What Book Are You Currently Reading? Part VI

[nisiprius]

After reading The Bright Ages: A new history of medieval Europe by Matthew Gabriele and David M. Perry, I decided to also read A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age, by William Manchester. A nice contrast. Manchester is a better writer and tells a better story. The story he tells is old, familiar, and kind of wrong, but no matter. As far as Manchester is concerned, yeah, Rome fell. According to Gabriele and Perry, no, it didn't.

He seems to be absolutely hipped on Magellan, to him Magellan's expedition's circumnavigating the globe is The Event that marks The End of the "medieval mind."

Lots of cool stuff there which maybe lots of people already knew. I always thought it was an "ink-pot" that Martin Luther threw at the Devil. Nope. And like we always ended our third-grade book reports, "and if you want to know what it was, you'll have to read the book."

Who does the "He" refer to? Manchester or Gabriele and Perry?

Manchester. Edited my post accordingly.

[bertilak]

After reading The Bright Ages: A new history of medieval Europe by Matthew Gabriele and David M. Perry, I decided to also read A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age, by William Manchester. A nice contrast. Manchester is a better writer and tells a better story. The story he tells is old, familiar, and kind of wrong, but no matter. As far as Manchester is concerned, yeah, Rome fell. According to Gabriele and Perry, no, it didn't.

He seems to be absolutely hipped on Magellan, to him Magellan's expedition's circumnavigating the globe is The Event that marks The End of the "medieval mind."

Lots of cool stuff there which maybe lots of people already knew. I always thought it was an "ink-pot" that Martin Luther threw at the Devil. Nope. And like we always ended our third-grade book reports, "and if you want to know what it was, you'll have to read the book."

Who does the "He" refer to? Manchester or Gabriele and Perry?

Manchester. Edited my post accordingly.

Thanks. It is as I expected but the proximity to Gabriele and Perry put me off. Also, sometime there is confusion in number between pronouns and their antecedents, resulting in further misgivings.

EDIT: I'm not saying your post demonstrated confusion, but the fact that there is some general confusion, makes one wonder. Thus my question.

[mancich]

The Pentagon by Steve Vodel. Fascinating read on how the Pentagon came about and was built

[FreeAtLast]

"Alexander At End Of The World", by Rachel Kousser (Mariner Books 2024)

This book deserves a thoughtful, extensive review, but I am enjoying way too much Summer fun right now to have the patience to sit down and produce one. So, a short one will have to suffice. (Yea, I can already hear all of the heckling to come...."Listen, pal, please do us a big favor and make all of your future reviews as short as this one?")

Young King Alexander (eventually to be anointed as "The Great") and his legions rampaged for 10 years across most of the known world from their home of Macedonia to the subcontinent of India to Afghanistan and finally back to Babylon, where Alexander died at the age of 32. What this book gives you is a blow-by-blow, almost month-by-month accounting of the conquering hordes' travels, beginning with the burning of Persepolis. Of all the books that I have previously read about Alexander, none have provided such a detailed, comprehensive, and descriptive timeline of all of his conquests. It delves deeply into his all-important relationships with his often prickly generals and relates the long growth process of Alexander's personality from an immature, 22 year old glory hound to a seasoned, learned leader of his devoted soldiers. For all you aficionados of the Ancient World, these qualities should drive you to purchase a copy for your reference bookshelves.

[yankees60]

"Alexander At End Of The World", by Rachel Kousser (Mariner Books 2024)

This book deserves a thoughtful, extensive review, but I am enjoying way too much Summer fun right now to have the patience to sit down and produce one. So, a short one will have to suffice. (Yea, I can already hear all of the heckling to come...."Listen, pal, please do us a big favor and make all of your future reviews as short as this one?")

Young King Alexander (eventually to be anointed as "The Great") and his legions rampaged for 10 years across most of the known world from their home of Macedonia to the subcontinent of India to Afghanistan and finally back to Babylon, where Alexander died at the age of 32. What this book gives you is a blow-by-blow, almost month-by-month accounting of the conquering hordes' travels, beginning with the burning of Persepolis. Of all the books that I have previously read about Alexander, none have provided such a detailed, comprehensive, and descriptive timeline of all of his conquests. It delves deeply into his all-important relationships with his often prickly generals and relates the long growth process of Alexander's personality from an immature, 22 year old glory hound to a seasoned, learned leader of his devoted soldiers. For all you aficionados of the Ancient World, these qualities should drive you to purchase a copy for your reference bookshelves.

One I'd definitely like to read.

You motivated me to at least get it on my Amazon Wish List.

Too expensive to buy now but either I buy it when it comes down in price or I read a library copy.

[like2read]

“The River of Doubt, Theodore Roosevelt’s Darkest Journey” by Candice Millard.

I read that several years ago and it's fading, but I remember it as being very interesting, very well written, and very worth reading.

Just completed River of Doubt.

Great writing. Brilliant descriptions of the Amazon, native peoples, driven explorers and the challenging jungle environment. Super duper read.

[ruralavalon]

“The River of Doubt, Theodore Roosevelt’s Darkest Journey” by Candice Millard.

I read that several years ago and it's fading, but I remember it as being very interesting, very well written, and very worth reading.

Just completed River of Doubt.

Great writing. Brilliant descriptions of the Amazon, native peoples, driven explorers and the challenging jungle environment. Super duper read.

I read that years ago, and recall it was very Interesting.

