[Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

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TravellingTechOnFire
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[Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by TravellingTechOnFire »

Would appreciate input and opinions on *which* international index fund to hold.

I prefer that we don't debate whether to hold an international allocation or not, as those threads are quite well fleshed out.

I like Vanguards selections of funds since they give an option of total international including emerging markets, and international excluding emerging markets. The reason I am pointing this out specifically is that I currently only use Fidelity so would prefer to use one of their funds. I'm not easily finding a fund that excludes emerging markets....all of their finds as far as I can tell include an allocation to EM.

What are peoples thoughts on Fidelity's funds, which they prefer, and why.

I am currently 100% US equities and considering diversifying a bit.

Thanks!
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Re: International equity index funds

Post by jeffyscott »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:33 pmThe reason I am pointing this out specifically is that I currently only use Fidelity so would prefer to use one of their funds. I'm not easily finding a fund that excludes emerging markets....all of their finds as far as I can tell include an allocation to EM.
There's Fidelity International Index Fund (FSPSX) follows EAFE, no EM.
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nedsaid
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

I am using a combination of Fidelity International Index and Fidelity Emerging Markets Index for my Rollover IRA at Fidelity. In another account, I use the Fidelity Global ex-US Index fund. As another poster said, Fidelity International Index is Developed Markets only. If you want both Developed Markets and Emerging Markets at market weights, I would choose the Fidelity Global ex-US Index fund.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by tenkuky »

Fidelity Total International Index (FTIHX) has international small-cap as well, compared to FSGGX, for a "broader" EM+developed market fund.
5092 vs. 2331 holdings.
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V638
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Duckie »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:33 pm Would appreciate input and opinions on *which* international index fund to hold.
Fidelity has five international index funds:
  1. (FTIHX) Fidelity Total International Index Fund (0.06%) -- Complete international stocks
    ____
  2. (FSGGX) Fidelity Global ex U.S. Index Fund (0.055%) -- Almost complete international stocks
    ____
  3. (FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
    ____
  4. (FPADX) Fidelity Emerging Markets Index Fund (0.075%) -- Emerging markets only, ~20% of international stocks
    ____
  5. (FZILX) Fidelity Zero International Index Fund (0.00%) -- Not suitable for taxable accounts
I favor "total market" funds so I would prefer FTIHX. Some people like to choose their developed to emerging ratio so prefer a combination of FSPSX and FPADX. Some don't want emerging so go with just FSPSX.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Andy12345 »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:33 pm Would appreciate input and opinions on *which* international index fund to hold.

I prefer that we don't debate whether to hold an international allocation or not, as those threads are quite well fleshed out.

I like Vanguards selections of funds since they give an option of total international including emerging markets, and international excluding emerging markets. The reason I am pointing this out specifically is that I currently only use Fidelity so would prefer to use one of their funds. I'm not easily finding a fund that excludes emerging markets....all of their finds as far as I can tell include an allocation to EM.

What are peoples thoughts on Fidelity's funds, which they prefer, and why.

I am currently 100% US equities and considering diversifying a bit.

Thanks!
I had the same question at one point.

FSPSX https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315911727
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TravellingTechOnFire
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by TravellingTechOnFire »

Thanks for the replies. I hate to ask simple questions that one can easily research on their own, but here I feel like Fidelity does not do a good job of clarifying this. Here is what they say about FSPSX, which several have said excludes emerging markets:

"Objective:

Seeks to provide investment results that correspond to the total return of foreign stock markets.

Risk
Stock markets, especially foreign markets, are volatile and can decline significantly in response to adverse issuer, political, regulatory, market, or economic developments. Foreign securities are subject to interest rate, currency exchange rate, economic, and political risks, all of which are magnified in emerging markets."


To me, the above descriptors don't give me any idea that this fund excludes emerging markets, so thanks for the clarification.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jebmke »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:07 am Thanks for the replies. I hate to ask simple questions that one can easily research on their own, but here I feel like Fidelity does not do a good job of clarifying this. Here is what they say about FSPSX, which several have said excludes emerging markets:

"Objective:

Seeks to provide investment results that correspond to the total return of foreign stock markets.

Risk
Stock markets, especially foreign markets, are volatile and can decline significantly in response to adverse issuer, political, regulatory, market, or economic developments. Foreign securities are subject to interest rate, currency exchange rate, economic, and political risks, all of which are magnified in emerging markets."


