What are good job opportunity for someone without a college degree

[gavinsiu]

I'm wondering... when you say shut down due to Covid, wouldn't that have been a couple of years ago? I didn't think construction trades (I'm assuming that kind of framing) were as affected by Covid as other occupations? How long has this person been without work?

While corvid was a while back, the business didn't shut down until recently. His parent decided to just retire since the business has become a money pit. It's hard to get customer without foot traffic.

Since then, he has found some work doing warehouse related jobs, but he quit after a few months because the work was too grueing and more importantly the bosses were too horrible. I think the major issue is that he's not sure what he wanted to do. My wife is suggesting that she tried to find some resource to determine what he wants to do.

[SomeGuy]

Tech if he's good at it. Many (most?) companies will overlook degree requirements for needed tech skills.

[quantAndHold]

Tech if he's good at it. Many (most?) companies will overlook degree requirements for needed tech skills.

The dude we’re talking about last worked framing pictures.

Right now, the tech industry is going through mass layoffs, so a coding boot camp certificate would qualify him for a $14/hour phone support job at Comcast.

Also, I worked at most tech companies. They will overlook lack of a CS degree for an experienced person with the right skills, but those people almost universally have four year degrees in something else. And the path to get those good software jobs is almost always longer and more difficult than if the person just went and got a CS degree.

[tc101]

There is a severe shortage of handy men to do basic home repairs. There is a glut of college graduates and more and more of their jobs will be done by AI. If I were a young person today I would get a job working for a home re modeler and learn to use hand tools and do basic repairs.

[rich126]

The one thing I see from some young people is not sticking with things long enough. I can understand if something is just a terrible fit but I often think the person expects too much too soon. The reality is that most people don't really like their jobs and most don't hit the ground running but instead need to learn some stuff, develop experience and move up the ranks.

I was lucky to really like my job and people for about 15 years and then it was hit or miss. A few pretty frustrating years, other years it was fine in that it paid well and wasn't stressful but not particularly exciting.

When it comes to tech while some places require certs to get a foot in the door, top places will want to see you have the right skills via programming questions, etc.

Personally I think the interview/application/hiring process has gotten much worse with the addition of various screening tools companies use. This is one area where I don't think technology has been used well. And it can really wear someone down as they apply for dozens or many more positions.

I've found that while companies say they want people, what they really want is often very specific and not very flexible.

[KlangFool]

Personally I think the interview/application/hiring process has gotten much worse with the addition of various screening tools companies use. This is one area where I don't think technology has been used well. And it can really wear someone down as they apply for dozens or many more positions.

rich126,

I disagreed. It is only an obstacle for someone that choose to follow that system. For those that know how to bypass the system, it is a great thing. It eliminates a lot of competition.

People hire people. For those that choose to use their social network to contact the hiring manager, this was never a problem.

For those that choose to learn how to beat the system, they should check out this web site.

https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/

KlangFool

[Zanmar]

Electrical Lineman

[David Jay]

Sales

I work for a company related to the construction industry and plenty of our Outside Sales Reps don’t have any college education. Certain industries will of course require a degree, but I’ve had sales jobs at 3 different companies in my career and there have always been reps without college degrees. They might not get to immediately step into a flashy Tech Sales role, but there’s plenty of companies, especially if they can find one construction related, that are willing to hire someone without a degree.

I agree.

The best sales jobs are ones that allow you to be associated with your passion. If you love machine tools, sell machine tools or machine shop services. If you love the building trades, sell construction projects. If you love airplanes, sell airplanes or aircraft services.

Sales in an area associated with your passion help you avoid burnout because sales, especially during slow periods, can create a lot of stress.

[stan1]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. This person apparently had a hard time in college with some of the teachers. I don't know the full details, but a friend's daughter had the same issue a while back and had to switch colleges. He doesn't have any mental issues. He's been working for a while in his parent's framing business so he probably has some skills with framing, and art restoration, but those might not be high in demand skills. His degree was in music.

