Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

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Carguy85
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Carguy85 »

OP…you ever consider an airplane instead? 😃 Check out the price of a beat down 50 year old Cessna 172 (easily 3x the cost of that vette) and then factor in several thousand for hanger rent, another several thousand for annual, another several thousand in insurance, and then another few thousand in $7 gas, and another few thousand for subscriptions/incidentals…PER YEAR and then get back to that C6 and how dirt cheap it is in the grand scheme. What you are proposing has nearly 0 impact on you financially.
KlangFool
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by KlangFool »

life_force_prana wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:49 pm
KlangFool wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:23 am
Please use the following to validate your expense.

A) What is your 2023 gross income?

B) What is your 2023 annual savings/investment?

C) What is your 2023 taxes (Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare)?

D) What is your 2023 annual expense?

Gross Income = Annual Expense + Annual Savings/Investment + Taxes.

Annual expense = Gross Income - Annual Savings/Investment - Taxes

KlangFool
KlangFool, I have been trying to use your method to estimate my annual expenses but am doing something wrong as imputed expenses are coming out whacky so wanted to clarify below:

A) For 2023 gross income, I use 45K (pre-tax for me+spouse max 401k) plus w-2 income reported on line 1a of 1040. Assume that is correct method?

B) For 2023 annual savings, I track everything in spreadsheet so I have total pre-tax(45K)+taxable+roth+hsa+529. Assume that is correct method?

C) For 2023 taxes, for federal I use total payments made on line 33 of 1040 since it is cash out for 2023. For state, FICA and medicare I use YTD witheld amounts from last paystub for 2023. Is that correct?
A) You will miss the employer match portion of 401K. But, you know the amount. So, is the 45K includes the employer matching contribution?

B) That will work.

C) Correct!

KlangFool
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smitcat
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by smitcat »

Carguy85 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:15 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:01 pm
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:12 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:49 pm
srt7 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:38 pm

OK. I'll talk you OUT of buying it. For your interests and wealth, get a brand new Corvette! The latest ones look like a proper super car at the price of a Chevy Suburban (~ $80K).
The C8's are really a very different experience and currently have much higher costs for depreciation. The lack of a manual transmission and the extra electronics make for a faster car that is less engaging in some ways.
Where are all these cheap used C8 vettes hiding?
I did not say they are cheap but they are depreciating now in their 5th year.
You can now get a C8 for maybe $5-$10K off MSRP dependent upon price and where you shop the car.

Was talking to a gm employee that was going to trade in his 5k mile loaded out 2023 c8 (over $100k new) for a new truck but the local Chevy dealer was going to give him $62k trade 😳
If the MSRP was $100K and it has 5K miles or so now he can get around $85K+ now.
The point was that a C6 might cost the OP maybe $2K over the 2 years while a C8 might cost the OP maybe $20K+ over two years.
Cost being aquistion, plus tax, plus fees less sale after two years. Just a reasonable guess.
Janus887
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Janus887 »

Buy it. You'll mostly just end up staring at it in your garage because you don't have the time or really any compelling reason to drive it, being that you have a career, hobbies, a wife and two young children. Maybe once a month or so, you will take it out and just drive around for an hour on a Sunday afternoon. After a year or two of this, the itch of owning a sports car will likely be scratched, and you can sell the car for approximately what you paid for it. And you will also have learned something about life and yourself.
Carguy85
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Carguy85 »

smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:32 pm
Carguy85 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:15 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:01 pm
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:12 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:49 pm

The C8's are really a very different experience and currently have much higher costs for depreciation. The lack of a manual transmission and the extra electronics make for a faster car that is less engaging in some ways.
Where are all these cheap used C8 vettes hiding?
I did not say they are cheap but they are depreciating now in their 5th year.
You can now get a C8 for maybe $5-$10K off MSRP dependent upon price and where you shop the car.

Was talking to a gm employee that was going to trade in his 5k mile loaded out 2023 c8 (over $100k new) for a new truck but the local Chevy dealer was going to give him $62k trade 😳
If the MSRP was $100K and it has 5K miles or so now he can get around $85K+ now.
The point was that a C6 might cost the OP maybe $2K over the 2 years while a C8 might cost the OP maybe $20K+ over two years.
Cost being aquistion, plus tax, plus fees less sale after two years. Just a reasonable guess.
As a side note my bro bought a brand new loaded C7 (z51)…traded it in less than a year later with only 900 miles on it and took nearly a $20k bath. A C6 in the high 20s would no doubt be a much better move no doubt
smitcat
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by smitcat »

Carguy85 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:37 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:32 pm
Carguy85 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:15 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:01 pm
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:12 pm
Where are all these cheap used C8 vettes hiding?
I did not say they are cheap but they are depreciating now in their 5th year.
You can now get a C8 for maybe $5-$10K off MSRP dependent upon price and where you shop the car.

Was talking to a gm employee that was going to trade in his 5k mile loaded out 2023 c8 (over $100k new) for a new truck but the local Chevy dealer was going to give him $62k trade 😳
If the MSRP was $100K and it has 5K miles or so now he can get around $85K+ now.
The point was that a C6 might cost the OP maybe $2K over the 2 years while a C8 might cost the OP maybe $20K+ over two years.
Cost being aquistion, plus tax, plus fees less sale after two years. Just a reasonable guess.
As a side note my bro bought a brand new loaded C7 (z51)…traded it in less than a year later with only 900 miles on it and took nearly a $20k bath. A C6 in the high 20s would no doubt be a much better move no doubt
As you likely already know you can do these things and lose very little if you are aware of the current car market.
The C8 HTC is really quite a fun car but the days of ADM and no depreciation are now over.
Even the C8 Z06's are now coming down to earth quickly.
bombcar
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by bombcar »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:04 pm There is something downright magical about a car (not a truck or SUV!) having only two seats (next best thing to a single-seater!). That it happens to be a proven and venerable design, poised to appreciate in value, is an added benefit.

