Vanguard to Exit Individual 401(k), Multi-SEP, and SIMPLE IRA Plans With Ascensus Deal

[Infomom2]

Hi all.

Thanks everyone for chiming in with your experiences so far. I know receiving differing responses from Ascnesus and the other companies is highly frustrating.

I'm preparing to speak to an attorney about all of these issues and the various i401K transfer/restatement methods we are being told to do by Ascensus and other actors. However, getting counsel from an attorney, or a TPA, is not a quick phone call. It takes time and preparation and money. Once I get my questions answered, I will share them here, though please know that the answers to my specific questions may not fit everyone's situation. It won't be your silver bullet.

In preparation for my interaction with the attorney, I need a few more questions answered from our Boglehead community.

1. For those of you who have left Ascensus, did you receive any WRITTEN instructions from them about how to proceed...or...were the instructions all VERBAL, over the phone, from a customer service rep? If you received written instructions, please tell me how, such as a link to an Ascnesus web page, an email, a PDF sent to you, etc.

2. I understand that we are told to terminate ourselves as employees, but are we also at some point in the process told to terminate the plan itself? Or is the plan left open at Ascensus with a zero balance for awhile/indefinitely? (I know we DON'T want to actually terminate the plan in the eyes of the IRS, but what I am asking is specifically what is Ascensus telling us to do regarding closing or not closing the plan in their records?)

3. How are dividends handled after we are terminated as employees from the plan? I'm assuming we won't get any because we are selling our index funds before dividends are paid, but let me know if I'm wrong.

4. I haven't received the migration paperwork from Ascensus (the migration from VG to Ascents). Did you receive it via email, or is it somewhere in your portal?

Thank you

Thanks for being willing to share whatever info you are able to get. I can only answer your last question. I received the migration paperwork from Ascensus in an email that I believe is via docusign. The first time they sent it to me was 9/17 (I think some others received it before then, so not sure if they are doing it in batches or what).

[ReluctantAccountant]

I have been lurking on this post for a while, as I have been struggling with the same Ascensus drama as many others here.

Today I'm finally going to chime in with a few points that I hope are helpful, but are also mildly infuriating, because as you know, this has been a pretty miserable experience for all of us

• This morning someone from Ascensus called me! I've emailed them multiple times because I wanted my concerns to be in writing. Today I got a phone call from Ascensus, and the woman said that their current systems only allow "rollovers" BUT there is a workaround to "cheat the system" (her words) and have the transfer be coded so that no 1099 is issued at year-end. She said to fill out the "Payout Request Form" and for Distribution Reason, check "Other" and then type in something along the lines of "transfer to new firm/custodian."
  
  customerservice@service.ascensus.com emailed me the form, along with a copy of the Plan Document that I had requested in one of my many emails.

• I'm not sure if the phone call was triggered by a FINRA complaint I filed last week, or if it's a coincidence. I don't know which regulatory agency has jurisdiction over solo 401k plans. Because they are not ERISA plans, apparently the DOL does not have jurisdiction. (I spoke with a very nice person at the DOL who did some research for me and this is what they told me.) I'm thinking it's the IRS but I have not been in contact with them.

• https://iraresourcecenter.ascensus.com/ ... 010601.pdf This link is a recent reference document created by Ascensus; it's dated July 2024. There is a great section about transfers and changing trustees, which I'll quote below. Ascensus needs to follow their own instructions and allow us to transfer, and not roll over, our funds.
  

  Changing Trustees
  
  An employer may wish to change the plan sponsor or trustee for investment options or perhaps other reasons. Such a change requires an amendment to the plan documents. The easiest way to accomplish this is with an “amendment and restatement” of the plan. The phrase “amendment and restatement” also is used to describe the amendment process used to incorporate amendments for law changes into the plan document.
  
  An amendment and restatement of a plan refers to the process of adopting new plan documents with the intent of using the new plan documents as a continuation of an existing plan. The plan generally retains its same eligibility criteria, contribution formula, vesting schedule, distribution options, etc. The amendment merely names a new plan sponsor (and trustee, if applicable). The OFB under the new plan must be at least as generous as under the prior plan (IRC Sec. 411(d)(6)).
  
  Because the plan continues, the employer takes no steps to formally terminate the original documents. The steps needed to change sponsors include the following. The employer completes the appropriate plan documents provided by the new plan sponsor. The new documents should reflect that the plan is an amendment and restatement or a continuation of an existing plan. The employer requests, in writing, that the original sponsor issue a check to the new sponsor for the total plan balance, with any necessary adjustments for early withdrawal penalties, etc.
  
  The original sponsor indicates in its files that the plan assets were transferred to another plan sponsor (trustee or custodian). Because the transaction is handled as a transfer, no distribution reporting or withholding is necessary. The employer should provide participants with a summary of material modifications (SMM).
  
  NOTE: Transfers that arise as the result of a change in plan trustee/custodian often are confused with direct rollovers (which are discussed in detail in Chapter 10, Portability). Transfers (which are nonreportable transactions) generally are initiated by the employer maintaining the plan and entail the movement of an entire plan, intact, to a new trustee or custodian. Direct rollovers (which are reportable transactions) are initiated by an employee or beneficiary and represent the movement of such participant’s balance to a completely different plan (either a different QRP or an IRA).

[ascensusOMG]

I've been following this thread and while I don't have new information to add, just I appreciate everyone who has tried to get clarity on how the heck to ditch the Ascensus for Fidelity or Schwab. The thread's length and complexity is daunting. To summarize what the main take home points are for those perhaps stumbling upon this thread and too tired to spend hours reading through it:

Ascensus is not allowing a restatement and amendment of our 401k's the way we want them to when transferring our plans to Fidelity or Schwab. Instead they are suggesting a technical workaround by which they ask us to terminate ourselves as employees, then they release a check that can be deposited to a plan at Fidelity or Schwab. Mysolo401k has written an article in which they state that this workaround probably is fine, as long as Ascensus does not issue a 1099-R reporting it as a taxable event. The logic behind this makes sense to me but it requires trusting that Ascensus will not report it as a taxable event come 1099-R season, which given their general incompetence to me seems risky. Some have tried this backdoor method and I hope next year they report back whether it went smoothly or whether Asensus screwed them by reporting it as taxable. link to mysolo401k article: https://www.mysolo401k.net/how-to-trans ... -ascensus/

It seems like the safe move is still to just wait this out and see if Ascensus eventually figures out how to do what we want them to do, and/or see what happens next year at tax time to those who followed Ascensus' work around, and eat their fees in the meantime. I hate them and really don't want to give them my money but the worry and near part-time-job level of work just to follow and try and understand the problem is costly too.