I am not sure what he wants to do, but is trying to help him with some ideas. The Starbucks idea is actually not too bad, so are retail things like Ace. He doesn't like the idea of retail, but frankly if I was in his shoe I would git and bear it for a few years on jobs I don't like if it will get me to the next milestone. I feel that he is motivated, but not as motivated as I would be in his shoe. He's not too ambitious on career, he just want a good living I guess. Getting the degree for example may pass some resume requirement hurdles.

He did recently work on a warehouse type job but found this particular job too grueing and kept injuring his back.

Sounds like he needs to find his path in life.
Only so much you can do for an adult who is making his own choices.
Maybe try more of a coaching or facilitating approach to help him figure it out.

By that I mean asking him what he's good at, what he likes, then asking him to brainstorm with you about how he could make some money off those things to support his lifestyle at a desired level. Maybe he's an entrepreneur or small business owner working for himself. Sales might be another option if he has the people skills to be able to interact with others well.

[David Jay]

I think the major issue is that he's not sure what he wanted to do. My wife is suggesting that she tried to find some resource to determine what he wants to do.

Get him the book "What Color is your Parachute?". It is revised annually to keep it relevant.

[stoptothink]

Tech if he's good at it. Many (most?) companies will overlook degree requirements for needed tech skills.

The dude we’re talking about last worked framing pictures.

Right now, the tech industry is going through mass layoffs, so a coding boot camp certificate would qualify him for a $14/hour phone support job at Comcast.

Also, I worked at most tech companies. They will overlook lack of a CS degree for an experienced person with the right skills, but those people almost universally have four year degrees in something else. And the path to get those good software jobs is almost always longer and more difficult than if the person just went and got a CS degree.

My sister is currently a software developer for a major tech company (not FAANGM, but one that everybody here is very aware of) and makes really good money. She had zero tech education or experience as of ~2yrs ago and did a coding bootcamp kind of as a last resort (she was unemployed and living in my parent's basement, at 34). She was offered an internship with tech megacorp due to the bootcamp and then a job immediately after. Granted, she has an Ivy undergrad and a pair of MAs from two other world-renowned universities (all degrees in fields with no connection to STEM in any way or real-world job path outside of academia) so employers are probably willing to take a chance on her because she's obviously intelligent and hard working.

My BIL did not graduate high school and does not even have a GED. He got a handful of certifications and went to work for the program where he got the certifications (a tech program that is an off-shoot of a public university). After working there for a few years he accepted a 6-figure job with a pretty large cyber security firm about a year ago.

My wife is also in tech and started with no education whatsoever (she's since completed a BA in business administration and is now working on a masters). She had to start from the bottom (a call center) and worked her way up to enterprise sales and "customer success".

My anecdotes aside, I do agree with quantandhold; employers of all three of those previously mentioned have had major layoffs recently. It's fortunate they are all good at their jobs. But, if it is something someone has an affinity for, even in the current environment it's still probably the easiest path to a good income.

[RudyS]

I think the major issue is that he's not sure what he wanted to do. My wife is suggesting that she tried to find some resource to determine what he wants to do.

Get him the book "What Color is your Parachute?". It is revised annually to keep it relevant.

That book was the "thing" when I was college age. Decades and decades ago. Still a great resource.

[stan1]

Granted, she has an Ivy undergrad and a pair of MAs from two other world-renowned universities (all degrees in fields with no connection to STEM in any way or real-world job path outside of academia) so employers are probably willing to take a chance on her because she's obviously intelligent and hard working.

Yah, I think so. Smart and hard working people (often women, too) with liberal arts and social sciences degrees have been working into IT jobs for decades.

Not the same situation as OP is describing.

[stoptothink]

Granted, she has an Ivy undergrad and a pair of MAs from two other world-renowned universities (all degrees in fields with no connection to STEM in any way or real-world job path outside of academia) so employers are probably willing to take a chance on her because she's obviously intelligent and hard working.

Yah, I think so. Smart and hard working people (often women, too) with liberal arts and social sciences degrees have been working into IT jobs for decades.

Not the same situation as OP is describing.

Yes, but my other two anecdotes are, at least when they started. I also have two friends that are FAANGM developers, one does not have a degree and the other does, but from a for-profit. Who knows if they would be able to get their jobs in the current environment, but it still seems like tech is the most direct path to good money for people with an affinity for it. No clue if that is relevant to OP.

