Career advice for a young college student looking to get into Mega Corp or Big Tech

[KyleAAA]

Leetcode is fading fast. I interviewed for several staff engineer positions last fall and none of them involved Leetcode-style questions.

I haven't asked leetcode-style questions for years now except to new grads, but even then I usually only ask easier ones. At that level I just want to know, can you code fluently and are you smart? I can determine whether or not you have most of the attributes I'm looking for just by talking with you.

[CletusCaddy]

There is a concept known as ikigai. There is a well-known graphic you can easily find by Googling. Its the intersection of

What you love
What you are good at
What the world needs
What pays well

Of course it’s rare for anyone to find the intersection of all four. But to give up on the search while you are still in college, and just default to the money? That’s just a waste of a life man.

I wouldn't call it a waste of life without knowing the intentions for pursuing FIRE. What if the college student wants to FIRE to be able to pursue what he loves, what he is good at, and what the world needs without being constrained by it paying well?

I'm curious how you feel about your own high-paying career which has enabled you to FIRE by 40 and allowed you the option to start a second career as an advice-only RIA. Do you wish you had pursued a career with less earning potential but more meaning out of college?

That’s a great question. Part of the reason why I am saying these things is because I see myself in the OP’s kid. I also got a top 1% score on the SAT/ACT which opened up the big money jobs to me at a top college. And then chasing the money after college only to find it completely unfulfilling and bad for one’s mental and physical health.

If I were able to identify earlier a career that aligned with my non-monetary values, perhaps I could have had a much more stable, sustainable career that produced more day to day happiness. Less money upfront compared to where I am now but more years of doing sustainable work might have made up for that. And more consistent happiness throughout.

[yankees60]

I’d love got my kids to be passionate about their work. But unless you were born with some burning desire for something, a) that exists, and b) provides sufficient compensation, I don’t see any realistic path to get there.

And I think we give kids terrible advice when we tell them they need to be “passionate” about their work. Then they think if they aren’t passionate about it, something is wrong and they need to quit. But who’s to say there is a job they will ever be passionate about? They might just end up passing on good opportunities and find themselves adrift with no skills in middle age

Better advice is to avoid jobs you will strongly dislike (more easily predictable), find a career with good enough prospects, and attempt to cultivate, if not a passion, a professional interest.

There is a reason jobs have to pay people. Most of them aren’t things people would do for free

There is a concept known as ikigai. There is a well-known graphic you can easily find by Googling. Its the intersection of

What you love
What you are good at
What the world needs
What pays well

Of course it’s rare for anyone to find the intersection of all four. But to give up on the search while you are still in college, and just default to the money? That’s just a waste of a life man.

Don't know what the definition is for "pays well" but I'll add to what a few others have stated here. If you love and are good at accounting ... the world needs it endlessly. Name what organization (government / non-profit / business / other) that does not need someone(s) to do the necessary accounting.

A need that will never go away.

At this point the profession is not finding enough people. That leads to the basic demand / supply curve which feeds into the "pays well".

[yankees60]

My son has a little experience in this as he is currently in college. So I can give some things to think about.

Career fairs happen in the Fall and Spring. For the whole college and one for his engineering department (his school has Computer Science as part of the Engineering College).

He is smart and had huge number of AP’s to use to substitute some of the course requirements which means he could add in more advanced ones and off degree ones more quickly.

He was for Computer Science but has tacked on a Math Minor and a Comp Eng Minor as it was only a couple extra courses for him to achieve this. He was on course to graduate in 3 years, but just landed a Co-op so he’s taking a semester off to do that and then he has worked out he can do enough in the summer and final year to double major Computer Science with Electrical Engineering.


He has always been passionate about coding (little devil worked out how to post a video about coding in Scratch to YouTube when he was 7 years old) and remote controlled vehicles. He immediately joined the Self Driving Car Club when he got to college and has been passionate about it since then.

First 2 years the recruiters weren’t interested in him purely because he was not a Junior or Senior (which was short sighted of them I think), he did manage to pick up a temporary summer position last year on a professors project and did extra summer classes - and this year he had 2 offers of a co-op to pick from.

The reason he wants to double major is because he thinks maybe a straight CS degree is too limiting for what he may want to do. He has also commented on that fact that a lot of CS Majors aren’t smart and have a hard time coding. His comment was “ I always couldn’t understand why some websites don’t work properly and have problems, now I understand” - so from that I take that there are a lot of CS degrees being handed out to people that want to be in Computer Science because it pays well, but it does not come naturally to them.

