Metlife Legal Services Plan

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
bat_man__
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:29 pm

Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bat_man__ »

It's open enrollment season, and this year is significant for me since my partner and I got married in 2024 and are considering a post-nuptial agreement. I noticed the Enhanced Metlife plan offers Postnuptial Agreements.

As a first-time user of legal plans, I'd appreciate any insights. According to the terms, it seems like plan provides access to a network lawyer anytime during the year, with some hour limits.

"No more than a combined maximum total of fifteen (Enhanced) / four (Basic) hours of attorney time and service are provided for the member, spouse, and qualified dependents, annually."

Assuming 15 hours is sufficient for drafting a post-nup it could all be covered for me. My spouse will retain their own attorney (maybe through Metlife too if their employer offers it, otherwise a freelancer). We are based in Seattle, WA if that matters.

Does anyone have firsthand experience with Metlife's legal plans?
  • How is finding and working with a network attorney?
  • General reviews of the plan's effectiveness?
  • Post/Pre-nuptial agreement drafting?
Thanks!
runner3081
Posts: 6313
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by runner3081 »

Harmanic
Posts: 1893
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:19 am

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by Harmanic »

It's good. It works a lot like health insurance where the lawyer bills the insurance directly.

We've used it for estate planning, wills, and traffic violations. The cost is fairly low.
The question isn't at what age I want to retire, it's at what income. | - George Foreman
David S
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Atlanta

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by David S »

I would agree with Harmanic.
We had a very good experience with the service. Chose a local attorney to have wills revised, POAs, Advanced Health Care Directives and a revocable trust.
Well worth the money and the system is easy to use.
bsteiner
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bsteiner »

These plans work well for routine matters, but not for non-routine matters.

Since wealth is much more unevenly distributed than income, they work well for many people with modest amounts of assets and conventional situations. However, they don't work well for people with larger amounts of assets, or more complicated situations.

One client used such a plan to refinance the mortgage on his house. That worked well.

On the other hand, a woman with a modest estate (about $1.5 million) used such a plan for her Will. She had two adult daughters, left her estate to them equally, and named them both as executors. However, one daughter was mentally ill, the other had a taxable estate of her own, and they didn't talk to each other except through their separate counsel. We represeted one of the daughters. Fortunately I got along well with the other daughter's lawyers, and our client disclaimed most of her interest in favor of her child who was an adult and responsible. But it would have worked out much better if the decedent had used a good lawyer not in the plan.

A postnuptial agreement is more difficult than a prenuptial agreement since it's more vulnerable to a challenge based on pressure by the richer spouse. So I don't know whether a lawyer who participates in the plan would be appropriate for the richer spouse.
Topic Author
bat_man__
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:29 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bat_man__ »

Harmanic wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:41 pm It's good. It works a lot like health insurance where the lawyer bills the insurance directly.

We've used it for estate planning, wills, and traffic violations. The cost is fairly low
Thanks for the insight, I am leaning towards signing up and checking it out next year. Worst case it'll be a ~$200 learning
Topic Author
bat_man__
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:29 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bat_man__ »

bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:43 am A postnuptial agreement is more difficult than a prenuptial agreement since it's more vulnerable to a challenge based on pressure by the richer spouse. So I don't know whether a lawyer who participates in the plan would be appropriate for the richer spouse.
That's definitely something to consider. I wish there was some way I could look up the lawyers in my area before making this decision. I'll call the hotline and see what I can find.

Your point of it being more complex aligns with the plan offerings. They've always offered prenupital agreement but only this year they've added post.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 17545
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by ResearchMed »

bat_man__ wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:26 pm It's open enrollment season, and this year is significant for me since my partner and I got married in 2024 and are considering a post-nuptial agreement. I noticed the Enhanced Metlife plan offers Postnuptial Agreements.

As a first-time user of legal plans, I'd appreciate any insights. According to the terms, it seems like plan provides access to a network lawyer anytime during the year, with some hour limits.

"No more than a combined maximum total of fifteen (Enhanced) / four (Basic) hours of attorney time and service are provided for the member, spouse, and qualified dependents, annually."

Assuming 15 hours is sufficient for drafting a post-nup it could all be covered for me. My spouse will retain their own attorney (maybe through Metlife too if their employer offers it, otherwise a freelancer). We are based in Seattle, WA if that matters.

Does anyone have firsthand experience with Metlife's legal plans?
  • How is finding and working with a network attorney?
  • General reviews of the plan's effectiveness?
  • Post/Pre-nuptial agreement drafting?
Thanks!

