Kitchen remodel Q
Kitchen remodel Q
So, assuming one wants a multi-part kitchen remodel (cabinets, countertops, flooring, maybe appliances and another thing or two),
...but is not certain on the details (exactly what would be replaced, in what manner, with what general grade and specific color of materials),
...then, how does one approach this from a project standpoint?
i.e. There's some design involved, but the bulk of the cost is the labor and materials. A kitchen/bath store will want to sell you the whole package. An interior designer (or architect?) maybe the same? Or we could self-design and ~GC it ourselves (sounds tough).
To get a reasonably competitive price, do you sit down with 2 or 3 designers at different places, get a full design and cost quote, or pay $1-3K (wild guess?) for a "design", then bid that out for the actual work, or what?
FWIW, considering similar process for master bath, although with different specifics of course.
...but is not certain on the details (exactly what would be replaced, in what manner, with what general grade and specific color of materials),
...then, how does one approach this from a project standpoint?
i.e. There's some design involved, but the bulk of the cost is the labor and materials. A kitchen/bath store will want to sell you the whole package. An interior designer (or architect?) maybe the same? Or we could self-design and ~GC it ourselves (sounds tough).
To get a reasonably competitive price, do you sit down with 2 or 3 designers at different places, get a full design and cost quote, or pay $1-3K (wild guess?) for a "design", then bid that out for the actual work, or what?
FWIW, considering similar process for master bath, although with different specifics of course.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Let's start with budget and size of kitchen. Then can offer advice. For budget, a range of what you are willing to spend, namely X to Y, where of course you would prefer X vs Y. Also, important to state what appliances you might wish to change out, and a specific budget for those as this will give an idea as to whether we are talking refresh type remodel to high end.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Start with your mental budget and desired changes, and then go shopping. Home Depot (and likely other retailers, and kitchen shops) will generally do a free plan and price out cabinets they sell. There can be a very wide range from "budget" to "luxe", so you need to sort that out. I had my last kitchen done through Home Depot with Decora cabinets, granite, all new appliances. (the cabinets are awesome, they don't carry them anymore, and I ordered all the appliances myself online). I had very clear layout with measurements (semi-custom, in 3" increments) that I started with - which i laid out in excel! LOL. I colored the cells brown for cabinets, grey for appliances etc, to do rough front views... well, it helped my decide a rough plan!
Recommend more deep drawers for lower cabinets instead of shelves/doors, you will double the accessible space. Countertops are priced by the square foot, so you can ballpark that.
Recommend more deep drawers for lower cabinets instead of shelves/doors, you will double the accessible space. Countertops are priced by the square foot, so you can ballpark that.
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.
- lthenderson
- Posts: 9183
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
- Location: Iowa
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I think the first order of business is to determine if anything is going to move in the remodel? Are walls going to shift and appliances moving to different locations or changing to a different footprint? Do subsurface utilities need to be upgraded, changed or move? The answer to these questions determine a huge amount of the price of the project and if it can be done in a "multi-part remodel" or needs to be done more or less all at once. It will also give you better answers as to the order of operations.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:10 am So, assuming one wants a multi-part kitchen remodel (cabinets, countertops, flooring, maybe appliances and another thing or two),
...but is not certain on the details (exactly what would be replaced, in what manner, with what general grade and specific color of materials),
...then, how does one approach this from a project standpoint?
As for the grade and materials, that depends on your budget and taste. My personal preference is to design a kitchen with classic materials and looks rather than to the latest fad. Nothing dates a kitchen faster than a fad that has gone out of style. I'm sure others out there remember the avocado green appliance fad of the 70's.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Probably not moving walls. Maybe modest alterations to cabinet configuration (a little longer/shorter cabinet runs in spots). If appliances change*, it'll be to go from current white to the "in-style" stainless (I'm meh on that, but...) Kitchen is maybe 200 square feet? Probably $30-50Kish.
* They all work decently now.
Not really going for magazine photo-shoot level decor - just update ~builder-grade mid 90's kitchen to modern.
* They all work decently now.
