Need Lighting Specialist Help

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Cruise
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Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

I have a neighbor whose house is close to mine. I recently changed our front entry ceiling light, and she is perceiving it as too bright for her. This neighbor is a problem, so I am trying to keep her contained by finding a solution.

Original ceiling light had a 750 lumen light that was a more yellowish color light. We replaced this fixture with a 750 lumen LED light, At it's yellowish-most setting (3000), it appears much brighter to her than the previous light.

We just spent oodles of money to have this new fixture installed (drywall, painter, electrician), so we are not going to change the fixture.

I was thinking about a solution. One I came up with was to judiciously place some white or bronze (the color of the fixture) on portions of the glass of the light surface, thinking that might reduce the overall light coverage and perceived intensity. Another thought was to purchase some gel yellow light filter and fashion an attachment.

Any thoughts from the very insightful people here?

Many thanks!
JoinToday
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by JoinToday »

Can you replace just the light bulb, with lower color temperature and lower lumens? My lights outside were too "white" and too bright for me. I just changed the bulbs. Problem solved.
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rogue_economist
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by rogue_economist »

Is this "front entry ceiling light" indoors or outdoors?

Either way, this is absurd, its not her property and if she doesn't like it she should buy some blackout curtains. Seriously, I wouldn't even answer the door to her anymore.
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billaster
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by billaster »

The problem is likely a poorly designed fixture that directs the light horizontally instead of vertically, contributing to neighborhood light pollution. If you don't want to change the fixture, you may be able to mitigate the problem by installing a light shield on the outward facing side.

One of the downsides of cheap LED lighting is that is seems everyone in the neighborhood wants to light up the place like a federal prison yard all night. It's really annoying, like a barking dog that just won't stop.
Big Dog
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Big Dog »

750 lumens is a 60w equivalent. I have two 7.5w equivalent LEDs and they are plenty bright for our front. Suggest you drop down bulb output. And/or try a 2000k warmer color.
Last edited by Big Dog on Mon May 13, 2024 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diluted Waters
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Diluted Waters »

Obtain a few different sheets of lighting color 'gels' (such as Roscolux) from a theater supply house, or even Amazon, in various warmer color temperatures, such as light straw. [https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Filters ... de=3348011]

Try different colors, affixing them above the lens of the fixture, if possible, or onto the lens if it's the kind of 'disposable' LED fixture that doesn't come apart and see how that goes. If it's still to bright, try a darker color or a double the lighter ones up.

Keep in mind some people make stuff up. You might move heaven and earth and they'll still complain it's blinding them like a carbon-arc spotlight.

While it might feel great to tell the neighbor to go pound sand, it's worth considering that you have to live next to them. It may be worthwhile to make reasonable efforts to address such issues but you don't have to ever lift a finger to help them in other circumstances. Even a little finger.
Last edited by Diluted Waters on Mon May 13, 2024 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rob
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by rob »

Photo stores have ND (neutral density) gels of various strengths (or you can stack them) that are used to reduce the "brightness" of lights - you could cut some pieces and put into the inside of the fixture. Get some red & green gels while your there :D

Edit: Didn't see last post when I started typing.... Agree.
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JPH
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by JPH »

Make her state exactly what she wants you to do. Tell her to research the problem and if she comes up with a reasonable solution that will satisfy her that you will consider it.
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samsoes
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by samsoes »

I can see the neighbor's point.

The neighbor across the street from me recent installed an obnoxiously bright LED front porch light and it's on all night. As a result, I can't keep my shades up and windows open on pleasant, breezy nights. My whole bedroom is lit up like the aforementioned Federal prison yard.

OP, have you considered a motion sensor, so the the thing only lights up when there's someone at the door and shuts off automatically after a few minutes?
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billaster
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by billaster »

samsoes wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:05 pm OP, have you considered a motion sensor, so the the thing only lights up when there's someone at the door and shuts off automatically after a few minutes?
That doesn't get to the root of the problem and can be even more annoying, like having a camera flash bulb going off randomly.

The only solution, if you must have them, is to have properly designed fixtures that direct the light downward, not outward. Or else install a light shield.

The only reason to have bright lights shining outward is if you are the Great Gatsby trying to attract Daisy Buchanan to your mansion from across the bay.
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Cruise
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

samsoes wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:05 pm I can see the neighbor's point.

The neighbor across the street from me recent installed an obnoxiously bright LED front porch light and it's on all night. As a result, I can't keep my shades up and windows open on pleasant, breezy nights. My whole bedroom is lit up like the aforementioned Federal prison yard.

