Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

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jebmke
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by jebmke »

dknightd wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:56 am We have friends that live in a Lagoon community in Florida. They seem to be happy.
If I was going to buy there, I'd look for a house on stilts.
When we were buying in 2007 I was careful to check elevations of houses, access roads and ask people where the water came with hurricane Isabel. If people mumbled "I don't remember" I knew it was a problem - everyone around here knew where the high water mark was. We are at 20 feet above MLW which should be good enough. This week I noticed a nearby neighbor is having his dock re-built; it is often under water with king tides or storm tides. He is elevating the dock level and putting in a floating finger to handle access.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
Bcdkgf
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by Bcdkgf »

goonie wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:40 am
Gash wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:58 am My close friends moved into a Lagoon community two or three years ago. The builder didn't install the liners correctly and water leaked, causing several sinkholes. Last I spoke to them the community had over $4mm in repairs, had to get mandatory sinkhole insurance, and building of new homes has ceased as nobody wants to come close to the subdivision. Their home has been on the market 60 days. No offers.

Good luck!
Yikes, I didn't even think about that possibility.

Pasco and Hillsborough counties (where they've built 3 of the lagoons in the Tampa area and are planning on building another) are 2 of the 3 counties in Florida that make up "sinkhole alley".
We had neighbors in Gainesville, Fl who tried to create a small pond by lining a depression and filling it with well water. A sinkhole opened up, then it was repaired and they added water and then another sinkhole opened up. They gave up on having a pond. Sink Hole Alley is well named. Water is heavy, depressions mark underground cavities and the weight just opens them up.
Women and men plan, the Gods laugh.
ItzaHoot
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by ItzaHoot »

y JoeNJ28 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:57 am

ETK517 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:43 am
Seems like some people think these "lagoons" are like manmade ponds, but if you read the WSJ article, they are actually gigantic pools with chemically-treated water. Bugs and the like shouldn't be an issue.
Oh that’s got to be healthy.

We looked at the Mirada (San Antonio, FL) community last year. The lagoon is huge, shallow, and a lined man made shallow lake with treated and even colored water and an artificial sand beah with other amenities. Sadly, there's an extra charge above the HOA or lagoon access in those communities and it is also open to the general public for a fee.

Also be aware that CDD's (Community Development Districts are a ting down here. Basically, the developer tkes on a huge debt to pay for land and infrastructure, sells you the home, and the debt for development is added to your taxes. Good deal for the government since they don't pay up front for infrastructure, good deal for the developer since they can advertise lower prices and add the debt to your taxes, and bad news for you when your tax bill hits.
Valuethinker
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by Valuethinker »

jebmke wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:08 am
dknightd wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:56 am We have friends that live in a Lagoon community in Florida. They seem to be happy.
If I was going to buy there, I'd look for a house on stilts.
When we were buying in 2007 I was careful to check elevations of houses, access roads and ask people where the water came with hurricane Isabel. If people mumbled "I don't remember" I knew it was a problem - everyone around here knew where the high water mark was. We are at 20 feet above MLW which should be good enough. This week I noticed a nearby neighbor is having his dock re-built; it is often under water with king tides or storm tides. He is elevating the dock level and putting in a floating finger to handle access.
Prudent. The Atlantic coast is... susceptible to increasing levels of flooding.
jebmke
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by jebmke »

Valuethinker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:39 am
jebmke wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:08 am
dknightd wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:56 am We have friends that live in a Lagoon community in Florida. They seem to be happy.
If I was going to buy there, I'd look for a house on stilts.
When we were buying in 2007 I was careful to check elevations of houses, access roads and ask people where the water came with hurricane Isabel. If people mumbled "I don't remember" I knew it was a problem - everyone around here knew where the high water mark was. We are at 20 feet above MLW which should be good enough. This week I noticed a nearby neighbor is having his dock re-built; it is often under water with king tides or storm tides. He is elevating the dock level and putting in a floating finger to handle access.
Prudent. The Atlantic coast is... susceptible to increasing levels of flooding.
yes; and in this area, the land is sinking so the apparent rise is often 2x or more. Salt intrusion is killing off some cropland and forests even before the water gets there.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
Valuethinker
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by Valuethinker »

eri wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:37 am Close your eyes and imagine what it might look like in 20 years. Some problem with hoa? I’m thinking of the beachfront condos where no one would vote to pay for maintainance. Combined with storms and sea level rise it’s hard to imagine these projects aging well.