Not really going for magazine photo-shoot level decor - just update ~builder-grade mid 90's kitchen to modern.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
A 30-50K budget is unlikely to support moving any walls, especially if any walls would involve those with cabinets.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:49 pm Probably not moving walls. Maybe modest alterations to cabinet configuration (a little longer/shorter cabinet runs in spots). If appliances change*, it'll be to go from current white to the "in-style" stainless (I'm meh on that, but...) Kitchen is maybe 200 square feet? Probably $30-50Kish.
* They all work decently now.
Not really going for magazine photo-shoot level decor - just update ~builder-grade mid 90's kitchen to modern.
If you are talking longer/shorter cabinet runs, that likely means at a minimum new cabinet doors but probably new cabinets. And new cabinets means new countertops. And cabinet shorter would likely mean flooring matching required or new flooring.
Add in possible electric work, painting, etc, a 30K budget is going to be tough.
Having said all of this, a lot will depend on where you are located. If it's a LCOL area, that budget is going to go much farther than in a HCOL.
Here's a link to some possible online design places - some even free. https://www.decorilla.com/online-decora ... -services/
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I have a similar sized kitchen (and adjacent laundry room) that I redid right before COVID.
I hired the architect - a local firm - to listen to my desires and draw up some plans.
We went a couple of rounds tweaking the design - it included removing 1 wall and moving the location of the fridge to the other side of the kitchen (new ice maker line).
Also ran gas to convert the range from electric to gas.
I did demo myself.
I then hired recommended subcontractors that all knew each other because the work on multiple jobs together.
I started with the carpenter and then he recommended the electrician, who in turn recommended the plumber and drywall/painter. The carpenter also brought in the flooring/tile guy.
I chose union electricians and plumbers who work in both the commercial and residential space and hired them on a time and material basis.
The benefits were that they had multiple resources that could read plans and execute the work so I wasn't hamstrung waiting for "a guy" to finish up another job, etc. They showed up when they said they would for the rough-in work and communicated with each other on when the finish work would start. This allowed the project to get completed relatively quick. The longest wait time was waiting for the granite company to field measure and then install the tops.
I probably didn't get the lowest price but got quality work on a timely basis.
Start to finish was 4 weeks - I think at one time there were 4 electricians doing the rough in work. I'm not a fan of 1 guy doing it all.
I bought fixtures and appliances that the trades installed as part of the finish work.
Total cost was $41.5k which includes everything down to the cabinet pulls - all materials are what I would call "mid level".
I hired the architect - a local firm - to listen to my desires and draw up some plans.
We went a couple of rounds tweaking the design - it included removing 1 wall and moving the location of the fridge to the other side of the kitchen (new ice maker line).
Also ran gas to convert the range from electric to gas.
I did demo myself.
I then hired recommended subcontractors that all knew each other because the work on multiple jobs together.
I started with the carpenter and then he recommended the electrician, who in turn recommended the plumber and drywall/painter. The carpenter also brought in the flooring/tile guy.
I chose union electricians and plumbers who work in both the commercial and residential space and hired them on a time and material basis.
The benefits were that they had multiple resources that could read plans and execute the work so I wasn't hamstrung waiting for "a guy" to finish up another job, etc. They showed up when they said they would for the rough-in work and communicated with each other on when the finish work would start. This allowed the project to get completed relatively quick. The longest wait time was waiting for the granite company to field measure and then install the tops.
I probably didn't get the lowest price but got quality work on a timely basis.
Start to finish was 4 weeks - I think at one time there were 4 electricians doing the rough in work. I'm not a fan of 1 guy doing it all.
I bought fixtures and appliances that the trades installed as part of the finish work.
Total cost was $41.5k which includes everything down to the cabinet pulls - all materials are what I would call "mid level".
Last edited by count damoney on Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Most respondents haven't really addressed my Q.
Basically:
How does one get good bang-for-the-buck (from whatever budget I choose), when the design task and the implementation task are inter-mixed?
If I just start talking with a fancy kitchen design specialty shop, I worry that I'll have to, at minimum, invest a lot of time to get to the stage where they're ready to give me a number, then I don't know if the number they'll give me is reasonable, compared to other possible avenues.
