Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
[2021 thread bumped in 2023 --admin LadyGeek]
I have just finished watching the the latest Bogleheads Speaker Series video. It featured Kara Beth Vance from Timothy Financial Counsel. After looking at their website I am considering using their services for a second set of eyes to give me assurances on such things as when my wife can retire, when to take social security, how to draw down down our portfolio in retirement and so forth. I believe I have a good grasp of these issues based on this wonderful community but I think it would be worth 5k or so for a professional to verify. Has anyone used their services?
I have just finished watching the the latest Bogleheads Speaker Series video. It featured Kara Beth Vance from Timothy Financial Counsel. After looking at their website I am considering using their services for a second set of eyes to give me assurances on such things as when my wife can retire, when to take social security, how to draw down down our portfolio in retirement and so forth. I believe I have a good grasp of these issues based on this wonderful community but I think it would be worth 5k or so for a professional to verify. Has anyone used their services?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I haven't used Timothy services, but here is some information from ADV, part 2A
https://timothyfinancial.com/wp-content ... 190801.pdf
It's not unusual for a person approaching retirement to want some professional advise. Feels like walking on a tightrope without a net below, but that feeling goes away quickly after leaving the regular income job as long as you can manage a max 4% withdrawal rate. Bogleheads can help you, but if you would have more confidence after a professional review, I guess the expense is worth it.
If you want to take a shot at Boglehead recommendations (free) post according to this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
I would suggest you do this so you have some groundwork for Timothy Financial recommendations.
Paul
https://timothyfinancial.com/wp-content ... 190801.pdf
It's not unusual for a person approaching retirement to want some professional advise. Feels like walking on a tightrope without a net below, but that feeling goes away quickly after leaving the regular income job as long as you can manage a max 4% withdrawal rate. Bogleheads can help you, but if you would have more confidence after a professional review, I guess the expense is worth it.
If you want to take a shot at Boglehead recommendations (free) post according to this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
I would suggest you do this so you have some groundwork for Timothy Financial recommendations.
Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
$5,000 seems a bit steep for an analysis.
Doesn't PlanVision do this for a few hundred bucks?
See this thread, or search Silk McCue's posts, as I understand he's a loyal customer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=344478
Regards,
Doesn't PlanVision do this for a few hundred bucks?
See this thread, or search Silk McCue's posts, as I understand he's a loyal customer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=344478
Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Rick Ferri is fantastic to work with.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
If you have a million in assets and get involved with organizations that take 2% in various fees per year that is 20k per year.retired@50 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:40 pm $5,000 seems a bit steep for an analysis.
Doesn't PlanVision do this for a few hundred bucks?
See this thread, or search Silk McCue's posts, as I understand he's a loyal customer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=344478
Regards,
5k isn’t as expensive as some high er funds plus 1% AUM organizations.
John Bogle: "It's amazing how difficult it is for a man to understand something if he's paid a small fortune not to understand it."
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I'm well aware of the ongoing cost of AUM arrangements.Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:00 pm 5k isn’t as expensive as some high er funds plus 1% AUM organizations.
I got the impression that the $5,000 was for a "one-time" look at someone's finances, not an ongoing relationship.
Of course, there's always the free model of using the portfolio review here on Bogleheads.
Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I've used both Timothy Financial (Michael Thrasher) and PlanVision. I had an analysis by Timothy Financial before I found Bogleheads (I actually e-mailed Christine Benz from Morningstar after watching some of her videos and she kindly gave me a name or two of an hourly firm including TF). Michael was great and did a detailed analysis using eMoney--I liked that he was a CFP and CPA. After I found Bogleheads I kept learning and figured I'd give PlanVision a try....Mark Zoril (and Jason Lynch) were great and also used eMoney.
