VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

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Topic Author
msimon
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

Da5id wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:21 pm OK, now I'm curious. Why are you still at Vanguard? I don't think in my life (I'm in my 50s) I've ever reported any business to BBB and the continued to voluntarily interact with them. Is this a 401k where you can't take your money elsewhere? Not challenging you or anything, just curious what makes staying compelling given you seem pretty unhappy.
Several reasons:

Compared to Fidelity Vanguard money market funds have lower expense ratios and higher yields.

Vanguard bond fund holdings that do not have ETF analogs. Eg VCADX.

Inertia

------------

I do have some holdings at Fidelity and may transfer some of my Vanguard equity index fund holdings over to Fidelity since Fidelity has far superior mechanisms for specifically identifying share lots to be used in gifting / sale transactions - especially for non covered share lots.
Da5id
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by Da5id »

msimon wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:34 pm
Da5id wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:21 pm OK, now I'm curious. Why are you still at Vanguard? I don't think in my life (I'm in my 50s) I've ever reported any business to BBB and the continued to voluntarily interact with them. Is this a 401k where you can't take your money elsewhere? Not challenging you or anything, just curious what makes staying compelling given you seem pretty unhappy.
Several reasons:

Compared to Fidelity Vanguard money market funds have lower expense ratios and higher yields.

Vanguard bond fund holdings that do not have ETF analogs. Eg VCADX.

Inertia

------------

I do have some holdings at Fidelity and may transfer some of my Vanguard equity index fund holdings over to Fidelity since Fidelity has far superior mechanisms for specifically identifying share lots to be used in gifting / sale transactions - especially for non covered share lots.
That is totally fair. I pulled the trigger and moved everything to Fidelity last year after years where inertia stopped me. As I only had ETFs it was very straightforward to move my 7 accounts to Fidelity, and I've been quite happy with the choice so far.
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

msimon wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 5:17 pm I just received my March 31rst end of quarter account statement from Vanguard.

The share balance for my VFSUX holding is the same as the share balance in my February account statement.

Clearly this is an error on the part of Vanguard since I have my dividends set to reinvest for this fund. All my other bond funds properly reinvested their income distributions. All my Vanguard funds are held in brokerage accounts.

This is the first time I have ever seen such a serious mistake on the part of Vanguard since I became an investor with them in 1987. I have owned various bond funds with them since 1994. Each month dividends were reinvested on the reinvest date for funds set up to reinvest income dividends. The transactions were reliably reported on my accounts as of the NEXT day.

So this is NOT normal behavior and it will not be fixed by waiting for some magical self correction by Vanguard.

We need to complain to Vanguard.
We’re not even into the next business day from when the dividends were supposed to post. All we have now is a lack of posting on the web site and an inaccurate quarterly report. If that’s the most serious mistake I ever experience, I will feel fortunate.
Sarastro
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by Sarastro »

I called Vanguard this Monday morning (4/1) about the missing reinvested dividends for VFSUX holders. Rep said there was posted an alert in my accounts this morning (April 1) about the reinvested dividends not being posted to clients accounts on Mar. 28 as was supposed to be the case.
The dividends will not be posted until tonite, and should, I repeat "SHOULD", show up tomorrow on April 2 in our accounts. The reinvested dividends will be dated Mar. 28, and include dividends accumulated up until Mar. 31. So they will show they were accumulated prior to the new 2nd quarter of 2024; April 1, which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
I asked the rep why this happened. He had no idea.
I asked why there is not software installed in the Vanguard computer system that alerts them at the end of the month if they have neglected to post ALL reinvested monthly dividends for ALL bond funds for ALL clients who need that information promptly due to tax implications, particularly when the end of the month is also the end of the quarter.
He had no idea, but thought that would be a good idea for Vanguard to adopt.....
So lets see what happens tomorrow.....
PCFV
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:21 am

short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by PCFV »

No interest/dividend paid in March. Anyone know why ?


Thanks All.
Tom_T
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Re: short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by Tom_T »

It's payable today.
livesoft
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by livesoft »

Kick the Boglehive and get stung.