So my question would be - does he love coding? Has he been dabbling in it since he was little? Does he find it comes naturally to him? Is there an option to do a double major (by maybe adding some extra classes in the summer)? Although I guess the overlap of courses that count for both degrees is not as big between accounting and computer science than it is between EE and CS.

Wow! Quite the son you have. If he was a public stock, I'd invest in him.

[CletusCaddy]

There is a concept known as ikigai. There is a well-known graphic you can easily find by Googling. Its the intersection of

What you love
What you are good at
What the world needs
What pays well

Of course it’s rare for anyone to find the intersection of all four. But to give up on the search while you are still in college, and just default to the money? That’s just a waste of a life man.

Don't know what the definition is for "pays well" but I'll add to what a few others have stated here. If you love and are good at accounting ... the world needs it endlessly. Name what organization (government / non-profit / business / other) that does not need someone(s) to do the necessary accounting.

A need that will never go away.

At this point the profession is not finding enough people. That leads to the basic demand / supply curve which feeds into the "pays well".

Yes the accountant shortage is real, and to me, head scratching.

[yankees60]

Don't know what the definition is for "pays well" but I'll add to what a few others have stated here. If you love and are good at accounting ... the world needs it endlessly. Name what organization (government / non-profit / business / other) that does not need someone(s) to do the necessary accounting.

A need that will never go away.

At this point the profession is not finding enough people. That leads to the basic demand / supply curve which feeds into the "pays well".

Yes the accountant shortage is real, and to me, head scratching.

Head scratching in what way?

It seems like the profession somewhat helped create this shortage with the 150 college credit hour to obtain CPA, which is essentially requiring a masters degree, which is not required in real life.

I once asked a quite good audit manager why she was not a CPA and she named that as a barrier (being a young mother with three young children).

It's not an easy profession to get into and stay in what with first getting the degrees, obtaining the CPA (if that is the accounting direction you are headed in), putting up with the time demands of either audits or tax season.

The shortage has been coming for a long, long time.

I still remember 30 years ago being in my office on a Saturday, doing final preparations for the auditor who was showing up on Monday. Then I left shortly after getting a phone call from the Big 4 partner telling me that auditor would not be showing up due to auditor shortages and would be pushed back a few weeks. Said it was beyond his control. My internal response was that you took on more clients / work than you could perform so it was under your control.

[ScubaHogg]

If I were able to identify earlier a career that aligned with my non-monetary values, perhaps I could have had a much more stable, sustainable career that produced more day to day happiness. Less money upfront compared to where I am now but more years of doing sustainable work might have made up for that. And more consistent happiness throughout.

Maybe that doesn't exist. Nothing says it has to

[yankees60]

If I were able to identify earlier a career that aligned with my non-monetary values, perhaps I could have had a much more stable, sustainable career that produced more day to day happiness. Less money upfront compared to where I am now but more years of doing sustainable work might have made up for that. And more consistent happiness throughout.

Maybe that doesn't exist. Nothing says it has to

It could. Not contributing to that is our current college system wherein it's expected that 18, 19-year-olds with limited life / work experience are supposed to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives.

I started as a math major at a science / engineering college, all the while wondering what I was going to do with a math degree. Dropped out after two years when the only numbers I was seeing in my courses were the problem numbers.

At age 24 with exponentially more life / work experience behind me I discovered what I wanted to do (with a passion) and finished junior / senior years plus a masters in three years.

From 18 years old -- fairly unfocussed -- to 24 years old -- extremely focused.

[CletusCaddy]

If I were able to identify earlier a career that aligned with my non-monetary values, perhaps I could have had a much more stable, sustainable career that produced more day to day happiness. Less money upfront compared to where I am now but more years of doing sustainable work might have made up for that. And more consistent happiness throughout.

Maybe that doesn't exist. Nothing says it has to

Sure. But how would you know if you don’t look?

[snowday2022]

Maybe that doesn't exist. Nothing says it has to

Sure. But how would you know if you don’t look?

Well, it CAN exist at least for some people. Maybe not for others depending on their attitude and station in life. Thanks for posting about Ikagai that is really cool.

[snowday2022]

You don’t see any realistic path for your kids to find work they are passionate about? You seriously that cynical?

