Did Hertz deceptively make me sign up for insurance?

[grok87]

Been renting cars for 20+ years and I ALWAYS decline all insurance. This time I was with my family and kid so a little bit distracted. The agent said something about which "package" do you want. Don't recall the exact wording but fairly sure I did not hear the word insurance. He presents a laminated poster with three different "packages". The lowest one being "BASIC". Don't remember what the others were called. In my haste I just assumed BASIC meant no insurance so I picked that. He gave me a receipt and I noticed a $200+ charge on it. Didn't think much of it since I assumed that was the generic charge for the rental car ( it was pre-paid via Hotwire for around $170 ).

So after returning the car I noticed a $209 charge on my credit card from Hertz. I looked up the receipt online ( they said they would email it but I never got it or missed it ). The receipt says it is for "DAMAGE WAIVER (CDW/LDW) 209.94 "

Please no victim blaming as I know that is all too common on this board. I want to know from people who have used Hertz if they agree this is a deceitful practice to get you to sign up for insurance unknowingly. If so I will just dispute the charge. Otherwise I will chalk it up to my being distracted and not careful.

thanks for posting. i will be alert to this from now on.
cheers,
grok

[PeninsulaPerson]

Been renting cars for 20+ years and I ALWAYS decline all insurance.

I want to know from people who have used Hertz if they agree this is a deceitful practice to get you to sign up for insurance unknowingly.

About 20 years ago, as a car-renting newbie, on a Hertz bus I saw a poster for Hertz Gold.

At the Hertz depot, there was a pamphlet.

I learned that Hertz Gold was free and - as a "member" - I could get my car and go. No waiting in the horrible line, no pushy sales pushes.

The best part - as part of my Hertz Gold "profile," I have indicated the coverages I want and don't want. I can double-check that any time online.

So I can be rushed or distracted ... and that profile still dictates what coverages I get.

Hertz didn't "make you" do anything. You paid some Distraction Tax. It happens, especially when traveling. Be glad it wasn't more, or worse. And if a company you use has a nice, free program that makes your life easier, sign up!

(Oh, and I always take a moment to check the car and the contract printout before leaving the area. All has been as it should have been but I figure that's my best chance to get any mistakes corrected.)


(Also not sure but it does seem that getting 3rd parties involved in these things - Hotwire - can more than make up in complication what they save in dollars.)

[martint]

About 20 years ago, as a car-renting newbie, on a Hertz bus I saw a poster for Hertz Gold.

At the Hertz depot, there was a pamphlet.

I learned that Hertz Gold was free and - as a "member" - I could get my car and go. No waiting in the horrible line, no pushy sales pushes.

Not all Hertz locations have the Hertz Gold skip the line feature. All (almost all?) outside US locations require you to talk with a person. Some US locations as well, especially smaller airports and off-airport locations.

[PeninsulaPerson]

About 20 years ago, as a car-renting newbie, on a Hertz bus I saw a poster for Hertz Gold.

At the Hertz depot, there was a pamphlet.

I learned that Hertz Gold was free and - as a "member" - I could get my car and go. No waiting in the horrible line, no pushy sales pushes.

Not all Hertz locations have the Hertz Gold skip the line feature. All (almost all?) outside US locations require you to talk with a person. Some US locations as well, especially smaller airports and off-airport locations.

You could be quite right.

I have not seen that myself, but then I have not rented cars outside the US nor at non-airport locations.

[knightrider]

How did you contact Hertz to get this favorable resolution? I had the same thing happen to me and wanted to try your approach too. Thanks!

Don't recall exactly, but fairly sure I just emailed them from their website and referenced the booking # or something.

Maybe I used this link first:

https://www.hertz.com/supporthub/articl ... my-receipt

[PNWpilot]

Car rental counters are now high-pressure boiler rooms looking to upsell. The scripts are sharp, and they prey on tired travelers. The last agent I encountered was very clever and signed me up for the fuel program. He gave me the pitch. I replied "okay, no thanks" and it still wound up on my bill. When I pointed it out to him, he goes "well, you said okay."

