Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 2:39 pm
Godzilla wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 2:31 pm The fact that the entire board fails to identify by far the most important and most interesting proposed change Vanguard is planning gives me hope that I am not as dumb as I usually feel after reading BH posts.
I will say it again - VG is proposing to systematically file, automatically, and without notification to the actual security owner, for inclusion in class action lawsuits. They plan to siphon off 20% of any awards. This is for all customers. They are not charging a fixed fee - they are going to charge a percentage with no ceiling.
How in the world can this board miss the implicatons of this ingenious method to further monetize their customer base?

Godzilla
Because you can opt out of the service if you chose, many people don't participate in class actions at all, and doing it independently to make sure you get the full 100% instead of only 80% of the eventual reward in retrospect often hardly seems worth the time and effort. My last submissions for a class action claim got denied, but only after a significant time investment. This could be a mutually beneficial service for a lot of people. Many will receive funds they wouldn't normally get on their own, and Vanguard will also benefit with a new revenue stream. Where's the problem?
Per the Alan Roth article in this thread, he found the 20% to be a reasonable amount based on his prior experiences.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by billaster »

Godzilla wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 2:31 pm The fact that the entire board fails to identify by far the most important and most interesting proposed change Vanguard is planning gives me hope that I am not as dumb as I usually feel after reading BH posts.
I will say it again - VG is proposing to systematically file, automatically, and without notification to the actual security owner, for inclusion in class action lawsuits. They plan to siphon off 20% of any awards. This is for all customers. They are not charging a fixed fee - they are going to charge a percentage with no ceiling.
How in the world can this board miss the implicatons of this ingenious method to further monetize their customer base?
This is only for class action lawsuits affecting individual securities in your accounts, for example securities fraud. Have you ever received a payment for a class action lawsuit for a security you owned? I haven't so I'm not missing anything. Typically these payments are trivial amounts. What makes you think that 20% even covers the cost of processing it for every individual? Vanguard is paying a third party vendor to process these claims. They have to be paid somehow.

If you don't like it, you can opt out today and jump through the hoops to process your own claims.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by mhc »

I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by stan1 »

mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:58 am I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
I'd guess the number of people doing this is very low. Vanguard ETFs can be purchased with no commission at any major brokerage.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by mhc »

stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:03 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:58 am I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
I'd guess the number of people doing this is very low. Vanguard ETFs can be purchased with no commission at any major brokerage.
Sure, but I have seen people post here that they prefer the mutual funds, so they buy them here and then transfer them to Fidelity. Also, not all Vanguard mutual funds are available as ETFs.

I have seen a lot of rules instituted due to "abusive" behavior of the few. Most of are laws are for the very few.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:21 am
stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:03 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:58 am I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
I'd guess the number of people doing this is very low. Vanguard ETFs can be purchased with no commission at any major brokerage.
Sure, but I have seen people post here that they prefer the mutual funds, so they buy them here and then transfer them to Fidelity. Also, not all Vanguard mutual funds are available as ETFs.

I have seen a lot of rules instituted due to "abusive" behavior of the few. Most of are laws are for the very few.
I have also seen multiple instances of people who held Vanguard mutual funds elsewhere due to transfer or purchase (like at E*Trade) decide they want ETFs instead. Since the tax-free conversion of mutual funds to ETFs can ONLY be done at Vanguard, they have transferred shares into Vanguard, converted them to equivalent ETFs, and then transferred them back out. That's three time- and resource-consuming administrative tasks that Vanguard gained nothing from.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by stan1 »

mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:21 am
stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:03 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:58 am I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
I'd guess the number of people doing this is very low. Vanguard ETFs can be purchased with no commission at any major brokerage.
Sure, but I have seen people post here that they prefer the mutual funds, so they buy them here and then transfer them to Fidelity. Also, not all Vanguard mutual funds are available as ETFs.

I have seen a lot of rules instituted due to "abusive" behavior of the few. Most of are laws are for the very few.
The voices on this forum are often not a good sample set. The group who is fearful of ETFs yet is comfortable with frequent ACATs transfers from Vanguard to another brokerage is likely counted on one or two hands. Converting Vanguard funds to ETF share class is part of the recommended approach for transitioning out of Vanguard that is usually offered as advice (especially for taxable accounts).
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by mhc »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:43 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:21 am
stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:03 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:58 am I don't remember seeing this in this thread.

