Schwab Pinnacle Status

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jeffyscott
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by jeffyscott »

skinnybuddha wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:47 am You can do the same thing in the Amex environment - just add the blue business plus (2% back on everything, no annual fee) to the Schwab Platinum. The Schwab Platinum is best used just for flights - it is mostly a coupon book/bundle of statuses combined together, but it also gets the investor bonus and lets you cash out MR points at 1.1 cents each.
Well, I'm not a business and I also don't like buying coupon books. Also don't business cards have less protection? In any case, why bother with the more limited acceptance of Amex, when there are perfectly fine 2% Visa or MC available?

I've not paid actual money for a flight since about 2010. With the 3 Citi cards, I can get 5% on groceries, 4% on gas, 3% on travel and restaurants, 2% on everything else. All with no fees and no hoops.
FedGuy
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by FedGuy »

I got the email as well and couldn't identify anything in there I didn't already receive, so I agree that this is largely a rebranding. I was slightly surprised that I didn't see my new status prominently displayed when I logged into my account.

I'm glad to see that others share my skepticism of the Schwab credit cards. I received a general "how are we doing?" survey from Schwab about a week ago, in which I offered a good but not great overall rating, which prompted a survey question about the one thing Schwab could do better. I pointed out that their credit cards need work, noting that it's embarrassing for them to offer a 1.5% credit card when 2% credit cards are widely available including through Fidelity. I also explained that the Bank of America Preferred Rewards program (and related credit card benefits) is much more valuable, at least to me, than the Schwab Amex Platinum even though my assets at Bank of America are well under a tenth of my assets at Schwab. I doubt anything will come of it, but it felt good to have an opportunity to give them my thoughts.
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:54 am I got the email as well and couldn't identify anything in there I didn't already receive, so I agree that this is largely a rebranding. I was slightly surprised that I didn't see my new status prominently displayed when I logged into my account.

I'm glad to see that others share my skepticism of the Schwab credit cards. I received a general "how are we doing?" survey from Schwab about a week ago, in which I offered a good but not great overall rating, which prompted a survey question about the one thing Schwab could do better. I pointed out that their credit cards need work, noting that it's embarrassing for them to offer a 1.5% credit card when 2% credit cards are widely available including through Fidelity. I also explained that the Bank of America Preferred Rewards program (and related credit card benefits) is much more valuable, at least to me, than the Schwab Amex Platinum even though my assets at Bank of America are well under a tenth of my assets at Schwab. I doubt anything will come of it, but it felt good to have an opportunity to give them my thoughts.
It is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
mikejuss
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by mikejuss »

123 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:11 pm We've never found them to be of any significant value.
I've always wondered: what kinds of rewards do these high-status programs offer?
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
mikejuss
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by mikejuss »

adave wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:34 pm So at $10M at CS you get the AMEX Plat for free basically? To me, as a DIY type, that is a good deal and the only thing I would get.

Still a while to go to get to that $10M number however lol.
How is an American Express Platinum card different from any other credit card?
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
FedGuy
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by FedGuy »

student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:59 amIt is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
I had that card. It was a less competitive credit card environment back then, and Schwab's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee card was excellent at the time. I was very disappointed when Schwab got rid of it.

I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance. Bank of America/Merrill Lynch get a lot of interest, and assets, from Bogleheads because their credit cards are so good if you have $100,000 at BoA/ML. Plenty of us keep $100,000 there just for the credit cards (take a look at the lengthy "Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards" thread). I'd expect a similar Schwab program, possibly with higher asset tiers like the $1 million "Schwab Private Client Services" level they're now promoting, could help them attract and retain assets and thus make money for them.
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8foot7
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by 8foot7 »

mikejuss wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:08 am
adave wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:34 pm So at $10M at CS you get the AMEX Plat for free basically? To me, as a DIY type, that is a good deal and the only thing I would get.

Still a while to go to get to that $10M number however lol.
How is an American Express Platinum card different from any other credit card?
There are plenty of resources you can Google to answer they question.

For travelers it isn’t difficult at all to net out the $695 the Platinum costs. Even without taking advantage of all of the coupons.
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 am
student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:59 amIt is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
I had that card. It was a less competitive credit card environment back then, and Schwab's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee card was excellent at the time. I was very disappointed when Schwab got rid of it.

I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance. Bank of America/Merrill Lynch get a lot of interest, and assets, from Bogleheads because their credit cards are so good if you have $100,000 at BoA/ML. Plenty of us keep $100,000 there just for the credit cards (take a look at the lengthy "Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards" thread). I'd expect a similar Schwab program, possibly with higher asset tiers like the $1 million "Schwab Private Client Services" level they're now promoting, could help them attract and retain assets and thus make money for them.
I had that card too. I do BoA PR also.
tj
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by tj »

FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 am
student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:59 amIt is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
I had that card. It was a less competitive credit card environment back then, and Schwab's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee card was excellent at the time. I was very disappointed when Schwab got rid of it.

