Worried about vanguard

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

The OP hasn't posted in this thread since Page 1 over a week ago. But haven't we all enjoyed arguing with each other about something pointless and making no tangible progress toward changing anyone's mind? I know I have!
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welderwannabe
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by welderwannabe »

HanSolo wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 5:49 am If your meaning is that Vanguard doesn't have any "zero" funds (0.00% ER), like at Fidelity, then yeah. But it looks like those "zero" funds are subsidized by what Fidelity charges by way of fees and/or higher ER's in their other funds. In other words, somebody else is paying for your zero fund. Or you're paying for somebody else's.
Not just the zero funds, most of Fidelity's index funds are cheaper than their Vanguard equivalent. Their total stock market fund is half the cost of Vanguard's VTI.

The forum (not saying you) loves to talk about VG's cheaper MM funds compared to Fidelity, but ignores all of the other index funds at Fidelity that are cheaper.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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welderwannabe
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by welderwannabe »

lostcoast2023 wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 7:16 pm I keep a similar level of cash at Fidelity. $100 a year is well worth it for the better website alone, but nobody would pay that if was charged as a annual technology fee.
I keep low six figures worth of cash. Always have been a cash guy, makes me sleep soundly.
Aside from banking needs, my cash is all at fidelity and has been for years. I value the ATM/debit card and check writing privileges and its well worth it to me to lose 30bp of yield to keep those features. Fidelity's cash management product is solid. I also have a local fidelity branch I've walked into a few times for things.

The bulk of my investments are with Vanguard however, just mainly because thats where they've always been. They've always been helpful when I have called, but boy does their website and app stink.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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HanSolo
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by HanSolo »

welderwannabe wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:10 am
HanSolo wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 5:49 am If your meaning is that Vanguard doesn't have any "zero" funds (0.00% ER), like at Fidelity, then yeah. But it looks like those "zero" funds are subsidized by what Fidelity charges by way of fees and/or higher ER's in their other funds. In other words, somebody else is paying for your zero fund. Or you're paying for somebody else's.
Not just the zero funds, most of Fidelity's index funds are cheaper than their Vanguard equivalent. Their total stock market fund is half the cost of Vanguard's VTI.

The forum (not saying you) loves to talk about VG's cheaper MM funds compared to Fidelity, but ignores all of the other index funds at Fidelity that are cheaper.
Nobody ignores that. Apparently, everyone here knows that there are certain funds at Fidelity that are cheaper. It's been discussed. Nobody said otherwise.

They also know about the aforementioned subsidy arrangement (well, maybe some didn't).

It's interesting that, while Fidelity has the ability to offer select mutual funds at a lower cost than Vanguard, they still charge more than quadruple of Vanguard across their fund lineup (Vanguard at 0.09% and Fidelity at 0.40%, according to Morningstar).
oakbluffs wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 5:27 pm And that begs the question, what do we get for Vanguard’s unique profit sharing structure?
What are Fidelity's customers (in the aggregate) getting in exchange for paying quadruple?

My suggestion is, let's not ignore anything (except the noise, of course).
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MadHungarian
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by MadHungarian »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 11:35 pm The OP hasn't posted in this thread since Page 1 over a week ago. But haven't we all enjoyed arguing with each other about something pointless and making no tangible progress toward changing anyone's mind? I know I have!
Then there's the Domestic Vs International debate thread that's been going on for 6009 posts now with presumably no progress either.
Wtlutz
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by Wtlutz »

Total AUM
US$8.1 trillion
The Vanguard Group

30 million+ shareholders
The company is owned by its funds; the funds are owned by the shareholders. This means that its shareholders are the actual owners.
Johnnycallison
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by Johnnycallison »

I think Vanguard needs to get their employees back in the office full time. There are some goofing off on the Monday and Friday work from home days.
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by GaryA505 »

Johnnycallison wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:18 pm I think Vanguard needs to get their employees back in the office full time. There are some goofing off on the Monday and Friday work from home days.
I had to work with a Vanguard rep to get a transfer completed yesterday (Monday 5/13). I first contacted them via chat and they set up a call back. It was less than 10 minutes for the call back. The rep handled the problem correctly and quickly. I don't know if they were working from home.
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1789
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by 1789 »

