HSA Bank Eliminating Schwab Investing Option

[Joyful]

Hi - I like simplicity and HSA bank just added more complexity to my life. HSA Bank is eliminating the Schwab HSBA investment option in Mid-Sept 2024. HSA Bank is moving to a AUM model. BTW I don't like HSA bank (they are Greedy and this is a Money Grab) and I'm not interested in investing with them.

I talked to Schwab about the changes at HSA Bank. The rep recommended that I move my Schwab HSBA to Lively (livelyme.com). I then talked to a rep at Lively and you have to maintain a $3K in their HSA account or pay $24/year in order to have access to Schwab's Health Savings Brokerage (HSBA) acct at Schwab. I don't want to do that and Schwab does not offer HSA accounts.

Right now I'm leaning towards opening a Fidelity HSA and doing an in-kind transfer of my Schwab HSBA account to Fidelity. And at HSA bank select the Choice plan money market acct (if they have one) for payroll HSA contributions. Then once a month/quarter do an in-kind transfer of the HSA bank MM to my Fidelity HSA. So much for simplicity!

Does this make sense?
What am I missing?
Anything else that I need to consider?

Thanks in Advance

[RJC]

Check to see if you can do a direct payroll contribution to Fidelity HSA. I just moved everything over from Schwab yesterday and it seems to be pretty seamless.

The only issue I have now is how to transfer the employer/insurance contributions from HSA Bank to Fidelity HSA on a regular basis.

[Joyful]

Hi - Thanks!

Unfortunately, GEHA insurance uses HSA Bank for its monthly contribution and HSA bank is the only option for my pre-tax contributions too.

Bummer

[RJC]

There's another thread with additional discussion on this topic: viewtopic.php?p=7971153#p7971153

[Joyful]

Thanks!

Yes, I read (and will keep reading) that thread, however, I wanted to get specific advice regarding my strategy vs. high jacking or being buried in another thread.

[LadyGeek]

Thanks!

Yes, I read (and will keep reading) that thread, however, I wanted to get specific advice regarding my strategy vs. high jacking or being buried in another thread.

OK, let's focus on your own situation in this thread.

As stated by RJC, additional discussion is in HSA Bank eliminating investment options.

[Beachey]

Thanks!

Yes, I read (and will keep reading) that thread, however, I wanted to get specific advice regarding my strategy vs. high jacking or being buried in another thread.

What you describe is what I do, my work HSA is with Payflex(now Inspira), and I transfer every six months to Fidelity. You can pull from the Fidelity side and it takes about a week. You want to always leave at least ~$100 in the HSA. No specific experience with HSA but Payflex does have a fee to close the account which is why I will never likely close it completely or completely drain it over to Fidelity.

[whodidntante]

You don't need Schwab access to get a good deal.

If your intention is to invest HSA funds rather than spend them, there is no better platform than Fidelity.
If your intention is to spend the funds, it's still hard to beat, because the money market funds pay well.

No added fees, no minimums to invest unless you are buying a fund that has purchasing restrictions. But you can do just fine with ETFs or Fidelity index funds.

I just move the funds out of the employer HSA to a Fidelity HSA once a year.

[aristotelian]

Hi - I like simplicity and HSA bank just added more complexity to my life. HSA Bank is eliminating the Schwab HSBA investment option in Mid-Sept 2024. HSA Bank is moving to a AUM model. BTW I don't like HSA bank (they are Greedy and this is a Money Grab) and I'm not interested in investing with them.

I talked to Schwab about the changes at HSA Bank. The rep recommended that I move my Schwab HSBA to Lively (livelyme.com). I then talked to a rep at Lively and you have to maintain a $3K in their HSA account or pay $24/year in order to have access to Schwab's Health Savings Brokerage (HSBA) acct at Schwab. I don't want to do that and Schwab does not offer HSA accounts.

Right now I'm leaning towards opening a Fidelity HSA and doing an in-kind transfer of my Schwab HSBA account to Fidelity. And at HSA bank select the Choice plan money market acct (if they have one) for payroll HSA contributions. Then once a month/quarter do an in-kind transfer of the HSA bank MM to my Fidelity HSA. So much for simplicity!

Does this make sense?
What am I missing?
Anything else that I need to consider?

Thanks in Advance

Your plan makes sense as long as HSA Bank doesn't charge a transfer fee. If they do, you might want to withdraw the funds once a year and do the rollover yourself.