To me, the above descriptors don't give me any idea that this fund excludes emerging markets, so thanks for the clarification.
Wouldn't this appear in the prospectus? I would think the prospectus would state what index they were benchmarking against and what the investment strategy is.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jeffyscott »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:07 am To me, the above descriptors don't give me any idea that this fund excludes emerging markets, so thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, it's not until the second paragraph of "additional disclosures" on Fidelity's web page for the fund that I see them clarify that the index followed is: ...designed to represent the performance of developed stock markets outside the United States and Canada.

It should certainly say "developed" in the one sentence objective.

In contrast, Schwab's SWISX says:
Objective
The fund’s goal is to track the performance of a benchmark index that measures the total return of large, publicly traded non-U.S. companies from countries with developed equity markets outside of the United States.

(Though, since it also uses the EAFE, they do make the mistake of forgetting Canada exists, is developed, and is not part of the US.)
Last edited by jeffyscott on Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jeffyscott »

jebmke wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:14 am Wouldn't this appear in the prospectus? I would think the prospectus would state what index they were benchmarking against and what the investment strategy is.
The objective is stated the same way in the summary prospectus. I did not read the entire document, but a search for the word "developed" returned nothing.

Under "Principal Investment Strategies" it says: Normally investing at least 80% of assets in common stocks included in the MSCI EAFE Index, which represents the performance of foreign stock markets.

So one would have to know that the EAFE is a developed market index and also ignore the word "total" that appears in the objective.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by TravellingTechOnFire »

Thanks again for the replies and clarifications so far. It does seem that Fidelity could do a better job of making the fund objective more easily understood. Vanguard's fund, in comparison:

VTGMX: Developed Markets Index Fund
Asset Class: International.

Easy peasy.

Additional question. Should any consideration be given as to where an international allocation should be held while accumulating i.e. 401k, IRA, brokerage?

My 401k only offers FTIHX which is Fidelity total international including emerging markets. If I wanted to hold FSPSX, it would have to be within IRA or brokerage.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by muffins14 »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:07 am Thanks for the replies. I hate to ask simple questions that one can easily research on their own, but here I feel like Fidelity does not do a good job of clarifying this. Here is what they say about FSPSX, which several have said excludes emerging markets:

"Objective:

Seeks to provide investment results that correspond to the total return of foreign stock markets.

Risk
Stock markets, especially foreign markets, are volatile and can decline significantly in response to adverse issuer, political, regulatory, market, or economic developments. Foreign securities are subject to interest rate, currency exchange rate, economic, and political risks, all of which are magnified in emerging markets."


To me, the above descriptors don't give me any idea that this fund excludes emerging markets, so thanks for the clarification.
Every product has a page like “portfolio composition”. You can see there that it contains no emerging markets
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by muffins14 »

Are we only talking about 401k here?

If not, you can buy any ETF you want for free, so you can use Vanguard or ishares products too.

For example Vanguard’s VEA or ishares IDEV
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jebmke »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:29 am
jebmke wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:14 am Wouldn't this appear in the prospectus? I would think the prospectus would state what index they were benchmarking against and what the investment strategy is.
The objective is stated the same way in the summary prospectus. I did not read the entire document, but a search for the word "developed" returned nothing.

Under "Principal Investment Strategies" it says: Normally investing at least 80% of assets in common stocks included in the MSCI EAFE Index, which represents the performance of foreign stock markets.

So one would have to know that the EAFE is a developed market index and also ignore the word "total" that appears in the objective.
yes, it does take a little research. On the other hand, we are talking about one's life investments so more research is better than less.

in 2008 I happened to be back in my company's HQ and ran into an admin assistant, then 70 who I thought had retired. She had put all her 401(k) into a fund called "The Diversified Fund" thinking it was diversified. It was 100% equity and performed pretty much like the S&P500. So she was back to work after watching her life savings plunge in 2008. She hadn't read past the title of the fund and assumed it was "diversified."
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by KMoney »

I prefer FTIHX and hold it in my 401k. Since the point of adding International is diversification, I have always thought having some exposure to emerging markets is good. I also remain suspicious of the Fidelity zero funds and prefer having a 3rd party maintain the index.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Harmanic »

Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by retiredjg »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
Canada is not an emerging market. For whatever reason, some "developed markets" indexes do not include Canada.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by retiredjg »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:20 am Additional question. Should any consideration be given as to where an international allocation should be held while accumulating i.e. 401k, IRA, brokerage?
International funds can be held in any account. Some people like to hold them in taxable - to get the foreign tax exclusion. Some people do not like to hold them in taxable because they think that international stocks are less tax-efficient than US stocks.