It's sort of a variation on the "get three quotes" advice. How to get 3 quotes when the scope/detail is not clear...
Basically:
How does one get good bang-for-the-buck (from whatever budget I choose), when the design task and the implementation task are inter-mixed?
If I just start talking with a fancy kitchen design specialty shop, I worry that I'll have to, at minimum, invest a lot of time to get to the stage where they're ready to give me a number, then I don't know if the number they'll give me is reasonable, compared to other possible avenues.
It's sort of a variation on the "get three quotes" advice. How to get 3 quotes when the scope/detail is not clear...
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Thanks for the detail. How did it go with "time and material"? Seems a lot of contractors (that I've dealt with in the past) want to bid, and not just ~go by the hour.count damoney wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:12 pm I chose union electricians and plumbers who work in both the commercial and residential space and hired them on a time and material basis.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I'm not married to a particular budget. Could comfortably spend 10x the number I threw out, but it would be silly and I'd feel profligate. (House is worth ~$500K - big house but in low COL area). We'll likely be here for many years to come, so resale is not a primary driving factor, but still...mjg wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:08 pmA 30-50K budget is unlikely to support moving any walls, especially if any walls would involve those with cabinets.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:49 pm Probably not moving walls. Maybe modest alterations to cabinet configuration (a little longer/shorter cabinet runs in spots). If appliances change*, it'll be to go from current white to the "in-style" stainless (I'm meh on that, but...) Kitchen is maybe 200 square feet? Probably $30-50Kish.
* They all work decently now.
Not really going for magazine photo-shoot level decor - just update ~builder-grade mid 90's kitchen to modern.
If you are talking longer/shorter cabinet runs, that likely means at a minimum new cabinet doors but probably new cabinets. And new cabinets means new countertops. And cabinet shorter would likely mean flooring matching required or new flooring.
Add in possible electric work, painting, etc, a 30K budget is going to be tough.
Having said all of this, a lot will depend on where you are located. If it's a LCOL area, that budget is going to go much farther than in a HCOL.
Here's a link to some possible online design places - some even free. https://www.decorilla.com/online-decora ... -services/
Yeah, I realize any changes to cabinets would likely entail new countertops and flooring. Frankly it's all old and cheap anyways. Cabinets are particle board covered with that white plastic-y stuff. Countertops are formica (ish). Flooring is cheap laminate or something like it. I guess my preference would be a nice stone countertop, painted (maybe?) wood cabinets, hardwood floors, though I'm open on all issues.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
There are a lot of interior designers that specialize in kitchen/bath design. I stress "interior designer," not "interior decorator." Designers have college degrees and professional certification. Use someone with experience and a portfolio that aligns with your taste. They will work with you to understand your needs, desires, aesthetic, space limitations, etc. You will work through multiple concepts until you land on the right design. The right designer will have special knowledge of cabinetry and equipment options, and you will get a space that works well ergonomically. They will also have relationships with local vendors and trades people. Expect to pay 5-10% of the project budget in design fees, but well worth it in my opinion.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:10 am So, assuming one wants a multi-part kitchen remodel (cabinets, countertops, flooring, maybe appliances and another thing or two),
...but is not certain on the details (exactly what would be replaced, in what manner, with what general grade and specific color of materials),
...then, how does one approach this from a project standpoint?
i.e. There's some design involved, but the bulk of the cost is the labor and materials. A kitchen/bath store will want to sell you the whole package. An interior designer (or architect?) maybe the same? Or we could self-design and ~GC it ourselves (sounds tough).
To get a reasonably competitive price, do you sit down with 2 or 3 designers at different places, get a full design and cost quote, or pay $1-3K (wild guess?) for a "design", then bid that out for the actual work, or what?
FWIW, considering similar process for master bath, although with different specifics of course.
My primary advice is don't try to design and GC the project yourself, unless you have training and experience to do so. It will be a huge time suck and you likely won't be happy with the result. Good luck!
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Go talk to the friendly folks in the local Home Depot and Lowes to start. An experienced kitchen designer who knows how to order cabinets is important. Experience matters because they can incorporate what they've learned from other jobs into your design.
