Home Heating System - What Would You Do?

[fishmonger]

So we have an old, but functioning cast iron boiler at our house in the Northeast (New Hampshire). Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency.

I plan to limp this along for (hopefully) a few more years, but I'm curious when it does go, what other viable options are rather than just replacing it with a newer, more efficient boiler, which I assume will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-8K. I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

House is 2 stories with a partially finished basement, roughly 3500 sqft
Baseboard heat
Consume somewhere between 1100-1300 gallons of heating oil annually, roughly $3500-5000 depending on prices
Plan to be in this house at least 10 more years

Wondering what you all would do? I'm not up to speed on heat pumps, govt rebates, etc.

[Nowizard]

Our son and family live in an older home that has been renovated that has radiators for heating. They use them but also added Mitsubishi heaters in walls near the ceiling that vent outside. They are attractive in the sense they are unobtrusive and work well.

[beardsicles]

Depending on your electricity cost and income/eligibility for federal tax credits and rebates, I'd consider preemptively putting in a heat pump and leaving the boiler as backup if needed.

[TomatoTomahto]

We were in a similar situation in Massachusetts and additionally had AC units that were loud and close to end of life.

We converted to GSHP (Ground Sourced Heat Pump), often called geothermal, and could not be happier. We have solar panels, but even without them, it’s a clear winner for us.

There are many incentives, and rough numbers, I figure the government/utility have taken 40% of the expense. It’s a big upfront cost, but after that, it’s a low maintenance solution that keeps us warm in winter and (shamefully) cool in summer.

[jebmke]

GSHPs are getting popular even in the mid-Atlantic where temps are pretty mild. One of our neighbors put in a new one in the last couple of years and tied their pool into it so they can keep the temps from getting too warm in the middle of summer and extend the summer on each end as well.

[lthenderson]

Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency.

I plan to limp this along for (hopefully) a few more years,

Wondering what you all would do?

It depends on what you mean by "limp along". If you are referring to standard service items, I wouldn't be inclined to replace it until something major happened. If you are referring to it constantly breaking down, I would be more inclined to replace it when a good deal came along which wouldn't be at this time of the year but maybe early next summer.

[TomatoTomahto]

GSHPs are getting popular even in the mid-Atlantic where temps are pretty mild. One of our neighbors put in a new one in the last couple of years and tied their pool into it so they can keep the temps from getting too warm in the middle of summer and extend the summer on each end as well.

Since we did a retrofit, it was too complicated to include the pool, one of my few regrets. I try not to think about how silly it is to be heating the pool while cooling the house without a more direct heat transfer. The pool uses an ASHP, so at least we no longer burn propane to heat it.

[clutchied]

Huge fan of supplemental heating and cooling with mini splits.

Custom temps wherever you want it.

[MathWizard]

We replaced a function HVAC system proactively.

We had both furnace and AC installed when we bought the house 25 years ago. We didn't want to press our luck and have the furnace die in the middle of the winter.

Cost was about $15K for high efficiency (not heat pump) before
rebates/tax credits.

We have noticed that we don't need to turn down the AC as far to be comfortable. The thermostat display shows humidity, and it
looks like the new system is doing a good job of pulling down the humidity, then cooling, which improves comfort.

[Valuethinker]

So we have an old, but functioning cast iron boiler at our house in the Northeast (New Hampshire). Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency.

I plan to limp this along for (hopefully) a few more years, but I'm curious when it does go, what other viable options are rather than just replacing it with a newer, more efficient boiler, which I assume will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-8K. I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

House is 2 stories with a partially finished basement, roughly 3500 sqft
Baseboard heat
Consume somewhere between 1100-1300 gallons of heating oil annually, roughly $3500-5000 depending on prices
Plan to be in this house at least 10 more years

Wondering what you all would do? I'm not up to speed on heat pumps, govt rebates, etc.