[Conlina]

Ok, I have an update. I have now talked to three people. The first walked me through terminating myself as employee (none of the three people I talked to nor the person emailing me have any idea why this is necessary) and filling out a paper form and sending by email and assured me that it would be sent electronically as a non taxable rollover.

I called again when I see here that nobody else has gotten this process of electronic transfer and that nobody has contacted me for routing info. The 2nd person says she sees my form in process and that I will receive a check. They don't wire money, I should receive a check in 7-10 business days and will hear before it's sent with confirmation. That was a week ish ago.

Today, I get an email stating there is information missing. I need to complete more steps to terminate my plan. I write immediately instructing them NOT to terminate the plan. I also get a VM today so I return the call. On the call, the third person I've talked to says I need to do this online. The form is slower and doesn't complete all the necessary steps. So, then I go through what I imagine is the same process as everyone else.

I went online and completed the distribution/termination with a request to rollover 100% to Fidelity. I was assured that I will receive a check in 7-10 business days written to Fidelity and no further steps needed. This will be sent regular USPS mail with no tracking number. I was also assured the check will not have taxes or fees taken and will represent 100% of the account on the day they empty the account. I was also assured this is not a taxable event and will not receive any forms at the end of the year indicating that I actually terminated a plan or received a taxable distribution to myself.

I can't wait for this to be done!

[GoldenBear17]

Ok, I have an update. I have now talked to three people. The first walked me through terminating myself as employee (none of the three people I talked to nor the person emailing me have any idea why this is necessary) and filling out a paper form and sending by email and assured me that it would be sent electronically as a non taxable rollover.

I called again when I see here that nobody else has gotten this process of electronic transfer and that nobody has contacted me for routing info. The 2nd person says she sees my form in process and that I will receive a check. They don't wire money, I should receive a check in 7-10 business days and will hear before it's sent with confirmation. That was a week ish ago.

Today, I get an email stating there is information missing. I need to complete more steps to terminate my plan. I write immediately instructing them NOT to terminate the plan. I also get a VM today so I return the call. On the call, the third person I've talked to says I need to do this online. The form is slower and doesn't complete all the necessary steps. So, then I go through what I imagine is the same process as everyone else.

I went online and completed the distribution/termination with a request to rollover 100% to Fidelity. I was assured that I will receive a check in 7-10 business days written to Fidelity and no further steps needed. This will be sent regular USPS mail with no tracking number. I was also assured the check will not have taxes or fees taken and will represent 100% of the account on the day they empty the account. I was also assured this is not a taxable event and will not receive any forms at the end of the year indicating that I actually terminated a plan or received a taxable distribution to myself.

I can't wait for this to be done!

Thank you for updating. I had a feeling you'd eventually end up doing the usual process. But what a mess Ascensus is. Imagine a rep confidently walking you all the way through a non-existent process. They are all on different pages there.

I believe you can pay them something like $30 to have the check sent in 2-3 days. I don't know if it's too late for you to ask about that.

[Conlina]

I decided against paying for the expedited because it gets sent the same way (no tracking number, etc) just faster.

[GoldenBear17]

I decided against paying for the expedited because it gets sent the same way (no tracking number, etc) just faster.

Might save 3 or 4 days being out of the market so having it sent faster is appealing. Also helps get the whole process done a few days sooner and off your plate. But it depends how much those few days are worth to you I guess.

[keyfort]

Why does the Ascensus Docusign say:

"The term of this Agreement will begin on 12/31/2024"? But it's still valid for from July whatever 2024 when they took over from Vanguard?

Also: does anyone know if we can completely terminate the whole plan at Ascensus (I know I'll have to do a final 5500-EZ)?

I am planning to do this near the end of the year after making contributions, and then do a rollover of the traditional and Roth to a Fidelity IRA. I'm 41 years old. I assume this is fine as long as I don't open another solo 401k for 12 months after terminating this one.

[GoldenBear17]

[Post merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

I posted a question relevant to this thread in another thread (viewtopic.php?p=8061048#p8061048). But I think it makes more sense and is more likely to get a response in this one so I hope it's ok that I repost it here with slight modification.

I'm really struggling with whether to do something to compensate for my time out of the market when I move my money from Ascensus' Solo 401(k) to elsewhere. They are forcing us to do a direct rollover and send us a check even though that's not technically the proper way to restate a plan. I'm not sure the exact amount of time it will be out of the market. I will probably pay to have the expedited checks sent over 2-3 days. Not sure how many more days it will take to get the funds settled in the new accounts and invested. I imagine it will be around 7 or 8 business days out of the market. If anyone else has done this Solo 401(k) transfer from Ascensus, please let us know how long you were out of the market. Does that timeframe sound about right?

I will have somewhere around $20K that's in a target date fund normally 90% stocks/10% bonds out of the market during this time. Not a huge amount. But given my overall portfolio it may be a bit more of a meaningful proportion than that would be for some.

I have 3 options I see given my situation.

1) Do nothing and just take my chances. If the market goes up 2-3 bucks during that time, I could lose out on around $500-$1000 in gains. (I guess I'd also buy back in at a higher price, get less shares, and perhaps lose out on some dividends every year going forward too.)

2) I have my Roth IRA all invested in the same target date fund. I could move it all to something like a total market or SP500 fund (or a proportional mix of total and international stock funds as in the target date fund) during that time. The 10% that are in bonds in the target date fund would then be in stocks. This would compensate only for about half of the potential loss in the Solo 401(k) if the market goes up. But the benefit is it's in a Roth IRA so I can easily just buy back into the target date fund a week or so later with no taxes or hassles. Am I correct that there would be no issue at all exchanging all the money in the Roth IRA to other funds and then exchanging it all back to the target date fund a week or so later?

3) If it was worth doing, I could keep money in my taxable account that was going to be in T-Bills instead in cash until the transfer happens and then put enough of it to totally compensate into a total market or SP500 fund for that week or so. The downside here is obviously I'd have to pay short-term capital gains if it went up in that period and if it went down deal with tax loss harvesting. Much more hassle. I'd also have to watch out for wash sale issues. And I'd lose out a bit by keeping that money in cash to do this that I"d otherwise have in T-Bills sooner, not paying state tax and before the rates drop a bit more in the coming weeks.

My final concern is, if I do choose to compensate, how to time all this so the money changes funds at the exact times the transfer leaves my Ascensus account and gets reinvested on the other side.

What would you guys do in this situation?

[the_wiki]

Just keep in mind, being out of the market is just as likely to be a positive. You can miss losses as easily as gains.