You may also have a local cabinet shop that does full kitchen remodels. In your price range I would not even both to approach a design build remodeler.
HD/Lowes are tough on their contractors, and gives you an advocate if something goes seriously wrong (like going out of business). I think that has value in this price range. Being your own GC for something like this can be done if you have time and motivation to do it, but you may not save a lot of money over big box stores unless you are doing work yourself or have a source of low cost or free qualified labor.
Find out whether your $30-50K budget is realistic. I would not get the cheapest cabinets offered. Blum hardware, hardwood drawers, mostly drawer bases not cupboards.
You may also have a local cabinet shop that does full kitchen remodels. In your price range I would not even both to approach a design build remodeler.
HD/Lowes are tough on their contractors, and gives you an advocate if something goes seriously wrong (like going out of business). I think that has value in this price range. Being your own GC for something like this can be done if you have time and motivation to do it, but you may not save a lot of money over big box stores unless you are doing work yourself or have a source of low cost or free qualified labor.
Find out whether your $30-50K budget is realistic. I would not get the cheapest cabinets offered. Blum hardware, hardwood drawers, mostly drawer bases not cupboards.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Sounds like you’ve got a big project on your hands! When I remodeled my kitchen, I started by gathering inspiration from Pinterest and home design magazines, which helped me nail down my style. I’d recommend sitting down with a couple of designers to get their take on what you want—sometimes just talking things through can spark new ideas. I ended up skipping the full design fee at first and instead asked for rough quotes based on what I had in mind. If you’re up for it, managing the project yourself can save some cash, but it’s definitely a bit of a juggling act. Just make sure to get several quotes from contractors to find the best fit.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
So do these designers operate ~independently, with an office somewhere? You pay them a design fee, then they recommend a GC to implement? Or do you mean the Kitchen/Bath stores that want to sell you the whole kitchen design & install process, soup-to-nuts, for $50K+?vanuber wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:20 pm There are a lot of interior designers that specialize in kitchen/bath design. I stress "interior designer," not "interior decorator." Designers have college degrees and professional certification. Use someone with experience and a portfolio that aligns with your taste. They will work with you to understand your needs, desires, aesthetic, space limitations, etc. You will work through multiple concepts until you land on the right design. The right designer will have special knowledge of cabinetry and equipment options, and you will get a space that works well ergonomically. They will also have relationships with local vendors and trades people. Expect to pay 5-10% of the project budget in design fees, but well worth it in my opinion.
My primary advice is don't try to design and GC the project yourself, unless you have training and experience to do so. It will be a huge time suck and you likely won't be happy with the result. Good luck!
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Decide what you want to replace, then start from there.
The fact that most of cost is parts and labor, means the only variable is labor. You can generate excess labor if you stage the work and cause overlapping/redundant work, for example removing the cabinets once for flooring, and again for wall work.
If you know what you want to change, better to do it all at once to do it in the best sequence and get it all out of the way. Countertops and appliances are the easiest since its basically a swap if youre maintaining dimensions.
The fact that most of cost is parts and labor, means the only variable is labor. You can generate excess labor if you stage the work and cause overlapping/redundant work, for example removing the cabinets once for flooring, and again for wall work.
If you know what you want to change, better to do it all at once to do it in the best sequence and get it all out of the way. Countertops and appliances are the easiest since its basically a swap if youre maintaining dimensions.
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
IMO the success of coming up with a design that best suits your taste/way you use your kitchen is directly correlated with you knowing what you want. The design can be used to obtain project cost estimates.
So consider nailing down your design wishes - are you going to move walls/doorways, do you want an island or peninsula, do you want new windows/doors, do you want to move appliance/sink locations, do you certain appliances/appliance size you want, custom or stock cabinets, do you want to change your lighting, etc.
Then work with an independent certified kitchen designer to come up with a plan. The designer should be able to ball park the cost. If it’s outside your budget, then work on ways with the designer to bring down the cost. Alternatively you can work with the kitchen salespeople at places like Home Depot.
