Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

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BashDash
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Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by BashDash »

Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
ucla-engineer
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by ucla-engineer »

Why not attach to the studs? If its a misalignment issue, you can put plywood or something else as an intermediary (i.e. the plywood gets secured to the studs and then the cabinets get secured to the plywood).
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by bobn60014 »

Do it right. Attach to studs or if none aligned correctly, open wall to install cabinet blocking.
Last edited by bobn60014 on Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bradpevans
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by bradpevans »

we used these to hang a 70" TV - very solid. TV came with a mounting arm so this may not directly apply in your case. But they are very strong, with 3 inches of metal pulled tight against the backside of the drywall

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOGGLER-2-Pack ... lsrc=aw.ds
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BashDash
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by BashDash »

Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
There are always studs. The drywall is screwed/nailed into something.
Bathroom plumbing walls do not always have standard studs at 16" o.c. They can be all over the place, especially if it was DIY, to accomodate the plumbing.
If DIY, they likely did not put metal nailing plates over the pipe and wire penetrations so beware you don't hit a pipe or wire.

Two horizontal full length cleats, 1x3. Screw into the vertical "studs" of that back wall. There is wood there if there is a wall.
Do not hit pipes and wires. Use a very small drill bit and feel around for what is wood and where it is. FInd them.
Then attach the 1x3 horizontally going from the outer side of each of your 24 inch wide cabinets. This way, you're not depending on just wherever a stud happens to land on the cabinet interior frame, which is not much.
You are going to use a drywall or deck screw (brass colored) that is as thick as the drywall (1/2") plus 1-1/2 inch penetration into solid wood. Add the thickness of your 1x3 (3/4) and that's a screw that is 3/4 + 1/2 + 1-1/2 (or at least 1-1/4). They sell 3 inch long brass colored screws at Home depot. Use those. If it has a hex star head and bit, all the better.
Predrill your holes on the 1/3 (clear fir or pine or what) or it will split when the screw head hits it. It is brittle wood.
Use the same screws, or 2 inch is fine or 2-1/4 philips wood screws to mount the cabs. Again, predrill or you'll split the wood.
Done.
Solid forever.

You can use metal butterfly anchors on drywall but they are very hard to get placement right, and you'll wrestle with working with the placement of the cabinets and holes in the cabinets for the anchors.
If you use "plug type" anchors, etc, they will pull out eventually and tear a big hole in the drywall. EZ anchors and Confabs? plastic type, also junk.

j :D
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by ucla-engineer »

bradpevans wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:36 pm we used these to hang a 70" TV - very solid. TV came with a mounting arm so this may not directly apply in your case. But they are very strong, with 3 inches of metal pulled tight against the backside of the drywall

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOGGLER-2-Pack ... lsrc=aw.ds
A 70" TV with mounting arm is likely <50lbs. Laundry room cabinets meant to be filled with bottles of detergent/bleach/etc. are likely to weigh many times more than the TV.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by popoki »

A strong magnet is useful for finding drywall screws that are attached to the studs.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by mhadden1 »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:50 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
There are always studs. The drywall is screwed/nailed into something.
Bathroom plumbing walls do not always have standard studs at 16" o.c. They can be all over the place, especially if it was DIY, to accomodate the plumbing.
If DIY, they likely did not put metal nailing plates over the pipe and wire penetrations so beware you don't hit a pipe or wire.

Two horizontal full length cleats, 1x3. Screw into the vertical "studs" of that back wall. There is wood there if there is a wall.
Do not hit pipes and wires. Use a very small drill bit and feel around for what is wood and where it is. FInd them.
Then attach the 1x3 horizontally going from the outer side of each of your 24 inch wide cabinets. This way, you're not depending on just wherever a stud happens to land on the cabinet interior frame, which is not much.
You are going to use a drywall or deck screw (brass colored) that is as thick as the drywall (1/2") plus 1-1/2 inch penetration into solid wood. Add the thickness of your 1x3 (3/4) and that's a screw that is 3/4 + 1/2 + 1-1/2 (or at least 1-1/4). They sell 3 inch long brass colored screws at Home depot. Use those. If it has a hex star head and bit, all the better.
Predrill your holes on the 1/3 (clear fir or pine or what) or it will split when the screw head hits it. It is brittle wood.
Use the same screws, or 2 inch is fine or 2-1/4 philips wood screws to mount the cabs. Again, predrill or you'll split the wood.
Done.
Solid forever.

