Vanguard to Exit Individual 401(k), Multi-SEP, and SIMPLE IRA Plans With Ascensus Deal

[DrivenToSuces$]

FYI now someone in another forum spoke to Schwab, who said Ascensus should provide Transfer of Account paperwork.

Not to use Ascensus's In-Service Distribution Request Form, and obviously not to check a box in your employer portal terminating yourself as an employee.

"Transfer of Account paperwork" definitely sounds like it makes a whole lot more sense than either of those two options.

[DrivenToSuces$]

Has anyone received your "Plan document with an updated and revised trust and service agreement for signature", from Ascensus?

I just re-read the paper letter Vanguard mailed in April. It says:

"Your account at Ascensus will be governed by the same Plan document but with an updated and revised trust and service agreement. A signature-ready version will be provided to you after the transition."

Just logged into my employER portal and there's nothing there (tried searching everywhere, including Home->Information->Forms).

Also noticed my Plan ID # is different than it was in Vanguard. When a Solo 401K moves from one home to another, isn't the plan ID supposed to stay the same but maybe add -001 to end? In Vanguard it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan Name: My Sole Proprietorship Solo 401K" and "Plan ID 12312312" but in Ascensus it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan: MY SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP SOLO 401K (456789)". Even the number of digits is different (6 at Ascensus, 8 at Vanguard).

UPDATE: I see Ascensus's "welcome page" FAQs notes our Plan ID # will change with the move. So..... for those of us transferring our plan to Fidelity/Schwab, I assume we put the Ascensus Plan ID # on the Fidelity/Schawb paperwork, not the Vanguard Plan ID #? Do we still add -001 to the end to indicate we're not establishing a new plan but simply transfering an existing one?

Ascensus is showing the original "employee eligibility date" of 1/1/2019, when I originally opened the Solo 401K at Vanguard, so that's good at least.

[DrivenToSuces$]

Just found a very interesting page -- not sure who this is for, seems like it's for Ascensus employees.

It explains to them how to assist clients who wish to move IRAs, including SEP-IRAs. Though this is about IRAs, it shows Ascensus knows what we're trying to do with transfering our Solo 401Ks (of course they do, that's what they just did with Vanguard!):
https://thelink.ascensus.com/articles/2 ... ortability

They explain there are two ways to move IRAs: Transfer or Rollover.

Ascensus's description of a Transfer:
"Transfers are one of the easiest ways to move money from one IRA to another IRA of the same type (e.g., Traditional to Traditional, Roth to Roth). IRA owners can transfer these assets between two separate financial organizations. If handled properly, a transfer is neither reportable nor taxable. When an IRA owner directs a transfer of assets, he does not actually receive the assets for personal use. The check is made payable to the receiving financial organization on his behalf or it is transferred directly from one IRA to another IRA at the same organization."

Ascensus's description of a Rollover:
"Another common way of moving assets is through an IRA-to-IRA rollover. With rollovers, the IRA owner receives the distributed assets and then rolls the assets over to a new IRA within 60 days. For example, the distributing organization may make the check payable to the IRA owner or deposit the assets directly into his checking or savings account. Rollover transactions are reported to the IRS. The distribution is reported on Form 1099-R, Distributions From Pensions, Annuities, Retirement or Profit-Sharing Plans, IRAs, Insurance Contracts, etc., and the rollover contribution is reported on Form 5498, IRA Contribution Information."

Conclusion:
It's clear that Ascensus understands the difference between a transfer of assets within the same account to a different financial institution, vs a rollover to the participant.

It's also clear they know that transfers of assets do not generate 1099-Rs, whereas rollovers do. Therefore, they know it is wrong to be telling Solo 401K plan administrators who wish to transfer the assets of the Solo 401K to the new financial institution for the Solo 401K that they should be marking employees terminated so the funds can be distributed or filling out in-service distribution request forms. Doing a distribution will generate a 1099-R.

We should not be getting a 1099-R -- and we won't be getting a Form 5498 from the new financial institution since the new place will be correctly coding our deposit as Transfer of Assets. So, the IRS will have a 1099-R for us showing our Solo 401K distributed its assets to us but it won't be getting a Form 5498 showing the funds were ever deposited anywhere (the new institution won't issue a 5498 b/c funds weren't "contributed", they were transferred).

So not only will the IRS be expecting a Form 5500-EZ from us documenting the plan termination (since there's no way to do a Solo 401K distribution without terminating the plan, unless you have a spouse participating), they will also be expecting a Form 5498 showing we deposited that money into a Rollover IRA (or into a corporate 401K - it's not possible to rollover to new Solo 401K, since a new Solo 401K can't exist for 12 months). When the IRS doesn't receive that 5498, they're going to think we just cashed the check and kept the money, creating a huge tax crisis for us in a couple of years when the IRS gets around to sending us a letter.

Long story short: Ascensus CANNOT process this as a distribution and they MUST NOT issue a 1099-R.

[xelda]

Also noticed my Plan ID # is different than it was in Vanguard. When a Solo 401K moves from one home to another, isn't the plan ID supposed to stay the same but maybe add -001 to end? In Vanguard it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan Name: My Sole Proprietorship Solo 401K" and "Plan ID 12312312" but in Ascensus it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan: MY SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP SOLO 401K (456789)". Even the number of digits is different (6 at Ascensus, 8 at Vanguard).

The 456789 is your Ascensus account number, not your plan ID.

[DrivenToSuces$]

Okay, sorry to be spamming this thread, but just found something very important to share.

Ascensus hasn't given any of us our Plan Document yet to sign (apparently they're giving themselves till 12/31/24 to send it) but I just read the Solo 401K Plan Document templates linked on the "welcome" page. Note: Ascensus is the Trustee/Custodian/Recordkeeper of our Solo 401K (Vanguard resigned as Trustee), while we are the Employer, Plan Sponsor, Plan Administrator.

The words "Replacement of Trustee" in these docs caught my eye, because that's how Vanguard notified us: in their letter to us in April, they wrote, "This is Vanguard's 30-day notice to you of our resignation as Trustee". Okay, so if Vanguard can resign as Trustee, surely we can remove the new one they set us up with i.e. Ascensus...

These template docs are linked from the "welcome Vanguard customers" page (https://welcome2ascensus.ascensus.com/)

Ascensus I(k) Trust Agreement
https://www.retsupport.com/resources/pd ... -plans.pdf
Article VII - Replacement of Trustee:
7.01: The Employer may remove the Trustee at any time after providing at least 60 days' written notice.
7.02a: After removing the Trustee, the Employer shall appoint a successor trustee [i.e. we open the account at Fidelity]
7.02b.: The Trustee shall deliver to the successor trustee all assets and property of the Fund, either in-kind or as proceeds after liquidation, as determined by the Recordkeeper, together with all records the successor trustee needs to administer the trust properly.

Ascensus Recordkeeping Services Agreement
https://www.retsupport.com/resources/pd ... -plans.pdf
Schedule A - Services:
2. Distribution Services:
2A. Prepare and file 1099-R
2B. Process permissable distributions as requested
3. Plan Termination and Service Termination:
3A. Service Termination: provide copy of Plan Document at Employer's request, provide reports, and transfer plan assets to one investment provider.

My conclusion:
Article VII is most important: it details how to get rid of them. The other doc's Schedule A's inclusion of the words "Service Termination" in addition to "Plan Termination" indicates to me they understand there's a distinction between terminating our plan (no) vs terminating their services. It's also clear Ascensus will be issuing 1099-Rs for any transfers processed as a distribution (creating a big IRS problem for us).

