Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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pascalwager
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by pascalwager »

Vulcan wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:20 pm
pascalwager wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:44 pmIf my card allows this, I may give myself a time buffer so I have the opportunity to correct any shortfall.
I never saw a card that didn't allow this.
Mine does too. I'm set up for "Last Statement Balance" right now. There's also an "Outstanding Balance" option that I may use in the future.
Last edited by pascalwager on Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pascalwager
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by pascalwager »

Vulcan wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:20 pm
pascalwager wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:44 pmIf my card allows this, I may give myself a time buffer so I have the opportunity to correct any shortfall.
I never saw a card that didn't allow this.
I just checked and my card seems to allow only "Due Date Payment". Also, "Last Statement Balance" is the only choice, other than minimum payment. So, the "time buffer" doesn't apply in my case.

(In order to do the check, I had to delete my original auto-setup.)
canderson
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by canderson »

Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
b4nash
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by b4nash »

canderson wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 pm Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
What do you mean by quicker transaction features? I am not sure that is true.

“How long will it take to move my cash from one account to another?
Transfers (including from one Vanguard account to another) generally take 2–3 business days, but they might be quicker at times.”
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anagram
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by anagram »

b4nash wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:59 am
canderson wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 pm Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
What do you mean by quicker transaction features? I am not sure that is true.

“How long will it take to move my cash from one account to another?
Transfers (including from one Vanguard account to another) generally take 2–3 business days, but they might be quicker at times.”
If you sell a MM that is in CP, the cash is available the next day in CP.
Lastrun
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Lastrun »

anagram wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:55 am
b4nash wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:59 am
canderson wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 pm Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
What do you mean by quicker transaction features? I am not sure that is true.

“How long will it take to move my cash from one account to another?
Transfers (including from one Vanguard account to another) generally take 2–3 business days, but they might be quicker at times.”
If you sell a MM that is in CP, the cash is available the next day in CP.
A little meat to the bone. I did test runs with VMFXX (not VXUSXX) from VMFXX CP to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to external checking, VMFXX CP to external checking. They were all the same time, next day. YMMV and your VUSXX may indeed be faster I just did not try it.
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anagram
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by anagram »

Lastrun wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:01 pm
anagram wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:55 am
b4nash wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:59 am
canderson wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 pm Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
What do you mean by quicker transaction features? I am not sure that is true.

“How long will it take to move my cash from one account to another?
Transfers (including from one Vanguard account to another) generally take 2–3 business days, but they might be quicker at times.”
If you sell a MM that is in CP, the cash is available the next day in CP.
A little meat to the bone. I did test runs with VMFXX (not VXUSXX) from VMFXX CP to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to external checking, VMFXX CP to external checking. They were all the same time, next day. YMMV and your VUSXX may indeed be faster I just did not try it.
No, VUSXX is not faster from brokerage, as you need to sell VUSXX one day, the next day you can buy CP cash from brokerage settlement.

When you say "VMFXX Brokerage" you mean the settlement account? Right?

I have not tried VUSXX CP to external checking. I must try this because if it is next day that would be great!

Otherwise I have seen the same as you have. It seems Vanguard is using a "fast" ACH service.

It would be wonderful if Vanguard implemented "immediate transfers" between brokerage MM funds and CP MM funds and/or cash.
b4nash
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by b4nash »

anagram wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm It would be wonderful if Vanguard implemented "immediate transfers" between brokerage MM funds and CP MM funds and/or cash.
Yes! That is what I want as well. Being able to instantly transfer in my online bank between CDs, checking, saving has spoiled me.
Lastrun
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Lastrun »

anagram wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm When you say "VMFXX Brokerage" you mean the settlement account? Right?
Correct.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by canderson »

Lastrun wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:01 pm
anagram wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:55 am
b4nash wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:59 am
canderson wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 pm Is there really any reason to NOT use CP if you have money sitting in vusxx as an emergency fund? Since you can hold a MMF like vusxx inside the CP and it allows for quicker transaction features (and can be used if ever needed to pay bills) than a straight brokerage, what’s the downside?
What do you mean by quicker transaction features? I am not sure that is true.