[roamingzebra]

"Alexander At End Of The World", by Rachel Kousser (Mariner Books 2024)

This book deserves a thoughtful, extensive review, but I am enjoying way too much Summer fun right now to have the patience to sit down and produce one. So, a short one will have to suffice. (Yea, I can already hear all of the heckling to come...."Listen, pal, please do us a big favor and make all of your future reviews as short as this one?")

Young King Alexander (eventually to be anointed as "The Great") and his legions rampaged for 10 years across most of the known world from their home of Macedonia to the subcontinent of India to Afghanistan and finally back to Babylon, where Alexander died at the age of 32. What this book gives you is a blow-by-blow, almost month-by-month accounting of the conquering hordes' travels, beginning with the burning of Persepolis. Of all the books that I have previously read about Alexander, none have provided such a detailed, comprehensive, and descriptive timeline of all of his conquests. It delves deeply into his all-important relationships with his often prickly generals and relates the long growth process of Alexander's personality from an immature, 22 year old glory hound to a seasoned, learned leader of his devoted soldiers. For all you aficionados of the Ancient World, these qualities should drive you to purchase a copy for your reference bookshelves.

I had heard that Alexander was a genius military commander, but not a good Boglehead: He didn't have an estate plan. So his empire fell apart after his untimely death.

But maybe it was more complicated than that. This sounds like a good follow-up read:

"The Last Will and Testament of Alexander the Great: The Truth Behind the Death that Changed the Graeco-Persian World Forever"by David Grant

A re-assessment of Alexander the Great's death, exposing a conspiracy by Alexander's generals after his death to undermine his empire.

Alexander the Great conquered the largest empire the world had ever seen while still in his twenties but fell fatally ill in Babylon before reaching 33 years old. His wife Roxanne was still pregnant with what would be his only legitimate son, so there was no clear-cut heir. The surviving accounts of his dying days differ on crucial detail, with the most popular version claiming Alexander uttered ‘to the strongest’ when asked to nominate a successor on his deathbed. Decades of ‘civil war’ ensued as Alexander’s hard-won empire was torn asunder by generals in the bloody ‘funeral games’ his alleged final words heralded in. The fighting for supremacy inevitably led to the extermination of his bloodline.

But was Alexander really so short-sighted and irresponsible?

Finally, after 2,340 years, the mystery is unravelled. In a forensic first, David Grant presents a compelling case for what he terms the ‘greatest succession cover up of all time’. Alexander’s lost Last Will and Testament is given new credibility and Grant deciphers events that led to its erasure from history by the generals who wanted to carve up the empire for themselves.

(I haven't read either book, but I thought the whole topic of estate planning in the ancient-world interesting.)

[MP173]

Just finished "Tell Me Who You Are" by Louisa Luna...new author. Picked it up at the "new section of the public library.

This falls under the "gripping psychological thriller" category - new author for me. It is described as "The Silent Patient meets One Girl in this sharp psychological thriller about a psychiatrist with a shocking past and her dangerous new patient." That pretty much describes it, although I have not read "The Silent Patient." I gave this a 4.6 (our of 5). I will go back for more of Luna's work.

I am also working on "Against All Odds, Volume 2" This is the history of the Burlington Northern Railroad's Innovative Intermodal Business. This volume covers from 1989 thru 1993 and is a detailed history of the BN railroad. The author Mark Cane was a VP in the railroad and details the internal struggles the company had not only with competitors but also within it's own organization. Volume 1 covered 1970 thru 1989. Volume 3 will cover 3Q, 1993 thru the merger with Santa Fe to create the BNSF railroad which was purchased by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. These volumes are only for those interested in recent railroad history, railfans, or those with passion for logistics. A very detailed history. Enjoying every page. The author wanted to record the history while it was still available.

Ed

[jebmke]

Just finished "Tell Me Who You Are" by Louisa Luna...new author. Picked it up at the "new section of the public library.

This falls under the "gripping psychological thriller" category - new author for me. It is described as "The Silent Patient meets One Girl in this sharp psychological thriller about a psychiatrist with a shocking past and her dangerous new patient." That pretty much describes it, although I have not read "The Silent Patient." I gave this a 4.6 (our of 5). I will go back for more of Luna's work.

I am also working on "Against All Odds, Volume 2" This is the history of the Burlington Northern Railroad's Innovative Intermodal Business. This volume covers from 1989 thru 1993 and is a detailed history of the BN railroad. The author Mark Cane was a VP in the railroad and details the internal struggles the company had not only with competitors but also within it's own organization. Volume 1 covered 1970 thru 1989. Volume 3 will cover 3Q, 1993 thru the merger with Santa Fe to create the BNSF railroad which was purchased by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. These volumes are only for those interested in recent railroad history, railfans, or those with passion for logistics. A very detailed history. Enjoying every page. The author wanted to record the history while it was still available.

Ed

Luna’s Alice Vega trilogy is pretty good. Glad to see she is out with a new one.

[ruralavalon]

West with Giraffes, by Lynda Rutledge.

This novel is historical fiction, about 17 year old driving a truck across the U.S. taking young giraffes to the San Diego Zoo during the Depression, along with an "old man" zoo employee and young woman photographer.

Recommended.

[doobiedoo]

"The Woman in the Window" by A.J. Finn was quite good.

It's sort of a takeoff on Alfred Hitchcock's movie "Rear Window" starring Jimmy Stewart.
In Rear Window, Stewart's character has a broken leg and spends his time looking out his rear window into other apartments. He thinks someone gets murdered. The police investigate but don't find any evidence of foul play.