What it seems to me we should do:

We should notify Ascensus in writing (via the requests@ascensus.com email?) that per Article VII of the Solo 401K Trust Agreement, we are removing Ascensus as Trustee and we shall appoint Fidelity [Schwab/eTrade/whoever] as successor trustee. We are giving Ascensus the 60 days notice required by Article VII. At the earliest possible date, no later than 60 days from this notice, pursuant to Article VII we expect them to deliver the Fund's assets to the successor trustee (Fidelity/Schwab/eTrade/whoever).

Also found this, instructions from Guideline (similar to MySolo401k? A corporate 401K provider?) of how you would transfer your Plan out of them and into a new provider -- this is exactly the type of instructions we need from Ascensus:

https://help.guideline.com/en/articles/ ... r-provider
https://help.guideline.com/en/articles/ ... any-s-plan
https://help.guideline.com/en/articles/ ... eline-plan

[DrivenToSuces$]

Also noticed my Plan ID # is different than it was in Vanguard. When a Solo 401K moves from one home to another, isn't the plan ID supposed to stay the same but maybe add -001 to end? In Vanguard it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan Name: My Sole Proprietorship Solo 401K" and "Plan ID 12312312" but in Ascensus it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan: MY SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP SOLO 401K (456789)". Even the number of digits is different (6 at Ascensus, 8 at Vanguard).

The 456789 is your Ascensus account number, not your plan ID.

Ascensus notes in their "welcome Vanguard customers" FAQ that they are indeed changing our Plan # to be something different from the original Vanguard Plan ID #. Whether this 6-digit # is the plan # or not, we cannot know, because they haven't given us the Plan Document to sign yet.

[numberman]

Also noticed my Plan ID # is different than it was in Vanguard. When a Solo 401K moves from one home to another, isn't the plan ID supposed to stay the same but maybe add -001 to end?

Those numbers from Vanguard and Ascensus are their internal numbers for your plan. I'd call that an "account number", but maybe they have a different number for the "account"s associated with the plan, like each employee in the plan, that kind of thing. That's why it's not "account number".

There's no "plan ID" on the 5500-EZ. What identifies the plan is the name, a 3-digit plan number (001), and an associated EIN. Starting in 2023, the IRS also knows the Opinion Letter serial number associated with the plan for pre-approved/prototype plans.

Do you see some place on the Fidelity forms asking you to enter these "plan ID" numbers?

[valgen630]

My post was merged into this thread and I have read through the previous posts. I completed my paperwork with Fidelity and I am waiting for my solo 401k to be established. The Ascensus rep I spoke with said to select terminate employee (myself) to trigger the distribution to transfer the assets. It appears this is not the proper way to do so. How do I transfer my assets without terminating my plan?

Editing - Spoke with another rep this morning at Ascensus and was provided the same information. On the employer portal I need to provide a termination date for the employee (myself). Once terminated I need to log in as the employee and select Distribution / Termination and this option under Distribution - Terminations - You no longer work for the employer who sponsors this plan and would like to request a cash distribution, rollover distribution or a combination of both (split) from your retirement account.

When I read this it appears as though I am no longer working for the employer (myself) who sponsors the plan. This language is concerning to me as I will continue to work for the employer being self-employed. The rep indicated this is the only way to move my account.

[DrivenToSuces$]

My post was merged into this thread and I have read through the previous posts. I completed my paperwork with Fidelity and I am waiting for my solo 401k to be established. The Ascensus rep I spoke with said to select terminate employee (myself) to trigger the distribution to transfer the assets. It appears this is not the proper way to do so. How do I transfer my assets without terminating my plan?

Editing - Spoke with another rep this morning at Ascensus and was provided the same information. On the employer portal I need to provide a termination date for the employee (myself). Once terminated I need to log in as the employee and select Distribution / Termination and this option under Distribution - Terminations - You no longer work for the employer who sponsors this plan and would like to request a cash distribution, rollover distribution or a combination of both (split) from your retirement account.

When I read this it appears as though I am no longer working for the employer (myself) who sponsors the plan. This language is concerning to me as I will continue to work for the employer being self-employed. The rep indicated this is the only way to move my account.

Yes, that is wrong. They are treating your request like a plan participant wanting a distribution. The only circumstances in which a participant can take a distribution are if their employment terminates, the plan sponsor terminates the plan, or you reach age 59.5. As a solopreneur, if you terminate your employment, in the eyes of the IRS you *must* terminate your plan b/c there's no more employment/business to sponsor the plan.

You're not requesting a distrubution or rollover at all. No money will leave the plan. You, as Plan Sponsor, are simply transfering the Plan and its assets to a new Custodian -- Fidelity.

Please see the post upthread (here on pg27) about Article VII of the plan document: it appears we as Employer & Plan Administrator should be invoking this. Just as Vanguard resigned as Trustee and transfered our plan, we are removing Ascensus as Trustee and transfering the plan to Fidelity. Per Article VII, upon our notifying them in writing that we are removing them, Ascensus is required to deliver the Plan's assets to the replacement Trustee we've appointed (just as Vanguard transfered to Ascensus). We are terminating Ascensus's *service*, not terminating the plan.

[numberman]

My post was merged into this thread and I have read through the previous posts. I completed my paperwork with Fidelity and I am waiting for my solo 401k to be established. The Ascensus rep I spoke with said to select terminate employee (myself) to trigger the distribution to transfer the assets. It appears this is not the proper way to do so. How do I transfer my assets without terminating my plan?

Did you see the link in GoldenBear17's post viewtopic.php?p=7994382#p7994382 ? That page says you don't need to set a termination date for anything, and provides instructions on what to do. (Which I think some people here are following, or have followed. I'm not sure if anyone yet has successfully followed those instructions without indicating a termination date.)

[GoldenBear17]

I was searching for information about how to transfer from Ascensus and this page came up from MySolo401k. Perhaps it was posted recently. It looks from the content of the article like they've been getting questions about this. See if this helps. If anyone is able to use this successfully please share your experience.

"How to Transfer Your Solo 401(k) Away from Ascensus: Step-by-Step Guide for Vanguard Individual 401k Accounts Holders that Transitioned to Ascensus"

WOW, what a find! Thank you!!!

Folks, this link thoroughly explains how to get out of Ascensus - including a form & email address Ascensus has failed to tell anyone. Looks like MySolo401k published this page on August 12th, so either they're reading here or also found they had to tackle this craziness for their clients.

Thoughts:

1) A couple parts of these instructions need to be tweaked for those of us not using MySolo401K & simply moving to, say, Fildelity. I don't think we should write "Restatement to 3rd Party Plan Provider" but rather "Restatement to [???]." MySolo401k is a 3rd party plan provider b/c it's a "non-prototype plan" -- if we're not using them, we're not using a 3rd party, we remain our own Plan Sponsor & Plan Administrator using a prototype plan at, say, Fidelity; Fidelity's not a "plan provider" per my understanding (?). I also wonder if our sentence should say "Amendment" rather than "Restatement": MySolo401k notes that moving a plan to them requires "restating the plan" since they're a 3rd party provider, they're setting up a trust, etc. and we must do a restatement of our plan to their governing documents/adoption agreement. I wonder if we, as Plan Sponsor & Plan Administrator, simply moving the funds to a new brokerage (rather than bringing on a 3rd party provider) is just an "amendment" of our existing plan rather than restating it? Hmm.