You can use metal butterfly anchors on drywall but they are very hard to get placement right, and you'll wrestle with working with the placement of the cabinets and holes in the cabinets for the anchors.
If you use "plug type" anchors, etc, they will pull out eventually and tear a big hole in the drywall. EZ anchors and Confabs? plastic type, also junk.

j :D
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JoeNJ28
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by JoeNJ28 »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
Okay but that bathroom wall needs studs to hold the drywall in the bathroom up.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by CAsage »

There have to be studs. I find taking a small nail (not a finish nail, so you can pull it out again) and nailing it every bloody inch horizontally allows me to find solid wood. If you really don't have studs (wonder what is holding up the ceiling and floor above).... Then I would build some sort of support from the ground up - 2x4 up on the side corners, something across the back. Basically build a frame to take the weight of the cabinets and transfer it to the floor - then your little drywall anchors can keep it just from falling forward.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by investingdad »

Wooden cleat mounted with toggle bolts and large, flat washers?
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Abe »

As others have said, the drywall has to be attached to something so there has to be studs or something solid that the drywall is attached to. Get a rare earth magnet (very strong) and run it across the drywall until it hits metal (either a screw or nail). This will be where your stud is located. Then move over 16 or 24 inches and locate another stud. Once you have two studs located, you can attach the cabinet to them. If you can't attach the cabinet directly to the studs, you can attach a board to the studs and then attach the cabinet to the board.
Another way to find the studs:
CAsage wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:05 pm There have to be studs. I find taking a small nail (not a finish nail, so you can pull it out again) and nailing it every bloody inch horizontally allows me to find solid wood.
Slow and steady wins the race.
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anagram
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by anagram »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
If you think there are no studs I strongly recommend getting a builder to do this work.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by snackdog »

anagram wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:35 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
If you think there are no studs I strongly recommend getting a builder to do this work.
If there are no studs, start with taking down the well and framing it properly, haha.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by anagram »

snackdog wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:45 pm
anagram wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:35 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
If you think there are no studs I strongly recommend getting a builder to do this work.
If there are no studs, start with taking down the well and framing it properly, haha.
Now if he has a well involved, I suggest getting a geotechnical expert involved. :oops:
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by jabberwockOG »

Do not use drywall anchors - very dangerous. Cabinets can be extremely heavy when loaded with plates, bottles, etc.

If the cabinets will be hung together you will have 48 wide area to find studs and install blocking if necessary in the wall.

I'd open the drywall with a box cutter and drywall saw cutting an initial opening 36x12 in the drywall where the cabinets will go. Be careful since there may be 2 water lines and multiple electric cables in the wall.

Align the top edge of the opening to be about 1/2-1 inch under where the top line of cabinets will be installed. The opening will show you where studs are located and where plumbing and wires are located (add nail/screw plates if necessary).

If possible add some horizontal 2x4 blocking between the studs to provide additional surface to screw into cabinet. After blocking is installed, and the wall is marked for stud locations, cut a 36x12 piece of drywall and patch the opening. Tape and mud only needs one rough coat since the patch will be behind installed cabinets.

Secure cabinets to studs with 2.5 inch screws designed for hanging cabinets.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GRK-Fastene ... /203525221
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

jabberwockOG wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:12 pm Do not use drywall anchors - very dangerous. Cabinets can be extremely heavy when loaded with plates, bottles, etc.

If the cabinets will be hung together you will have 48 wide area to find studs and install blocking if necessary in the wall.

I'd open the drywall with a box cutter and drywall saw cutting an initial opening 36x12 in the drywall where the cabinets will go. Be careful since there may be 2 water lines and multiple electric cables in the wall.

Align the top edge of the opening to be about 1/2-1 inch under where the top line of cabinets will be installed. The opening will show you where studs are located and where plumbing and wires are located (add nail/screw plates if necessary).