[GoldenBear17]

Just keep in mind, being out of the market is just as likely to be a positive. You can miss losses as easily as gains.

I'm well aware. But even if it was 50/50 I hate to gamble like that. To me it would be similar to why timing the market is bad. Beyond that, the market goes up more days than down so it isn't even 50/50 and I think you have a higher chance of missing gains than losses. I'm not really loving the idea of taking a chance where I could either lose or gain $1000 or more in a week and have to lock it in forever going forward. But I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the 3 options I mentioned.

[Caduceus]

Since you're only talking about $1000 or so in potential losses (from the market moving up during the period you are not invested), in your situation, I would just do the transfer and take no mitigating steps.

If it really bothers you, then use the cash in the taxable account and re-allocate to the target fund your transfer cash would have been invested in. Sure, as you pointed out, you'd have to pay tax if it goes up, but surely paying tax is better than making nothing.

[tibbitts]

I think most battle-worn Bogleheads have already made up their minds on this issue, but I'm not sure everyone understands how confusing this must be to a newbie:

- threads asking about some whacky timing scheme that results in being out of the market from a day preceding to a day following Groundhog Day or some such are slapped down with "if you miss the best 3 days of the market every year you'll be doomed to never retire!"

- threads asking about being out of the market during a rollover for maybe a few days, or a week, or - given we may be dealing with physical mail - indefinitely - are met with "no big deal; you might even benefit."

[Carl53]

I recall being out of the market for over two weeks in the fall of 2008 while my 401k funds transferred to VG IRA. Nerve wracking and it was rather expensive. Of course once the funds finally arrived at VG, then I had to go through the pain of reinvesting during a most turbulent time. When the dust settled, over the first twelve months of my retirement, we were down nearly 40%.

[GoldenBear17]

Since you're only talking about $1000 or so in potential losses (from the market moving up during the period you are not invested), in your situation, I would just do the transfer and take no mitigating steps.

If it really bothers you, then use the cash in the taxable account and re-allocate to the target fund your transfer cash would have been invested in. Sure, as you pointed out, you'd have to pay tax if it goes up, but surely paying tax is better than making nothing.

I guess how much $1000 is is relative to your portfolio. For me it's not a massive amount but it's not nothing either.

I'm afraid to put the cash in taxable in the same target fund as I hold in the Roth IRA and Solo 401(k) because I assume if it ends up losing money in taxable, I'd want to harvest that loss, but then I'd end up with a wash sale when I buy back into the target fund right after in the Solo 401(k). So I'd have to invest it in something a little different, right? I was thinking maybe VTI.

[GoldenBear17]

I think most battle-worn Bogleheads have already made up their minds on this issue, but I'm not sure everyone understands how confusing this must be to a newbie:

- threads asking about some whacky timing scheme that results in being out of the market from a day preceding to a day following Groundhog Day or some such are slapped down with "if you miss the best 3 days of the market every year you'll be doomed to never retire!"

- threads asking about being out of the market during a rollover for maybe a few days, or a week, or - given we may be dealing with physical mail - indefinitely - are met with "no big deal; you might even benefit."

Exactly. Obviously missing a few of the best days in the market just once isn't catastrophic probably. But if that risk can be easily offset, then why not? But you're right that this contrast between the two responses is confusing.

[GoldenBear17]

I recall being out of the market for over two weeks in the fall of 2008 while my 401k funds transferred to VG IRA. Nerve wracking and it was rather expensive. Of course once the funds finally arrived at VG, then I had to go through the pain of reinvesting during a most turbulent time. When the dust settled, over the first twelve months of my retirement, we were down nearly 40%.

Damn. That's my nightmare, though I don't think it could be that extreme for me given the amounts involved. But if you could go back, which of my options I listed would you have done?

[Carl53]

I recall being out of the market for over two weeks in the fall of 2008 while my 401k funds transferred to VG IRA. Nerve wracking and it was rather expensive. Of course once the funds finally arrived at VG, then I had to go through the pain of reinvesting during a most turbulent time. When the dust settled, over the first twelve months of my retirement, we were down nearly 40%.

Damn. That's my nightmare, though I don't think it could be that extreme for me given the amounts involved. But if you could go back, which of my options I listed would you have done?

For the amounts you are talking about, I'd look for the one that I thought would be the least effort on my part which for you is Option 1. In my case, I was not being forced to move out of the 401k, just moving it as I thought I'd have cheaper options w VG. Not a smart thing to do during a very turbulent time for markets.

[Ydenawa]

I just submitted the paperwork to rollover from ascensus to fidelity. It was a pain and paid 30 bucks extra to get the faster check delivery. Ultimately I think it will be worth it despite the hassle.

[LadyGeek]

I merged GoldenBear17's post and ensuing discussion into this thread.

[Ret2018]

Why does the Ascensus Docusign say:

"The term of this Agreement will begin on 12/31/2024"? But it's still valid for from July whatever 2024 when they took over from Vanguard?

Does anyone have an answer for this? Or discussed it with Ascensus?

[Ret2018]

Here is an update on my nearly hour long phone call with Ascensus today:
1) There were mistakes in the identifying information in my migration package recordkeeping service and trust agreements. The Ascensus rep sent me a secure link to amend the Plan. I told the rep I did not want to amend the Plan; I wanted the agreements to have the correct identifying information. This did not get resolved today.

2) There is a sentence in section 3.01 of the recordkeeping service agreement (migration package pdf pg. 4) regarding fees that does not make any sense. It states, "In addition, upon written notice and on no more than an annual basis, Ascensus may raise the base fee as set forth in Schedule B by the greater of the Consumer Price Index or 2 Annual Service fees are payable annually." The rep consulted with someone, but was unable to clarify the intent of this language. This did not get resolved today.

3) The effective date of both the recordkeeping service and trust agreements is 12/31/2024. The rep confirmed that the agreements in the migration package do not become effective until midnight on 12/31/2024. The rep explained that this was to allow people to move plans, and so that no fees would be charged in 2024. The rep added that fees would not charged until the beginning of the third quarter of next year.
a) Schedule B (Fees) in the migration package states that the trust and record keeping fees are charged in the fourth quarter, and that only the full account liquidation fees are waived for the 2024 calendar year. This apprent contradiction in information did not get resolved today.
b) I asked the rep if the agreements in the migration package are not effective until midnight 12/31/2024, what agreements govern the current contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus? The rep consulted with someone, then referred me to the prototype plan document. That document does not govern the contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus. When I pointed this out, the rep consulted with someone else, and responded that current agreements are being sent out "in a month or so." The rep confirmed that the rep was unable to identify agreements that govern the current contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus. At that point, the rep stated they were referring my questions to the legal department for resolution. I requested that the response be sent to me via email. This did not get resolved today.

