Teen allowance in HCOL area

[psteinx]

LOL - come on, if you aren't even going to put in the effort why bother at all. A trite medium post that looks AI generated by someone with 1 follower that offers no evidence or support, just condescending conjecture about the working class sensibilities of admissions officers...

There's very little hard data on the details of what college admissions officer prefer and don't, particularly when you get to the details of things like job vs. extra-curricular. FWIW, what I've seen on College Confidential, which should be taken with a LARGE dose of salt, IMO, is that jobs are fine, and ~on par with ECs, even for kids who don't obviously need the money. (Of course, the specifics in question would matter.)

We discouraged our kids from having jobs, during the school year, in HS. But they DID consistently have jobs during summers (except COVID summer of 2020.) I think this is the way to go.

As for the OP's Q - some of the teen's spending seems a little frivolous and trimmable. And "forced savings" (I pay you $150, you put $75 into savings) is a little odd. I don't remember exactly the amount my wife gave our kids as allowance - probably on the order of ~$50/mo. Supplement that with birthday and Christmas money from grandparents, and summer job money, and they did fine. While it's not a bad idea to teach savings habits, the actual amount a 16 year old can meaningfully save is fairly trivial, versus that kid's longer-term income potential (for an apparently smart & ambitious kid like OP's).

[Morik]

She seems to be doing well in school, not getting in trouble (not doing drugs/drinking/vandalism/etc) when going out with friends, and keeping up with what you need her to do at home.
She is also taking on a lot of AP classes and seems to be putting good effort into her academics assuming her grades are reasonable in those classes.

I would personally bump the allowance in this case. If she were doing mediocre in school and not really pushing herself in any areas of her life, I would probably make a different decision. But given how much effort she is putting into her academic life and extra-curriculars/etc, I think its fair to pay her more for doing well at what is essentially her job as a teenager (doing well in school/prepping for her future).

I will also say that if her allowance was already fairly big and she was overspending, that would be a different issue. But ~$50/week of fun money for an older teenager seems reasonable to me in a HCOL area.

Anecdotally, I recall being shocked as a young teenager that my cousin who was living in Vermont received a $50/week allowance from his parents. This was in the early 90s. I think I was getting $5/week (in a higher COL area than Vermont). I didn't really do extra-curriculars at school and started working part time when I was 15 (my parents stopped my allowance at that point). At that time $50/week seemed really high. I think now-adays it is a reasonable amount though.

[livesoft]

LOL - come on, if you aren't even going to put in the effort why bother at all. A trite medium post that looks AI generated by someone with 1 follower that offers no evidence or support, just condescending conjecture about the working class sensibilities of admissions officers...

You now have an opportunity to come up with real data. Serve it to me!

[LuckyInLife]

I think an increased allowance is entirely reasonable. If you want to impart money management lessons, why not have her come up with a budget for the amount she would like and then make sure she sticks to it. Perhaps recommend one of the budgeting apps to her. Neither of my now young adult children had jobs during school. They went to a rigorous private school and played sports and other extracurriculars and did not have time during the school year. Their jobs were to do well and get into their desired universities. When my daughter lived off campus during college, she got a monthly "allowance" to pay rent, utilities, groceries, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc. If she overspent in one area, she had to learn to cut back in another. She now has an adult job and is off the family payroll. Son is still a student

[avalpert1]

LOL - come on, if you aren't even going to put in the effort why bother at all. A trite medium post that looks AI generated by someone with 1 follower that offers no evidence or support, just condescending conjecture about the working class sensibilities of admissions officers...

You now have an opportunity to come up with real data. Serve it to me!

I'm looking - the best I've got so far is dated (from 1997) and indirect analysis since they didn't look to draw this conclusion - but data in the book No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission (figure 2.3) shows the percent of applicants listing a part-time job in their extracurricular activities dips from 45% among working class, 41%, middle class, 33% upper middle, 13% upper class while admission rates move in the opposite direction.

[cosmos]

If your daughter is too busy to get a job now, will she also be too busy to do so in college? And is it nevertheless your serious expectation she will magically become financially self-sufficient upon leaving college?

I never worked during the school year and was financially self sufficient as soon as I got my first job after graduation. My parents viewed doing well in school as my job. I was expected to have a job in the summer once I was 16. My parents told me to find a job on my own, or my dad would get me one detailing school busses for his employer for the summer. I dithered around and ended up washing busses. That job really sucked, but I learned a valuable lesson, and I found my own job the summers after that.

My parents also helped me out a bunch as a young adult with a loan (and a bunch of work) for repairs and improvements on my first house and with a car loan for my first new car. I could've made it on my own, but the help gave me a big leg up and set me on a boglehead path to hopefully early retirement. It's been common in my family to give loans to the younger generation. We typically set the interest rate halfway between prevailing CD rates and what a bank loan would be. That way both parties come out ahead.