I'm quite a fan of the Tesla Model-3 Performance. But a new one would have a long journey of depreciation. And it just a 4-door sedan. Tesla has been promising a "roadster" since 2017; where is it? And if eventually it does arrive, it's going to be, what, $250K?
That’s really what it would come down for me - do I want a vehicle I drive by myself or with one other, and how often would I ride vs upgrading the family hauler to something ridiculous.

However I have a M35A2 for that two-seat action so I’d probably upgrade the minivan. :D
PowderDay9
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by PowderDay9 »

Think about the opportunity cost of buying a Corvette. You won't be buying a Jeep Wrangler and I bet your kids would love the Wrangler much more than the Corvette! :D
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

How can you consider buying a 2 seater?

cars I've owned:

69 MGB
63 MGB
75 Alfa spider
74 Alfa spider
another 75 Alfa spider
Lotus Elise
Factory Five Cobra (replica of Shelby Cobra)
94 Chevy S-10 pickup regular cab
91 Honda CRX-Si
91 Honda CRX-DX to teach son #1 how to drive manual. He has a Honda S2000, another 2 seater.

If you want an alternate to the Corvette, consider a Lotus Elise. Right around the same price. Waaaay more fun than any Corvette. The Elise will get nothing but smiles from others.
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JBTX
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by JBTX »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 12:15 pm
KlangFool wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:23 am
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:04 am
Well, I ballparked the expenses. Here are the big pieces:

Mortage: 26,400
Cars: 0
Childcare: 15,000
Insurance/Utilities/cell: 2400
Food: 10,000
Travel: 5,000
Clothes/haircuts/shopping/other: 5,000

That comes out to about 65k, I figured another 15k would cover saving for future cars and future house expenses.
Maverick3320,

As per my observation, bottom up (adding up all the expenses) tend to understate the actual expense. Given your actual net worth and gross income, this number does not make sense.

Please use the following to validate your expense.

A) What is your 2023 gross income?

B) What is your 2023 annual savings/investment?

C) What is your 2023 taxes (Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare)?

D) What is your 2023 annual expense?

Gross Income = Annual Expense + Annual Savings/Investment + Taxes.

Annual expense = Gross Income - Annual Savings/Investment - Taxes

KlangFool
I guess I'm confused as to what number doesn't make any sense. We're both pretty frugal people so I don't think the 80k number is off the mark by much. We have a 3% 30 year fixed mortgage on house we bought for 400k. We cook most meals at home and don't go out often (maybe 1-2x a month). We travel a few times a year at a cost of probably 3,000 total. Our cars are paid for. I bought solar panels a few years back so our monthly utility bill is quite low. Neither of us has an expensive hobby - we both run outside, play basketball occasionally and our gym membership is $22/month. We both max our tax-advantaged space and both max our indidivual Roth IRAs each year. What "hidden expenses" are you anticipating that I'm not accurate on?

Or are you talking about income vs savings? If that's the case, both of us really only starting saving money in the last 9-10 years. My wife didn't finish her PhD until early 30s and my income went from basically zero as a college student in 2009, to around 50k in 2012, to 100k in 2017, to 140k today.

Regardless, I reached out to the CPA that does our taxes to try and answer all your inquiries more specifically.
Most importantly whatever conclusions you come to on spending, I don’t think they make a difference here. You can easily afford a $30k car. The question is will you enjoy it enough to justify the modest nuisance of having a 3rd car.

I’ll preface that I am not at all a “car guy”. But a corvette would have little attraction to me. I’m not sure what I’d do with it. Is it going to be fun driving to work or the grocery store? If I had a serious desire for acceleration I’d buy a Tesla. If I had more money to spend I’d probably buy a nicer bigger Lexus or perhaps an SUV.

I drove a stick shift for about 20 years and I have no desire to do it again. While at times it can be fun realistically unless one is really good with one and willing to run up RPMs you’ll probably accelerate faster with an automatic in everyday driving.

I think the expenses question comes from seeing what looks like a very high savings rate, over 50%. Given that others may be expecting a higher accumulated savings number - but that is totally dependent on prior trajectory which you subsequently addressed.

So your expenses aren’t really a big consideration for this discussion. You’ll have a $100k inflation adjusted pensions, plus enough savings to eventually generate between $50k to $75k a year. Don’t know if SS is available. You are in great shape for the future even if you never save another dime.

Having said all that just as a discussion point the expenses seem light. $2400 for insurance and utilities and phone seems really light. Our home insurance itself is $2400 a year. I don’t see anything in there for gas and car maintenance or car insurance etc. I don’t know what car = $0 means. Our annual car expenses - gas maintainance insurance etc is probably over $10k per year and we own our cars outright.

What about medical and medical insurance?