Heat pump technology is getting better - greater ability to deal with low air temperatures. To be clear, that technology already exists but it's not widely spread in the US market but is much more so in Japan and now Europe. That's Air Source Heat Pump. And Air-to-Water HPs are widely available, but again only just entering US market. Most people prefer hot water rad/ baseboard type heating than air heating, if they try the former.

There are definitely substantial grants available for a conversion now. I don't know the US setups. One factor that may be important is that they may require disconnect & removal of any fossil fuel heating system (even as backup) -- that needs to be checked.

Ground source aka geothermal heat pump will do the job for you now *however* they are more expensive. Easier if you have a large area that you can lay a trench in for the exchange pipe as opposed to vertical boring (which can get expensive).

A potential issue is that New England electricity rates tend to be quite high? What are you paying per kwhr right now? (you want the "energy" part of your bill, there's usually fixed charges on top of that, you want the per kwhr ie variable part).

On balance I would probably wait, as the technology is moving your way. Oil prices could be anything, but perhaps likely to fluctuate (crude oil) between $50 and $150/bl. What backup do you have if the oil furnace goes out?

I wouldn't replace with a new efficient boiler. You would gain 10/80% to 15/80% improvement in energy efficiency. So say a 10-15% reduction in oil consumption which doesn't seem worth it. Eventually you don't want to have oil heat. New England housing market understands heating oil heating, but even so there are potential contamination issue etc. Also environmental reasons of course.

[beardsicles]

Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency.

I plan to limp this along for (hopefully) a few more years,

Wondering what you all would do?

It depends on what you mean by "limp along". If you are referring to standard service items, I wouldn't be inclined to replace it until something major happened. If you are referring to it constantly breaking down, I would be more inclined to replace it when a good deal came along which wouldn't be at this time of the year but maybe early next summer.

The problem with this approach is it doesn't work if you want to change fuel types. If your boiler fails in the middle of the winter, you're putting in a new boiler whether you wanted a heat pump or not. HVAC system transitions really require you to be planful and do it proactively, likely when you have a functioning (but hopefully aging) system.

[TomatoTomahto]

There are definitely substantial grants available for a conversion now. I don't know the US setups. One factor that may be important is that they may require disconnect & removal of any fossil fuel heating system (even as backup) -- that needs to be checked.

Ground source aka geothermal heat pump will do the job for you now *however* they are more expensive. Easier if you have a large area that you can lay a trench in for the exchange pipe as opposed to vertical boring (which can get expensive).

Our installer wasn’t willing to do our GSHP job if we didn’t remove the oil burner; whether for the space it freed up or incentives, I don’t know.

GSHP are more expensive to install, but much cheaper to run. Think of it as, would you rather extract heat out of 50-70 degree sludge or 10 degree air? How about getting cold “out of” 50-70 degree sludge or 90 degree air? Also, and this is often overlooked, our GSHP devices are inside conditioned space, not out in the elements, which will extend their life. And, how sweet to sit outside in the summer with no condenser noise.

I doubt OP’s NH site will be reasonable to do a horizontal trench in, as it wasn’t in our MA location. Vertical drilling is costly but not prohibitively so.

[Valuethinker]

There are definitely substantial grants available for a conversion now. I don't know the US setups. One factor that may be important is that they may require disconnect & removal of any fossil fuel heating system (even as backup) -- that needs to be checked.

Ground source aka geothermal heat pump will do the job for you now *however* they are more expensive. Easier if you have a large area that you can lay a trench in for the exchange pipe as opposed to vertical boring (which can get expensive).

Our installer wasn’t willing to do our GSHP job if we didn’t remove the oil burner; whether for the space it freed up or incentives, I don’t know.

GSHP are more expensive to install, but much cheaper to run. Think of it as, would you rather extract heat out of 50-70 degree sludge or 10 degree air? How about getting cold “out of” 50-70 degree sludge or 90 degree air? Also, and this is often overlooked, our GSHP devices are inside conditioned space, not out in the elements, which will extend their life. And, how sweet to sit outside in the summer with no condenser noise.