I'm a year or two from retiring but probably will have TF give a once over again before I pull the plug. PlanVision is very cheap and Mark does a great job for the cost but TF did a deeper dive (thus the cost)--including getting copies of tax returns, catching that I had missed part of an employer match by maxing our my 401K too early in the year, etc. Some people can run Firecalc and feel comfortable and others need to get more into the weeds--I think it all comes down to personality and comfort level. I'm one that feels more comfortable talking with someone and I would not hesitate to pay $5K for a check up before you retire. Having said all this I think Mark/PlanVision could fit the bill if cost is a driver for you--I just didn't want to take too much of Mark's time knowing I was paying him very little. I'm a believer of learning yourself but also getting a second option from an hourly/fiduciary financial advisor--it is also nice to have a relationship with an hourly advisor so as an issue comes up you can bounce it off that person. TM has an "on the clock" option so you are billed hourly.
Good luck and feel free to PM if you want more info!
I'm a year or two from retiring but probably will have TF give a once over again before I pull the plug. PlanVision is very cheap and Mark does a great job for the cost but TF did a deeper dive (thus the cost)--including getting copies of tax returns, catching that I had missed part of an employer match by maxing our my 401K too early in the year, etc. Some people can run Firecalc and feel comfortable and others need to get more into the weeds--I think it all comes down to personality and comfort level. I'm one that feels more comfortable talking with someone and I would not hesitate to pay $5K for a check up before you retire. Having said all this I think Mark/PlanVision could fit the bill if cost is a driver for you--I just didn't want to take too much of Mark's time knowing I was paying him very little. I'm a believer of learning yourself but also getting a second option from an hourly/fiduciary financial advisor--it is also nice to have a relationship with an hourly advisor so as an issue comes up you can bounce it off that person. TM has an "on the clock" option so you are billed hourly.
Good luck and feel free to PM if you want more info!

Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
$5,000 is very pricey and you will likely get the same eMoney report. There is a presentation on PlanVision where they discuss what they do.retired@50 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:40 pm $5,000 seems a bit steep for an analysis.
Doesn't PlanVision do this for a few hundred bucks?
See this thread, or search Silk McCue's posts, as I understand he's a loyal customer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=344478
Regards,
https://planvisionmn.com/
The recording from our June 22nd PlanVision/eMoney demo with Mark Zoril and Jason Lynch is now available here... https://www.bogleheads.org/blog/portfol ... entations/
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I like your suggestion or the Timothy suggestion a lot more than the ongoing AUM approach.retired@50 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:13 pmI'm well aware of the ongoing cost of AUM arrangements.Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:00 pm 5k isn’t as expensive as some high er funds plus 1% AUM organizations.
I got the impression that the $5,000 was for a "one-time" look at someone's finances, not an ongoing relationship.
Of course, there's always the free model of using the portfolio review here on Bogleheads.
Regards,
John Bogle: "It's amazing how difficult it is for a man to understand something if he's paid a small fortune not to understand it."
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
OP here. Regarding my estimate of 5k for a review….according to their website I would fall into their Level Two category which would be between $3600 and $7500. I would assume I would be on the lower end of the scale because my portfolio is in 90% tax deferred, modeled after a 3 fund portfolio, and to me fairly straight forward.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
That is a complete rip off.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Great video. Thanks for sharing.Wiggums wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:14 am$5,000 is very pricey and you will likely get the same eMoney report. There is a presentation on PlanVision where they discuss what they do.retired@50 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:40 pm $5,000 seems a bit steep for an analysis.
Doesn't PlanVision do this for a few hundred bucks?
See this thread, or search Silk McCue's posts, as I understand he's a loyal customer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=344478
Regards,
https://planvisionmn.com/
The recording from our June 22nd PlanVision/eMoney demo with Mark Zoril and Jason Lynch is now available here... https://www.bogleheads.org/blog/portfol ... entations/
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
What exactly are you hoping they advise on? That seems like a really simple structure where your primary issue is sustainability (do you have enough), asset allocation, and a Roth conversion analysis. If you’d like a professional review, you can get one for far less than 5k.Tonygis wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:09 pm OP here. Regarding my estimate of 5k for a review….according to their website I would fall into their Level Two category which would be between $3600 and $7500. I would assume I would be on the lower end of the scale because my portfolio is in 90% tax deferred, modeled after a 3 fund portfolio, and to me fairly straight forward.