A.J. Finn's book has a female psychologist as the protagonist. She has agoraphobia instead of a broken leg. But the net result is the same -- she can't leave her house. She thinks she sees someone get murdered too, but the detectives don't believe her. There are many complicating factors -- a basement tenant, sexual partners, divorce, alcohol, medication, etc.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/403 ... the-window 3.95
From Goodreads:
".. the author does a great job of capturing both the fuzzy-headed confusion brought on by Anna's alcoholism and the suffocating claustrophobia of staying inside for almost a year. She makes for a pretty great unreliable narrator, and it is easy to feel her frustration when she can't even be sure herself if what she says is completely true."

[ruralavalon]

Klan War, by Fergus Bordewich.

This is an interesting and detailed history of how the administration of President Grant effectively destroyed the Klu Klux Klan during Reconstruction. I had not known how much success he had in that and how much that effort was central to his Presidency.

Recommended.

[jebmke]

Klan War, by Fergus Bordewich.

This is an interesting and detailed history of how the administration of President Grant effectively destroyed the Klu Klux Klan during Reconstruction. I had not known how much success he had in that and how much that effort was central to his Presidency.

Recommended.

You should read Egan's "A Fever in the Heartland." KKK rose again in the midwest.

[ruralavalon]

Klan War, by Fergus Bordewich.

This is an interesting and detailed history of how the administration of President Grant effectively destroyed the Klu Klux Klan during Reconstruction. I had not known how much success he had in that and how much that effort was central to his Presidency.

Recommended.

You should read Egan's "A Fever in the Heartland." KKK rose again in the midwest.

I have read that book, also very informative.

[Mr. Rumples]

Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro

It is very seldom that I can't finish a book; this was one. Dull and boring. I will leave it at the check in counter at the gym; perhaps someone will enjoy it.

I see others here have liked it, alas I didn't get it.

[JPM]

Rick Atkinson's "The Day of Battle", his detailed account of the Sicilian and Italian campaigns of 1943-44. Less humor than his "An Army at Dawn" and much more critical of the upper command levels' carelessness with the lives of their troops. Author seems to feel that the blunders of the North African campaign were perhaps understandable due to the inexperience of all command levels as well as at the small unit levels. By the time of the Italian campaign, begun more than a year after the Torch landings, many of the worst commanders had been replaced. The commanders in the Italian campaign should have known better the tactical difficulties entailed by modern mobile industrialized warfare against their veteran German opponents and so should have made fewer foolish unrealistic plans than they did. In their defense, they needed a lot more air and artillery than they had available.

The author relies a good deal on the men's letters home to give a grunts-eye view of the day to day. They were written by the officers and men engaged in the battles on which he reports.

[Retired1809]

"How Not to Age" by Michael Greger, MD, FACLM

Excellent reference book backed up by thousands of citations and footnotes supported by double-blind tests. Good science. I recommend the Large Print edition, preferably from your local public library.

[Van]

What This Comedian Said Will Shock You by Bill Maher.

Interesting, occasionally outrageous and often very insightful insights on every day life, politics, religion, parenting, college education, marriage, race relations etc.etc.

[heartwood]

Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro

It is very seldom that I can't finish a book; this was one. Dull and boring. I will leave it at the check in counter at the gym; perhaps someone will enjoy it.

I see others here have liked it, alas I didn't get it.

My first reaction to your post was that I did not like it either when I read it. Then I went back to my review earlier.

I quickly finished Klara and the Sun: A novel: Kazuo Ishiguro.

Now I have to figure out if I liked it and what it might signify. He's the Remains of the Day and Never Let me Go author.

I've moved on to Later by Stephen King. So far about a boy who sees dead people, and more. King seldom disappoints me.

Guess I've made up my mind and do not recommend it.

[Fallible]

Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro

It is very seldom that I can't finish a book; this was one. Dull and boring. I will leave it at the check in counter at the gym; perhaps someone will enjoy it.

I see others here have liked it, alas I didn't get it.

My first reaction to your post was that I did not like it either when I read it. Then I went back to my review earlier.

I quickly finished Klara and the Sun: A novel: Kazuo Ishiguro.

Now I have to figure out if I liked it and what it might signify. He's the Remains of the Day and Never Let me Go author.

I've moved on to Later by Stephen King. So far about a boy who sees dead people, and more. King seldom disappoints me.

Guess I've made up my mind and do not recommend it.

I read it in January 2022 and was fascinated with much of it - the "near future," an "artificial friend" and, above all, the relationship to, and interaction with, humans. It led me to try to generally catch up on artificial intelligence and just in time for OpenAI's first ChatGPT.

Here's my 2022 BH post on the book, in case you're interested:

"Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:10 pm
Finished Klara and the Sun, a fascinating novel by Kazuo Ishiguro about a gifted robot who is purchased as an AF (artificial friend) for a young girl suffering from a mysterious illness. It's all wonderfully about Klara, how her machine works its wonders for the humans, who for me were interesting, but only bit players created to showcase Klara. It's so well written by this Nobel laureate that I was fully drawn into it from the beginning, the store where Klara and other AFs are put on display to sell and we begin to learn that Klara has special qualities for a humanoid such as feelings, being observant, insight, imagination, curiosity, fear, etc. But Klara also has limitations in perception and how she handles this often has humorous qualities. It's possible to get to know Klara so well that a reader could predict when "boxes" suddenly appeared to help her understand.

A minor frustration throughout for me was not being able to imagine what Klara looks like, other than a few features such as short, dark hair; yet humans in this near-future world immediately recognized all AFs. Also, my not being up enough on AI to better understand Klara's place among her kind, I was left with many questions about these machines in general. I thought finding answers would take away from the book, but they've only made it more interesting."