Also when kids get older you’ll probably spend more, but you won’t have the child care.
er999
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by er999 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:15 pm
If you want an alternate to the Corvette, consider a Lotus Elise. Right around the same price. Waaaay more fun than any Corvette. The Elise will get nothing but smiles from others.
Here’s an example for $36k

https://www.lotustalk.com/threads/2005- ... st-6307257

Salvage title because these cars have very easily damaged fiberglass panels leading to the car declared totaled. I think looks cooler than a corvette (I’m biased as I used to have a Lotus Evora) but somewhat more hassle to find someone to maintain and repair. It uses a Toyota engine so don’t have the crazy Ferrari engine costs but the other parts aren’t from Toyota so not quite like a used Camary.
BruDude
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by BruDude »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:15 pm How can you consider buying a 2 seater?

cars I've owned:

69 MGB
63 MGB
75 Alfa spider
74 Alfa spider
another 75 Alfa spider
Lotus Elise
Factory Five Cobra (replica of Shelby Cobra)
94 Chevy S-10 pickup regular cab
91 Honda CRX-Si
91 Honda CRX-DX to teach son #1 how to drive manual. He has a Honda S2000, another 2 seater.

If you want an alternate to the Corvette, consider a Lotus Elise. Right around the same price. Waaaay more fun than any Corvette. The Elise will get nothing but smiles from others.
I’m 5’9 and can’t imagine trying to cram myself into an Elise. How anyone does it is an incredible feat.
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TimeIsYourFriend
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by TimeIsYourFriend »

Personally, I'd look at a new Miata which can be had in the 30k range if you don't go wild on the options or a lightly used one can easily be found less than that. It is quite the driving experience as far as being "one" with the car and road. The Corvette is more a blunt instrument and I wouldn't be too keen on the reliability of a 14 year old GM product. Or, if V8 is the only option, then a new or lightly used Camaro convertible with the LT1 (can be had with a manual) which will be faster, handle better, quieter, much better tech, and have a warranty compared to a 10' Vette.

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fasteddie911
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by fasteddie911 »

As some have brought up kids, I would add that's the main reason I sold my 2nd car (miata). With 2 kids I just wasn't getting enough use out of a 2-seater to make it worthwhile. Whereas something with 4 seats I could at least take my family out to dinner, pickup the kids from school, etc.
Tracker968
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Tracker968 »

Is it a convertible? My third car is a convertible which I only drive in the summer. I really like being able to put the top down. It is a different experience than just another car.
margaritaville
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by margaritaville »

TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am New or lightly used Camaro convertible with the LT1 (can be had with a manual) which will be faster, handle better, quieter, much better tech, and have a warranty compared to a 10' Vette.
Possibly the last 3 . . .

The LT1 has 20 HP on the C6, but weighs 700 lbs more. The C6 with the LS3 is faster in a straight line or the twisties.
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TimeIsYourFriend
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by TimeIsYourFriend »

margaritaville wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:51 pm
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am New or lightly used Camaro convertible with the LT1 (can be had with a manual) which will be faster, handle better, quieter, much better tech, and have a warranty compared to a 10' Vette.
Possibly the last 3 . . .

The LT1 has 20 HP on the C6, but weighs 700 lbs more. The C6 with the LS3 is faster in a straight line or the twisties.
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8

A Grand Sport is a much better handler than the base vette. But, I'm not sure about the convertible Camaro specs: I could be wrong if we factor in manual convertible compared to the above numbers. Maybe it's a wash when compared to a Grand Sport?
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unwitting_gulag
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by unwitting_gulag »

TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am Personally, I'd look at a new Miata which can be had in the 30k range if you don't go wild on the options or a lightly used one can easily be found less than that. It is quite the driving experience as far as being "one" with the car and road. The Corvette is more a blunt instrument and I wouldn't be too keen on the reliability of a 14 year old GM product. Or, if V8 is the only option, then a new or lightly used Camaro convertible with the LT1 (can be had with a manual) which will be faster, handle better, quieter, much better tech, and have a warranty compared to a 10' Vette.
Long-term Miata owner here (first generation, "NA"). Risking car-enthusiast discussions on a financial forum, it's worth asking, what we mean by "sports car" and what itch it's intended to scratch. This of course is highly situational and subjective; there is no right answer. But there is a best-personal-answer that follows from being honest with our preferences.

I got into Miatas because they are (or rather, were) cheap; easy to maintain and practical. But my actual preferences are on-demand sledgehammer acceleration, effortless low-end torque, minimal fuss or noise. Taking "buy and hold" a bit far, I keep driving the same Miata. But there are better choices, albeit not currently inexpensive ones. Something for the OP to consider?
NotFatYet
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by NotFatYet »

You love cars. Me too. But you also love your kids and want to enjoy this activity with them. You also probably have very limited free time that you can spend solo. They won’t be able to ride in a 2-seater for a loooong time. I’d suggest looking for something fun with a back seat instead. Sure, it won’t be a Corvette, but you’ll get a lot more joy and use from something that you can bring a kid in. Maybe a Mustang, Mini Cooper S, GTI, Veloster N, old 944, STI, Civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, Focus ST, Fiesta ST, the options go on and on. I remember the fun days with my dad and how that helped us bond and gave me a lifelong passion for fun cars.

Just a consideration…
MMiroir
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by MMiroir »

NotFatYet wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:45 pm You love cars. Me too. But you also love your kids and want to enjoy this activity with them. You also probably have very limited free time that you can spend solo. They won’t be able to ride in a 2-seater for a loooong time. I’d suggest looking for something fun with a back seat instead. Sure, it won’t be a Corvette, but you’ll get a lot more joy and use from something that you can bring a kid in. Maybe a Mustang, Mini Cooper S, GTI, Veloster N, old 944, STI, Civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, Focus ST, Fiesta ST, the options go on and on. I remember the fun days with my dad and how that helped us bond and gave me a lifelong passion for fun cars.

