For Over-Savers: Now what?

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TheTimeLord
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by TheTimeLord »

yankees60 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:47 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:17 pm

Same here. There's no such thing as "enough". Or to rephrase, regarding material quality of life, "enough" is very easy to achieve. But the wealth-building quest is boundless. The only question is risk vs. reward, or fear vs. greed.

Assuming that my portfolio keeps increasing (NOT by any means a certainty!), my lifestyle probably... won't. Besides, there will be more taxes to pay.
"There's no such thing as "enough". "

I have many times said that!

Also, described myself as the Security Seeking Personality.
Mike Piper is going to be very disappointed to hear that.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
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CraigTester
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by CraigTester »

AlohaBill wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:44 am Hi Craig Tester,
What do you hope to get out of these replies? You seem to always ask pertinent questions. Keep up the good work! 🫵🤙🌺🌴
It's the kind of question that you have to be sorta careful asking in "real life", for obvious reasons....., Yet, I suspected I wasn't alone in thinking about it....

And as per usual, the forum hasn't disappointed in revealing a lot of ways to solve these types of riddles where a single right answer doesn't exist.

In our own case, we could certainly give and spend more... But had we done that 10 years ago would we be happier today ...?

I think the answer is no... (because taken to extreme, we would no longer be able to participate in conversations like this. :happy )

And we could also significantly tilt our AA either more or less aggressively than 50-50, yet there is a nagging gut-level resistance to doing so....

So my DW and I seem to have defaulted to number 5, but as we arrived at that answer by "default", I suspect we won't ever stop asking the question...,

So we thank everyone for sharing how you think through the trade-offs...

Keep em coming....
Harmanic
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Harmanic »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:08 pm
Harmanic wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:07 pm

There are stories of billionaires who lost everything. So you never know.
Good point. By having pet insurance the idiot billionaire might still be a thousandairre.
It's what allows Bill Huang to sleep at night! :idea:
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rs9876lg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rs9876lg »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:08 pm
Harmanic wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:07 pm

There are stories of billionaires who lost everything. So you never know.
Good point. By having pet insurance the idiot billionaire might still be a thousandairre.
Who are calling a billionaire? I take offense at that terminology 😀
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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

simplesimon wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:09 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:05 am

How do you know it “finally feels like” you’re done?
Like many Bogleheads, when they're on their death bed.

Person you quoted said elsewhere that all they'll need is a 1.8% SWR.
I think I can reach it by 55... but other people on here have said "Keep your head down and don't look up until you hit $10m", so I might not feel good about quitting until I get there. Which probably wouldn't be until I'm 70.
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anon_investor
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by anon_investor »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm For those out there that find yourselves with more than you "need" (e.g. +30X, 40X, 50X, 100X, etc) how do you proceed?

1) Buy a bigger house, fancier car, more travel, etc

2) Give the extra away while you're still living to charity, kids, etc.

3) De-risk AA.

4) Add-risk to AA to try to get even richer.

5) Just enjoy having a big "buffer", just-in-case.

6) Other?
If not yet in retirement, retire immediately. If in retirement, use the excess to help family (help kids with big life purchases or pay for grand kids' college, etc.) or pay for nice experiences with family (cools trips).
ThankYouJack
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by ThankYouJack »

yankees60 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:47 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:17 pm

Same here. There's no such thing as "enough". Or to rephrase, regarding material quality of life, "enough" is very easy to achieve. But the wealth-building quest is boundless. The only question is risk vs. reward, or fear vs. greed.

Assuming that my portfolio keeps increasing (NOT by any means a certainty!), my lifestyle probably... won't. Besides, there will be more taxes to pay.
"There's no such thing as "enough". "

I have many times said that!

Also, described myself as the Security Seeking Personality.
There's definitely such thing as enough. It takes more of an abundance mindset instead of a scarcity mindset. I suggest Mike Piper's book "More Than Enough" for those with with 50x...100x...or whatever who still feel they don't have enough.
jhblegend
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by jhblegend »

Normchad wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 1:08 pm Your final account reconciliation will happen at your death. Until then, you don’t truly know if you’ve over saved or not.

I do,however think that I have over saved. I will allow,though there is a possibility that I’m wrong, and that I will,die destitute, under a bridge, eating cat food.