“How long will it take to move my cash from one account to another?
Transfers (including from one Vanguard account to another) generally take 2–3 business days, but they might be quicker at times.”
If you sell a MM that is in CP, the cash is available the next day in CP.
A little meat to the bone. I did test runs with VMFXX (not VXUSXX) from VMFXX CP to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to cash CP, VMFXX Brokerage to external checking, VMFXX CP to external checking. They were all the same time, next day. YMMV and your VUSXX may indeed be faster I just did not try it.
Excellent data. I’ll avoid CP until Vanguard offers the ability to auto sell the MMF into CP cash so it can be a true unmanaged banking account.
retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by retiringwhen »

canderson wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 pm Excellent data. I’ll avoid CP until Vanguard offers the ability to auto sell the MMF into CP cash so it can be a true unmanaged banking account.
I suspect that will be a long time waiting. It is likely no in their business model. Even Vanguard needs to pickup a few nickels here and there, if they have autoliquidation, why would I keep any money in the FDIC settlement account?
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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

canderson wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 pm I’ll avoid CP until Vanguard offers the ability to auto sell the MMF into CP cash so it can be a true unmanaged banking account.
It can be a true unmanaged banking account if you are happy with 4.7% APR.

I am - so it is for me.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

retiringwhen wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:00 pm I suspect that will be a long time waiting. It is likely no in their business model. Even Vanguard needs to pickup a few nickels here and there, if they have autoliquidation, why would I keep any money in the FDIC settlement account?
Vanguard's default settlement account is not FDIC cash deposit currently paying 3.7% APR, but a Money Market mutual find currently yielding 5.28% APR.

https://investor.vanguard.com/investmen ... file/vmfxx
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
slash8915
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by slash8915 »

So reading through the latest comments, is it safe to say that Vanguard still hasn't enabled auto-liquidation/overdraft protection from VUSXX to the cash account like Fidelity has with their MMFs?
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stan1
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by stan1 »

So just a description of what its like using CP for me since I think everyone's use case is still emerging:

Today (end of March) most of the ETFs in my primary taxable account have paid out their quarterly dividends and the proceeds were sitting in the settlement fund. I went in and transferred those funds to the Cash Plus FDIC account in one transaction. Then I was immediately able to buy that same amount of Treasury Money Market fund within the Cash Plus account since I prefer state tax exempt income. It was two steps but in total took about 2 minutes, and maybe I can get it down to one minute next time because I know what to do. Not zero effort, but also not too bad and worth it for a little bit of tax savings. I expect some expenses later this summer for vacations and will sell the Treasury Money Market shares into the Cash Plus FDIC account and use that to pay down credit card if needed. Note I am semi-retired so I do use some proceeds from investing accounts for expenses.

Not sure I would make the effort if I didn't want the state tax exempt income.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by stan1 »

slash8915 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:28 am So reading through the latest comments, is it safe to say that Vanguard still hasn't enabled auto-liquidation/overdraft protection from VUSXX to the cash account like Fidelity has with their MMFs?
No that feature does not exist. My guess is it never will because this feature does not exist in regular brokerage accounts. CP is a stripped down brokerage account with a different settlement fund (FDIC) and a limited set of investment options (Vanguard money market funds). I will be surprised if Vanguard adds any features to CP such as overdraft protection beyond what a brokerage account can do. They are still a low cost provider, and I think they are loathe to add anything that costs money such as new software features.
anniepeachie
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by anniepeachie »

