bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
leland
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by leland »

Didn't mean to add to your backlog on a weekend, but maybe it beats the other chores? :D
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

leland wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:56 pm Didn't mean to add to your backlog on a weekend, but maybe it beats the other chores? :D
Not a problem. Always hungry for feedback/requests!
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retiredjg
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by retiredjg »

leland wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:15 pm Just wanted to give a thank you for this work. I need to post a portfolio review as am in the midst of transitioning to being a better boglehead (albeit with more complexity than most :oops:) and this makes it easy although scary with long the export would be. More than that this has been really handy as an import method for me to use in just gathering the data and percentages for me to see and begin to grok.

A few things I've been puzzling over (PMs welcome as these may be unwelcome thread forks):
  • My 401k has a split between Roth and Traditional - that's hidden by Fidelity - not sure if there's a good way to expose it or categorize those accounts via export or manually; for the latter it's likely user error or not RTFM
  • In highly added complexity I've used the self-directed brokerage feature of the 401k (thanks to a now-former advisor) - no question there, it's just even messier for the above item of categorizing holdings/accounts
  • I'm setting up my own (simple) spreadsheet to do portfolio planning using this data as a basis as I need to get to a new portfolio model post-advisor; I'd be curious to see if anyone else has exported and set up their planning world
When you post your portfolio review, do not worry about splitting Roth 401k and traditional 401k...but do mention that the account consists of both.
sandramjet
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by sandramjet »

One thought about the display of portfolio from a "tax type" view...

You display things like the 401k and IRA as "pre-tax"(1), Other accounts as "taxable"(2), Roths as "post tax"(3), etc. You have the legend below shown as:
Current Tax law:
1- total sale treated as Earned Income
2- profits of sale treated as Capital Gains
3- no taxes on sale


I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate to label things as "tax-deferred", "taxable", "tax free". Part of this is because I see that I-Bonds in my portfolio are listed as "pre-tax", but I think of that as meaning I didn't pay taxes on the money I used to buy them. It seems like it would be more clear to group them as to tax treatment when withdrawing from them. Similarly I have (unfortunately) an annuity that is tax-deferred, but it shows up under the "taxable" grouping.

I think it would be better to group as:
"tax-deferred" - generally taxed when withdrawn as ordinary income
"taxable" - generally taxed when withdrawn as either income or capital gains
"tax-free" - generally not taxed at all when withdrawn

Just my view ... not necessarily the right view!
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

sandramjet wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:53 pm One thought about the display of portfolio from a "tax type" view...

You display things like the 401k and IRA as "pre-tax"(1), Other accounts as "taxable"(2), Roths as "post tax"(3), etc. You have the legend below shown as:
Current Tax law:
1- total sale treated as Earned Income
2- profits of sale treated as Capital Gains
3- no taxes on sale


I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate to label things as "tax-deferred", "taxable", "tax free". Part of this is because I see that I-Bonds in my portfolio are listed as "pre-tax", but I think of that as meaning I didn't pay taxes on the money I used to buy them. It seems like it would be more clear to group them as to tax treatment when withdrawing from them. Similarly I have (unfortunately) an annuity that is tax-deferred, but it shows up under the "taxable" grouping.

I think it would be better to group as:
"tax-deferred" - generally taxed when withdrawn as ordinary income
"taxable" - generally taxed when withdrawn as either income or capital gains
"tax-free" - generally not taxed at all when withdrawn

Just my view ... not necessarily the right view!
IBONDs in my portfolio show up in the taxable category when I use the tax-types view.

My Treasury Direct accounts are categorized as Taxable account types.

It also shows the interest earned above cost basis. So that feels right.
Thoughts?


As for renaming the tax type category names…I’ve opened an issue to track that here: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/288

Interested in more opinions too.
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retiredjg
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by retiredjg »

sandramjet wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:53 pm One thought about the display of portfolio from a "tax type" view...

You display things like the 401k and IRA as "pre-tax"(1), Other accounts as "taxable"(2), Roths as "post tax"(3), etc. You have the legend below shown as:
Current Tax law:
1- total sale treated as Earned Income
2- profits of sale treated as Capital Gains
3- no taxes on sale
Can you provide a link to what you are talking about here please?

I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate to label things as "tax-deferred", "taxable", "tax free". Part of this is because I see that I-Bonds in my portfolio are listed as "pre-tax", but I think of that as meaning I didn't pay taxes on the money I used to buy them. It seems like it would be more clear to group them as to tax treatment when withdrawing from them. Similarly I have (unfortunately) an annuity that is tax-deferred, but it shows up under the "taxable" grouping.

I think it would be better to group as:
"tax-deferred" - generally taxed when withdrawn as ordinary income
"taxable" - generally taxed when withdrawn as either income or capital gains
"tax-free" - generally not taxed at all when withdrawn

Just my view ... not necessarily the right view!
Maybe I'm confused about what you are talking about, but I don't think either of these lists is useful for the "asking portfolio questions" format. Account types and tax treatments are not arm in arm.
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

retiredjg wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:58 pm
sandramjet wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:53 pm One thought about the display of portfolio from a "tax type" view...