Just a consideration…
As an sports car guy with three grown up kids, I tend to agree with the above. When they were growing up, I generally had 2 seaters or 2+2's and could never drive with all three in the car at the same time. They also hated being in the back seat of a small two door coupe, so they never wanted to ride in it unless they were in the front seat. Looking back, I should have bought sports sedan of some sort that was still fun to drive but more utilitarian. The kids would have spent more time in the car.

However, the OP's kids are so young, they are probably at least 5 years from being able to form memories of riding in a car. If the OP likes Corvette's, get one. A 10+ year old Corvette is already fully depreciated, and will likely hold steady or rise modestly in value in the next five years. Then, once his kids are older, he can decide if a more utilitarian sports sedan makes sense.
MMiroir
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by MMiroir »

TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:56 pm
margaritaville wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:51 pm
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am New or lightly used Camaro convertible with the LT1 (can be had with a manual) which will be faster, handle better, quieter, much better tech, and have a warranty compared to a 10' Vette.
Possibly the last 3 . . .

The LT1 has 20 HP on the C6, but weighs 700 lbs more. The C6 with the LS3 is faster in a straight line or the twisties.
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8

A Grand Sport is a much better handler than the base vette. But, I'm not sure about the convertible Camaro specs: I could be wrong if we factor in manual convertible compared to the above numbers. Maybe it's a wash when compared to a Grand Sport?
The new Hyundai Ioniq N EV has a 1/4 mile time of 11.1 seconds, and there will be a wave of performance EV's that will be cheaper and faster in the near future. It will make all of the high dollar performance vehicles obsolete, at least in a straight line. For reference:

https://youtu.be/YLL3Wub0JEg?si=eIIzfWvXtmHATAJM

I do agree with the idea of a Camaro convertible with a V-8 manual as a good dad's performance car. You can take the whole family out in a safe, modern vehicle, still have room for modest amounts of luggage, and with the drop top, you don't have to drive fast to have a memorable experience. Unfortunately, there are only four left for sale right now.

https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/? ... &zip=60521
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by margaritaville »

TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8
That's surprising and I stand corrected. Given the curb weight and HP numbers of the Camaro compared to the C6, I wouldn't have expected that.

I still say the C6 is the better choice. It's better looking, has already taken most of its depreciation hit, and you can actually see out of the cockpit. The Camaro feels really claustrophobic to me. YMMV.
Olemiss540
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Olemiss540 »

margaritaville wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:55 am
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8
That's surprising and I stand corrected. Given the curb weight and HP numbers of the Camaro compared to the C6, I wouldn't have expected that.

I still say the C6 is the better choice. It's better looking, has already taken most of its depreciation hit, and you can actually see out of the cockpit. The Camaro feels really claustrophobic to me. YMMV.
Camaro has a fantastic chassis no doubt. Much of the lap time discrepancy can be attributed to the length of the track and tire selection. The SS 1LE is on modern rubber (Goodyear Supercar 3) and that alone can account for a 4 second difference in a 3 minute lap time easily compared to 2010 tire compounds. Given equal rubber guessing it's really a drivers battle in terms of lap times.

Cockpit visibility is horrible. I only drive mine on the track and it's a chore to keep up with what's behind you. On a vert it would be good I presume though.
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TimeIsYourFriend
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by TimeIsYourFriend »

Olemiss540 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:23 am
margaritaville wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:55 am
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8
That's surprising and I stand corrected. Given the curb weight and HP numbers of the Camaro compared to the C6, I wouldn't have expected that.

I still say the C6 is the better choice. It's better looking, has already taken most of its depreciation hit, and you can actually see out of the cockpit. The Camaro feels really claustrophobic to me. YMMV.
Camaro has a fantastic chassis no doubt. Much of the lap time discrepancy can be attributed to the length of the track and tire selection. The SS 1LE is on modern rubber (Goodyear Supercar 3) and that alone can account for a 4 second difference in a 3 minute lap time easily compared to 2010 tire compounds. Given equal rubber guessing it's really a drivers battle in terms of lap times.

Cockpit visibility is horrible. I only drive mine on the track and it's a chore to keep up with what's behind you. On a vert it would be good I presume though.
Great point. I hadn't considered that. The Grand Sport was an in-betweener from the base to the ZR1 handling-wise so I'd be curious if the OP's potential car is a base or not. For most of us as average drivers, it probably isn't going matter though. We aren't going to be throwing times down anywhere near the professionals. That's why I'm more about driving feel, dynamics, ease of driving fast.

As a 3rd car, you never have to drive with the top up!
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TimeIsYourFriend
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by TimeIsYourFriend »

Having owned domestics in the 15 year range before, I can tell you that there will be a bunch of little things wrong with the car unless the owner was super studious about fixing all of them. A lot of these you won't realize on a short test drive. And then every now and again, there will be a more expensive one come up. If you are DIYer and like to fix most things yourself and let most small things slide, that's good. If you are super focused on every little detail and take the car to a dealership always, this "fully-depreciated" car could turn out to be a nightmare from your perspective.
"Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy." - John C. Bogle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

BruDude wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:03 am
I’m 5’9 and can’t imagine trying to cram myself into an Elise. How anyone does it is an incredible feat.
I'm 5' 9" and had tons of room once inside. I bought it from a friend who is 6' 3" and he also fit fine. The seats are so low to the floor that although the roof is quite low, your seat is lower, so you have tons more room than in most cars. Headroom, I mean. I'll repeat that getting in and out takes practice and if you're big like Jeremy Clarkson, see his top gear video.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by smitcat »

TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:55 am
Olemiss540 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:23 am
margaritaville wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:55 am
TimeIsYourFriend wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:08 am
Newer Camaros run low 12's. A 2010 Corvette Grand Sport (and I don't think the OP prospective car is even a Grand Sport?) runs mid 12's. In Car and Driver Lightning Lap:
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport, 2:58.8
That's surprising and I stand corrected. Given the curb weight and HP numbers of the Camaro compared to the C6, I wouldn't have expected that.