Otherwise, you can give the designer a budget and leave it to the designer to come up with a kitchen design (which may or may not suit you best). Depends how particular you are.
My spouse and I enjoy cooking/our kitchen. We did drawings on graph paper of our preferred layout. Then we gathered pictures and samples of finishes, appliances, etc. we liked. We figured out what needed to be stored where which affected the choice of cabinets with drawers or doors. Etc.
Expect a kitchen remodel to cost a lot. Your choices of appliances, cabinetry and other finishes as well as the structural work will be major drivers to the cost.
Do find out upfront whether the designer/salesperson will give you a floor plan and elevations to help you decide whether to move ahead. Some will not as, for example, Home Depot doesn’t want you to shop their design at Lowe’s.
So consider nailing down your design wishes - are you going to move walls/doorways, do you want an island or peninsula, do you want new windows/doors, do you want to move appliance/sink locations, do you certain appliances/appliance size you want, custom or stock cabinets, do you want to change your lighting, etc.
Then work with an independent certified kitchen designer to come up with a plan. The designer should be able to ball park the cost. If it’s outside your budget, then work on ways with the designer to bring down the cost. Alternatively you can work with the kitchen salespeople at places like Home Depot.
Otherwise, you can give the designer a budget and leave it to the designer to come up with a kitchen design (which may or may not suit you best). Depends how particular you are.
My spouse and I enjoy cooking/our kitchen. We did drawings on graph paper of our preferred layout. Then we gathered pictures and samples of finishes, appliances, etc. we liked. We figured out what needed to be stored where which affected the choice of cabinets with drawers or doors. Etc.
Expect a kitchen remodel to cost a lot. Your choices of appliances, cabinetry and other finishes as well as the structural work will be major drivers to the cost.
Do find out upfront whether the designer/salesperson will give you a floor plan and elevations to help you decide whether to move ahead. Some will not as, for example, Home Depot doesn’t want you to shop their design at Lowe’s.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I didn’t get that kind of info when I did my Reno. I tried, but I either didn’t like a vendor or they plain didn’t comeback with a quote after coming out to my home. I’m glad I had them come though. I did get a few ideas from them.
I decided on my budget & hired a “home improvement” guy my neighbor recommended. The guy is excellent & only hired one subcontractor! He worked mostly alone except for maybe 5 days that he brought in helpers. It has taken 6 weeks so far with two of those weeks waiting on doors. My kitchen is 150 sq. Ft. I did not replace my appliances, counters, or lower cabinets. I did have the lower cabinets resurfaced & drawers added to all of them. I had my refrigerator recessed and a whole new 94” cabinet with rolling drawers built. I had a duct installed to vent air. I had all new 42” upper cabinets installed & 2 36” upper cabinets with shelves installed in the “office” are adjacent to the kitchen.
My Reno came in within your budget for a MCOL location.
I also kept my ear to the ground to see what others paid for their Reno.
I decided on my budget & hired a “home improvement” guy my neighbor recommended. The guy is excellent & only hired one subcontractor! He worked mostly alone except for maybe 5 days that he brought in helpers. It has taken 6 weeks so far with two of those weeks waiting on doors. My kitchen is 150 sq. Ft. I did not replace my appliances, counters, or lower cabinets. I did have the lower cabinets resurfaced & drawers added to all of them. I had my refrigerator recessed and a whole new 94” cabinet with rolling drawers built. I had a duct installed to vent air. I had all new 42” upper cabinets installed & 2 36” upper cabinets with shelves installed in the “office” are adjacent to the kitchen.
My Reno came in within your budget for a MCOL location.
I also kept my ear to the ground to see what others paid for their Reno.
Last edited by PoppyA on Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Short answer in my area: independent kitchen designers do exist but they do $200K+ jobs and charge accordingly, not $30-50K remodels. They will have a list of GC's they've referred work to in the past.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:28 pm So do these designers operate ~independently, with an office somewhere? You pay them a design fee, then they recommend a GC to implement? Or do you mean the Kitchen/Bath stores that want to sell you the whole kitchen design & install process, soup-to-nuts, for $50K+?