I have signed up for just about every membership that allows me to bypass the counter and get the car. These are increasingly "not available" when I arrive. That's usually my first sign that a high-pressure sales pitch is about to follow.

It is truly a Buyer Beware industry.

[edge]

Yes, you were deceived.

I've found that Hertz Gold / 5* / President's Club members and beyond don't get hassled (as much) with these nasty sales tactics.

[beernutz]

Victim

[LotsaGray]

Yes, you were deceived.

I've found that Hertz Gold / 5* / President's Club members and beyond don't get hassled (as much) with these nasty sales tactics.

Asked this of another posted but no reply. What specific deception did Hertz use?

[bd7]

What specific deception did Hertz use?

A deliberate lie of omission. They suggested three alternatives but not the one that they darn well knew that the customer probably wanted. They didn't give him a sales pitch on the virtues of CDW but instead slipped it into the "Basic package". How about I sell you a sandwich and ask you if you want regular, spicy or extra spicy when those actually mean cayenne, habanero and ghost pepper--and I've omitted the "no hot peppers" option. You'd probably go up in flames if you don't like spicy food.

As I have said before, it's not like there aren't plenty of tourist traps and I've seen my share of sharp practices in all sorts of settings, including the usual things like brokers that deny there are any "fees" without mentioning the 5.5% front end load that they get paid out of. So yes, buyer beware is the standard at car rental counters worldwide. However I prefer to do business with straighter and friendlier folks when I can.

You would think a major company like Hertz wouldn't allow excessively abusive practices (but remember the false theft reports) but I have personally seen straight up fraudulent claims from places like Budget and Dollar. I suspect it isn't a company-wide thing as much as a local one, although Eneterprise/National seem to do a better job of curtailing the abuses. One guy told me that I had to buy the insurance because the state required that I have "proof of insurance" when driving there. That was very clever straight up lie of omission because while proof of insurance is indeed required, that state's laws require that the rental company itself provide that proof or a certificate of self-insurance.

[LotsaGray]

What specific deception did Hertz use?

A deliberate lie of omission. They suggested three alternatives but not the one that they darn well knew that the customer probably wanted. They didn't give him a sales pitch on the virtues of CDW but instead slipped it into the "Basic package". How about I sell you a sandwich and ask you if you want regular, spicy or extra spicy when those actually mean cayenne, habanero and ghost pepper--and I've omitted the "no hot peppers" option. You'd probably go up in flames if you don't like spicy food.

As I have said before, it's not like there aren't plenty of tourist traps and I've seen my share of sharp practices in all sorts of settings, including the usual things like brokers that deny there are any "fees" without mentioning the 5.5% front end load that they get paid out of. So yes, buyer beware is the standard at car rental counters worldwide. However I prefer to do business with straighter and friendlier folks when I can.

You would think a major company like Hertz wouldn't allow excessively abusive practices (but remember the false theft reports) but I have personally seen straight up fraudulent claims from places like Budget and Dollar. I suspect it isn't a company-wide thing as much as a local one, although Eneterprise/National seem to do a better job of curtailing the abuses. One guy told me that I had to buy the insurance because the state required that I have "proof of insurance" when driving there. That was very clever straight up lie of omission because while proof of insurance is indeed required, that state's laws require that the rental company itself provide that proof or a certificate of self-insurance.

So if I don’t tell you every single detail of every item I sell, I am being deceptive. If I offer to sell you something but don’t tell you nothing is an option I am deceptive. So if I offer you a car to rent but I don’t tell you that you could use a Uber instead, I am deceptive. Or if I order a latte @nd offer you a flavor but don’t tell you none is an option I am deceptive.

You realize that the items are literally called CDW/LDW _OPTION_ as in optional. You also have two initial that you chose to buy the coverage. It seems clear to me that I have to acknowledge I am purchasing this optional coverage, that not purchasing is an option. The very few times I bought rental CDW it was very clear I was choosing to purchase it.