[MP173]

Just finished "Suspect" by Scott Turow.

Quite a page turner for me. Set in a fictional midwestern city, the Chief of Police is accused of "sex for promotion". A local lawyer and his PI peal back the truth and discover a plot by a former cop for the Chief's dismissal.

Excellent.

ed

[heartwood]

Just finished Wordhunter by Stella Sands. It's an Amazon Best of the Month pick; I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, but I get emails from them each month.

https://www.amazon.com/Wordhunter-Novel ... 142&sr=8-1

From the blurb, "A(n) ... detective story about a woman who uses her uncanny ability to analyze words and speech patterns to help solve crimes."

Interesting story about linguistic forensics, think Unabomber. Distracting diagramming of sentences in the text; I eventually skipped most of those as annoying and not advancing the story. A caution about language and several of the themes.

I just checked ratings on Amazon(4.4) and on goodreads(3.72). Quite a difference in ratings?

The main character may be styled on Lisbeth Salander (Girl with a Dragon Tattoo). I can easily see a sequel to Wordhunter.

I conditionally recommend it.

[nisiprius]

Spurred on by favorable mentions upthread--and by the bargain price--I read my first and last book by Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West.

It's readable, in a sort of way, and I read all of it, just to see if there was something I wasn't "getting" that would become clear as it unfolded. But nothing ever unfolded. It just went on and on and on, alternating evocative descriptions of landscapes with graphically described incidents of senseless violence. The plot goes nowhere except to gradually kill off all of the human protagonists it follows, including the one the book begins with on page one.

Something that was not made clear to me in the book--unless I missed it--is that Glanton and his band were hired by Mexico to kill Apaches--and were paid by the scalp. Unfortunately Apache scalps don't look different from any other scalps, and the Glanton gang scalped anybody they could, Apaches or not, to earn the bounties. So perhaps some of the slaughter was more rational than I realized.

There are irritating mannerisms. This book sent me to the dictionary more often than usual, as he is fond of using very obscure words. I found a map produced by fans, helpful to me because otherwise I would have been very vague about what part of the country he was in. I suppose the specific landscape details are accurate. There ought to be, and maybe is, a coffee-table book with giant two-page color spreads of the landscape scenery in the book. For unfathomable-to-me reasons, he spells the word "Spanish"--as in the language--with a small "s," and ditto the word "Indian." I've read a fair number books written in the 1800s--books spelling "canyon" as "cañon," for example--but I don't think I've ever seen "spanish" and "indian."

There is a good deal of Spanish (or spanish?) dialogue. He doesn't translate it, nor does he handle it in the clever way some writers do, adding subtle English-language context that makes it easy to guess the meaning. I rather enjoyed it, as my Spanish was mostly up to the task, but I don't think he was being considerate to the general reader.

Glanton is an historic character, more or less. The Judge, not so much. Theoretically he should be the historical Judge Holden, but McCarthy's Judge seems to be a mythic or supernatural being. At the very end, McCarthy repeats, three times, "He says he will never die." So if the point is that the unceasing senseless violence is supposed to be authentic realism, he blows it by including a supernatural being.

A key incident involves the band running out of gunpowder, and the Judge, who obviously knows the territory rather well, leads them to a bat cave for to collect nitrogenous bat guano; has them build a clay kiln and make charcoal; and finally leads them to a volcano where they can collect sulfur. He has homegrown methods for purifying all of them, and mixes them to make gunpowder. Pretty cool. But the stuff not only works, but is of superb quality. And that, my friends, is where I was unable to suspend disbelief.

And the part about buying the two pups from the small boy is where I really should have stopped reading.

To those who liked it... those who may think, as Wikipedia suggests, that it is "widely recognized as one of the greatest American novels of all time..." peace.

But no more Cormac McCarthy for me. (And I've already put the movie on the list of movies not to watch).

P.S. Of course, one of the meanings of "meridian" is "noon," as in a.m. (ante meridian) and p.m. (post meridian). In another context--reading something about Brazil--"meridional" can mean "southern." Figuring out how those connect with north-south lines of longitude is on my to-do list.

[protagonist]

As far as Manchester is concerned, yeah, Rome fell. According to Gabriele and Perry, no, it didn't.

What do you mean by "falling"?

I have lately become obsessed with the Roman Republic (which, unlike the empire, definitely DID fall), and in particular, what, if any, lessons can be taken from the Roman Republic and its fate to understand our current situation and the future of our nation. The drama of its final century or so of progressive chaos (146-27 BC) is fascinating . If it has not been done it would make a riveting miniseries.

The Roman Republic lasted almost 500 years, from 509 BC to 27 BC.
Ours is pushing 250.
The Athenian democracy lasted about 200 in various forms.

This has also gotten me off on a tangent exploring democratic and quasi-democratic institutions in general...direct vs. representative...and if, as Plato, Aristotle and so many others suggested, the inevitable endpoint is tyranny. Is that avoidable? And if so, how?

So after reading the two books I mentioned in this thread previously that focused on the Roman Republic and its demise ("The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic", by Mike Duncan, and "Rubicon", by Tom Holland) , I have now started reading Edith Hall's "Introducing the Ancient Greeks: From Bronze Age Seafarers to Navigators of the Western Mind."

[hudson]

Spurred on by favorable mentions upthread--and by the bargain price--I read my first and last book by Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West.