Reminds me of those beach projects in Dubai.
UAE/ Dubai is worse, even.

The sand in the desert is not suitable for beaches. Sand particles rubbing against sand particles has made it "too smooth".

So they import their sand (sand is also a key component of making concrete, so there's already huge demands on the world sand supply). This leads to widespread despoiling of beaches. Countries lock down on sand exports. So other beaches, in countries with corrupt local administration or nonexistent governance fill the gap. Race for the bottom of the Third World, in effect.

https://www.amazon.com/Material-World-M ... 164&sr=8-1 one of the chapters in this fantastic book Ed Conway "Material World" is about sand & silicon.

Dubai has built beaches which cannot last. At the cost of natural beaches in other countries.

The Florida condominium collapse had a lot of unique factors. There was a BBC documentary on it (presumably originally a US show). Also Jeff Goodell (who has written a number of good articles and books on the environment, for Rolling Stone magazine) wrote a piece on it just after the disaster:

- apparently the 1970s condo boom (after condos became a legal form of ownership) was at a time when Miami construction industry was heavily Mafia-controlled (like the fireproofing in the WTC). Thus standards of materials and construction may just not have been observed

- a structural engineering report had been done recommending immediate remediation. Specific reasons why it was not then done

- there may have been a fundamental design flaw (unfortunately, Dr Stephen Ressler, professor emeritus USMA, who does amazing courses on Structural Engineering, and on Engineering Failures for The Great Courses, hasn't done an episode on that -- but I was reminded of his episode on Oklahoma City, a (legal) design choice made at the time of construction left the building particularly vulnerable to the collapse of one of the main structural pillars**).


** my late father, a one time Royal Engineer (British Army regiment), had similar conversations with me when I was growing up. I was glad he had never worked on WTC, because it would have hurt him very much to see the towers fall.
eri
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by eri »

Sure the Florida condo collapse is interesting engineering archeology but I think the relevant issue here is that the condo association couldn’t agree on repairs. They kicked the can down the road letting problem get more and more expensive. For me the main show was all the anger and correspondence and board members quitting in disgust.

Name of the game with condo association is you need to have a bunch of people agree to spend money on their common resource - but how likely is that? Does being chained to a hoa board sound appetizing if the lagoon expenses skyrocket? If not maintained the lagoon reverts into a brine swamp.

What with my opinion of warming and storm severity I literally cannot imagine these things looking good in 20 years. The folks that can afford to move will move.
jebmke
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by jebmke »

eri wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:40 pm Sure the Florida condo collapse is interesting engineering archeology but I think the relevant issue here is that the condo association couldn’t agree on repairs. They kicked the can down the road letting problem get more and more expensive. For me the main show was all the anger and correspondence and board members quitting in disgust.

Name of the game with condo association is you need to have a bunch of people agree to spend money on their common resource - but how likely is that? Does being chained to a hoa board sound appetizing if the lagoon expenses skyrocket? If not maintained the lagoon reverts into a brine swamp.

What with my opinion of warming and storm severity I literally cannot imagine these things looking good in 20 years. The folks that can afford to move will move.
We got a preview of that with abandoned houses with pools following the collapse of housing in the great recession.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
smitcat
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Re: Lagoon communities in Florida - Thoughts/personal experiences?

Post by smitcat »

jebmke wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:46 am
Valuethinker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:39 am
jebmke wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:08 am
dknightd wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:56 am We have friends that live in a Lagoon community in Florida. They seem to be happy.
If I was going to buy there, I'd look for a house on stilts.
When we were buying in 2007 I was careful to check elevations of houses, access roads and ask people where the water came with hurricane Isabel. If people mumbled "I don't remember" I knew it was a problem - everyone around here knew where the high water mark was. We are at 20 feet above MLW which should be good enough. This week I noticed a nearby neighbor is having his dock re-built; it is often under water with king tides or storm tides. He is elevating the dock level and putting in a floating finger to handle access.
Prudent. The Atlantic coast is... susceptible to increasing levels of flooding.
yes; and in this area, the land is sinking so the apparent rise is often 2x or more. Salt intrusion is killing off some cropland and forests even before the water gets there.
You can utilize the SLOSH map 3 to check out the actual area/street. You can toggle between the hurricane levels on the top of the map and zoom in and out to review the exact street and address...
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/nationalsurge/?text
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