We are in the process of using the MetLife Legal plan to re-do wills/trust docs, etc.

It turned out that we also wanted to make/add some new customed wording, something specific to our current situation. That wasn't "included" in the plan coverage for those documents. There would be bn extra charge IF we wanted to include that extra work.
However, this year, the Metlife plan added an extra cash amount for other legal issues that aren't otherwise covered. The total of the new cash coverage was just slightly more than the extra cost quoted to us, so that will be nice.

We will probably continue the coverage once it is no longer available through Employer (due to partial retirement). IF we let the plan lapse, we can't get it backs But time will tell...
The extra cash available for legal services is nice to have just in case. We know we'll use it this first year.
The monthly fee is quite modest.

No, we don't yet have the work completed.
It seems it will be someone boilerplate, but now we'll be able to customize a bit without paying out of pocket.
That will work fine for our current needs.

It was a bit difficult to find an attorney thorugh the plan (or, one that would return our call...).
bat_man__ wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:10 pm Thanks for the insight, I am leaning towards signing up and checking it out next year. Worst case it'll be a ~$200 learning
This was part of our thinking.
If it works, great; if not, we "wasted" a very small amount of what we'll have to pay to have this done "privately".
In our case, we've got old documents, so we have some idea of what we want/want to change.

In your case, IF it isn't what you ultimately want, then perhaps consider the ~$200 as a relatively inexpensive "practice round". That should also help you think more about what issues you might want to consider if you work with another attorney later to do it - and to do this *with* an attorney who can help with prompts, etc. That might even save 1/2 or an hour of more expensive time "learning about" some of the things you might want to be discussing later. (I don't know if it would work that way, but hopefully, at a minimum, you'd get acquainted with some of the issues that are likely to be dealt with in advance of the actual post-nup process.)

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
bsteiner
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bsteiner »

bat_man__ wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:14 pm
bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:43 am A postnuptial agreement is more difficult than a prenuptial agreement since it's more vulnerable to a challenge based on pressure by the richer spouse. So I don't know whether a lawyer who participates in the plan would be appropriate for the richer spouse.
That's definitely something to consider. I wish there was some way I could look up the lawyers in my area before making this decision. I'll call the hotline and see what I can find.

Your point of it being more complex aligns with the plan offerings. They've always offered prenupital agreement but only this year they've added post.
There's a good deal of work involved in a prenuptial agreement as well. Are the lawyers in the plan able to do those well enough for it to make sense to use them for that?
User avatar
Eric
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:44 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by Eric »

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:50 pmIt was a bit difficult to find an attorney thorugh the plan (or, one that would return our call...).
I'm not surprised.

My wife and I are both estate planning attorneys (though I've given up regular practice in favor of teaching). Many years ago, when we were still newish lawyers, my wife was approached by a prepaid legal plan to be included in their network. They offered her $100 per will, which even then (and even for a young lawyer) was wildly under market. When she asked them about this, they said that she should view wills as a loss leader for other legal work.

So participants in that plan, at least, got either (1) a lawyer who was so desperate for business that they would accept any fee or (2) a lawyer who viewed wills as a loss leader, not their core work. I occasionally hear more favorable reports about other plans, but I don't know any estate planning specialists myself who participate in them.
bsteiner
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bsteiner »

Eric wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:12 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:50 pmIt was a bit difficult to find an attorney thorugh the plan (or, one that would return our call...).
I'm not surprised.

My wife and I are both estate planning attorneys (though I've given up regular practice in favor of teaching). Many years ago, when we were still newish lawyers, my wife was approached by a prepaid legal plan to be included in their network. They offered her $100 per will, which even then (and even for a young lawyer) was wildly under market. When she asked them about this, they said that she should view wills as a loss leader for other legal work.

So participants in that plan, at least, got either (1) a lawyer who was so desperate for business that they would accept any fee or (2) a lawyer who viewed wills as a loss leader, not their core work. I occasionally hear more favorable reports about other plans, but I don't know any estate planning specialists myself who participate in them.
I know several lawyers, one in this plan, and a couple in various plans.

The one in this plan gets a few hundred dollars for a basic Will. It may be sufficient for people with modest assets and uncomplicated situations. It helps him fill up his time. He can try to upsell them a revocable trust for which they'll pay more, though he's in New Jersey so he has to be careful with that.

Another takes various plans, and hopes it will lead to other work not covered by the plan for which he can get paid his regular rates.

The third mainly takes a plan for school and municipal employees.
User avatar
Eric
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:44 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by Eric »

bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:07 pm I know several lawyers, one in this plan, and a couple in various plans.