I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance. Bank of America/Merrill Lynch get a lot of interest, and assets, from Bogleheads because their credit cards are so good if you have $100,000 at BoA/ML. Plenty of us keep $100,000 there just for the credit cards (take a look at the lengthy "Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards" thread). I'd expect a similar Schwab program, possibly with higher asset tiers like the $1 million "Schwab Private Client Services" level they're now promoting, could help them attract and retain assets and thus make money for them.
I'm surprised BofA is still able to offer it and keep waiting for them to nerf it.😅 They can't be making that much $$$ off buy and hold 100k accounts, and nobody is consolidating all their holdings to Merrill edge.
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:38 am
FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 am
student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:59 amIt is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
I had that card. It was a less competitive credit card environment back then, and Schwab's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee card was excellent at the time. I was very disappointed when Schwab got rid of it.

I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance. Bank of America/Merrill Lynch get a lot of interest, and assets, from Bogleheads because their credit cards are so good if you have $100,000 at BoA/ML. Plenty of us keep $100,000 there just for the credit cards (take a look at the lengthy "Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards" thread). I'd expect a similar Schwab program, possibly with higher asset tiers like the $1 million "Schwab Private Client Services" level they're now promoting, could help them attract and retain assets and thus make money for them.
I'm surprised BofA is still able to offer it and keep waiting for them to nerf it.😅 They can't be making that much $$$ off buy and hold 100k accounts, and nobody is consolidating all their holdings to Merrill edge.
Don't jinx it. If they nerf it, we will blame you.... lol....
tj
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by tj »

student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:41 am
tj wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:38 am
FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 am
student wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:59 amIt is interesting that Schwab was one of the first places to offer a 2% back credit card. I assume that it lost money as they got rid of it. https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-2-ca ... -card.html https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/ https://obliviousinvestor.com/replacing ... edit-card/
I had that card. It was a less competitive credit card environment back then, and Schwab's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee card was excellent at the time. I was very disappointed when Schwab got rid of it.

I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance. Bank of America/Merrill Lynch get a lot of interest, and assets, from Bogleheads because their credit cards are so good if you have $100,000 at BoA/ML. Plenty of us keep $100,000 there just for the credit cards (take a look at the lengthy "Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards" thread). I'd expect a similar Schwab program, possibly with higher asset tiers like the $1 million "Schwab Private Client Services" level they're now promoting, could help them attract and retain assets and thus make money for them.
I'm surprised BofA is still able to offer it and keep waiting for them to nerf it.😅 They can't be making that much $$$ off buy and hold 100k accounts, and nobody is consolidating all their holdings to Merrill edge.
Don't jinx it. If they nerf it, we will blame you.... lol....
It's not my fault if it goes away. Milk it while you can.
afan
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by afan »

My travel does not match the restrictive terms of the Amex Platinum card. Airline credit but only for incidentals. Have to book through Amex to get the points. Single-vendor coupons. Crazy scheme for Uber credits...

If the Platinum card fits the way you travel, then it pays to have it. If it were almost free, then may as well get it. But put $10M in Schwab just for that? Tail wagging the dog.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
Lastrun
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Lastrun »

FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 am I think that Schwab could do very well with a generous cash back card tied to a high account balance.
I agree and quite frankly Fidelity should up their game as well for higher account balance customers.

Lets establish a real time baseline.
My daughter has a Wells Fargo Active Cash and Autograph combo

With this she gets:
2% cash back base spend
3% on Travel, Gas, Dining, Transit, Streaming and Phones (which also includes phone protection)
Both cash backs have no limits, rotations, etc.
She pays no fees (both cards) and no foreign transaction fees (Autograph Only)
She has no prior or current relationship with Wells Fargo.

So to me this is the base line where the issuer can still make money. So BofA is not that far above this and has a $100K requirement and a $95 fee for the Preferred Card.

I agree that Fidelity and Schwab should be able to offer a one card option (2% base, 3% travel and dining) similar to this for high account balance holders.
tj
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by tj »

afan wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:10 am My travel does not match the restrictive terms of the Amex Platinum card. Airline credit but only for incidentals. Have to book through Amex to get the points. Single-vendor coupons. Crazy scheme for Uber credits...

If the Platinum card fits the way you travel, then it pays to have it. If it were almost free, then may as well get it. But put $10M in Schwab just for that? Tail wagging the dog.

What's crazy about the Uber credits?
FedGuy
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by FedGuy »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:22 am
afan wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:10 am My travel does not match the restrictive terms of the Amex Platinum card. Airline credit but only for incidentals. Have to book through Amex to get the points. Single-vendor coupons. Crazy scheme for Uber credits...

If the Platinum card fits the way you travel, then it pays to have it. If it were almost free, then may as well get it. But put $10M in Schwab just for that? Tail wagging the dog.

What's crazy about the Uber credits?
I'm not the person who said the above and had to look up the Uber credits on the card, but I see that it's $15 in Uber credits per month plus an additional $20 in Uber credits in December (apparently on top of the normal $15 monthly credit, for a total of $35 in December). I admit that I've been in roughly three Ubers in my entirely life, so I'd value an Uber credit at $0 regardless, but that does seem to be a needlessly complicated way to do it.
afan
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by afan »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:22 am
afan wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:10 am My travel does not match the restrictive terms of the Amex Platinum card. Airline credit but only for incidentals. Have to book through Amex to get the points. Single-vendor coupons. Crazy scheme for Uber credits...