If possible add some horizontal 2x4 blocking between the studs to provide additional surface to screw into cabinet. After blocking is installed, and the wall is marked for stud locations, cut a 36x12 piece of drywall and patch the opening. Tape and mud only needs one rough coat since the patch will be behind installed cabinets.

Secure cabinets to studs with 2.5 inch screws designed for hanging cabinets.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GRK-Fastene ... /203525221
48" plus wide working area.
This is a good way to install retrofit stud wall blocking. It is very strong and allows the cabinetry to be mounted flush to the wall vs on a ledger.

j :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by cheese_breath »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
There are studs. Get a stud finder from Home Depot or Lowes and find them.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by ReadyOrNot »

Free-standing low shelves or cabinets ( not high enough to require anchoring). I mean, how many shelves do you need for several months supply of detergent?
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by BashDash »

Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

delete
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by lazydavid »

popoki wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:17 pm A strong magnet is useful for finding drywall screws that are attached to the studs.
Yep. I used electronic stud finders for decades before discovering these convenient magnetic ones.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

lazydavid wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:16 am
popoki wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:17 pm A strong magnet is useful for finding drywall screws that are attached to the studs.
Yep. I used electronic stud finders for decades before discovering these convenient magnetic ones.
I've seen some amazing old timer carpenters layout the wall framing in a wall by tapping it with a knuckle (hand). It is fascinating to watch them do it by sound and feel.
(personally, it hurts my knuckles....)
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by investingdad »

Sandtrap wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:28 am
lazydavid wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:16 am
popoki wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:17 pm A strong magnet is useful for finding drywall screws that are attached to the studs.
Yep. I used electronic stud finders for decades before discovering these convenient magnetic ones.
I've seen some amazing old timer carpenters layout the wall framing in a wall by tapping it with a knuckle (hand). It is fascinating to watch them do it by sound and feel.
(personally, it hurts my knuckles....)
j🌺
Not that difficult to be honest. It’s hard to miss the feel of rapping against drywall with nothing behind it and drywall with studs behind it.

It does hurt after a bit…
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by cheese_breath »

Sandtrap wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:51 am
BashDash wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:19 am Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
do you have tools?
what kinds of tools?
drill, bits, countersink bit, cordless impact driver (a must for 3" deck screws, saw, tape, square, drywall keyhole saw, etc?
No point in going too far, always the assumption is that a DIY has all the tools needed or willing to buy them.

What is your budget?
Can you afford to buy 3-500 dollars in tools, an example, if you have nothing now?
Are you going to do more DIY projects so it would be worthwhile to buy the Dewalt cordless multi tool set?

consider hiring an excellent carpenter/handyman that is a "real one" vs a DIY starting out on a side business

j
Where did this 'side business' come from. All OP wants to do is hang two cabinets. He doesen't need $500 in tools to do that.

But I agree, considering OP's admitted lack of experience he'd probably do better hiring someone to do it. Then he could watch and learn how to do it right next time if he wants.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

cheese_breath wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:59 am
Sandtrap wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:51 am
BashDash wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:19 am Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
do you have tools?
what kinds of tools?
drill, bits, countersink bit, cordless impact driver (a must for 3" deck screws, saw, tape, square, drywall keyhole saw, etc?
No point in going too far, always the assumption is that a DIY has all the tools needed or willing to buy them.

What is your budget?
Can you afford to buy 3-500 dollars in tools, an example, if you have nothing now?
Are you going to do more DIY projects so it would be worthwhile to buy the Dewalt cordless multi tool set?

consider hiring an excellent carpenter/handyman that is a "real one" vs a DIY starting out on a side business

j
Where did this 'side business' come from. All OP wants to do is hang two cabinets. He doesen't need $500 in tools to do that.

But I agree, considering OP's admitted lack of experience he'd probably do better hiring someone to do it. Then he could watch and learn how to do it right next time if he wants.
just odd humor being helpful
j
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by cheese_breath »

Sandtrap wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:14 am
cheese_breath wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:59 am
Sandtrap wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:51 am
BashDash wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:19 am Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
do you have tools?
what kinds of tools?
drill, bits, countersink bit, cordless impact driver (a must for 3" deck screws, saw, tape, square, drywall keyhole saw, etc?
No point in going too far, always the assumption is that a DIY has all the tools needed or willing to buy them.