I doubt OP’s NH site will be reasonable to do a horizontal trench in, as it wasn’t in our MA location. Vertical drilling is costly but not prohibitively so.

I am glad you like yours. A relation installed a GSHP on their farm in Central Ontario (similar-ish sort of climate I would imagine, a bit colder in winter) in the 1990s and was very happy with it (using a trench). They also had a big wood fire though. Sad to move into town and have to go to gas heating.

The best performing ASHPs have really moved up though. Operating at event quite low air temperatures (10 degrees F sort of thing). So they are definitely more fit for purpose.

[TomatoTomahto]

.The best performing ASHPs have really moved up though. Operating at event quite low air temperatures (10 degrees F sort of thing). So they are definitely more fit for purpose.

Yes, I have two newer high performing ASHPs (one heats my pool and the other heats and cools the office/gym over our detached garage). The one that heats the office/gym keeps up with the coldest days just fine, but it has to be said that I don’t expect it to be alive as long as my GSHP.

[THY4373]

And, how sweet to sit outside in the summer with no condenser noise.

My Mitsubishi ASHP are inaudible from more than a couple of feet away. Alas the same cannot be said for some of my neighbors' units.

[TomatoTomahto]

And, how sweet to sit outside in the summer with no condenser noise.

My Mitsubishi ASHP are inaudible from more than a couple of feet away. Alas the same cannot be said for some of my neighbors' units.

I probably should have been more clear that I was comparing GSHP noise to our old air conditioning condensers, which were very loud and becoming more so. Our ASHP was situated so that its sound, mostly just white noise fan noise and not very loud even close by, is blocked by the pump house wall.

[snic]

So we have an old, but functioning cast iron boiler at our house in the Northeast (New Hampshire). Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency.

I plan to limp this along for (hopefully) a few more years, but I'm curious when it does go, what other viable options are rather than just replacing it with a newer, more efficient boiler, which I assume will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-8K. I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

House is 2 stories with a partially finished basement, roughly 3500 sqft
Baseboard heat
Consume somewhere between 1100-1300 gallons of heating oil annually, roughly $3500-5000 depending on prices
Plan to be in this house at least 10 more years

Wondering what you all would do? I'm not up to speed on heat pumps, govt rebates, etc.

Boilers tend to last a long time, and if you are maintaining the system regularly, the other components will also last quite a while. Boiler systems are just so simple - they consist of just the boiler tank (cast iron, will last forever), the burners (easily replaceable) and recirculation pumps (also easily replaceable). Add in a few sensors, the pipes (they might leak, but that's rare) and the thermostat, and it's all pretty modular. Furnaces are slightly more complicated (more fans and whatnot), and central A/Cs are a LOT more complex because of the exterior condenser etc.

What I would do is precisely nothing - for now. Air- and geo-source heat pumps are becoming all the rage, due to greater efficiency and government incentives. I'd just sit tight for a few years and wait for the technology to improve and become less expensive.

You don't mention whether you also have central A/C. If you do, replacing it with a air- or ground-source heat pumps would be relatively easy, and then you have heat as well. So the logical time to do that is when you need to replace the central A/C because some component goes bad that costs thousands to fix.

[jebmke]

Boilers tend to last a long time, and if you are maintaining the system regularly, the other components will also last quite a while. Boiler systems are just so simple - they consist of just the boiler tank (cast iron, will last forever)

Yes; in the 90s we had an old steam system that dated back to the 20s, worked fine. Oil burner cleaned annually. Cast iron will last a very long time if someone doesn't crack it or it doesn't blow up. My employer in the 1980s made burner controls and we retrofit a lot of very old boilers with new safety controls over the years.