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Went great. There will be a lot of changes as the kitchen comes together. We added another outlet to the island, a water line for a coffee maker, had to move a can light 6 inches after it was installed, etc. With a "bid" these would have all been negotiate extras . .with T&M they just billed for their time. We also eliminated some things (a pot filler water line and some task lighting). Those would have had to be negotiated out of the "bid". I just kept track of who was there and for how long and it was easy to cross check once the invoice arrived.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:14 pmThanks for the detail. How did it go with "time and material"? Seems a lot of contractors (that I've dealt with in the past) want to bid, and not just ~go by the hour.count damoney wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:12 pm I chose union electricians and plumbers who work in both the commercial and residential space and hired them on a time and material basis.
The union contractors I dealt with were able to quickly produce a budget based on the design so I had a good idea of the ballpark of costs going in.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
We recently did a kitchen remodel through Home Depot. They did the mid level cabinets, sink-fixtures and quartz countertops, I did the flooring and backsplash. Cost for HD was $18k. We wanted the corner cabinets to provide more usable space, as the existing cabinets wasted valuable storage area, so that was a few dollars more. They measured and designed and no structural work was done. We found their subs to be very good and we were thrilled with the results.
- quantAndHold
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
If you’re not totally reconfiguring everything, you can work directly with a GC. We did a $40k gut remodel on our main bath. Looked at pictures on houzz to figure out what we wanted, then got 5 bids from contractors. Threw away the 2 that were so low that they clearly misunderstood the scope of the project, and hired the cheapest of the other 3. The one we hired was able to ask clarifying questions and direct us to a guy he worked with for custom cabinets, etc. It was worth going with a GC because he had a stable of tradespeople, and could get them scheduled in a timely manner, which was important, since we were showering in the motorhome.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I would work with a GC or architect, the latter if the scope of the job involves major reconfiguration of a floor plan or alterations to the exterior of your house. A good GC will have contacts for cabinets, counters, etc. Kitchen stores are beholden to a handful of cabinet lines that they try to sell and their "designers" don't necessarily have any real qualifications. If you're concerned about your ability to put together a harmonious design, I would hire an independent interior designer. They may also be the best person to advise you on how to update your kitchen without replacing it completely, if that's the way you want to go.
Having just renovated a kitchen, I will say that it often does not make a ton of sense to replace and update piecemeal unless you are happy with with existing layout and fixtures. E.g., doing anything other than a like-for-like appliance swap will likely require replacing/reconfiguring cabinets (so you either have to refinish or replace all cabinets, or have new cabinets that don't blend with the old); enlarging or moving your sink will likely require new countertops; moving anything may require replacement/refinishing/patching of the floor, etc.
$50k is not a reasonable budget for a quality renovation of a decent sized kitchen. Good, not amazing, quality cabinets alone would be around $50k. You can get thermofoil from HD for a lot less, but you get what you pay for.
Having just renovated a kitchen, I will say that it often does not make a ton of sense to replace and update piecemeal unless you are happy with with existing layout and fixtures. E.g., doing anything other than a like-for-like appliance swap will likely require replacing/reconfiguring cabinets (so you either have to refinish or replace all cabinets, or have new cabinets that don't blend with the old); enlarging or moving your sink will likely require new countertops; moving anything may require replacement/refinishing/patching of the floor, etc.
$50k is not a reasonable budget for a quality renovation of a decent sized kitchen. Good, not amazing, quality cabinets alone would be around $50k. You can get thermofoil from HD for a lot less, but you get what you pay for.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
I mean independent interior designers that specialize in kitchen and bath design. They would recommend GC's and also have connections with product vendors (flooring, countertops, millwork, etc.). Kitchen and bath stores could be okay too. It would probably save you money. It depends on how much you value custom design and quality.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:28 pmSo do these designers operate ~independently, with an office somewhere? You pay them a design fee, then they recommend a GC to implement? Or do you mean the Kitchen/Bath stores that want to sell you the whole kitchen design & install process, soup-to-nuts, for $50K+?vanuber wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:20 pm There are a lot of interior designers that specialize in kitchen/bath design. I stress "interior designer," not "interior decorator." Designers have college degrees and professional certification. Use someone with experience and a portfolio that aligns with your taste. They will work with you to understand your needs, desires, aesthetic, space limitations, etc. You will work through multiple concepts until you land on the right design. The right designer will have special knowledge of cabinetry and equipment options, and you will get a space that works well ergonomically. They will also have relationships with local vendors and trades people. Expect to pay 5-10% of the project budget in design fees, but well worth it in my opinion.