What is your budget?
Can you afford to buy 3-500 dollars in tools, an example, if you have nothing now?
Are you going to do more DIY projects so it would be worthwhile to buy the Dewalt cordless multi tool set?

consider hiring an excellent carpenter/handyman that is a "real one" vs a DIY starting out on a side business

j
Where did this 'side business' come from. All OP wants to do is hang two cabinets. He doesen't need $500 in tools to do that.

But I agree, considering OP's admitted lack of experience he'd probably do better hiring someone to do it. Then he could watch and learn how to do it right next time if he wants.
just odd humor being helpful
j
OK :D :thumbsup
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by apex84 »

There are different types of construction, one might have metal studs instead of wood studs. It's not likely in the basement of a single family home, but I wouldn't assume that all drywall is attached to wood studs. I'm mentioning this for completeness.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by anagram »

apex84 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:35 pm There are different types of construction, one might have metal studs instead of wood studs. It's not likely in the basement of a single family home, but I wouldn't assume that all drywall is attached to wood studs. I'm mentioning this for completeness.
I think the point is the drywall is attached to some studs as opposed to free floating. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by LotsaGray »

BashDash wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:19 am Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
Hire it done or even better find a friend or relative who you KNOW CAN DO IT WELL and have them teach you. Your posts here have me convinced this job is currently beyond what you should tackle.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by LotsaGray »

anagram wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:38 pm
apex84 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:35 pm There are different types of construction, one might have metal studs instead of wood studs. It's not likely in the basement of a single family home, but I wouldn't assume that all drywall is attached to wood studs. I'm mentioning this for completeness.
I think the point is the drywall is attached to some studs as opposed to free floating. :mrgreen:
And if there were truly no studs somehow, there would literally be no safe way to hang cabinets.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by anagram »

LotsaGray wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:55 pm
anagram wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:38 pm
apex84 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:35 pm There are different types of construction, one might have metal studs instead of wood studs. It's not likely in the basement of a single family home, but I wouldn't assume that all drywall is attached to wood studs. I'm mentioning this for completeness.
I think the point is the drywall is attached to some studs as opposed to free floating. :mrgreen:
And if there were truly no studs somehow, there would literally be no safe way to hang cabinets.
I think we all know that. :beer
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by cheese_breath »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
is there a doorway into the bathroom? (If not, how do you get into it? :happy )
How thick is it (excluding the trim)?
Subtract one inch (assuming 1/2 inch drywall was used).
That's the thickness of the studs.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by anagram »

cheese_breath wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 9:04 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
is there a doorway into the bathroom? (If not, how do you get into it? :happy )
How thick is it (excluding the trim)?
Subtract one inch (assuming 1/2 inch drywall was used).
That's the thickness of the studs.
I think the OP needs to come back and provide more information based on the advice he has received here.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by the_wiki »

Didn’t read the rest, but under no circumstances attach a cabinet with drywall anchors.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by bradpevans »

ucla-engineer wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:52 pm
bradpevans wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:36 pm we used these to hang a 70" TV - very solid. TV came with a mounting arm so this may not directly apply in your case. But they are very strong, with 3 inches of metal pulled tight against the backside of the drywall

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOGGLER-2-Pack ... lsrc=aw.ds
A 70" TV with mounting arm is likely <50lbs. Laundry room cabinets meant to be filled with bottles of detergent/bleach/etc. are likely to weigh many times more than the TV.
Read the link / mount 8 of them. It’ll hold
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by snic »

bradpevans wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:50 pm
ucla-engineer wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:52 pm
bradpevans wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:36 pm we used these to hang a 70" TV - very solid. TV came with a mounting arm so this may not directly apply in your case. But they are very strong, with 3 inches of metal pulled tight against the backside of the drywall