OP, have you considered a motion sensor, so the the thing only lights up when there's someone at the door and shuts off automatically after a few minutes?
That would not work in this situation. Thanks.
JoinToday wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:33 pm Can you replace just the light bulb, with lower color temperature and lower lumens? My lights outside were too "white" and too bright for me. I just changed the bulbs. Problem solved.


Thanks, but it is a sealed unit and the bulb can't be changed.
rogue_economist wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:40 pm Is this "front entry ceiling light" indoors or outdoors?

Either way, this is absurd, its not her property and if she doesn't like it she should buy some blackout curtains. Seriously, I wouldn't even answer the door to her anymore.
It is an outdoor light.

Not appearing to remedy the problem would cause so much grief.
billaster wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:45 pm The problem is likely a poorly designed fixture that directs the light horizontally instead of vertically, contributing to neighborhood light pollution. If you don't want to change the fixture, you may be able to mitigate the problem by installing a light shield on the outward facing side.

One of the downsides of cheap LED lighting is that is seems everyone in the neighborhood wants to light up the place like a federal prison yard all night. It's really annoying, like a barking dog that just won't stop.
We picked this particular light because it can be directed in different positions, including away from her house. She claimed that made the problem worse.

I'd appreciate it if you had any information about a light shield.
Big Dog wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:51 pm 750 lumens is a 60w equivalent. I have two 7.5w equivalent LEDs and they are plenty bright for our front. Suggest you drop down bulb output. And/or try a 2000k warmer color.
The bulb can't be switched--it is integrated. It is the same intensity as the previous fixture's bulb.
Diluted Waters wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:51 pm Obtain a few different sheets of lighting color 'gels' (such as Roscolux) from a theater supply house, or even Amazon, in various warmer color temperatures, such as light straw. [https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Filters ... de=3348011]

Try different colors, affixing them above the lens of the fixture, if possible, or onto the lens if it's the kind of 'disposable' LED fixture that doesn't come apart and see how that goes. If it's still to bright, try a darker color or a double the lighter ones up.

Keep in mind some people make stuff up. You might move heaven and earth and they'll still complain it's blinding them like a carbon-arc spotlight.

While it might feel great to tell the neighbor to go pound sand, it's worth considering that you have to live next to them. It may be worthwhile to make reasonable efforts to address such issues but you don't have to ever lift a finger to help them in other circumstances. Even a little finger.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look into these filters.
rob wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:53 pm Photo stores have ND (neutral density) gels of various strengths (or you can stack them) that are used to reduce the "brightness" of lights - you could cut some pieces and put into the inside of the fixture. Get some red & green gels while your there :D

Edit: Didn't see last post when I started typing.... Agree.
I'll go to my local camera store. Thanks!
JPH wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:55 pm Make her state exactly what she wants you to do. Tell her to research the problem and if she comes up with a reasonable solution that will satisfy her that you will consider it.
That surely would be a way to approach a reasonable person. However, if I don't find a solution, she will make my life miserable.
samsoes wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:05 pm I can see the neighbor's point.

The neighbor across the street from me recent installed an obnoxiously bright LED front porch light and it's on all night. As a result, I can't keep my shades up and windows open on pleasant, breezy nights. My whole bedroom is lit up like the aforementioned Federal prison yard.

OP, have you considered a motion sensor, so the the thing only lights up when there's someone at the door and shuts off automatically after a few minutes?
Sorry to hear of your situation. The motion sensor would not work in our setting, but I will try to mitigate the issue. I do try to be a great neighbor under all circumstances. I must go to extra efforts or my life will be miserable.
Millennial
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Millennial »

Is the fixture rated for use on a dimmer? If so that seems to be the easiest solution.
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Cruise
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

Millennial wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:20 pm Is the fixture rated for use on a dimmer? If so that seems to be the easiest solution.
Thanks, but no.
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Cruise
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

Hi folks, I just thought of something: Would applying some petroleum jelly over the lens sound like an easy and effective solution?
billaster
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by billaster »

A light shield is just a piece of aluminum sheet metal or plastic that blocks light from going outward. For example a bare bulb hanging from the ceiling you would fit a soup can around the bulb so the only light escaping goes downward.