If the Platinum card fits the way you travel, then it pays to have it. If it were almost free, then may as well get it. But put $10M in Schwab just for that? Tail wagging the dog.

What's crazy about the Uber credits?
It is not "a $200 Uber credit."

It is $15/month plus an extra $20 in December. One could easily rack up large Uber bills on trips once or twice a year but only get $30 from the card.

A simple $200 annual credit would be much more valuable, which is why they do not do it that way.

Same as $50 every 6 months at Sacks. Worth it if you regularly shop at Sacks. If not, the money cannot be used for anything else.

I suppose you could buy something at Sacks and resell it on ebay. But how much hassle is someone with more than $10M willing to put up with to make $20, maybe after shipping, lower price on the ebay sale and taxes?
Last edited by afan on Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

FedGuy wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:52 pm
tj wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:22 am
afan wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:10 am My travel does not match the restrictive terms of the Amex Platinum card. Airline credit but only for incidentals. Have to book through Amex to get the points. Single-vendor coupons. Crazy scheme for Uber credits...

If the Platinum card fits the way you travel, then it pays to have it. If it were almost free, then may as well get it. But put $10M in Schwab just for that? Tail wagging the dog.

What's crazy about the Uber credits?
I'm not the person who said the above and had to look up the Uber credits on the card, but I see that it's $15 in Uber credits per month plus an additional $20 in Uber credits in December (apparently on top of the normal $15 monthly credit, for a total of $35 in December). I admit that I've been in roughly three Ubers in my entirely life, so I'd value an Uber credit at $0 regardless, but that does seem to be a needlessly complicated way to do it.
Uber Eats also eligible and one can do pick up.
cheesepep
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by cheesepep »

I finally received the email myself and it does not seem to be anything that I would use. I might ask 1-2 basic questions in the future, but beyond that, nothing. Instead of the $200 or $1000 credit, which would be taxable, Schwab should just give their members a free Platinum card (not taxable, I believe) to the $10 million plus club. On top of that, Schwab should do something like BoA where you get more savings interest perks or credit card points perk the higher your balance is. As it currently stands, it is nothing and that is why everyone is auto enrolled because few would actually use these benefits.
afan
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by afan »

Again, fine if you would use the service, at $15/month. If you don't use Ubereats, then it is worthless.

Many of the benefits are like this. A discount on a health club, but only one specific chain. If there is not one convenient to you, or you could join a club that is cheaper even without a discount, then another useless benefit.

By comparison, the CSR benefit is $300 on travel costs, used any way you like.

For some people, their spending matches the Platinum benefits- they belong to an Equinox club anyway, the regularly shop at Sacks, they do most of their flying on one airline and routinely buy airline incidentals... For them, the Platinum is valuable.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
Kruser64
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Kruser64 »

I finally got the email. I also notice a new banner/link after I login on the web: "Schwab Private Client Services" is at the very top of every page.

In my case, I'm already a Robo client. I don't know what the Financial Consultant would do other than say "keep using the Robo, it's good."

For the virtual meetings I've had with the Robo human advisors (I have SIP premium), the 2 that I've interacted with so far have been excellent.

There certainly seems to be some overlap with the "Private Client Services" and the Robo. I wonder if there is advisor overlap and will Private Client Services also use the same software tools?
afan
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by afan »

Again, fine if you would use the service, at $15/month. If you don't use Ubereats, then it is worthless.

Many of the benefits are like this. A discount on a health club, but only one specific chain. If there is not one convenient to you, or you could join a club that is cheaper even without a discount, then another useless benefit.

By comparison, the CSR benefit is $300 on travel costs, used any way you like.

For some people, their spending matches the Platinum benefits- they belong to an Equinox club anyway, the regularly shop at Sacks, they do most of their flying on one airline and routinely buy airline incidentals... For them, the Platinum is valuable.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
frugal2themax
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by frugal2themax »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:10 am Here's what Schwab wants you to know about Pinnacle status:
https://www.schwab.com/private-client
You're quite wrong on this. "Pinnacle Team" and "Private Client" have nothing to do with each other. I'll never be "Private Client" because I'll never pay their fees, however, I have had access to the "Pinnacle Team" and their phone number anytime I need it for many years!
tj
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by tj »

frugal2themax wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:43 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:10 am Here's what Schwab wants you to know about Pinnacle status:
https://www.schwab.com/private-client
You're quite wrong on this. "Pinnacle Team" and "Private Client" have nothing to do with each other. I'll never be "Private Client" because I'll never pay their fees, however, I have had access to the "Pinnacle Team" and their phone number anytime I need it for many years!
Since you are the expert, what do you need to be part of the Pinnacle Club and what benefits do you have?
bikechuck
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by bikechuck »

MedSaver wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:13 pm I ask because some posts mentioned that with Pinnacle status, you could put Vanguard funds into Schwab for no fee.
When I moved to Schwab they offered me a lifetime waiver for fees for Vanguard funds. Never hurts to ask.
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Elric
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Elric »

I believe Schwab has done away with the term "Pinnacle." They now have Schwab Private Client Services for those with assets between $1M and $10M, and Schwab Private Wealth Services for those with $10M or more. Both have no associated fees.
"No man is free who must work for a living." (Illya Kuryakin)
afan
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by afan »