The Vanguard rep didn't happen to mention this was just an April Fools' prank to calibrate how Vanguard was doing in their Social Media channels?
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PCFV
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Re: short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by PCFV »

[Topic merged into existing discussion - moderator Kendall]

Not yet as of this morning. Also, all other vanguard funds paid on Thursday - last day of the market month.
jebmke
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Re: short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by jebmke »

PCFV wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:00 am Not yet as of this morning. Also, all other vanguard funds paid on Thursday - last day of the market month.
payment today won't show up for funds until business closes - at least that has been my experience. There is a long, existing thread on this topic.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Topic Author
msimon
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:57 am

Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am I called Vanguard this Monday morning (4/1) about the missing reinvested dividends for VFSUX holders. Rep said there was posted an alert in my accounts this morning (April 1) about the reinvested dividends not being posted to clients accounts on Mar. 28 as was supposed to be the case.
The dividends will not be posted until tonite, and should, I repeat "SHOULD", show up tomorrow on April 2 in our accounts. The reinvested dividends will be dated Mar. 28, and include dividends accumulated up until Mar. 31. So they will show they were accumulated prior to the new 2nd quarter of 2024; April 1, which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
I asked the rep why this happened. He had no idea.
I asked why there is not software installed in the Vanguard computer system that alerts them at the end of the month if they have neglected to post ALL reinvested monthly dividends for ALL bond funds for ALL clients who need that information promptly due to tax implications, particularly when the end of the month is also the end of the quarter.
He had no idea, but thought that would be a good idea for Vanguard to adopt.....
So lets see what happens tomorrow.....
Thanks for taking the initiative to call Vanguard. I sent them a secure message about the problem but have not heard anything back yet.
Topic Author
msimon
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:57 am

Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

livesoft wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:56 am Kick the Boglehive and get stung.

The Vanguard rep didn't happen to mention this was just an April Fools' prank to calibrate how Vanguard was doing in their Social Media channels?
Do you really think that Vanguard management cares about what people in social media channels say about them?
JoeNJ28
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by JoeNJ28 »

Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am I called Vanguard this Monday morning (4/1) about the missing reinvested dividends for VFSUX holders. Rep said there was posted an alert in my accounts this morning (April 1) about the reinvested dividends not being posted to clients accounts on Mar. 28 as was supposed to be the case.
The dividends will not be posted until tonite, and should, I repeat "SHOULD", show up tomorrow on April 2 in our accounts. The reinvested dividends will be dated Mar. 28, and include dividends accumulated up until Mar. 31. So they will show they were accumulated prior to the new 2nd quarter of 2024; April 1, which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
I asked the rep why this happened. He had no idea.
I asked why there is not software installed in the Vanguard computer system that alerts them at the end of the month if they have neglected to post ALL reinvested monthly dividends for ALL bond funds for ALL clients who need that information promptly due to tax implications, particularly when the end of the month is also the end of the quarter.
He had no idea, but thought that would be a good idea for Vanguard to adopt.....
So lets see what happens tomorrow.....
There absolutely is systems that alerted them to the not posted dividends. CSR reps don’t know the inner workings of the tech side. Vanguard made a business decision that it would be cheaper to wait to fix the problem today in the overnight batch then pay a boatload of people OT to fix it over the holiday weekend.
Tom_T
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Re: short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by Tom_T »

PCFV wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:00 am Not yet as of this morning. Also, all other vanguard funds paid on Thursday - last day of the market month.
The Vanguard fund page, distribution section, shows that this fund always pays on the first of the month, which means it won't be processed until sometime after close as jebmke said. Other Vanguard funds can be on a different schedule.
livesoft
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by livesoft »

msimon wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 amDo you really think that Vanguard management cares about what people in social media channels say about them?
Maybe not, but they seem to care about what I say about them because they are always asking me about things:

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jebmke
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Re: short term investment grade fund March interest

Post by jebmke »

Tom_T wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:20 pm
PCFV wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:00 am Not yet as of this morning. Also, all other vanguard funds paid on Thursday - last day of the market month.
The Vanguard fund page, distribution section, shows that this fund always pays on the first of the month, which means it won't be processed until sometime after close as jebmke said. Other Vanguard funds can be on a different schedule.
However, reinvestments normally occur before month end. In our MF account they posted on the 28th. In brokerage, not yet even tho reinvest is turned on. So there is a glitch here.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
MariaT
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by MariaT »