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

I am still looking for that specific deceptive act. Just saying they should have done more is not a deceptive act. Hertz did nothing to deceive op. Your other strawman anecdotes are not applicable until you can show Hertz did them this time to op.

[Nate79]

A deliberate lie of omission. They suggested three alternatives but not the one that they darn well knew that the customer probably wanted. They didn't give him a sales pitch on the virtues of CDW but instead slipped it into the "Basic package". How about I sell you a sandwich and ask you if you want regular, spicy or extra spicy when those actually mean cayenne, habanero and ghost pepper--and I've omitted the "no hot peppers" option. You'd probably go up in flames if you don't like spicy food.

As I have said before, it's not like there aren't plenty of tourist traps and I've seen my share of sharp practices in all sorts of settings, including the usual things like brokers that deny there are any "fees" without mentioning the 5.5% front end load that they get paid out of. So yes, buyer beware is the standard at car rental counters worldwide. However I prefer to do business with straighter and friendlier folks when I can.

You would think a major company like Hertz wouldn't allow excessively abusive practices (but remember the false theft reports) but I have personally seen straight up fraudulent claims from places like Budget and Dollar. I suspect it isn't a company-wide thing as much as a local one, although Eneterprise/National seem to do a better job of curtailing the abuses. One guy told me that I had to buy the insurance because the state required that I have "proof of insurance" when driving there. That was very clever straight up lie of omission because while proof of insurance is indeed required, that state's laws require that the rental company itself provide that proof or a certificate of self-insurance.

So if I don’t tell you every single detail of every item I sell, I am being deceptive. If I offer to sell you something but don’t tell you nothing is an option I am deceptive. So if I offer you a car to rent but I don’t tell you that you could use a Uber instead, I am deceptive. Or if I order a latte @nd offer you a flavor but don’t tell you none is an option I am deceptive.

You realize that the items are literally called CDW/LDW _OPTION_ as in optional. You also have two initial that you chose to buy the coverage. It seems clear to me that I have to acknowledge I am purchasing this optional coverage, that not purchasing is an option. The very few times I bought rental CDW it was very clear I was choosing to purchase it.

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

I am still looking for that specific deceptive act. Just saying they should have done more is not a deceptive act. Hertz did nothing to deceive op. Your other strawman anecdotes are not applicable until you can show Hertz did them this time to op.

It's called the blame others culture and lack of personal responsibility.

[bd7]

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

Buyers often don't know what they need and may rely on the seller to some degree for this information. If the seller is honest and forthright, they will provide correct and complete information, perhaps along with a sales pitch and then let the buyer decide. That isn't "taking responsibility" for the buyers decision. I understand that many car dealers, rental agencies, life insurance agents, etc etc don't meet my standards for honesty and forthrightness and that it is a shark tank out there. I can deal with that. However I regard all of them as lower than the scum on the bottom of my shoes and much prefer to do business with people who don't behave that way.

The Hertz agent succeeded in "selling" the OP a CDW policy that cost more than his original rental contract. He didn't need or want it. That to me is bad business because while I know there is a profit and commission incentive to sell as much as possible, I don't think it is ethical to do so. I don't think sellers are entitled to take maximal advantage of a buyers ignorance, confusion or fatigue. If they do, they're just nicely dressed pickpockets.

[PeninsulaPerson]

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

I don't think sellers are entitled to take maximal advantage of a buyers ignorance, confusion or fatigue. If they do, they're just nicely dressed pickpockets.

There's a reason why caveat emptor goes back to Roman times.

People are people - both sellers and buyers.

The OP could have said no to the options.

Not saying I love rental car counter folks - I sure don't. But sometimes one needs a rental car and one has to be prepared to rebuff them strongly or stay away.

[bd7]

There's a reason why caveat emptor goes back to Roman times.