Is it cynical to simply observe the vast vast majority of people aren’t “passionate” about their work?

Indeed, it’s kinda weird to assume there has to be any paid work that most people would be passionate about. There’s a reason companies have to pay people to do them

It’s more likely they are passionate about something that’s not work (such as spending time with their kids, making art, etc.). A well paying job could facilitate a passion, even if the job isn’t it

I guess it depends on your perspective. I know lots of people that are passionate about their work. I and most of my coworkers, many of my college buddies and classmates, siblings , neighbors and so forth. And with widely varying jobs and industries. Would they do it for free, maybe not. I do lots of extraneous things in my job for no pay though.

The ones who are not passionate generally recognize it and want better for their kids. Eg my brother has sold his soul in banking and admits it. He continues to work so that his kids can pursue passion projects without worry of supporting themselves.

[ScubaHogg]

I guess it depends on your perspective. I know lots of people that are passionate about their work. I and most of my coworkers, many of my college buddies and classmates, siblings , neighbors and so forth. And with widely varying jobs and industries. Would they do it for free, maybe not. I do lots of extraneous things in my job for no pay though.

This sounds like most the people you know, Which is frankly incredible to the point of straining credulity. I wonder if people feel like they have to say they are passionate in certain circles? Like the way you say “good” when someone says “how’s it going?”

I bet of everyone I know only one or two would honestly say they are “passionate” about their work

The ones who are not passionate generally recognize it and want better for their kids. Eg my brother has sold his soul in banking and admits it.

Y’all know that “passionate” and “sold my soul” aren’t the only alternatives, right?

[ScubaHogg]

Maybe that doesn't exist. Nothing says it has to

Sure. But how would you know if you don’t look?

But that’s my meta-point. I don’t know of any reliable way to “look”

[snowday2022]

I guess it depends on your perspective. I know lots of people that are passionate about their work. I and most of my coworkers, many of my college buddies and classmates, siblings , neighbors and so forth. And with widely varying jobs and industries. Would they do it for free, maybe not. I do lots of extraneous things in my job for no pay though.

This sounds like most the people you know, Which is frankly incredible to the point of straining credulity. I wonder if people feel like they have to say they are passionate in certain circles? Like the way you say “good” when someone says “how’s it going?”

I bet of everyone I know only one or two would honestly say they are “passionate” about their work

The ones who are not passionate generally recognize it and want better for their kids. Eg my brother has sold his soul in banking and admits it.

Y’all know that “passionate” and “sold my soul” aren’t the only alternatives, right?

I didn’t say most of the people I know. I also know lots of people who are not. Usually they are lower on the totem pole, work mired in bureaucracy, or have other mitigating factors like long commutes, bad health and so forth. You know there are studies on this and most people in America actually enjoy their jobs? So a lot of it is probably one’s attitude. I generally try to associate with people that have positive ones.

Anyway best of luck to you.

[ScubaHogg]

You know there are studies on this and most people in America actually enjoy their jobs? So a lot of it is probably one’s attitude. I generally try to associate with people that have positive ones..

Maybe we are just using words differently. To me there is a world of difference between “enjoying a job”, which I agree many people do, and being “passionate” about a job.

[Drsteamfitter]

Often what makes a job unbearable is not the work itself, it’s the people.

[TomatoTomahto]

Maybe we are just using words differently. To me there is a world of difference between “enjoying a job”, which I agree many people do, and being “passionate” about a job.

I remember, decades ago, when I was a software developer and systems architect working on Digital VMS (still the world’s best OS, but that’s a topic for another thread), I said that I would not buy lottery tickets because I didn’t know how to explain why I’d still be working if I won. I was paid silly amounts of money to do something I loved.

When I was forced into management, it was still pleasurable, but the decision to become a stay at home dad (SAHD) wasn’t as wrenching as it would have been previously.

The individual contributor role was a passion, the management role was enjoyable.

[valleyrock]

A couple of points.

--Check out "Designing Your Life." A book, and TED talks and it's the number on course at Stanford U.

--Kid can do whatever for a few years and then switch gears by going to grad school. One option there is an MBA, which is basically a kind of club, and allows access into Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.'s concept of the "money river." I'm sure Vonnegut would have had fun and many incites about FIRE There are many other viable master's options, of course, in areas that many of us have never heard of, and many of them very lucrative. Might be some prerequisites required, but that can be arranged.