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOGGLER-2-Pack ... lsrc=aw.ds
A 70" TV with mounting arm is likely <50lbs. Laundry room cabinets meant to be filled with bottles of detergent/bleach/etc. are likely to weigh many times more than the TV.
Read the link / mount 8 of them. It’ll hold
I wouldn't trust them to hold up a cabinet, which could easily approach 265 lb or more when loaded with stuff. Drywall is not meant to carry loads like that. Do it right - find the studs and install new cross brace pieces between studs if the studs are not positioned right to mount the cabinet.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by lazydavid »

bradpevans wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:50 pm
ucla-engineer wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:52 pm
bradpevans wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:36 pm we used these to hang a 70" TV - very solid. TV came with a mounting arm so this may not directly apply in your case. But they are very strong, with 3 inches of metal pulled tight against the backside of the drywall

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOGGLER-2-Pack ... lsrc=aw.ds
A 70" TV with mounting arm is likely <50lbs. Laundry room cabinets meant to be filled with bottles of detergent/bleach/etc. are likely to weigh many times more than the TV.
Read the link / mount 8 of them. It’ll hold
It will until it doesn't. a 70" TV weighs between 50 and 70 lbs, and more importantly sits close to the wall. So the overwhelming majority of the forces on the drywall are shear (vertical), which is the direction that it has the most strength. Those anchors are rated for 66.5 lbs each, so using 8 of them for a TV mount results in a VERY healthy safety factor.

Contrast that with a cabinet, which empty will weigh between 50 and 100 lbs depending on construction. Roughly the same safety factor as the TV before you put anything in it. But the difference with a cabinet--ESPECIALLY in a laundry room--is that it enables you to store heavy things like detergent two feet away from the wall, using the cabinet as a lever with the fulcrum where the base of the cabinet meets the wall. That transmits significant lateral force to the upper anchors. The taller the cabinet, the more these forces are multiplied.

3/8" drywall is only 25% as strong in this direction as it is vertically (67 lbs, perhaps not so coincidentally), and 1/2" is about 35% as strong. So you're putting significantly more stress on the anchor, in the exact direction that the drywall is not effective at managing stress.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by quantAndHold »

BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
Is the wall some sort of old DIY project that was done incorrectly? If there are really no studs, then rip out the drywall and frame the wall properly. There is no safe way to do what you want without studs.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by quantAndHold »

BashDash wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:19 am Digesting all these helpful posts. I really need to reread as I am not a very handy individual. Appreciate the help!
I would recommend hiring a handyman. This isn’t a hard job, but it does involve being able to find the studs.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by cheese_breath »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:39 am
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:39 pm Unfortunately I don’t think there are studs…. Behind the laundry room is a bathroom that didn’t exist at one point in the basement.
Is the wall some sort of old DIY project that was done incorrectly? If there are really no studs, then rip out the drywall and frame the wall properly. There is no safe way to do what you want without studs.
On third thought, it is possible to construct a flimsy wall without studs; 2x4s attached to the basement floor and the joists above, and drywall attached to these only. I can't imagine anyone ever doing this, but it is possible. In that case, as quant says rip it out and start from scratch.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Fat Tails »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:50 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
There are always studs. The drywall is screwed/nailed into something.
Bathroom plumbing walls do not always have standard studs at 16" o.c. They can be all over the place, especially if it was DIY, to accomodate the plumbing.
If DIY, they likely did not put metal nailing plates over the pipe and wire penetrations so beware you don't hit a pipe or wire.

Two horizontal full length cleats, 1x3. Screw into the vertical "studs" of that back wall. There is wood there if there is a wall.
Do not hit pipes and wires. Use a very small drill bit and feel around for what is wood and where it is. FInd them.
Then attach the 1x3 horizontally going from the outer side of each of your 24 inch wide cabinets. This way, you're not depending on just wherever a stud happens to land on the cabinet interior frame, which is not much.
You are going to use a drywall or deck screw (brass colored) that is as thick as the drywall (1/2") plus 1-1/2 inch penetration into solid wood. Add the thickness of your 1x3 (3/4) and that's a screw that is 3/4 + 1/2 + 1-1/2 (or at least 1-1/4). They sell 3 inch long brass colored screws at Home depot. Use those. If it has a hex star head and bit, all the better.
Predrill your holes on the 1/3 (clear fir or pine or what) or it will split when the screw head hits it. It is brittle wood.
Use the same screws, or 2 inch is fine or 2-1/4 philips wood screws to mount the cabs. Again, predrill or you'll split the wood.
Done.
Solid forever.