Really sure that won’t happen though. So,I’m losenung up the purse strings. And when I croak, whatever is left will go to the kid.

I just bought a new car. It took a long time to locate one to my liking; it was out of state. I bought it sight unseen and had it shipped to me. There are a bunch of junk fees in there that I didn’t protest. I paid MSRP, but probably could have paid a bit less there too. But I just yolo’d it, and told them to ship it to me….. I know I could have saved 3-6K on it.i don’t want the hassle that would be required to get that….

So I’ll spend more than I ever have. And if the markets behave in any historically typical way, then I’ll die with some money in the bank.
I enjoyed reading your post. The "yolo" part on the MSRP and fees and all that. I am far from that point, so I do dig into every nook and cranny (for better or for worse, I do.) But that mindset of eliminating hassle is attractive down the road I think.
Penelope8735
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Penelope8735 »

Now what?

Doing nothing much different. But it's nice to be less affected by concerns for where money will come from in the future.

Shifting habits a little. Transferring chunks of money to younger family who are investing now - those who are good natured and not spenders.

Shifting from investing excess income/dividends into the funds, to doing Roth Conversions and paying estimated income tax.

Still watching for occasional disconnects between portfolio fund performances, and spiking a timely reallocation.

Shifting to fun investing/fund management, from investing to achieve wealth goals.
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simplesimon
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by simplesimon »

CraigTester wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:41 pm In our own case, we could certainly give and spend more... But had we done that 10 years ago would we be happier today ...?

I think the answer is no...
If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
sailaway
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by sailaway »

simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am
CraigTester wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:41 pm In our own case, we could certainly give and spend more... But had we done that 10 years ago would we be happier today ...?

I think the answer is no...
If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
This statement seems to forget what the market has been like for the last 10 years. It is quite feasible that 10 years ago someone barely had enough to feel comfortable and now they are amazed at their own abundance.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by DSBH »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm 2) Give the extra away while you're still living to charity, kids, etc.
6) Other?
6a - Get the financial house in better order (e.g. investment simplifications, Roth conversions),
6b - Improve health in general (e.g. better teeth, proper exercise, better diet),
6c - Obtain good estate planning practice,
6d - Pay for some hobbies.

Overall: nothing extravagant, and thankful to be so fortunate.
John C. Bogle: "Never confuse genius with luck and a bull market".
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simplesimon
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by simplesimon »

sailaway wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:57 am
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am

If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
This statement seems to forget what the market has been like for the last 10 years. It is quite feasible that 10 years ago someone barely had enough to feel comfortable and now they are amazed at their own abundance.
It's more likely that instead of feeling amazed at the abundance, they feel worried that they'll go back to barely having enough. OP says it's likely they'll never stop asking the question. The higher number itself doesn't solve the anxiety.
sailaway
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by sailaway »

simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:39 am
sailaway wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:57 am

This statement seems to forget what the market has been like for the last 10 years. It is quite feasible that 10 years ago someone barely had enough to feel comfortable and now they are amazed at their own abundance.
It's more likely that instead of feeling amazed at the abundance, they feel worried that they'll go back to barely having enough. OP says it's likely they'll never stop asking the question. The higher number itself doesn't solve the anxiety.
I was responding to you comment about someone who is increasing giving now, but don't think they would have felt comfortable doings so 10 ago. AKA, someone who does feel the abundance now.
Normchad
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Normchad »

sailaway wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:57 am
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am

If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
This statement seems to forget what the market has been like for the last 10 years. It is quite feasible that 10 years ago someone barely had enough to feel comfortable and now they are amazed at their own abundance.
This is a great point that often gets overlooked. Did I oversave? I don’t know. I know I’ve got enough, and more than I planned for. But I never planned for the huge run up in investments that happened over the last 15 years.

In 2009, when I was 40, and the entire global financial market was cratering, people seriously had concerns about a permanent collapse of everything. And at that time, nobody was predicting the start of a 15 year bull market. So, all,I could do is save, save, save.

Maybe that’s a better way to say it. I saved prudently, but investment returns were unexpectedly awesome. Therefore, I overshot my original goal.
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WoodSpinner
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by WoodSpinner »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm For those out there that find yourselves with more than you "need" (e.g. +30X, 40X, 50X, 100X, etc) how do you proceed?