It's readable, in a sort of way, and I read all of it, just to see if there was something I wasn't "getting" that would become clear as it unfolded. But nothing ever unfolded. It just went on and on and on, alternating evocative descriptions of landscapes with graphically described incidents of senseless violence. The plot goes nowhere except to gradually kill off all of the human protagonists it follows, including the one the book begins with on page one.

Something that was not made clear to me in the book--unless I missed it--is that Glanton and his band were hired by Mexico to kill Apaches--and were paid by the scalp. Unfortunately Apache scalps don't look different from any other scalps, and the Glanton gang scalped anybody they could, Apaches or not, to earn the bounties. So perhaps some of the slaughter was more rational than I realized.

There are irritating mannerisms. This book sent me to the dictionary more often than usual, as he is fond of using very obscure words. I found a map produced by fans, helpful to me because otherwise I would have been very vague about what part of the country he was in. I suppose the specific landscape details are accurate. There ought to be, and maybe is, a coffee-table book with giant two-page color spreads of the landscape scenery in the book. For unfathomable-to-me reasons, he spells the word "Spanish"--as in the language--with a small "s," and ditto the word "Indian." I've read a fair number books written in the 1800s--books spelling "canyon" as "cañon," for example--but I don't think I've ever seen "spanish" and "indian."

There is a good deal of Spanish (or spanish?) dialogue. He doesn't translate it, nor does he handle it in the clever way some writers do, adding subtle English-language context that makes it easy to guess the meaning. I rather enjoyed it, as my Spanish was mostly up to the task, but I don't think he was being considerate to the general reader.

Glanton is an historic character, more or less. The Judge, not so much. Theoretically he should be the historical Judge Holden, but McCarthy's Judge seems to be a mythic or supernatural being. At the very end, McCarthy repeats, three times, "He says he will never die." So if the point is that the unceasing senseless violence is supposed to be authentic realism, he blows it by including a supernatural being.

A key incident involves the band running out of gunpowder, and the Judge, who obviously knows the territory rather well, leads them to a bat cave for to collect nitrogenous bat guano; has them build a clay kiln and make charcoal; and finally leads them to a volcano where they can collect sulfur. He has homegrown methods for purifying all of them, and mixes them to make gunpowder. Pretty cool. But the stuff not only works, but is of superb quality. And that, my friends, is where I was unable to suspend disbelief.

And the part about buying the two pups from the small boy is where I really should have stopped reading.

To those who liked it... those who may think, as Wikipedia suggests, that it is "widely recognized as one of the greatest American novels of all time..." peace.

But no more Cormac McCarthy for me. (And I've already put the movie on the list of movies not to watch).

P.S. Of course, one of the meanings of "meridian" is "noon," as in a.m. (ante meridian) and p.m. (post meridian). In another context--reading something about Brazil--"meridional" can mean "southern." Figuring out how those connect with north-south lines of longitude is on my to-do list.

I tried to read McCarthy's Passenger. I never got on board. At page 155 of 383, I quit. No more McCarthy for me.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passe ... thy_novel)

"USA Today books editor Barbara VanDenburgh notes that the book "can be at times frustratingly withholding and opaque...giving way to plotless philosophical discursions."

[Yukon]

Duplicate delete

[Yukon]

So after reading the two books I mentioned in this thread previously that focused on the Roman Republic and its demise ("The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic", by Mike Duncan, and "Rubicon", by Tom Holland) , I have now started reading Edith Hall's "Introducing the Ancient Greeks: From Bronze Age Seafarers to Navigators of the Western Mind."

Would these books be ok for someone who has zero knowledge of the "fall"? Or is there an intro to the Roman Republic that you'd suggest to help lay out the people, places, etc?

[Opinika]

The Last King of America: The Misunderstood Reign of George III
By Andrew Roberts

[roamingzebra]

As far as Manchester is concerned, yeah, Rome fell. According to Gabriele and Perry, no, it didn't.

I have lately become obsessed with the Roman Republic (which, unlike the empire, definitely DID fall), and in particular, what, if any, lessons can be taken from the Roman Republic and its fate to understand our current situation and the future of our nation. The drama of its final century or so of progressive chaos (146-27 BC) is fascinating . If it has not been done it would make a riveting miniseries.

The Roman Republic lasted almost 500 years, from 509 BC to 27 BC.
Ours is pushing 250.
The Athenian democracy lasted about 200 in various forms.

I gotta admit that in this "instant" age of fast-consuming of information, non-fiction books that go into these important comparisons are probably too long and too scholarly for a lot of people's attention spans, including mine. I kind of hanker for a book of Venn diagrams that addresses certain aspects of comparative nation fail and lets the reader engage with the diagrams. Unfortuately, the diagrams would probably be like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/Dz00zZ1f/venn-diagram-2.webp
https://i.postimg.cc/K8J4FLks/venn-diagram.webp

True, but misleading

This has also gotten me off on a tangent exploring democratic and quasi-democratic institutions in general...direct vs. representative...and if, as Plato, Aristotle and so many others suggested, the inevitable endpoint is tyranny. Is that avoidable? And if so, how?

I scratch my itch on this issue by watching TV series that deal with some of the older empires/reigns/governments. One thing I found eye-opening -- maybe not for others more historically-attuned -- is that some of these conquering leaders (Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Alexander the Great, etc.) let the conquered peoples practice their own religions and cultures. They understand that even though these locals may dislike their lives having been taken over by an authoritarian, they at least have some individual liberties and can continue practicing their way of life, and it keeps them happy enough not to necessaily foment rebellions.