I feel like there's a bit too much of an 'I had to suffer, so my kids should too' attitude on Bogleheads. My parents did a lot to try and give me a better financial life than they had, and I plan to pay it forward to my son.

working for your own spending money is not "suffering". People who give allowances to their teen kids live in a different universe from my and my wife's upbringings. My daughter made jewelry and sold at fairs and on etsy for her spending money. My son worked for our business for his. They both played sports and had other activities and were great students. They are both frugal now as young adults and know how to save and the value of a dollar.

I never got an allowance as a kid and we were upper middle class so it wasnt a cost thing more of a Dad wants to ensure he does not raise bums approach. Prior to 16 if I got invited to or went out with friends or needed a commisary account at summer camp he would fund that albeit far less than most other parents but more than enough. At 16 I got a job as there would be no funding after that no matter what and yes I was on sports teams and other normal teen stuff too.

I am with you on the suffering part...

[yankees60]

I think an increased allowance is entirely reasonable. If you want to impart money management lessons, why not have her come up with a budget for the amount she would like and then make sure she sticks to it. Perhaps recommend one of the budgeting apps to her. Neither of my now young adult children had jobs during school. They went to a rigorous private school and played sports and other extracurriculars and did not have time during the school year. Their jobs were to do well and get into their desired universities. When my daughter lived off campus during college, she got a monthly "allowance" to pay rent, utilities, groceries, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc. If she overspent in one area, she had to learn to cut back in another. She now has an adult job and is off the family payroll. Son is still a student

What about summers?

I never had jobs While I was going to school because I always wanted to make doing my homework the top priority. However I did work each summer starting at age 16, The next 2 being highly lucrative With being a temporary mailman for those 2 summers.

[MoneyOCD]

We had similar problem when daughter were in high school, but she also worked about 10 hrs per week to supplement allowance. Just to give her money was not the option, we could afford but felt it would send wrong message, so we bumped her allowances significantly with shifting some responsibilities to her - it included taking care of her dog (everything -vet, food, toys), all her clothing, all school supplies, all eating out and entertainment with friend, gifts, hobbies and sports. We continue to pay for her healthcare, food at home or out with us, family travel. Basically forced her to have her own budget that have not only wants but also needs and responsibilities for others (dog). That was interesting adjustments at the beginning she was super excited to see such significant increase, but she quickly learned that she can not buy extra wants when needs and responsibilities are not covered first. It also made transition to the college life much easier when she started to live on her own.

[Nohbdy]

Thank you for all the comments, good to see diverse opinions and rationale - they all helped a lot clear my thinking.

To address some questions:
- the overloaded junior year definitely will help for college, especially for scholarships. Clubs also matter as she is president in one, VP in another, and youth secretary for Model UN, these are leadership positions that are practically required on college app. The volunteering is also required for some scholarships and awards, she does 3-4 hours a week on average year-round. Etc. We think her commitments are a good investment (time for her and money for us) and wouldn't cut. So any job during school year has to be flexible on time, not an easy proposition around town
- comparing the 2 kids doesn't make sense - the 13-year old gets a smaller allowance ($50 spending to her $75), but he doesn't go out much with friends yet, and purchases less (yes for snacks, yes for video games, no to makeup ).
- reviewing her spending, there is some to cut in my opinion (the said makeup, jewelry), but with friends they usually go twice a month to a ramen place ($20-25), grab boba ($7) and stroll around town. Not exactly extravagant, but adds up to over half her budget
- we can afford it, just want to instill budgeting or rather money mgmt habits for future, since her chosen field of study is not exactly a lucrative one

All in all, we are probably coming to a solution
- She'll cut down some, she was quite stressed after yesterday's review and realizing the shortage
- We'll up the spending portion to $100 a month (a couple of people suggested that level), probably for fairness need to up kid #2 as well
- Her savings portion will bail her out this time, and we'll allow her to access - but not make her whole - if used, it's not there for college
- She'll think more about flexible job options, keep her eyes open. And next summer plans to lifeguard
- I've promised her a nice bonus if she hits 1530 or more on the SAT, also a good investment

I like your plan. It does seem like she is killing it and I don’t think $100/mo is an extravagant sum. It might even be a little light. The concern is more about learning to right size spending and not getting carried away by the consumer noise.

The life skill of being able to live on less when needed has been more valuable (also far more controllable) to me personally than the skill of working harder and earning more. Teaching the kids to live within their budget is more important than empowering them to spend their parents’ money unchecked.

[andypanda]

We have 2 grandsons, ages 5 and 8. I had a reality check some time back when I was trying to figure out how much cash to put in the older ones birthday card. My wifes buys all the gifts pretty much and the boy loves to save money.