Has anyone used their complimentary services, like
Your Consultant can connect you with seasoned tax, trust, and estate planning professionals and former practicing attorneys for a complimentary conversation on how to grow and protect your legacy. You also get access to dedicated Estate and Equity Compensation Specialists, and trusted third-party professionals.
Was it worthwhile? Or just a way to convince you to hire these professionals, with the free consult being a marketing gambit?
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
bradinsky
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by bradinsky »

bikechuck wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:23 pm
MedSaver wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:13 pm I ask because some posts mentioned that with Pinnacle status, you could put Vanguard funds into Schwab for no fee.
When I moved to Schwab they offered me a lifetime waiver for fees for Vanguard funds. Never hurts to ask.
+1 Same here. Also Dodge & Cox.
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jeffyscott
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by jeffyscott »

bradinsky wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:28 pm
bikechuck wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:23 pm
MedSaver wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:13 pm I ask because some posts mentioned that with Pinnacle status, you could put Vanguard funds into Schwab for no fee.
When I moved to Schwab they offered me a lifetime waiver for fees for Vanguard funds. Never hurts to ask.
+1 Same here. Also Dodge & Cox.
and Fidelity
Mike83
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Mike83 »

If you are moving a sizable sum from another brokerage I would advise arranging it on a personal visit to a Schwab office. Find the locations on-line and review the staff bios to find a likely fit. Give the chosen one(s) a call and discuss your needs and wants. Lead with the amount, a general description of your financial goals, DIY or not. Then visit in person if the fit seems right. The rep will not bring up negotiable incentives unless you ask for them, and I would not lead with those questions. I had no problem getting future fees waved for my favorite brokerages, including Vanguard funds.

Although most of your future interactions will likely be web based, this personal contact will stay with you and be helpful when you have a question, or for a once year update. I have not experienced any pressure to use a paid planning advice, although I have explicitly stated that we do plan to do so at a future time when estate transfer needs professional management.
Almighty1
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Almighty1 »

student wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:13 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:52 pm Interesting. I'm at 3/4 of a million at Schwab. If I keep it below $1M, can I avoid being a Pineapple Status Client? I'm a Fidelity Private Client or whatever they call it and it simply means that when I call in, they say "Oh, you're a Private Client. Would you like me to transfer you to your personal representative?". My answer is always no because I have someone on the phone who will answer my questions. It's 10 at night and my personal rep is asleep so I'd have to leave them a voicemail or call the regular 800 number again.

If Schwab opened the appointment only office in Framingham near Shoppers World and gave out free ice cream cones on hot days like today, I'd go in. Maybe become a Pineapple Status Clownshoe.
You post is funny. My Fidelity statement says Private Client but I don't have a personal rep. There is no name in the statement. I don't even know why I got the status. I don't have $1m there. I don't even have $500k assuming 403b account doesn't count.
I just joined the site and was Schwab Private Client Services from July 2023 originally and as of 3 days ago, Schwab Private Wealth Services. I had not heard about Schwab Pinnacle either even though I had been with Schwab from 1995 and Fidelity from 1996.

I was a Fidelity Premium Services ($250K requirement) and later and currently a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client ($1M) where I initially had a assigned representative who later was replaced with another, both from the local San Francisco office but later on, the representative was removed from my profile so even now I do not have a representative as a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client. The local branch had been calling me every few months for the past 6 years and saying a consultant where the name changes wants to meet with me except I do not have the time to go waste to meet with them. LOL.

I visited the local Schwab branch and also asked on Schwab.com secured messages in 2020 if they had fee free programs based on assets and was told there was none other than the local branch had the financial consultant who assigned himself to my accounts for free and the only invitation I got was for during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2021 where every person that signed up was sent a box of Ethel M (high end Mars) sampling kit by FedEx and then everyone tasted the chocolates during a online event but nothing after that so the person getting the steak invitations lives at a good location.
Last edited by Almighty1 on Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Almighty1
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Almighty1 »

123 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:11 pm Most brokers offer various kinds of elevated service tiers to those with large holdings. We've never found them to be of any significant value. In fact one of the reasons we spread our accounts around is so that we are less likely to be targeted for marketing efforts. We try to fly "under the radar" whenever possible.
The other thing is asset protection since you can really only count on SIPC protection which is $250,000.00 in cash and $500,000 in securities which really should be all one should keep at each firm which is the same reason I have close to 100 accounts with different firms as you cannot count on the
extra protection which brokers like Schwab claims that is $600 Million Aggregate meaning total for all clients combined and not each individual client or account, as even 600 clients with $1M each will drain it and we all know Schwab has way more than 600 customers being a multi-trillion assets held company and if the financial institution was in financial trouble, do you think they would still be paying their insurance premiums to have the coverage in the first place?
Last edited by Almighty1 on Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:22 pm
student wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:13 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:52 pm Interesting. I'm at 3/4 of a million at Schwab. If I keep it below $1M, can I avoid being a Pineapple Status Client? I'm a Fidelity Private Client or whatever they call it and it simply means that when I call in, they say "Oh, you're a Private Client. Would you like me to transfer you to your personal representative?". My answer is always no because I have someone on the phone who will answer my questions. It's 10 at night and my personal rep is asleep so I'd have to leave them a voicemail or call the regular 800 number again.