[RetiredAL]

I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

I would be more concerned of the oil tank. A leak will get expensive quickly if a cleanup is required. If it's outside underground, you may not discover it's leaking until a large amount has leaked.

[talzara]

So we have an old, but functioning cast iron boiler at our house in the Northeast (New Hampshire). Gets serviced every year and still hits 80% or so efficiency. ...

Wondering what you all would do? I'm not up to speed on heat pumps, govt rebates, etc.

Do you have air conditioning? Is it ducted?

It's much easier to install a heat pump if you have ducts. Otherwise, a 3,500 sqft house will need a lot of mini-split heads.

[OldTucker]

I strongly recommend keeping the cast iron boiler if it's a "wet base" type. You can verify this without tools. If the drain cock (where a garden hose can be connected) is located below the burner then it's a keeper. It'll last forever unless the water inside freezes or unless it' dry fired (not full of water). Since both of these scenario's are highly unlikely don't waste your time worrying about a catastrophic boiler failure. It isn't going to happen.
Looking out at your next 10 yrs in that house however, you can't rule out a component failures here and there. As someone mentioned above, your oil storage tank for instance, or a circulator pump motor, or an aquastat control, bla bla, service calls to correct issues if and when they occur. My main point is that, in the case of wet base boilers, you don't need to worry about a catastrophic failure.

[THY4373]

I probably should have been more clear that I was comparing GSHP noise to our old air conditioning condensers, which were very loud and becoming more so. Our ASHP was situated so that its sound, mostly just white noise fan noise and not very loud even close by, is blocked by the pump house wall.

Oh that I totally understand. My old downstairs unit was clearly audible through much of the house when running (it was near several large windows). Noise reduction was one of the primary reasons I went with a Japanese inverter unit over more traditional US made AC/heat pumps.

[fishmonger]

OP here, thanks for the responses. To answer a few follow ups:

- By "limping along" I don't mean we are constantly putting money into maintenance/repairs. We had to replace a circulator once, but other than that in the 8 years we've lived here it's just been our annual cleaning of $150 or so
- We do NOT have central A/C, but we do have central vacuum (that doesn't get used very often). In the future is there an opportunity to use any of that for Central Air?

[talzara]

- We do NOT have central A/C, but we do have central vacuum (that doesn't get used very often). In the future is there an opportunity to use any of that for Central Air?

Central vacuum pipes are usually 2" in diameter, which is too small for conventional ducted HVAC. They are big enough for high-velocity HVAC, but you can't use them for high-velocity because they're uninsulated. High-velocity systems are designed to be used with their own 2" insulated ducts.

To add air conditioning to a New England house, the usual solutions are: install ducts, install mini-splits, and install high-velocity ducts. Many New Englanders also make do with window air conditioners and through-the-wall air conditioners. The high-end window units are actually designed like mini-splits, so they're very quiet and efficient.

[ScubaHogg]

Are you game for ripping up your flooring? If you don’t need AC this would make for a very comfortable house

https://www.warmboard.com/

I fantasize about it, but can’t justify the cost

[LotsaGray]

So AC ducts, and no central vac won’t work, just stay with boiler. Last nearly forever, very consistent heat, prolly don’t have or need separate water heater. And even though air sourced hp are much improved they are not as good as boiler even if cheaper to run. Ground sourced are great but wo duct $$$$ to convert.

[Fat Tails]

Huge fan of supplemental heating and cooling with mini splits.

Custom temps wherever you want it.

Me too, did two DIY minisplits. Really improved our comfort level

[Valuethinker]

I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

I would be more concerned of the oil tank. A leak will get expensive quickly if a cleanup is required. If it's outside underground, you may not discover it's leaking until a large amount has leaked.

If the Original Poster has an underground oil tank, they should address this now?

An investigation will be required before sale. In fact, I am amazed the insurance company has not flagged this up (if they are aware)-- would they even insure? No one is going to buy that house without certainty of there being no underground leak? - that is my understanding.