My husband and I both have VFSUX it in our IRAs with dividends reinvested. First time ever missing divs not posted since we've held the fund for a long time. Like someone said "could be a glitch". Not worried and I'll wait until tomorrow.
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am … which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
Quarterly taxes are now due only two weeks after quarter-end? That would have been difficult back in the good old days when all we had were mailed paper statements, which didn’t arrive until 7-10 days after quarter-end.
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:40 pm
Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am … which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
Quarterly taxes are now due only two weeks after quarter-end? That would have been difficult back in the good old days when all we had were mailed paper statements, which didn’t arrive until 7-10 days after quarter-end.
the Q2 payment is due before Q2 is over; Q3 is due before Q3 is over so I'm not buying the tax panic. The per share amount is already known. How many investors adjust their ES payments up and down based on bond interest? I certainly don't but perhaps I'm an outlier.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:46 pm
rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:40 pm
Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am … which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
Quarterly taxes are now due only two weeks after quarter-end? That would have been difficult back in the good old days when all we had were mailed paper statements, which didn’t arrive until 7-10 days after quarter-end.
the Q2 payment is due before Q2 is over; Q3 is due before Q3 is over so I'm not buying the tax panic. The per share amount is already known. How many investors adjust their ES payments up and down based on bond interest? I certainly don't but perhaps I'm an outlier.
You’re talking quarterly estimated taxes? Not a quarterly business tax or self-employment tax?

Edit: I see that estimated self-employment taxes run on the same schedule as personal estimated taxes.

(I used to help my parents with their business bookkeeping and remember monthly and quarterly taxes for income tax, FICA, unemployment and disability.)

Since these are estimated taxes, I’m not buying the panic over a 1 or 2 day delay in reporting either. And if you were really desperate for the number, you could just calculate it yourself with the published dividend amount and your number of shares.
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:04 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:46 pm
rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:40 pm
Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am … which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
Quarterly taxes are now due only two weeks after quarter-end? That would have been difficult back in the good old days when all we had were mailed paper statements, which didn’t arrive until 7-10 days after quarter-end.
the Q2 payment is due before Q2 is over; Q3 is due before Q3 is over so I'm not buying the tax panic. The per share amount is already known. How many investors adjust their ES payments up and down based on bond interest? I certainly don't but perhaps I'm an outlier.
You’re talking quarterly estimated taxes? Not a quarterly business tax or self-employment tax?

Edit: I see that estimated self-employment taxes run on the same schedule as personal estimated taxes.

(I used to help my parents with their business bookkeeping and remember monthly and quarterly taxes for income tax, FICA, unemployment and disability.)

Since these are estimated taxes, I’m not buying the panic over a 1 or 2 day delay in reporting either. And if you were really desperate for the number, you could just calculate it yourself with the published dividend amount and your number of shares.
Well, since this is a personal finance forum, probably not applicable to the vast majority of BHs.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:06 pm
rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:04 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:46 pm
rkhusky wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:40 pm
Sarastro wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 am … which makes a big difference in the case of investors who have to file quarterly taxes in two weeks based on accumulated or realized dividend income in the first quarter of 2024.
Quarterly taxes are now due only two weeks after quarter-end? That would have been difficult back in the good old days when all we had were mailed paper statements, which didn’t arrive until 7-10 days after quarter-end.
the Q2 payment is due before Q2 is over; Q3 is due before Q3 is over so I'm not buying the tax panic. The per share amount is already known. How many investors adjust their ES payments up and down based on bond interest? I certainly don't but perhaps I'm an outlier.
You’re talking quarterly estimated taxes? Not a quarterly business tax or self-employment tax?

Edit: I see that estimated self-employment taxes run on the same schedule as personal estimated taxes.

(I used to help my parents with their business bookkeeping and remember monthly and quarterly taxes for income tax, FICA, unemployment and disability.)

Since these are estimated taxes, I’m not buying the panic over a 1 or 2 day delay in reporting either. And if you were really desperate for the number, you could just calculate it yourself with the published dividend amount and your number of shares.
Well, since this is a personal finance forum, probably not applicable to the vast majority of BHs.
Yeah. That was just my first thought when I saw “quarterly taxes.” I was thinking a hard due date.
Topic Author
msimon
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

Well Vanguard has fixed the problem in an interesting way. For those reinvesting dividends in their fund the income dividend for VFSUX shows up with a trade date of 3/28 and a settlement date of 4/1 - normally the settlement date would be the same as the trade date i.e. 3/28. Vanguard shows a reinvestment transaction with trade date of 4/1 and settlement date of 4/1 (normally the date for the reinvestment transaction would be the same as the date of the dividend declaration i.e. 3/28). Even more interestingly the reinvestment price used on 4/1 is NOT the closing NAV of the fund on that date. Instead the price used is the closing NAV of VFSUX as of 3/28/2024. So legally speaking the income was received on 3/28 and the share lot corresponding to the reinvested income was acquired on 4/1/2024.