[wm631]

A pipe burst in a doctor’s house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did mysterious plumber-type things for a while, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.

The doctor exclaimed, “This is ridiculous! I don’t even make that much as a doctor!”

The plumber waited for him to finish and quietly said, “Neither did I when I was a doctor.”

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

[watchnerd]

Plumbers and electricians seem to be in high demand and short supply in my area.

[Wwwdotcom]

Tech if he's good at it. Many (most?) companies will overlook degree requirements for needed tech skills.

The dude we’re talking about last worked framing pictures.

Right now, the tech industry is going through mass layoffs, so a coding boot camp certificate would qualify him for a $14/hour phone support job at Comcast.

Also, I worked at most tech companies. They will overlook lack of a CS degree for an experienced person with the right skills, but those people almost universally have four year degrees in something else. And the path to get those good software jobs is almost always longer and more difficult than if the person just went and got a CS degree.

I think the guy just needs a job, not necessarily a good software job.

Since the guy can't do physical labor, he doesn't really have many other options..

[retireIn2020]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. This person apparently had a hard time in college with some of the teachers. I don't know the full details, but a friend's daughter had the same issue a while back and had to switch colleges. He doesn't have any mental issues. He's been working for a while in his parent's framing business so he probably has some skills with framing, and art restoration, but those might not be high in demand skills. His degree was in music.

I am not sure what he wants to do, but is trying to help him with some ideas. The Starbucks idea is actually not too bad, so are retail things like Ace. He doesn't like the idea of retail, but frankly if I was in his shoe I would git and bear it for a few years on jobs I don't like if it will get me to the next milestone. I feel that he is motivated, but not as motivated as I would be in his shoe. He's not too ambitious on career, he just want a good living I guess. Getting the degree for example may pass some resume requirement hurdles.

He did recently work on a warehouse type job but found this particular job too grueing and kept injuring his back.

A few things you said stand out and I have to ask, does this person display any of the following social symptoms? (Not to be confused with mental issues).

Problems making or maintaining friendships.
Isolation or minimal interaction in social situations.
Poor eye contact or the tendency to stare at others.
Trouble interpreting gestures.
Inability to recognize humor, irony, and sarcasm.
Inappropriate behaviors or odd mannerisms.

[bampf]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. This person apparently had a hard time in college with some of the teachers. I don't know the full details, but a friend's daughter had the same issue a while back and had to switch colleges. He doesn't have any mental issues. He's been working for a while in his parent's framing business so he probably has some skills with framing, and art restoration, but those might not be high in demand skills. His degree was in music.

I am not sure what he wants to do, but is trying to help him with some ideas. The Starbucks idea is actually not too bad, so are retail things like Ace. He doesn't like the idea of retail, but frankly if I was in his shoe I would git and bear it for a few years on jobs I don't like if it will get me to the next milestone. I feel that he is motivated, but not as motivated as I would be in his shoe. He's not too ambitious on career, he just want a good living I guess. Getting the degree for example may pass some resume requirement hurdles.

He did recently work on a warehouse type job but found this particular job too grueing and kept injuring his back.

A few things you said stand out and I have to ask, does this person display any of the following social symptoms? (Not to be confused with mental issues).

Problems making or maintaining friendships.
Isolation or minimal interaction in social situations.
Poor eye contact or the tendency to stare at others.
Trouble interpreting gestures.
Inability to recognize humor, irony, and sarcasm.
Inappropriate behaviors or odd mannerisms.

I am not sure we should be diagnosing autistic behavior on this thread. Perhaps take this to a private message?

[gavinsiu]

A few things you said stand out and I have to ask, does this person display any of the following social symptoms? (Not to be confused with mental issues).

Problems making or maintaining friendships.
Isolation or minimal interaction in social situations.
Poor eye contact or the tendency to stare at others.
Trouble interpreting gestures.
Inability to recognize humor, irony, and sarcasm.
Inappropriate behaviors or odd mannerisms.

No, he does not have have those type of social issues. He is in fact way more social than I am.