Vanguard may be charging $100 for a transfer because some people are buying Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard and then immediately transferring them to a different brokerage. Some people are doing this on a regular basis. Maybe Vanguard wants to shut down this behavior.
I'd guess the number of people doing this is very low. Vanguard ETFs can be purchased with no commission at any major brokerage.
Sure, but I have seen people post here that they prefer the mutual funds, so they buy them here and then transfer them to Fidelity. Also, not all Vanguard mutual funds are available as ETFs.

I have seen a lot of rules instituted due to "abusive" behavior of the few. Most of are laws are for the very few.
I have also seen multiple instances of people who held Vanguard mutual funds elsewhere due to transfer or purchase (like at E*Trade) decide they want ETFs instead. Since the tax-free conversion of mutual funds to ETFs can ONLY be done at Vanguard, they have transferred shares into Vanguard, converted them to equivalent ETFs, and then transferred them back out. That's three time- and resource-consuming administrative tasks that Vanguard gained nothing from.
Sounds like a good reason to charge the fee.

Since Vanguard has left us to speculate, we all are guessing why. Brokerages, like most businesses, want customers to stay. There are probably a number of behaviors that has caused Vanguard to institute the $100 fee.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by stan1 »

mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 11:42 am Sounds like a good reason to charge the fee.

Since Vanguard has left us to speculate, we all are guessing why. Brokerages, like most businesses, want customers to stay. There are probably a number of behaviors that has caused Vanguard to institute the $100 fee.
Vanguard makes money off asset management (funds) and paid advice services (digital advisor, PAS). They don't generally make money from being a no commission brokerage. Vanguard is fine with people holding Vanguard ETFs at other brokerages. Their first focus is on growing assets under management (managing funds), not assets under administration (brokerage, call center, record keeping, websites, tax forms).
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by mmse »

stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 12:04 pm Vanguard makes money off asset management (funds) and paid advice services (digital advisor, PAS). They don't generally make money from being a no commission brokerage. Vanguard is fine with people holding Vanguard ETFs at other brokerages. Their first focus is on growing assets under management (managing funds), not assets under administration (brokerage, call center, record keeping, websites, tax forms).
This is not quite clear. A recent thread "Fidelity introducing fees on ETFs from 9 firms" suggests a possibility that by providing their own brokerage accounts, Vanguard may be saving on the fees they would have to pay to other brokerages otherwise.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by HanSolo »

stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 11:01 am
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:21 am Sure, but I have seen people post here that they prefer the mutual funds, so they buy them here and then transfer them to Fidelity. Also, not all Vanguard mutual funds are available as ETFs.
The group who is fearful of ETFs yet is comfortable with frequent ACATs transfers from Vanguard to another brokerage is likely counted on one or two hands.
Or zero hands. Nobody said they're "fearful of ETFs". I'm not. But my largest holding is VBIAX, no ETF for that.
stan1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 12:04 pm Vanguard is fine with people holding Vanguard ETFs at other brokerages.
Nobody said or implied otherwise.

So we're left with the following as a possibility (or at least nobody said why this may not be the case):
mhc wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 11:42 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:43 am ... That's three time- and resource-consuming administrative tasks that Vanguard gained nothing from.
Sounds like a good reason to charge the fee.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by cowdogman »

Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Rocinante Rider »

cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by cowdogman »

Rocinante Rider wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 pm
cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
Thanks. Found it by searching the text you quote above. Link is https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... dal-assets then click "See what Vanguard assets qualify for these services".
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by rkhusky »

cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:11 pm
Rocinante Rider wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 pm
cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
Thanks. Found it by searching the text you quote above. Link is https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... dal-assets then click "See what Vanguard assets qualify for these services".
If you have $5M, you can get paper statements with no $25 annual fee. Or get e-statements with no $25 annual fee and no minimum account balance.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by calwatch »

Has anyone elsewhere been charged an account closure fee that has made their balance go below negative? As opposed to an overdraft fee or something similar. You do occasionally see early closure fees for credit unions and banks, but I have never seen anyone be charged an account closure fee once there is nothing left to take, if there was that then there would be a minimum balance imposed, which Vanguard does not and still will not have (after the initial minimum is met).
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by whodidntante »