I still say the C6 is the better choice. It's better looking, has already taken most of its depreciation hit, and you can actually see out of the cockpit. The Camaro feels really claustrophobic to me. YMMV.
Camaro has a fantastic chassis no doubt. Much of the lap time discrepancy can be attributed to the length of the track and tire selection. The SS 1LE is on modern rubber (Goodyear Supercar 3) and that alone can account for a 4 second difference in a 3 minute lap time easily compared to 2010 tire compounds. Given equal rubber guessing it's really a drivers battle in terms of lap times.

Cockpit visibility is horrible. I only drive mine on the track and it's a chore to keep up with what's behind you. On a vert it would be good I presume though.
Great point. I hadn't considered that. The Grand Sport was an in-betweener from the base to the ZR1 handling-wise so I'd be curious if the OP's potential car is a base or not. For most of us as average drivers, it probably isn't going matter though. We aren't going to be throwing times down anywhere near the professionals. That's why I'm more about driving feel, dynamics, ease of driving fast.

As a 3rd car, you never have to drive with the top up!
"For most of us as average drivers, it probably isn't going matter though. We aren't going to be throwing times down anywhere near the professionals. That's why I'm more about driving feel, dynamics, ease of driving fast."
Exactly - this is often lost on the folks constantly comparing numbers.

"As a 3rd car, you never have to drive with the top up!"
Another excellent observation - but always have it with you in case of ......
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by wander »

Enjoy it when you can.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Maverick3320 »

To follow up on this thread:

I bought a 2010 Corvette (base). 6sp manual, 3LT package, coupe, Crystal Red (metallic red), 48,000 miles. $28,000 purchase price. It came with a car cover and two "roof panels", black and body-colored, that can be taken off to get a quasi-convertible experience. The only modification was the owner had a switch installed that actually quiets the exhaust note, which I really appreciate.

I looked nationwide on Cargurus to get a decent sense of the price and cross-checked that with a few other websites. I paid for a third-party inspection of the vehicle and was happy with the results.

I never really considered looking for a car that my kids can ride in. My two girls (4 and 2) still need car seats and will for a few years.

I considered other cars, particularly a Miata. A small, "tossable", affordable small car is quite appealing and may be an option down the road. I did look at the Elise an an option but those seemed to be much closer to 40k, and they were scattered all over the country, meaning I'd have to somehow get a car 2000 miles away inspected at a shop I don't know and then pay $1000 to ship it to me. I also liked the Corvettes with the Grand Sport package but they tended to run 5-6k more, and honestly, I probably don't need the handling upgrades.

I've driven the car a few times now and really enjoy it. I don't plan on any mods other than a new head unit with Android auto so I can listen to Spotify and run Google Maps.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by AlohaBill »

I have a 2009 Mazda Miata MX5 you can have for $6,000. My son has been driving it for two years now when his car broke down. He just flew to Japan and left the car with us. My wife took it to go shopping and came back with a nail in the tire. I hurt myself getting in and out now. Ooooo, I remember the times driving down Hwy 1 from Monterey to San Simeon. And another trip up to Arcata. Weeeeeeee! On second thought I can’t sell it the kid needs it. 😀
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Kenkat »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:21 am
BruDude wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:03 am
I’m 5’9 and can’t imagine trying to cram myself into an Elise. How anyone does it is an incredible feat.
I'm 5' 9" and had tons of room once inside. I bought it from a friend who is 6' 3" and he also fit fine. The seats are so low to the floor that although the roof is quite low, your seat is lower, so you have tons more room than in most cars. Headroom, I mean. I'll repeat that getting in and out takes practice and if you're big like Jeremy Clarkson, see his top gear video.
I’m 6’5” and can drive my NB/99 Miata without problems. It’s a tight fit and I much prefer it top down, but it’s comfortable enough for me.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Kenkat »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:23 am To follow up on this thread:

I bought a 2010 Corvette (base). 6sp manual, 3LT package, coupe, Crystal Red (metallic red), 48,000 miles. $28,000 purchase price.
Enjoy your car, congratulations, sounds fantastic!
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by NiceUnparticularMan »

I've been thinking about this thread this week as a guy I hired and I are trying to get the '64 (C2) Corvette I inherited from my Dad running consistently again. Meanwhile the Kia EV6 I bought a little while ago, probably for right around what I could get for the '64, is way more comfortable, has all sorts of amenities, all sorts of safety features (to be blunt, a C2 is a death trap), is far more energy efficient, and yet could easily smoke the Vette in a straight line and probably on a track too.

And yet, will I sell my Dad's car because it makes no financial sense? Of course not, I will just keep putting more money into it. And when I have had those times it is running well and I can cruise around or toss it up and down some fun twisty roads, it is definitely a unique experience in my life.

I guess my point is these are not rational decisions in a normal consumption sense, but they don't have to be.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by margaritaville »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:23 am The only modification was the owner had a switch installed that actually quiets the exhaust note, which I really appreciate.

I've driven the car a few times now and really enjoy it. I don't plan on any mods other than a new head unit with Android auto so I can listen to Spotify and run Google Maps.
Congratulations on the car!