For a porch light, the shield could just be a half circle that only blocks light outward. The shield only needs to be tall enough that you can't directly see the actual light emitter from the street.
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samsoes
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by samsoes »

billaster wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:12 pm
samsoes wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:05 pm OP, have you considered a motion sensor, so the the thing only lights up when there's someone at the door and shuts off automatically after a few minutes?
That doesn't get to the root of the problem and can be even more annoying, like having a camera flash bulb going off randomly.
Really? How often do people come to your door in the middle of the night?
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Big Dog
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Big Dog »

"it's a sealed unit."

Just out of curiosity, what is the Plan when the bulb expires? Or, do you hope to be out of the house before that happens?
bogles the mind
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by bogles the mind »

Search window films on Amazon. There are many. Maybe something like this d-c fix . Stick it to the lens .
https://www.amazon.com/d-c-fix-Self-Adh ... =8-55&th=1
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Cruise
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

billaster wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:37 pm A light shield is just a piece of aluminum sheet metal or plastic that blocks light from going outward. For example a bare bulb hanging from the ceiling you would fit a soup can around the bulb so the only light escaping goes downward.

For a porch light, the shield could just be a half circle that only blocks light outward. The shield only needs to be tall enough that you can't directly see the actual light emitter from the street.
Thanks for the information.
Big Dog wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:52 pm "it's a sealed unit."

Just out of curiosity, what is the Plan when the bulb expires? Or, do you hope to be out of the house before that happens?
The led unit is rated to last about 12-15 years. We will be long-gone by then.
bogles the mind wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:07 pm Search window films on Amazon. There are many. Maybe something like this d-c fix . Stick it to the lens .
https://www.amazon.com/d-c-fix-Self-Adh ... =8-55&th=1
Thank you. Much appreciated.
bogles the mind
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by bogles the mind »

People use these films on high power flashlight lens to turn throwers into flooders. They smooth the beam. Might make your light have less glare. There are also films that change the color temperature.
HomeStretch
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by HomeStretch »

Have you walked over to your neighbor’s house at night to see your new light when on?

Will a dimmer switch help?

What time do you turn your lights on and off?

I replaced 2700K lighting with 3000k lighting inside and out. The whiter color of 3000K works better in my rooms. But it is noticeably brighter. I am glad I have dimmers.
JimmyJoeMeeker
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by JimmyJoeMeeker »

billaster wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:45 pm The problem is likely a poorly designed fixture that directs the light horizontally instead of vertically, contributing to neighborhood light pollution. If you don't want to change the fixture, you may be able to mitigate the problem by installing a light shield on the outward facing side.

One of the downsides of cheap LED lighting is that is seems everyone in the neighborhood wants to light up the place like a federal prison yard all night. It's really annoying, like a barking dog that just won't stop.
Yes, this exactly. No sense of lumen output, glare management and that horrible 5000K color temperature. Cheap Chinese fixtures.

Now in interiors too!
Normchad
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Normchad »

If I liked my neighbor, I’d mount some sort of metal shield in front of the fixture, just to stop it from projecting directly sideways into her retina.

If I didn’t like my neighbor, I wouldn’t do anything. It’s her problem…. As you said, she’s a problem, so even if you remedy this, she will be complaining about something else shortly.

You should go over there at night and see what she is seeing though, so you can understand her complaint.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by bradinsky »

What if you make some modifications and she still complains? She probably liked the people that you bought the house from & doesn’t like change. To me, it’s kind of strange that she spends time staring at your light. I strive to be a good neighbor but if you modify the fixture with some sort of film & she continues to complain, I would personally remove the film & tell her to deal with it. Are you breaking any ordinances or laws?
OnTrack2020
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by OnTrack2020 »

I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?
billaster
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by billaster »

OnTrack2020 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:32 pm I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?
Need to see the escapees from the sentry towers.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Normchad »

OnTrack2020 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:32 pm I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?
Not me. They’re on “light sensors” and stay on all night. This is typical in our neighborhood.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by bradinsky »

OnTrack2020 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:32 pm I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?

To each their own. Some people like the security of a light during night hours. Our landscape lighting is on a photocell & remains on during the dark hours.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Big Dog »

bradinsky wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:54 pm
OnTrack2020 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:32 pm I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?

To each their own. Some people like the security of a light during night hours. Our landscape lighting is on a photocell & remains on during the dark hours.
Exactly. Local police, community watch folks recommend lighting at night, either motion activated or on a timer/electronic eye which goes on at sunset.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog ... ity-crime/
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by bradinsky »

Big Dog wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 9:37 pm
bradinsky wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:54 pm
OnTrack2020 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:32 pm I guess I don't get it. Don't people turn their outdoor entry light off at night at a certain hour, like around 10:00 p.m. if not sooner?

