Bi- directional charging using EV

[hoops777]

Can someone explain how this works?
If we have an EV with this capability how does it get power to your home if there is a power outage?
Can it power multiple things at once or are we talking you can plug your refrigerator into it or something like that?
Maybe it plugs into a generator that powers everything for awhile?
If that is the case how much does a generator cost that would function that way?
Thanks.

[02nz]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

[hoops777]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Thanks. I was a bit skeptical.

[beardsicles]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

[hoops777]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

Yea definitely will not be giving a penny to Tesla. Everything mentioned is way too pricey so I will wait and see how it plays out.
Thanks.

[TomatoTomahto]

. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k.

Not a big fan of Tesla Powerwall (I use Soonen and Enphase), but fair is fair. I think your stats indicate a Powerwall 3, list price $6k, not “almost $45k.” With various incentives, it could cost a lot less to purchase and provide monthly/annual payments.

[02nz]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

It absolutely is quite a bit of additional equipment, at quite a bit of additional cost. From Insideevs:

Prices for the new V2H products [from GM] haven’t been announced yet, but we expect a cost of anywhere between $7,000 and $10,000 for the basic vehicle-to-home bundle that allows a house to be powered by an EV battery, including the necessary equipment and installation.

In the case of the Ford F-150 Lightning, installing the so-called Intelligent Backup Power system costs anywhere from $7,500 to $15,000.

[alex_686]

Yea definitely will not be giving a penny to Tesla. Everything mentioned is way too pricey so I will wait and see how it plays out.
Thanks.

To become carbon neutral, and if our primary energy source is going to be wind and solar, we are going to need more batteries. Electric cars have big batteries. In theory bi-directional charging could be a major step forward in solving this problem. It may be a few more years before this becomes a practicable solution.

[TomatoTomahto]

Yea definitely will not be giving a penny to Tesla. Everything mentioned is way too pricey so I will wait and see how it plays out.
Thanks.

To become carbon neutral, and if our primary energy source is going to be wind and solar, we are going to need more batteries. Electric cars have big batteries. In theory bi-directional charging could be a major step forward in solving this problem. It may be a few more years before this becomes a practicable solution.

I foresee EVs being useful to provide backup power for many homes that are relatively simple. I spoke with my solar installer the other day, and we could not figure out a way to “insert” an EV into our complicated electrical setup. Providing 52 kWh of backup was considerable more expensive than it would be to add a 100+ kmh EV, but for the foreseeable future, dedicated batteries it will have to be.

[beardsicles]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

It absolutely is quite a bit of additional equipment, at quite a bit of additional cost. From Insideevs:

Prices for the new V2H products [from GM] haven’t been announced yet, but we expect a cost of anywhere between $7,000 and $10,000 for the basic vehicle-to-home bundle that allows a house to be powered by an EV battery, including the necessary equipment and installation.

In the case of the Ford F-150 Lightning, installing the so-called Intelligent Backup Power system costs anywhere from $7,500 to $15,000.

It's literally two pieces of equipment. A bi-directional charger and an automatic shutoff. You'd need a charger anyway, so the only additional piece of equipment is an automatic shutoff.

[02nz]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

It absolutely is quite a bit of additional equipment, at quite a bit of additional cost. From Insideevs:

Prices for the new V2H products [from GM] haven’t been announced yet, but we expect a cost of anywhere between $7,000 and $10,000 for the basic vehicle-to-home bundle that allows a house to be powered by an EV battery, including the necessary equipment and installation.

In the case of the Ford F-150 Lightning, installing the so-called Intelligent Backup Power system costs anywhere from $7,500 to $15,000.

It's literally two pieces of equipment. A bi-directional charger and an automatic shutoff. You'd need a charger anyway, so the only additional piece of equipment is an automatic shutoff.

Typical cost of L2 charging is around $1000 incl. installation. Per the source above, adding the equipment to power the whole house costs 7X-15X that. I suspect that is "quite a bit" to most people.

The Powerwall 3 costs around $6K before installation (source). Since the cost is comparable to or less than the V2H solution, I'd much rather have a Powerwall, since it would provide around-the-clock power backup even when the EV is not home, and it would not cause additional wear on my EV's battery.

[lazydavid]

Typical cost of L2 charging is around $1000 incl. installation. Per the source above, adding the equipment to power the whole house costs 7X-15X that. I suspect that is "quite a bit" to most people.