[retireIn2020]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. This person apparently had a hard time in college with some of the teachers. I don't know the full details, but a friend's daughter had the same issue a while back and had to switch colleges. He doesn't have any mental issues. He's been working for a while in his parent's framing business so he probably has some skills with framing, and art restoration, but those might not be high in demand skills. His degree was in music.

I am not sure what he wants to do, but is trying to help him with some ideas. The Starbucks idea is actually not too bad, so are retail things like Ace. He doesn't like the idea of retail, but frankly if I was in his shoe I would git and bear it for a few years on jobs I don't like if it will get me to the next milestone. I feel that he is motivated, but not as motivated as I would be in his shoe. He's not too ambitious on career, he just want a good living I guess. Getting the degree for example may pass some resume requirement hurdles.

He did recently work on a warehouse type job but found this particular job too grueing and kept injuring his back.

A few things you said stand out and I have to ask, does this person display any of the following social symptoms? (Not to be confused with mental issues).

Problems making or maintaining friendships.
Isolation or minimal interaction in social situations.
Poor eye contact or the tendency to stare at others.
Trouble interpreting gestures.
Inability to recognize humor, irony, and sarcasm.
Inappropriate behaviors or odd mannerisms.

I am not sure we should be diagnosing autistic behavior on this thread. Perhaps take this to a private message?

I wasn't attempting to diagnose anything, I just noticed the OP's comments about dropping out of college due to personal issues, not too ambitious, worked for parent's art business building frames and was going to school studying music.
Having a few of the issues I listed may be common to Autism but don't mean someone has Autism. In fact, they are social symptoms that are common among various artists.
https://blog.ongig.com/diversity-and-in ... -syndrome/

If that were the case, he would probably be best suited to a career in the arts.
For instance, here's a list of jobs in the Music Industry that don't require a degree with allot of room for advancement.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/fi ... egree-jobs

[gavinsiu]

I wasn't attempting to diagnose anything, I just noticed the OP's comments about dropping out of college due to personal issues, not too ambitious, worked for parent's art business building frames and was going to school studying music.
Having a few of the issues I listed may be common to Autism but don't mean someone has Autism. In fact, they are social symptoms that are common among various artists.
https://blog.ongig.com/diversity-and-in ... -syndrome/

If that were the case, he would probably be best suited to a career in the arts.
For instance, here's a list of jobs in the Music Industry that don't require a degree with allot of room for advancement.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/fi ... egree-jobs

Funny you should say that. His original degree that he was acquiring was for music and business with the intention of working in the music industry. The problem is I am not sure if that's what he wants now. I think we should concentrate on having him figuring out what he wants to do and then scope out what opportunity may be available. Perhaps something will match up.

[tashnewbie]

I think we should concentrate on having him figuring out what he wants to do and then scope out what opportunity may be available. Perhaps something will match up.

I think this is the key.

Relative seems aimless and likely in their 30s. It is what it is, so he shouldn’t beat himself up about it. But he should be motivated to right the ship. He should be diligently thinking about what he wants and pursuing opportunities to break into that area.

That may take some time, depending on what it is, so he may have to settle for something just to pay the bills in the interim. Good luck to him!

[quantAndHold]

It sounds like he should finish his music industry degree, and at the same time, work on starting his own business.

[backpacker61]

When I was out of work (GFC-era), I made use of some of the facilities of my state's Workforce Commission.

Probably most large (and many mid-size) counties will have a state Workforce Commission branch office in their county seat. Their services will probably be free, and they will have a handle on who is hiring in his area.

[gavinsiu]

So my wife run some of test that determines what a person wanted to do. When she and her co-worker tried it, it had been pretty accurate. When it was run on the relative, he ended up with a suggested path being education and something to do with writing. We have to strategize further what he might want to do in that area.

He has however interview for a technical writing position, which surprisingly did not require a college degree. We will see how that goes.

[JBTX]

A pipe burst in a doctor’s house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did mysterious plumber-type things for a while, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.

The doctor exclaimed, “This is ridiculous! I don’t even make that much as a doctor!”

The plumber waited for him to finish and quietly said, “Neither did I when I was a doctor.”

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

[wm631]

A pipe burst in a doctor’s house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did mysterious plumber-type things for a while, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.

The doctor exclaimed, “This is ridiculous! I don’t even make that much as a doctor!”