Sounds like it has the factory NPP exhaust which uses vacuum actuated valves in the mufflers to allow for additional flow/noise at higher RPMs. In stock form, the car sends a signal to the actuator to open the valves at above 3500 RPM under load. The previous owner probably installed a "Mild to Wild" switch which allows for manual control of the exhaust valve. Most people install them not to make it quieter, but so they can open it up at low RPM and enjoy the burble all the time.

I'd recommend Crutchfield for the head unit. If you have the Bose system currently, a good option is the Alpine iLX-407 that does Carplay/Android Auto and integrates perfectly with the steering wheel controls. I also got the backup camera which works great. The head unit and vehicle integration kit was around $550. The back-up camera and license plate mount was another $200. I paid a local installer another $250 to do the install. It won't win any audiophile awards, but it's a good mid range option.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by CharlesDickens »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:23 am To follow up on this thread:

I bought a 2010 Corvette (base). 6sp manual, 3LT package, coupe, Crystal Red (metallic red), 48,000 miles. $28,000 purchase price. It came with a car cover and two "roof panels", black and body-colored, that can be taken off to get a quasi-convertible experience. The only modification was the owner had a switch installed that actually quiets the exhaust note, which I really appreciate.

I looked nationwide on Cargurus to get a decent sense of the price and cross-checked that with a few other websites. I paid for a third-party inspection of the vehicle and was happy with the results.

I never really considered looking for a car that my kids can ride in. My two girls (4 and 2) still need car seats and will for a few years.

I considered other cars, particularly a Miata. A small, "tossable", affordable small car is quite appealing and may be an option down the road. I did look at the Elise an an option but those seemed to be much closer to 40k, and they were scattered all over the country, meaning I'd have to somehow get a car 2000 miles away inspected at a shop I don't know and then pay $1000 to ship it to me. I also liked the Corvettes with the Grand Sport package but they tended to run 5-6k more, and honestly, I probably don't need the handling upgrades.

I've driven the car a few times now and really enjoy it. I don't plan on any mods other than a new head unit with Android auto so I can listen to Spotify and run Google Maps.
Ok, my one tip is that when you install the new head unit, add at least a rear camera. It made a huge difference for me. Running the wires to the back was not difficult until I got to the firewall. I preferred not drilling into the firewall nor into the exterior, and it can be done! There is a gasket at the right side of the rear firewall. There is a hole in it (I think there was another wire in there). You can expand that hole a little with a round file, and then feed the new wires through. Also, in order to mount the camera on the back without drilling into the body, you can use one of the 2 bolts holding the license plate light. No drilling! If you search Corvetteforum, you can find pictures.

I also installed a camera on the front, which also was not too difficult, but also is not that important. I hardly ever use that one, as I usually back in. In installed a microphone at the front left pillar, for phone calls. It is a nice setup now.

You have great taste in cars!
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tony17112acst
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by tony17112acst »

This may fall into a category of exciting at first, but it'll wear off eventually, like owning a boat, or buying a house with a view.

If it *IS* I'd recommend purchasing it for one reason: You can sell and get most of your money back.

So, you may own it for 2-3 years and enjoy it and you got it out of your system for only a few thousand bucks loss after selling.

EDIT: OK, I just saw you purchased it ...cool!
livingalmostlarge
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by livingalmostlarge »

have fun! but seriously is it what you want or if we said here's $30k buy ANY car, you'd buy something different and fun? That's the better question.

If I had $30k maybe an older fun car to rebuild.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Barefoot »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:23 am To follow up on this thread:

I bought a 2010 Corvette (base). 6sp manual, 3LT package, coupe, Crystal Red (metallic red), 48,000 miles. $28,000 purchase price.
Excellent.

I always had a convertible 3rd car when my 2 kids were growing up. They much preferred getting dropped off at school in them vs Mom's minivan. They were 3 years apart in school, so there were many times when I was taking only one of them to an event.

I was never a Corvette guy, but I can see the attraction.
mortfree
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by mortfree »

Huge fan of corvettes but I’ll never own one because I know I won’t drive it enough (garage queen).

Also always like to share this line from a Pearl Jam song:

Sorry is the fool who trades his soul for a corvette
Thinks he’ll get the girl
He’ll only get the mechanic

Enjoy!!
Closer to 50 than 40
Base Hit
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Base Hit »

Manual sports car is a big yes for future resale. Choose one with a fun and easy to operate shifter and clutch. One the best manuals I've ever experienced is in the MX-5 Miata. Cadillac Blackwing manual transmissions are supposed to be excellent. BMW; not so much. I'm not sure about your year Corvette.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Valuethinker »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:21 am
BruDude wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:03 am
I’m 5’9 and can’t imagine trying to cram myself into an Elise. How anyone does it is an incredible feat.
I'm 5' 9" and had tons of room once inside. I bought it from a friend who is 6' 3" and he also fit fine. The seats are so low to the floor that although the roof is quite low, your seat is lower, so you have tons more room than in most cars. Headroom, I mean. I'll repeat that getting in and out takes practice and if you're big like Jeremy Clarkson, see his top gear video.
I had a colleague in Finance who was made to give away her Ford Fiesta (small car) and get a Lotus -- this was her boyfriend's, now husband's idea. It was very unreliable and she pined for her Fiesta - which she had given to her sister.

I had a colleague who started her career at Group Lotus who had some stories about the production line.

These things are *not* reliable. They are not well-made by the standards of modern car manufacture.