GaryA505 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 11:02 am
Johnnycallison wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:18 pm I think Vanguard needs to get their employees back in the office full time. There are some goofing off on the Monday and Friday work from home days.
I had to work with a Vanguard rep to get a transfer completed yesterday (Monday 5/13). I first contacted them via chat and they set up a call back. It was less than 10 minutes for the call back. The rep handled the problem correctly and quickly. I don't know if they were working from home.
Same. Chat and a call back to finish what I needed took 10 mins total. am NOT worried about Vanguard at all.

Here is a surprising comment from the rep

"Just making sure you checked your own state's 529 benefits before you transfer your 529 accounts to Vanguard". You will never hear anything like that from a Fidelity rep.
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an interchange conjecturing on the misspelling of a Vanguard employee's name.
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avei
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Re: Worried about vanguard

Post by avei »

I just read through this thread on the ongoing changes at Vanguard. The $100 closure fee, while not a deal breaker is an annoyance.
I am one of those "small number" who do have an individual 401k plan, and Vanguard has a part of that plan, for now. I started with etrade who messed up in a big way which caused me to dump them. In my original search for a place for the i401k, I had several show stoppers. Etrade met all these criteria. Etrade also used Ascensus' IRS approved 401(k) prototype plan. Vanguard was ruled out because of one of the show stoppers, I forget which one, as was Schwab and Fidelity. Each had one of the three showstoppers.

I invested in VG at the Flagship level with Roth IRAs and a taxable account. Then when I moved the i401k out of Etrade, I did something different. I bought Ascensus' Prototype Plan and its update subscription to keep the plan current with IRS updates (3 year cycle). This allowed me to open accounts at VG to handle the reg 401k sub, which have significant funds in them, the ultimate plan is to roll over the entire kaboodle into the Roth IRAs, either directly or as a taxable conversion, which will happen before RMD age or the present tax code reverts, whichever comes first. That home was to be Vanguard since I have substantial assets in the trust account there.

The etrade funds moved two places: Vanguard and Schwab. Schwab was more than happy to set up the accounts I needed for me with appropriate master and roth401k and regular 401k sub accounts. They do no record keeping, they simply set up the accounts controlled by the i401k documents, which makes me the plan admin and the record keeper/trustee/custodian. Schwab also assisted me in getting the securities out of etrade which was no small matter made more complicated by the Morgan Stanley acquisition. In return, I am responsible for everything: 5500EZ, 1099R generation, tax withholding, book keeping, plan admin, everything, a minor pain but I have a "checkbook" 401k and full control. Essentially everything I have to do anyway as a small business owner.

I also have a couple of zero balance IRA accounts which are used for Roth backdoor conversions. These carry a zero balance except for a few days each January with a non-deductable IRA contribution and Vanguard has an excellent means of rolling these funds over on line immediately into the Roths. So, $400 to close out the obsoleted accounts isn't a big deal, but, if VG decides $100 (pretty steep) isn't enough and says, maybe we don't the little guys with less than say, $5M lets just raise the $100 to $500? I like VG traditional funds which is what brought me here, but the uncertainty of what VG will do with its fee structure at this point in my orbit is not something I want to worry about. VG has been good to me too, but it is decidedly less so, with recent changes.

Schwab has been very very good to me and is the current holder of my nearly all of the solo 401k accounts.

My fear with Vanguard is, what next? The emphasis/steerage toward ESG, now fees, makes me wonder if I should move the remaining assets to Schwab. It's like potholes: they start with a little dip in the asphalt, then a big dip until suddenly, it's huge. I'll stay the course for now, but I'll also do something I loath as a buy and holder: Watch them like a hawk.

I wonder if they will close my zero balance traditional IRAs and charge me a hundred bucks a piece for doing it? I asked that question specifically and got no answer. If they charge me I will be decidedly unhappy about it and that will end VG for me. Fidelity has comparable funds, a wee more expensive in fees, but a wee better in returns...it balances.
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