Similary, the instructions talk about filling in a Trustee name and the plan's EIN -- that also is different if you're using MySolo401K, b/c they create a new trust to own your Solo401K with its own new EIN (all b/c it's a non-prototype plan). In our case, our Solo401K's EIN is the same as our business's, and I assume we just write our biz name (or personal name??) on the line where they say to write trustee name?

2) I feel vindicated that my instincts were right that it's wrong to mark "employee terminated", that there must be a hidden Ascensus form and contact.

3) I'm frustrated that it says it's okay if Ascensus sends a 1099-R. I still don't think they should do that; like I said, this isn't a distribution or rollover. No 1099-Rs are sent when corporate 401Ks move their accounts to a new brokerage, so ours shouldn't either. At least MySolo401k says it's okay, I suppose

4) This says Ascensus will definitely mail a check (and we must first change our holdings to cash) because Ascensus "does not allow" in-kind or ACATS transfers. What a$$holes!!! Ascensus just our ACCEPTED in-kind electronic transfers INTO their account, but they myteriously don't allow sending them back out that way...

I don't personally care that much about having to convert my holdings to cash and deal with the check -- it's a jerk move by Ascensus & less than ideal, but whatever. However, I am concerned b/c Schwab's instructions for moving your Solo 401K with them says:

"When moving your Individual 401(k) from one custodian to another (without ending your Individual 401(k) plan entirely), the assets should be moved via a transfer and not as a distribution/rollover."

It seems that even with this form MySolo401K found, Ascensus is indeed still processing this as a distribution/rollover -- rather than like the transfer they themselves just processed from Vanguard->Ascensus. Frustrating, worrying.

Just throwing this idea out there. But if there are enough people wanting to move from Ascensus to Fidelity, Schwab or E*TRADE and having to do it on their own and unsure how it should be done correctly, maybe there could be a crowdfunding to pay the fees for one person to get it done properly with an attorney and then share the details of how the forms were all filled out with the others (obviously removing any personally identifying information).

[GoldenBear17]

I’m hoping to do the same, not happy with Ascensus so far, wishing I had just started with Fidelity earlier this year, but I had no idea Vanguard would do this to us.

I figured I’d contact Fidelity and see if they can help streamline the process, but not sure they can do much to help.

I’m also allowing some time to pass. I assume Ascensus has a ton of issues with all the new Vanguard accounts, hoping if I wait a few months things will settle down and support will be more reliable and helpful. I’ve got it figured out enough to make it function for a short time anyway.

It's been nothing but trouble for me dealing with the Ascensus features since the move. However, I did have one ray of sunshine for the first time. Up until just the other day, they would only let you exchange investments in the accounts using %'s. This didn't work for me since I like to DCA specific amounts. I couldn't believe they had no way to simply move a certain amount of money from one fund to another When I called a week or so ago, I complained to a rep about this. So I go in the other day to do an exchange resigned that I'll have to try to figure out how to use the %'s to get as close to what I want to do as I can. And what do you know. In that short time, they had added a link to exchange based on dollar amount. Never thought I'd live to see the day. So maybe they are listening and upgrading things at least a little.

[GoldenBear17]

UPDATE

I finished moving from Ascensus to Fidelity using Ascensus' horrible online system. Despite Ascensus cutting the check as if it were a distribution/rollover, Fidelity coded the deposit as a Transfer of Assets.

A quick summary:

• While I did terminate myself as an employee, I was VERY careful not to select anything indicating that I was terminating the Ascensus plan.

• When I opened the Fidelity SE 401k, I kept the plan name and plan number the same.

• My Fidelity application included an Adoption Agreement with a checkbox for "Amendment and Restatement from another plan".

• I also included a Fidelity ToA form; they were able to process it but needed the check from Ascensus to complete the transfer. Normally Fidelity could do the ToA electronically, but it was Ascensus' paper check process that got in the way.

• I requested the check from Ascensus in the evening and got my check in the mail 6 days later on a Monday.

• Up until now, everything was done electronically, but I did have to print, sign, and scan the Fidelity application form using my phone.

• I took the check to a local Fidelity office to make the deposit in person. I spent at least 30 minutes talking to their Retirements people, so I feel like I got this done as best as possible given how everything seems very dodgy on the Ascensus side.

• Fidelity warned that if Ascensus sends a 1099 describing this as a termination distribution, I will need to counter it as a rollover, but that may cause complications because of the successor rule (it's not rolling into a new plan). This is why everyone keeps saying we shouldn't get a 1099 for a transfer. We may have to wait and see. Maybe Ascensus is just saying we'll get a 1099 but they won't actually issue them?

• I'm really impressed with the quality of service from Fidelity, both in person and on the phone. Even on the phone, they were able to look up my paperwork and answer my questions every step of the way. It makes me feel that much better having my account with them instead of Ascensus.

I saw someone earlier mentioned depositing their Ascensus check via mobile app, but I didn't see a way to do that without putting it down as a 2023/2024 contribution, which I did NOT want to do.

I see the recent update about MySolo401ks instructions. I already had my transfer in process before that was posted. But the instructions say to email the completed form to Ascensus. I recommend investigating that further because sending a document containing your SSN via regular email is NOT a secure way to send that kind of info.

Thank you SO much for sharing your experience. It's reassuring to hear Fidelity coded this as Transfer of Assets.

I still think Ascensus is messing up our plan on their end. Are *they* coding is as "transfer of assets"? Nope, seems they'll be coding it as distribution. Is the darn Ascensus account even going to be closed after it's zeroed out? Or are they going to consider this simply a distribution of the participant's but as far as they're concerned our business's Solo 401K is still open & active at Ascensus, leaving us with two simultaneously-open Solo 401Ks?

Clicking the "enployee terminated" box in Ascensus's employer portal is definitely wrong (not your fault!). The reason it works is b/c they treating it as a distribution & the only way the Solo 401K plan document allows a distribution is if the employee is terminated, the plan is terminated, or you're 59.5.

I still don't like using the "in-service distribution" form MySolo401K recommends, since we're not distributing any funds whatsoever -- the funds are not supposed to leave the plan, we're just changing where they live. At least it gives us a spot to write down "restatement to 3rd party TPA" or "amendment to new custodian", to use in a future IRS fight.

Ascensus is refusing to provide us a method to NOT do any type of distribution whatsoever but rather transfer the assets to our new custodian... to do the exact same thing they just did from Vanguard.

Thank you also for sharing that Fidelity agrees a 1099-R should *not* be issued and that it's a problem if one is. I hope MySolo401K updates their 8/12 post to better address this; they say, "Ascensus shouldn't but might issue a 1099-R; if they do it's okay as long as G is in Box 7 (direct rollover to a qualified plan)". But it's not possible to do a direct rollover from one qualified Solo 401K to another qualified Solo 401K: direct rollovers must happen within 60 days, but Solo 401Ks must have a 12-month gap between them or else they're not qualified. That's why these funds moving isn't supposed to be a distribution at all. We're not rolling over funds into a new plan: they're (supposed to be) staying in the same plan the entire time.

-It would be interesting to see how Ascensus handles it if someone over 59.5 tries to transfer out. Would they then not require the employee be terminated? That might prove they really are treating it like a distribution and following those rules.

-Has anyone tried not calling the typical Ascensus support and rather trying to call someone in their corporate offices? It seems like the issues being raised here are way beyond the pay grade of the support reps and probably need to be run by someone much higher up at Ascensus.