4) During the course of the conversation, I discovered that I was never sent a "welcome" email with six attachments. Those documents include
-Ascensus Basic Plan (what appears to be the Ascensus prototype plan)
-digital capabilities guide
-rollover instructions
-manually enter contributions instructions
-IRS opinion letter dated 9/21/2020 for the Vanguard plan
-Auto ACH funding form.
If you did not receive this email you should call Ascensus at 833-688-0086 to request it.

The rep really tried to help, but just did not seem to have a sufficient knowledge base. After the call, I emailed Ascensus with a statement that I did not give my assent, deemed or otherwise, to the agreements until these issues were resolved. Will see what the response is, and if/when I hear from Ascensus' legal department.

[WoodSprite]

I spoke to an attorney who specializes in I-401Ks. If you would like his name and contact info, DM me.

Below is his advice. I asked if I could share what he told me with other small biz owners and he said yes.

Remember, this advice was for me and my situation. I am using MySolo401K who restated my plan documents and set up a trust for me for my plan. I am moving my assets to Schwab. So, I make no guarantee if the attorney's advice fits your situation or not. I suggest calling him (or a different attorney) to get your own advice. Phone calls are not particularly expensive, his was $125 for the call and I believe it was a good investment in my wellbeing. It's better to spend a little now to protect yourself down the road. This guy was excellent, very clear, down to earth and generous with his time/knowledge.

Here's what he told me during our phone consultation:

1. The instructions that MySolo401K lists on their website to exit Ascensus looks like they will work, so it's okay to go ahead and follow them. However, he was angry that Ascensus is making us do this in a way that is "stupid and complicated" and that opens us up to risks we shouldn't have to take.

2. Ascensus is not allowed to terminate our I-401K plan, only the owners of the plan can do that with a termination agreement document and the 5500 EZ.

3. This is NOT a rollover, it is an internal transfer (meaning within the plan) of the money to a new custodian.

4. Because there is no rollover, there should be no "distributions" and no 1099 issued. Ascensus is not allowed to send a 1099 and there is a penalty for them for doing so.

5. If they send a 1099-R anyway, as long as it is labeled not taxable, we will be okay. But...

6. If they screw up the 1099-R and label it as a taxable event, we WILL hear from the IRS (he called it a "love letter" ) saying we owe them. No matter what documentation we have and send back to the IRA, it will go unanswered and it will be a two year-ish process to clear our name which will include setting a date for a review court (sorry I don't remember the name of where we fight it, I was writing quickly). But as long as we have all the documentation it will be dismissed and we won't owe anything. But it's a 2 year long headache going through the process.

7. We need to write a letter/email and send it to Ascensus every way possible (to as many email addresses as we can find) saying that we are NOT terminating our plan, this is NOT a rollover and Ascensus is NOT to send a 1099.

8. He drafted the language for me to use in the above letter/email to Ascensus. He said I was free to pass this language on to other small biz owners who are also leaving Ascensus and restating but not closing their plans in the hope that if enough of us send it, perhaps Ascensus will listen and not send the 1099s.

After the call, he sent me an email recapping our conversation. Here it is:

Hi XXX,

Here’s a link to the tax code section I was talking about. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7434

To reiterate what I said on the phone, ignore what I said about 1040 and 5500ez reporting. Those only apply if a 1099 is issued. However 1099s are only issued if assets leave the plan. In this case if you are keeping the plan but merely restating it, no assets are leaving the plan and thus no 1099 is necessary. If they do issue you a 1099, give me another call and we can talk about the ways to mitigate the problems caused by it.

A sample email you should send to Ascensus would be something like:

Friends, in trying to move my 401k plans assets to a new provider I see the choices presented by your automated system require me to say I am terminating employees and doing a rollover of assets.

However I am not terminating any employee from my plan. Nor are any assets being moved out of the plan. Rather the plan is staying in existence, being restated, and the assets are being moved to a different investment provider. There will be no distributions.

Thus it is important to me that you do not issue a 1099 of any sort. I do not want the burden of telling the IRS that no assets were distributed and thus no 1099 was required. To that end please be aware of 26 U.S.C. 7434 that allows for damages if you willfully file a fraudulent 1099.

[Only put this part in if you still have your agreement with vanguard and it is true. I attached a copy of the relevant language] Furthermore my agreement with Vanguard said that they would do no tax reporting, rather all reporting was to be done by the trustees of the plan, me.

If you should have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

[WoodSprite]

Today I sent that email with a few tweaks to it to two email addresses at Ascensus. I'll list them below. I will look tomorrow for more addresses, so if you have any and would like to share them, please post. The more places that letter goes saying to NOT send us 1099s the better for ALL OF US.

customerservice@service.ascensus.com

education@ascensus.com

[GoldenBear17]

4. Because there is no rollover, there should be no "distributions" and no 1099 issued. Ascensus is not allowed to send a 1099 and there is a penalty for them for doing so.

5. If they send a 1099-R anyway, as long as it is labeled not taxable, we will be okay. But...

6. If they screw up the 1099-R and label it as a taxable event, we WILL hear from the IRS (he called it a "love letter" ) saying we owe them. No matter what documentation we have and send back to the IRA, it will go unanswered and it will be a two year-ish process to clear our name which will include setting a date for a review court (sorry I don't remember the name of where we fight it, I was writing quickly). But as long as we have all the documentation it will be dismissed and we won't owe anything. But it's a 2 year long headache going through the process.

Thank you, WoodSprite, for this great work and for sharing all of this so much.

Can this attorney tell you who it would be that would implement the penalty on Ascensus for issuing the 1099? Because if we knew that, perhaps we could contact them beforehand to tell them about this. From what I've seen nobody has been able to figure out who to report Ascensus' behavior to that is responsible for handling it and who could possibly put pressure on them to shape up. Perhaps whoever is in charge of penalizing a company like them for a false 1099 would know where we should lodge such a complaint.

I also wanted to clarify: So you are saying the attorney told you that as long as the 1099-R is labeled not taxable, there's no issue and we should be fine? The 2 year nightmare is only if they mislabel it as taxable? Although Ascensus seems to be screwing up almost everything, the one thing I haven't heard yet is them telling anyone this is a taxable event. Everyone at Ascensus has insisted they know this is non-taxable and that the 1099 will say that. In fact, it seems to be their main defense as to why we shouldn't worry about this process. So I doubt the 1099 will be taxable if they do issue one. Let's all hope.