If you had trusts, an extremely large asset base, owned your own company, etc., the cost would probably be worth it.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I have been talking to Timothy Financial and considering them to do a detailed financial plan converting my assets to income producing. But they want to charge me between $16k and $20k.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
You registered for this forum just to post this? I never heard of it until this thread.Hshullo wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:41 pm I have been talking to Timothy Financial and considering them to do a detailed financial plan converting my assets to income producing. But they want to charge me between $16k and $20k.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Welcome to the forum, Hshullo,
Timothy sounds too expensive. Instead, read these links on Boglehead philosophy.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy
Getting started
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Paul
Timothy sounds too expensive. Instead, read these links on Boglehead philosophy.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy
Getting started
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Timothy may sound too expensive but look at it a different way for someone who does not want to be one of us, i.e., someone who has interest in self-managing all aspects of their financial life.pkcrafter wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:41 am Welcome to the forum, Hshullo,
Timothy sounds too expensive. Instead, read these links on Boglehead philosophy.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy
Getting started
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Paul
A choice could be going with someone who charges 1% per year. On $1,000,000 that is $10,000. After five years they have been paid $50,000.
The bulk of their work is going to take place in year one where they have initial meetings and spend time repositioning the portfolio they acquired to manage. After then there is some fine tuning on their part but not much time involved.
Compare that to what would be paid to Timothy or any other who charges a far reduced fee strictly to manage the investments or someone who charges by the hour.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Why should someone pay tens of thousands when they can pay Mark Zoril $76 or whatever he charges?vnatale wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:38 pmTimothy may sound too expensive but look at it a different way for someone who does not want to be one of us, i.e., someone who has interest in self-managing all aspects of their financial life.pkcrafter wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:41 am Welcome to the forum, Hshullo,
Timothy sounds too expensive. Instead, read these links on Boglehead philosophy.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy
Getting started
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Paul
A choice could be going with someone who charges 1% per year. On $1,000,000 that is $10,000. After five years they have been paid $50,000.
The bulk of their work is going to take place in year one where they have initial meetings and spend time repositioning the portfolio they acquired to manage. After then there is some fine tuning on their part but not much time involved.
Compare that to what would be paid to Timothy or any other who charges a far reduced fee strictly to manage the investments or someone who charges by the hour.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Because of this which was written above?tj wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:30 pmWhy should someone pay tens of thousands when they can pay Mark Zoril $76 or whatever he charges?vnatale wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:38 pmTimothy may sound too expensive but look at it a different way for someone who does not want to be one of us, i.e., someone who has interest in self-managing all aspects of their financial life.pkcrafter wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:41 am Welcome to the forum, Hshullo,
Timothy sounds too expensive. Instead, read these links on Boglehead philosophy.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy
Getting started
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Paul
A choice could be going with someone who charges 1% per year. On $1,000,000 that is $10,000. After five years they have been paid $50,000.
The bulk of their work is going to take place in year one where they have initial meetings and spend time repositioning the portfolio they acquired to manage. After then there is some fine tuning on their part but not much time involved.
Compare that to what would be paid to Timothy or any other who charges a far reduced fee strictly to manage the investments or someone who charges by the hour.
'PlanVision is very cheap and Mark does a great job for the cost but TF did a deeper dive (thus the cost)--including getting copies of tax returns, catching that I had missed part of an employer match by maxing our my 401K too early in the year, etc. Some people can run Firecalc and feel comfortable and others need to get more into the weeds--I think it all comes down to personality and comfort level. I'm one that feels more comfortable talking with someone and I would not hesitate to pay $5K for a check up before you retire."