The Powerwall 3 costs around $6K before installation (source). Since the cost is comparable to or less than the V2H solution, I'd much rather have a Powerwall, since it would provide around-the-clock power backup even when the EV is not home, and it would not cause additional wear on my EV's battery.

It's also dependent on how much capacity you need. A single Powerwall 3 (you can stack up to 10) is 13.5kWh, whereas most EVs will be 70+. For my house and needs, 3 units (~40kWh total) would be about right, and would have cost $23k installed at the same time as my upcoming solar system. I didn't ask, but I'm guessing more like $25-26k if done on its own.

Another factor is that in colder climates like mine, they need to be installed inside the home, with a non-trivial amount of clearance. So that would have essentially taken up one entire wall of my finished basement.

[AS7911]

Gas forced air furnace, in an area with frequent winter power outages. furnace still needs electricity to run the blower.. I think it pulls about 500watts. There is a single 120v and switch that controls the furnace. If I turned off the furnace breaker, and that switch / outlet... and used a double male cord (yes, I know, referred to a suicide cord), couldnt I use the Ioniq 120v outlet to power the furnace for quite a long time? What are the risks, assume both breaker, and outlet in off position?

[cmr79]

Gas forced air furnace, in an area with frequent winter power outages. furnace still needs electricity to run the blower.. I think it pulls about 500watts. There is a single 120v and switch that controls the furnace. If I turned off the furnace breaker, and that switch / outlet... and used a double male cord (yes, I know, referred to a suicide cord), couldnt I use the Ioniq 120v outlet to power the furnace for quite a long time? What are the risks, assume both breaker, and outlet in off position?

This YouTube video may be of interest to you, as the guy runs essentially everything he needs in his daily life off of an Ioniq 5 for 24 hours as a test:
https://youtu.be/yO5fJ8z66Z8?si=OH8naPO0MG_-ZvEQ

[neilpilot]

Gas forced air furnace, in an area with frequent winter power outages. furnace still needs electricity to run the blower.. I think it pulls about 500watts. There is a single 120v and switch that controls the furnace. If I turned off the furnace breaker, and that switch / outlet... and used a double male cord (yes, I know, referred to a suicide cord), couldnt I use the Ioniq 120v outlet to power the furnace for quite a long time? What are the risks, assume both breaker, and outlet in off position?

I spent under $250 for an inverter and fuse that will allow me to run a gas furnace, a few lights and misc items (TV, internet) using my EV. If fully charged I calculate I can run the furnace for 5-8 days (probably longer). Since my furnace is plugged in, not hard wired, it's simple to set up.

[segfault]

I can run essentials (fridge, internet connection, and gas furnace or one A/C window unit I keep for that purpose) off a single 15A circuit on a 2200W inverter generator. I’d be fine with whatever an EV can supply.

[AS7911]

I can run essentials (fridge, internet connection, and gas furnace or one A/C window unit I keep for that purpose) off a single 15A circuit on a 2200W inverter generator. I’d be fine with whatever an EV can supply.

So the question is, HOW is your gas furnace connected to the EV? was it installed as "plug-in" rather than hard wired? best I can tell, that is not per code; on the other hand, common in some regions...

[globalpatriot]

There is a sub panel you can get if you have a car like a Kia EV6 that directs the car power output to selected home circuits -- https://www.kiaevforums.com/threads/i-i ... post-94696

Really a pretty cool thing!

[segfault]

I can run essentials (fridge, internet connection, and gas furnace or one A/C window unit I keep for that purpose) off a single 15A circuit on a 2200W inverter generator. I’d be fine with whatever an EV can supply.

So the question is, HOW is your gas furnace connected to the EV? was it installed as "plug-in" rather than hard wired? best I can tell, that is not per code; on the other hand, common in some regions...

Nothing is connected to my EV (it doesn't support bi-directional charging), I have a gas powered inverter generator. I have a generator transfer switch on the furnace and it has a male receptacle that can accept an extension cord. It looks like this (the receptacle isn't installed in the pic):
https://www.electricgeneratordepot.com/ ... witch-gray

[quantAndHold]

I can run essentials (fridge, internet connection, and gas furnace or one A/C window unit I keep for that purpose) off a single 15A circuit on a 2200W inverter generator. I’d be fine with whatever an EV can supply.