The plumber waited for him to finish and quietly said, “Neither did I when I was a doctor.”

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

They train you. Most jobs do. The rest is up to you. "Hard work" is kinda the effort necessary for success in any endeavor.

What am I missing here?

[Sandtrap]

I have a relative who worked with the family framing business for a while but that has been shutdown due to corvid, so he's been looking for work. I was wondering what job ideas for someone without a college degree. Note that he has 3 years of college but dropped out due to some personal issues. He has considered finishing the degree but is short on money and want to see if he can find a job that offers tuition reinburstments. I was wondering if the forum have some good ideas on jobs without a degree?

Have read this thread and your responses that gave more info about your "relative".

Some questions:
1
Does said relative live at home?
2
Does he have a car?
Does he own the car?
3
Are the car and living expenses paid for by parents or family?
4
Is said relative a USA citizen and 3-4rth plus generation?
5
Did said relative go to a public high school and graduate or private high school?

(an aside missive:)
Motivation and drive comes from within. . to do anything. . . that "grit" that is insatiable. . . that is "within" and the essence of one's "core self", one's paradigm, one's metric for living when waking each morning.
Paraphrase from the Stoic, Emporer Marcus Aurelius, "To live an examined life in the pursuit of excellence in self and all things VS a life of mediocrity, is the greatest endeavor in life".

Thus:
Perhaps some time spent in an alternate life paradigm of structure, self discipline, self reliance, etc:
Actionably: (full time enlisted, not reserves)

Air Force
Army
Navy
Coast Guard
Marine Corps (though admittance is not a guarantee and standards are strict).

Good luck in your efforts.
j
**(dis laimer) zillions of ways to things and opinionizations and onions based on nil to zero to extensive unique personal and professional experience; this is only one).

[gavinsiu]

Thank you Sandtrap.

In my personal opinion, he does live with his parents, but I think (but is not sure) that the car is shared. He is a US Citizen. He did grow up in a white collar family but was not privileged despite may be having more resources growing up than in a lower income family. He went to public school. In my opinion, I think the safety net his parent provide have been both good and bad. It's good that he had it, but I feel that if he didn't have it, his motivation might increase due to the need to survive for example.

On the other hand, he seems to be actively trying to find work and not out partying with friends, He appears to have a long term girlfriend. so things might be looking up for him if he plays his cards right. I just want to help him find his way whatever that may be.

The military life is probably not for him though. I doubt his girlfriend will let him join.

[JBTX]

A pipe burst in a doctor’s house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did mysterious plumber-type things for a while, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.

The doctor exclaimed, “This is ridiculous! I don’t even make that much as a doctor!”

The plumber waited for him to finish and quietly said, “Neither did I when I was a doctor.”

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

They train you. Most jobs do. The rest is up to you. "Hard work" is kinda the effort necessary for success in any endeavor.

What am I missing here?

It can be long hours and physical work. The OP said person in question had worked at a warehouse and described work as “grueling” and had back injuries. I don’t doubt that, I’ve talked to people who work at a warehouse and they said they are walking literally 5 miles a day and/or doing repetitive physical tasks.

My perception is many people these days don’t grow up doing hard physical work, and are just not either physically able or willing to do it.

[Carguy85]

It seems most 4 year college degrees are meaningless now unless if it’s a specific requirement for a specific career path. (Wife and I both have graduate degrees btw but specifically required for our professions) Are you able to communicate and willing to treat people right? Can you generally get along with others? Are you willing to work hard AND smart and be dependable? Some of the most important things aren’t taught nor can be acquired simply with a 4 year degree. Thus, I don’t believe that he is disadvantaged simply because he doesn’t have a completed undergrad degree nor does it probably make sense to spend time/money to finish it just because all things considered without it being a specific requirement to a specific profession. I see examples of this everyday where kids aimlessly go to college and may even stick it out to get a degree and are arguably worse off for having wasted time/money doing so. Good luck in helping your family member. I wish you the best.

[stoptothink]

A pipe burst in a doctor’s house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did mysterious plumber-type things for a while, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.

The doctor exclaimed, “This is ridiculous! I don’t even make that much as a doctor!”