Also, I cannot imagine you get much from paying someone $76.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
You shouldn't have to pay someone thousands of dollars to realize you aren't maximizing your 5% match.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
What should an hourly financial planner be able to charge per hour or per plan? Part of the reason I suspect the AUM model is still so pervasive is advisors feel they cant earn a living charging for their time.
After reviewing Timothy Financial Counsel’s website, clearly they must be doing well to have the staff they do (never seen an hourly firm this big after reviewing advisors from the the Garrett Planning Network for my parents).
Bogleheads obviously skew DIY but if we assume the majority of people will want some level of guidance with their finances, and that hourly is preferable to AUM, what is a fair price to pay?
After reviewing Timothy Financial Counsel’s website, clearly they must be doing well to have the staff they do (never seen an hourly firm this big after reviewing advisors from the the Garrett Planning Network for my parents).
Bogleheads obviously skew DIY but if we assume the majority of people will want some level of guidance with their finances, and that hourly is preferable to AUM, what is a fair price to pay?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Consult the list @ https://adviceonlyfinancial.com/silent cal wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:54 pm What should an hourly financial planner be able to charge per hour or per plan? Part of the reason I suspect the AUM model is still so pervasive is advisors feel they cant earn a living charging for their time.
After reviewing Timothy Financial Counsel’s website, clearly they must be doing well to have the staff they do (never seen an hourly firm this big after reviewing advisors from the the Garrett Planning Network for my parents).
Bogleheads obviously skew DIY but if we assume the majority of people will want some level of guidance with their finances, and that hourly is preferable to AUM, what is a fair price to pay?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I’m essentially a DYI investor. But my wife and I recently engaged a planner to get an outside perspective on where we stand five years into retirement. I did lots of research to find a local, hourly, fee-only planner we could talk with in person (not via Zoom) whose investment approach was compatible with ours. The one we worked with was $200 an hour and spent about 10 hours meeting with us and writing a very helpful report focused specifically on the concerns and questions we wanted her to address. It was money well spent. Timothy Financial was on our list of finalists, but we felt their fee was too high, and we got the impression that they wanted to do a comprehensive plan, not a focused one.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
In case anyone’s wondering the average hourly rate on this website is a few bucks over $250/hr. That charts with Michael Kitces’ fee study https://www.kitces.com/wp-content/uplo ... 2023-1.pdftj wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:10 pmConsult the list @ https://adviceonlyfinancial.com/silent cal wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:54 pm What should an hourly financial planner be able to charge per hour or per plan? Part of the reason I suspect the AUM model is still so pervasive is advisors feel they cant earn a living charging for their time.
After reviewing Timothy Financial Counsel’s website, clearly they must be doing well to have the staff they do (never seen an hourly firm this big after reviewing advisors from the the Garrett Planning Network for my parents).
Bogleheads obviously skew DIY but if we assume the majority of people will want some level of guidance with their finances, and that hourly is preferable to AUM, what is a fair price to pay?
Based on the Timothy Financial Counsel website it appears they focus a lot on higher complexity financial planning cases which might be why they charge more. I think $250/hr is a reasonable assumption for most hourly planners with most plans taking somewhere between 10-20 hours per the Kitces report above (and presumably any reviews would be less time).
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I think it might be because no matter how wonderfully it smells, you cannot sell a $2 bottle of perfume.tj wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:30 pm
Why should someone pay tens of thousands when they can pay Mark Zoril $76 or whatever he charges?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
OTOH, when an employer does not have a "True up" clause, then those diligent folks who max out 401(k) early in the year will miss out on some part of a match. The CEO of my spouse's employer did not realize this was happening to them. But then again ....tj wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:34 pm You shouldn't have to pay someone thousands of dollars to realize you aren't maximizing your 5% match.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Hi and thank you for your post. I really do want a broad and comprehensive plan. I may still initially work with Timothy Financial to start. But could you share the name / contact information for your planner you choose. Thank youaquinas wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:29 pm I’m essentially a DYI investor. But my wife and I recently engaged a planner to get an outside perspective on where we stand five years into retirement. I did lots of research to find a local, hourly, fee-only planner we could talk with in person (not via Zoom) whose investment approach was compatible with ours. The one we worked with was $200 an hour and spent about 10 hours meeting with us and writing a very helpful report focused specifically on the concerns and questions we wanted her to address. It was money well spent. Timothy Financial was on our list of finalists, but we felt their fee was too high, and we got the impression that they wanted to do a comprehensive plan, not a focused one.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I understand the “party line “ is to avoid using a financial advisor and avoid the attending cost. Personally speaking, there is good reason to use a financial advisor. I’ve been using a financial advisor for 30 plus years. Usually when I say that I get a question about how much money it costs.TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:09 amI think it might be because no matter how wonderfully it smells, you cannot sell a $2 bottle of perfume.tj wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:30 pm
Why should someone pay tens of thousands when they can pay Mark Zoril $76 or whatever he charges?