It depends on your preferences and your portfolio space available.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Harmanic »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:13 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
That's what I was saying. Sorry if I worded it poorly.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm
TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:33 pm Would appreciate input and opinions on *which* international index fund to hold.
Fidelity has five international index funds:
  1. (FTIHX) Fidelity Total International Index Fund (0.06%) -- Complete international stocks
    ____
  2. (FSGGX) Fidelity Global ex U.S. Index Fund (0.055%) -- Almost complete international stocks
    ____
  3. (FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
    ____
  4. (FPADX) Fidelity Emerging Markets Index Fund (0.075%) -- Emerging markets only, ~20% of international stocks
    ____
  5. (FZILX) Fidelity Zero International Index Fund (0.00%) -- Not suitable for taxable accounts
I favor "total market" funds so I would prefer FTIHX. Some people like to choose their developed to emerging ratio so prefer a combination of FSPSX and FPADX. Some don't want emerging so go with just FSPSX.
Thank you Duckie for posting this. I was unaware that Fidelity had a Total International Index fund (FTIHX), I have used their Fidelity Global ex U.S. Index Fund instead for one of my accounts. I know about the others you have listed.
Last edited by nedsaid on Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:13 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
Oh man, you mean that I need to buy a Canada fund now? :wink:
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Harmanic »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:02 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:13 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
Oh man, you mean that I need to buy a Canada fund now? :wink:
Here is an article on the topic. Apparently Schwab, Fidelity and TIAA all use the same MSCI EAFE index that excludes Canada.
https://www.spglobal.com/en/research-in ... allocation
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jeffyscott »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:53 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:13 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
That's what I was saying. Sorry if I worded it poorly.
For whatever reason Canada was never included in the MSCI EAFE index. If you hold an EAFE based fund for developed markets and a separate emerging markets fund then you will hold no Canadian stocks. Also, depending on the index used by the EM fund, you might be missing some others. For example, some indexes put South Korea in EM some in developed, so with certain mixes you will be missing that.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Canada is, however, included in IDEV.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:07 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:53 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:13 am
Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:40 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm [*](FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
____
I didn't realize Canada was lumped into Emerging Markets. It is also excluded from the main Schwab fund, Schwab International Index SWISX.
That's incorrect. Canada is in neither of the two funds.
That's what I was saying. Sorry if I worded it poorly.
For whatever reason Canada was never included in the MSCI EAFE index. If you hold an EAFE based fund for developed markets and a separate emerging markets fund then you will hold no Canadian stocks. Also, depending on the index used by the EM fund, you might be missing some others. For example, some indexes put South Korea in EM some in developed, so with certain mixes you will be missing that.
See, I told everyone here that Bogleheads were index snobs. Their highly cultured and refined taste buds can tell the difference between the various flavors of index funds. You have to swish the contents of the glass just right to get a little bit of air into it. You need just the right flavor of indexes to match the rest of the portfolio. Nedsaid naively believes that "Total" means Total but the reality is maybe not. Last night, I had prime rib but I have no idea what kind of wine would be best for that. I just had coffee with creamer in it. To me, there is Red Wine, White Wine, and Dessert Wine which is sweet. I have similar problems at the coffee shop, I can't pronounce some of the coffees that are offered, I just know that if you put enough sugar and cream in, you can make almost everything taste good. I don't even know how many shots, just know that three is too much.

I told you that my tastes are pretty low brow, I am the guy that once watched local Professional Wrestling on Saturday night and who loves Battlebots. I am just not that cultured and refined. No wonder I never got beyond back bencher status here at the Bogleheads otherwise known as the House of Commons, the snobs sniff me out every time. Certainly, I would never fit at the House of Lords, particularly when they find out that I drive a 1999 Toyota Camry. Certain things you just can't fake, even on an anonymous internet forum. Certain things just come through.

Jeez, I have trouble ordering wine at a nice establishment, coffee at a nice coffee shop, or index funds at Fidelity. And don't get me started on the Factor investors. They are even more snobbish than the average Bogleheads. You can't just order a low cost Small Cap Value fund. I can't fit in here over at the House of Commons (Indexers) or even at the House of Lords (Factor investors). My portfolio shows my rather low brow preferences. Odd, but Rational Reminder is even snootier than Bogleheads.