[cspitzer]

Hi - I like simplicity and HSA bank just added more complexity to my life. HSA Bank is eliminating the Schwab HSBA investment option in Mid-Sept 2024. HSA Bank is moving to a AUM model. BTW I don't like HSA bank (they are Greedy and this is a Money Grab) and I'm not interested in investing with them.

I talked to Schwab about the changes at HSA Bank. The rep recommended that I move my Schwab HSBA to Lively (livelyme.com). I then talked to a rep at Lively and you have to maintain a $3K in their HSA account or pay $24/year in order to have access to Schwab's Health Savings Brokerage (HSBA) acct at Schwab. I don't want to do that and Schwab does not offer HSA accounts.

Right now I'm leaning towards opening a Fidelity HSA and doing an in-kind transfer of my Schwab HSBA account to Fidelity. And at HSA bank select the Choice plan money market acct (if they have one) for payroll HSA contributions. Then once a month/quarter do an in-kind transfer of the HSA bank MM to my Fidelity HSA. So much for simplicity!

Does this make sense?
What am I missing?
Anything else that I need to consider?

Thanks in Advance

Your plan makes sense as long as HSA Bank doesn't charge a transfer fee. If they do, you might want to withdraw the funds once a year and do the rollover yourself.

Your plan makes sense, but I think that you might be missing a couple of things in addition to the potential HSA Bank transfer fee as noted above:

1. It is unknown if HSA Bank will allow in-kind transfers with the new HSA Invest Choice option. As the Fidelity website notes, "Keep in mind, many HSA providers will only transfer cash. You may be required to liquidate investments (if you hold any) in order to transfer as cash." Hopefully, HSA Bank will permit in-kind transfers with the new HSA Invest Choice option.
2. You will need to purchase a money market mutual fund at HSA Bank with the new HSA Invest Choice option for which Fidelity will accept as an in-kind transfer. For example, I checked, and HSA Invest does allow purchases of the Fidelity® Government Money Market Fund (SPAXX). Fidelity should accept an in-kind transfer of that money market mutual fund.

[aristotelian]

Hi - I like simplicity and HSA bank just added more complexity to my life. HSA Bank is eliminating the Schwab HSBA investment option in Mid-Sept 2024. HSA Bank is moving to a AUM model. BTW I don't like HSA bank (they are Greedy and this is a Money Grab) and I'm not interested in investing with them.

I talked to Schwab about the changes at HSA Bank. The rep recommended that I move my Schwab HSBA to Lively (livelyme.com). I then talked to a rep at Lively and you have to maintain a $3K in their HSA account or pay $24/year in order to have access to Schwab's Health Savings Brokerage (HSBA) acct at Schwab. I don't want to do that and Schwab does not offer HSA accounts.

Right now I'm leaning towards opening a Fidelity HSA and doing an in-kind transfer of my Schwab HSBA account to Fidelity. And at HSA bank select the Choice plan money market acct (if they have one) for payroll HSA contributions. Then once a month/quarter do an in-kind transfer of the HSA bank MM to my Fidelity HSA. So much for simplicity!

Does this make sense?
What am I missing?
Anything else that I need to consider?

Thanks in Advance

Your plan makes sense as long as HSA Bank doesn't charge a transfer fee. If they do, you might want to withdraw the funds once a year and do the rollover yourself.

Your plan makes sense, but I think that you might be missing a couple of things in addition to the potential HSA Bank transfer fee as noted above:

1. It is unknown if HSA Bank will allow in-kind transfers with the new HSA Invest Choice option. As the Fidelity website notes, "Keep in mind, many HSA providers will only transfer cash. You may be required to liquidate investments (if you hold any) in order to transfer as cash." Hopefully, HSA Bank will permit in-kind transfers with the new HSA Invest Choice option.
2. You will need to purchase a money market mutual fund at HSA Bank with the new HSA Invest Choice option for which Fidelity will accept as an in-kind transfer. For example, I checked, and HSA Invest does allow purchases of the Fidelity® Government Money Market Fund (SPAXX). Fidelity should accept an in-kind transfer of that money market mutual fund.

Usually if in kind transfer is allowed, any proprietary funds will be liquidated and transferred as cash. ACATS transfers can include cash.

[hoofaman]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

[paof2]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

There are employer healthcare plans that have pre-arranged agreements with HSA Bank to handle their employee's accounts. In that situation, if you go with an HDHP, all pass-through contributions automatically go to HSA Bank. It was simpler for employee contributions to go to the same place. Now with the additional fee being imposed, it can be worth the extra effort to just set up an HSA at Fidelity and move everything over.

[wije]

Hi - Thanks!