The cost is justified by the benefits. OP should consider the pros as well as the cost there are many pros. Not dollars and cents but real life occurrences can require someone other than the OP to help make financial decisions. Dementia, cancer, anything that causes sudden loss of capacity or mental acuity can lead to poor judgment by the person making the financial decisions. These events are not always predictable. Perhaps not noticed until some time has passed during which poor decisions have already been made. We don’t always get a fair warning. And we don’t always get the idea that we need outside help.
Bottom line, cost may too narrow an element to drive this decision.
HVAC
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I'm a longtime DIY'er, but am on the "no obligation introductory session" waitlist for prospective clients at Timothy Financial (current wait times are approx six months). As I approach retirement, I'd like to get a one-time portfolio evaluation and spending plan that I can execute, which includes decumulation strategies and attention to tax efficiency for withdrawals/income production. I listened to the CEO/Founder of Timothy being interviewed on Michael Kitces' podcast recently, and was impressed enough to take a closer look at them.
To get on Timothy's waitlist, I had to answer a short questionnaire with general information about my profession, assets, etc. Following the introductory session, I'm scheduled to receive a proposed engagement with a fixed cost based on Timothy's applicable hourly rate. I'll report back here after that with my thoughts.
FWIW I'm also test driving a subscription to New Retirement.
To get on Timothy's waitlist, I had to answer a short questionnaire with general information about my profession, assets, etc. Following the introductory session, I'm scheduled to receive a proposed engagement with a fixed cost based on Timothy's applicable hourly rate. I'll report back here after that with my thoughts.
FWIW I'm also test driving a subscription to New Retirement.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
The initial fee is $299 for the first year, and then $8/month after that, but you can cancel at any time. I'm very happy with Planvision. I can email Mark at any time for a more focused sanity check on various aspects of our plan, and he has always responded quickly. That is the part I most appreciate, the ability to continually ask questions on various topics.TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:09 amI think it might be because no matter how wonderfully it smells, you cannot sell a $2 bottle of perfume.tj wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:30 pm
Why should someone pay tens of thousands when they can pay Mark Zoril $76 or whatever he charges?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
UPDATE:ksb44 wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:05 pm I'm a longtime DIY'er, but am on the "no obligation introductory session" waitlist for prospective clients at Timothy Financial (current wait times are approx six months). As I approach retirement, I'd like to get a one-time portfolio evaluation and spending plan that I can execute, which includes decumulation strategies and attention to tax efficiency for withdrawals/income production. I listened to the CEO/Founder of Timothy being interviewed on Michael Kitces' podcast recently, and was impressed enough to take a closer look at them.
To get on Timothy's waitlist, I had to answer a short questionnaire with general information about my profession, assets, etc. Following the introductory session, I'm scheduled to receive a proposed engagement with a fixed cost based on Timothy's applicable hourly rate. I'll report back here after that with my thoughts.
FWIW I'm also test driving a subscription to New Retirement.