Fidelity keeping it real by funneling business to a competitor. :P
https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/i ... TH38738050
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Rocinante Rider »

whodidntante wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:46 pm Fidelity keeping it real by funneling business to a competitor. :P
https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/i ... TH38738050
Also from Benzinga on 12/28/2023:
"SPY ETF On Track For $500B Milestone, Boosted By S&P 500's Peak Performance, Record Inflows In 2023"

And from etf.com less than 2 months ago:
"SPY Again Tops Inflows, LQD Has Most Outflows: ETF Fund Flows as of March 28, 2024"

Seems inconsistent. From "record" and "top" inflows in Dec. 2023 and March 2024 to a "seismic shift" with "significant outflows since the beginning of the year" in May 2024. I don't know if this meaningful, just random noise, or financial "porn." I'm with VOO and VTI all the way, so doesn't mean much to me either way.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by TexasRads »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 3:27 pm This thread is a restart of the locked thread: New Vanguard Fees? Use this thread only for your comments.

After receiving member feedback and further moderator review, use of generative AI to provide comments (i.e. "fact checking") will not be permitted. The prior discussion was derailed. Humans only for this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil and state your concerns in a factual manner.


Below is a complete copy of Vanguard's email - I received one as well. For privacy concerns, I have modified the links to remove the email tracking info.
==============================================

Notice of updated commission and fee schedules and account agreement for Vanguard Brokerage Services

Dear Vanguard Brokerage Client,

We want to make you aware that we have updated the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement and associated commission and fee schedules. These updates include changes to our Digital Interaction Expectations, new Class Action Service Terms, and Vanguard Brokerage's ability to close accounts, including low balance accounts with no activity.

Effective July 1, 2024, the following commission schedule changes will take effect:
  • Broker-assisted commission: A $25 broker-assisted commission will be charged for each Vanguard mutual fund1 and Vanguard ETF® (exchange-traded fund) trade placed over the phone and for closing transactions placed by Vanguard Brokerage Services® to cover a margin call or satisfy an outstanding debt owed in your brokerage account.* This broker-assisted commission is consistent with our existing policy on trading stocks and other products.
  • Certificate deposit fee: A $100 processing fee (per CUSIP) will be charged for the deposit of physical share certificates into your brokerage account.
  • Class action service fee: With the introduction of this new service in which Vanguard Brokerage will facilitate filing claims on behalf of clients in an attempt to recover class action settlement funds, a fee of 20% will be deducted from these recovered funds prior to their deposit into your brokerage account. See the Notice of Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement ("Account Agreement Amendment") for details on the service.
  • Foreign securities and American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) dividends fee: A fee of 1% on the gross dividend amount will be charged when a dividend is paid on a foreign or ADR asset held in U.S. dollars.
  • Restricted security legend removal fee: A $250 processing fee may be charged for research and removal of a restriction on a security held in your brokerage account.
  • Account closure and transfer fee: A $100 processing fee may be charged for account closure or transfer of account assets to another firm.**
Effective June 1, 2024, the following commission schedule change will take effect:
  • The tax filing fee for master limited partnerships (MLPs) held in an IRA will change from $300 to $500 per account.
You can obtain an updated copy of the Vanguard Brokerage Services commission and fee schedules here and read more about these important account agreement updates in the Account Agreement Amendment.

Please note that the updates discussed in this communication apply to all your accounts maintained with Vanguard Brokerage Services.

Thank you for belonging to the Vanguard community of investors.

 -------------------------
* Broker-assisted commissions will not be charged for brokerage accounts enrolled in a Vanguard-affiliated advisory service or for clients with $1 million or more in qualifying Vanguard assets.

** The fee will not be assessed for clients who hold at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.

1 For Vanguard mutual fund exchanges, the commission will be charged on the "from" side of the transaction based on the total number of trades placed. For some mutual fund transactions, the commission will be deducted as a separate sweep from your settlement fund. It will not apply to some complex Vanguard mutual fund transactions, including those across registration types.
Did anyone clarify if the 1% fee on Foreign securities and American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) dividends is applicable to funds like vxus?
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by sycamore »

TexasRads wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 10:00 pm ...
Did anyone clarify if the 1% fee on Foreign securities and American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) dividends is applicable to funds like vxus?
Yes several people have clarified the fee. It is not applicable to funds like vxus.