My primary advice is don't try to design and GC the project yourself, unless you have training and experience to do so. It will be a huge time suck and you likely won't be happy with the result. Good luck!
- lthenderson
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
When we redid our kitchen, we worked with a kitchen designer at a place that dealt exclusively with selling kitchen cabinets. We signed a deal that if we bought their cabinets, the design work was essentially free and they guaranteed everything at fas as fit went. If we chose to go somewhere else to purchase the cabinets, we would be charged a modest fee for their work. After the design was completed to our satisfaction, which involved several sessions, we came to an agreement on price and inked the deal. It was the only quote we got. But it was inline with what I was expecting. Two of the cabinets they ordered were not ordered correctly and had to be reordered. By having the guarantee of the cabinet dealer, this was done free of charge and since they were custom, we got to keep them and I later used them in our pantry.psteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:12 pm
How does one get good bang-for-the-buck (from whatever budget I choose), when the design task and the implementation task are inter-mixed?
If I just start talking with a fancy kitchen design specialty shop, I worry that I'll have to, at minimum, invest a lot of time to get to the stage where they're ready to give me a number, then I don't know if the number they'll give me is reasonable, compared to other possible avenues.
It's sort of a variation on the "get three quotes" advice. How to get 3 quotes when the scope/detail is not clear...
One thing I learned through this process is any quotes should be taken with a large grain of salt. Inset doors and certain trim options for the interior and exterior can easily double or triple the price of cabinets versus overlaid doors in a simple shaker style with fixed immovable shelving. There is even huge price differences in the materials used in making them. It is impossible to compare one persons quote from another without knowing specific design details that I never see shared on forums like here.
Re: Kitchen remodel Q
What is the general price range of the house?
If I remember right you are in the midwest and might be in modestly priced house and the kitchen you you would put into that would be a lot different than for a two million dollar house in California.
We did not move any walls other than to extend one wall by about a foot. There were minimal electrical and plumbing changes and the cabinet layout changed some.
The contractor had a "floor guy" and a "counter guy" that he liked and had worked with many times before so we used them and they did good work at a reasonable price.
Mainly the contractor tore out the old cabinets and flooring, did some drywall work, hung the new cabinets, and installed the backsplash. That was a lot of work but it was not rocket science.
In our situation where it is a moderately prices house with no major changes I did not see any need to higher designer, architect, etc when the project was so straight forward that I even briefly considered doing the work myself but I did not have the time to do it.
We were really happy with the results and it is admittedly a mid-range kitchen but that is appropriate for our mid-range house. We intentionally did not buy the least expensive materials and I would avoid those.
One thing you could do would be to set up an appointment with the Home Depot or Lowes kitchen design people and go through the kitchen design process as a learning experience and dry run. Once you have done that you will have a lot better understanding of what you are getting into and a better idea of the cost. I would not use their contractors since the better contractors will not be working through a big box store.
He has a crew who just does bathrooms and kitchens and he said that they do about 100 bathrooms a year so they know what they are doing and didn't really need any design help.
If you have access to some neighborhood group like that you can look for contractor recommendations there.
If I remember right you are in the midwest and might be in modestly priced house and the kitchen you you would put into that would be a lot different than for a two million dollar house in California.
It has been almost 20 years but for a midrange house($400k ish) I found an experienced contractor who happened to live in my subdivision and hired him. We ordered the cabinets from Home Depot. I don't recall if there was a fee but Home Depot had the computer software to do the cabinet layout.
We did not move any walls other than to extend one wall by about a foot. There were minimal electrical and plumbing changes and the cabinet layout changed some.
The contractor had a "floor guy" and a "counter guy" that he liked and had worked with many times before so we used them and they did good work at a reasonable price.