Unfortunately, GEHA insurance uses HSA Bank for its monthly contribution and HSA bank is the only option for my pre-tax contributions too.

Bummer

So this fellow bogleheadser shifted his payroll deductions to Fidelity:
viewtopic.php?p=7968386&sid=a6436ee5a2b ... 1#p7968386

[kramer]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

I set my original account up over 15 years ago when there were far fewer options. And then, if I recall, my low cost HSA provider got bought or merged or something and I ended up at HSA Bank. In fact, that may have happened twice. I don't even remember what happened any more.

[benne77]

I just enrolled in HSA bank investing option today in the choice option. Easy and painless. I elected to automatically invest anything over 1k into VTI. They charge a rather minimal fee. Rather than switching companies altogether I will just stick with HSA bank for the ease of it for now. Here are the fees.

Annual asset-based fees may be applied on a quarterly basis and deducted from the investment balance. The annual fees are 0.10% for Choice, 0.25% for Select and 0.35% for Managed. For every $1,000 you invest you’d pay $0.25 quarterly for Choice, $0.62 quarterly for Select and $0.87 quarterly for Managed.

[grabiner]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

There are employer healthcare plans that have pre-arranged agreements with HSA Bank to handle their employee's accounts. In that situation, if you go with an HDHP, all pass-through contributions automatically go to HSA Bank. It was simpler for employee contributions to go to the same place. Now with the additional fee being imposed, it can be worth the extra effort to just set up an HSA at Fidelity and move everything over.

In particular, GEHA, the most popular HDHP for federal employees, uses HSA Bank. GEHA will make an automatic contribution to HSA Bank; you can contribute more to another provider's HSA by payroll deduction but you will be stuck with the automatic amount in GEHA.

Previously, the fees normally charged by HSA Bank were waived. But the percentage fees on the investments are not waived unless you keep $7500 in the bank account, and if you do keep $7500 in the bank account, you are losing much more than the percentage fees because the interest rate at HSA Bank is not competitive.

[RJC]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

There are employer healthcare plans that have pre-arranged agreements with HSA Bank to handle their employee's accounts. In that situation, if you go with an HDHP, all pass-through contributions automatically go to HSA Bank. It was simpler for employee contributions to go to the same place. Now with the additional fee being imposed, it can be worth the extra effort to just set up an HSA at Fidelity and move everything over.

In particular, GEHA, the most popular HDHP for federal employees, uses HSA Bank. GEHA will make an automatic contribution to HSA Bank; you can contribute more to another provider's HSA by payroll deduction but you will be stuck with the automatic amount in GEHA.

Previously, the fees normally charged by HSA Bank were waived. But the percentage fees on the investments are not waived unless you keep $7500 in the bank account, and if you do keep $7500 in the bank account, you are losing much more than the percentage fees because the interest rate at HSA Bank is not competitive.

Hi grabiner, may I ask what you will be doing moving forward? I have GEHA HDHP as well and am tired of the constant switching (from TD to Schwab and now this). I have decided to create a Fidelity HSA so I can make my payroll contributions (through MyPay). Now I have to figure out how to periodically transfer GEHA's contributions ($2k/year) to Fidelity.

[grabiner]

What was the reason people used HSA bank instead of Fidelity?

There are employer healthcare plans that have pre-arranged agreements with HSA Bank to handle their employee's accounts. In that situation, if you go with an HDHP, all pass-through contributions automatically go to HSA Bank. It was simpler for employee contributions to go to the same place. Now with the additional fee being imposed, it can be worth the extra effort to just set up an HSA at Fidelity and move everything over.

In particular, GEHA, the most popular HDHP for federal employees, uses HSA Bank. GEHA will make an automatic contribution to HSA Bank; you can contribute more to another provider's HSA by payroll deduction but you will be stuck with the automatic amount in GEHA.

Previously, the fees normally charged by HSA Bank were waived. But the percentage fees on the investments are not waived unless you keep $7500 in the bank account, and if you do keep $7500 in the bank account, you are losing much more than the percentage fees because the interest rate at HSA Bank is not competitive.

Hi grabiner, may I ask what you will be doing moving forward? I have GEHA HDHP as well and am tired of the constant switching (from TD to Schwab and now this). I have decided to create a Fidelity HSA so I can make my payroll contributions (through MyPay). Now I have to figure out how to periodically transfer GEHA's contributions ($2k/year) to Fidelity.

My recommendation is to transfer everything to Fidelity, probably once a year with the GEHA contributions.