Sigh!
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Harmanic »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:31 am Jeez, I have trouble ordering wine at a nice establishment, coffee at a nice coffee shop, or index funds at Fidelity. And don't get me started on the Factor investors. They are even more snobbish than the average Bogleheads. You can't just order a low cost Small Cap Value fund. I can't fit in here over at the House of Commons (Indexers) or even at the House of Lords (Factor investors). My portfolio shows my rather low brow preferences. Odd, but Rational Reminder is even snootier than Bogleheads.

Sigh!
Well said Ned.

And Rational Reminder are Canadians.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:19 am
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:31 am Jeez, I have trouble ordering wine at a nice establishment, coffee at a nice coffee shop, or index funds at Fidelity. And don't get me started on the Factor investors. They are even more snobbish than the average Bogleheads. You can't just order a low cost Small Cap Value fund. I can't fit in here over at the House of Commons (Indexers) or even at the House of Lords (Factor investors). My portfolio shows my rather low brow preferences. Odd, but Rational Reminder is even snootier than Bogleheads.

Sigh!
Well said Ned.

And Rational Reminder are Canadians.
I am joking here of course. I do occasionally post at Rational Reminder.

In all seriousness, Canada is a rather important country, I didn't know that there were International Indexes (Total or Developed Market) that left Canada out. My gosh, things I learn here, pretty amazing.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by jeffyscott »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:55 pm In all seriousness, Canada is a rather important country, I didn't know that there were International Indexes (Total or Developed Market) that left Canada out. My gosh, things I learn here, pretty amazing.
I think I learned of that long ago when reading about indexing, back when the only international index was the EAFE. Or at least that was the only one that got any attention and what any international index fund would follow.

It was just presented as a sort of minor curiosity, not really of much importance due to the small size and close correlation with US, I think. As I recall some indicated it was mostly a few natural resources stocks that you'd be missing.

Somewhat related, at that time wasn't Vanguard total international made up of 3 pieces? IIRC, it was the Asia-Pacific index fund (developed), European index fund, and emerging market index fund bolted together. I think there was a set ratio maintained between the three components.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Harmanic »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:02 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:55 pm In all seriousness, Canada is a rather important country, I didn't know that there were International Indexes (Total or Developed Market) that left Canada out. My gosh, things I learn here, pretty amazing.
I think I learned of that long ago when reading about indexing, back when the only international index was the EAFE. Or at least that was the only one that got any attention and what any international index fund would follow.

It was just presented as a sort of minor curiosity, not really of much importance due to the small size and close correlation with US, I think. As I recall some indicated it was mostly a few natural resources stocks that you'd be missing.

Banks, oil companies, natural resources (forest, mining), rail, and pipelines.

Canada's parliament is considering a new law that will force Canadian pensions to hold more Canada stocks, which could give a short term boost to Canadian markets if passed.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:21 pm
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:02 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:55 pm In all seriousness, Canada is a rather important country, I didn't know that there were International Indexes (Total or Developed Market) that left Canada out. My gosh, things I learn here, pretty amazing.
I think I learned of that long ago when reading about indexing, back when the only international index was the EAFE. Or at least that was the only one that got any attention and what any international index fund would follow.

It was just presented as a sort of minor curiosity, not really of much importance due to the small size and close correlation with US, I think. As I recall some indicated it was mostly a few natural resources stocks that you'd be missing.

Banks, oil companies, natural resources (forest, mining), rail, and pipelines.

Canada's parliament is considering a new law that will force Canadian pensions to hold more Canada stocks, which could give a short term boost to Canadian markets if passed.
I guess the answer to the Original Posters question is to buy whatever International Equity Index Fund that has Canada in it. :wink:
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by retired@50 »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:25 pm
I guess the answer to the Original Posters question is to buy whatever International Equity Index Fund that has Canada in it. :wink:
That would be VTMGX / VEA Developed Markets Index fund from Vanguard.