So the question is, HOW is your gas furnace connected to the EV? was it installed as "plug-in" rather than hard wired? best I can tell, that is not per code; on the other hand, common in some regions...

Nothing is connected to my EV (it doesn't support bi-directional charging), I have a gas powered inverter generator. I have a generator transfer switch on the furnace and it has a male receptacle that can accept an extension cord. It looks like this (the receptacle isn't installed in the pic):
https://www.electricgeneratordepot.com/ ... witch-gray

There are several videos on YouTube where people hook inverters up to their car, then plug the inverter into the generator receptacle. I don't know about other models, but for my Bolt, I hook a normal 12V inverter up to the 12V battery, which will draw power from the big battery if the car is left running.

[phositadc]

I suggest you read this article: https://insideevs.com/features/713446/p ... c-vehicle/

The short answer: you cannot power your whole house off of an EV, without quite a bit of additional equipment.

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

It absolutely is quite a bit of additional equipment, at quite a bit of additional cost. From Insideevs:

Prices for the new V2H products [from GM] haven’t been announced yet, but we expect a cost of anywhere between $7,000 and $10,000 for the basic vehicle-to-home bundle that allows a house to be powered by an EV battery, including the necessary equipment and installation.

In the case of the Ford F-150 Lightning, installing the so-called Intelligent Backup Power system costs anywhere from $7,500 to $15,000.

It's literally two pieces of equipment. A bi-directional charger and an automatic shutoff. You'd need a charger anyway, so the only additional piece of equipment is an automatic shutoff.

Typical cost of L2 charging is around $1000 incl. installation. Per the source above, adding the equipment to power the whole house costs 7X-15X that. I suspect that is "quite a bit" to most people.

The Powerwall 3 costs around $6K before installation (source). Since the cost is comparable to or less than the V2H solution, I'd much rather have a Powerwall, since it would provide around-the-clock power backup even when the EV is not home, and it would not cause additional wear on my EV's battery.

The person you are responding to did not say it wasn't expensive. He said it was not a lot of equipment. If he's correct that it's only two items, then I would agree with him -- it's not a lot of equipment, it's just expensive equipment.

However, as he points out, a typical EV has a battery that is the size of like 4x Tesla Powerwalls. If it costs $15k to hook your 60 kWh car battery up to your house, that's still going to be a much better option than spending $30-40k on 4x Tesla Powerwalls, assuming you already own the EV. Not to mention, 4x Tesla Powerwalls would take up a bunch of space. If you already park your car in your garage, the equipment to power your house with it would be much smaller than 4x Powerwalls.

[02nz]

Quite a bit of additional equipment is a bit of an overstatement. You need a bi-directional charger and an automatic disconnect. There aren't many bi-directional charging stations out there, but when there are more, it will almost assuredly be cheaper to use your EV as a backup home battery in lieu of buying something like a Tesla Powerwall. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5 kWh and $9.3k. Most EVs have a 65 kwh battery, minimum. An EV is $35-50k, whereas a Tesla Powerwall would run you almost $45k. If you're putting in a Powerwall, you may as well just buy another EV--the car is effectively free.

It absolutely is quite a bit of additional equipment, at quite a bit of additional cost. From Insideevs:

Prices for the new V2H products [from GM] haven’t been announced yet, but we expect a cost of anywhere between $7,000 and $10,000 for the basic vehicle-to-home bundle that allows a house to be powered by an EV battery, including the necessary equipment and installation.

In the case of the Ford F-150 Lightning, installing the so-called Intelligent Backup Power system costs anywhere from $7,500 to $15,000.

It's literally two pieces of equipment. A bi-directional charger and an automatic shutoff. You'd need a charger anyway, so the only additional piece of equipment is an automatic shutoff.

Typical cost of L2 charging is around $1000 incl. installation. Per the source above, adding the equipment to power the whole house costs 7X-15X that. I suspect that is "quite a bit" to most people.

The Powerwall 3 costs around $6K before installation (source). Since the cost is comparable to or less than the V2H solution, I'd much rather have a Powerwall, since it would provide around-the-clock power backup even when the EV is not home, and it would not cause additional wear on my EV's battery.

The person you are responding to did not say it wasn't expensive. He said it was not a lot of equipment. If he's correct that it's only two items, then I would agree with him -- it's not a lot of equipment, it's just expensive equipment.

There's pedantic, and then there's ridiculous. I'm out.