If Schwab opened the appointment only office in Framingham near Shoppers World and gave out free ice cream cones on hot days like today, I'd go in. Maybe become a Pineapple Status Clownshoe.
You post is funny. My Fidelity statement says Private Client but I don't have a personal rep. There is no name in the statement. I don't even know why I got the status. I don't have $1m there. I don't even have $500k assuming 403b account doesn't count.
I just joined the site and was Schwab Private Client Services from July 2023 originally and as of 3 days ago, Schwab Private Wealth Services. I had not heard about Schwab Pinnacle either even though I had been with Schwab from 1995 and Fidelity from 1996. I was a Fidelity Premium Services ($250K requirement) and later and currently a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client ($1M) where I initially had a assigned representative who later was replaced with another, both from the local San Francisco office but later on, the representative was removed from my profile so even now I do not have a representative as a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client. The local branch had been calling me every few months for the past 6 years and saying a consultant where the name changes wants to meet with me except I do not have the time to go waste to meet with them. LOL.
Congratulations. According to Schwab, "Schwab clients who have $10M in qualifying household assets, including a retail account are automatically enrolled in Schwab Private Wealth Services."
Almighty1
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Almighty1 »

student wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:18 pm
Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:22 pm
student wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:13 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:52 pm Interesting. I'm at 3/4 of a million at Schwab. If I keep it below $1M, can I avoid being a Pineapple Status Client? I'm a Fidelity Private Client or whatever they call it and it simply means that when I call in, they say "Oh, you're a Private Client. Would you like me to transfer you to your personal representative?". My answer is always no because I have someone on the phone who will answer my questions. It's 10 at night and my personal rep is asleep so I'd have to leave them a voicemail or call the regular 800 number again.

If Schwab opened the appointment only office in Framingham near Shoppers World and gave out free ice cream cones on hot days like today, I'd go in. Maybe become a Pineapple Status Clownshoe.
You post is funny. My Fidelity statement says Private Client but I don't have a personal rep. There is no name in the statement. I don't even know why I got the status. I don't have $1m there. I don't even have $500k assuming 403b account doesn't count.
I just joined the site and was Schwab Private Client Services from July 2023 originally and as of 3 days ago, Schwab Private Wealth Services. I had not heard about Schwab Pinnacle either even though I had been with Schwab from 1995 and Fidelity from 1996. I was a Fidelity Premium Services ($250K requirement) and later and currently a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client ($1M) where I initially had a assigned representative who later was replaced with another, both from the local San Francisco office but later on, the representative was removed from my profile so even now I do not have a representative as a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client. The local branch had been calling me every few months for the past 6 years and saying a consultant where the name changes wants to meet with me except I do not have the time to go waste to meet with them. LOL.
Congratulations. According to Schwab, "Schwab clients who have $10M in qualifying household assets, including a retail account are automatically enrolled in Schwab Private Wealth Services."
Thanks but I wasn't automatically enrolled. I sent a secured message asking will I be automatically upgraded to Schwab Private Wealth Services from Schwab Private Client Services as I just went past the $10M mark and they responded with they will contact the SPWS team to have me enrolled and the next thing I know, the banner changed from SPCS to SPWS.
student
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by student »

Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:22 pm
student wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:18 pm
Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:22 pm
student wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:13 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:52 pm Interesting. I'm at 3/4 of a million at Schwab. If I keep it below $1M, can I avoid being a Pineapple Status Client? I'm a Fidelity Private Client or whatever they call it and it simply means that when I call in, they say "Oh, you're a Private Client. Would you like me to transfer you to your personal representative?". My answer is always no because I have someone on the phone who will answer my questions. It's 10 at night and my personal rep is asleep so I'd have to leave them a voicemail or call the regular 800 number again.

If Schwab opened the appointment only office in Framingham near Shoppers World and gave out free ice cream cones on hot days like today, I'd go in. Maybe become a Pineapple Status Clownshoe.
You post is funny. My Fidelity statement says Private Client but I don't have a personal rep. There is no name in the statement. I don't even know why I got the status. I don't have $1m there. I don't even have $500k assuming 403b account doesn't count.
I just joined the site and was Schwab Private Client Services from July 2023 originally and as of 3 days ago, Schwab Private Wealth Services. I had not heard about Schwab Pinnacle either even though I had been with Schwab from 1995 and Fidelity from 1996. I was a Fidelity Premium Services ($250K requirement) and later and currently a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client ($1M) where I initially had a assigned representative who later was replaced with another, both from the local San Francisco office but later on, the representative was removed from my profile so even now I do not have a representative as a Fidelity Private Client Services Group Client. The local branch had been calling me every few months for the past 6 years and saying a consultant where the name changes wants to meet with me except I do not have the time to go waste to meet with them. LOL.
Congratulations. According to Schwab, "Schwab clients who have $10M in qualifying household assets, including a retail account are automatically enrolled in Schwab Private Wealth Services."
Thanks but I wasn't automatically enrolled. I sent a secured message asking will I be automatically upgraded to Schwab Private Wealth Services from Schwab Private Client Services as I just went past the $10M mark and they responded with they will contact the SPWS team to have me enrolled and the next thing I know, the banner changed from SPCS to SPWS.
I see.
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jeffyscott
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by jeffyscott »

Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:12 pm The other thing is asset protection since you can really only count on SIPC protection which is $250,000.00 in cash and $500,000 in securities which really should be all one should keep at each firm which is the same reason I have close to 100 accounts with different firms as you cannot count on the
extra protection which brokers like Schwab claims that is $600 Million Aggregate meaning total for all clients combined and not each individual client or account, as even 600 clients with $1M each will drain it and we all know Schwab has way more than 600 customers being a multi-trillion assets held company and if the financial institution was in financial trouble, do you think they would still be paying their insurance premiums to have the coverage in the first place?
The financial institution having financial trouble should have no impact on the securities you hold there. Well, unless you think Schwab is going to steal your money to avoid their own bankruptcy or something.

"100 accounts with different firms" :!: :shock: , I don't think I'd want to deal with that but I'll never get close to needing $50 million in coverage. The $500K is per account type so if you have, say a Roth, TIRA, and taxable account at the same brokerage each is covered to $500K.

Rather than fraud by the brokerage, I'd be more concerned about potential fraud via account being hacked or whatever. And for that, you would need to review the firm's fraud guarantee. SIPC does not cover that. Though I guess with 100 accounts at different firms, you'd mitigate your losses via that route since each account/firm would hold only a small portion of assets.

BTW, the $500,000 protection includes the (up to) $250,000 protection for cash, it's not an additional $250K on top of the $500K.
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by soretired »

bradinsky wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:28 pm
bikechuck wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:23 pm
MedSaver wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:13 pm I ask because some posts mentioned that with Pinnacle status, you could put Vanguard funds into Schwab for no fee.
When I moved to Schwab they offered me a lifetime waiver for fees for Vanguard funds. Never hurts to ask.
+1 Same here. Also Dodge & Cox.
Last year we had high 6 figures with Schwab. I called my local rep. and asked if fees could be waived for purchasing Vanguard & Fidelity funds. He said "sure" and also included Dodge & Cox. Easy-peasy. No mention of "Pinnacle"
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Almighty1 »

jeffyscott wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:57 am
Almighty1 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:12 pm The other thing is asset protection since you can really only count on SIPC protection which is $250,000.00 in cash and $500,000 in securities which really should be all one should keep at each firm which is the same reason I have close to 100 accounts with different firms as you cannot count on the
extra protection which brokers like Schwab claims that is $600 Million Aggregate meaning total for all clients combined and not each individual client or account, as even 600 clients with $1M each will drain it and we all know Schwab has way more than 600 customers being a multi-trillion assets held company and if the financial institution was in financial trouble, do you think they would still be paying their insurance premiums to have the coverage in the first place?
The financial institution having financial trouble should have no impact on the securities you hold there. Well, unless you think Schwab is going to steal your money to avoid their own bankruptcy or something.

"100 accounts with different firms" :!: :shock: , I don't think I'd want to deal with that but I'll never get close to needing $50 million in coverage. The $500K is per account type so if you have, say a Roth, TIRA, and taxable account at the same brokerage each is covered to $500K.

Rather than fraud by the brokerage, I'd be more concerned about potential fraud via account being hacked or whatever. And for that, you would need to review the firm's fraud guarantee. SIPC does not cover that. Though I guess with 100 accounts at different firms, you'd mitigate your losses via that route since each account/firm would hold only a small portion of assets.

BTW, the $500,000 protection includes the (up to) $250,000 protection for cash, it's not an additional $250K on top of the $500K.
You are talking about two different things. I am talking about the Lloyds of London coverage, not the SIPC coverage which obviously, they will be covered for. I am talking about this part which Schwab no longer includes the full details like they did here:

"ADDITIONAL PROTECTION THROUGH LLOYD'S OF LONDON AND OTHER LONDON INSURERS

Additional brokerage insurance—in addition to SIPC protection—is provided to Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. accounts through underwriters in London. Schwab’s coverage with Lloyd's of London and other London insurers, combined with SIPC coverage, provides protection of securities and cash up to an aggregate of $600 million, and is limited to a combined return to any customer from a Trustee, SIPC, and London insurers of $150 million, including cash of up to $1,150,000. This additional protection becomes available in the event that SIPC limits are exhausted."

Notice it says aggregate of $600 Million which if I remember correctly is for all their customers combined and each individual customer can claim up to $150 Million and all those figures includes SIPC already. Obviously, Schwab does have customers with $150M or more but even at $150M, 4 accounts can take the entire $600 Million. So I was saying if they were in financial trouble which people will not know about until it becomes news, they would probably not pay their Lloyds of London premiums so you can only depend on the SIPC coverage. Well, all my accounts are standard brokerage accounts so there is one account type. So you are right that hacking is a bigger concern as there I believe Schwab, Fidelity and Merrill EDGE has Fraud Protection Guarantees but the problem is they will always find ways to release themselves of liability.