The plumber waited for him to finish and quietly said, “Neither did I when I was a doctor.”

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

They train you. Most jobs do. The rest is up to you. "Hard work" is kinda the effort necessary for success in any endeavor.

What am I missing here?

It can be long hours and physical work. The OP said person in question had worked at a warehouse and described work as “grueling” and had back injuries. I don’t doubt that, I’ve talked to people who work at a warehouse and they said they are walking literally 5 miles a day and/or doing repetitive physical tasks.

My perception is many people these days don’t grow up doing hard physical work, and are just not either physically able or willing to do it.

Able, yes; willing no. I do agree with you, sounds like the person being discussed is likely not willing to do something like HVAC work.

[stoptothink]

It seems most 4 year college degrees are meaningless now unless if it’s a specific requirement for a specific career path. (Wife and I both have graduate degrees btw but specifically required for our professions) Are you able to communicate and willing to treat people right? Can you generally get along with others? Are you willing to work hard AND smart and be dependable? Some of the most important things aren’t taught nor can be acquired simply with a 4 year degree. Thus, I don’t believe that he is disadvantaged simply because he doesn’t have a completed undergrad degree nor does it probably make sense to spend time/money to finish it just because all things considered without it being a specific requirement to a specific profession. I see examples of this everyday where kids aimlessly go to college and may even stick it out to get a degree and are arguably worse off for having wasted time/money doing so. Good luck in helping your family member. I wish you the best.

My wife was making 6-figures before she had a year of college under her belt because she's good with people and loves developing relationships. She's in "customer success", which is essentially sales in her specific company (fintech). Most of her colleagues have elite university undergrads and started their careers at Goldman Sachs or Big-4, and many have MBAs, but they hired her before she finished her undergrad because she had a proven history of production. She's generally among the top 2-3 producers (out of >40 on her team) every single month.

The difference between her and her colleagues is that she had to start from the literal bottom; in the call center. But, she was promoted multiple times and ended up at her current level within 2yrs, and then has had recruiters from competitors all over her the last handful of years (she's on company #2, likely to take an offer to go to company #3 this summer).

Me; I needed that PhD (which dictated a pretty defined career path) because I do not have the soft/people skills that she has.

[Sandtrap]

Thank you Sandtrap.

In my personal opinion, he does live with his parents, but I think (but is not sure) that the car is shared. He is a US Citizen. He did grow up in a white collar family but was not privileged despite may be having more resources growing up than in a lower income family. He went to public school. In my opinion, I think the safety net his parent provide have been both good and bad. It's good that he had it, but I feel that if he didn't have it, his motivation might increase due to the need to survive for example.

On the other hand, he seems to be actively trying to find work and not out partying with friends, He appears to have a long term girlfriend. so things might be looking up for him if he plays his cards right. I just want to help him find his way whatever that may be.

The military life is probably not for him though. I doubt his girlfriend will let him join.

to op:
thank you for your reply and details.

Things are pretty clear at this point. This info might be good if inserted in the original lst post (use pencil icon).

best of luck.
j

[JBTX]

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

They train you. Most jobs do. The rest is up to you. "Hard work" is kinda the effort necessary for success in any endeavor.

What am I missing here?

It can be long hours and physical work. The OP said person in question had worked at a warehouse and described work as “grueling” and had back injuries. I don’t doubt that, I’ve talked to people who work at a warehouse and they said they are walking literally 5 miles a day and/or doing repetitive physical tasks.

My perception is many people these days don’t grow up doing hard physical work, and are just not either physically able or willing to do it.

Able, yes; willing no. I do agree with you, sounds like the person being discussed is likely not willing to do something like HVAC work.

You could argue that collectively many of us are not in the level of shape to do such work as decades ago, for various reasons that go beyond the scope of this thread.

[wm631]

Very similar to this true story from a couple of decades ago, courtesy of my HVAC-Refrigeration private contractor brother:

A customer called him out to look at his balky refrigerator. My brother diagnosed the problem fairly quickly, fortunately already had a replacement part in his truck, explained the problem-solution to the customer, constantly standing over his shoulder (also, he had placed it in writing with the warranty on the invoice - a routine practice for Bob). The customer scrutinized the invoice, pointed to the part cost, versus the labor being charged. And, demanded to know why the large difference. Bobby calmly waited for him to finish, then pointed to his own head. "The $12.95 is for the motor part. The other $40 is for what's up here."