I considered my grandparents, all born between 1890 and 1895. The oldest had retired when I was small and they would put $5 in my card in 1955 and maybe $10 starting in 1960. So what's that now?

$5 in 1955 according to the inflation calculator is now $58.95.
$10 in '60 is now $107.44.

Okay. Times passes quickly and a dollar isn't worth much these days.

[nanciT]

We are also in HCOL area ( Northern CA) Both my kids were in Sports, Drama etc. Both got a job. My daughter worked on weekends babysitting and my son got a job at a local electronics store. They were able to work around their school commitments.

They both developed great work ethics and continued to work while in collage. They had small jobs for their own spending money.

Most kids they went to high school and college with worked small jobs.

Looking back I think it helped both of them and they are both working in excellent positions they are happy with.

[invest4]

16 yo allowance? Time for them to get a job at Mickey D's , Starbucks, etc. if they want the finer things in life.

This is my sentiment as well. It’s all about choices and trade-offs. Of course, if you think the other activities are more important, and do not want to curb her spending, you can absolutely provide her with additional subsidies.

There is no wrong answer, everyone has different ideas about what makes sense. Our setup includes our children taking more financial responsibilities as they age (phones, car insurance, etc). Inevitably, the expenses necessitate choices including part time job to satisfy those needs as well as some of their wants…just like the rest of us.

YMMV.


Best wishes.

[baconavocado]

- I've promised her a nice bonus if she hits 1530 or more on the SAT, also a good investment

Great idea! Much better than a bonus for points scored in a lacrosse game (my neighbor's plan).

[one_speed]

If teen doesn't get a wage earning job now, they won't be on schedule to post here in their 40's about burnout & strong desire to retire early.

Edited to add: it seems perfectly reasonable that teenager who is doing well in other areas and even excelling in a few can be granted the leeway for additional discretionary expenses. I have no data, but seems to reason that your household's overall guidance on money & money issues, including your own approach to career, spending etc. may have a bigger impact than a "flipping burgers" type of job.

[Beensabu]

My cousin got $20/wk in the late '90s, and I thought that was amazing (mostly because I did not get an allowance at all).

Adjusted for inflation, that's pretty much $40/wk now.

There were no savings rules attached for anyone I knew who got an allowance. They just got handed cash once a week by a parent.

Why don't you keep the allowance as is and take away the savings rule? Let her figure it out. She's going to have to eventually.

[fuddbogle]

If your daughter is too busy to get a job now, will she also be too busy to do so in college? And is it nevertheless your serious expectation she will magically become financially self-sufficient upon leaving college?

Yes, and she is.

The 2 youngest of our 3 daughters worked a few part time jobs in HS and College. The 2 youngest are doing well. Our oldest never worked in HS (full time softball schedule) or College, beyond her summer college internships. Our oldest at 26, after her next promotion, which her boss just expressed his interest to her, she will be making more than both me and her mother. We are mid 50's. She's financially self-sufficient to say the least.

OP, a lot of what you're reading in this thread is gobbledygook. It doesn't have to be a *job* that promotes independence or financial stability or a good work ethic. What you've described is exactly what your daughter should be doing, if that is her interests. She should continue that. Giving her an extra $25/week won't make a hill of beans difference either way. We personally gave our daughters money as needed.

[MBB_Boy]

She’s fine - just increase the allowance by $20. Things are insanely priced nowadays - back in my day $5 would get you a coke, hamburger and fries.

Ignore the comments about a job - even if she could get hired in this economy (which is doubtful - labor force composition has changed very greatly even in the past few years to the point it doesn’t make sense to hire teens when you can hire adults full-time in most metros) no good university will prioritize an hourly job in a university application compared to extracurriculars and internships (it might even hurt your application if you appear declassé).

Spend that time on internships and extracurriculars.

The part about not prioritizing an hourly job is patently false. I can tell you directly from college admissions experience at a Top 15 school

To OP: I agree with upping the allowance some BECAUSE of her reaction during the review. Its attitude and behavior you are trying to teach, right? Seems like you got the right reaction and I don't moving to $100 is going to undo all that hard work, especially not with an appropriate conversation for this teaching moment

[yankees60]

If teen doesn't get a wage earning job now, they won't be on schedule to post here in their 40's about burnout & strong desire to retire early.

Edited to add: it seems perfectly reasonable that teenager who is doing well in other areas and even excelling in a few can be granted the leeway for additional discretionary expenses. I have no data, but seems to reason that your household's overall guidance on money & money issues, including your own approach to career, spending etc. may have a bigger impact than a "flipping burgers" type of job.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yankees60]

If your daughter is too busy to get a job now, will she also be too busy to do so in college? And is it nevertheless your serious expectation she will magically become financially self-sufficient upon leaving college?

Yes, and she is.