So OP might as well do it now (or probably in the spring, unless it can be done quickly). Because it will have to be replaced with an aboveground structure. I am not even sure a double-walled underground tank would pass muster, now.

[Valuethinker]

- We do NOT have central A/C, but we do have central vacuum (that doesn't get used very often). In the future is there an opportunity to use any of that for Central Air?

Central vacuum pipes are usually 2" in diameter, which is too small for conventional ducted HVAC. They are big enough for high-velocity HVAC, but you can't use them for high-velocity because they're uninsulated. High-velocity systems are designed to be used with their own 2" insulated ducts.

To add air conditioning to a New England house, the usual solutions are: install ducts, install mini-splits, and install high-velocity ducts. Many New Englanders also make do with window air conditioners and through-the-wall air conditioners. The high-end window units are actually designed like mini-splits, so they're very quiet and efficient.

My parents have the mini-ducts. They work well. 1920s house, not airtight in any way. (Hot water rads system for heating)

[fishmonger]

I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

I would be more concerned of the oil tank. A leak will get expensive quickly if a cleanup is required. If it's outside underground, you may not discover it's leaking until a large amount has leaked.

If the Original Poster has an underground oil tank, they should address this now?

An investigation will be required before sale. In fact, I am amazed the insurance company has not flagged this up (if they are aware)-- would they even insure? No one is going to buy that house without certainty of there being no underground leak? - that is my understanding.

So OP might as well do it now (or probably in the spring, unless it can be done quickly). Because it will have to be replaced with an aboveground structure. I am not even sure a double-walled underground tank would pass muster, now.

Tank is not underground, honestly never heard of that for a residential dwelling

[TomatoTomahto]

Tank is not underground, honestly never heard of that for a residential dwelling

We had that in a home in NJ; it was a condition of purchase that it be removed.

[Valuethinker]

I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

I would be more concerned of the oil tank. A leak will get expensive quickly if a cleanup is required. If it's outside underground, you may not discover it's leaking until a large amount has leaked.

If the Original Poster has an underground oil tank, they should address this now?

An investigation will be required before sale. In fact, I am amazed the insurance company has not flagged this up (if they are aware)-- would they even insure? No one is going to buy that house without certainty of there being no underground leak? - that is my understanding.

So OP might as well do it now (or probably in the spring, unless it can be done quickly). Because it will have to be replaced with an aboveground structure. I am not even sure a double-walled underground tank would pass muster, now.

Tank is not underground, honestly never heard of that for a residential dwelling

Old houses. No one would do it now because of changes in regulations (and the contamination risk). But they are around, I gather.

Although I favour moving off fossil-fuel fired heating systems, your current situation seems stable. If you are going to replace the time to do it is next summer, when the contractors may be less busy. "cross your fingers and pray" on a fuel oil storage tank worries me as a strategy - but I can understand why someone would do it, given that a future heating system might not use oil at all.

The new heat pump technologies - already in wide use in Europe and Japan - seem to be coming into the market in the USA. Air to Water HPs. High temperature Air Source Heat Pumps. However finding contractors who understand them and install them correctly seems to be a challenge.

[TheGreyingDuke]

The new heat pump technologies - already in wide use in Europe and Japan - seem to be coming into the market in the USA. Air to Water HPs. High temperature Air Source Heat Pumps. However finding contractors who understand them and install them correctly seems to be a challenge.

To expand a bit...

The phase out of R410a and its replacement with R32 is coming; the Green house gas impact of R32 is about a third of the R410a (and you need much less of it). R 4110a will still be available for re-filling but I think the R32 is the better bet.
https://www.superradiatorcoils.com/blog ... oromethane

As to the installers, a key factor in consumer satisfaction. I have watched a number of installers come in to evaluate and specify an install with wildly different approaches, some completely bogus. The large incentives have brought a lot of inexperienced tradespeople into the market. And the certifications by the hardware manufacturers has proven to be a distraction. Any successful install will require an assessment of what you need to keep warm (and cool). Manual J or a fuel use assessment is required to assure satisfaction.