Since the Schwab account is sell-only, any dividends you receive there will stay in the sweep account and earn a very low rate; you can't put them in a money-market fund. You can transfer them back to HSA Bank, but that doesn't simplify things.

One exception: if you live in CA or NJ and have stock in the Schwab account, selling it will incur a state capital gain. If you wait until you move out of state (or, in NJ, which does not allow capital loss carryovers, wait until a year that you have capital losses in another account), you can avoid the state capital-gains tax by leaving the funds at Schwab. Waiting may still not be worth all the trouble of doing the transfer.

[bene1]

In particular, GEHA, the most popular HDHP for federal employees, uses HSA Bank. GEHA will make an automatic contribution to HSA Bank; you can contribute more to another provider's HSA by payroll deduction but you will be stuck with the automatic amount in GEHA.

Previously, the fees normally charged by HSA Bank were waived. But the percentage fees on the investments are not waived unless you keep $7500 in the bank account, and if you do keep $7500 in the bank account, you are losing much more than the percentage fees because the interest rate at HSA Bank is not competitive.

At the moment, I don't think the bolded statement can be verified for employer-provided health plans like GEHA. The situation seems to be in transition and HSA Bank's website now includes this language about investment fees.

https://hsabank.com/HSABank/Members/HSA ... nt-Options

Annual asset-based fees may be applied on a quarterly basis and deducted from the investment balance. The annual fees are 0.10% for Choice, 0.25% for Select and 0.35% for Managed. For every $1,000 you invest you’d pay $0.25 quarterly for Choice, $0.62 quarterly for Select and $0.87 quarterly for Managed.

HSA Invest annual fees are waived for any quarter when your average HSA cash balance for that quarter is $7,500 or more.

Fees may vary if your HSA is through your employer. View exact annual fees on the Member Website under Manage Investments.

I can't currently find "exact annual fees" for GEHA members, but until now they have been superior to HSA Bank's retail offerings. We'll see if that continues. I have some hope it might.

[bene1]

Public service announcement.

HSA Bank's website includes this statement about their new fees for investing: "Fees may vary if your HSA is through your employer." I have posted a couple times with some hope that federal employees with GEHA health insurance would continue to have preferred pricing at HSA Bank. I contacted HSA Bank by email and phone about the new fees and received the following information.

At present, the stated HSA Invest fees and waiver requirement ($7500 in cash) will apply to nearly all customers and employers. I was told there is one (undisclosed) employer that has custom pricing, but it is not the government/GEHA. It is possible there may be others in the future, but there are currently no specific arrangements for the government/GEHA.

I take it that any serious attempt to negotiate pricing will come from GEHA on behalf of its members. I sent a message to GEHA's customer service about HSA Bank and encouraged their involvement. Of course, "voting with my feet" by moving HSA funds elsewhere is an option. But IMO, GEHA knocking down HSA Bank's fees would be a win by maintaining customers' choices.

[FedGuy]

I take it that any serious attempt to negotiate pricing will come from GEHA on behalf of its members. I sent a message to GEHA's customer service about HSA Bank and encouraged their involvement.

Please let us know if you hear back, bene1. I emailed GEHA immediately after I first heard about this and have not received a response.

[jaMichael]

I take it that any serious attempt to negotiate pricing will come from GEHA on behalf of its members. I sent a message to GEHA's customer service about HSA Bank and encouraged their involvement.

Please let us know if you hear back, bene1. I emailed GEHA immediately after I first heard about this and have not received a response.

I emailed GEHA and received a response last week. Basically they said that HSA Bank is my only option now (duh) and that they always consider their custodian options every year: "At this time the only bank we utilize for HSA funds is HSA Bank. Every year we review our vendors for possible changes around open season. We will continue to review our vendor options for future plan years. If you have any additional questions or concerns, or if I may be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to reach out to me at customercareoutreachteam@GEHA.com."

Reading between the lines, they are suggesting that they might reach an agreement with a different custodian in 2025, but no promises.

I would think that OPM has a lot of leverage here. Has anyone talked to them?

[George Maine]

I spoke to the Health Savings Brokerage Account (HSBA) help line at Schwab today (19 Sept 2024, Phone number 800 472 0084, option 4). The person was knowledgeable, very familiar with this topic (lots of calls) and confirmed that: Yes, HSA Bank as "the custodian" can restrict my Schwab HSBA to become Sell Only. For example, when a CD in that account matures in November, the cash in the account cannot roll over or be re-invested - it will be held as a cash balance. Yes, it is confirmed that HSA Bank will from time to time sweep through the HSBA and transfer these cash balances back to HSA Bank.