-You should contact MySolo401k and ask them any of these questions you have and see if they agree and/or update that article. I believe they are responsive to emails and posts on their forum. They also do Q and A sessions and have a place you can schedule a call with someone there. Plenty of ability to communicate directly with them and report back here what they say.

-I wonder if there is any outside party with the government or some regulatory agency that could be contacted and told these problems with how Ascensus is handling these amendment/restatements (or not handling them). This is going to create confusion for us and possibly for the IRS. So maybe they would put some pressure on Ascensus to reform this madness or on the IRS to clarify how we should handle a situation like this.

[GoldenBear17]

Has anyone received your "Plan document with an updated and revised trust and service agreement for signature", from Ascensus?

I just re-read the paper letter Vanguard mailed in April. It says:

"Your account at Ascensus will be governed by the same Plan document but with an updated and revised trust and service agreement. A signature-ready version will be provided to you after the transition."

Just logged into my employER portal and there's nothing there (tried searching everywhere, including Home->Information->Forms).

Also noticed my Plan ID # is different than it was in Vanguard. When a Solo 401K moves from one home to another, isn't the plan ID supposed to stay the same but maybe add -001 to end? In Vanguard it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan Name: My Sole Proprietorship Solo 401K" and "Plan ID 12312312" but in Ascensus it says (I'm putting a fake number here) "Plan: MY SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP SOLO 401K (456789)". Even the number of digits is different (6 at Ascensus, 8 at Vanguard).

UPDATE: I see Ascensus's "welcome page" FAQs notes our Plan ID # will change with the move. So..... for those of us transferring our plan to Fidelity/Schwab, I assume we put the Ascensus Plan ID # on the Fidelity/Schawb paperwork, not the Vanguard Plan ID #? Do we still add -001 to the end to indicate we're not establishing a new plan but simply transfering an existing one?

Ascensus is showing the original "employee eligibility date" of 1/1/2019, when I originally opened the Solo 401K at Vanguard, so that's good at least.

I've also been wondering where the updated and revised trust and service agreement is. I haven't seen one still.

I also saw how they changed the Plan ID # and have been worried about that and why they did it. I assume we just have to stay with the one Ascensus has on it from now on.

[mountaineer2]

For the people that successfully transferred from Ascensus to (Fidelity/etc.), did the rollover check contain the full amount of the account or did they remove the minimum 20% federal withholding tax from the check? It looks like any distribution (termination, in-service) from Ascensus, even a rollover, implies the 20% withholding for federal taxes.

[xelda]

For the people that successfully transferred from Ascensus to (Fidelity/etc.), did the rollover check contain the full amount of the account or did they remove the minimum 20% federal withholding tax from the check? It looks like any distribution (termination, in-service) from Ascensus, even a rollover, implies the 20% withholding for federal taxes.

My check contained the full amount on the account. I selected "100% Rollover" when I submitted the request on Ascensus.
I had the check made payable to "FMTC FBO my name" according to Fidelity's instructions.

I found it interesting that Ascensus didn't take out the $25 distribution fee they said I'd be charged. Just one more thing they got wrong on the phone.
I also found it interesting that Ascensus lets you go back in and remove the terminated status on the employee.

[DrivenToSuces$]

For the people that successfully transferred from Ascensus to (Fidelity/etc.), did the rollover check contain the full amount of the account or did they remove the minimum 20% federal withholding tax from the check? It looks like any distribution (termination, in-service) from Ascensus, even a rollover, implies the 20% withholding for federal taxes.

My check contained the full amount on the account. I selected "100% Rollover" when I submitted the request on Ascensus.
I had the check made payable to "FMTC FBO my name" according to Fidelity's instructions.

I found it interesting that Ascensus didn't take out the $25 distribution fee they said I'd be charged. Just one more thing they got wrong on the phone.
I also found it interesting that Ascensus lets you go back in and remove the terminated status on the employee.

They're not going to charge the $25 exit fee until after Jan. 1st 2025.

A rep on the phone told me the annual fee ($20 per participant + $20 per each fund you have, i.e. $80 if you have a 3-fund portfolio) won't be charged until November, but who knows how true that is.

Btw just found out something else that flew under my radar: Vanguard announced it now charges $100 exit fee starting July 1st. I have four accounts with them and not happy to pay $400 to leave, but I guess Fidelity or others would reimburse me if I moved to them.

[GoldenBear17]

For the people that successfully transferred from Ascensus to (Fidelity/etc.), did the rollover check contain the full amount of the account or did they remove the minimum 20% federal withholding tax from the check? It looks like any distribution (termination, in-service) from Ascensus, even a rollover, implies the 20% withholding for federal taxes.

My check contained the full amount on the account. I selected "100% Rollover" when I submitted the request on Ascensus.
I had the check made payable to "FMTC FBO my name" according to Fidelity's instructions.

I found it interesting that Ascensus didn't take out the $25 distribution fee they said I'd be charged. Just one more thing they got wrong on the phone.
I also found it interesting that Ascensus lets you go back in and remove the terminated status on the employee.

They're not going to charge the $25 exit fee until after Jan. 1st 2025.

A rep on the phone told me the annual fee ($20 per participant + $20 per each fund you have, i.e. $80 if you have a 3-fund portfolio) won't be charged until November, but who knows how true that is.

Btw just found out something else that flew under my radar: Vanguard announced it now charges $100 exit fee starting July 1st. I have four accounts with them and not happy to pay $400 to leave, but I guess Fidelity or others would reimburse me if I moved to them.

I was told the same on the fees - no $25 exit fee until January and no $20 participant/per fund fees until November.

Yeah the new Vanguard fees, including the exit fee, was another kerfuffle a while ago. There is a thread on here about those somewhere. But yes most people say other firms will probably reimburse you if you move to them.

[Infomom2]

Still reading and trying to figure out how to get my solo 401K from Ascensus to Fidelity. Looks like we got some more helpful info, but still dont know if Ascensus is coding things right, etc. I absolutely cannot have this recorded as a taxable event. I am sure I am not the only one, but I have FAFSA/child's college and other factors as well. Does it make sense to try to talk to an accountant or do we already know everything we need to know...I share everyone's frustrations.

[GoldenBear17]

At https://dcs.ascensus.com/BNYMellonPershing/forms is a link to Ascensus' own "Individual 401(k) Plan Establishment Kit (Document Only)"

On page 5 of that form it says:
"If this is a restatement or amendment of an existing plan, use the same plan sequence number on the prior adoption agreement or most
recent Form 5500."

If you do a search for the terms "amendment" and/or "restatement", it mentions them many times.

Here is Ascensus' own instructions for transferring a SEP or Simple IRA to them.

https://mybusiness.ascensus.com/data/up ... rocess.pdf

It refers multiple times to "amending and restating".

I''m sure with more effort you could find even more of Ascensus' own documents referring to these terms

Clearly Ascensus knows about the amendment and restatement process when they are the ones amending and restating a plan from elsewhere. Yet when you want to amend and restate their plan somewhere else, they suddenly have no idea what you're talking about and talk about distributions and terminations.

I wonder what will happen if some of you call Ascensus and show them these terms in their own documents and tell them you want to do the exact same thing, just in the other direction to move from Ascensus to Fidelity, Schwab or E*TRADe.

[jgalt133]

-I wonder if there is any outside party with the government or some regulatory agency that could be contacted and told these problems with how Ascensus is handling these amendment/restatements (or not handling them). This is going to create confusion for us and possibly for the IRS. So maybe they would put some pressure on Ascensus to reform this madness or on the IRS to clarify how we should handle a situation like this.