As far as I can tell the dividend should therefore appear in the unswept cash balance of the brokerage account containing this holding as of 3/28/2024. However this amount does not appear as unsettled activity in my March monthly statement so it is not reflected in the account balance.

Looks like I will need to be adding some more features to the scripts I use to keep track of my finances for this new type of behavior.
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

Seems like I’ve heard of similar things at the end of the year in different brokerages, where dividends might show as taxable on the 1099 in one year, but show up on the next year’s statements, which seems more problematic. I think Vanguard has arranged things so that bond dividends are paid a few days before the end of December, which avoids that problem.
Sarastro
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by Sarastro »

msimon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:06 am Well Vanguard has fixed the problem in an interesting way. For those reinvesting dividends in their fund the income dividend for VFSUX shows up with a trade date of 3/28 and a settlement date of 4/1 - normally the settlement date would be the same as the trade date i.e. 3/28. Vanguard shows a reinvestment transaction with trade date of 4/1 and settlement date of 4/1 (normally the date for the reinvestment transaction would be the same as the date of the dividend declaration i.e. 3/28). Even more interestingly the reinvestment price used on 4/1 is NOT the closing NAV of the fund on that date. Instead the price used is the closing NAV of VFSUX as of 3/28/2024. So legally speaking the income was received on 3/28 and the share lot corresponding to the reinvested income was acquired on 4/1/2024.

As far as I can tell the dividend should therefore appear in the unswept cash balance of the brokerage account containing this holding as of 3/28/2024. However this amount does not appear as unsettled activity in my March monthly statement so it is not reflected in the account balance.

Looks like I will need to be adding some more features to the scripts I use to keep track of my finances for this new type of behavior.
Yes, Vanguard put the settlement date of 4/1, but the trade date of 3/28 for the purpose of getting the reinvested dividends figured on the 3/28 NAV price, which is correct. The settlement date should have been 3/28 as well, but since they did not do the postings until yesterday, they cannot list the settlement date as 3/28.
Still no real explanation as to why they were not settled on 3/28 as all the rest of Vanguards Bond funds issuing monthly dividends were. That means their computers did not alert them on Thursday 3/28 that they had neglected to credit AND post to clients accounts who owned VFSUX their amounts of dividends reinvested. If there is no software installed to that effect, then this likely will occur again in the future to other bond funds. So be aware at the end of every month if you own bond funds issuing reinvested dividends to check and confirm Vanguard does so promptly.
This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

Where is it you are seeing a "settlement" date? For account activity Vanguard shows a dividend date and either a reinvestment date or sweep date.
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:57 am Where is it you are seeing a "settlement" date? For account activity Vanguard shows a dividend date and either a reinvestment date or sweep date.
That is it
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:07 pm
billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:57 am Where is it you are seeing a "settlement" date? For account activity Vanguard shows a dividend date and either a reinvestment date or sweep date.
That is it
What is "it"? What are you calling "settlement date". Vanguard shows a dividend date and a reinvestment date or sweep date.
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:25 pm
jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:07 pm
billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:57 am Where is it you are seeing a "settlement" date? For account activity Vanguard shows a dividend date and either a reinvestment date or sweep date.
That is it
What is "it"? What are you calling "settlement date". Vanguard shows a dividend date and a reinvestment date or sweep date.
I just looked at my Brokerage IRA that holds this fund. It only shows one transaction on 4/1. That's the date. There is no "sweep date" for reinvested dividends as far as I can tell. "Sweep" usually refers to sweeping to the settlement fund for dividends that are taken in cash. Is yours different?
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

I usually see two transactions in my brokerage account: dividends going from fund to settlement account (dollar amount) and dividends going from settlement account back into fund for reinvestment (number of shares, share price, dollar amount).
There was only one transaction for dividend reinvestment in the old mutual fund accounts.
In brokerage accounts, I only see one transaction for Roth conversions, perhaps because they are transferred in-kind.
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Does that really matter?
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:49 pm I usually see two transactions: dividends going from fund to settlement account (dollar amount) and dividends going from settlement account back into fund for reinvestment (number of shares, share price, dollar amount).
My VG brokerage IRAs have never shown that online (transactions) but do show that on the statement. When I look at the Feb statement those dates are the same. I'm not sure I care what that date is. The only time it will matter is for tax purposes and the only reinvestment I have turned on is in IRAs and I am not at RMD age where the December balance matters.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:55 pm
Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Does that really matter?
Only if it were Dec that slopped over to Jan but in that case, I think the 1099-Div would roll it back to December in which case it would be reported in the correct tax period.

