How to react - laid off / outsourced

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Dfgdfg
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:46 pm

Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Dfgdfg »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
Up until a few years ago I was an outsourcing advisor helping clients with strategy, selection, contracting and transition. It is kind of an old fashioned deal to transfer the majority of workers, most don’t do this anymore. That being said, when the financials and the solution assumed rebadging the negotiated deal normally said the provider would hire approx X staff at a comparable pay and benefits package. There would also often be a clause for a lockup period where the provider couldn’t lay people off without cause. This lockup period was often 12-24 months. After that they could do what they want. Providers are often looking for qualified domestic staff and would redeploy rebadged staff to other accounts after the lockup. Working for a provider can be a better job or can be a short term job where they pay you to handle the transition of your job and are let go. All I can say is probe the provider to ascertain if they want you and to try to understand intent and the availability of opportunities within their firm for redeployment.

Good luck. Don’t react in anger and miss what could be at a minimum a good stop gap opportunity or at best your next long term position.

Also understand severance if you reject an offered position and/or if the provider lays you off in a relatively short period. All these are valid questions.
rockstar
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by rockstar »

I’d look for something else.
realclemsongrad
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by realclemsongrad »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
I went through some thing similar long time back. It was called rebadging. Large swaths of organization is sent this outsourcer who then issued offer letters. We had a choice of opting out of rebadging which was effectively taking a package. 90% took the rebadging route and some flourished in the new org. They are going from a fortune 100 company to outsourcer which gave them opportunity to work for different clients and domains. If they are forcing you to apply I would do so. For us none of the salaries were lower than what we were making except differences in benefits.
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Chv396
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Chv396 »

OP, I’ve gone through several of these in my career (now retired, but worked for nearly 30 years in technology.)
Each one is different and tough to go through. I learned from each one, different lessons, which helped me get through my corporate career and retire.

Personally, I would move on and not stick around. They terminated you, after all. They have no regard for you or your team, or they would not have done so.

It will take time (perhaps a week or a month, maybe longer) to process and get through this period in your life, but it will pass. Find something better, a firm that appreciates your contributions. Move on.
“Stay the Course” - My Portfolio (BND, VT, VXUS, VYM) Spouse’s Portfolio (VEA, VGSH, VOO, VOT)
tfalk
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by tfalk »

Start looking elsewhere immediately as a fall back and apply for your position with the new company. Do not lose site of one goal - do what is best for YOU, not THEM. Their corporate speak shows you that you are just a disposable asset to them, you owe them no loyalty.

Been there, done that, got layed off at 34.5 years with the same company. We found a way to make things work without me having to start over at half salary for someone else and 80 hour weeks.
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srt7
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by srt7 »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:25 am
So, "change" does not beget "catastrophe". It is just...."change".
It is our resistance to "change" that makes things feel catastrophic.

j :D
Beautifully said, Sandtrap! :sharebeer
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
srt7
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by srt7 »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
The highlighted in red above should tell you everything you need to know about the corporate world.

Way I'm seeing it is your company has figured out a way to execute RIF without paying severance or in to the unemployment insurance pool.

It's a sinking ship. I'd start looking elsewhere.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Firemenot
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Firemenot »

I’ve seen this situation when a company is purchased by another company and the deal is structured as an asset sale. Because it’s an asset sale the employees are not part of the transaction. Typically anyone with institutional knowledge or in-demand skills in the marketplace are offered new positions at the acquiring company.
gips
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by gips »

I know others have suggested talking to hr, I’d be reluctant or at the very least, realize that HR is protecting the company first and servicing you second. You won’t find out anything from hr that’s not public and your new company will communicate at what they feel is the right time.

Best,
gips
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by gips »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:25 am
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
1
For yourself and your "self", "respond logically and methodically after full research", rather than "react" which is clouded emotion filled with uncertainty.
2
Talk to HR, and whatever dept and whoever you need to at your current employer to find out "exactly", in detail, with "verifiable information" what is taking place, etc.
If you don't know enough, then there is "uncertainty".
3
If there is indeed a permanent "layoff/fired/etc" no matter the terminology, with a good possibility of having no employer at some point, then begin looking "now" for other career / job opportunities.
It does not hurt the present circumstances to "find out";
if you can find; fed/state/city comparable jobs
if you can find comparable jobs where you live
etc.
4
10 years from now, you might look at this point in your working career as something that happened and you went on to better jobs and higher pay and more rewarding endeavors.
So, "change" does not beget "catastrophe". It is just...."change".
It is our resistance to "change" that makes things feel catastrophic.

Best of luck.
Move forward.
j :D
Personally, as someone who was a senior director at big tech and a founder of a company, I’d suggest not talking to HR. They protect the company first and the employee second, they will not reveal any information that isn’t public and they will be assessing your willingness to stay and perform well at the current and future company. You will eventually have all the detail you need, so there’s almost no upside to this conversation but, there could be enormous downside.
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whodidntante
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by whodidntante »

They can use whatever words they want, but you need a job. If you liked your old one apply to similar roles at the new company and elsewhere.