Perhaps the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (https://www.consumerfinance.gov/)?

[DrivenToSuces$]

At https://dcs.ascensus.com/BNYMellonPershing/forms is a link to Ascensus' own "Individual 401(k) Plan Establishment Kit (Document Only)"

On page 5 of that form it says:
"If this is a restatement or amendment of an existing plan, use the same plan sequence number on the prior adoption agreement or most
recent Form 5500."

If you do a search for the terms "amendment" and/or "restatement", it mentions them many times.

Here is Ascensus' own instructions for transferring a SEP or Simple IRA to them.

https://mybusiness.ascensus.com/data/up ... rocess.pdf

It refers multiple times to "amending and restating".

I''m sure with more effort you could find even more of Ascensus' own documents referring to these terms

Clearly Ascensus knows about the amendment and restatement process when they are the ones amending and restating a plan from elsewhere. Yet when you want to amend and restate their plan somewhere else, they suddenly have no idea what you're talking about and talk about distributions and terminations.

I wonder what will happen if some of you call Ascensus and show them these terms in their own documents and tell them you want to do the exact same thing, just in the other direction to move from Ascensus to Fidelity, Schwab or E*TRADe.

They also clearly know the difference between a rollover/distrubution and a transfer:
https://thelink.ascensus.com/articles/2 ... ers-differ

[numberman]

With Vanguard if you wanted to submit a contribution via the small business / employer side login with the intention of having it processed today (same day) you simply had to do so before 4pm - even 3:59:59pm was fine.

I assumed this would be the case with the Ascensus employer side login as well, but that does not seem to be the case. I've submitted two contributions now via the employer account in the mid-afternoon with a contribution date of "today" expecting them to be processed "today", but both were processed the following day at the following day's price.

Do you remember more precisely what time you submitted this? I can try to make my next contribution at a certain time to try and narrow down a window (if there is any) of when contributions will likely be executed same day. My only contribution so far was after market close.

As a data point, yesterday (August 19th) I submitted a contribution just a few minutes after 12 noon Eastern time, and it seems to have processed that day. I got the August 19th price for VTSAX (134.25) and VTIAX (33.65). I encourage others to try out some times and report if the trade is made that day, if that's important to you. You can find the transaction details in the "Participant Transaction" report on the employER side, and maybe some other places.

I wonder if it matters if the contribution date is in the past vs the same day. I reported the contribution date as a few days in the past.

[LadyGeek]

valgen630's question has been moved back into a separate thread. See: Has anyone successfully moved their solo 401k from Ascensus

[DrivenToSuces$]

With Vanguard if you wanted to submit a contribution via the small business / employer side login with the intention of having it processed today (same day) you simply had to do so before 4pm - even 3:59:59pm was fine.

I assumed this would be the case with the Ascensus employer side login as well, but that does not seem to be the case. I've submitted two contributions now via the employer account in the mid-afternoon with a contribution date of "today" expecting them to be processed "today", but both were processed the following day at the following day's price.

Do you remember more precisely what time you submitted this? I can try to make my next contribution at a certain time to try and narrow down a window (if there is any) of when contributions will likely be executed same day. My only contribution so far was after market close.

As a data point, yesterday (August 19th) I submitted a contribution just a few minutes after 12 noon Eastern time, and it seems to have processed that day. I got the August 19th price for VTSAX (134.25) and VTIAX (33.65). I encourage others to try out some times and report if the trade is made that day, if that's important to you. You can find the transaction details in the "Participant Transaction" report on the employER side, and maybe some other places.

I wonder if it matters if the contribution date is in the past vs the same day. I reported the contribution date as a few days in the past.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. My big worry is what contribution date/year will be recorded for 2024 contributions made in Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr 2025. That said, technically aren't we as Plan Sponsors supposed to be in charge of keeping records of contribution dates anyway (regardless of what date/year the website says?).

[msj16]

When making a contribution one can toggle to a December 31st 2023 (under contribution date). One can also toggle to December 31st 2024. I believe that is how we make contributions in 2025 for the tax year of 2024. It would just be helpful of Ascensus clearly marked the contribution as for the previous tax year as Vanguard did. A few changes to their website to make it more consistent with Vanguard's previous solo 401K website would be very helpful. Maybe someone can suggest this in writing to Ascensus.

[DrivenToSuces$]

When making a contribution one can toggle to a December 31st 2023 (under contribution date). One can also toggle to December 31st 2024. I believe that is how we make contributions in 2025 for the tax year of 2024. It would just be helpful of Ascensus clearly marked the contribution as for the previous tax year as Vanguard did. A few changes to their website to make it more consistent with Vanguard's previous solo 401K website would be very helpful. Maybe someone can suggest this in writing to Ascensus.

But someone upthread mentioned they made a contribution on say, August 1st, Ascensus took a few days to process it, and the contribution date showed up as ~August 4th. So if we make a contribution on Jan 15th 2025, "toggling" Dec 31st 2024, is Ascensus still going to process it as a 2025 contribution?

[msj16]

DrivenToSucces$ - I agree we need 100% certainty on this issue. It would be great if we could get this in writing. But Ascensus knows they are taking on solo 401K folks from Vanguard. They must have a legitimate way to do this.

I did find this note in the Welcome to Ascensus Payroll Processing guide:

" TIP: To schedule a one-time contribution date outside of your normal payroll frequency, go to the one-time contribution date section at the end of the document.
A December 31, 2023 date has been already added for you to use if you need to make a 2023 contribution. If you do not need to make a 2023 contribution, please proceed by clicking Add Date and creating a new payroll date in the future."

[numberman]

I was sent some documents from Ascensus via docusign today; email subject was "Action Required: Ascensus Migration Package 123456".

It contains various fine print legalese details of the Ascensus transition, including stuff like fees and what duties Ascensus is responsible for, etc. It does not contain the Plan Document, but it does contain some amendments to the plan (SECURE/CARES stuff), and says "there are no other changes to your plan document at this time". So I suppose the original plan document from Vanguard is otherwise still the plan document to use.

It also contains the IRS Opinion Letter. The letter serial number (Q704157a), "date of submission" (12/31/2018), and case number are the same as Vanguard's, but it's not exactly the same letter (differences include: recipient, FFN, EIN, date).

The "action required" is because you're supposed to e-sign the thing agreeing to it, but it says you automatically agree if you don't do anything in 30 days. You're also supposed to provide a successor administrator/trustee for the plan if you die.

If you haven't seen this email, I assume it may just take time to get to everyone, but I just wanted to give people a heads up that you should see it soon.

[mountaineer2]

Update. I am attempting to move my i401k from Ascensus to Schwab because it supports Roth accounts. I followed previous instructions for setting up the i401K at Schwab. This took a while due to my mistake on the individual accounts forms and then my Roth account was not initially setup (and then two were created). Probably all my fault because I was on them each day about the issues or fixing my mistake over the phone (but not for my Roth account for some reason). At this point, I have a i401K plan at Schwab and account numbers for each desired account. My plan ID was incremented by one.

I then made the in-service distribution request to Ascensus. This was following the solo401k webpage previously mentioned. After about 2 weeks I got an email from ascensus indicating that this needed to be done via the distribution termination route. See email below.

Hello,
We have received the Inservice withdrawal form however if the plan is leaving Ascensus, please follow the following instructions.

This email is in response to your request to either terminate or transfer your Individual(k) plan. The process is outlined below.