--Recall that computer science started as master's degree programs, admitting people with any bachelor'd degree major. It isn't rocket science, and, once a person learns concepts of data input and output, loops and branches, subroutines and debugging, it's a matter of learning the vocabulary, structure, syntax, and rules for the language of choice, like Python. Learning a computer language close to machine language, like Assembler, is a good way to learn some basics. But I digress.

[TomatoTomahto]

--Recall that computer science started as master's degree programs, admitting people with any bachelor'd degree major. It isn't rocket science, and, once a person learns concepts of data input and output, loops and branches, subroutines and debugging, it's a matter of learning the vocabulary, structure, syntax, and rules for the language of choice, like Python. Learning a computer language close to machine language, like Assembler, is a good way to learn some basics. But I digress.

With respect, I don’t think you’ve kept up with what Computer Science is about. I have two relatively recent CS grads and was a long ago programmer, so I have a frame of reference. CS has moved on.

[flyingcows]

I've been a Software Developer most of my career, I was in management roles for a bit and then went back into individual contributor role. I make much more now as an individual contributor then I ever did at as a mid level manager at a prior employer, there can be incredibly large differences in total comp for similar roles depending on the company one works for.

Even though I've been working for 25 years now I still love what I do, actually I enjoy the work now more than I did when I started. Feel very fortunate as I know most do not feel that way, and having the ability to work from home full time doesn't hurt either

What worked for me was just finding projects/ideas that motivated me to build software before I had landed my first real software job. You can also start a career at a run of the mill company and then switch to a FAANG job later in your career if your willing to put in the effort to go through the motions for those types of interview processes, there is no pedigree filter on experienced hires at those companies but getting in as a new grad would probably be much more competitive I would think (no idea)

[CyclingDuo]

This is a great point too! We are of an age where we know many financially secure retired teachers.

Something to be aware of, many districts have done away with the generous pensions for new teachers. The county we lived in did so about 15 years ago…….

Government/state jobs have long offered the best pensions (defined benefit, collect for life, collect from a young age). Teachers, bureaucrats, police, firefighters, etc. all get their salaries and pensions paid for by the taxpayer. State pensions are a big part of the national debt aka unfunded liabilities. Getting something for nothing has eventual consequences.

Not sure we would agree with the "something for nothing" statement. Mandatory employee contributions out of each and every paycheck for 30+ years, plus a mandatory contribution from the employer goes into the pension plan. One has to meet certain rules to qualify for the full pension that is a combination of years of service and age (rule of 88 for example).

Required mandatory employee and employer contributions in our state...



The pension plan in our state (and many others) is designed to be 1/3 of the three legged stool along with SS and one's risk/savings portfolio to all combine for retirement income. Pension and SS contributions for each and every year of service should not be viewed as "something for nothing"...

CyclingDuo

[Valuethinker]

Maybe we are just using words differently. To me there is a world of difference between “enjoying a job”, which I agree many people do, and being “passionate” about a job.

I remember, decades ago, when I was a software developer and systems architect working on Digital VMS (still the world’s best OS, but that’s a topic for another thread),

Valuethinker jumps up, leaps into the air and slams your hand and screams "Dude!".

Next you are going to tell me you loved PDP-11 Assembler, and I am going to see if there's a way we can merge our intelligences in an Artificially Intelligent self-aware system?

Kidding aside. We learned on BSD Unix (like most university students, because the Berkeley version of UNIX was free). But I formed a view, 2nd hand, that for a commercial OS, VMS really was the "bees knees".

I said that I would not buy lottery tickets because I didn’t know how to explain why I’d still be working if I won. I was paid silly amounts of money to do something I loved.

When I was forced into management, it was still pleasurable, but the decision to become a stay at home dad (SAHD) wasn’t as wrenching as it would have been previously.

The individual contributor role was a passion, the management role was enjoyable.

Technical people are often unhappy when promoted into management. We have quite a few engineers who didn't want to manage large teams any more.

[TomatoTomahto]

Technical people are often unhappy when promoted into management. We have quite a few engineers who didn't want to manage large teams any more.

I think it comes from a misunderstanding, by management, of what an Individual Contributor can bring to the party. At my peak, I had a manager, dumb as a doorknob technically, who nevertheless understood that a boatload of average developers couldn’t do what I did; they just didn’t see the puzzle for what it was. He didn’t mind paying through the nose for me. For example, one weekend I decided to create software that did what a team of 4 had been working on for 8 months without an end in sight; it amused me to shove it in the face of the snobby developers.