[hunoraut]

You could consider electric radiant or infrared panel heaters. Flat and discreet panels that go on the wall (or basboard), or portable ones in rooms that need more precise placement.

Each unit is sized differently to support different room size with 100w,200w,600w,1000w, etc. Only need an electric plug. No oils, no fluids, no noise, no maintenance. Efficiency comes from the fact that they can be electronically controlled through wifi, so you can set smart schedules, or even integrate them in a home automation system.

Cost is typically $200 per unit, so not expensive to equip the whole house. Problem is they seem to have very little distribution in the US ?



edit: looks like Wexstar sells such things in North America, although a bit pricier than across the Atlantic

[Valuethinker]

You could consider electric radiant or infrared panel heaters. Flat and discreet panels that go on the wall (or basboard), or portable ones in rooms that need more precise placement.

Each unit is sized differently to support different room size with 100w,200w,600w,1000w, etc. Only need an electric plug. No oils, no fluids, no noise, no maintenance. Efficiency comes from the fact that they can be electronically controlled through wifi, so you can set smart schedules, or even integrate them in a home automation system.

Cost is typically $200 per unit, so not expensive to equip the whole house. Problem is they seem to have very little distribution in the US ?


edit: looks like Wexstar sells such things in North America, although a bit pricier than across the Atlantic

OP lives in New England and they tend to have brutal electricity rates (by North American standards) as well as a fairly harsh winter (not many days of 0 F/ -20C, but they do happen). Could easily be 30 cents/ kwhr vs a national average of 13.5 c/kwhr. Also North American houses are generally not well insulated (maybe this is an Anglosphere thing?).

So this would be a very expensive solution for an entire house -- if the objective was to have an evenly heated home?

(Heating oil prices around the world are quite similar, because generally heating oil doesn't pay the additional tax that motor fuel does. My gasoline price is +60-80% higher than theirs (UK v USA) but my heating oil price would be very similar).

These sorts of panel things are most appropriate for single rooms that are normally cold - such as a bedroom, or a large space with a wood fire or stove that might get cold around the edges of the space.

If OP is getting rid of oil heat, then I would suggest an Air Source Heat Pump, now that high performance ones, suitable for the climate of Scandinavia (or New Hampshire) are becoming available. Although as per discussion above the installers are really not there yet in terms of understanding of the technology and its use.

(ASHP in North America have come out of an air conditioning ie cooling market - homes in the US South often just have ASHP and no gas hookup. So existing models and brands are not well adapted to a cold climate. Also air-to-water HPs (would go with the radiators the OP presumably has) are still quite rare. A friend in Maritime Provinces of Canada just could not find anyone to install one).

[lthenderson]

- By "limping along" I don't mean we are constantly putting money into maintenance/repairs. We had to replace a circulator once, but other than that in the 8 years we've lived here it's just been our annual cleaning of $150 or so

With that great track record, I would wait to do anything until next summer when prices will be cheaper, schedules of HVAC installers will be less busy and it isn't so critical if it takes a few days to get accomplished. It will also give you plenty of time to decide this winter of the route you wish to take.

[hunoraut]

OP lives in New England and they tend to have brutal electricity rates (by North American standards) as well as a fairly harsh winter (not many days of 0 F/ -20C, but they do happen). Could easily be 30 cents/ kwhr vs a national average of 13.5 c/kwhr. Also North American houses are generally not well insulated (maybe this is an Anglosphere thing?).
...
So this would be a very expensive solution for an entire house -- if the objective was to have an evenly heated home?
...
These sorts of panel things are most appropriate for single rooms that are normally cold - such as a bedroom, or a large space with a wood fire or stove that might get cold around the edges of the space.