jameskay wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:29 pm I got confirmation from Vanguard that you cannot currently open a Cash Plus Account that is owned by a trust - they are considering that for the future. And, as others mentioned in the pilot thread, if i did open a Cash Plus Account that was otherwise registered, you cannot transfer money back and forth from your vanguard brokerage account that is registered differently than your cash plus account. Id have to go brokerage account <-> bank <-> Cash Plus account. As such, I think I'll stick with 0% checking account at mega-bank, and transfer money back and forth to VUSXX in brokerage account
Well without even reading the entire thread that's the answer I was looking for after a half hour searching the Vanguard site (and other various useless google searches). I'm selling an inherited rental property and need a place to wire the funds that I hoped would be FDIC insured, earn a decent amount while I make some plans, and be in my revocable living trust to keep separate from joint family assets for now. Any recommendations that I haven't caught yet?
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anagram
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by anagram »

stan1 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:28 am So just a description of what its like using CP for me since I think everyone's use case is still emerging:

Today (end of March) most of the ETFs in my primary taxable account have paid out their quarterly dividends and the proceeds were sitting in the settlement fund. I went in and transferred those funds to the Cash Plus FDIC account in one transaction. Then I was immediately able to buy that same amount of Treasury Money Market fund within the Cash Plus account since I prefer state tax exempt income. It was two steps but in total took about 2 minutes, and maybe I can get it down to one minute next time because I know what to do. Not zero effort, but also not too bad and worth it for a little bit of tax savings. I expect some expenses later this summer for vacations and will sell the Treasury Money Market shares into the Cash Plus FDIC account and use that to pay down credit card if needed. Note I am semi-retired so I do use some proceeds from investing accounts for expenses.

Not sure I would make the effort if I didn't want the state tax exempt income.
I think your goal should be 30 seconds! :sharebeer

Thank you for pointing out you can transfer from settlement fund to CP and then immediately buy Treasury MM. I've got the same set up as you so on Monday I'll do the same 1 minute transaction.

One can also "top up" the CP FDIC cash if one wants at the same time.
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anagram
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by anagram »

stan1 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:37 am
slash8915 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:28 am So reading through the latest comments, is it safe to say that Vanguard still hasn't enabled auto-liquidation/overdraft protection from VUSXX to the cash account like Fidelity has with their MMFs?
No that feature does not exist. My guess is it never will because this feature does not exist in regular brokerage accounts. CP is a stripped down brokerage account with a different settlement fund (FDIC) and a limited set of investment options (Vanguard money market funds). I will be surprised if Vanguard adds any features to CP such as overdraft protection beyond what a brokerage account can do. They are still a low cost provider, and I think they are loathe to add anything that costs money such as new software features.
I agree.

Vanguard does say on the CP account page they plan to add notifications and other features. If they added scheduled transfers to a checking account that would be wonderful.
upwind
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by upwind »

canderson wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 pm Excellent data. I’ll avoid CP until Vanguard offers the ability to auto sell the MMF into CP cash so it can be a true unmanaged banking account.
I consider this a desirable feature not a deficiency. I understand others may disagree based on how they would like it to work but I like that it isn’t possible.
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Banana_libre
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Can i link Vanguard accounts?

Post by Banana_libre »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

How can I link or transfer money from Vanguard Cash Plus account to Vanguard Brokerage account?
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mhc
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Re: Can i link Vanguard accounts?

Post by mhc »

You should look at this mega-thread:

viewtopic.php?t=421345
52% TSM, 23% TISM, 24.5% TBM, 0.5% cash
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged Banana_libre's thread into the ongoing discussion.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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manlymatt83
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

I have searched this thread (“transfer”) and can’t figure out how to transfer money from my VG brokerage to my VG Cashplus account. Do I need to add the cash plus account as an external account in my brokerage?
Lastrun
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Lastrun »

manlymatt83 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:26 pm I have searched this thread (“transfer”) and can’t figure out how to transfer money from my VG brokerage to my VG Cashplus account. Do I need to add the cash plus account as an external account in my brokerage?
Banana_libre wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 9:42 pm How can I link or transfer money from Vanguard Cash Plus account to Vanguard Brokerage account?
I don't ever recall linking anything.