1) Buy a bigger house, fancier car, more travel, etc

2) Give the extra away while you're still living to charity, kids, etc.

3) De-risk AA.

4) Add-risk to AA to try to get even richer.

5) Just enjoy having a big "buffer", just-in-case.

6) Other?
Pretty much all of the above at various points along the journey. For us, the key is to spend on things that are priorities for us.

Personally, the buffer acts as a good metric for making Cashflow decisions.

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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by minesweep »

I don't know if I over saved. What I do know is the power of compounding did most of the heavy lifting, especially during my retirement years (soon to be 24). 95% of my TIRA (11% of portfolio) will go to charity. I've been doing QCD's and gifting to my heirs along the way. Agree with the other poster who said, "being self-insured for LTC, means never having to type the words over saved". Also, having a buffer for any other major expense that may arise or a luxury or frivolous item that I may want to splurge on.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy - John Bogle | Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others, it's cheaper! - John Bogle
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simplesimon
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by simplesimon »

sailaway wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:45 am
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:39 am

It's more likely that instead of feeling amazed at the abundance, they feel worried that they'll go back to barely having enough. OP says it's likely they'll never stop asking the question. The higher number itself doesn't solve the anxiety.
I was responding to you comment about someone who is increasing giving now, but don't think they would have felt comfortable doings so 10 ago. AKA, someone who does feel the abundance now.
But OP is not giving more away. They are just sitting and staring at their growing cushion.
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beernutz
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by beernutz »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm For those out there that find yourselves with more than you "need" (e.g. +30X, 40X, 50X, 100X, etc) how do you proceed?

1) Buy a bigger house, fancier car, more travel, etc

2) Give the extra away while you're still living to charity, kids, etc.

3) De-risk AA.

4) Add-risk to AA to try to get even richer.

5) Just enjoy having a big "buffer", just-in-case.

6) Other?
We're doing all of them. For the first 2 years of my retirement I did #3 but now as spending, inflows, and obligations become clearer we're doing #4.
AA: 45%/37%/18% - equities/positive return-zero volatility/bonds
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22twain
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by 22twain »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:10 pm 1) Buy a bigger house, fancier car, more travel, etc.
No on the bigger house or fancier car. Nor are we into cruises, luxury resorts or far-flung destination travel.

I have increased my travel to hobby-related events. Now, I stay for 1-2 nights for events that I did as long day-trips in the past, and travel further to places that I would not have done as day-trip previously. I've also upped my accommodations from Motel 6 / Super 8 / Days Inn level to Hampton Inn level. Nevertheless, I'm still likely to walk over to a nearby supermarket to pick up a sandwich or microwave entree to take back to my room for supper. I'm just not a "foodie".
3) De-risk AA.

4) Add-risk to AA to try to get even richer.
Basically, I just let my AA drift (mostly) upwards, without rebalancing.
5) Just enjoy having a big "buffer", just-in-case.
This. Our combined Social Security covers our current living expenses, and we have a large cushion for new cars, healthcare, future CCRC (in 5-10 years or so), etc.

Our "extra" money doesn't burn holes in our pockets. We have a general lifestyle that we're comfortable with. If we see a need, or a serious "want", we'll spend for it. But we're not looking for excuses to spend money just because we have it.
Principal, not principle. Roth, not ROTH. IRMAA, not IRRMA or IRMMA.
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CraigTester
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by CraigTester »

simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:57 am
sailaway wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:45 am

I was responding to you comment about someone who is increasing giving now, but don't think they would have felt comfortable doings so 10 ago. AKA, someone who does feel the abundance now.
But OP is not giving more away. They are just sitting and staring at their growing cushion.
Do you think there is a "multiple-of-X" where money just burns such a hole in your pocket that action needs to be taken today... versus growing it even more over time for an even bigger estate or splurge....?
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simplesimon
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by simplesimon »

CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:01 am
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:57 am

But OP is not giving more away. They are just sitting and staring at their growing cushion.
Do you think there is a "multiple-of-X" where money just burns such a hole in your pocket that action needs to be taken today... versus growing it even more over time for an even bigger estate or splurge....?
I don't think about it as a function of X - it should be conscious today. Just like you would make an adjustment if disaster struck, I would make an adjustment if good fortune strikes. Letting it grow for a bigger estate is fine and all but not very imaginative.
rockstar
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rockstar »

Upgrade stuff that’s old.