You would need to go into your Employer site and at the top in the middle click
• Employee
• Select an Employee
• The following page click on your Name
• Then click Continue straight below
• Next you will need to click on Edit in the lower right
• Then the bottom of the second box set your termination date.

Then you will need to go to the Employee site and login and select My Account at the top and then on the right side Distribution - Termination.

Termination Process:

You will need to put in a Plan Termination Date via the Plan Sponsor Site, and then you will submit a Distribution/Termination via the Participant website.

Plan Sponsor Site - www.sponsorinsight.com

Participant Site - https://myaccount.ascensus.com/rplink > Withdraw > Distribution Termination - This will take you through to request a Direct Rollover, cash out, and or a Split Distribution where you are requesting some as cash and some as Rollover.

Thank you,

For the moment, I terminated the employees, but did not terminate the plan.

When doing the online distribution termination request, selected 100% rollover to a qualified retirement plan. I immediately ran into an issue and contacted customer support. The issue is that you specify the institution (which is put on the check with "FBO <your name>"), but you can only specify 1 account number. Since I have a i401K (IRA) account and a i401K Roth account, I need 2 account numbers specified, one for each check. That also made it unclear if the 2 amounts where going to be merged into 1 check (I really don't trust Ascensus right now). I was told a) I could not specify an account number (which might mean Schwab would not except it into the right account, since I have IRA, Rollover, and Roth accounts with them), or b) that I needed to use the IRA distribution option instead of qualified retirement plan. This allows specifying an account number for both the IRA (pre-tax) account and Roth account. The number of characters is limited for the financial name. I attempted, unsuccessfully, to specify the institution and my i401K plan name (just to be sure and avoid any issues later), but it didn't fit. I have made those online requests with expedited UPS delivery $30 charge (since I've already been working on this for over a month). Checks are sent to the participant, not the institution, so I'll be able to see if they are correct before sending them to Schwab.

Will update when I get the funds actually deposited into Schwab (yet another overnight mail package).

[xelda]

Update. I am attempting to move my i401k from Ascensus to Schwab because it supports Roth accounts. I followed previous instructions for setting up the i401K at Schwab. This took a while due to my mistake on the individual accounts forms and then my Roth account was not initially setup (and then two were created). Probably all my fault because I was on them each day about the issues or fixing my mistake over the phone (but not for my Roth account for some reason). At this point, I have a i401K plan at Schwab and account numbers for each desired account. My plan ID was incremented by one.

I then made the in-service distribution request to Ascensus. This was following the solo401k webpage previously mentioned. After about 2 weeks I got an email from ascensus indicating that this needed to be done via the distribution termination route. See email below.

Hello,
We have received the Inservice withdrawal form however if the plan is leaving Ascensus, please follow the following instructions.

This email is in response to your request to either terminate or transfer your Individual(k) plan. The process is outlined below.

You would need to go into your Employer site and at the top in the middle click
• Employee
• Select an Employee
• The following page click on your Name
• Then click Continue straight below
• Next you will need to click on Edit in the lower right
• Then the bottom of the second box set your termination date.

Then you will need to go to the Employee site and login and select My Account at the top and then on the right side Distribution - Termination.

Termination Process:

You will need to put in a Plan Termination Date via the Plan Sponsor Site, and then you will submit a Distribution/Termination via the Participant website.

Plan Sponsor Site - www.sponsorinsight.com

Participant Site - https://myaccount.ascensus.com/rplink > Withdraw > Distribution Termination - This will take you through to request a Direct Rollover, cash out, and or a Split Distribution where you are requesting some as cash and some as Rollover.

Thank you,

For the moment, I terminated the employees, but did not terminate the plan.

When doing the online distribution termination request, selected 100% rollover to a qualified retirement plan. I immediately ran into an issue and contacted customer support. The issue is that you specify the institution (which is put on the check with "FBO <your name>"), but you can only specify 1 account number. Since I have a i401K (IRA) account and a i401K Roth account, I need 2 account numbers specified, one for each check. That also made it unclear if the 2 amounts where going to be merged into 1 check (I really don't trust Ascensus right now). I was told a) I could not specify an account number (which might mean Schwab would not except it into the right account, since I have IRA, Rollover, and Roth accounts with them), or b) that I needed to use the IRA distribution option instead of qualified retirement plan. This allows specifying an account number for both the IRA (pre-tax) account and Roth account. The number of characters is limited for the financial name. I attempted, unsuccessfully, to specify the institution and my i401K plan name (just to be sure and avoid any issues later), but it didn't fit. I have made those online requests with expedited UPS delivery $30 charge (since I've already been working on this for over a month). Checks are sent to the participant, not the institution, so I'll be able to see if they are correct before sending them to Schwab.

Will update when I get the funds actually deposited into Schwab (yet another overnight mail package).

That's interesting. Following the instructions on MySolo401K
delayed the process for you by 2 weeks, and you STILL ended up having to do it the same way Ascensus has been instructing everyone (by terminating yourself as an employee).

The good thing is that you now have a paper trail proving this is how Ascensus told you to do it, and there was seemingly no other way.

[keyfort]

I was sent some documents from Ascensus via docusign today; email subject was "Action Required: Ascensus Migration Package 123456".

It contains various fine print legalese details of the Ascensus transition, including stuff like fees and what duties Ascensus is responsible for, etc. It does not contain the Plan Document, but it does contain some amendments to the plan (SECURE/CARES stuff), and says "there are no other changes to your plan document at this time". So I suppose the original plan document from Vanguard is otherwise still the plan document to use.

It also contains the IRS Opinion Letter. The letter serial number (Q704157a), "date of submission" (12/31/2018), and case number are the same as Vanguard's, but it's not exactly the same letter (differences include: recipient, FFN, EIN, date).

The "action required" is because you're supposed to e-sign the thing agreeing to it, but it says you automatically agree if you don't do anything in 30 days. You're also supposed to provide a successor administrator/trustee for the plan if you die.

If you haven't seen this email, I assume it may just take time to get to everyone, but I just wanted to give people a heads up that you should see it soon.

I was also emailed a Docusign for this. So if we do nothing, we've effectively signed it after 30 days it seems. Wording is vague but I guess our plan document is the same then other than these changes. So is this just a minor formality?

The only thing I'm concerned with is that Ascensus does everything in compliance, and also does not send out forms which didn't need to be sent out like 1099-R etc.

[bookgirl]

I spoke with Fidelity today and they gave me instructions on how to start the process to move from Ascensus. They stated they have already moved folks from Ascensus.

Does anyone have the email where you can request the transfer forms from Ascensus? I thought I saw it mentioned a while back.

Fidelity also told me that I can transfer the funds in-kind as the funds are available at Fidelity. But isn't that contrary to what Ascensus is telling people?

Fidelity told me that the plan number should have +1 added on when I open my new solo 401k with them. My Vanguard plan was 001. So is it 002 at Ascensus? Then, 003 when creating the new Fidelity 401k?

[HomeStretch]

… Fidelity told me that the plan number should have +1 added on when I open my new solo 401k with them. My Vanguard plan was 001. So is it 002 at Ascensus? Then, 003 when creating the new Fidelity 401k?

If Fidelity gave you the advice to change your plan # in connection with a plan amendment, ignore their bad advice. You are not the first person in this thread to report receiving this incorrect guidance.

Your plan # does not increase when you are amending your plan (rather than adopting a new plan) from one provider to another. If your plan # was 001 at Vanguard, it should remain at 001 when you amended it to Ascensus’s plan and when you again amend it to Fidelity’s plan.