Did you have any reliability or finish issues with yours?
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Maverick3320
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Maverick3320 »

NiceUnparticularMan wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:29 am I've been thinking about this thread this week as a guy I hired and I are trying to get the '64 (C2) Corvette I inherited from my Dad running consistently again. Meanwhile the Kia EV6 I bought a little while ago, probably for right around what I could get for the '64, is way more comfortable, has all sorts of amenities, all sorts of safety features (to be blunt, a C2 is a death trap), is far more energy efficient, and yet could easily smoke the Vette in a straight line and probably on a track too.

And yet, will I sell my Dad's car because it makes no financial sense? Of course not, I will just keep putting more money into it. And when I have had those times it is running well and I can cruise around or toss it up and down some fun twisty roads, it is definitely a unique experience in my life.

I guess my point is these are not rational decisions in a normal consumption sense, but they don't have to be.
It's funny you mention that. My daily driver, a 2017 Lincoln MKZ, has a 400hp twin turbo 3.0 and with the auto transmission and AWD, is honestly probably faster 0-60 than my new C6 (or at least with me driving the C6 manual). The Lincoln obviously has loads more creature comforts as well.

But I didn't really buy the C6 for the 0-60 time, nor obviously the creature comforts. I love the way it looks and part of me really appreciates how...crude?...it is.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Maverick3320 »

margaritaville wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:33 am
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:23 am The only modification was the owner had a switch installed that actually quiets the exhaust note, which I really appreciate.

I've driven the car a few times now and really enjoy it. I don't plan on any mods other than a new head unit with Android auto so I can listen to Spotify and run Google Maps.
Congratulations on the car!

Sounds like it has the factory NPP exhaust which uses vacuum actuated valves in the mufflers to allow for additional flow/noise at higher RPMs. In stock form, the car sends a signal to the actuator to open the valves at above 3500 RPM under load. The previous owner probably installed a "Mild to Wild" switch which allows for manual control of the exhaust valve. Most people install them not to make it quieter, but so they can open it up at low RPM and enjoy the burble all the time.

I'd recommend Crutchfield for the head unit. If you have the Bose system currently, a good option is the Alpine iLX-407 that does Carplay/Android Auto and integrates perfectly with the steering wheel controls. I also got the backup camera which works great. The head unit and vehicle integration kit was around $550. The back-up camera and license plate mount was another $200. I paid a local installer another $250 to do the install. It won't win any audiophile awards, but it's a good mid range option.
Excellent info. I've actually read about the "mild to wild" switch and I assumed that's what it was.

Funny you mention Crutchfield - literally yesterday I pegged the Alpine iLX-507 as what I'm probably going to buy. I had totally forgotten about Crutchfield; I remember them from my high school car audio days but it's been 15+ years since I had to upgrade audio in any car I owned. I really want to try and install the head unit myself but I think the cameras and steering wheel integration might be a bridge too far for my technical abilities, so I did start looking around the local area at car audio places for installation.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Maverick3320 »

livingalmostlarge wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:20 pm have fun! but seriously is it what you want or if we said here's $30k buy ANY car, you'd buy something different and fun? That's the better question.

If I had $30k maybe an older fun car to rebuild.
If I had more time in my life (busy job and young kids at the moment) I would love to do a rebuild some day. The C6 will be better for what I need - something I can drive alone 3-4 times per month in the warmer months and then not take a huge depreciation hit in a few years if I get bored with it.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Maverick3320 »

mortfree wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:54 pm Huge fan of corvettes but I’ll never own one because I know I won’t drive it enough (garage queen).

Also always like to share this line from a Pearl Jam song:

Sorry is the fool who trades his soul for a corvette
Thinks he’ll get the girl
He’ll only get the mechanic

Enjoy!!
Ha! Love it. I'm one of the lucky ones that already has the girl, though :D
NiceUnparticularMan
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by NiceUnparticularMan »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:42 am I love the way it looks and part of me really appreciates how...crude?...it is.
Totally. I've actually made some changes to the C2 to make it a little more friendly and safer to drive, as my Dad had not (meaning he drove it with bad brakes and no power steering). I just wasn't driving it with the way my Dad had it set up, so that made little sense. But still, I've tried to keep it feeling at least pretty close to what a 1960s Corvette with the available upgrade options at the time would have felt like. And I would not touch things like the period appropriate Hurst shifter he liked.

And it really is totally different from driving any other car I have now, or have had. Crude is a very good word for it. Slightly more positive . . . visceral? Something like that.

Anyway, not for everyone, not in fact what everyone looking for a premium driving experience would want, but it is definitely a thing.

Edit: Oh, and the car guy and I think we got it running again! Famous last words and all, but he thinks he figured out a mistake that had been made probably either by my Dad or the owner before. Knock on wood . . . .
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:33 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:21 am
BruDude wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:03 am
I’m 5’9 and can’t imagine trying to cram myself into an Elise. How anyone does it is an incredible feat.
I'm 5' 9" and had tons of room once inside. I bought it from a friend who is 6' 3" and he also fit fine. The seats are so low to the floor that although the roof is quite low, your seat is lower, so you have tons more room than in most cars. Headroom, I mean. I'll repeat that getting in and out takes practice and if you're big like Jeremy Clarkson, see his top gear video.
I had a colleague in Finance who was made to give away her Ford Fiesta (small car) and get a Lotus -- this was her boyfriend's, now husband's idea. It was very unreliable and she pined for her Fiesta - which she had given to her sister.

I had a colleague who started her career at Group Lotus who had some stories about the production line.

These things are *not* reliable. They are not well-made by the standards of modern car manufacture.