To each their own. Some people like the security of a light during night hours. Our landscape lighting is on a photocell & remains on during the dark hours.
Exactly. Local police, community watch folks recommend lighting at night, either motion activated or on a timer/electronic eye which goes on at sunset.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog ... ity-crime/
+1 I owned industrial property for many years. The building exterior was fully illuminated from dusk until dawn & we never had any issues. The neighbors around us who were too thrifty(cheap) to turn on lights dealt with break-ins & vandalism. Lighting deters crime!
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El Greco
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by El Greco »

Get a "Smart" LED Bulb. You can dim it from an App on your phone. You can even change the color temperature, And another bonus, you can change the color to red or green during Christmas time through the APP as Well. About $25.00 from home depot.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by crefwatch »

Many residential front door light fixtures have a greater effect of blinding the police or passers by, rather than revealing the actions of potential thieves. That's because they're mounted where the light should be falling, instead of where the light should be coming from.

Theatrical lighting filters eventually fade. Unless that LED bulb is labeled "suitable for use in totally enclosed fixtures", it's not going to last 12 years.
retireIn2020
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by retireIn2020 »

Is it possible that your light shines into their bedroom?

Consider how that would make you feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

Make friends, not enemies.

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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abide
RetiredArtist
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by RetiredArtist »

Big Dog wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:52 pm "it's a sealed unit."

Just out of curiosity, what is the Plan when the bulb expires? Or, do you hope to be out of the house before that happens?
I bought two sealed units by mistake. Who knew they sold such things? Yes, you throw the fixture away when the lamp expires, and replace it with a fixture that allows you to change the lamp.
onourway
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by onourway »

This is why I do my best to avoid fixtures with integrated LED's. Lumen rating means nothing - it's all about how that light is directed - and with an integrated fixture you have no control over that. I have a 50 lumen flashing LED for my bike that is visible from a mile away in full daylight, but worthless to see 10 feet in front of you in the dark.

In addition to the glare, your neighbor is probably reacting to the color temp. 3000k is quite cool for an outdoor light at night - at least compared to what people are used to from incandescents and old sodium-halide street lamps. That gives the perception of being much brighter for a given lumen rating. Our town replaced the street lamps with 3000k LED's right outside one of our kid's bedroom windows and it took a fair bit of work to get them to dim it and install a glare shield. They insisted they were the 'same brightness' as the old lamps when anyone with half a brain could walk down the street and see that wasn't remotely the case.

I think you're on the right track with a coating and a glare shield. And next time you'll know to look for something with a replaceable bulb.
Big Dog
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Big Dog »

RetiredArtist wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 1:35 am
Big Dog wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 5:52 pm "it's a sealed unit."

Just out of curiosity, what is the Plan when the bulb expires? Or, do you hope to be out of the house before that happens?
I bought two sealed units by mistake. Who knew they sold such things? Yes, you throw the fixture away when the lamp expires, and replace it with a fixture that allows you to change the lamp.
Understand, and this was my point. Before messing with film/diverters and other work-arounds, I'd try to find a fixture with lower wattage/lumens.

fwiw: my LED bulbs in the outdoor fixtures near my front door have gone dim in the past few months; they are only 5 years old, so time to replace.
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by michaelingp »

Normchad wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:12 pm If I liked my neighbor, I’d mount some sort of metal shield in front of the fixture, just to stop it from projecting directly sideways into her retina.
I had a similar problem with a light fixture that I installed, except it wasn't bothering the neighbor, it was bothering ME. I created a semi-circular light shield out of thin (2 mm) coroplast. It was light weight and easy to cut with scissors. To my surprise it actually looks pretty good and probably took less than 5 minutes. Aluminum would have worked too, but I kind of like the glow of the light coming through the coroplast, and the white coroplast blends in with the white trim around my porch.
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Cruise
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by Cruise »

OP here.

Many thanks for all the suggestions. I’ve just covered half of the light with carpenter’s tape that I covered with a white electrical tape. I will test it out tonight to see what effect it has. Also, I did more research and found that this fixture is dimmer-compatible, although not tested with the device I am planning to use. It will take some time to have the dimmer shipped to me. Will report back

Thanks again!
LoveTheBogle
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Re: Need Lighting Specialist Help

Post by LoveTheBogle »

Use a dimmer instead of a regular on/off switch?
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