Of course, the next manager figured I needed to manage to justify my compensation. Idiot. I enjoyed managing for a while, but it wasn’t my calling. Since I’m tooting my own horn here shamelessly, I’ll add that I was also a darned good father and my kids benefitted from me becoming a SAHD.

[Cletus Davenport]

I guess it depends on your perspective. I know lots of people that are passionate about their work. I and most of my coworkers, many of my college buddies and classmates, siblings , neighbors and so forth. And with widely varying jobs and industries. Would they do it for free, maybe not. I do lots of extraneous things in my job for no pay though.

This sounds like most the people you know, Which is frankly incredible to the point of straining credulity. I wonder if people feel like they have to say they are passionate in certain circles? Like the way you say “good” when someone says “how’s it going?”

I bet of everyone I know only one or two would honestly say they are “passionate” about their work

The ones who are not passionate generally recognize it and want better for their kids. Eg my brother has sold his soul in banking and admits it.

Y’all know that “passionate” and “sold my soul” aren’t the only alternatives, right?

I agree with you. I’ve been in professional engineering for over 30 years, and the vast vast majority were not passionate about their work. I maybe was for the first couple of years, but after doing it for a career, I lost that, and frankly, kinda hated it by the end.

When I was in school, I certainly knew a lot of kids who were pursuing medicine just for the money, so I don’t see a big difference here.

I really think if you’re looking for paid employment to give you fulfillment, you’re going to have a bad time. You should have passions and interests. And you can pursue and enjoy those outside of earning money.

[warner25]

...Mandatory employee contributions out of each and every paycheck for 30+ years, plus a mandatory contribution from the employer... should not be viewed as "something for nothing"...

Talking about contributions for each pay period isn't even necessary to defend pensions as not being "something for nothing." I think defending pensions that way is a fallacy that backs us into a corner. Labor isn't nothing. Employers pay something for it either now or later. How employers account for the "later" part, for those who choose to offer that in lieu of paying now, is beside the point. I get on this soapbox because I'm in line for an active duty military retirement pension, and there's no line item for contributions on our pay stubs, but it's clearly not given "for nothing;" the promise of it has been a major consideration in choosing to continue in the job for as long as I have.

[CyclingDuo]

...Mandatory employee contributions out of each and every paycheck for 30+ years, plus a mandatory contribution from the employer... should not be viewed as "something for nothing"...

Talking about contributions for each pay period isn't even necessary to defend pensions as not being "something for nothing." I think defending pensions that way is a fallacy that backs us into a corner. Labor isn't nothing. Employers pay something for it either now or later. How employers account for the "later" part, for those who choose to offer that in lieu of paying now, is beside the point. I get on this soapbox because I'm in line for an active duty military retirement pension, and there's no line item for contributions on our pay stubs, but it's clearly not given "for nothing;" the promise of it has been a major consideration in choosing to continue in the job for as long as I have.

Agree.

In my case, I was speaking only of teacher pensions where the mandatory contribution + the years of service are both requirements - as the retention “hook” - to get the “something”. Agree that the labor and years of service certainly is not “for nothing”.

Just always seems odd how other tax payers such as Drsteamfitter post comments that appear oddball to those who have given the years of service plus the contributions to qualify for the pension.

CyclingDuo

[valleyrock]

--Recall that computer science started as master's degree programs, admitting people with any bachelor'd degree major. It isn't rocket science, and, once a person learns concepts of data input and output, loops and branches, subroutines and debugging, it's a matter of learning the vocabulary, structure, syntax, and rules for the language of choice, like Python. Learning a computer language close to machine language, like Assembler, is a good way to learn some basics. But I digress.

With respect, I don’t think you’ve kept up with what Computer Science is about. I have two relatively recent CS grads and was a long ago programmer, so I have a frame of reference. CS has moved on.

Moved on how? Please advise!

[TomatoTomahto]

With respect, I don’t think you’ve kept up with what Computer Science is about. I have two relatively recent CS grads and was a long ago programmer, so I have a frame of reference. CS has moved on.

Moved on how? Please advise!

Data structures and algorithms are still a part of it, but it has become much more “math-y.” I made a good living as a software developer, and my title was Computer Scientist at a couple of firms, but I would not last for 10 minutes at any of my sons’ interviews or courses.