I’m upgrading to a 77 inch OLED next week.

I’m sure you have stuff that needs replacing that you’ve kicked the can in doing. I know I need a new roof in five years.
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CraigTester
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by CraigTester »

simplesimon wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:23 am
CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:01 am

Do you think there is a "multiple-of-X" where money just burns such a hole in your pocket that action needs to be taken today... versus growing it even more over time for an even bigger estate or splurge....?
I don't think about it as a function of X - it should be conscious today. Just like you would make an adjustment if disaster struck, I would make an adjustment if good fortune strikes. Letting it grow for a bigger estate is fine and all but not very imaginative.
The "SWR calculations/models" were born from a premise of making just barely enough money stretch as far as possible....

And if a retiree doesn't really have enough to meet their minimum living needs, this certainly makes a ton of sense.

However for those super-savers out there, suddenly changing to a paradigm where you now "spend as much as you can" may not be the most intuitive path...

Perhaps some people are just natural spenders, and others are natural savers... and both believe in their bones theirs is the way that feels the most natural...

As for imaginative, what if the super-saver imagines how that big estate they will one day leave will really have a positive impact on someone....

And as a significant bonus, along the way (and even near the end) they imagine they will always feel like they are rich... and didn't just waste it on something they only bought because they felt like they could...
JPM
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by JPM »

Hired people to do stuff we used to do like lawn & garden, snow removal, house cleaners, some handyman stuff.
More gifts to adult children et charities.
Putting grandkids thru undergrad and will probably help with grad/professional school if &when the time comes for that.
That's it so far.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by KlangFool »

CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:32 pm
As for imaginative, what if the super-saver imagines how that big estate they will one day leave will really have a positive impact on someone....
CraigTester,

Or, if the super-saver learnt from his/her thousands plus years of family history that

Wealth does not passed 3 generations.

Hence, the big estate does not really has a significant positive impact on someone. Something else does. Family honor and reputation does. Aka, the family name means something to many people.

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simplesimon
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by simplesimon »

CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:32 pm However for those super-savers out there, suddenly changing to a paradigm where you now "spend as much as you can" may not be the most intuitive path...

Perhaps some people are just natural spenders, and others are natural savers... and both believe in their bones theirs is the way that feels the most natural...
This is a bit too deterministic for me. Yes it takes work to change. Just speaking from my own experience I've made some big psychological shifts over the past couple of years and it's been liberating to know when to not use cost as the main factor in determining value.
CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:32 pm As for imaginative, what if the super-saver imagines how that big estate they will one day leave will really have a positive impact on someone....

And as a significant bonus, along the way (and even near the end) they imagine they will always feel like they are rich... and didn't just waste it on something they only bought because they felt like they could...
I don't believe it's an either/or proposition. One can both leave a legacy and spend money to brings themselves joy. I never suggested wasting money, but that is a judgment that should be left to the individual. What you consider wasteful and frivolous could be very meaningful to someone else and vice versa.
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CraigTester
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by CraigTester »

simplesimon wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:21 pm
CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:32 pm However for those super-savers out there, suddenly changing to a paradigm where you now "spend as much as you can" may not be the most intuitive path...

Perhaps some people are just natural spenders, and others are natural savers... and both believe in their bones theirs is the way that feels the most natural...
This is a bit too deterministic for me. Yes it takes work to change. Just speaking from my own experience I've made some big psychological shifts over the past couple of years and it's been liberating to know when to not use cost as the main factor in determining value.
CraigTester wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:32 pm As for imaginative, what if the super-saver imagines how that big estate they will one day leave will really have a positive impact on someone....

And as a significant bonus, along the way (and even near the end) they imagine they will always feel like they are rich... and didn't just waste it on something they only bought because they felt like they could...
I don't believe it's an either/or proposition. One can both leave a legacy and spend money to brings themselves joy. I never suggested wasting money, but that is a judgment that should be left to the individual. What you consider wasteful and frivolous could be very meaningful to someone else and vice versa.
I think your last sentence perhaps sums up the "Now-What?" answer to the question of the thread, quite nicely.

Perhaps independent of one's multiple-of-X's, savers will just keep saving, and spenders will just keep spending....