In Cash Plus---Transfer Cash (three dots) Deposit, then it brings up my joint brokerage, roth. You select the account and it only shows the sweep "available to withdraw". You can also withdraw from CP the brokerage this way. Note: it does not bring up my fiduciary accounts or LLC accounts under this list.

The Joint Brokerage, at least mine, does not have the same function.
inspector00
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by inspector00 »

FYI, Starting around 6/15/24, Fidelity's cash management account will be offering SPAXX as a core position. This might be relevant for those considering Fidelity but wanting the higher interest rate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fidelityinvest ... &context=3
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by xmorphicx »

manlymatt83 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:26 pm I have searched this thread (“transfer”) and can’t figure out how to transfer money from my VG brokerage to my VG Cashplus account. Do I need to add the cash plus account as an external account in my brokerage?
I have not been able to transfer between brokerage and CP from the app yet.
Lastrun wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:07 pm
I don't ever recall linking anything.

In Cash Plus---Transfer Cash (three dots) Deposit, then it brings up my joint brokerage, roth. You select the account and it only shows the sweep "available to withdraw". You can also withdraw from CP the brokerage this way. Note: it does not bring up my fiduciary accounts or LLC accounts under this list.

The Joint Brokerage, at least mine, does not have the same function.
This is what I do - website works easily. Mobile website works as well if you are doing it from your phone. I’m sure the app will eventually catch up.

Edit: I should clarify that I’m talking about the iOS app and I have no experience with the Android app.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

At this point is anyone using the Cash Plus account as their "primary" "checking" account? All credit bills ACH'd, etc.? Working well for you?
runcyc
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by runcyc »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:54 am At this point is anyone using the Cash Plus account as their "primary" "checking" account? All credit bills ACH'd, etc.? Working well for you?
I still have my local Bank checking account, but very rarely use it for anything other than about 5 checks per year payable to local service providers that do work at my home. With the exception of not being linked with Treasury Direct, I use Vanguard Cash Plus for all my cash flow needs and am satisfied with VCP.
retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by retiringwhen »

I am using CP for about 80% of my transactions. I still have some income and outgoing from my classic credit union checking, but dollar wise, the vast majority is going through CP.

The big thing is that I leave almost all spending cash in CP now, increasing the return on my 30-45 day cash holdings.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

retiringwhen wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:25 pm I am using CP for about 80% of my transactions. I still have some income and outgoing from my classic credit union checking, but dollar wise, the vast majority is going through CP.

The big thing is that I leave almost all spending cash in CP now, increasing the return on my 30-45 day cash holdings.
It actually looks like one could "beat" the Fidelity Brokerage account SPAXX sweep fund if you're willing to buy/sell here and there. Keep 50% cash in FDIC 4.7% and 50% cash in VUSXX which earns way more than SPAXX.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:54 am At this point is anyone using the Cash Plus account as their "primary" "checking" account? All credit bills ACH'd, etc.? Working well for you?
I began the transition in mid-January, and have since completed two full billing cycles:

- two payroll direct deposits (a Fortune 500 Co and a state flagship Uni)
- two insurance companies (term life & disability)
- four utility companies
- six credit card companies (BofA, Chase, Citi, Elan, Discover, Wells Fargo)

All working as expected, no issues whatsoever.

Young adult son is currently in the process of switching over.

My only gripe are the withdrawal email notifications that can't be disabled, but they are promising upcoming alerts customizations, so hopefully that will get resolved.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
manlymatt83
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:56 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:54 am At this point is anyone using the Cash Plus account as their "primary" "checking" account? All credit bills ACH'd, etc.? Working well for you?
All working as expected, no issues whatsoever.
Curious, what made you choose Vanguard Cash Plus over Fidelity CMA?
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:48 pm Curious, what made you choose Vanguard Cash Plus over Fidelity CMA?
A higher APR with no need to jump through hoops and risk inexplicable payment failures.