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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by retireIn2020 »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:01 am
Duckie wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:21 pm
TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:33 pm Would appreciate input and opinions on *which* international index fund to hold.
Fidelity has five international index funds:
  1. (FTIHX) Fidelity Total International Index Fund (0.06%) -- Complete international stocks
    ____
  2. (FSGGX) Fidelity Global ex U.S. Index Fund (0.055%) -- Almost complete international stocks
    ____
  3. (FSPSX) Fidelity International Index Fund (0.035%) -- Developed Markets only, ~75% of international stocks, missing 5% Canada
    ____
  4. (FPADX) Fidelity Emerging Markets Index Fund (0.075%) -- Emerging markets only, ~20% of international stocks
    ____
  5. (FZILX) Fidelity Zero International Index Fund (0.00%) -- Not suitable for taxable accounts
I favor "total market" funds so I would prefer FTIHX. Some people like to choose their developed to emerging ratio so prefer a combination of FSPSX and FPADX. Some don't want emerging so go with just FSPSX.
Thank you Duckie for posting this. I was unaware that Fidelity had a Total International Index fund (FTIHX), I have used their Fidelity Global ex U.S. Index Fund instead for one of my accounts. I know about the others you have listed.
I use FZILX, but between these is just splitting hairs. I'm not sure why FTIHX is listed as "Below average" for Returns?
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Valuethinker »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:20 am Thanks again for the replies and clarifications so far. It does seem that Fidelity could do a better job of making the fund objective more easily understood. Vanguard's fund, in comparison:

VTGMX: Developed Markets Index Fund
Asset Class: International.

Easy peasy.

Additional question. Should any consideration be given as to where an international allocation should be held while accumulating i.e. 401k, IRA, brokerage?

My 401k only offers FTIHX which is Fidelity total international including emerging markets. If I wanted to hold FSPSX, it would have to be within IRA or brokerage.
Another way to do this is look at the country holdings.

Taiwan is classified as an EM, I believe. South Korea is an EM in one index (MSCI?) but not in the other (FTSE?). Israel is no longer an EM, I don't think.

Otherwise EM is pretty much what you think it would be: India, Turkey, Mexico. Brasil, China, Indonesia, South Africa, Thailand, Philippines etc. (Russia is excluded from indices now, as it is uninvestable, I think). Not to be confused with "Frontier" markets which even more exotic: Nigeria, Kenya etc.

DM are the usual: Western European stock markets + UK, Canada, Australia, Japan. Greece may have reverted to being "Emerging" with the debt crisis.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by Valuethinker »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:21 pm
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:02 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:55 pm In all seriousness, Canada is a rather important country, I didn't know that there were International Indexes (Total or Developed Market) that left Canada out. My gosh, things I learn here, pretty amazing.
I think I learned of that long ago when reading about indexing, back when the only international index was the EAFE. Or at least that was the only one that got any attention and what any international index fund would follow.

It was just presented as a sort of minor curiosity, not really of much importance due to the small size and close correlation with US, I think. As I recall some indicated it was mostly a few natural resources stocks that you'd be missing.

Banks, oil companies, natural resources (forest, mining), rail, and pipelines.

Canada's parliament is considering a new law that will force Canadian pensions to hold more Canada stocks, which could give a short term boost to Canadian markets if passed.
The Canadian market is mostly a handful of big banks - OK they are good banks (TD etc) but not so very different from US counterparts. On the natural resources front, last time I checked, it was mostly oil sands stocks - so high cost producers. Thus tending to function as a warrant on the oil price - when it's high, the Canadian cos make a lot of money. When it is low, they do not -- they have huge fixed costs and not the same ability to flex activity that the US fracking stocks have.

As you say you then get the big 2 railways, plus pipelines etc. All quite natural-resources dependent.

Is that the Federal Government that is looking at percentages invested? (getting confused, perhaps, in my mind, with Alberta wanting to separate out its pension fund, to invest more in Alberta).

(When pension funds were legally limited on non-Cdn assets, they used derivatives strategies to get around the restrictions. Thus the result was no net effect on investing funds, but an increase in costs for the pension funds. That's why the Feds finally dropped those restrictions (from memory it was 90% Cdn assets, then 80%).

Markets adjust pretty quickly to these things, so by the time the Bill is passed, it's likely that stock markets will have adjusted. TBH I expect such a fierce pushback from Canadian pension funds (the Canadian stock market is very underdiversified) that I imagine the next government will just forget about this.
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Re: [Which Fidelity International equity index funds to hold?]

Post by nedsaid »

retired@50 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:53 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:25 pm
I guess the answer to the Original Posters question is to buy whatever International Equity Index Fund that has Canada in it. :wink:
That would be VTMGX / VEA Developed Markets Index fund from Vanguard.

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