Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

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shavenyak
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Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by shavenyak »

How do assets subject to a living trust have to be specified to be passed along simply and practically to beneficiaries? Here's what little I know: a family member, who had dementia (only) during recent years, died as the trustor of a living trust established in 2002. Re: the trust's assets, the trust says the property subject to the trust is listed in an "attached schedule." The two trustees don't have any "schedule"...they only have a hard copy of the trust itself with no "schedule" and there is no electronic copy of anything (the sole practitioner attorney died years ago...no records are available). There was never any other document other than the trust to communicate the wishes of the deceased family member, so the idea was presumably for the trust (and "schedule") to account for all of the trustor's assets.

This being the case, is there still a requirement that every asset of the deceased trustor, e.g., a bank savings account, have to have some specification in its title(?) that it, the asset, is meant to be included in the trust? The beneficiaries of the trust are clear from the document itself...all of the estate's assets are to be divided evenly among four beneficiaries and there have been and will be no other individuals claiming to be beneficiaries of the modest estate.

Thanks in advance.
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retired@50
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by retired@50 »

shavenyak wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am ...
This being the case, is there still a requirement that every asset of the deceased trustor, e.g., a bank savings account, have to have some specification in its title(?) that it, the asset, is meant to be included in the trust?
As I understand it, if an account isn't titled correctly as part of the trust, then it's not "in" the trust and is just a personal account at that point.

Do any of the accounts have beneficiary designations that may collide with the instructions in the trust?

Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
jebmke
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by jebmke »

retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:51 am
shavenyak wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am ...
This being the case, is there still a requirement that every asset of the deceased trustor, e.g., a bank savings account, have to have some specification in its title(?) that it, the asset, is meant to be included in the trust?
As I understand it, if an account isn't titled correctly as part of the trust, then it's not "in" the trust and is just a personal account at that point.

Do any of the accounts have beneficiary designations that may collide with the instructions in the trust?

Regards,
Our trusts are unfunded. I believe (will have to go back and check) that the assets pour over into the trusts upon death. Real property and personal property transfer to the surviving spouse in our case and do not go into the trust.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
toddthebod
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by toddthebod »

shavenyak wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am How do assets subject to a living trust have to be specified to be passed along simply and practically to beneficiaries? Here's what little I know: a family member, who had dementia (only) during recent years, died as the trustor of a living trust established in 2002. Re: the trust's assets, the trust says the property subject to the trust is listed in an "attached schedule." The two trustees don't have any "schedule"...they only have a hard copy of the trust itself with no "schedule" and there is no electronic copy of anything (the sole practitioner attorney died years ago...no records are available). There was never any other document other than the trust to communicate the wishes of the deceased family member, so the idea was presumably for the trust (and "schedule") to account for all of the trustor's assets.

This being the case, is there still a requirement that every asset of the deceased trustor, e.g., a bank savings account, have to have some specification in its title(?) that it, the asset, is meant to be included in the trust? The beneficiaries of the trust are clear from the document itself...all of the estate's assets are to be divided evenly among four beneficiaries and there have been and will be no other individuals claiming to be beneficiaries of the modest estate.

Thanks in advance.
If the assets are not titled to the trust prior to death, or the trust does not identify those assets by name, there is no question those assets are not in the trust. I assume there is a will as well, though, does the will specify that the assets go to the trust?
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retired@50
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by retired@50 »

jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:54 am
retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:51 am
shavenyak wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am ...
This being the case, is there still a requirement that every asset of the deceased trustor, e.g., a bank savings account, have to have some specification in its title(?) that it, the asset, is meant to be included in the trust?
As I understand it, if an account isn't titled correctly as part of the trust, then it's not "in" the trust and is just a personal account at that point.

Do any of the accounts have beneficiary designations that may collide with the instructions in the trust?

Regards,
Our trusts are unfunded. I believe (will have to go back and check) that the assets pour over into the trusts upon death. Real property and personal property transfer to the surviving spouse in our case and do not go into the trust.
Is your trust considered a "living trust" as the OP stated in this case?

I realize there are probably many more options for trust creation than I'm aware of, but I've only dealt with a revocable living trust, which then became irrevocable after the second grantor died.

Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
bsteiner
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by bsteiner »

retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:34 pm ... I've only dealt with a revocable living trust, which then became irrevocable after the second grantor died.
In a common law state, a couple would have either separate revocable trusts or no revocable trusts.

In a community property state (or occasionally if a couple moves from a community property state to a common law state) they would usually have a single revocable trust, but upon the first spouse's death, his/her half of the community property might be divided into marital and nonmarital shares. The nonmarital share (the credit shelter or bypass share) would become irrevocable. The marital share could go to the spouse outright (in other words, be added to the surviving spouse's share and be revocable by the surviving spouse, or it could be in a marital (QTIP) trust. Or the deceased spouse's share could go to the surviving spouse with a disclaimer trust as backup.
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shavenyak
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by shavenyak »

Thank you for your replies. As stated, other than what's said in the trust, there is no will or anything else in writing to communicate the wishes of the deceased or provide any other directions. Since the trust's attachment, which supposedly makes reference to assets, is lost, it appears there's no way around the fact that only assets that specifically make reference to the trust in their titles can be considered part of the trust.
toddthebod
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Re: Specification of Assets Subject to a Living Trust

Post by toddthebod »

shavenyak wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:28 am Thank you for your replies. As stated, other than what's said in the trust, there is no will or anything else in writing to communicate the wishes of the deceased or provide any other directions. Since the trust's attachment, which supposedly makes reference to assets, is lost, it appears there's no way around the fact that only assets that specifically make reference to the trust in their titles can be considered part of the trust.
Sorry, that sucks, it sounds like the estate will be treated as if he died intestate.
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