Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

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ROIGuy
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by ROIGuy »

student wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:20 pm
Cyath wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:12 pm He doesn't promise, he says 11-12% with a combination of strategies may be possible. He has revised his estimates before when I have quizzed him on it. This year he initially said 10%, now 8%.
Joke: Don't ask him questions again, or he will drop it to 6%.
LOL!
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HomerJ
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by HomerJ »

Cyath wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:12 pm I haven't been that active on the forums, I also need to be certain of the information here, right?

He doesn't promise, he says 11-12% with a combination of strategies may be possible. He has revised his estimates before when I have quizzed him on it. This year he initially said 10%, now 8%.

The numbers quoted are with the wrap fee, as I said before.

I probably could do it alone but I wasn't that confident before. For those who did away with their FA, when do you feel that you can take the plunge?
You can have confidence that investing in a market index fund, you will get the market return.

It takes ZERO skill for you to achieve this. If the SP500 goes up 1% today, your fund will go up 1%. If the SP500 goes down 1%, your fund goes down 1%.

So if the SP500 averages 10% a year over the next 15 years, you'll get 10% a year over the next 15 years.

Now, if your FA's market-timing research team is awesome, maybe you can get more with them, but maybe you'll get less. Of course, they'll have to CONSISTENTLY get more than the SP500 average, plus their fee, to make it worthwhile.

How in the world do you verify the 70% number? Is that just this year? This has been a pretty good year for stocks in general. Do they have the same success over the past 10-20 years? Again, how can you possibly know if they are telling you the truth?

Studies have shown, that 90% of mutual funds trail the SP500 index over the long run. So, if all those mutual funds can't beat the index consistently, year after year, with their hundred million dollar PhD quant research teams, why do you think your FA's team can?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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HomerJ
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by HomerJ »

And even more importantly, there's really no need to "beat" the stock market.

So far, the long-term return of the stock market has been enough to make one rich.

And you can guarantee yourself that return very easily.

The big risk is short-term movements (so make sure only long-term money is in the stock market), and will the future repeat the past? No one can guarantee what the market will return over the next 10,20,30 years.

It's hard to "beat the market". It's possible, but it's hard. One is more likely to trail the market, especially if you add a 1% fee.

So far, just holding the index fund makes one rich.

Yes, if one could beat the market, one could be MORE rich, or rich quicker.

But, if one trails the market, one could be LESS rich, or NOT RICH AT ALL.

I'm pretty comfortable with the guaranteed market return that requires no work at all.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
tibbitts
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by tibbitts »

I'm surprised so many Bogleheads are commenting given that the thread is about investing in Singapore. While in theory the same concepts might apply anywhere, I know I'm not familiar with what mechanisms might be available (or not) to implement them in other countries.
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Stinky
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by Stinky »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:58 am I'm surprised so many Bogleheads are commenting given that the thread is about investing in Singapore. While in theory the same concepts might apply anywhere, I know I'm not familiar with what mechanisms might be available (or not) to implement them in other countries.
Yes. I just noticed the same thing myself. Original post mentions Singapore.

You beat me to this observation.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
mikejuss
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by mikejuss »

goblue100 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 6:40 pm Gambling other peoples money is a lot of fun.
It seems like this is exactly what managers of alternative investments do all day.
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
mikejuss
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by mikejuss »

Cyath wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:12 pm He doesn't promise, he says 11-12% with a combination of strategies may be possible. He has revised his estimates before when I have quizzed him on it. This year he initially said 10%, now 8%.
How about I tell you 20%, and you send me all of your bank-account information via PM? Because that's the equivalent of what this adviser is asking of you. Don't do it. :oops:
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
gavinsiu
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by gavinsiu »

Stinky wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:25 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:58 am I'm surprised so many Bogleheads are commenting given that the thread is about investing in Singapore. While in theory the same concepts might apply anywhere, I know I'm not familiar with what mechanisms might be available (or not) to implement them in other countries.
Yes. I just noticed the same thing myself. Original post mentions Singapore.