Those prices were circa late 1980's. They've gone up a bit since then. Granted, YouTube self-do has helped ENORMOUSLY since then, but the fundamental principle is still the same. It's also why you don't see many economics or world studies majors get fired. They don't have to actually fix a problem.

HVAC refrigeration is a lucrative field for technicians. I know someone in the business. But it is hard work and requires problem solving abilities.

They train you. Most jobs do. The rest is up to you. "Hard work" is kinda the effort necessary for success in any endeavor.

What am I missing here?

It can be long hours and physical work. The OP said person in question had worked at a warehouse and described work as “grueling” and had back injuries. I don’t doubt that, I’ve talked to people who work at a warehouse and they said they are walking literally 5 miles a day and/or doing repetitive physical tasks.

My perception is many people these days don’t grow up doing hard physical work, and are just not either physically able or willing to do it.

Able, yes; willing no. I do agree with you, sounds like the person being discussed is likely not willing to do something like HVAC work.

I just stopped at my local Walmart this morning, a couple of hours ago. There was a huge, monstrous sign on it's front: "Hiring Now. Starting $15.00 an hr." Nice benefits, too. I understand their stock 401K plan isn't half bad. After a few decades you could retire on it, alone.

Btw. The "girlfriend" shouldn't be a deciding factor in this major life choice. If she is, they both need to pause, think ... and re-evaluate things in their current relationship.

[gavinsiu]

You could argue that collectively many of us are not in the level of shape to do such work as decades ago, for various reasons that go beyond the scope of this thread.

I may have an opposing opinion on hard work. My mom has worked in factories for several decades and as a result has a non-functioning finger from a factory machine, a healed broken rib from another accident, and damaged knee from carrying really heavy equipment. There is hard work and there is hard work.

[gavinsiu]

I just stopped at my local Walmart this morning, a couple of hours ago. There was a huge, monstrous sign on it's front: "Hiring Now. Starting $15.00 an hr." Nice benefits, too. I understand their stock 401K plan isn't half bad. After a few decades you could retire on it, alone.

Btw. The "girlfriend" shouldn't be a deciding factor in this major life choice. If she is, they both need to pause, think ... and re-evaluate things in their current relationship.

I have to disagree on relationship not being a deciding factor. I think it depends on how far into the relationship the couple is in.

[YeahBuddy]

If he likes working with his hands then absolutely get him into the trades. Contractors are in HUGE demand in much of the country. I'm having difficulty finding anyone to return my calls/texts. Electricians. General contractors. Plumbers. HVAC. And even the "locals" recommended via word of mouth are either very busy or charge a LOT.

Granted, it may take a few years or working for lower wages and for him to get the necessary skills and then market himself but once he goes on his own he will do quite well. I was just quoted $3k for a 6 hours job to replace a $500 door.

[Sandtrap]

You could argue that collectively many of us are not in the level of shape to do such work as decades ago, for various reasons that go beyond the scope of this thread.

I may have an opposing opinion on hard work. My mom has worked in factories for several decades and as a result has a non-functioning finger from a factory machine, a healed broken rib from another accident, and damaged knee from carrying really heavy equipment. There is hard work and there is hard work.

this is very true

j

[Sandtrap]

If he likes working with his hands then absolutely get him into the trades. Contractors are in HUGE demand in much of the country. I'm having difficulty finding anyone to return my calls/texts. Electricians. General contractors. Plumbers. HVAC. And even the "locals" recommended via word of mouth are either very busy or charge a LOT.

Granted, it may take a few years or working for lower wages and for him to get the necessary skills and then market himself but once he goes on his own he will do quite well. I was just quoted $3k for a 6 hours job to replace a $500 door.

Community college trade schools have 2 year programs from electrician to finish carpentry to welding certifications and many are "feeders" into the local trade unions depending on the state and jow much the state has unionized the trades and industry work and quality levels, including Contracting licenses and certification standards amd levels.