When completing the Fidelity adoption agreement, be sure to check off you are amending your plan and use the same initial plan adoption date and sequence # as you used when you initially adopted the plan at Vanguard.

You would use 002 if you as the plan sponsor terminated a Solo 401k plan 001, waited the required one year and adopted a new Solo 401k plan 002 for the same business.

[CFM300]

At this point, I have a i401K plan at Schwab and account numbers for each desired account. My plan ID was incremented by one.

When moving a 401(k) plan and account from one provider to another, you want to amend the plan, not create a new one. An amended plan should have the same plan number as the original plan. Incrementing the plan number implies a new plan. You should contact Schwab and confirm that your paperwork indicated a plan amendment and get them to decrement your plan number by one.

See HomeStretch's post immediately above this one.

[bookgirl]

… Fidelity told me that the plan number should have +1 added on when I open my new solo 401k with them. My Vanguard plan was 001. So is it 002 at Ascensus? Then, 003 when creating the new Fidelity 401k?

If Fidelity gave you the advice to change your plan # in connection with a plan amendment, ignore their bad advice. You are not the first person in this thread to report receiving this incorrect guidance.

Your plan # does not increase when you are amending your plan (rather than adopting a new plan) from one provider to another. If your plan # was 001 at Vanguard, it should remain at 001 when you amended it to Ascensus’s plan and when you again amend it to Fidelity’s plan.

When completing the Fidelity adoption agreement, be sure to check off you are amending your plan and use the same initial plan adoption date and sequence # as you used when you initially adopted the plan at Vanguard.

You would use 002 if you as the plan sponsor terminated a Solo 401k plan 001, waited the required one year and adopted a new Solo 401k plan 002 for the same business.

Thank you. Fidelity is wrong about a number of things. They claimed I can transfer in-kind from Ascensus. Ascensus states they won't offer in-kind transfer till Jan. 2025. I've never been given my plan docs from Ascensus. But they did look at them and told me that the sequence number is 001 -- just like at Vanguard.

[GoldenBear17]

Ascensus states they won't offer in-kind transfer till Jan. 2025.

That's news. Starting in January, Ascensus will transfer in-kind?

Also I continue to be amazed at how reps at all of these companies can give out so much false information about these things where if we do them wrong we can get in so much trouble and there are no consequences for them. It seems like there should be a higher standard or some kind of ramifications for them just willy-nilly giving out so much incorrect information on such serious matters.

[bookgirl]

Ascensus states they won't offer in-kind transfer till Jan. 2025.

That's news. Starting in January, Ascensus will transfer in-kind?

Also I continue to be amazed at how reps at all of these companies can give out so much false information about these things where if we do them wrong we can get in so much trouble and there are no consequences for them. It seems like there should be a higher standard or some kind of ramifications for them just willy-nilly giving out so much incorrect information on such serious matters.

That is what the Ascensus rep claimed -- in-kind x-fers starting in Jan. 2025. Right now she said its 7-10 days to get the liquidation check. Or pay $35 for 2-3 day delivery. She also said I had 90 days from July 22 free of fees to move my account elsewhere. After that, and I think this has already been mentioned, it's a $20 annual fee and $20 for each fund.

I can't believe its been six weeks and I haven't been given the migration paperwork to docusign. I can't even view my Ascensus plan but Ascensus can.

[GoldenBear17]

Ascensus states they won't offer in-kind transfer till Jan. 2025.

That's news. Starting in January, Ascensus will transfer in-kind?

Also I continue to be amazed at how reps at all of these companies can give out so much false information about these things where if we do them wrong we can get in so much trouble and there are no consequences for them. It seems like there should be a higher standard or some kind of ramifications for them just willy-nilly giving out so much incorrect information on such serious matters.

That is what the Ascensus rep claimed -- in-kind x-fers starting in Jan. 2025. Right now she said its 7-10 days to get the liquidation check. Or pay $35 for 2-3 day delivery. She also said I had 90 days from July 22 free of fees to move my account elsewhere. After that, and I think this has already been mentioned, it's a $20 annual fee and $20 for each fund.

I can't believe its been six weeks and I haven't been given the migration paperwork to docusign. I can't even view my Ascensus plan but Ascensus can.

I got the email to docusign the migration paperwork the other day. Someone said we have 30 days to sign it or it just automatically goes into effect. If you plan to move your plan out of Ascensus as quickly as possible, do you plan to sign the paperwork before that or not sign it? I agree it's crazy that we can't even get a copy of our plan for our records still.

[bookgirl]

Ascensus states they won't offer in-kind transfer till Jan. 2025.

That's news. Starting in January, Ascensus will transfer in-kind?

Also I continue to be amazed at how reps at all of these companies can give out so much false information about these things where if we do them wrong we can get in so much trouble and there are no consequences for them. It seems like there should be a higher standard or some kind of ramifications for them just willy-nilly giving out so much incorrect information on such serious matters.

That is what the Ascensus rep claimed -- in-kind x-fers starting in Jan. 2025. Right now she said its 7-10 days to get the liquidation check. Or pay $35 for 2-3 day delivery. She also said I had 90 days from July 22 free of fees to move my account elsewhere. After that, and I think this has already been mentioned, it's a $20 annual fee and $20 for each fund.

I can't believe its been six weeks and I haven't been given the migration paperwork to docusign. I can't even view my Ascensus plan but Ascensus can.

I got the email to docusign the migration paperwork the other day. Someone said we have 30 days to sign it or it just automatically goes into effect. If you plan to move your plan out of Ascensus as quickly as possible, do you plan to sign the paperwork before that or not sign it? I agree it's crazy that we can't even get a copy of our plan for our records still.

Ascensus told me that I do not have to sign the paperwork to move to Fidelity. They had no ETA when they would even send the paperwork to be docusigned. So who knows how long I could be waiting for this paperwork? I find the whole thing really bizarre.

Can Ascensus legally refuse to give me a copy of my own plan? I asked for it and they said they could not give it to me.

[phage]

I want to move my small balance solo401k from Ascensus to fidelity. The twist is I am the spouse who contributed to a solo401k under a QJV for a few years. My wife is the main self-employed owner and started the solo401k for herself, she has since moved her balance to fidelity. I haven't had self-employed earning for a few years because I was not needed for sole prop and I got lazy and didn't do anything before Vanguard dumped this steam pile.
The total balance of both accounts in the plan is < $130,000 so we haven't filed any 5500s or anything yet.
My goal is to rollover my ($9k) balance to a rollover IRA at fidelity before the end of the year.
Can we just 'terminate' ME as an employee since I don't have self-employment income from that sole prop? Then I can do a direct rollover to an IRA at fidelity or even easier do a distribution from Ascensus and an indirect rollover to fidelity. I don't mind the 20% withholding since I can adjust my employment with withholding to compensate. Neither of us plan to contribute anymore and my wife will probably rollover her solo401k at fidelity to an IRA in 2025 at 59.5. We will then close it all out with a initial and final 5500.

What say your collected wisdom?

[numberman]

… Fidelity told me that the plan number should have +1 added on when I open my new solo 401k with them. My Vanguard plan was 001. So is it 002 at Ascensus? Then, 003 when creating the new Fidelity 401k?

If Fidelity gave you the advice to change your plan # in connection with a plan amendment, ignore their bad advice. You are not the first person in this thread to report receiving this incorrect guidance.