Here's one reference: https://www.etf.com/sections/advisor-ce ... allan-roth
Foreign securities and American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) dividends fee isn't a charge for owning a fund such as the Vanguard Total International Stock ETF (VXUS), Vanguard confirmed for me. ADRs are U.S. dollar-denominated certificates that trade on American stock exchanges and track the price of a foreign company's domestic shares.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Nver2Late »

Rocinante Rider wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 pm
cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
I would caution to check the account registrations on each brokerage account.

We should have been Flagship since 2020, but still are not. Working with the rep, after transition we have 8 different registrations (that look exactly the same on the Vanguard website) but are somehow different in their system, so they are not aggregating them together or aggregating DWs and mine.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Rocinante Rider »

Nver2Late wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 10:56 am
Rocinante Rider wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 pm
cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
I would caution to check the account registrations on each brokerage account.

We should have been Flagship since 2020, but still are not. Working with the rep, after transition we have 8 different registrations (that look exactly the same on the Vanguard website) but are somehow different in their system, so they are not aggregating them together or aggregating DWs and mine.
I'm not sure why having different registrations on the accounts is an issue. There's four of us, each with taxable and/or IRA and Roth accounts registered only in their names, and at least one jointly registered account, but all with the same address. I do have limited authorization on others' accounts so that may be making it easier for the system to recognize them as a group, but having limited or full authorization shouldn't make a difference.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Nver2Late »

Rocinante Rider wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 11:19 am
Nver2Late wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 10:56 am
Rocinante Rider wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 pm
cowdogman wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:58 pm Sorry if this has been answered above (I looked) but does the $5 million in "qualifying accounts" count both spouses' accounts (including IRAs)?

For example if together the spouses have more than $5 million but one or both spouses individually have balances below $5 million will the non-qualifying spouse(s) be subject to the $25 "Account Service Fee" for each account?

You would think this would be clear on the website, but I couldn't find it. It may be buried in some pdf boilerplate, but I couldn't find that either.
It is clear on the website. It's based on "qualifying assets," which include Vanguard mutual funds and Vanguard ETFs plus all assets managed by Vanguard Personal Advisor. The total is determined by combining the qualifying assets of "clients who share your residential address." So yes, if you and a spouse, children, etc., have the same address it all counts toward the 5M.
I would caution to check the account registrations on each brokerage account.

We should have been Flagship since 2020, but still are not. Working with the rep, after transition we have 8 different registrations (that look exactly the same on the Vanguard website) but are somehow different in their system, so they are not aggregating them together or aggregating DWs and mine.
I'm not sure why having different registrations on the accounts is an issue. There's four of us, each with taxable and/or IRA and Roth accounts registered only in their names, and at least one jointly registered account, but all with the same address. I do have limited authorization on others' accounts so that may be making it easier for the system to recognize them as a group, but having limited or full authorization shouldn't make a difference.
I agree it shouldn't but there appears to be an issue. All our accounts except one were created by paper application pre-internet. Technically you're right, the two kids accounts should also be aggregated but I wasn't even considering those. What we see for the address looks the same, but there must be something slightly different in the background that is causing the aggregation not to work. It doesn't make sense, but the CSR couldn't help so I suspect its an IT backend issue.

To muddy the water a bit more, I executed an exchange in one account on Friday and the confirmation notification was sent to an old email address that does not show up in my account on the Vanguard website. I don't tweak my accounts often, so this was the first trade post-transition on that specific brokerage account. As such, I think there is information associated to the account in the backend that we don't see.
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tj
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by tj »

Evidently Vanguard still considers me in Voyager class even though I haven't had a funded account in almost two years - as I received email to update my beneficiaries. It does seem to show that I have a $0 Rollover IRA (I had converted everything from that account to Roth at some point)
jebmke
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by jebmke »

Nver2Late wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 11:38 am To muddy the water a bit more, I executed an exchange in one account on Friday and the confirmation notification was sent to an old email address that does not show up in my account on the Vanguard website. I don't tweak my accounts often, so this was the first trade post-transition on that specific brokerage account. As such, I think there is information associated to the account in the backend that we don't see.
I don't think, I know. Last year I noticed that I could not set alerts on my account. When I contacted VG via secure message they got right back to me and said that my old address in Brussels is still in the system as a "backup" address (I don't know or particularly care what that is.) Since it isn't displayed anywhere I need to call them and arrange to have it deleted off the profile.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
fufgirl
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by fufgirl »

Curly wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 7:25 pm Hello,

You can close accounts online without contacting VG. Log in and go to the upper right of the screen and look for the circle (profile and account settings) to the left of "Log Off".