It seems the real end point of these empires/governments is catalyzed by power grabs by rivals who are not necessarily oppressed societal victims, but rather jealous individuals in the military or in the ruler's family that simply have a thirst for power.

Anyway, that's my shallow TV take. (And it doesn't directly address your issues about form of government) The historically learned are probably cringing at my naive observations, but at least they can have some fun with the Venn diagrams.

(Didn't mean to take this off topic. Let's get back to books).

[rockstar]

Finished up Grave Peril, the third Dresden Files book. Not as good as the first book, but it's about equivalent to the second.

Currently reading three books right now:

* Blood Meridian
* Capital
* Turn of the Screw

[BashDash]

Just started
Billy Summers by Stephen King.

[protagonist]

So after reading the two books I mentioned in this thread previously that focused on the Roman Republic and its demise ("The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic", by Mike Duncan, and "Rubicon", by Tom Holland) , I have now started reading Edith Hall's "Introducing the Ancient Greeks: From Bronze Age Seafarers to Navigators of the Western Mind."

Would these books be ok for someone who has zero knowledge of the "fall"? Or is there an intro to the Roman Republic that you'd suggest to help lay out the people, places, etc?

Yes, they are very readable and engaging. Not like dry textbooks or academic treatises. The reality is so sensational that it is as exciting as any action story, but more so, knowing that the events really happened, and with contemporary parallels. And they seem well-researched to me.

I would start with Duncan's book...it is shorter and a page-turner. It covers the period from the birth of Rome, the rejection of the Kingdom and the creation of the Republic in 509 BC, through the death of Caesar (44 BC). But it mostly focuses on the Republic's period of decline and fall subsequent to the ultimate defeat of Carthage and Corinth in 146 BC and the resultant sudden transformation of Rome from a locally powerful city-state to the sole power of the entire Mediterranean.

If you are still interested (as I was, even more after completing that book), I would then check out Rubicon, which covers the same period but goes forward through the end of the Republic and ascension of Augustus as emperor. It is more detailed, with lots of quotes from original sources, but still an easy read and quite riveting. It should be a mini-series.

[protagonist]

As far as Manchester is concerned, yeah, Rome fell. According to Gabriele and Perry, no, it didn't.

I have lately become obsessed with the Roman Republic (which, unlike the empire, definitely DID fall), and in particular, what, if any, lessons can be taken from the Roman Republic and its fate to understand our current situation and the future of our nation. The drama of its final century or so of progressive chaos (146-27 BC) is fascinating . If it has not been done it would make a riveting miniseries.

The Roman Republic lasted almost 500 years, from 509 BC to 27 BC.
Ours is pushing 250.
The Athenian democracy lasted about 200 in various forms.

I gotta admit that in this "instant" age of fast-consuming of information, non-fiction books that go into these important comparisons are probably too long and too scholarly for a lot of people's attention spans, including mine. I kind of hanker for a book of Venn diagrams that addresses certain aspects of comparative nation fail and lets the reader engage with the diagrams. Unfortuately, the diagrams would probably be like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/Dz00zZ1f/venn-diagram-2.webp
https://i.postimg.cc/K8J4FLks/venn-diagram.webp

True, but misleading

The books are quite engaging and readable for the general public (see my response to Yukon above).
As for the Venn diagram re: current relevance, I believe you need to draw your own Venn diagram after reading them. People will come to their own subjective opinions about this. Neither book pushes an agenda.

I scratch my itch on this issue by watching TV series that deal with some of the older empires/reigns/governments. One thing I found eye-opening -- maybe not for others more historically-attuned -- is that some of these conquering leaders (Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Alexander the Great, etc.) let the conquered peoples practice their own religions and cultures.

Yes, that seemed to be the norm in ancient polytheistic societies. Let's not get off on a tangent discussing why...that would not be relevant to this thread or appropriate for this forum.

I am hoping that somebody (you, maybe?) that frequents this forum is a TV producer and will make a mini-series based on these books. You could stick to the facts without Hollywood embellishment and it could still compete with Game of Thrones.

[protagonist]

Spurred on by favorable mentions upthread--and by the bargain price--I read my first and last book by Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West.

It's readable, in a sort of way, and I read all of it, just to see if there was something I wasn't "getting" that would become clear as it unfolded. But nothing ever unfolded. It just went on and on and on, alternating evocative descriptions of landscapes with graphically described incidents of senseless violence. The plot goes nowhere except to gradually kill off all of the human protagonists it follows, including the one the book begins with on page one...


To those who liked it... those who may think, as Wikipedia suggests, that it is "widely recognized as one of the greatest American novels of all time..." peace.

It was refreshing to read your impressions of this book, which were quite similar to my own (though so many others seem to have loved it. I kept thinking I may be missing something.)
It made me go back and dig up my post on this when I read the book last year. Prior to reading it I read "The Road" (upon recommendation from my daughter, whose tastes are usually similar to mine). I felt the same way about The Road as I did about Blood Meridian, but with all the accolades I decided to give McCarthy a second chance. My 2023 post about this:

"
I read Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian (after The Road), and I am less enthusiastic about it than just about everybody else I know who read it , so take my criticism with that in mind. Most people I know who read it loved it. I was very impressed by it, and admired the writing from a technical perspective, but I didn't love the book. ("You did everything you could, Doctor, but the patient still died.") I wanted to like it more than I did.