(I actually have a CMA account since 2010, but mainly use it for ATM access and check-writing).
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Tattarrattat »

So the Fidelity CMA is instituting SPAXX as an option for the settlement fund in the CMA, I think in June. 7 day yield 4.96%. So can have your entire checking account in SPAXX without having to buy manually. Very user friendly.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by nps »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:37 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:48 pm Curious, what made you choose Vanguard Cash Plus over Fidelity CMA?
A higher APR with no need to jump through hoops and risk inexplicable payment failures.

(I actually have a CMA account since 2010, but mainly use it for ATM access and check-writing).
Fidelity CMA will soon allow SPAXX as a default sweep option, so no more hoops and a higher yield than Vanguard CP.
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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

nps wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:39 pm Fidelity CMA will soon allow SPAXX as a default sweep option, so no more hoops and a higher yield than Vanguard CP.
Good. Then they'll be worthy of consideration.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Lastrun »

nps wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:39 pm and a higher yield than Vanguard CP.
For now….. It will be interesting to see what happens to Cash Plus if the fed lowers rates. A good long read of the One Stop Shop thread shows two things: when rates went to the floor, post count dropped significantly and some of those that did post admitted moving cash to HYSAs. So we’ll see what happens with Cash Plus, do they try to compete with MMFs or HYSAs? I suspect the former.

Vulcan has been consistent about in this thread that Vulcan is looking for simplicity and good enough and cash plus works in both regards.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

Lastrun wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:39 pm Vulcan has been consistent about in this thread that Vulcan is looking for simplicity and good enough and cash plus works in both regards.
And if I am honest, a MMF-backed 0.3% APR bump is not going to sway me into giving Fidelity CMA another try (other than as ATM withdrawal backup to Schwab).

I had an ACH payment (a withdrawal to Ally, actually) fail once years ago with some arcane explanation given by Fidelity customer service that soured me on their product for anything but most basic, least mission-critical of functions.

There are similar reports from time to time in that interminable "one-stop shop" thread, and I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation for it every time, but honestly, if it takes a hundred plus page thread to work out and document all the kinks, then it's just not something I am going to trust my daily cash flow to, especially now that a perfectly simple and seemingly rock-solid FDIC-insured option is available.
Last edited by Vulcan on Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:17 pm
Lastrun wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:39 pm Vulcan has been consistent about in this thread that Vulcan is looking for simplicity and good enough and cash plus works in both regards.
And if I am honest, a MMF-backed 0.3% APR bump is not going to sway me into giving Fidelity CMA another try.

I had an ACH payment (a withdrawal to Ally, actually) fail once years ago with some arcane explanation given by Fidelity customer service that soured me on their product for anything but most basic, least mission-critical of functions.

There are similar reports from time to time in that interminable "one-stop shop" thread, and I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation for it every time, but honestly, if it takes a hundred plus page thread to work out and document all the kinks, then it's just not something I am going to trust my daily cash flow to, especially now that a perfectly simple and seemingly rock-solid FDIC-insured option is available.
Vulcan, do you use vanguard as a one stop shop? Any objection to doing that?
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by Vulcan »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:19 pm Vulcan, do you use vanguard as a one stop shop? Any objection to doing that?
I have no particular interest in having a "one-stop shop" per se.

Vanguard has our IRAs and now the main checking account, Fidelity has DW's workplace accounts and CMA, we have accounts at several other banks/CUs that are useful for separation purposes (Venmo/PayPal tie into one of them, ATMs used with others), and of course Vanguard doesn't offer credit cards (and neither does Fidelity, really - their excellent card is issued by Elan).

My true one-stop shop is Microsoft Money, where it all comes together for a complete up-to-the penny visibility. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Vulcan on Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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manlymatt83
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:22 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:19 pm Vulcan, do you use vanguard as a one stop shop? Any objection to doing that?
I have no particular interest in having a "one-stop shop" per se.