If a December IRA balance were incorrect and not corrected for RMD calc purposes I suppose it could matter; but March isn't December.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

There are two transactions. The first is the dividend. The second is either reinvestment if reinvested or sweep if taken as cash. Those are the only choices -- dividend, reinvestment or sweep.

In in most cases the dividend and the corresponding reinvestment or sweep are posted on the same day. If the sweep or reinvestment are posted a day later on some rare occasion, I'm not sure what the big deal is. The numbers are always right, but the posting of the results might be delayed.

I have no idea what people are complaining about a settlement date because Vanguard doesn't have a transaction marked "settlement".
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

Okay, now I see where that is coming from. On the printed statements activity shows settlement date and trade date. And this seems to correspond with the fund's "payable date".

As pointed out previously by others, the payable date for VFSUX in 2024 is 4/1/2024. And last year it was 4/3/2023. It's clearly stated on the dividend schedule so what is the complaint?
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:32 pm Okay, now I see where that is coming from. On the printed statements activity shows settlement date and trade date. And this seems to correspond with the fund's "payable date".

As pointed out previously by others, the payable date for VFSUX in 2024 is 4/1/2024. And last year it was 4/3/2023. It's clearly stated on the dividend schedule so what is the complaint?
my March statement for my brokerage IRA account includes nothing for VFSUX; is yours different? (The topic is only relevant for reinvestment dividends. Cash dividends should post in the following month)
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:26 pm my March statement for my brokerage IRA account includes nothing for VFSUX; is yours different? (The topic is only relevant for reinvestment dividends. Cash dividends should post in the following month)
Does your March statement differ in the number of shares held from what it says on line today, that is, the reinvestment shares are missing on the statement? Does online show a reinvestment date other than March 28?
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:51 pm
jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:26 pm my March statement for my brokerage IRA account includes nothing for VFSUX; is yours different? (The topic is only relevant for reinvestment dividends. Cash dividends should post in the following month)
Does your March statement differ in the number of shares held from what it says on line today, that is, the reinvestment shares are missing on the statement? Does online show a reinvestment date other than March 28?
Online shows reinvestment date of 4/1 in brokerage IRA and 3/28 in MF IRA (spouse’s).

Statement shows nothing in mine and 3/28 in hers.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:00 pm
billaster wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:51 pm
jebmke wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:26 pm my March statement for my brokerage IRA account includes nothing for VFSUX; is yours different? (The topic is only relevant for reinvestment dividends. Cash dividends should post in the following month)
Does your March statement differ in the number of shares held from what it says on line today, that is, the reinvestment shares are missing on the statement? Does online show a reinvestment date other than March 28?
Online shows reinvestment date of 4/1 in brokerage IRA and 3/28 in MF IRA (spouse’s).

Statement shows nothing in mine and 3/28 in hers.
I assume the 4/1 reinvestment price was correctly for 3/28. So it sounds like all the accounting settled out properly in the end but apparently someone jumped the gun and ran the brokerage month end statement before the end of month accounting was finished for VFSUX.

I see the weirdness now. And it only affected the brokerage.
jebmke
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

Good question on the price. Need to check that.

edit: the price is the 3/28 price which is actually a tad higher than the 4/1 price. So it looks like they got that part right.
Last edited by jebmke on Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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msimon
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

In case it would be helpful here is a censored screen grab of my transaction activity as reported on Vanguards website:
Image
Where X and Y are the dollar amounts of the distributions and the share amounts are the dollar amounts divided by the reinvestment price (rounded to 3 digits).

Link to larger version: https://ibb.co/tKRGhN4
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msimon
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am . . .
Still no real explanation as to why they were not settled on 3/28 as all the rest of Vanguards Bond funds issuing monthly dividends were. That means their computers did not alert them on Thursday 3/28 that they had neglected to credit AND post to clients accounts who owned VFSUX their amounts of dividends reinvested. If there is no software installed to that effect, then this likely will occur again in the future to other bond funds. So be aware at the end of every month if you own bond funds issuing reinvested dividends to check and confirm Vanguard does so promptly.
This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Either Vanguard does not employ some sort of accounting sanity check in their software that would have caught this problem or they do and they just decided to go on vacation and fix this problem when they got back. Either way it doesn't speak well for their organization and diligence.
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