It's extremely frustrating that we all know if Ascensus messed up and gave us a taxable 1099, the IRS would contact us quite quickly. Yet trying to get in touch with anyone now, ahead of time, to complain about this and prevent the trouble, there is nobody who can figure out who to contact. If any of us were able to figure out who to contact, that place or person would get a flood of complaints the next day and maybe something would be done.

Perhaps this attorney you hired would like to take on a class action suit? I can't even imagine how much money I deserve from Ascensus for the hundreds of hours and stress this has caused me and so many others.

So WoodSprite, I take it then that your plan, beyond sending Ascensus several emails to make clear your intentions to CYA, is to transfer your funds from Ascensus using their current process of terminating the employee and having a check sent?

[GoldenBear17]

I merged GoldenBear17's post and ensuing discussion into this thread.

I think that post and the replies actually made more sense in the thread they were in at viewtopic.php?t=396662

The reason is that the question of whether and how to compensate while money is out of the market during a rollover is not unique to this Ascensus situation. It's something anyone doing any rollover of any kind that requires being sent a check goes through. That's why that thread already existed long before this issue ever happened with Ascensus. And the answers to my question will be relevant to anyone in that position in the future. It's actually almost irrelevant that this happens to be coming up for me in the context of Ascensus.

Also, in this thread, my very focused questions about compensating during time out of the market are going to just get buried amongst all of the very Ascensus-specific discussion.

However I respect wherever you decide those posts belong.

[Ret2018]

Today I sent that email with a few tweaks to it to two email addresses at Ascensus. I'll list them below. I will look tomorrow for more addresses, so if you have any and would like to share them, please post. The more places that letter goes saying to NOT send us 1099s the better for ALL OF US.

customerservice@service.ascensus.com

education@ascensus.com

The migration package email "reply to" is ikservice@ascensus.com. This email also appears in some of the materials as a contact. It is also listed in the emails regarding setting up account access.

The trust agreement in the migration packet, which Ascensus assumes you assent to if you do not respond to it "timely," states:
"Any notice with respect to this Agreement sent by Employer must be in writing and must be given by either certified mail,
return receipt requested, or by overnight mail sent with a nationally recognized courier service, and must be addressed to
Ascensus at:
Ascensus, LLC
200 Dryden Road
Dresher, PA 19025
Attention: President"

In the "welcome to Ascensus" email the contact to request ACH automatic funding is:
"Regular Delivery:
Ascensus, LLC
Attn: Individual(k)
Box 599
Fort Washington, PA 19034
Overnight Delivery:
Ascensus, LLC
Attn: Individual(k)
575 Pinetown Rd Unit 599
Fort Washington, PA 19034
Fax or Email:
Fax: 218-855-6010
Email:
requests@ascensus.com"

[Ret2018]

Can this attorney tell you who it would be that would implement the penalty on Ascensus for issuing the 1099?

From the Federal Registrar it appears that courts impose the penalty in response to civil action for damages:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USC ... ec7434.pdf

[dougger5]

Adding insult to injury, DW and I received an email "informing you of updates to your financial benefits." Essentially we've dropped out of Flagship on account of them moving our SIMPLE IRAs out. Not that it makes much practical difference, but...boo.

We're W2 employees. Her SIMPLE was from a previous employer and my employer may move to a 401(k) for 2025. So I imagine we'll just hold course until January at the earliest.

[keyfort]

I spoke to an attorney who specializes in I-401Ks. If you would like his name and contact info, DM me.

Below is his advice. I asked if I could share what he told me with other small biz owners and he said yes.

Remember, this advice was for me and my situation. I am using MySolo401K who restated my plan documents and set up a trust for me for my plan. I am moving my assets to Schwab. So, I make no guarantee if the attorney's advice fits your situation or not. I suggest calling him (or a different attorney) to get your own advice. Phone calls are not particularly expensive, his was $125 for the call and I believe it was a good investment in my wellbeing. It's better to spend a little now to protect yourself down the road. This guy was excellent, very clear, down to earth and generous with his time/knowledge.

Here's what he told me during our phone consultation:

1. The instructions that MySolo401K lists on their website to exit Ascensus looks like they will work, so it's okay to go ahead and follow them. However, he was angry that Ascensus is making us do this in a way that is "stupid and complicated" and that opens us up to risks we shouldn't have to take.

2. Ascensus is not allowed to terminate our I-401K plan, only the owners of the plan can do that with a termination agreement document and the 5500 EZ.

3. This is NOT a rollover, it is an internal transfer (meaning within the plan) of the money to a new custodian.

4. Because there is no rollover, there should be no "distributions" and no 1099 issued. Ascensus is not allowed to send a 1099 and there is a penalty for them for doing so.

5. If they send a 1099-R anyway, as long as it is labeled not taxable, we will be okay. But...

6. If they screw up the 1099-R and label it as a taxable event, we WILL hear from the IRS (he called it a "love letter" ) saying we owe them. No matter what documentation we have and send back to the IRA, it will go unanswered and it will be a two year-ish process to clear our name which will include setting a date for a review court (sorry I don't remember the name of where we fight it, I was writing quickly). But as long as we have all the documentation it will be dismissed and we won't owe anything. But it's a 2 year long headache going through the process.

7. We need to write a letter/email and send it to Ascensus every way possible (to as many email addresses as we can find) saying that we are NOT terminating our plan, this is NOT a rollover and Ascensus is NOT to send a 1099.

8. He drafted the language for me to use in the above letter/email to Ascensus. He said I was free to pass this language on to other small biz owners who are also leaving Ascensus and restating but not closing their plans in the hope that if enough of us send it, perhaps Ascensus will listen and not send the 1099s.

After the call, he sent me an email recapping our conversation. Here it is:

Hi XXX,

Here’s a link to the tax code section I was talking about. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7434

To reiterate what I said on the phone, ignore what I said about 1040 and 5500ez reporting. Those only apply if a 1099 is issued. However 1099s are only issued if assets leave the plan. In this case if you are keeping the plan but merely restating it, no assets are leaving the plan and thus no 1099 is necessary. If they do issue you a 1099, give me another call and we can talk about the ways to mitigate the problems caused by it.

A sample email you should send to Ascensus would be something like:

Friends, in trying to move my 401k plans assets to a new provider I see the choices presented by your automated system require me to say I am terminating employees and doing a rollover of assets.

However I am not terminating any employee from my plan. Nor are any assets being moved out of the plan. Rather the plan is staying in existence, being restated, and the assets are being moved to a different investment provider. There will be no distributions.