But sometimes one needs a rental car and one has to be prepared to rebuff them strongly or stay away.

I understand that buyers need to be alert and aware, but my point is that the buyers vulnerability (or negligence if you prefer) in no way excuses the actions of the seller. And if you accept one level of seller abuse and deceipt as normal and deal with it by "caveat emptor" then they'll just ramp up their game to the next level.

Sure, sometimes you need to deal with sharks and I'm fully capable of that. But if I can, I'll go elsewhere.

[edge]

They presented a poor set of choices as if those were the only ones. Also because it is an ‘auto insurance’ product, there exists the implication that it is required to use the vehicle.

This is clearly a type of deception and in the more regulated spaces of financial services, it would probably be illegal.

Yes, you were deceived.

I've found that Hertz Gold / 5* / President's Club members and beyond don't get hassled (as much) with these nasty sales tactics.

Asked this of another posted but no reply. What specific deception did Hertz use?

[LotsaGray]

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

Buyers often don't know what they need and may rely on the seller to some degree for this information. If the seller is honest and forthright, they will provide correct and complete information, perhaps along with a sales pitch and then let the buyer decide. That isn't "taking responsibility" for the buyers decision. I understand that many car dealers, rental agencies, life insurance agents, etc etc don't meet my standards for honesty and forthrightness and that it is a shark tank out there. I can deal with that. However I regard all of them as lower than the scum on the bottom of my shoes and much prefer to do business with people who don't behave that way.

The Hertz agent succeeded in "selling" the OP a CDW policy that cost more than his original rental contract. He didn't need or want it. That to me is bad business because while I know there is a profit and commission incentive to sell as much as possible, I don't think it is ethical to do so. I don't think sellers are entitled to take maximal advantage of a buyers ignorance, confusion or fatigue. If they do, they're just nicely dressed pickpockets.

I will note you don’t mention any deception in your reply. I have not claimed anything about the actions being ethical or being good business practice or whatever. I stated Hertz did not use deception.

[LotsaGray]

They presented a poor set of choices as if those were the only ones. Also because it is an ‘auto insurance’ product, there exists the implication that it is required to use the vehicle.

This is clearly a type of deception and in the more regulated spaces of financial services, it would probably be illegal.

Asked this of another posted but no reply. What specific deception did Hertz use?

Those choices literally include the word option.

There is a very specific legal reason the do not call them insurance. They are not and are not sold as insurance. They definitely do not imply they are required. That is what you are inferring.

[f8andbethere]

Those choices literally include the word option.

There is a very specific legal reason the do not call them insurance. They are not and are not sold as insurance. They definitely do not imply they are required. That is what you are inferring.

Presenting a list of "options" without disclosing that "none of the above" is also a choice that will still get me into a car suspect.

I've certainly had reps try to sell me a CDW/LDW as "insurance" before and warning me I would not be "covered" if I declined.

On good days rental car reps are ethically dubious. On bad days they lie and cheat.

[edge]

I think perhaps you don’t understand the meaning of deception.

“(of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some advantage.”

It is absolutely the case that car rental companies present information in a way that intends to make their customers believe something that is not true - with the aim of extracting more profit.

They presented a poor set of choices as if those were the only ones. Also because it is an ‘auto insurance’ product, there exists the implication that it is required to use the vehicle.

This is clearly a type of deception and in the more regulated spaces of financial services, it would probably be illegal.

Those choices literally include the word option.

There is a very specific legal reason the do not call them insurance. They are not and are not sold as insurance. They definitely do not imply they are required. That is what you are inferring.

[LotsaGray]

Those choices literally include the word option.

There is a very specific legal reason the do not call them insurance. They are not and are not sold as insurance. They definitely do not imply they are required. That is what you are inferring.

Presenting a list of "options" without disclosing that "none of the above" is also a choice that will still get me into a car suspect.

I've certainly had reps try to sell me a CDW/LDW as "insurance" before and warning me I would not be "covered" if I declined.