*with certifications and (real) journeyman qualifications, usually takes at least 5 years, entry level positions can be found in public/gov't work, either city, state or fed, such as fed public works on military bases, military hospitals, gov't institutions, etc. Full time Fed secured seniority positions are the cream of the crop as far as overall pay and retirement, etc.
But, all this varies by State and location and so forth and so forth.

j
(dis laimer): zillions of opinionizations and onions based on nil to extensive personal and professional experience, this is only one.

[gavinsiu]

Just a follow up that the relative have found some work doing a contract position with a possibility to hire. They have been trying to take as many free training as possible offered by government programs and have searched for a year. Let's hope this worked work them. They have had some bad luck with previous jobs.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Maverick3320]

"Someone with the right skills can make 500k working for a big tech company without having a degree."

What are the right skills? Please elaborate. I would like to learn these skills too.

Not meant to be snarky, but, if you have to ask, you don't have them. And you can't just take a class or two and have them. It is generally a deep and abiding understanding and or passion for technology. Its a little like asking what skills do I need to be a surgeon so I can get $500k. Yes, you don't need a degree. Except you really kind of do unless you are very very good already. You do need a very deep understanding of how things work and the impact on the estate when they don't.

On the other hand you can make $100k quite easily with fairly rudimentary skills in technology.

Happy to discuss more, but, we would be hijacking the thread. Suggest starting another thread or PM as you wish.

Not to be snarky, but telling someone, "if you have to ask, you don't have them" in a thread discussing job opportunities and related skills is pretty unhelpful.

[Maverick3320]

I just stopped at my local Walmart this morning, a couple of hours ago. There was a huge, monstrous sign on it's front: "Hiring Now. Starting $15.00 an hr." Nice benefits, too. I understand their stock 401K plan isn't half bad. After a few decades you could retire on it, alone.

Btw. The "girlfriend" shouldn't be a deciding factor in this major life choice. If she is, they both need to pause, think ... and re-evaluate things in their current relationship.

I have to disagree on relationship not being a deciding factor. I think it depends on how far into the relationship the couple is in.

I mean...let's rehash the summary of what we've been provided so far:


-left school because he didn't get along with the professors
-left work because he didn't get along with the boss(es)
-no "grueling" work
-no military
-no retail
-girlfriend potentially affecting career path


Speaking from experience, just the last point alone - letting a girlfriend determine a career path - is, to me, the height of silliness. The best thing for some folks is to take a good hard look in the mirror.

[gavinsiu]

I mean...let's rehash the summary of what we've been provided so far:


-left school because he didn't get along with the professors
-left work because he didn't get along with the boss(es)
-no "grueling" work
-no military
-no retail
-girlfriend potentially affecting career path


Speaking from experience, just the last point alone - letting a girlfriend determine a career path - is, to me, the height of silliness. The best thing for some folks is to take a good hard look in the mirror.

I have alter my career path so that my wife can achieve hers. There may be some truth in what you say. Perhaps the person is too sensitive, but it could be a matter of luck as well. I could count the number of times when I have been thrown under a bus at work. I count myself lucky that I have managed to get this far in life with so many deficient traits. i have to give the person a benefit of the doubt and help them move forward. The fact that the person is progressing is good enough for now.

[Sandtrap]

Just a follow up that the relative have found some work doing a contract position with a possibility to hire. They have been trying to take as many free training as possible offered by government programs and have searched for a year. Let's hope this worked work them. They have had some bad luck with previous jobs.

Thanks everyone for your help.

thanks for the update.
consider editing the original post title to include "update" and insert this new info in that post as well using the pencil icon.

good news.
j

[heyyou]

Now too late for the OP's worker, but for others, UPS has very physical, part-time warehouse jobs that fit the schedules of college students. The full-time delivery driver jobs have steady work with good benefits that are quite suitable for college dropouts, if working outdoors is acceptable. The union wages may not suit ambitious college graduates, but the year-round, steady employment pays better than some higher paying, intermittent jobs. The full-timers who stay longer than a couple of years, usually continue until early retirement with a no-COLA pension that is initially slightly higher than age-65 SS, but SS with its annual COLA eventually outgrows the pension. Having both of those incomes in retirement is helpful.