Click on that and then go to "Accounts & Trading".

Click on that and you will see "Close Account" on the left side.

What I have learned by using this feature is that it won't close the account if you still have dividends or other earnings owed to you. Once the final earnings post, you will be able to close the account.

Hopefully, this works for you.

Weathering wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 5:14 pm This month,I’ve transferred out a few accounts from Vanguard. Now their balance is zero. Do I also need to close the empty accounts at Vanguard to avoid the fee starting soon? (Not sure how to close an account, didn’t see any option on the website).
So....are we going to end up paying the closure fees with dividends that haven't posted yet to our 0$ accounts? I can't imagine that being the case. I thought I saw where if you say you want the whole account transferred etc. dividends that post after the transfer do eventually get sent over to the new custodian as well?
gavinsiu
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by gavinsiu »

Out of curiosity, what are fees on Vanguard's competitors? When I transferred my mom's account from Fidelity to Schwab back in the 90's they charged a $10 termination fee on IRA. Did these fee short of disappeared over the decades? I don't recall seeing termination fee when I transfer funds from other firms.

I think the $5M is probably bad in terms of publicity. It makes Vanguard sound like they are not for the average guy. What if in the future they implement a minimum account fee from banks for balance under $500K or something.
caliguy1
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Question about Vanguard's new fee, 1% on ADR dividends

Post by caliguy1 »

[Thread merge into here --admin LadyGeek]

Hi,

Does anyone know if Vanguard's new fee, 1% on ADR dividends, only applies to OTC stocks that end in Y like Nestle NSRGY? Or would it like also apply to international companies that list on NYSE like British Petroleum, BP, for example?

Thanks
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged caliguy1's thread into the ongoing discussion.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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nalor511
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by nalor511 »

gavinsiu wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 6:13 pm Out of curiosity, what are fees on Vanguard's competitors? When I transferred my mom's account from Fidelity to Schwab back in the 90's they charged a $10 termination fee on IRA. Did these fee short of disappeared over the decades? I don't recall seeing termination fee when I transfer funds from other firms.

I think the $5M is probably bad in terms of publicity. It makes Vanguard sound like they are not for the average guy. What if in the future they implement a minimum account fee from banks for balance under $500K or something.
Fidelity has no transfer fee. Schwab recently dropped partial to $0, full is $50.
sycamore
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by sycamore »

nalor511 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 6:15 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 6:13 pm Out of curiosity, what are fees on Vanguard's competitors? When I transferred my mom's account from Fidelity to Schwab back in the 90's they charged a $10 termination fee on IRA. Did these fee short of disappeared over the decades? I don't recall seeing termination fee when I transfer funds from other firms.

I think the $5M is probably bad in terms of publicity. It makes Vanguard sound like they are not for the average guy. What if in the future they implement a minimum account fee from banks for balance under $500K or something.
Fidelity has no transfer fee. Schwab recently dropped partial to $0, full is $50.
$75 at ETrade.
shahhere
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by shahhere »

I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
rkhusky
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by rkhusky »

shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by exodusNH »

destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by student »

I guess I am not being discriminated against. I finally received the email today regarding the change.
TravelFund
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by TravelFund »

exodusNH wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:57 am
destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
Trying to be helpful at the risk of hijacking this post (moderators feel free to let me know if I'm breaking any rules).

I just got back from Merrill to transfer my Vanguard funds (to avoid the new fees and for Platinum Honors). There is a new bonus of up to $1,000 for both new accounts and new money to existing accounts. The code is PR1000. I didn't see it on the Merrill site but the Financial Solutions Advisor found it, applied it, and printed out (for my DH) when I asked if there were any promotions. Never hurts to ask sometimes :D
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Curly »

A Vanguard rep told me that account access would continue to work after closure of any account, only to be able to download tax forms once they are available.