I'm thinking if OP is planning to limp along for a while, this is a good complimentary solution to their existing heating with its modularity and no need for any housework. It can also be transitional depending on the economics of the existing oil solution.

Heat pumps seem like a clear solution long term. I can also add that floor heating is a great luxury . We have electric cable in one location and water-based in another (heated by common natural gas boiler). No idea on comparative cost efficiency but they certainly feel nice.

[ScubaHogg]

I can also add that floor heating is a great luxury .

If I didn’t need AC I’d install radiant floor heating yesterday

If I ever stumble across a lot more money than I think I’ll ever have I’ll install it right away

[OldTucker]

A question to heat pump owners. At what outdoor temperature does your system automatically turn your heat pump "off" and your emergency heat "on"? I forget now, but some years ago, the changeover was said to happen at outdoor temperatures falling to 45F and below. In those situations you were using your emergency (backup) to heat with, ie electric, gas, oil, not the heat pump.
I'm not shooting the idea of a heat pump down, just questioning the suitability of a hp in New Hampshire, given that temps average below 45 F between what looks like a minimum of 3.5 to 4 months per year. https://weatherspark.com/countries/US/NH

[hvaclorax]

We were in a similar situation in Massachusetts and additionally had AC units that were loud and close to end of life.

We converted to GSHP (Ground Sourced Heat Pump), often called geothermal, and could not be happier. We have solar panels, but even without them, it’s a clear winner for us.

There are many incentives, and rough numbers, I figure the government/utility have taken 40% of the expense. It’s a big upfront cost, but after that, it’s a low maintenance solution that keeps us warm in winter and (shamefully) cool in summer.

TT,
Just for comparison to my own situation, what is the payback interval for GSHP? My natural gas supplier quoted an estimate installation cost of $10k or more for a gas hook up. The payback period was 18 years compared to propane.
So I wonder if payback is more favorable for GSHP. We might go that way.
Thanks

[Valuethinker]

OP lives in New England and they tend to have brutal electricity rates (by North American standards) as well as a fairly harsh winter (not many days of 0 F/ -20C, but they do happen). Could easily be 30 cents/ kwhr vs a national average of 13.5 c/kwhr. Also North American houses are generally not well insulated (maybe this is an Anglosphere thing?).
...
So this would be a very expensive solution for an entire house -- if the objective was to have an evenly heated home?
...
These sorts of panel things are most appropriate for single rooms that are normally cold - such as a bedroom, or a large space with a wood fire or stove that might get cold around the edges of the space.

I'm thinking if OP is planning to limp along for a while, this is a good complimentary solution to their existing heating with its modularity and no need for any housework. It can also be transitional depending on the economics of the existing oil solution.

Heat pumps seem like a clear solution long term. I can also add that floor heating is a great luxury . We have electric cable in one location and water-based in another (heated by common natural gas boiler). No idea on comparative cost efficiency but they certainly feel nice.

I have bathroom electric underfloor heating.

Then we went into the energy crisis. I am paying c USD 30 cents/ kwhr (and was paying 40 cents). I can use a matt -- the UFH has been turned to "off".

So the Coefficient of Performance of a gas condensing boiler (heating water) is around 0.9 ish. It says "over 90%" but in actual fact that's only true if the time running is long and steady. Standard assumption for emissions is 230g / kwhr (plus NOX etc). That ignores the cost of extracting & purifying the gas and getting it to you - if in comes by Liquified Natural Gas tanker you are losing at least another 40% (?).

The CoP of electric heating is, by definition, 1.0. However the source of that electricity then matters -- you have to look at its efficiency. If it is renewables it doesn't matter. Nuclear is c 30-35% but again it doesn't matter (uranium fuel is a relatively small cost of a nuclear reactor). Gas fired generation is c 55-60% but then you lose 7-10% in transmission and distribution. Coal would be perhaps 40%.