And we seem to have strong advocates of both positions sprinkled through all of the above comments....

But I remain interested if anyone out there switched from saver to spender after reaching a sufficiently high portfolio value...?

The math does arguably support the idea of drawing a line at say 30X and just aggressively spending anything that exceeds...
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by KlangFool »

CraigTester wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 2:24 pm
simplesimon wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:21 pm

This is a bit too deterministic for me. Yes it takes work to change. Just speaking from my own experience I've made some big psychological shifts over the past couple of years and it's been liberating to know when to not use cost as the main factor in determining value.



I don't believe it's an either/or proposition. One can both leave a legacy and spend money to brings themselves joy. I never suggested wasting money, but that is a judgment that should be left to the individual. What you consider wasteful and frivolous could be very meaningful to someone else and vice versa.
I think your last sentence perhaps sums up the "Now-What?" answer to the question of the thread, quite nicely.

Perhaps independent of one's multiple-of-X's, savers will just keep saving, and spenders will just keep spending....

And we seem to have strong advocates of both positions sprinkled through all of the above comments....

But I remain interested if anyone out there switched from saver to spender after reaching a sufficiently high portfolio value...?

The math does arguably support the idea of drawing a line at say 30X and just aggressively spending anything that exceeds...
CraigTester,

If you believe that you should pull all those money out of your portfolio and put into a "to be spent" pool.

I am harvesting 50K cash for every 100K of portfolio growth exceed 2M.

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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Top nursing homes go for 80 to $100k a year. Live large in the final decade 💰 🔥
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by sailaway »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:24 pm Top nursing homes go for 80 to $100k a year. Live large in the final decade 💰 🔥
The average is closer to $120k. Can't imagine what top might be.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

sailaway wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:33 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:24 pm Top nursing homes go for 80 to $100k a year. Live large in the final decade 💰 🔥
The average is closer to $120k. Can't imagine what top might be.
Seems $1M per person for Elder care (age 90 and above) is not overkill
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
rs9876lg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rs9876lg »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:21 pm
sailaway wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:33 pm

The average is closer to $120k. Can't imagine what top might be.
Seems $1M per person for Elder care (age 90 and above) is not overkill
Is that enough? I have heard quarter million per person per year
sailaway
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by sailaway »

rs9876lg wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:33 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:21 pm

Seems $1M per person for Elder care (age 90 and above) is not overkill
Is that enough? I have heard quarter million per person per year
Good news is you aren't likely to need it for long...
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Dunningedangkruger »

Certainly if someone has 9 figures or more you have the ability to bankroll any unforeseen circumstance.

But that is rarefied air.

Events that could be devastating financially:

Child or grandchild sustains illness or injury that requires lifelong care.

You sustain the same type event and cannot save more, work more or control your destiny.

How much money and planning would it take to overcome something like that? A lot.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by TheTimeLord »

simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am
CraigTester wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:41 pm In our own case, we could certainly give and spend more... But had we done that 10 years ago would we be happier today ...?

I think the answer is no...
If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
Probably because more than a few people really enjoy their jobs.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by jebmke »

TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:46 pm
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am

If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
Probably because more than a few people really enjoy their jobs.
Quite a bit of what I have done in volunteer work has been very similar to what I did professionally. Some different challenges with non-profits but a lot of the principles are the same.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by yankees60 »

TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:46 pm
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am

If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
Probably because more than a few people really enjoy their jobs.
Yes!
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

rs9876lg wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:33 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:21 pm

Seems $1M per person for Elder care (age 90 and above) is not overkill
Is that enough? I have heard quarter million per person per year
That would kill me! 😜 ⚰️
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rs9876lg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rs9876lg »

Well, that is one way of conditioning your mind set to go from over-savers to under-saver. This way when somebody asks if is it safe to live on 2% starting at age 70, we can always answer it as "NO, not unless you have comfortable 9-digits (no pennies please) in assets"

Now all the humble brags can be easily deflated.

(Do I need to put smiley faces explicitly for the folks who have no sense of humor?)
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by smitcat »

TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:46 pm
simplesimon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:50 am

If that money has no utility then you effectively worked for free. Why do that to yourself?
Probably because more than a few people really enjoy their jobs.
For folks that really enjoy what they do that is a great observation.
For those that have forgotten what the purpose of funds was for... there is often no escape.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by HooCares »

I think one of the ironies of oversavers is that for with the same amount of money, an over saver can spend more than a “just enough” saver.