The 2 youngest of our 3 daughters worked a few part time jobs in HS and College. The 2 youngest are doing well. Our oldest never worked in HS (full time softball schedule) or College, beyond her summer college internships. Our oldest at 26, after her next promotion, which her boss just expressed his interest to her, she will be making more than both me and her mother. We are mid 50's. She's financially self-sufficient to say the least.

OP, a lot of what you're reading in this thread is gobbledygook. It doesn't have to be a *job* that promotes independence or financial stability or a good work ethic. What you've described is exactly what your daughter should be doing, if that is her interests. She should continue that. Giving her an extra $25/week won't make a hill of beans difference either way. We personally gave our daughters money as needed.

Excellent personal testimonial and advice!

[Isabelle77]

I think $100 a month is perfectly fine. I did want to point out though that your daughter can absolutely still work. My son is a senior, works as a lifeguard 10 hours a week, volunteers at a hospital 4 hours a week, is captain of a varsity sport and the school trivia team and takes 5 AP classes, he's a straight A student. We live in Lake Wobegan, obviously.

In all seriousness, he's very busy but still has friends and a girlfriend. We give him an allowance that he mostly spends on gas money and he saves everything he makes at his job because we don't provide an allowance in college for our kids. Being so busy has been really great for him, I was concerned at first but having a full schedule has been good.

Our daughter needed more time for schoolwork so she only worked 5 hours a week on Sundays while maintaining a solid extracurricular schedule. She is thriving in college.

[brian91480]

My kids have an allowance, which goes 50/50 to savings/spending.

Are you happy with the way your child is developing into a young adult?

If yes... Then don't fix what's not broken. Up the allowance.

If you aren't happy with their development, then don't up the allowance.

A lot of parents wish they had a kid doing AP classes, volunteering, leading multiple student clubs, and trying to start their own side hustle with tutoring income. So you know what direction I'm leaning.

But only your opinion matters... Not anyone else on this forum of strangers.

-- Brian

[Cobra Commander]

I didn't read all of the responses but why not pay her for her volunteering hours? She is presumably doing productive work during that time so it keeps the link of working and getting money and also provides a positive for her college applications.

[yankees60]

My kids have an allowance, which goes 50/50 to savings/spending.

Are you happy with the way your child is developing into a young adult?

If yes... Then don't fix what's not broken. Up the allowance.

If you aren't happy with their development, then don't up the allowance.

A lot of parents wish they had a kid doing AP classes, volunteering, leading multiple student clubs, and trying to start their own side hustle with tutoring income. So you know what direction I'm leaning.

But only your opinion matters... Not anyone else on this forum of strangers.

-- Brian

Exactly!

[DrChronzworth]

The part about not prioritizing an hourly job is patently false. I can tell you directly from college admissions experience at a Top 15 school

To OP: I agree with upping the allowance some BECAUSE of her reaction during the review. Its attitude and behavior you are trying to teach, right? Seems like you got the right reaction and I don't moving to $100 is going to undo all that hard work, especially not with an appropriate conversation for this teaching moment

You worked in the admissions office?

Because as I mentioned I’ve done hiring for sophomore interns at top ten schools within the past couple years and I don’t see a lot of hourly jobs on student resumes. Maybe they’re hiding them by sophomore year…

I also used to do interviews for college admissions as an alum at my undergrad (a top 15 per USNews) a few years ago and didn’t recall many hourly jobs.

[LifeAquaticTenenbaum]

Have them work jobs in the summer if they don't have time during the school year.

You can easily bank $3000-$4000 in today's job market working 20 hours a week in the summer. That's enough to give them probably an extra $75 a week for the entire year.

Anecdotally, most people I know who grew up working as a teenager are much better on the personal finance side of things, grateful, etc.

[MBB_Boy]

The part about not prioritizing an hourly job is patently false. I can tell you directly from college admissions experience at a Top 15 school

To OP: I agree with upping the allowance some BECAUSE of her reaction during the review. Its attitude and behavior you are trying to teach, right? Seems like you got the right reaction and I don't moving to $100 is going to undo all that hard work, especially not with an appropriate conversation for this teaching moment

You worked in the admissions office?

Because as I mentioned I’ve done hiring for sophomore interns at top ten schools within the past couple years and I don’t see a lot of hourly jobs on student resumes. Maybe they’re hiding them by sophomore year…

I also used to do interviews for college admissions as an alum at my undergrad (a top 15 per USNews) a few years ago and didn’t recall many hourly jobs.

Yes.

And there is a difference between not a lot of students having this on their applications, and the view you expressed that admissions offices view it unfavorably. Uncommon doesn't mean bad.

What survives on their resume when recruiting for internships and what is part of their admissions applications are two separate things regardless. I had a job during college (lifeguard) and it wasn't a part of my internship resumes - because it wasn't relevant. But college applications are holistic so most things are relevant