You can use metal butterfly anchors on drywall but they are very hard to get placement right, and you'll wrestle with working with the placement of the cabinets and holes in the cabinets for the anchors.
If you use "plug type" anchors, etc, they will pull out eventually and tear a big hole in the drywall. EZ anchors and Confabs? plastic type, also junk.

j :D
Image
This or optionally one full lenth horizontal cleat with a 45 degree bevel (French cleat) on the top of the cleat. Mating cleat with opposite 45 degree bevel attached to top back of cabinets. Same thickness cleat with no bevel on the bottom back of cabinet so cabinet hangs straight. Cabinets can then be placed anywhere on the wall cleat and slid to the exact location you desire.

Makes hanging cabinets easy.

Like this:
https://sawdustgirl.com/how-to-hang-a-c ... nch-cleat/
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Sandtrap »

Fat Tails wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:46 am
Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:50 pm
BashDash wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:22 pm Hi!
Title says it all! Two 24 inch cabinets. My thought is to use heavy duty anchors on a four inch cleat and then just attach the cabinets. Am I over simplifying?

Thanks!
There are always studs. The drywall is screwed/nailed into something.
Bathroom plumbing walls do not always have standard studs at 16" o.c. They can be all over the place, especially if it was DIY, to accomodate the plumbing.
If DIY, they likely did not put metal nailing plates over the pipe and wire penetrations so beware you don't hit a pipe or wire.

Two horizontal full length cleats, 1x3. Screw into the vertical "studs" of that back wall. There is wood there if there is a wall.
Do not hit pipes and wires. Use a very small drill bit and feel around for what is wood and where it is. FInd them.
Then attach the 1x3 horizontally going from the outer side of each of your 24 inch wide cabinets. This way, you're not depending on just wherever a stud happens to land on the cabinet interior frame, which is not much.
You are going to use a drywall or deck screw (brass colored) that is as thick as the drywall (1/2") plus 1-1/2 inch penetration into solid wood. Add the thickness of your 1x3 (3/4) and that's a screw that is 3/4 + 1/2 + 1-1/2 (or at least 1-1/4). They sell 3 inch long brass colored screws at Home depot. Use those. If it has a hex star head and bit, all the better.
Predrill your holes on the 1/3 (clear fir or pine or what) or it will split when the screw head hits it. It is brittle wood.
Use the same screws, or 2 inch is fine or 2-1/4 philips wood screws to mount the cabs. Again, predrill or you'll split the wood.
Done.
Solid forever.

You can use metal butterfly anchors on drywall but they are very hard to get placement right, and you'll wrestle with working with the placement of the cabinets and holes in the cabinets for the anchors.
If you use "plug type" anchors, etc, they will pull out eventually and tear a big hole in the drywall. EZ anchors and Confabs? plastic type, also junk.

j :D
Image
This or optionally one full lenth horizontal cleat with a 45 degree bevel (French cleat) on the top of the cleat. Mating cleat with opposite 45 degree bevel attached to top back of cabinets. Same thickness cleat with no bevel on the bottom back of cabinet so cabinet hangs straight. Cabinets can then be placed anywhere on the wall cleat and slid to the exact location you desire.

Makes hanging cabinets easy.

Like this:
https://sawdustgirl.com/how-to-hang-a-c ... nch-cleat/
Yes. That's nice.
The "French Cleat" system is strong and works very well. Hardwood works better than soft woods and doesn't splinter through the table saw. Oak.
Full length if needed will pickup studs wherever they are and if the wall is not too strong, make the best of things and stiffen the whole wall up.
If oak, then countersinks are nice with plugs on the exposed lengths.
With hardwoods, countersink drill before putting screws as the heads won't sink into the wood.

Nice link
thanks for posting it.
j
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by Fat Tails »

Thanks for your additions Sandtrap.
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Re: Hanging laundry room cabinets no studs

Post by nisiprius »

This gadget seems to work for finding studs. So far it's the only stud finder I've ever used that actually works.

Image
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