Thus it is important to me that you do not issue a 1099 of any sort. I do not want the burden of telling the IRS that no assets were distributed and thus no 1099 was required. To that end please be aware of 26 U.S.C. 7434 that allows for damages if you willfully file a fraudulent 1099.

[Only put this part in if you still have your agreement with vanguard and it is true. I attached a copy of the relevant language] Furthermore my agreement with Vanguard said that they would do no tax reporting, rather all reporting was to be done by the trustees of the plan, me.

If you should have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Incredible information and thank you from me as well. Incredible in the sense that I literally cannot believe we are dealing with this company for our solo 401k plans.

I wonder if there is a way to easily terminate the plan and rollover to an IRA at another institution. I would be willing to forgo one year of solo 401k until I can open a new one just to get away from Ascensus. I wish I could go back and have done this before it left Vanguard.

Does anyone know the process to completely terminate the plan with Ascensus?

1. Send notice terminating plan to Ascensus?
2. Request rollover to IRA checks for traditional and Roth?
3. File final 5500-EZ?

Honestly, I'll never forgive Vanguard for tossing us in the trash like this.

[keyfort]

Here is an update on my nearly hour long phone call with Ascensus today:
1) There were mistakes in the identifying information in my migration package recordkeeping service and trust agreements. The Ascensus rep sent me a secure link to amend the Plan. I told the rep I did not want to amend the Plan; I wanted the agreements to have the correct identifying information. This did not get resolved today.

2) There is a sentence in section 3.01 of the recordkeeping service agreement (migration package pdf pg. 4) regarding fees that does not make any sense. It states, "In addition, upon written notice and on no more than an annual basis, Ascensus may raise the base fee as set forth in Schedule B by the greater of the Consumer Price Index or 2 Annual Service fees are payable annually." The rep consulted with someone, but was unable to clarify the intent of this language. This did not get resolved today.

3) The effective date of both the recordkeeping service and trust agreements is 12/31/2024. The rep confirmed that the agreements in the migration package do not become effective until midnight on 12/31/2024. The rep explained that this was to allow people to move plans, and so that no fees would be charged in 2024. The rep added that fees would not charged until the beginning of the third quarter of next year.
a) Schedule B (Fees) in the migration package states that the trust and record keeping fees are charged in the fourth quarter, and that only the full account liquidation fees are waived for the 2024 calendar year. This apprent contradiction in information did not get resolved today.
b) I asked the rep if the agreements in the migration package are not effective until midnight 12/31/2024, what agreements govern the current contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus? The rep consulted with someone, then referred me to the prototype plan document. That document does not govern the contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus. When I pointed this out, the rep consulted with someone else, and responded that current agreements are being sent out "in a month or so." The rep confirmed that the rep was unable to identify agreements that govern the current contractual relationship between my plan and Ascensus. At that point, the rep stated they were referring my questions to the legal department for resolution. I requested that the response be sent to me via email. This did not get resolved today.

4) During the course of the conversation, I discovered that I was never sent a "welcome" email with six attachments. Those documents include
-Ascensus Basic Plan (what appears to be the Ascensus prototype plan)
-digital capabilities guide
-rollover instructions
-manually enter contributions instructions
-IRS opinion letter dated 9/21/2020 for the Vanguard plan
-Auto ACH funding form.
If you did not receive this email you should call Ascensus at 833-688-0086 to request it.

The rep really tried to help, but just did not seem to have a sufficient knowledge base. After the call, I emailed Ascensus with a statement that I did not give my assent, deemed or otherwise, to the agreements until these issues were resolved. Will see what the response is, and if/when I hear from Ascensus' legal department.

Outrageous from Ascensus. Did ANYONE here receive a welcome email with these six attachments? I certainly didn't.

[srt]

Outrageous from Ascensus. Did ANYONE here receive a welcome email with these six attachments? I certainly didn't.

I did not.

Received three emails, all on July 23, 2024, from Ascensus

1. instructions on activating online access
2. Instructions on signing in to employer-specific website
3. Instructions on signing in to employee-specific website

Speaking of notifications, received a total of two notifications from Vanguard prior to i401(K) being moved to Ascensus:

1. Received one letter via snail mail in April, 2024
2. Received one email on July 8th (Monday), stating in part:
   1. "July 12, 2024: The last day for plan sponsors to choose a different provider and participants to ensure all Vanguard accounts are at a zero balance if opting out of the transfer."

Thanks to all for the time and energy put into figuring this out and the sharing of information and experiences.

Kudos, and much appreciation, to the moderators for the consistently amazing job in moderating this forum.

[Ret2018]

Does anyone know the process to completely terminate the plan with Ascensus?

1. Send notice terminating plan to Ascensus?
2. Request rollover to IRA checks for traditional and Roth?
3. File final 5500-EZ?

From the migration package trust agreement:
"8.02 Termination of the Plan
Although the trust is hereby declared to be irrevocable, the Employer may partially or completely terminate the Plan at any time
and shall give the Trustee written notice thereof. The Trustee shall thereafter liquidate and distribute the trust’s assets pursuant
to the directions of the Plan Administrator as communicated to the Trustee by the Recordkeeper."

The statement that the trust is irrevocable is troubling, and seems to be in contradiction to this in the trust agreement:
"7.01 Resignation and Removal
The Trustee may resign at any time after providing at least 60 days’ written notice to the Employer. The Employer may remove
the Trustee at any time after providing at least 60 days’ written notice to the Trustee.
7.02 Successor Trustee
(a) Upon resignation or removal of the Trustee, the Employer shall promptly appoint a successor trustee and promptly notify the
Trustee of that appointment. If Employer fails to promptly appoint a successor trustee and promptly notify the Trustee of that
appointment, the Trustee may (i) appoint a successor, who shall be subject to the reasonable approval of the Employer, or
(ii) deem the Employer to be the successor. The successor trustee shall have all of the powers and duties conferred on the
Trustee in this Agreement. The Trustee shall not cease to be the Trustee until the successor trustee assumes the
appointment or 10 days have elapsed since its specified date of resignation, whichever occurs first.
(b) The Trustee shall deliver to the successor trustee all assets and property of the Fund, either in-kind or as proceeds after
liquidation, as determined by the Recordkeeper together with all records needed by the successor trustee to administer the
trust properly. The Trustee is authorized, however, to reserve such amount as may be necessary for the payment of its
expenses as described in Article VI incurred prior to its transfer of trust assets and records to the successor trustee to the
extent not inconsistent with federal law.
(c) The Trustee shall execute, acknowledge, and deliver all documents and written instruments which are necessary to transfer
the right, title, and interest in the trust assets, and all related rights and privileges, to the successor trustee.
(d) Upon receipt of the assets of the trust, the successor trustee shall become a successor party to this Agreement, unless a
successor trust agreement has been substituted for this Agreement."