[valleyrock]

Moved on how? Please advise!

Data structures and algorithms are still a part of it, but it has become much more “math-y.” I made a good living as a software developer, and my title was Computer Scientist at a couple of firms, but I would not last for 10 minutes at any of my sons’ interviews or courses.

Hmmm. I'll bet you would if you'd take some courses at EdX and,/or went for Microsoft certifications.

I'd like to know what's math-y. Can you please go beneath the surface on that...What fundamentals are being learned in order to be able to keep on learning? What acronyms are they bandying about?

[TomatoTomahto]

Data structures and algorithms are still a part of it, but it has become much more “math-y.” I made a good living as a software developer, and my title was Computer Scientist at a couple of firms, but I would not last for 10 minutes at any of my sons’ interviews or courses.

Hmmm. I'll bet you would if you'd take some courses at EdX and,/or went for Microsoft certifications.

I'd like to know what's math-y. Can you please go beneath the surface on that...What fundamentals are being learned in order to be able to keep on learning? What acronyms are they bandying about?

I’ll give you one basic example. In my time, we would have a sense that data structure A would be faster than B in searches that we expected to be doing; my kids are expected to be able to quantify the resulting differences based on math.

Some of this might be because of my kids’ interests, but they know a lot about machine learning, AI, etc., fields that don’t even exist in my day.

[yankees60]

Hmmm. I'll bet you would if you'd take some courses at EdX and,/or went for Microsoft certifications.

I'd like to know what's math-y. Can you please go beneath the surface on that...What fundamentals are being learned in order to be able to keep on learning? What acronyms are they bandying about?

I’ll give you one basic example. In my time, we would have a sense that data structure A would be faster than B in searches that we expected to be doing; my kids are expected to be able to quantify the resulting differences based on math.

Some of this might be because of my kids’ interests, but they know a lot about machine learning, AI, etc., fields that don’t even exist in my day.

When specifically did your "day" end? And, when did your learning about all of this stop prior to that day?

[TomatoTomahto]

I’ll give you one basic example. In my time, we would have a sense that data structure A would be faster than B in searches that we expected to be doing; my kids are expected to be able to quantify the resulting differences based on math.

Some of this might be because of my kids’ interests, but they know a lot about machine learning, AI, etc., fields that don’t even exist in my day.

When specifically did your "day" end? And, when did your learning about all of this stop prior to that day?

I stopped working for a paycheck about two decades ago, but I am still close to the industry because of my wife, kids, and friends.

[yankees60]

When specifically did your "day" end? And, when did your learning about all of this stop prior to that day?

I stopped working for a paycheck about two decades ago, but I am still close to the industry because of my wife, kids, and friends.

In such a profession two decades is a much longer time than the normal two decades in our lives?

In other words, things change in that profession at hyper speed compared to how things change on the average in our lives.

[TomatoTomahto]

I stopped working for a paycheck about two decades ago, but I am still close to the industry because of my wife, kids, and friends.

In such a profession two decades is a much longer time than the normal two decades in our lives?

In other words, things change in that profession at hyper speed compared to how things change on the average in our lives.

I agree, which was the point I was failing to make to @valleyrock about how different CS now is.

[yankees60]

In such a profession two decades is a much longer time than the normal two decades in our lives?

In other words, things change in that profession at hyper speed compared to how things change on the average in our lives.

I agree, which was the point I was failing to make to @valleyrock about how different CS now is.

You definitely made it with me (who is outside of the profession, aside from my total dependence on computers to get anything done in my life).

[TN_Boy]

--Recall that computer science started as master's degree programs, admitting people with any bachelor'd degree major. It isn't rocket science, and, once a person learns concepts of data input and output, loops and branches, subroutines and debugging, it's a matter of learning the vocabulary, structure, syntax, and rules for the language of choice, like Python. Learning a computer language close to machine language, like Assembler, is a good way to learn some basics. But I digress.

With respect, I don’t think you’ve kept up with what Computer Science is about. I have two relatively recent CS grads and was a long ago programmer, so I have a frame of reference. CS has moved on.

TomatoTomahto is quite right.

Valleyrock is describing what a junior programmer does while getting paid (by CS standards) relatively little. Learning to code in language X doesn't make you a computer scientist.