I mean there was a recent event not fraud but I had my Merrill EDGE Self-Directed Brokerage Cash Management Account linked to my Bank of America Debit Card. The Merrill Lynch CMA Debit Card did not work because their system blocked the transaction as many ATMs apparently lacked the Chip reader at BofA so I used the BofA Debit Card to transfer the money $800 from ML to BofA which always worked in the past and immediately shows up in the BofA account except this time it did not, this was on March 28, 2024. ML shows the transaction and the $800 is debited from the account so ML took 3-4 weeks before telling me to call their Cash Management Fraud and Claims department, the only thing is they closed the case because they said this is a BofA issue so they went to BofA and filed a claim on my behalf and the $800 did get temporary credited on the BofA side but BofA claims eventually said they reviewed my account history, account statements and cannot find the transaction so they are removing the $800 credit in 2 days from now. They basically claim the transaction does not exist but if it was in any of those, I wouldn't have the issue in the first place so if they can lose my $800, I would be more concerned with higher amounts.

Fidelity if you read it has better protection than Schwab does:
"Additional Coverage In addition to SIPC protection, Fidelity, through National Financial Service (NFS), provides its brokerage customers with additional “excess of SIPC” coverage from Lloyd’s of London together with other insurers.† The excess of SIPC coverage would only be used when SIPC coverage is exhausted. Like SIPC, excess of SIPC protection does not cover investment losses in customer accounts due to market fluctuation. It also does not cover other claims for losses incurred while broker-dealers remain in business. Total aggregate excess of SIPC coverage available through Fidelity’s excess of SIPC policy is $1 billion. Within Fidelity’s excess of SIPC coverage, there is no per customer dollar limit on coverage of securities, but there is a per customer limit of $1.9 million on coverage of cash awaiting investment. This is the maximum excess of SIPC protection currently available in the brokerage industry. Both SIPC and excess of SIPC coverage is limited to securities held in brokerage positions, including mutual funds if held in your brokerage account and securities held in book entry form. Neither SIPC nor additional coverage protection covers investment losses due to market fluctuations."



I said I have 100 accounts, not each account is big as some have $0 in it and some have less than $2 in it. I have nearly 20 accounts at Schwab alone, 9 original Schwab Brokerage + the 9 corresponding Schwab High Yield Checking accounts for each of the Schwab accounts + the 2 TDAmeritrade accounts that just got converted with one being from Scottrade so about 75% of my money is at Schwab, 20% at Fidelity which is also another 10-20 accounts and the rest of it is at Merrill EDGE and Wells Fargo Advisors WellsTrade. Ofcourse I have been investing since 1992 and each account was opened with a different source of money and it's to prevent me from buying big if I put it all in one account and I can test different strategies in different accounts which is also the same reason my accounts can grow 53,000%. It's not that hard to manage thanks to Microsoft Money even though I manually copy the transactions to notepad first and then input it in.

So I was not talking about the SIPC Protection, if you look at many brokerages like Merrill, Fidelity, Schwab to name a few, they all buy insurance to cover anything over the SIPC protection which is where the higher risk is if you had over the SPIC protection since you really can't depend on it if Schwab did fail. Anything can fail regardless of the size as seen in the late 2000's.

I also used the wrong wording, I was trying to say it's not safe to put more than $500,000 of total assets at any one firm per account type so it includes the $250,000 cash obviously as I never said $750,000.

Also, there are two things I do not like about Schwab.

When there is a stock split, they will first sell your fractional shares before they do the split which results in a taxable event. Fidelity just splits it with the fractional shares.

For fractional shares, Schwab allows you to buy a minimum of $5 from I believe only S&P 500 stocks. Fidelity allows a $1.00 minimum on any security.
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jeffyscott
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by jeffyscott »

Almighty1 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:12 am You are talking about two different things. I am talking about the Lloyds of London coverage, not the SIPC coverage...
:confused

You said: you can really only count on SIPC protection which is $250,000.00 in cash and $500,000 in securities which really should be all one should keep at each firm which is the same reason I have close to 100 accounts...

But, in any case the additional protection is for the same things that SIPC covers and my point was that does not generally cover fraud via your account being hacked. Which I think is a far bigger risk than anything SIPC covers, such as Schwab, Fidelity, or Merrill going bankrupt and somehow not having your shares.

Under that law, SIPC protection is available only to customers of a member broker-dealer that is in liquidation...
https://www.sipc.org/for-investors/inve ... are-stolen

Well, all my accounts are standard brokerage accounts so there is one account type. So you are right that hacking is a bigger concern as there I believe Schwab, Fidelity and Merrill EDGE has Fraud Protection Guarantees but the problem is they will always find ways to release themselves of liability.
Right, so my comment about my perception of Schwab having a better fraud guarantee had nothing to do with the, essentially meaningless, extra coverage beyond SIPC. Instead it's about the terms of the Schwab security guarantee that they will cover losses in any of your Schwab accounts due to unauthorized activity. My preference for Schwab in that regard goes back to an article from 2018, that was discussed here:
viewtopic.php?p=4088769#p4088769

The differences were also discussed here: viewtopic.php?t=300725


Of course, I have had no actual experience with ever needing this fraud protection. However, my Schwab rep did call when I had initiated a small ACAT transfer. I know that he wasn't calling as a fraud prevention measure, but just to ask why and if there was anything Schwab could do to change my decision. But if there ever were a fraudulent ACAT transfer, that would be one way I would get an early notice and be able to prevent it's happening. I'd imagine other brokers might do the same (well, probably not Vanguard).