This week I got an email from Timothy Financial advising that I'm off the waitlist and they are ready to proceed with my introductory session. They requested copies of the usual documents (account statements, last year's tax return, an annual spending summary, etc.) in order to prepare. I submitted those via their secure portal and I'll meet with an assigned advisor in November. I'll report back here with my impressions afterward.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
UPDATE II:
I had my no-cost introductory 1 hour meeting with an advisor at Timothy Financial this week. I was assigned to a Tier III CFP (they have five tiers of service, to which clients are assigned based on the complexity of their needs). Hourly rates rise with complexity/tier as well, as you would expect. Since I'm a DIY'er looking for a retirement launch plan, and have been using an hourly planner for general advice over the last 15 years, the conversation was more about confirming my expectations for a fee-only engagement than anything else. At the conclusion, I was given a firm 23 hour quote for a comprehensive retirement decumulation and tax management plan. That quote doesn't include the plan presentation meeting, which is estimated to take 1-2 hours. At $350/hr, the total one-time cost will be $8,750. 60% up front and a contract is required to begin.
I had my no-cost introductory 1 hour meeting with an advisor at Timothy Financial this week. I was assigned to a Tier III CFP (they have five tiers of service, to which clients are assigned based on the complexity of their needs). Hourly rates rise with complexity/tier as well, as you would expect. Since I'm a DIY'er looking for a retirement launch plan, and have been using an hourly planner for general advice over the last 15 years, the conversation was more about confirming my expectations for a fee-only engagement than anything else. At the conclusion, I was given a firm 23 hour quote for a comprehensive retirement decumulation and tax management plan. That quote doesn't include the plan presentation meeting, which is estimated to take 1-2 hours. At $350/hr, the total one-time cost will be $8,750. 60% up front and a contract is required to begin.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
If you use Schwab, I’d talk to them first. In the past 10 years, I’ve had 2 in depth financial plans done by them and had them review all of our estate plans with an impressive estate attorney. Not sure that it’s worth the 5K+ that you’re quoted, but I always benefit from an independent assessment, even if I don’t follow suggestions.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
If you barely have 25x a great plan will be way more expensive. If you have 50x no plan is necessary!
Fidelity free analysis does quite a good job. Depending upon your assets at fidelity you can get a person to talk. You don’t have to get roped in with AUM model at Fidelity
Personally the planners would be useful to put spouse’s mind at ease. Everything else is window dressing. One either has (more than) enough or not enough. No plan is going to let you go from later to former
Fidelity free analysis does quite a good job. Depending upon your assets at fidelity you can get a person to talk. You don’t have to get roped in with AUM model at Fidelity
Personally the planners would be useful to put spouse’s mind at ease. Everything else is window dressing. One either has (more than) enough or not enough. No plan is going to let you go from later to former
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
For me, it's about using an hourly professional to validate/stress-test my own assumptions and planning. I'll be using New Retirement/Boldin in parallel, and though everything is at Vanguard, which of course offers their own inexpensive PAS solution, I want a fully-independent co-pilot as I head into retirement. My investible assets are 25% pre-tax/75% after-tax, and I'm in California, so taxes take on something of an outsized role in my situation. And like everyone else, I want to understand the potential impact of sequence risk on my plan before I start drawing down. Are two heads better than one, especially when that second "head" costs almost $9k? TBD.
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Looking forward to your updates …..ksb44 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:26 pm UPDATE II:
I had my no-cost introductory 1 hour meeting with an advisor at Timothy Financial this week. I was assigned to a Tier III CFP (they have five tiers of service, to which clients are assigned based on the complexity of their needs). Hourly rates rise with complexity/tier as well, as you would expect. Since I'm a DIY'er looking for a retirement launch plan, and have been using an hourly planner for general advice over the last 15 years, the conversation was more about confirming my expectations for a fee-only engagement than anything else. At the conclusion, I was given a firm 23 hour quote for a comprehensive retirement decumulation and tax management plan. That quote doesn't include the plan presentation meeting, which is estimated to take 1-2 hours. At $350/hr, the total one-time cost will be $8,750. 60% up front and a contract is required to begin.