Take 2 people, both with $1 million dollars.

Person 1
$30k fixed annual expenses

Personal 2
$40k fixed annual expenses

Person 1 could withdraw 5% and spend $20k on fun extra stuff — high end vacations or some new toys. If the portfolio doesnt perform they can skip a vacation this year.

Person 2 needs to stick to 4% because they don’t have the flexibility of being able to weather a poor performing portfolio.

5% is likely to work out in most markets, but would person 2 risk it?
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by bmelikia »

Mayacallie wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:21 am We are somewhat north of 200X, and we’re not changing anything in our lifestyle. Frivolous spending offends me, and deprives my charities and kids.
I don’t like Rolexes, German cars or houses bigger than 2500 sq ft. I’ve stopped chasing asset allocation and settled at 85/15/5, which should skew more equity heavy as I age, but who knows? Travel/sports is reasonably close to home- at most a 2 hour flight.
So. . .my question is. . .200x sounds like a lot. . .what is your "x" value?
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rs9876lg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rs9876lg »

Median x is 100k from what I have gathered reading many replies on the forum. I have seen 250k on high side and 60k on low
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CraigTester
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by CraigTester »

HooCares wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:59 am I think one of the ironies of oversavers is that for with the same amount of money, an over saver can spend more than a “just enough” saver.

Take 2 people, both with $1 million dollars.

Person 1
$30k fixed annual expenses

Personal 2
$40k fixed annual expenses

Person 1 could withdraw 5% and spend $20k on fun extra stuff — high end vacations or some new toys. If the portfolio doesnt perform they can skip a vacation this year.

Person 2 needs to stick to 4% because they don’t have the flexibility of being able to weather a poor performing portfolio.

5% is likely to work out in most markets, but would person 2 risk it?
Are you saying Person 1 has retained their "option" to buy more in the future....

This is the way I tend to think about it as well....., but at some point the value of the option is dependent on "time"....

That's what makes this topic so hard to pin down....
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TheTimeLord
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by TheTimeLord »

rs9876lg wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 11:49 am Median x is 100k from what I have gathered reading many replies on the forum. I have seen 250k on high side and 60k on low
Are you saying their X or their estimated annual expenses. There is a fairly large thread on people retiring with under $1 million which implies an X of under $40k.
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bmelikia
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by bmelikia »

rs9876lg wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 11:49 am Median x is 100k from what I have gathered reading many replies on the forum. I have seen 250k on high side and 60k on low
I get that, but specifically someone with 200x (for whatever their "x" is) is unusual. . .I feel like I see more 25x, 30x, 35x targets for people

200 x 200k = 40,000,000 portfolio
200 x 150k = 30,000,000 portfolio
200 x 100k = 20,000,000 portfolio
200 x 50k = 10,000,000 portfolio
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | A time to EVALUATE your jitters https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
rs9876lg
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by rs9876lg »

I am guessing they have between 20-40M

I I had to guess a single number I will say they have 31.4159M
prioritarian
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by prioritarian »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:37 pm OP,

Spend more money.

A) More travels

B) Better coffee and tea

C) Better food.

KlangFool
It takes little additional money to purchase extremely high-quality food. As for travel, we enormously decreased our travel many years ago due to its negative externalities. I'm hoping that I can give away something like 90% of my investments because I'm completely disinterested in spending more money -- to me this would be a low-quality lifestyle.
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Re: For Over-Savers: Now what?

Post by KlangFool »

prioritarian wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 3:04 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:37 pm OP,

Spend more money.

A) More travels

B) Better coffee and tea

C) Better food.

KlangFool
It takes little additional money to purchase extremely high-quality food. As for travel, we enormously decreased our travel many years ago due to its negative externalities. I'm hoping that I can give away something like 90% of my investments because I'm completely disinterested in spending more money -- to me this would be a low-quality lifestyle.
prioritarian,

A) I guess you are not interested in any tea more expensive than its weight in gold.

B) "As for travel, we enormously decreased our travel many years ago due to its negative externalities. "

Every now and then, you may need to go out and visit your friends and family around the world.

C) To each its own. You earn it and you get to decide how to spend it.

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