Re: your Q about closing and dividends, my experience has been that the system won't allow an account to be closed if there are still dividends to be paid. And once those dividends are paid and moved out of VG, then the account will close.

That is how it worked for the accounts I have closed.

rkhusky wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:48 am
shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by jebmke »

TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:12 am
exodusNH wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:57 am
destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
Trying to be helpful at the risk of hijacking this post (moderators feel free to let me know if I'm breaking any rules).

I just got back from Merrill to transfer my Vanguard funds (to avoid the new fees and for Platinum Honors). There is a new bonus of up to $1,000 for both new accounts and new money to existing accounts. The code is PR1000. I didn't see it on the Merrill site but the Financial Solutions Advisor found it, applied it, and printed out (for my DH) when I asked if there were any promotions. Never hurts to ask sometimes :D
Sounds good. Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
TravelFund
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by TravelFund »

jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am
TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:12 am
exodusNH wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:57 am
destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
Trying to be helpful at the risk of hijacking this post (moderators feel free to let me know if I'm breaking any rules).

I just got back from Merrill to transfer my Vanguard funds (to avoid the new fees and for Platinum Honors). There is a new bonus of up to $1,000 for both new accounts and new money to existing accounts. The code is PR1000. I didn't see it on the Merrill site but the Financial Solutions Advisor found it, applied it, and printed out (for my DH) when I asked if there were any promotions. Never hurts to ask sometimes :D
Sounds good. Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee -- which yes is $100, but I don't like getting nickeled and dimed. I've liked Vanguard and appreciate how they opened up low cost, index fund investing and kept money there because I was familiar with how to do things. At the end of the day other places let me invest similarly, more easily, and with less fees and more perks, so I decided to consolidate and close my remaining Roth at Vanguard. The $100 future fee was the proverbial last straw. I do wish them well!
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by rkhusky »

TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:30 am
jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am
TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:12 am
exodusNH wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:57 am
destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
Trying to be helpful at the risk of hijacking this post (moderators feel free to let me know if I'm breaking any rules).

I just got back from Merrill to transfer my Vanguard funds (to avoid the new fees and for Platinum Honors). There is a new bonus of up to $1,000 for both new accounts and new money to existing accounts. The code is PR1000. I didn't see it on the Merrill site but the Financial Solutions Advisor found it, applied it, and printed out (for my DH) when I asked if there were any promotions. Never hurts to ask sometimes :D
Sounds good. Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee -- which yes is $100, but I don't like getting nickeled and dimed. I've liked Vanguard and appreciate how they opened up low cost, index fund investing and kept money there because I was familiar with how to do things. At the end of the day other places let me invest similarly, more easily, and with less fees and more perks, so I decided to consolidate and close my remaining Roth at Vanguard. The $100 future fee was the proverbial last straw. I do wish them well!
You only pay the $100 fee if you move accounts, not if you stay. And it’s likely that the new brokerage would pay the fee for you anyway. So, the $100 fee is pretty much a nothing burger for most people.
dh
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by dh »

rkhusky wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:48 am
shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
A Vanguard representative encouraged me to leave the accounts open so that I can access tax forms next year. One account was a rollover IRA that I converted to Roth, another account was a small inherited IRA that I redeemed, leaving a zero balance in both accounts. I don't believe there is any reason to close the account (please correct me if I am wrong). If you don't want to see it, you can easily hide the account in view preferences.

I have to admit that I am still confused about the $100 fee. Does it apply to transferring an account to another brokerage firm? Does it apply to an account that has been closed? Or both? I am seeing both discussed in this thread.
felizcortez
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by felizcortez »

dh wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:39 pm
rkhusky wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:48 am
shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
A Vanguard representative encouraged me to leave the accounts open so that I can access tax forms next year. One account was a rollover IRA that I converted to Roth, another account was a small inherited IRA that I redeemed, leaving a zero balance in both accounts. I don't believe there is any reason to close the account (please correct me if I am wrong). If you don't want to see it, you can easily hide the account in view preferences.

I have to admit that I am still confused about the $100 fee. Does it apply to transferring an account to another brokerage firm? Does it apply to an account that has been closed? Or both? I am seeing both discussed in this thread.
I reached out to Vanguard regarding the account closure fee because I have a brokerage account with a few thousand dollars in it and a traditional IRA with zero dollars in it that I was concerned Vanguard would close and charge me the $100 fee.