I did the Waitlist and Interview but was surprised that they would not provide me a sample plan so I could understand the type and output if their analysis. What they said, was every plan was different and they didn’t have a sample to share.
WoodSpinner
Last edited by WoodSpinner on Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
WoodSpinner
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Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
This thread should have two sub threads. One for accumulation responses and one for those retiring and decumulating. Granted that there are overlap situations.
I’ve often wondered, in other threads, where is the author coming from.
I’ve often wondered, in other threads, where is the author coming from.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I'm not a timothy client. VG PAS is the way to go.
westpac
I'm not a timothy client. VG PAS is the way to go.
westpac
Still on Patrol.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
UPDATE III
I reviewed and executed Timothy Financial's client service agreement over the weekend, which was a fairly simple and straightforward engagement contract. It was appropriately tailored to my specific situation: a one-time engagement that will produce a pre-retirement investment portfolio analysis and retirement plan (including decumulation, cash flow, and tax mitigation). Expressly excluded from the engagement are risk management (insurance) and estate planning. The CSA includes the typical client and firm representations and disclosures you'd expect for a fee-only fiduciary firm, but in keeping with the simplicity of a one-time engagement, it's only three pages in length. Attached were Timothy Financial's Forms ADV and CRS, both required disclosures.
As for fees, they were as as represented in our initial meeting. I've been assigned to a Tier 3 financial advisor at $350/hr and the CSA includes a charge for 23 hours, with 60% ($4,830) required up front. Interestingly, the CSA also discloses the current hourly rates for more complex Tier 4 ($450) and Tier 5 ($800) engagements. I was told during my initial meeting that the firm's hourly rates will be increasing in 2025 ($375/hr for Tier 3).
I'll provide another update once I have received and reviewed the plan, probably sometime in mid-January.
I reviewed and executed Timothy Financial's client service agreement over the weekend, which was a fairly simple and straightforward engagement contract. It was appropriately tailored to my specific situation: a one-time engagement that will produce a pre-retirement investment portfolio analysis and retirement plan (including decumulation, cash flow, and tax mitigation). Expressly excluded from the engagement are risk management (insurance) and estate planning. The CSA includes the typical client and firm representations and disclosures you'd expect for a fee-only fiduciary firm, but in keeping with the simplicity of a one-time engagement, it's only three pages in length. Attached were Timothy Financial's Forms ADV and CRS, both required disclosures.
As for fees, they were as as represented in our initial meeting. I've been assigned to a Tier 3 financial advisor at $350/hr and the CSA includes a charge for 23 hours, with 60% ($4,830) required up front. Interestingly, the CSA also discloses the current hourly rates for more complex Tier 4 ($450) and Tier 5 ($800) engagements. I was told during my initial meeting that the firm's hourly rates will be increasing in 2025 ($375/hr for Tier 3).
I'll provide another update once I have received and reviewed the plan, probably sometime in mid-January.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
UPDATE IV
Had a mid-course meeting with our Timothy Financial advisor last week to review and confirm our expectations/assumptions/risk tolerances prior to TF finalizing our DIY pre-retirement investment and post-retirement decumulation plans. We also discussed the appropriate level of exposure to international equities, whether we have any appetite for alternative investments, and a few other guideposts for TF to use in completing the analysis of our situation and calibrating their final set of recommendations. We have a final, two-hour meeting scheduled for the week of February 10 at which time TF's recommendations and DIY plans will be presented.
I will update you all again after that final meeting.
Had a mid-course meeting with our Timothy Financial advisor last week to review and confirm our expectations/assumptions/risk tolerances prior to TF finalizing our DIY pre-retirement investment and post-retirement decumulation plans. We also discussed the appropriate level of exposure to international equities, whether we have any appetite for alternative investments, and a few other guideposts for TF to use in completing the analysis of our situation and calibrating their final set of recommendations. We have a final, two-hour meeting scheduled for the week of February 10 at which time TF's recommendations and DIY plans will be presented.
