similar schedule with my house, trying to do at least once project/year.

Instead of a full repaint, it's amazing what a little cleanup and touch-up can accomplish. I've had a lot of success with laundry stain remover for cleaning wall stains.

If you live in a large city, there may be grants available for exterior work to help keep things in budget.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by snackdog »

Once a house gets to certain level of wear, it doesn't really wear any further. Just keep everything running (no pluming leaks or sparking electricity) then do a superficial refresh (paint, carpets) before you sell in as little as five years. Then, buy something fabulous that you love.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

We took really good care of our home and never allowed things to get banged up and worn out. When we sold it last year one comment after the next was how great the condition it was in. It sold in a day for full asking. My kid was the real estate agent so I have no reason to doubt that the comments were reported accurately.

These sorts of quandaries can be eliminated by not living hard on your stuff, automobiles included. Once it’s allowed to happen it’s really hard and expensive to undo. I don’t even know what to suggest.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by MikeG62 »

I would "nibble away at it with smaller projects where you manage the contractors yourselves".

It might be a bit of a pain, but I don't see this being hard to make "work together". You've got discrete projects there. A handyman can do a bunch supplemented with individual contractors (or vendors) as needed for others.

I would not do a "to the studs" renovation or anything close to that.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by MrBobcat »

Another vote to pick a project at a time and spread it out. Hire tasks when necessary, do the minor stuff, painting, changing out faucets, replacing light fixtures etc yourself if so inclined.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by skp »

We have kept our house up as far as the mechanical stuff. We like energy efficiency. We have a top of the line heat pump and hot water heater. Replaced our roof with a metal one, put in good double and a few triple pane new windows.
But not so good with the interior. We finally are replacing things gradually. We had really worn carpet. I debated hardwood but I LIKE carpet. I know others don’t but I decided I was getting what I like.
We redid our kitchen with what we like. We redid 2 bathrooms to our taste.
I’m planning on living in this house until I can’t. I’m getting what I want. I’m not fixing things for a potential new buyer,
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by rogue_economist »

If everything is worn out after 20 years then poor quality materials and workmanship, not time, is the problem.

My approach would be to make a master plan for refitting and finishing and implement it over time. Replace worn or wearing materials with better quality. I would DIY where possible to get better results and lower costs.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by stan1 »

I would start at the beginning. Walk the house with your spouse and a friend who is handy, if available. Make a list. As you see the list for each room you'll start to get an idea of what you can easily do yourself, what you need to hire someone for, and what is starting to get into a full remodel. It's a place to start. For each item on the list add the next level of detail with a bullets on what your next steps are. Before you know it a lot of work will be done. Some people are good at doing this mentally, others like to work from a plan. This is an easy way to get a plan, and break down a complex task into something with actionable steps.

Think of the house like a set of Russian nesting dolls: work inside out. You don't want to paint a wall then tear it up a month later because you want to do some electrical work. While you can paint a ceiling after you put in new carpet, it might cost you less and you might have less chance of getting paint drops on the carpet if you paint the ceiling before you install new carpet. There's some common sense logic to it.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by Kenkat »

beyou wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:27 am Pick a project each year that would provide the most value to you and your family and do just that.
Taking a break for another year gives me the energy to tackle the next project.
We built our house new in 1998 and this is the approach we have taken, primarily pushed by my wife who likes to keep things up to date and looking new. I tend to be more resistant to updating but it is important to her and I end up admitting in the end that it was a major improvement and worth it. Maybe one positive to me dragging it out a bit is it gives some time to make sure what we really want from the various projects.

We’ve done a combination of what I would call a “light renovation” and more “major” renovations. All of the rooms have gotten new paint and carpet at least once, sometimes new light fixtures. Those are the light / refresh types of projects.

Then we’ve done a major renovation of the main bath that gets the most use. Major renovation of the kitchen with new countertops, reconfigured the island in the kitchen (two level to one level and enlarged), new appliances and new sink and faucet. I did a semi-custom built in cabinet wall in the foyer and we added new lighting and area carpet. New half bath in the basement. Basically, we just went through each room over time and decided what we wanted it to become. We did some work ourselves and had contractors do the more major stuff.

While we probably won’t get the full amount paid when we eventually sell, at least we get to enjoy it while we are there.
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by bombcar »

Some things have people specialized in just that aspect (carpet replacement, painting, kitchen appliance swap).

I bet if you found an induction oven you wanted, and told them you need an outlet for it, they'd recommend someone to drop the line.

And those contractors usually know other contractors that do similar "smaller jobs" where they can be in and out in a day or two.

Do only the things that YOU want and will notice (the oven sounds like a winner). Don't bother with things you don't care about unless it's really worn out.

If your house is underutilized you could empty one room a year and work on painting/refreshing it, in a few years everything would "feel new" even if not changed much.
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turtlebug
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Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by turtlebug »

I suggest nibbling away at small projects over the next few years (as you get to them and on your own time) and putting off any major renovations until you get within 1-2 years of when you intend to sell.
fasteddie911
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:13 pm

Re: House is getting pretty worn, considering options. What did you do?

Post by fasteddie911 »

5yrs isn't that long from now. I'd consider doing nothing until you sell, or at most just addressing the things that really bother you. Unless all of it really bothers you.
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