A job search can take a while, and usually the higher the income the longer it might take. In addition to looking for a job, try to find part-time work. Ideally high paying and related to your career. But there are a lot of things you can do for money. It will help you understand there is life after layoff.

Don't panic with your investments. Take a breath and be deliberate with any changes you do make.
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Sandtrap
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Sandtrap »

gips wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:40 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:25 am
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
1
For yourself and your "self", "respond logically and methodically after full research", rather than "react" which is clouded emotion filled with uncertainty.
2
Talk to HR, and whatever dept and whoever you need to at your current employer to find out "exactly", in detail, with "verifiable information" what is taking place, etc.
If you don't know enough, then there is "uncertainty".
3
If there is indeed a permanent "layoff/fired/etc" no matter the terminology, with a good possibility of having no employer at some point, then begin looking "now" for other career / job opportunities.
It does not hurt the present circumstances to "find out";
if you can find; fed/state/city comparable jobs
if you can find comparable jobs where you live
etc.
4
10 years from now, you might look at this point in your working career as something that happened and you went on to better jobs and higher pay and more rewarding endeavors.
So, "change" does not beget "catastrophe". It is just...."change".
It is our resistance to "change" that makes things feel catastrophic.

Best of luck.
Move forward.
j :D
Personally, as someone who was a senior director at big tech and a founder of a company, I’d suggest not talking to HR. They protect the company first and the employee second, they will not reveal any information that isn’t public and they will be assessing your willingness to stay and perform well at the current and future company. You will eventually have all the detail you need, so there’s almost no upside to this conversation but, there could be enormous downside.
Excellent point.
Well said.

To op:
great advice from a professional.
j :D
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oldfatguy
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by oldfatguy »

Tycoon wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:28 am Having employees reapply will allow culling of the herd. It's a means to avoid certain inconvenient labor laws.
And likely trim benefits and/or wages for those who are "rehired."
bd7
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by bd7 »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
I've actually done this--as the acquiring employer. This was a small business, low double-digit employee numbers and not highly compensated. The existing company provided essentially no benefits. I had to "interview" everyone just to ask their name, what they did, how long they'd been there, and get their information for taxes, benefits, etc. I explained that they now had some benefits and all that. Nobody was fired, everyone was offered an equivalent job and everyone accepted. The firings came later after further evaluation.

I can't say for sure it will be the same in your case, but if the acquiring corporate entity is not looking to immediately restructure they'll likely not want to upset the applecart right now and accidentally not hire someone who is important to the operation. Is this different corporate entity related to the original somehow or is the division just being sold?

However, if there is a gap between the terminations and the hiring, all bets are off. If they say "today is your last day, you can start applying to the new company two weeks from now", then go ahead and apply if you want but also apply elsewhere and collect your UI.
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bottlecap
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by bottlecap »

It sounds like you're in a great spot. You're a high performer and will likely survive the "transfer.". At the same time, you can look elsewhere and more or less explain the situation to a potential new employer.

I get that uncertainty is stressful but it sounds like you've got a lot going for you in this situation.

Good luck,

JT
Pyramid44
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Pyramid44 »

I spent the last 20+ years of IT employment at an aerospace company working in IT.

First pass I was contract labor in a group and got very good pay and benefits. My contract house offered choices like hourly vs salary, cash bonus vs. raise in pay and extra paid vacation for “perfect” attendance. I selected options that kept my charge rate to the aerospace company lower than my peers. I was kept around longer because I was cheaper to hire.

The group I was in got downsized, got hired on in other groups and passed around from group to team to multi year projects over 20 years. For various HR related reasons they could never hire me. I had 6 different companies supply my paycheck as the national IT companies (EDS, HP, Dell, CSC, etc) went through various mergers and acquisitions.

I was asked to “reapply” for my job several times. And often my job at the aerospace company moved from say Dell to HP from one year to the next because of contract changes but I kept coming to work doing the same job until the next project needing staffing. I also kept picking payment choices that kept my charge rate down (always took bonus from company vs. hike in pay). I no longer know if the bonus/RSU/stock vs. pay hike even exists anymore. Last IT company didn’t offer any pay increases the last three years I was there before getting laid off due to lack of dollars by aerospace company.

It did mess up my 401K contributions a lot due to changes in company matches, and new company not picking up where I was in terms of where I was in saving for the year.

The best thing to do anytime you think your job is at risk is to look for a new job. Then you have a choice. You could find a better job. You can also get stuck with the same job at same pay but less benefits (or even less pay).

These things are always confusing when it is the first time a piece of work is outsourced. After going through rounds of contract bidding and renewals it just kind of becomes 1) is there still work for me to do? 2) who is providing the paycheck ?

Keep asking questions to find out the facts of the outsourcing. Look for information about the company picking up the contract ( company vs. employees). The team doing to the transition to the new contract will most likely only be there for a year or less before a more pernament team comes into place. A large national IT company (HP, Dell, etc) can be good to work for because you can then work on a contract at a different company.

If you go this route you can be very successful by being flexible.
Choose happiness.
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