If you'e decided to terminate the Plan (not just the trust), have you considered declining to sign the migration package and see what Ascensus does? At that point, would the ball be in Ascensus' court to terminate the trust agreement (without terminating the Plan)?

[keyfort]

Does anyone know the process to completely terminate the plan with Ascensus?

1. Send notice terminating plan to Ascensus?
2. Request rollover to IRA checks for traditional and Roth?
3. File final 5500-EZ?

From the migration package trust agreement:
"8.02 Termination of the Plan
Although the trust is hereby declared to be irrevocable, the Employer may partially or completely terminate the Plan at any time
and shall give the Trustee written notice thereof. The Trustee shall thereafter liquidate and distribute the trust’s assets pursuant
to the directions of the Plan Administrator as communicated to the Trustee by the Recordkeeper."

The statement that the trust is irrevocable is troubling, and seems to be in contradiction to this in the trust agreement:
"7.01 Resignation and Removal
The Trustee may resign at any time after providing at least 60 days’ written notice to the Employer. The Employer may remove
the Trustee at any time after providing at least 60 days’ written notice to the Trustee.
7.02 Successor Trustee
(a) Upon resignation or removal of the Trustee, the Employer shall promptly appoint a successor trustee and promptly notify the
Trustee of that appointment. If Employer fails to promptly appoint a successor trustee and promptly notify the Trustee of that
appointment, the Trustee may (i) appoint a successor, who shall be subject to the reasonable approval of the Employer, or
(ii) deem the Employer to be the successor. The successor trustee shall have all of the powers and duties conferred on the
Trustee in this Agreement. The Trustee shall not cease to be the Trustee until the successor trustee assumes the
appointment or 10 days have elapsed since its specified date of resignation, whichever occurs first.
(b) The Trustee shall deliver to the successor trustee all assets and property of the Fund, either in-kind or as proceeds after
liquidation, as determined by the Recordkeeper together with all records needed by the successor trustee to administer the
trust properly. The Trustee is authorized, however, to reserve such amount as may be necessary for the payment of its
expenses as described in Article VI incurred prior to its transfer of trust assets and records to the successor trustee to the
extent not inconsistent with federal law.
(c) The Trustee shall execute, acknowledge, and deliver all documents and written instruments which are necessary to transfer
the right, title, and interest in the trust assets, and all related rights and privileges, to the successor trustee.
(d) Upon receipt of the assets of the trust, the successor trustee shall become a successor party to this Agreement, unless a
successor trust agreement has been substituted for this Agreement."

If you'e decided to terminate the Plan (not just the trust), have you considered declining to sign the migration package and see what Ascensus does? At that point, would the ball be in Ascensus' court to terminate the trust agreement (without terminating the Plan)?

Thank you for that. And you ask a good question. I noticed that if I don't sign and don't say anything, Ascensus says I will have deemed to have consented and signed etc.

But if I write and say I don't consent, won't sign, and want the plan terminated, maybe they will have to terminate my plan. The reason I'm hesitant to do this is I feel that anything which is off the beaten path (whatever that is with Ascensus) is likely to cause major headaches. I was thinking of waiting till things calm down, and then terminate the plan. Also, based on the reports from other posters of their interactions with phone agents, I have zero confidence in a phone call being of use. It might even be harmful.

[Ret2018]

But if I write and say I don't consent, won't sign, and want the plan terminated, maybe they will have to terminate my plan. The reason I'm hesitant to do this is I feel that anything which is off the beaten path (whatever that is with Ascensus) is likely to cause major headaches. I was thinking of waiting till things calm down, and then terminate the plan. Also, based on the reports from other posters of their interactions with phone agents, I have zero confidence in a phone call being of use. It might even be harmful.

I think you are correct about not relying on phone conversations. I'm guessing that important communications should be done in writing delivered with tracking.

Not legal advice, which I cannot give, but I am wondering what would happen if one were to decline to sign (an option in docusign under "other actions (options?)." I think at that point it would be up to Ascensus to decide if they are going to terminate the trust agreement (vs. terminating the plan).

[srt]

Not legal advice, which I cannot give, but I am wondering what would happen if one were to decline to sign (an option in docusign under "other actions (options?)." I think at that point it would be up to Ascensus to decide if they are going to terminate the trust agreement (vs. terminating the plan).

When asked that specific question last week, the answer was that the plan sponsor would have to terminate the plan with Ascensus and move to another "trust"(?).

Also, Ascensus says that we have until 12/31/24 to sign and submit those (Docusign) documents.

[Ret2018]

Not legal advice, which I cannot give, but I am wondering what would happen if one were to decline to sign (an option in docusign under "other actions (options?)." I think at that point it would be up to Ascensus to decide if they are going to terminate the trust agreement (vs. terminating the plan).

When asked that specific question last week, the answer was that the plan sponsor would have to terminate the plan with Ascensus and move to another "trust"(?).

Also, Ascensus says that we have until 12/31/24 to sign and submit those (Docusign) documents.

1) Ascensus cannot "make" the plan sponsor terminate the Plan. Ascensus can, with 60 days notice to the sponsor, terminate the recordkeeping and trust agreements.

2) 12/31/24 is the effective date of the agreements, not the date by which we must sign. I'm pretty certain that Ascensus has stated in a number a places, and I know to me on the phone, that in the absence of "timely" communication from the plan sponsor, Ascensus will deem assent to the recordkeeping and trust agreements.

3) With an effective date of 12/31/24, what agreements are governing our current contractual relationship with Ascensus? I've posed this question on the phone, in an email, and in a letter sent via tracked delivery. I have not yet gotten a response from Ascensus.

[newbiefinance101]

Just signed up for this forum after reading all these posts. I've been having this issue for weeks with Ascensus having the wrong forms to make a transfer to Fidelity, such as terminating yourself as an employee and asking for a termination distribution.

FINALLY, Ascensus today has a NEW FORM that is much better. Here is what it says:

Individual(k) Featuring Vanguard Investments
Plan Transfer/New Investment Provider and New Recordkeeper
Deconversion Form

"This form should be used if you, as Plan Administrator or Plan Trustee, intend to terminate the Recordkeeping Service Agreement between you and Ascensus, LLC. The plan is NOT TERMINATING but is TRANFERRING to a new investment provider and recordkeeper. Assets will be sent via check to your New Investment Provider. No electronic transfer of assets is available. Provide instruction as to your New Investment Provider."