The one in this plan gets a few hundred dollars for a basic Will. It may be sufficient for people with modest assets and uncomplicated situations. It helps him fill up his time. He can try to upsell them a revocable trust for which they'll pay more, though he's in New Jersey so he has to be careful with that.

Another takes various plans, and hopes it will lead to other work not covered by the plan for which he can get paid his regular rates.

The third mainly takes a plan for school and municipal employees.
Interesting. "It helps him fill up his time" is consistent with my understanding that these plans are mainly for lawyers who are hungry for work, though a few hundred dollars per will is better than what my wife encountered (even accounting for inflation).

"Hopes it will lead to other work" is consistent with the idea that these are loss-leaders for the lawyers who participate.

Are any of them what you would consider to be estate planning specialists?
skepticalobserver
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:29 am

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by skepticalobserver »

Eric wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:12 pm a lawyer who viewed wills as a loss leader, not their core work. I occasionally hear more favorable reports about other plans, but I don't know any estate planning specialists myself who participate in them
Based on my experience, attorney participation in these plans is pitched as a loss leader, especially for new lawyers looking for work. This is not to say that the work product will be inadequate but there is probably going to be a limit to the scope of work a panel attorney will take on.
GuyInFL
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by GuyInFL »

From their website, I was able to look up attorneys in their plan, so I did and called one up. It was a small local firm and I spoke directly with the attorney. I told them what I wanted and confirmed that was covered by the plan. I then signed up during open enrollment, and set up an appointment the next year. The attorney asked if there was any urgency to the will and there wasn't, so it took a few weeks for the Will, Living Will, Medical Power of Attorney, and a Durable Power of Attorney. One set for me and one set for my wife. It was a simple "Sweetheart" will and it seemed like a "Turbo Tax" type deal.

I asked about a Trust, but they really only did a simple trust where you put your house in it to avoid probate.
I mentioned a Trust, such as the type bsteiner describes, and he said good luck finding someone who can do that!

I was satisfied to updated my 20-30 year old documents, but still need to do a real trust at some point.
bsteiner
Posts: 10189
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by bsteiner »

Eric wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:15 pm
bsteiner wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:07 pm I know several lawyers, one in this plan, and a couple in various plans.

The one in this plan gets a few hundred dollars for a basic Will. It may be sufficient for people with modest assets and uncomplicated situations. It helps him fill up his time. He can try to upsell them a revocable trust for which they'll pay more, though he's in New Jersey so he has to be careful with that.

Another takes various plans, and hopes it will lead to other work not covered by the plan for which he can get paid his regular rates.

The third mainly takes a plan for school and municipal employees.
Interesting. "It helps him fill up his time" is consistent with my understanding that these plans are mainly for lawyers who are hungry for work, though a few hundred dollars per will is better than what my wife encountered (even accounting for inflation).

"Hopes it will lead to other work" is consistent with the idea that these are loss-leaders for the lawyers who participate.

Are any of them what you would consider to be estate planning specialists?
No.

The first one is a young sole practitioner who does a mix of basic Wills and Medicaid planning.

The second is a friend. He has a general practice in one of the boroughs outside Manhattan. He takes the plans in the hope that it will lead to other work, and I think also to fill up his time.

The third one gets a good deal of work from the plans that cover school and municipal employees. He mainly does basic Wills for them.
GuyInFL wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:38 pm ...

I asked about a Trust, but they really only did a simple trust where you put your house in it to avoid probate.
I mentioned a Trust, such as the type bsteiner describes, and he said good luck finding someone who can do that!

I was satisfied to updated my 20-30 year old documents, but still need to do a real trust at some point.
If you're in Florida (as your user name suggests), probating a Will in Florida is generally not difficult; and in any event your home isn't a probate asset in Florida. Unless you expect to have a taxable estate or want to do Medicaid planning, you probably don't need to "do" a trust, though you may want to provide for your children in trust rather than outright.

An average trusts and estates lawyer can do Wills with credit shelter trusts, marital trusts and trusts for children.
OceanView2
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:53 pm

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by OceanView2 »

YMMV, but I used a metlife plan lawyer to do my revocable trust a few years ago and there was no cost.
RetireWhen
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:26 am

Re: Metlife Legal Services Plan

Post by RetireWhen »

We've used MetLife plan before. Most recently to redo the will and I would say if you have a legal matter you know you want to address in the covered year it is worth it. I've paid for the plan in years that we didn't have any legal issues so I basically paid for nothing.

We've had good experience with it.
Post Reply