Mainly the contractor tore out the old cabinets and flooring, did some drywall work, hung the new cabinets, and installed the backsplash. That was a lot of work but it was not rocket science.
In our situation where it is a moderately prices house with no major changes I did not see any need to higher designer, architect, etc when the project was so straight forward that I even briefly considered doing the work myself but I did not have the time to do it.
We were really happy with the results and it is admittedly a mid-range kitchen but that is appropriate for our mid-range house. We intentionally did not buy the least expensive materials and I would avoid those.
One thing you could do would be to set up an appointment with the Home Depot or Lowes kitchen design people and go through the kitchen design process as a learning experience and dry run. Once you have done that you will have a lot better understanding of what you are getting into and a better idea of the cost. I would not use their contractors since the better contractors will not be working through a big box store.
We just had our two bathrooms redone "down to the studs" and it ran about $37K but the first bid we got was crazy high. We live in a huge subdivision which has a Facebook group so we asked for recommendations there. The contractor we found through that has done at least a dozen kitchens and bathrooms in the subdivision and had great recommendations. He also knew that if he did not do a good job that would hurt his reputation in the neighborhood.
He has a crew who just does bathrooms and kitchens and he said that they do about 100 bathrooms a year so they know what they are doing and didn't really need any design help.
If you have access to some neighborhood group like that you can look for contractor recommendations there.
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
Start with appliances before ordering cabinets. Most major appliances have standard widths but the heights can vary considerably. We ran into that problem during our kitchen remodel.
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Re: Kitchen remodel Q
We did a quasi DITY kitchen redo last year at a seasonal home in Floridapsteinx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:10 am So, assuming one wants a multi-part kitchen remodel (cabinets, countertops, flooring, maybe appliances and another thing or two),
...but is not certain on the details (exactly what would be replaced, in what manner, with what general grade and specific color of materials),
...then, how does one approach this from a project standpoint?
i.e. There's some design involved, but the bulk of the cost is the labor and materials. A kitchen/bath store will want to sell you the whole package. An interior designer (or architect?) maybe the same? Or we could self-design and ~GC it ourselves (sounds tough).
To get a reasonably competitive price, do you sit down with 2 or 3 designers at different places, get a full design and cost quote, or pay $1-3K (wild guess?) for a "design", then bid that out for the actual work, or what?
FWIW, considering similar process for master bath, although with different specifics of course.
General steps we did on a 500K house and galley kitchen with 30sq ft counter space
- found cabinets (Fabuwood), countertops (cambria), and tile we wanted for price and quality
— cabinets were ball park 14K installed, countertops 4K, tile was about 14K for 1000 sq foot (5K for tile, 7K for install with new baseboards)
— got two kitchen designs from top choices of cabinet vendors
— shopped price and availability
- found tile flooring and installer we liked
— shopped price and availability
- decided to have cabinet store installers do installation although it was more money then we wanted to spend but quality of work was excellent
- we removed old kitchen cabinets, tray ceiling, and tile floor ourselves and set up a Mini kitchen in family room next to utility sink in Landry room
- we hired electrician to add line from CB box and move a couple outlets ($750) got quotes up to $3500; did some basic wiring ourselves m
- hired hvac guy to move one vent $200
- hired drywall guy to redo kitchen ceiling 3K
- installed floor first then cabinets over tile
- kept same fridge, stove, lighting, got new dishwasher and disposal
- did plumbing of new sink and disposal, ice maker line ourselves
Overall we spent about 35K
What I would have done different. I would have removed all the flooring from the area we wanted tile before getting estimates. Paid a little extra for leveling of floor AFTER floor contractor started job - I didn’t have much bargaining power and could not compare bids on that part which might if cost me $500-750.
Remodel was done over two 4 month periods as we live there seasonally. Worked out good I think. We might of have saved 5-10K running project and doing some if it ourselves. We were able to get the exact tile, cabinets, counter tops we wanted by shopping them individually but it took some time. We got two bids from general contractors and they wanted us to buy their cheaper cabinets/ countertops or had large TBDs in their bids for hvac, electrical, etc.