You beat me to this observation.
Yes, my impression that mechanics of investing isn't different in other countries, but their country return might be. Based on this, it appears that it's about half the return of USA.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankin ... et_return/

A 3 fund portfolio using USA funds might not be doable and may have currency risk. OP did mentioned that many investment books were too US oriented. What would you do differently if you are in other countires, buy a world index fund? Unlike the US, Singapore is smaller in terms of their size of the capital market.
monkeytoad
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by monkeytoad »

SevenBridgesRoad wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:42 am I had not heard of "Sentiment-based investing", so I did a bit of research.
There's also centiment-based investing, where the FA pays you back a cent on the dollar.
Just trying to stay the course
MathWizard
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by MathWizard »

Cyath wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:43 am I have been on the fence about ditching my FA and just doing it DIY with the Bogleheads approach for about a year now. Made lots of posts about it too.

However, I have been looking over the returns that my FA has generated. In lean years it's about 6% PA and good years 11.5%. Those are not bad numbers considering they factor in the cost of the FA, expense ratios and switches.

I have discussed my Bogleheads strategy with my FA and he says it's a good one. I've even more or less said that if I can do I'll just leave - he probably has tons of other clients so he doesn't really need me.

Most of the books I have read make out FAs to be some horrible spawn of evil that are taking you for a ride. I guess that is true for completely uneducated investors (I used to be one) Or maybe it's more true in the USA market - I am Singaporean and the market here is very strictly controlled.

Most recently he said that he could combine the buy and hold Bogleheads strategy with sentiment-based investing to generate 11-12% PA - having the FA on hand helps take advantage of things like Nvdia (which I wouldn't normally be aware of) This seems a little too good to be true?

I welcome advise and opinions.
The S&P 500 went up about 12.5% per year from 2010 to 2016.
See
https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/ ... dYear=2016

I paid 0.05% Expense Ratio. I didn't need a FA to do that.

My worst year was March 2008 to March 2009, down about 50% .
I doubt your FA did great over that time period, unless he was Michael Burry .

Overall, I have done quite well on my own.
RCL
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by RCL »

I don't remember reading where the OP mentioned what his asset allocation is.
Also the OP mentions either two or three funds, but don't say what they are.
The first obstacle is accepting market returns and not depending on long shot gambles on individual stocks as a success formula.
SevenBridgesRoad
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by SevenBridgesRoad »

monkeytoad wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 12:10 pm
SevenBridgesRoad wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:42 am I had not heard of "Sentiment-based investing", so I did a bit of research.
There's also centiment-based investing, where the FA pays you back a cent on the dollar.
So true. And that reminds me: there’s Centimeter-based investing. You give the FA a centimeter and he takes a kilometer.
hvaclorax
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by hvaclorax »

Stinky wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:04 pm
Cyath wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:43 am I have been on the fence about ditching my FA and just doing it DIY with the Bogleheads approach for about a year now.
Do you know what fees the FA is charging you?

Do you know the expense ratios of the funds he/she has invested you in, and how they compare to the fees of low cost funds that many Bogleheads prefer?

Are you confident that your advisor is providing excess returns that cover the fees and excess fund charges?
I’m not Warren Buffet so I can’t produce “excess returns.” Nor can my FA and I don’t expect her to. My point is that my FA still has value even if she merely achieves market
returns. The argument that the charges aren’t justified by the monetary results isn’t valid if all of the value of the FA advice is taken into account. Respectfully HVAC
BTW nobody can produce excess returns (over the long time needed to build up a healthy portfolio.)
Yvy
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by Yvy »

There are undoubtefully good financial advisors out there. It is finding them that can be teduous. Everyone journey is different. People not interested on managing their finances, those wanting an expert opinion, those who panic and can't stand the ups and downs of the financial market, those too busy or incapacitated to handle their finances do need good financial advisors. In general it is better to be invested than not...
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Cyath
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by Cyath »

Yes I did have some difficulty sorting through the USA specific advice. But I guess the general principles are sound?

I don't mind going through my asset allocation and other pertinent data, but the thread is kind of old at this point. PErhaps a new one?
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Miriam2
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by Miriam2 »

Cyath wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:58 am Let me try to give more information and answer the questions posed. Thanks for the help.

https://www.ifastcorp.com/ifastcorp/ - this is the group my FA is from. <<--- this is in Singapore

The returns include the wrap fee and the switching fees that come with rebalancing. I've asked.
Cyath wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:43 am I have been on the fence about ditching my FA and just doing it DIY with the Bogleheads approach for about a year now. Made lots of posts about it too.