I wonder if it would help if people complained to Fidelity when they are told this. I assume everyone just ignores the customer service reps when they find out they've been given bad info, but it never gets fixed if nobody says anything. I understand if you don't want to bother with the hassle of trying to get them to figure out what you're even complaining about, but maybe it would help them stop spouting this nonsense.

I want to move my small balance solo401k from Ascensus to fidelity. The twist is I am the spouse who contributed to a solo401k under a QJV for a few years.

This doesn't sound like an Ascensus-specific issue, so you might make your own thread to get more responses from people that are more familiar with the details of solo 401k rules in general. But I'm not sure why your wife wants to delay closing the plan until 59.5? It seems like it would be simpler to just close down the whole plan now and get both of your assets out of it.

[numberman]

Can Ascensus legally refuse to give me a copy of my own plan? I asked for it and they said they could not give it to me.

I don't know, but if it helps, the migration paperwork that I and others have received suggests that the Plan Document from Vanguard is still in effect, with some minor amendments (SECURE/CARES stuff, adjustments for things like COVID-related hardship withdrawals, things like that). So if you haven't received anything that says there's a new plan document or tells you of any amendments, I would think your plan is still the same as it was before until you receive those.

[HomeStretch]

I want to move my small balance solo401k from Ascensus to fidelity. The twist is I am the spouse who contributed to a solo401k under a QJV for a few years. My wife is the main self-employed owner and started the solo401k for herself, she has since moved her balance to fidelity. I haven't had self-employed earning for a few years because I was not needed for sole prop and I got lazy and didn't do anything before Vanguard dumped this steam pile.
The total balance of both accounts in the plan is < $130,000 so we haven't filed any 5500s or anything yet. …

Are you saying this is a two-participant Solo 401k plan and that you and spouse each have your participant account at a different provider (Vanguard/Acensus for you and Fidelity for spouse)?

[bookgirl]

Can Ascensus legally refuse to give me a copy of my own plan? I asked for it and they said they could not give it to me.

I don't know, but if it helps, the migration paperwork that I and others have received suggests that the Plan Document from Vanguard is still in effect, with some minor amendments (SECURE/CARES stuff, adjustments for things like COVID-related hardship withdrawals, things like that). So if you haven't received anything that says there's a new plan document or tells you of any amendments, I would think your plan is still the same as it was before until you receive those.

I have received anything about a new plan document or amendments from Ascensus. But for the purpose of transferring to Fidelity I don't think it impacts anything does it -- not having the Ascensus plan docs? I have my Ascensus account number, which is required in the Ascensus Payout Request Form, and I think that is enough to get me out of there. Does anyone think I need wait for the official Ascensus plan docs before attempting to xfer out?

[phage]

I want to move my small balance solo401k from Ascensus to fidelity. The twist is I am the spouse who contributed to a solo401k under a QJV for a few years. My wife is the main self-employed owner and started the solo401k for herself, she has since moved her balance to fidelity. I haven't had self-employed earning for a few years because I was not needed for sole prop and I got lazy and didn't do anything before Vanguard dumped this steam pile.
The total balance of both accounts in the plan is < $130,000 so we haven't filed any 5500s or anything yet. …

Are you saying this is a two-participant Solo 401k plan and that you and spouse each have your participant account at a different provider (Vanguard/Acensus for you and Fidelity for spouse)?

Sorry for the confusing way I worded it. Yes it is a two participant plan: spouse at fidelity and me at Ascensus. My wife worked with fidelity to get hers moved over in 2023.

[HomeStretch]

I want to move my small balance solo401k from Ascensus to fidelity. The twist is I am the spouse who contributed to a solo401k under a QJV for a few years. My wife is the main self-employed owner and started the solo401k for herself, she has since moved her balance to fidelity. I haven't had self-employed earning for a few years because I was not needed for sole prop and I got lazy and didn't do anything before Vanguard dumped this steam pile.
The total balance of both accounts in the plan is < $130,000 so we haven't filed any 5500s or anything yet. …

Are you saying this is a two-participant Solo 401k plan and that you and spouse each have your participant account at a different provider (Vanguard/Acensus for you and Fidelity for spouse)?

Sorry for the confusing way I worded it. Yes it is a two participant plan: spouse at fidelity and me at Ascensus. My wife worked with fidelity to get hers moved over in 2023.

You have one plan with two participant accounts. They can’t be split and use different provider plans like you and your spouse are doing. You should amend it to your spouse’s Fidelity plan asap.

[keyfort]

Can Ascensus legally refuse to give me a copy of my own plan? I asked for it and they said they could not give it to me.

I don't know, but if it helps, the migration paperwork that I and others have received suggests that the Plan Document from Vanguard is still in effect, with some minor amendments (SECURE/CARES stuff, adjustments for things like COVID-related hardship withdrawals, things like that). So if you haven't received anything that says there's a new plan document or tells you of any amendments, I would think your plan is still the same as it was before until you receive those.

I received the Docusign request and paperwork and just looked at it. There's a form at the end which says "Designation of Successor Plan Administrator / Trustee". And it says I have to print, fill in, sign and email it back to their email address.

What am I supposed to put here? I am a sole proprietor and my i401k is just for me. Can I put my wife here? It also asks for my "Ascensus Client Number". I have no idea what that is.

Considering that the Docusign email said that if I don't sign the documents I will be deemed to have signed them after some time period anyway, I'm thinking about leaving this and forgetting about it. Everything to do with Ascensus is such a headache I'd prefer not to talk to them or look at anything until I'm ready to transfer out my account to a provider that isn't like Ascensus.

[DrivingFun]

I received the DocuSign email with the paperwork. I only really see my plan referenced by name. Although I do see on the agreement pages in the top right of the header it has my account number that I see when I log in to the Ascensus employer portal followed by SAIL, e.g. "1234456 - SAIL". I certainly don't see anything that would resemble "001". So ultimately I don't really know what the "Plan ID" is that some reference here.

[MadDwag]

Can Ascensus legally refuse to give me a copy of my own plan? I asked for it and they said they could not give it to me.

I don't know, but if it helps, the migration paperwork that I and others have received suggests that the Plan Document from Vanguard is still in effect, with some minor amendments (SECURE/CARES stuff, adjustments for things like COVID-related hardship withdrawals, things like that). So if you haven't received anything that says there's a new plan document or tells you of any amendments, I would think your plan is still the same as it was before until you receive those.

I received the Docusign request and paperwork and just looked at it. There's a form at the end which says "Designation of Successor Plan Administrator / Trustee". And it says I have to print, fill in, sign and email it back to their email address.

What am I supposed to put here? I am a sole proprietor and my i401k is just for me. Can I put my wife here? It also asks for my "Ascensus Client Number". I have no idea what that is.

Considering that the Docusign email said that if I don't sign the documents I will be deemed to have signed them after some time period anyway, I'm thinking about leaving this and forgetting about it. Everything to do with Ascensus is such a headache I'd prefer not to talk to them or look at anything until I'm ready to transfer out my account to a provider that isn't like Ascensus.

I'm hesitant to click a link in my email so I haven't opened that "migration package" link yet. When I went poking around the Ascensus website to see if I could find a link directly from them there, I went to the message center and found a message to "Visit Forms & Communications in the Company Details section for helpful information." Well, when I go to Company Details there's no Forms & Communications link; just a plan highlights page littered with gibberish and incorrect information.

I've been trying my hardest to give Ascensus some grace and some time to figure all this out, but the further along I get the less impressed I get by the day.