What more senior people (i.e. the actual "computer scientists") do is design and architect complex systems. Distributed highly available systems with strict performance constraints comprised of millions of lines of code. They figure out how to test such a beast. They understand, at a fairly deep level, CPU, memory and storage performance. They understand complex networking protocols, etc.

Is it rocket science? No. But it is a lot more than a junior programmer writing python scripts.

[KyleAAA]

Data structures and algorithms are still a part of it, but it has become much more “math-y.” I made a good living as a software developer, and my title was Computer Scientist at a couple of firms, but I would not last for 10 minutes at any of my sons’ interviews or courses.

Hmmm. I'll bet you would if you'd take some courses at EdX and,/or went for Microsoft certifications.

I'd like to know what's math-y. Can you please go beneath the surface on that...What fundamentals are being learned in order to be able to keep on learning? What acronyms are they bandying about?

Microsoft Certifications? I was a SWE hiring manager at Microsoft and even we didn't care about Microsoft certifications.

[valleyrock]

Hmmm. I'll bet you would if you'd take some courses at EdX and,/or went for Microsoft certifications.

I'd like to know what's math-y. Can you please go beneath the surface on that...What fundamentals are being learned in order to be able to keep on learning? What acronyms are they bandying about?

Microsoft Certifications? I was a SWE hiring manager at Microsoft and even we didn't care about Microsoft certifications.

SWE I know for a fact is the Society of Women Engineers.

[TomatoTomahto]

SWE I know for a fact is the Society of Women Engineers.

Now I’m beginning to think you’re pulling our leg. You can’t always take the first Google answer. SWE in this context means Software Engineer.

[yankees60]

SWE I know for a fact is the Society of Women Engineers.

Now I’m beginning to think you’re pulling our leg. You can’t always take the first Google answer. SWE in this context means Software Engineer.

I'm a Bing person. A first page Bing search is ALL the above Society except for one for "Springfield Wine Exchange". Nothing regarding Software Engineer.

[KyleAAA]

Microsoft Certifications? I was a SWE hiring manager at Microsoft and even we didn't care about Microsoft certifications.

SWE I know for a fact is the Society of Women Engineers.

In Microsoft parlance we'd have called them SDE's, but I think everyone in the industry knows I was referring to software engineers. SWE is the most commonly-used abbreviation.

[Valuethinker]

Technical people are often unhappy when promoted into management. We have quite a few engineers who didn't want to manage large teams any more.

I think it comes from a misunderstanding, by management, of what an Individual Contributor can bring to the party. At my peak, I had a manager, dumb as a doorknob technically, who nevertheless understood that a boatload of average developers couldn’t do what I did; they just didn’t see the puzzle for what it was. He didn’t mind paying through the nose for me. For example, one weekend I decided to create software that did what a team of 4 had been working on for 8 months without an end in sight; it amused me to shove it in the face of the snobby developers.

Of course, the next manager figured I needed to manage to justify my compensation. Idiot. I enjoyed managing for a while, but it wasn’t my calling. Since I’m tooting my own horn here shamelessly, I’ll add that I was also a darned good father and my kids benefitted from me becoming a SAHD.

For example, one weekend I decided to create software that did what a team of 4 had been working on for 8 months without an end in sight; it amused me to shove it in the face of the snobby developers.

There are definitely diseconomies of scale in the development of software see "The Mythical Man Month and Other Essays". Throwing more people at a problem can make it worse.

And there's a performance curve for software engineers. And the best are 10x better than the average (probably 100x in truth).

I also like your other points about the way the discipline of Computer Science has changed in the last 40 years (I haven't kept up).

Management is inevitably about People & Politics. Some people love it, some people are good at it. It's a very different skill than software engineering.

[valleyrock]

SWE I know for a fact is the Society of Women Engineers.

In Microsoft parlance we'd have called them SDE's, but I think everyone in the industry knows I was referring to software engineers. SWE is the most commonly-used abbreviation.

There are not necessarily a lot of BHs in this industry.
Always good to spell out acronyms for the uninitiated.

[one_speed]

Learn golf.

Golf won't get you anywhere in tech. Learn rock climbing.

That definitely sounds more fun.

[Dusn]

Kinda sad a college kid already wants to FIRE

Why not find a career that is fulfilling instead?

What is distressing is when your Doctor is wanting to FIRE.

It's pretty understandable for your doctor to want to FIRE. If patients think the healthcare system is a frustrating mess, imagine having to work in it all day, everyday.