Did you have any reliability or finish issues with yours?
Unreliability with Lotus is with Pre-Federal Elise/Exige cars where Lotus drivetrains or Rover drivetrains are used. These cars use the Toyota 2ZZ engine used in the Celica GTS and I believe the MR2 spider. There are head changes and engine tuning changes to get 197hp out of them. The issues these cars can have are the oil hoses which go to the oil cooler in the front of the car, which are corrected with a recall, so no charge and the typical plastic end cap radiator failures that you'll find mostly with BMW or high mileage Subarus but are very common in all vehicles these days. Even my Wrangler has a radiator like that. The website LotusTalk thoroughly points out every little problem and gives you low dollar fixes. One was where the AC relay in the passenger front wheel well does not have a back EMF diode. So when the AC turns off, the energy stored in the relay coil can go negative in the wire to the ECU and reset the ECU which is felt as if the car shut off for 1/10th of a second. Solution is to buy the revised relay for $18 from Lotus or solder in a diode. A common Toyota problem is the thermostat. After some years, the plastic in it degrades and it can stick shut. I spent, I believe $7 for an all metal replacement from Auto Zone and that thing will never go bad. The aftermarket for these cars is amazing. With less than 6000 coming to the US, there are multiple supercharger add ons and many other parts. I bought the Radium clam kit. The rear clam takes about 3 hours to remove and includes removing much of the interior. I did this one winter and put in the kit. Once that's done, removal takes half an hour. I also bought a "Track top" which is an all carbon fiber top that weighs about 3 pounds. 5 minutes to install or remove where the factory hard top is about an hour. Lotus will make custom parts for you. The previous owner of my car had Lotus build a center console (usually exposed gray plastic) with color matched leather to the seats and off color (black) stitching.
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g2morrow
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by g2morrow »

So did the OP buy the C6? join the corvetteforum if you did.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by unwitting_gulag »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:42 am
NiceUnparticularMan wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:29 am... the Kia EV6 I bought a little while ago, probably for right around what I could get for the '64, is way more comfortable, has all sorts of amenities, all sorts of safety features (to be blunt, a C2 is a death trap), is far more energy efficient, and yet could easily smoke the Vette in a straight line and probably on a track too. ...
It's funny you mention that. My daily driver, a 2017 Lincoln MKZ, has a 400hp twin turbo 3.0 and with the auto transmission and AWD, is honestly probably faster 0-60 than my new C6 (or at least with me driving the C6 manual). The Lincoln obviously has loads more creature comforts as well.

But I didn't really buy the C6 for the 0-60 time, nor obviously the creature comforts. I love the way it looks and part of me really appreciates how...crude?...it is.
It does often transpire, that a venerable and storied sports car, comes out to be rather inferior in practical acceleration, to some quite humdrum and modest modern offering.

Having been around sports cars for decades, my emerging desire is not for nostalgia, aesthetics, timelessness, charm, "visceral" (as another poster eloquently put it) sensation or driver-machine-road connectivity, ... but ungodly, physiologically-challenging, on-demand but brief bursts of acceleration. The closest thing possible to driving a top-fuel dragster, but (1) very quiet, and (2) with no prep. Regular vehicular life isn't about maximum roadholding or taking a highway on-ramp at double the yellow posted suggested speed, but in crawling along at 5 mph, slamming the throttle, reaching 25 mph with maximum celerity, and then calling it good. Repeat this 20 times a day, never breaking the law or offending other drivers, or drawing undue attention to oneself (say from a loud exhaust), but feeling that incredible pleasure of commanding such power.

How to achieve this? Wait, don't tell me....
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Re: Talk me out of buying a 30k sports car (as a third car)

Post by NiceUnparticularMan »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:34 am Having been around sports cars for decades, my emerging desire is not for nostalgia, aesthetics, timelessness, charm, "visceral" (as another poster eloquently put it) sensation or driver-machine-road connectivity, ... but ungodly, physiologically-challenging, on-demand but brief bursts of acceleration. The closest thing possible to driving a top-fuel dragster, but (1) very quiet, and (2) with no prep. Regular vehicular life isn't about maximum roadholding or taking a highway on-ramp at double the yellow posted suggested speed, but in crawling along at 5 mph, slamming the throttle, reaching 25 mph with maximum celerity, and then calling it good. Repeat this 20 times a day, never breaking the law or offending other drivers, or drawing undue attention to oneself (say from a loud exhaust), but feeling that incredible pleasure of commanding such power.

How to achieve this? Wait, don't tell me....
This is reminding me of two of my 1980s-kid dream cars, one which I got to (briefly) enjoy.

The one I got to briefly enjoy was a Buick Grand National, a totally bonkers car that was at least sorta stealthy, ludicrously underrated in terms of HP, and so much fun in a straight line. I got to enjoy it because my Dad was a GM employee on a plan where he got to "test drive" new cars every 3-6 months, and he rotated through the Grand National. So much fun.

The other was the common object of lust for a certain sort of kid who read certain car magazines at the time, namely the AMG Hammer, particularly the sedan. I am not sure how quiet it actually was, but it was otherwise a fairly normal-looking luxury sedan with what for the time was considered ungodly acceleration. Some kids were Countach kids, some Testarossa, some 911, but for some of us, the very idea of the Hammer was the true pinnacle.

I was actually thinking about the Hammer the other day when I realized my EV6 (not even the GT, just the GT Line AWD powertrain) actually had tested faster in those same magazines. And of course it has four doors, and while not a Mercedes, in its own way it is pretty luxe by my standards.

And I still can't decide if this is like a dream come true for me, or the final end of the dream. Maybe some of both.
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