So I was not talking about the SIPC Protection, if you look at many brokerages like Merrill, Fidelity, Schwab to name a few, they all buy insurance to cover anything over the SIPC protection which is where the higher risk is if you had over the SPIC protection since you really can't depend on it if Schwab did fail. Anything can fail regardless of the size as seen in the late 2000's.
But, again, that's extra protection only for what SIPC covers, so unless you think Schwab or whoever is going to steal your money as they go bankrupt, the brokerage failing would have nothing to do with the securities that you hold there.

(For me, personally, the extra SIPC type coverage is particularly meaningless since each of our accounts is different and below or barely above the limits.)
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Billionaire »

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Almighty1
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Re: Schwab Pinnacle Status

Post by Almighty1 »

@jeffyscott:

Yes, I do agree with what you said and that for the fraud protection, there are always exclusions where they will not be liable as they will obviously find ways to blame it on the client so they are released from liability.

As for the Schwab rep calling, that has nothing to do with fraud protection but more they don't want to lose your assets to a competitor as a few weeks ago, my friend's mom has a joint account with me and I was the primary. The account had a little less than $2K and my friend being the son of the joint owner emailed Schwab and I guess Schwab would assume it was the joint owner so my Schwab rep and his team contacted me to try to provide me with the correct closing instructions. The son did contact me months before this happened so when I IMed him online, I was told that all they wanted was to remove their name from the account and I said that's not possible without closing down the account and moving the assets to a new account number which was what Schwab had confirmed and all that happened is the original account is zeroed out but not closed as I wanted to keep the account number as that was my first ever investment account that I added my friend's mom to later while the assets were in a new account.

It's no different than Chase on their business credit cards providing a Zero Liability Fraud Protection, they basically first credited and reversed the credit and I became liable for the unauthorized transactions 100% because they wanted me to prove I did not make the charges when it's supposed to be their job to prove I did so at the end, I lost $3K. Personal credit cards would be covered by AMEX/Visa/MasterCard/Discover.

Someone from Fidelity using their debit card loss $6K and neither Fidelity, the card issuer PNC Bank and the administrator of the debit card, BNY Mellon would assume liability so at the end, the person loss $6K even after going to the CFPB as they would all basically blame the other for the issue as seen here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fidelityinvest ... rmer_bank/

Although it's not proven if this is a legit issue or not since it's not hard for someone to make up a story to get people hating Fidelity as the thread has shown Fidelity losing existing customers with their assets and potential customers and their assets.

So as far as fraud protection, both Fidelity and Schwab are talking more about online login and activity and not things like ACAT since if someone did send in a ACAT transfer, they would first need access to your statements and it would be traceable as it would have a destination with account number it is going to and I know someone who did have that happened to them and what happened was the destination firm closed the account and returned all the assets back.

I am sure even Vanguard would do it since ACAT/DART transfers are not fast as it takes weeks if I remember correctly from experience and even if they did not call you, there would still be letters sent in the mail. I mean for both Schwab and Fidelity, if I move money even between accounts at the same firm, I would get a letter in the mail to inform me about it and if it's not legit to call them.

Well, the brokerage does since remember your securities are not owned by you as they would be in street name being Schwab in this case and you are really only the beneficial owner so first the securities has to be issued back to your name first which might be a long process. Schwab used to have futures trading with Lind-Waldock which was part of MFGlobal and MFGlobal did go bankrupt and I kept $1.00 there so the account didn't close and I did get the $1.00 back but it was sent like in $0.09 each time over 10 checks over a 3 year period. But even in that scenario, it was the bankruptcy court proceedings and not any form of insurance that paid. So it would probably take something really big before the SIPC Protection is even used as some other firm will probably acquire the customers and the securities first similar to banks failing, the chances of FDIC coverage needed is slim as someone will buy the bank for some cheap price like WaMu, ING Barings, SVB, First Republic Bank for example. Not sure with Lehman Brothers, if it even required the SIPC protection or not.

So just like what you said, only the SIPC protection matters and that's in the worse case scenario as the extra protection is meaningless since it's unlike the SIPC coverage, it's not per account and is the total for all customers, assuming they were paying so even if they were being fair with the $600M distribution, they can pay $600,000 to 1,000 clients or $60,000 to 10,000 clients or $6,000 to 100,000 clients. And in my case, my portfolio without touching it and this is long term, can already for the $ gained during that period would already be more than the SIPC coverage as it was only last week where I was 100K higher than the $10M for Schwab Private Wealth Client but I am already another 7% higher.

All I was really saying was that it's safer to keep no more than $500K per account type at each firm and then fraud issue is there regardless what firm it is as it may not be Schwab who steals your assets but could be employees as anything can happen. Unless someone monitors their accounts like a eagle, knowing about it might take more time than they allow you in their fraud protection guarantees as these legal terms and conditions are written by their legal department for their protection in reality and not the clients. I can tell you I don't even look at most my accounts in detail in real-time and update Microsoft Money except once a year and currently, I am still about 2 years behind.
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