msimon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:38 pm
Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am . . .
Still no real explanation as to why they were not settled on 3/28 as all the rest of Vanguards Bond funds issuing monthly dividends were. That means their computers did not alert them on Thursday 3/28 that they had neglected to credit AND post to clients accounts who owned VFSUX their amounts of dividends reinvested. If there is no software installed to that effect, then this likely will occur again in the future to other bond funds. So be aware at the end of every month if you own bond funds issuing reinvested dividends to check and confirm Vanguard does so promptly.
This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Either Vanguard does not employ some sort of accounting sanity check in their software that would have caught this problem or they do and they just decided to go on vacation and fix this problem when they got back. Either way it doesn't speak well for their organization and diligence.
Everything was corrected, no one lost money, all transactions were made at the correct price. Only problem was that people received information late for 1 fund by 1 business day. A very minor issue in my opinion.
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:12 pm Everything was corrected, no one lost money, all transactions were made at the correct price. Only problem was that people received information late for 1 fund by 1 business day. A very minor issue in my opinion.
Right. I assume someone messed things up on the calendar and I suspect it has to do with the market being closed on a Friday at the end of a quarter.

From what jemke showed, it seems that they got it right on the old mutual fund platform but messed it up on the brokerage platform.

It hardly seems like a tragedy. Mistakes were made and mistakes were fixed.
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msimon
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by msimon »

By the way to all those insisting that there are no lingering problems due to this mistake you will note that the balance on your March statement from Vanguard for the brokerage account holding VFSUX is still WRONG if your holding is set to reinvest dividends.

The reason for this is that the dividend paid on 3/28 with settlement date of 4/1 is not reflected in the "Unsettled activity" section of your monthly report. This is an error. Because of this the value of this dividend is not reflected in the balance of your brokerage account when it should be.
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PizzaEater
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by PizzaEater »

rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:55 pm
Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Does that really matter?
If filling out Form 2210 and Schedule AI, yes it matters.
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

PizzaEater wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:13 am
rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:55 pm
Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Does that really matter?
If filling out Form 2210 and Schedule AI, yes it matters.
Some bond funds pay December dividends in January although they get rolled back to the prior year on the 1099-Div. How do you handle those "January" distributions when you do Schedule AI?
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
rkhusky
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by rkhusky »

PizzaEater wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:13 am
rkhusky wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:55 pm
Sarastro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:32 am This time for tax purposes, since it was the end of a quarter, if your reinvested dividends are taxable, they were credited as earned in Q1 of 2024.
Does that really matter?
If filling out Form 2210 and Schedule AI, yes it matters.
But does it really matter? Suppose one had uniform income throughout the year and paid uniform estimated taxes for the year, what would be the penalty for a $1000 in dividends to move from 3/31 to 4/1?
billaster
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by billaster »

rkhusky wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:14 am But does it really matter? Suppose one had uniform income throughout the year and paid uniform estimated taxes for the year, what would be the penalty for a $1000 in dividends to move from 3/31 to 4/1?
None, because you reduce your first quarter income by that amount, for estimated taxes not until due until April 15. You would increase your income for the second quarter for taxes due June 15. You have plenty of time to make adjustments. At no time would you be underpaying estimated taxes.
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by boomer_techie »

jebmke wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:28 am Some bond funds pay December dividends in January although they get rolled back to the prior year on the 1099-Div. How do you handle those "January" distributions when you do Schedule AI?
I omit such dividends from the Q4 column of Schedule AI. I do of course include these January dividends in the "full year" numbers on all other forms. So far the difference hasn't been materially significant.

Rational: Imagine a digital nomad who has all their money invested in SPY (which pays a "December/Q4" dividend on January 31st.) This person is taking a sabbatical year and thus has no other income. I can't see how the IRS could demand an estimated payment on January 15th for income that will only be received two weeks later.
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Re: VFSUX March End of month dividend missing

Post by jebmke »

boomer_techie wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 2:19 pm
jebmke wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:28 am Some bond funds pay December dividends in January although they get rolled back to the prior year on the 1099-Div. How do you handle those "January" distributions when you do Schedule AI?
I omit such dividends from the Q4 column of Schedule AI. I do of course include these January dividends in the "full year" numbers on all other forms. So far the difference hasn't been materially significant.

Rational: Imagine a digital nomad who has all their money invested in SPY (which pays a "December/Q4" dividend on January 31st.) This person is taking a sabbatical year and thus has no other income. I can't see how the IRS could demand an estimated payment on January 15th for income that will only be received two weeks later.
What income is used in Q2? Q2 payments are due on June 15. I don't know about you but most of my dividends in taxable in Q2 occur after June 15 since equity funds are the bulk of my taxable investments. Same for Q3 (September).
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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