Below is their response.

Code: Select all

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

>>>Closing inactive accounts>>>

I can confirm that Vanguard’s system is programmed to automatically close certain inactive accounts after a certain period of inactivity. The auto closures occur annually, usually in October. 

>>>Account closure fee>>>

The $100 fee for account transfer and closure of accounts only applies when completing a full transfer of all assets in a brokerage account to another firm. After the transfer is complete, the Vanguard account is automatically closed.

We are assessing the transfer and account closure fee to align with industry practices, to help offset some of the costs associated with transferring assets to another firm.

If you are not transferring any assets, and are just closing a Vanguard account, this fee does not apply. Since no assets would be transferred, there would be no fee to assess.

You can access our commission and fee schedules online at:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-benefits/brokerage-fees-commissions
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Rocinante Rider »

TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:30 am
jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee
So no other fees at Vanguard that you're escaping from, other than the potential transfer fee if you chose to leave in the future?
What fees will you have at Merrill? I assume Merrill has some way to recoup much more than the 1k they'll be paying you for the transfer in. Will you be using their advisor services with AUMs of 1% or more? I don't understand how fees and expenses will be lower at Merrill.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by jebmke »

Rocinante Rider wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:52 pm
TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:30 am
jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee
So no other fees at Vanguard that you're escaping from, other than the potential transfer fee if you chose to leave in the future?
What fees will you have at Merrill? I assume Merrill has some way to recoup much more than the 1k they'll be paying you for the transfer in. Will you be using their advisor services with AUMs of 1% or more? I don't understand how fees and expenses will be lower at Merrill.
For me, if I had reasons to transfer I would have done it already or have a plan in place to do it -- probably the former since there hasn't been anything substantive in the last several weeks that would have triggered me one way or another. The emergence of a $100 exit fee would not cause me to accelerate my plan or create a new one to leave.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
shahhere
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by shahhere »

rkhusky wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:48 am
shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
Closing those should close out the entire account? or access to those documents?

Isnt this counter to closing them to avoid the $100 lol.

Shahhere
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Random Poster »

felizcortez wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:45 pm
I reached out to Vanguard regarding the account closure fee because I have a brokerage account with a few thousand dollars in it and a traditional IRA with zero dollars in it that I was concerned Vanguard would close and charge me the $100 fee.

Below is their response.

Code: Select all

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

>>>Closing inactive accounts>>>

I can confirm that Vanguard’s system is programmed to automatically close certain inactive accounts after a certain period of inactivity. The auto closures occur annually, usually in October. 

>>>Account closure fee>>>

The $100 fee for account transfer and closure of accounts only applies when completing a full transfer of all assets in a brokerage account to another firm. After the transfer is complete, the Vanguard account is automatically closed.

We are assessing the transfer and account closure fee to align with industry practices, to help offset some of the costs associated with transferring assets to another firm.

If you are not transferring any assets, and are just closing a Vanguard account, this fee does not apply. Since no assets would be transferred, there would be no fee to assess.

You can access our commission and fee schedules online at:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-benefits/brokerage-fees-commissions
If the “ $100 fee for account transfer and closure of accounts only applies when completing a full transfer of all assets in a brokerage account to another firm,” then what is to keep someone from:

1) Buying $3,000 of some Vanguard money market fund in their brokerage account; then

2) Transfer out all holdings in the brokerage account except for the Vanguard money market holding (which likely be accepted for transfer at another brokerage anyway); then

3) After the transfer-out has settled, do an ACH-out of the money market to their bank; then

4) Close out the entire brokerage account.

Seems like that process would avoid getting charged the $100 transfer out fee, based on the above response from Vanguard.
Most experiences are better imagined.
rkhusky
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by rkhusky »

TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:30 am
jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am
TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:12 am
exodusNH wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:57 am
destin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:29 pm When I first joined Vanguard, the structure was simple. No fees except for the most fringe cases. But for the past several year they added fees and more fees and a well documented decline in services.
Anecdotally, I've called them twice in the last two weeks. First call was for a mutual fund to ETF conversion in prep to move some assets to Merrill Edge to get Platinum Honors. Yesterday, I called about a matured CD.