However, I have been looking over the returns that my FA has generated. In lean years it's about 6% PA and good years 11.5%. Those are not bad numbers considering they factor in the cost of the FA, expense ratios and switches.

I have discussed my Bogleheads strategy with my FA and he says it's a good one. I've even more or less said that if I can do I'll just leave - he probably has tons of other clients so he doesn't really need me.

Most of the books I have read make out FAs to be some horrible spawn of evil that are taking you for a ride. I guess that is true for completely uneducated investors (I used to be one) Or maybe it's more true in the USA market - I am Singaporean and the market here is very strictly controlled.

Most recently he said that he could combine the buy and hold Bogleheads strategy with sentiment-based investing to generate 11-12% PA - having the FA on hand helps take advantage of things like Nvdia (which I wouldn't normally be aware of) This seems a little too good to be true?

I welcome advise and opinions.
Cyath - do you live in Singapore and does your financial advisor invest your money in Singapore?

If so, perhaps you could add this point to your thread title so international Bogleheads could chime in and help :happy
peterwantstosave
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by peterwantstosave »

"Your most important decision is selecting your asset allocation and sticking to it."

This is the right answer.

And to add: this group is my financial adviser, especially retiredjg, livesoft, and many, many others.
Happy at Fidelity: FNILX/FXAIX/BSPIX
Kendall
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

Post by Kendall »

This topic is now in the Non-US Investing subforum.
jg12345
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said.

Post by jg12345 »

peterwantstosave wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:11 am "Your most important decision is selecting your asset allocation and sticking to it."

This is the right answer.

And to add: this group is my financial adviser, especially retiredjg, livesoft, and many, many others.
+1

say about your allocation and objectives following pinned post, and ask here in another thread.

if, after that, you still want to hear from a FA, then make it a one-time fee-based FA for DIY investors.

Otherwise, you go with your own DIY strategy
Trying to stay the course
hvaclorax
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

Post by hvaclorax »

I didn’t read all the replies. Still I believe the usefulness of an FA depends upon whether you are accumulating or decumulating. The latter is a bit more complicated.
GaryA505
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

Post by GaryA505 »

hvaclorax wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:15 pm I didn’t read all the replies. Still I believe the usefulness of an FA depends upon whether you are accumulating or decumulating. The latter is a bit more complicated.
It's WAY more complicated.
Get most of it right and don't make any big mistakes. All else being equal, simpler is better. Simple is as simple does.
xxd091
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

Post by xxd091 »

There is no reason not to run your portfolio past a FA occasionally to reassure yourself you are on the right track-it’s a sensible action to take
I did this once or twice when I was starting out-it gave me confidence
In the U.K. a IFA (Independent Financial Advisor) is fiduciary responsible for mistakes he makes rather like Doctors and Medical Advice
He may want to do things differently but if your portfolio is OK he has to say so!
Are Singapore FAs as severely regulated?
You often get the first financial consultation free or if you have to pay use an advisor who charges an hourly rate
This be a way ahead for you as a compromise to full advisor use
At the very least even if you stick with your current advisor you are taking charge of your personal investing finances and are in a better position to monitor your portfolio and FAs performance
xxd091
oken
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Re: Are there actually any good financial advisers? Wondering about what my FA said. [Singapore]

Post by oken »

Disclaimer: I don't have a lot of knowledge of FAs in SG. But I am from SG.
Perhaps I have been drinking the Providend coolaid, but my understanding is that most FAs charge by AUM. Providend does not. Perhaps you could try them for a free consultation and see if that works for you.

My experience reading about Endowus also tells me that Trailer Fees (for Funds) are bad. Not sure about the rest of the world, but lots of Funds in SG still have trailer fees. (Trailer fees are basically where the fund takes your money and pays the broker to advertise their fund to you.)

I also understand that iFast is one of those brokers who charge trailer fees.

So, an FA who charges by AUM (and is thus incentivised to get me to invest as much as possible), working for a company who charges trailer fees (and is thus incentivised to get me to buy funds who pay them as much as possible).

Yeah, I'd try to find an independent fee-based FA and chk with that perhaps.
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