On good days rental car reps are ethically dubious. On bad days they lie and cheat.

But that is not what happened here. Rep never called it insurance.

OP stated he knows the coverage is optional because he normally turns it down. So what did he think the package he was buying was for? Since he admittedly knows turning down coverage is an option, not saying it is not a deception. He was distracted and likely in a rush but Hertz did nothing deceptive.

[dratkinson]

Found these interesting YT videos from a lawyer presenter about Hertz shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ehto+hertz
(Recall presenter may prefer Enterprise, but my memory may be faulty.)

[LotsaGray]

I think perhaps you don’t understand the meaning of deception.

“(of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some advantage.”

It is absolutely the case that car rental companies present information in a way that intends to make their customers believe something that is not true - with the aim of extracting more profit.

Those choices literally include the word option.

There is a very specific legal reason the do not call them insurance. They are not and are not sold as insurance. They definitely do not imply they are required. That is what you are inferring.

These are literally called options when you initial your acceptance. An option is obviously optional.

Plus OP already stated he normally refuses. So he obviously knows he does not need to purchase.

What did he think the packages offered were? What did he think he was buying?

He knows CDW/LDW is optional. Hertz gave him a choice of packages. These packages are literally called options on the iffcial paperwork. OP selected a package. So precisely where is the deception?

OP was distracted and made a choice not to pay complete attention. How is that on Hertz?

[criticalmass]

So if I don’t tell you every single detail of every item I sell, I am being deceptive. If I offer to sell you something but don’t tell you nothing is an option I am deceptive. So if I offer you a car to rent but I don’t tell you that you could use a Uber instead, I am deceptive. Or if I order a latte @nd offer you a flavor but don’t tell you none is an option I am deceptive.

You realize that the items are literally called CDW/LDW _OPTION_ as in optional. You also have two initial that you chose to buy the coverage. It seems clear to me that I have to acknowledge I am purchasing this optional coverage, that not purchasing is an option. The very few times I bought rental CDW it was very clear I was choosing to purchase it.

The fact is anytime you are buying from someone, they have incentive to sell you as much as you will purchase. But the buyer is also incented to know what they w@nt and need. It isn’t the seller’s responsibility to decide what you are going to purchase.

I am still looking for that specific deceptive act. Just saying they should have done more is not a deceptive act. Hertz did nothing to deceive op. Your other strawman anecdotes are not applicable until you can show Hertz did them this time to op.

It's called the blame others culture and lack of personal responsibility.

Nephew worked at a car rental company in college. It was standard operating practice to present false dichotomies, omit no extra alternatives, etc. to pump up add on sales. I guess we shouldn’t be too surprised that this model has its fans.

[criticalmass]

I think perhaps you don’t understand the meaning of deception.

“(of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some advantage.”

It is absolutely the case that car rental companies present information in a way that intends to make their customers believe something that is not true - with the aim of extracting more profit.

These are literally called options when you initial your acceptance. An option is obviously optional.

Plus OP already stated he normally refuses. So he obviously knows he does not need to purchase.

What did he think the packages offered were? What did he think he was buying?

He knows CDW/LDW is optional. Hertz gave him a choice of packages. These packages are literally called options on the iffcial paperwork. OP selected a package. So precisely where is the deception?

OP was distracted and made a choice not to pay complete attention. How is that on Hertz?

Creating confusion, presenting false dichotomies, or omitting the mentioning extra insurance while selling the extra insurance add on is unfortunately how companies behave now. And this model has support in the BH community.
Congratulations to the OP for getting the unwanted charges waived by following up with company and explaining what happened.

[bd7]

I will note you don’t mention any deception in your reply. I have not claimed anything about the actions being ethical or being good business practice or whatever. I stated Hertz did not use deception.

I was responding to the statement you made and which I quoted that does not mention deception, so of course my response is also not about deception. I've responded to your statements regarding deception elsewhere.