You display things like the 401k and IRA as "pre-tax"(1), Other accounts as "taxable"(2), Roths as "post tax"(3), etc. You have the legend below shown as:
Current Tax law:
1- total sale treated as Earned Income
2- profits of sale treated as Capital Gains
3- no taxes on sale
Can you provide a link to what you are talking about here please?
If you have a portfolio in the portfolio tracker, https://bogle.tools/portfolio-tracker/tax-types will take you to the tax-types view, which is what samramjet is discussing.

retiredjg wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:58 pm
sandramjet wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:53 pm I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate to label things as "tax-deferred", "taxable", "tax free". Part of this is because I see that I-Bonds in my portfolio are listed as "pre-tax", but I think of that as meaning I didn't pay taxes on the money I used to buy them. It seems like it would be more clear to group them as to tax treatment when withdrawing from them. Similarly I have (unfortunately) an annuity that is tax-deferred, but it shows up under the "taxable" grouping.

I think it would be better to group as:
"tax-deferred" - generally taxed when withdrawn as ordinary income
"taxable" - generally taxed when withdrawn as either income or capital gains
"tax-free" - generally not taxed at all when withdrawn

Just my view ... not necessarily the right view!
Maybe I'm confused about what you are talking about, but I don't think either of these lists is useful for the "asking portfolio questions" format. Account types and tax treatments are not arm in arm.
I don’t yet have a thread dedicated to portfolio tracker, the closest thing right now is:
tracking IBONDs in your portfolio with bogle.tools

I plan to create a portfolio tracker focused thread soon, but it might be a few weeks before I can give it the focus it needs.
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

retiredjg wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:59 pm
Rob Relyea wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:48 pm I don't think current/previous falls into the same category...of must choose. We could do that...but what would the desired behavior be when somebody didn't choose yet...just omit the "current" or "previous" word from the output?
The desired behavior is that they cannot go forward until they choose one. The way one handles a current 401k or other work plan is entirely different from how one handles an old plan. To give good advice, the "helper" must know what s/he is dealing with.

If we did leave it with a default...do you like the default we have now? "previous" or would you prefer "current" as the default setting?
As far as I'm concerned, there cannot be a default because people will miss the box and then it will be garbage in - garbage out.

That is my greatest concern with this tool you are trying to develop. Unless the input is idiot proof, the entire discussion will be garbage in --->garbage out. Or endless requests to "please edit your post to show....whatever". There is more than enough of that without the tool introducing more.
Just fixed this issue... defaults 401k employer to n/a, but allows "current" or "previous" choices too.
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retiredjg
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by retiredjg »

Rob Relyea wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:30 pm
retiredjg wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:59 pm
Rob Relyea wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:48 pm I don't think current/previous falls into the same category...of must choose. We could do that...but what would the desired behavior be when somebody didn't choose yet...just omit the "current" or "previous" word from the output?
The desired behavior is that they cannot go forward until they choose one. The way one handles a current 401k or other work plan is entirely different from how one handles an old plan. To give good advice, the "helper" must know what s/he is dealing with.

If we did leave it with a default...do you like the default we have now? "previous" or would you prefer "current" as the default setting?
As far as I'm concerned, there cannot be a default because people will miss the box and then it will be garbage in - garbage out.

That is my greatest concern with this tool you are trying to develop. Unless the input is idiot proof, the entire discussion will be garbage in --->garbage out. Or endless requests to "please edit your post to show....whatever". There is more than enough of that without the tool introducing more.
Just fixed this issue... defaults 401k employer to n/a, but allows "current" or "previous" choices too.
I'm sorry Rob but this will not work. :(

There cannot be a default. They must choose one or the other.

A current 401k is handled entirely differently from an old 401k. The reader must know which it is to discuss the portfolio intelligently.
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

retiredjg wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:13 am I'm sorry Rob but this will not work. :(

There cannot be a default. They must choose one or the other.

A current 401k is handled entirely differently from an old 401k. The reader must know which it is to discuss the portfolio intelligently.
I've removed the "n/a" option...and made it so there is no default.
If somebody hasn't chosen an answer, when they view the Portfolio Review output it will say:

Code: Select all

Following account should be classified as from 'current' employer or 'previous' employer using Edit Accounts/Holdings:
[b] 401(k) (0%)[/b]
The Edit Accounts/Holdings text is a hyperlink, which will take one to the right place to go fix it.

Thanks for the continued feedback.
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Redbard
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Redbard »

I attempted to add my portfolio to your tool but no joy.
It would not accept OfxDownload.cvs I downloaded from Vanguard (1 yr and 18mo)
Also curious, when you select File to import, to tool lists media vs normal file selection options
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Rob Relyea
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Rob Relyea »

Redbard wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:14 am I attempted to add my portfolio to your tool but no joy.
It would not accept OfxDownload.cvs I downloaded from Vanguard (1 yr and 18mo)
Also curious, when you select File to import, to tool lists media vs normal file selection options
Sorry that you ran into problems. I'd like to help fix the problem. I've replied to your message in detail here: viewtopic.php?p=7707486#p7707486
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Redbard
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Re: bogle.tools/portfolio-review - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

Post by Redbard »

Rob Relyea wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:46 am
Redbard wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:14 am I attempted to add my portfolio to your tool but no joy.
It would not accept OfxDownload.cvs I downloaded from Vanguard (1 yr and 18mo)
Also curious, when you select File to import, to tool lists media vs normal file selection options
Sorry that you ran into problems. I'd like to help fix the problem. I've replied to your message in detail here: viewtopic.php?p=7707486#p7707486
Thank you, I'll follow your other thread and advise outcome.
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