Vanguard has our IRAs and now the main checking account, Fidelity has DW's workplace accounts and CMA, we have accounts at several other banks/CUs that are useful for separation purposes (Venmo/PayPal tie into one of them, ATMs used with others), and of course Vanguard doesn't offer credit cards (and nither does Fidelity, really).

My true one-stop shop is Microsoft Money, where it all comes together for a complete up-to-the penny visibility. :mrgreen:
For someone who wanted to use vanguard as a one stop shop, would you argue against it? If they didn’t need a debit card or checks?
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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:23 pm For someone who wanted to use vanguard as a one stop shop, would you argue against it? If they didn’t need a debit card or checks?
Nope. I would in fact encourage it.

I view a lack of check and debit card access as a security feature that makes me more comfortable with maintaining a five-digit balance in my main transaction account.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

Post by manlymatt83 »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:25 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:23 pm For someone who wanted to use vanguard as a one stop shop, would you argue against it? If they didn’t need a debit card or checks?
Nope. I would in fact encourage it.

I view a lack of check and debit card access as a security feature that makes me more comfortable with maintaining a five-digit balance in my main transaction account.
I am still early in my career. One thing I notice is that my mutual fund investments at vanguard have done the best over the last 5 years.

I have had stuff at Schwab. Fidelity. Robinhood. I’ve done options trading. It’s easy to buy and sell. I’ve lost money.

I like that vanguard stuff typically “protects me from myself”. It’s funny that the majority of my VTWAX has beat my other accounts where I’ve “dabbled”.

Makes me want to just stick with vanguard including for checking. I feel like they’ll always have my interest in mind for keeping it simple and staying the course.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:28 pm I like that vanguard stuff typically “protects me from myself”. It’s funny that the majority of my VTWAX has beat my other accounts where I’ve “dabbled”.

Makes me want to just stick with vanguard including for checking. I feel like they’ll always have my interest in mind for keeping it simple and staying the course.
That is an excellent reason to stick with Vanguard.
That and VTWAX. :sharebeer

All our investments at Vanguard are in that one fund (with workplace accounts at Fidelity approximating it with other Vanguard funds).

And yes, I too trust Vanguard to keep my interest in mind more than any of their competitors, even if said competitors keep better call center hours.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:17 pm There are similar reports from time to time in that interminable "one-stop shop" thread, and I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation for it every time, but honestly, if it takes a hundred plus page thread to work out and document all the kinks, then it's just not something I am going to trust my daily cash flow to, especially now that a perfectly simple and seemingly rock-solid FDIC-insured option is available.
Funny enough, but this Cash Plus discussion is well ahead of the post count rate of that other thread, and with much detail on failed ACH connections at places like Comcast, Target, Treasury Direct, and the IRS. I wouldn't compare them to make an argument for simplicity.

I also think it's a poor characterization. Most of the contortions described ad nauseam in the "one stop shop" thread are to automate getting higher rate returns given the limited default sweep options in the Fidelity CMA. With that expanding now to SPAXX (4.96% yield) it just got a lot simpler.
Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:25 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:23 pm For someone who wanted to use vanguard as a one stop shop, would you argue against it? If they didn’t need a debit card or checks?
Nope. I would in fact encourage it.