The positive:

McCarthy can write. His descriptions were beautiful, lush and lavish....Melville comes to my mind. And I didn't find it very difficult to read. (Many described it as very challenging. I didn't find it anywhere near as challenging as DeLillo or Joyce or Pynchon or Durrell or even Faulkner, though I would recommend reading via e-reader rather than print because unless you are a walking OED you will probably have to look up the meaning of at least one word per page, which I find distracting and annoying).

THAT SAID, I felt the novel lacked forward momentum and, with few brief exceptions, just meandered. Several pages of long sentences describing in glorious detail the southwestern desert landscape and its 1849 inhabitants, perforated by one gruesome, gory massacre after another...another trek through landscape....another massacre....another trek...another massacre....no real direction or anything to captivate the reader with surprise past the first fifty pages or so. There were several interesting existential monologues (mostly by the character known as "The Judge"), but even these seemed to lack direction. Perhaps that was the whole point....the meaninglessness of all the carnage. Melville at least understood momentum.

So I would judge McCarthy as an amazing and incredibly sensitive technician with language, but not such an amazing story-teller. The same was true of The Road (which I read before Blood Meridian, and which also seemed to aimlessly meander). An apt comparison might be a young jazz conservatory graduate who can play lightening fast licks and patterns of arcane chord substitutions in 13.5/4 time , compared with, say, Miles or Monk, who are quintessential musical storytellers. Or for you rockers, the guitar playing of Yngvie Malmsteen vs that of B B King . Which do you prefer?...

I'm done with McCarthy."

[Nivek]

Just finished Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. Greatly enjoyed the book, a bit like grown up Harry Potter in an alternative 1800’s. Plus BBC made it into a series which was really well done too that I watched with my wife after reading the book.

[roamingzebra]

I am hoping that somebody (you, maybe?) that frequents this forum is a TV producer and will make a mini-series based on these books. You could stick to the facts without Hollywood embellishment and it could still compete with Game of Thrones.

Nope, not a TV producer.

My post was not meant as a thumbs down on any type of non-fiction book. Merely a reflection of my personal exhaustion with drinking from the fire hose of information these days. There's so much to keep up with on everything (security, home maintenance, critical national legal topics, etc.) that for me at least the days of sitting down and reading a thoroughly researched book on almost any topic seems long past (hopefully, temporarily though). Especially since there are, within the context of this discussion, some good commentators on TV and parts of the internet with expertise in authoritarianism, tyranny, disinformation, etc. who are also effective communicators. And also, as alluded to, plenty of high-quality TV series that do a great job of tackling important events/topics, historical eras and so on. Best though is to get a balance of all mediums.

[ETK517]

Nixonland by Rick Perlstein. Very long, detailed, and incisive yet highly readable and even wryly funny history of the rise and fall of Richard Nixon and the surrounding social and political forces. I find the tumultuous 1960s-70s time period fascinating, and while I tend to avoid contemporary political books which seem so often to merely rehash the same partisan battle lines and tired tropes we are all exposed to in our everyday news diets, I find political histories written outside the current context (this book dates to 2008) often have interesting things to say about the present day. This author could not have predicted the 2024 political landscape, but I see so many parallels.

[protagonist]

Klan War, by Fergus Bordewich.

This is an interesting and detailed history of how the administration of President Grant effectively destroyed the Klu Klux Klan during Reconstruction. I had not known how much success he had in that and how much that effort was central to his Presidency.

Recommended.

A few years ago I read Bill Bryson's "One Summer: America, 1927". I really enjoyed the book...a captivating glimpse into the USA of the Roaring Twenties. There was a fairly large segment of that book focused on the second wave of the Klan in the 1920s when it gained a tremendous amount of political power, and its subsequent demise following the abduction, rape, torture and murder of a young woman by the Grand Dragon in 1925. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Oberholtzer

If you are interested, it's a real page-turner.

[ekid]

Spurred on by favorable mentions upthread--and by the bargain price--I read my first and last book by Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West.

It's readable, in a sort of way, and I read all of it, just to see if there was something I wasn't "getting" that would become clear as it unfolded. But nothing ever unfolded. It just went on and on and on, alternating evocative descriptions of landscapes with graphically described incidents of senseless violence. The plot goes nowhere except to gradually kill off all of the human protagonists it follows, including the one the book begins with on page one...


To those who liked it... those who may think, as Wikipedia suggests, that it is "widely recognized as one of the greatest American novels of all time..." peace.

It was refreshing to read your impressions of this book, which were quite similar to my own (though so many others seem to have loved it. I kept thinking I may be missing something.)
It made me go back and dig up my post on this when I read the book last year. Prior to reading it I read "The Road" (upon recommendation from my daughter, whose tastes are usually similar to mine). I felt the same way about The Road as I did about Blood Meridian, but with all the accolades I decided to give McCarthy a second chance. My 2023 post about this:

"
I read Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian (after The Road), and I am less enthusiastic about it than just about everybody else I know who read it , so take my criticism with that in mind. Most people I know who read it loved it. I was very impressed by it, and admired the writing from a technical perspective, but I didn't love the book. ("You did everything you could, Doctor, but the patient still died.") I wanted to like it more than I did.

The positive:

McCarthy can write. His descriptions were beautiful, lush and lavish....Melville comes to my mind. And I didn't find it very difficult to read. (Many described it as very challenging. I didn't find it anywhere near as challenging as DeLillo or Joyce or Pynchon or Durrell or even Faulkner, though I would recommend reading via e-reader rather than print because unless you are a walking OED you will probably have to look up the meaning of at least one word per page, which I find distracting and annoying).