I spent no more than 10 minutes on the phone in both cases and had my issue resolved.
Trying to be helpful at the risk of hijacking this post (moderators feel free to let me know if I'm breaking any rules).

I just got back from Merrill to transfer my Vanguard funds (to avoid the new fees and for Platinum Honors). There is a new bonus of up to $1,000 for both new accounts and new money to existing accounts. The code is PR1000. I didn't see it on the Merrill site but the Financial Solutions Advisor found it, applied it, and printed out (for my DH) when I asked if there were any promotions. Never hurts to ask sometimes :D
Sounds good. Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee -- which yes is $100, but I don't like getting nickeled and dimed. I've liked Vanguard and appreciate how they opened up low cost, index fund investing and kept money there because I was familiar with how to do things. At the end of the day other places let me invest similarly, more easily, and with less fees and more perks, so I decided to consolidate and close my remaining Roth at Vanguard. The $100 future fee was the proverbial last straw. I do wish them well!
Merrill charges $50 for account closures and transfers. Plus has a lot of fees for other things too. You will be nickeled and dimed everywhere.
Last edited by rkhusky on Wed May 22, 2024 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rkhusky
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by rkhusky »

shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:11 pm
rkhusky wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:48 am
shahhere wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 8:10 am I had Traditional IRA and Roth accounts for several family members at Vanguard and at Fidelity and a few brokerage accounts as well at Vanguard.

I transferred most of them at Fidelity and are at zero at Vanguard. Do I need to close them out now before this June 1st deadline? or can they stay open in the event for any Dividends etc? Trying to consolidate and not point in paying the $100 fee per account if it applies.

Shahhere
I suggest you keep them open if you want access to tax forms next year.
Closing those should close out the entire account? or access to those documents?

Isnt this counter to closing them to avoid the $100 lol.

Shahhere
No fee if Vanguard closes for zero balance.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by Rocinante Rider »

jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:00 pm
Rocinante Rider wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:52 pm
TravelFund wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:30 am
jebmke wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 am Setting aside the transfer bonus -- what fees will you personally be avoiding?
Primarily the transfer fee
So no other fees at Vanguard that you're escaping from, other than the potential transfer fee if you chose to leave in the future?
What fees will you have at Merrill? I assume Merrill has some way to recoup much more than the 1k they'll be paying you for the transfer in. Will you be using their advisor services with AUMs of 1% or more? I don't understand how fees and expenses will be lower at Merrill.
For me, if I had reasons to transfer I would have done it already or have a plan in place to do it -- probably the former since there hasn't been anything substantive in the last several weeks that would have triggered me one way or another. The emergence of a $100 exit fee would not cause me to accelerate my plan or create a new one to leave.
Yes, I agree. It makes no sense to me either that some people are fleeing from the possibility of paying $100 in the future and into the certainty of paying perhaps thousands/year more in ongoing extra fees right now. I understand that people might have other reasons to leave Vanguard, but I have a hard time understanding how fees could be one of the reasons. And whenever I hear about transfer bonuses, I assume that the payer is giving with one hand and taking back even more with the other.
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Re: Vanguard Notice - Update to Brokerage Agreement, Commission and Fee Schedules

Post by calwatch »

Rocinante Rider wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:43 pm Yes, I agree. It makes no sense to me either that some people are fleeing from the possibility of paying $100 in the future and into the certainty of paying perhaps thousands/year more in ongoing extra fees right now. I understand that people might have other reasons to leave Vanguard, but I have a hard time understanding how fees could be one of the reasons. And whenever I hear about transfer bonuses, I assume that the payer is giving with one hand and taking back even more with the other.
I have been with Merrill Edge for over a decade now and have not been nickel and dimed. If you hold ETFs, it is the same everywhere. Merrill does not support purchasing shares down to the penny, as opposed to whole numbers of shares, and their sales of partial shares to close a position is kind of wonky, but the benefit of the credit card bonus (with Premium Rewards, discussed in the separate thread) is worthwhile. And, as stated here, the Merrill $50 transfer fee is half that of Vanguard's. The nickel and diming does come in the money market rates, and having to purchase Merrill's proprietary fund rather than having it automatically sweep, but that doesn't apply for most investors.
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