I view a lack of check and debit card access as a security feature that makes me more comfortable with maintaining a five-digit balance in my main transaction account.
Ok, or if you use another brokerage/CMA account just never enable checkwriting and disable any debit card provided. It's the same result - not a differentiator.
Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:39 pm And yes, I too trust Vanguard to keep my interest in mind more than any of their competitors, even if said competitors keep better call center hours.
I trust all companies to keep their own interests in mind, not mine. Sometimes the actions they take benefit me, sometimes not. I evaluate them on their products and services and not how they make me feel. And I certainly don't take my eye off the ball by assuming they are looking out for me. YMMV
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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nps wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:35 am I also think it's a poor characterization. Most of the contortions described ad nauseam in the "one stop shop" thread are to automate getting higher rate returns given the limited default sweep options in the Fidelity CMA. With that expanding now to SPAXX (4.96% yield) it just got a lot simpler.
Yes, but without that higher rate of return CMA wasn't really all that attractive.
So in a sense, it is only getting into the CP territory now, with a half-a-year delay.
Coincidence?
nps wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:35 am I trust all companies to keep their own interests in mind, not mine. Sometimes the actions they take benefit me, sometimes not. I evaluate them on their products and services and not how they make me feel. And I certainly don't take my eye off the ball by assuming they are looking out for me. YMMV
I certainly do that as well.

As I said, I have no "one stop shop" aspirations.

That said, whether a company is likely to try to recoup its loss-leader investments by upselling or price-gouging my future heirs is a consideration.

Like Zero funds you can't transfer out - what's that about? Looks like a trap to me. Doesn't pass the smell test. Compare that to not just free transfer-outs (IIRC), but free ETF conversions at Vanguard. Off-topic, but just an example to illustrate my point.

At any rate, CMA implementing hoop-free high-rate option would be a welcome change and would likely mean I will use my decade-and-a-half old CMA account more actively.

But to my kids and other family, I will still recommend CP.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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Vulcan wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:25 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:23 pm For someone who wanted to use vanguard as a one stop shop, would you argue against it? If they didn’t need a debit card or checks?
Nope. I would in fact encourage it.

I view a lack of check and debit card access as a security feature that makes me more comfortable with maintaining a five-digit balance in my main transaction account.
I also see the lack of overdraft protection on the CP deposit account as a positive security feature although it sounds like some people would like that. I can keep three or four digits in the CP FDIC deposit account accessible to ACH payments while keeping four or five figures in purchased money market accounts either within the CP account or in my taxable brokerage account. I don't mind going in to sell the purchased money market account and don't need same day liquidity on anything. If I have an expense on a credit card I just log into Vanguard, sell money market shares, and a few days later (or when bill is due) pay off the credit card at the issuers website where I can enter the CP ACH information.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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I have both F and V and could use either. I feel like F is going to be more reliable from an IT and customer service perspective. Plus the F CMA has been running reliably for a long time. A V had a prior checking type account product that they abandoned a few years ago and now they're back in the game again with a similar product. Seems a little flaky.
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Re: Vanguard Cash Plus Account

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Vulcan wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:17 am
nps wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:35 am I also think it's a poor characterization. Most of the contortions described ad nauseam in the "one stop shop" thread are to automate getting higher rate returns given the limited default sweep options in the Fidelity CMA. With that expanding now to SPAXX (4.96% yield) it just got a lot simpler.
Yes, but without that higher rate of return CMA wasn't really all that attractive.
So in a sense, it is only getting into the CP territory now, with a half-a-year delay.
Coincidence?
I don't know or care if it's a coincidence.
Vulcan wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:17 am
nps wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:35 am I trust all companies to keep their own interests in mind, not mine. Sometimes the actions they take benefit me, sometimes not. I evaluate them on their products and services and not how they make me feel. And I certainly don't take my eye off the ball by assuming they are looking out for me. YMMV
I certainly do that as well.

As I said, I have no "one stop shop" aspirations.

That said, whether a company is likely to try to recoup its loss-leader investments by upselling or price-gouging my future heirs is a consideration.
I agree it's a worthwhile consideration. I don't assume that Vanguard wouldn't do this though.
stan1 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:45 am I also see the lack of overdraft protection on the CP deposit account as a positive security feature although it sounds like some people would like that.
Again, every broker provides this. Overdraft protection, if offered, is something you would need to opt into. So it's not a particular security feature unique to Vanguard. It would be nice to see them implement ACATS lockdown though.
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