It then asks you to fill out the form and email it back. When you call Ascensus, ask for this form to be emailed to you.

Hope this helps others!

[srt]

FINALLY, Ascensus today has a NEW FORM that is much better.

Great news; thanks for sharing, newbiefinance101!

It looks like this form fulfills what we have been asking for.

Thanks again to everyone for pushing on Ascensus to do better.

[GoldenBear17]

Just signed up for this forum after reading all these posts. I've been having this issue for weeks with Ascensus having the wrong forms to make a transfer to Fidelity, such as terminating yourself as an employee and asking for a termination distribution.

FINALLY, Ascensus today has a NEW FORM that is much better. Here is what it says:

Individual(k) Featuring Vanguard Investments
Plan Transfer/New Investment Provider and New Recordkeeper
Deconversion Form

"This form should be used if you, as Plan Administrator or Plan Trustee, intend to terminate the Recordkeeping Service Agreement between you and Ascensus, LLC. The plan is NOT TERMINATING but is TRANFERRING to a new investment provider and recordkeeper. Assets will be sent via check to your New Investment Provider. No electronic transfer of assets is available. Provide instruction as to your New Investment Provider."

It then asks you to fill out the form and email it back. When you call Ascensus, ask for this form to be emailed to you.

Hope this helps others!

Dare i believe this is true? Is this form really available?

How do we get this form? Is it available in the Employer or Employee portal? Or is the only way to get it to call and ask them to email it?

I'm excited about the form. But to be honest, I'd be very nervous having Ascensus liquidate the assets and send them directly to the new provider rather than sending me the check so I can make absolutely sure it gets to the new provider. Is there still an option to have the check sent to us?

[newbiefinance101]

Dare i believe this is true? Is this form really available?

How do we get this form? Is it available in the Employer or Employee portal? Or is the only way to get it to call and ask them to email it?

I'm excited about the form. But to be honest, I'd be very nervous having Ascensus liquidate the assets and send them directly to the new provider rather than sending me the check so I can make absolutely sure it gets to the new provider. Is there still an option to have the check sent to us?

All I did was call the number and told the agent I wanted a form to transfer the money to a new account at Fidelity and she sent me this form via email. It's not online as of yesterday when I looked. She said the form literally came out yesterday morning.

As for mailing the check direct....I'm not 100% sure if it's mailed directly to Fidelity or to me (with the check written out to Fidelity FBO me). All it says is "Assets will be sent via check to your new investment provider". A literal translation of that would be it's sent directly to Fidelity. There is an option to choose regular mail, Overnight, FedEx, etc. So if you were concerned about tracking it, I would choose something with tracking. Ask the agent how that works, because the form is a little unclear on how to pay for expedited mailing. Regardless, the wording on this form is WAY better should there any issues down the road.

I'm still in limbo a little. Fidelity asked me to send them this new form, a copy of my statement, and their TOA paperwork. The agent implied that they would handle everything from there on my behalf, but I'm waiting for a confirmation on that.

[Babelon]

Dare i believe this is true? Is this form really available?

It is. I just called their "customer service" number and the agent I spoke with emailed it to me. The wording on the form sounds exactly like transferring the plan to another trustee.

[Ydenawa]

I just finished transferring to fidelity. I followed this website guide useful. I did not have to fill out a toa form like some customer service reps at fidelity mentioned.

https://www.mysolo401k.net/how-to-trans ... -ascensus/

1st step was making an self employed account at fidelity.( I have other accounts there). Ironically the forms at fidelity took longer ( for the transfer and forming an account ) because it had to be wet ink and had to be uploaded than Ascensus. Ascensus was just a bunch of clicks on their website. They mailed a check to me in 1 business day ( I paid 30 bucks ) and dropped it off at fidelity.

[ReluctantAccountant]

Dare i believe this is true? Is this form really available?

It is. I just called their "customer service" number and the agent I spoke with emailed it to me. The wording on the form sounds exactly like transferring the plan to another trustee.

I also received a copy of the "Plan Transfer" form today, but I had to make a fuss to get it. The first person I spoke with today told me that transfers aren't an option with Ascensus, but eventually someone high up got in touch with me and emailed me the form. I guess all of our phone calls and complaints are going somewhere!

The form states that "the plan is not terminating but is transferring to a new investment provider and recordkeeper," which sounds better than the other forms they've sent. It also says assets will be sent via check to your new provider.

If you call Ascensus, the form ID appears to be 10539-IK FVGI (Rev. 9/2024). Since it's brand new, I'll wager that many agents don't know about its existence. If I were more technically inclined, I'd upload the form to the web, but someone smarter than I am will have to do that.

[dj3312]

[Merged into here - moderator Kendall]

Has anyone done this? how much of a pain is it?

Is there a recommended place go transfer to? (Fidelity or Schwab?)

[BogleTaxPro]

Has anyone done this? how much of a pain is it?

Is there a recommended place go transfer to? (Fidelity or Schwab?)

There are a number of threads already on this, and it's not an easy question to answer.
search.php?keywords=ascensus&terms=all& ... mit=Search

[WoodSprite]

I decided against paying for the expedited because it gets sent the same way (no tracking number, etc) just faster.

Yes, you do get UPS tracking. Mine is being sent as I type and I've been able to track it every step of the way. And its overnight.

[dj3312]

I called Fidelity about transferring from Ascensus to them, is rollover IRA best option? seems like it would be easiest.

Also, would I be able to just transfer into a rollover IRA at vanguard? Or no?

[GoldenBear17]

Is anyone planning to or in the process of transferring using Ascensus' new transfer form? If anyone does, please post about your experience and if it works.

Also can someone explain on the form under the overnight service, it asks for FedEx or UPS and then asks for a 9 digit number for FedEx or 6 digit number along with "your five-digit zip code" for UPS. What is that 9 and 6 digit number it's asking for? Supposedly it's "Your company's overnight mailing information". But how is that just a 9 or 6 digit number? And whose zip code for UPS? Our zip code? Or the zip code of the company the check is being sent to?

[catnap4209]

Good morning - new member here. I contacted Ascensus last night and they emailed me the transfer form. I'd like to attach it here for others to use but I don't see the usual paperclip icon for attaching things to a post. If someone can educate me on how to post a PDF document for others to use I will do so.

My plan is to visit my local Schwab office today. I've already filled out their paperwork. I will need their input on where the check needs to be sent so that it doesn't get lost in their labyrinth.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

Thanks for all the good info that everyone here has provided.