THAT SAID, I felt the novel lacked forward momentum and, with few brief exceptions, just meandered. Several pages of long sentences describing in glorious detail the southwestern desert landscape and its 1849 inhabitants, perforated by one gruesome, gory massacre after another...another trek through landscape....another massacre....another trek...another massacre....no real direction or anything to captivate the reader with surprise past the first fifty pages or so. There were several interesting existential monologues (mostly by the character known as "The Judge"), but even these seemed to lack direction. Perhaps that was the whole point....the meaninglessness of all the carnage. Melville at least understood momentum.

So I would judge McCarthy as an amazing and incredibly sensitive technician with language, but not such an amazing story-teller. The same was true of The Road (which I read before Blood Meridian, and which also seemed to aimlessly meander). An apt comparison might be a young jazz conservatory graduate who can play lightening fast licks and patterns of arcane chord substitutions in 13.5/4 time , compared with, say, Miles or Monk, who are quintessential musical storytellers. Or for you rockers, the guitar playing of Yngvie Malmsteen vs that of B B King . Which do you prefer?...

I'm done with McCarthy."

I suggest McCarthy has found what sells. Gratuitous vicious explicit violence. So he writes these potboilers with otherwise good writing.

[rockstar]

Spurred on by favorable mentions upthread--and by the bargain price--I read my first and last book by Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian; or, The Evening Redness in the West.

It's readable, in a sort of way, and I read all of it, just to see if there was something I wasn't "getting" that would become clear as it unfolded. But nothing ever unfolded. It just went on and on and on, alternating evocative descriptions of landscapes with graphically described incidents of senseless violence. The plot goes nowhere except to gradually kill off all of the human protagonists it follows, including the one the book begins with on page one...


To those who liked it... those who may think, as Wikipedia suggests, that it is "widely recognized as one of the greatest American novels of all time..." peace.

It was refreshing to read your impressions of this book, which were quite similar to my own (though so many others seem to have loved it. I kept thinking I may be missing something.)
It made me go back and dig up my post on this when I read the book last year. Prior to reading it I read "The Road" (upon recommendation from my daughter, whose tastes are usually similar to mine). I felt the same way about The Road as I did about Blood Meridian, but with all the accolades I decided to give McCarthy a second chance. My 2023 post about this:

"
I read Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian (after The Road), and I am less enthusiastic about it than just about everybody else I know who read it , so take my criticism with that in mind. Most people I know who read it loved it. I was very impressed by it, and admired the writing from a technical perspective, but I didn't love the book. ("You did everything you could, Doctor, but the patient still died.") I wanted to like it more than I did.

The positive:

McCarthy can write. His descriptions were beautiful, lush and lavish....Melville comes to my mind. And I didn't find it very difficult to read. (Many described it as very challenging. I didn't find it anywhere near as challenging as DeLillo or Joyce or Pynchon or Durrell or even Faulkner, though I would recommend reading via e-reader rather than print because unless you are a walking OED you will probably have to look up the meaning of at least one word per page, which I find distracting and annoying).

THAT SAID, I felt the novel lacked forward momentum and, with few brief exceptions, just meandered. Several pages of long sentences describing in glorious detail the southwestern desert landscape and its 1849 inhabitants, perforated by one gruesome, gory massacre after another...another trek through landscape....another massacre....another trek...another massacre....no real direction or anything to captivate the reader with surprise past the first fifty pages or so. There were several interesting existential monologues (mostly by the character known as "The Judge"), but even these seemed to lack direction. Perhaps that was the whole point....the meaninglessness of all the carnage. Melville at least understood momentum.

So I would judge McCarthy as an amazing and incredibly sensitive technician with language, but not such an amazing story-teller. The same was true of The Road (which I read before Blood Meridian, and which also seemed to aimlessly meander). An apt comparison might be a young jazz conservatory graduate who can play lightening fast licks and patterns of arcane chord substitutions in 13.5/4 time , compared with, say, Miles or Monk, who are quintessential musical storytellers. Or for you rockers, the guitar playing of Yngvie Malmsteen vs that of B B King . Which do you prefer?...

I'm done with McCarthy."

I really like No Country for Old Men.

The Road reads like a D&D adventure, where you’re always getting a random encounter. I’m a third of the way through Blood Meridian, and it’s a bit better. But it still has this random encounter feel to it. The violence doesn’t bother me. Reminds me of the Punisher.

[ekid]

Oh- I've just picked up "In France Profound"
https://www.amazon.com/France-Profound- ... C75&sr=1-1

(It's quite lengthy!)

[protagonist]

I am hoping that somebody (you, maybe?) that frequents this forum is a TV producer and will make a mini-series based on these books. You could stick to the facts without Hollywood embellishment and it could still compete with Game of Thrones.

Nope, not a TV producer.

My post was not meant as a thumbs down on any type of non-fiction book. Merely a reflection of my personal exhaustion with drinking from the fire hose of information these days. There's so much to keep up with on everything (security, home maintenance, critical national legal topics, etc.) that for me at least the days of sitting down and reading a thoroughly researched book on almost any topic seems long past (hopefully, temporarily though). Especially since there are, within the context of this discussion, some good commentators on TV and parts of the internet with expertise in authoritarianism, tyranny, disinformation, etc. who are also effective communicators. And also, as alluded to, plenty of high-quality TV series that do a great job of tackling important events/topics, historical eras and so on. Best though is to get a balance of all mediums.

Mike Duncan has a History of Rome podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/6wiEd40oPbQ9UK1rSpIy8I
I have not listened to it (because I read his book), so I cannot comment on its quality. But it might be up your alley.