The way the UK prices gas and electricity, there's no cross-subsidisation. So all the "green" programmes (pretty much) are charged to electricity bills. Thus electricity per unit energy is 3-4x as expensive as gas.

[TheGreyingDuke]

A question to heat pump owners. At what outdoor temperature does your system automatically turn your heat pump "off" and your emergency heat "on"? I forget now, but some years ago, the changeover was said to happen at outdoor temperatures falling to 45F and below. In those situations you were using your emergency (backup) to heat with, ie electric, gas, oil, not the heat pump.
I'm not shooting the idea of a heat pump down, just questioning the suitability of a hp in New Hampshire, given that temps average below 45 F between what looks like a minimum of 3.5 to 4 months per year. https://weatherspark.com/countries/US/NH

In general, the top-tier (Mitsubishi, Daikin, LG) cold weather heat pumps can provide coefficient of performance (COP) around 2 even at 0 degrees F. A look at this data base will give you an idea which units are worth looking at and then you will need to investigate candidates a bit further. Generally, COP is given at 47 degrees F, a useless metric for cold climates.

https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product_list/

[TomatoTomahto]

We were in a similar situation in Massachusetts and additionally had AC units that were loud and close to end of life.

We converted to GSHP (Ground Sourced Heat Pump), often called geothermal, and could not be happier. We have solar panels, but even without them, it’s a clear winner for us.

There are many incentives, and rough numbers, I figure the government/utility have taken 40% of the expense. It’s a big upfront cost, but after that, it’s a low maintenance solution that keeps us warm in winter and (shamefully) cool in summer.

TT,
Just for comparison to my own situation, what is the payback interval for GSHP? My natural gas supplier quoted an estimate installation cost of $10k or more for a gas hook up. The payback period was 18 years compared to propane.
So I wonder if payback is more favorable for GSHP. We might go that way.
Thanks

Hvaclorax, it’s not that I’m trying to evade the question, but I just don’t know the answer. We bought the house in late February, so had no good history of heating costs (and for other reasons, wouldn’t take the seller’s word for it). On the electrical side of the equation, the existing solar made electricity “free” and we had enough certified data to take it out of our decision making.

Something else that would make payback difficult to calculate is our preferences; we keep the house cool in the winter and have no shame in keeping it very cool in the summer. I like to sleep at 65F, and do.

We had bought much more house than we needed (or I wanted), and part of our discussions as a couple pre purchase was that I wanted the right to make the house ADA compliant, low maintenance, easy on the environment, etc., so that we could age in place here. The geothermal was a big part of making that happen. I do not miss oil deliveries or smell. We still make limited use of propane for a hot tub and generators, but there’s none in the house.

A friend of mine, local and good with a spreadsheet, claims that we would have much more favorable break even with ASHP. He’s probably right.

[hvaclorax]

Thanks for your candor. I’m sorry the situation isn’t perfect for payback calculations. On the other hand you may have purchased the home without including the heating pump costs. So for you it really doesn’t matter what the system cost. I’d go for that if the house was priced right.

[pshonore]

I know our oil tank will have to be replaced at some point as well, probably $3000+/-. A few particulars:

I would be more concerned of the oil tank. A leak will get expensive quickly if a cleanup is required. If it's outside underground, you may not discover it's leaking until a large amount has leaked.

If the Original Poster has an underground oil tank, they should address this now?

An investigation will be required before sale. In fact, I am amazed the insurance company has not flagged this up (if they are aware)-- would they even insure? No one is going to buy that house without certainty of there being no underground leak? - that is my understanding.

So OP might as well do it now (or probably in the spring, unless it can be done quickly). Because it will have to be replaced with an aboveground structure. I am not even sure a double-walled underground tank would pass muster, now.

Tank is not underground, honestly never heard of that for a residential dwelling

No tank lasts forever. Even in the basement, my oil dealer tells me somewhere around 50 years is the life expectancy of a typical tank. YMMV.