The good news is that Schwab has "pre-approval' from HSA Bank to transfer in-kind assets from the Schwab HSBA to Fidelity. I did not ask about any other options besides Fidelity that are pre-approved for that transfer.

In my case, I'm retired, so there will be no employer restrictions holding me to keep the HSA Bank account open. My plan is to open an HSA at Fidelity, make the in-kind transfers from Schwab, then close out the HSA Bank account as well.

Best wishes to all.

[Joyful]

I received my employers September monthly contribution to my HSA on Friday September 13. I initiated an in-kind transfer to Fidelity on Monday or Tuesday, September 16 or 17th. Schwab liquidated my Schwab money market account and put the proceeds into cash. As of today, Friday, September 20 the account has not been transferred to Fidelity and I’m really concerned that HSA Bank will sweep the cash back to HSA Bank on Tuesday, September 24. I called Fidelity and they said that the transfer will take between 4 and five weeks, however, I’ve seen on this forum that the transfer has taken days. Any idea what I should do if the cash is swept back to HSA Bank before Fidelity completes its transfer? The Schwab representative stated that a ACAT transfer is in process and that HSA Bank most likely cannot sweep the cash back to HSA Bank because the ACAT transfer is in process, is that true? Any guidance or thoughts are welcome

[jwc1754]

My husband has the same issue with HSA bank. They moved the cash from Schwab to hsabank already. The ETF investment is still in Schwab. He is still working but will not make any HSA contributions in 2025. Can he open a fidelity HSA account and move the HSA investment in-kind from schweb to fidelity? Thanks.

[534Bc]

Yes, that should work well. He can also transfer the $1000 cash from HSA Bank if he has it there. hsabank requires some of us to maintain a minimum of $1000 threshold before investing on their platform with drivewealth.

[jwc1754]

Thanks, 534Bc. Is there any issues with Fidelity for medical reimbursement in retirement? Can he also transfer all cash out from hsabank to fidelity if he retired? He is going to retire in later 2025.

Thanks,

[brockmari]

Hi - Thanks!

Unfortunately, GEHA insurance uses HSA Bank for its monthly contribution and HSA bank is the only option for my pre-tax contributions too.

Bummer

What we used to do before retiring was contribute just $1 per pay to the company sponsored HSA, which was the minimum to get the annual company HSA contribution. Then I made separate after tax contributions to our HSAs at Fidelity. The income tax can be refunded or credited at tax time if not consumed by other non-payroll income (e.g. interest/dividends). The downside is that you can't recover the FICA taxes for the after tax contributions. I didn't bother transferring the cash accumulated in the company HSA until after we retired. Not sure if it would have been allowed without completely closing the account and there were for sure associated fees. To me it was worth it because we could invest 100% of the Fidelity HSAs in anything that Fidelity sells, for no additional service fee.

[534Bc]

Thanks, 534Bc. Is there any issues with Fidelity for medical reimbursement in retirement? Can he also transfer all cash out from hsabank to fidelity if he retired? He is going to retire in later 2025.

Thanks,

I've never removed any from fidelity for paying medical or re-imbursement yet. My guess is that it is a simple transfer and it's up to you to save your receipts for qualifying medical.

All the cash can be transferred to fidelity.

[Feldman]

My husband has the same issue with HSA bank. They moved the cash from Schwab to hsabank already. The ETF investment is still in Schwab. He is still working but will not make any HSA contributions in 2025. Can he open a fidelity HSA account and move the HSA investment in-kind from schweb to fidelity? Thanks.

Yes. When you perform the transfer, select Schwab as the originating location (not HSA Bank), and upload a Schwab account statement. There is a $25 transfer and / or account closure fee imposed by Schwab which Fidelity will reimburse (requires manual submission) if the transferred account value is greater than $25,000.

[jwc1754]

I just enrolled in HSA bank investing option today in the choice option. Easy and painless. I elected to automatically invest anything over 1k into VTI. They charge a rather minimal fee. Rather than switching companies altogether I will just stick with HSA bank for the ease of it for now. Here are the fees.

Annual asset-based fees may be applied on a quarterly basis and deducted from the investment balance. The annual fees are 0.10% for Choice, 0.25% for Select and 0.35% for Managed. For every $1,000 you invest you’d pay $0.25 quarterly for Choice, $0.62 quarterly for Select and $0.87 quarterly for Managed.

I tried to use HSA bank investing option. Did not like it. Did they provide real time quotes and execute when you submitted the order?