I will update you all again after that final meeting.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
I appreciate the ongoing updates.ksb44 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:01 pm UPDATE IV
Had a mid-course meeting with our Timothy Financial advisor last week to review and confirm our expectations/assumptions/risk tolerances prior to TF finalizing our DIY pre-retirement investment and post-retirement decumulation plans. We also discussed the appropriate level of exposure to international equities, whether we have any appetite for alternative investments, and a few other guideposts for TF to use in completing the analysis of our situation and calibrating their final set of recommendations. We have a final, two-hour meeting scheduled for the week of February 10 at which time TF's recommendations and DIY plans will be presented.
I will update you all again after that final meeting.
I wonder about "appropriate level of exposure to international equities" though, or anything similar to that. What considerations are going into determining an "appropriate level"?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
TF's "international equities" question was designed to gauge our receptiveness to increasing our exposure to that general asset class. The advisor thinks we're a bit overweight in US equities and believes we could benefit from reallocating some of that US equity exposure to international. TF is presenting it as a straightforward diversification concern. Of course, the devil is in the details, so we'll have to wait and see what TF proposes as part of their final recommendation. I'll include a summary overview of our "current" vs. the "TF proposed" investment portfolios after our final meeting in ten days.tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:59 pmI appreciate the ongoing updates.ksb44 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:01 pm UPDATE IV
Had a mid-course meeting with our Timothy Financial advisor last week to review and confirm our expectations/assumptions/risk tolerances prior to TF finalizing our DIY pre-retirement investment and post-retirement decumulation plans. We also discussed the appropriate level of exposure to international equities, whether we have any appetite for alternative investments, and a few other guideposts for TF to use in completing the analysis of our situation and calibrating their final set of recommendations. We have a final, two-hour meeting scheduled for the week of February 10 at which time TF's recommendations and DIY plans will be presented.
I will update you all again after that final meeting.
I wonder about "appropriate level of exposure to international equities" though, or anything similar to that. What considerations are going into determining an "appropriate level"?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Thanks; it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.ksb44 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:42 pmTF's "international equities" question was designed to gauge our receptiveness to increasing our exposure to that general asset class. The advisor thinks we're a bit overweight in US equities and believes we could benefit from reallocating some of that US equity exposure to international. TF is presenting it as a straightforward diversification concern. Of course, the devil is in the details, so we'll have to wait and see what TF proposes as part of their final recommendation. I'll include a summary overview of our "current" vs. the "TF proposed" investment portfolios after our final meeting in ten days.tibbitts wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:59 pm
I appreciate the ongoing updates.
I wonder about "appropriate level of exposure to international equities" though, or anything similar to that. What considerations are going into determining an "appropriate level"?
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
Enjoying the updates on Timothy.
Have they done any work on estate planning subjects for you? Curious how strong they are on the various advanced planning strategies, as it would be nice to have a 2nd opinion on some of the strategies our estate attorney has implemented.
Have they done any work on estate planning subjects for you? Curious how strong they are on the various advanced planning strategies, as it would be nice to have a 2nd opinion on some of the strategies our estate attorney has implemented.
Re: Any clients of Timothy Financial Counsel out there?
No estate planning work per se, just the investment/retirement/decumulation/tax advisory work. We've had our trust/estate planning documents prepared and periodically updated by a local attorney, but our situation is relatively simple with no heirs or legacy concerns (other than designating a couple of charities as beneficiaries of any residual). TF assigns advisors and resources based on a tier structure that purports to align the complexity of a client's needs with an advisor's expertise. Of course the hourly rate rises with complexity too. Whether one of the higher tiers would accommodate a second opinion on more advanced estate planning strategies is probably worth an email to them. They've been very responsive communicators.Spencer wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:42 am Enjoying the updates on Timothy.
Have they done any work on estate planning subjects for you? Curious how strong they are on the various advanced planning strategies, as it would be nice to have a 2nd opinion on some of the strategies our estate attorney has implemented.