Painful spending cuts

[Sandtrap]

The most "painful" was having to sell my beloved VW Beetle after college because the insurance in my new city would be too expensive and I didn't drive it enough to justify the cost. After all I lived in a "walkable" city! But having to lug my groceries 20 minutes from the store to my apartment was a huge pain, especially in the summer when the watermelon just looked too good to resist... I ended up getting one of those granny carts, which made it much easier, until the cart, full of groceries, broke. I ended up having to call a friend with a car to come rescue me and all my provisions.

I still miss that Bug. It was so fun to drive and easy to park!

The other only slightly painful thing we do now is that we're a one-car family of four. It's really not an issue during the school year--the kids take the bus to school, we can work from home 75% of the time, the transit is sufficient to get into the office as needed--but during the summer when we're dropping off and picking up at day camps that have weird hours or are across town, the schedule gets very tricky.

Probably everyone ever having a VW Bug remembers how fun they were to drive. Ours was a 1958 bought in 1959. Dad paid full sticker for the car. A man had bought it, and his wife refused to drive it, so he returned it to the dealer. I sold the car in 1970 or 1971 for $500. At the time people were making beach buggies out of them, removing the original body and putting on a new fiberglass body.

Sometime in the early ownership my parents + three children went to Texas in it. Wasn't comfortable, but it was fun. I rode some of the way in the compartment behind the back bench seat.

My turn with the bug was after my sister and brother had their turns, near it's life end. The engine blew, but Dad put in an engine they used in VW busses, a 40HP for busses vs a 36HP for the bugs, IIRC.

I'm sure most owners/drivers knew how to do clutch-less gear shifts.

And who can forget the "emergency fuel" lever that simply opened up a lower fuel draw. Simple, but effective.

I had something most people never had on mine. I took off the pull-rope piece from a lawn mower, and I could crank the car just like a lawn mower, with the pull rope. It didn't take as much effort to crank as the Gravely walk-behind mower we had did.

These are memories that make me smile!

Broken Man 1999

Also a flat engine, but 6 cylinder, not sure the VW van had a 6.
1968 Chevy Corvair Monza


Handled great. Gas mileage was awesome. Constantly overheated.
Spending cuts...bought used, until we could buy a "real car" for our growing family.

Ended up later with a Pontiac Station Wagon, bought used, for our family of four, so we could go to the "drive in theatre" movies and make the backseats into a big bed for the kids to watch the movie and have snacks.

j

[stoptothink]

I wasn't aware that people used beach towels as one's everyday bath towels.

I use whatever is handy, but if there’s a choice, I will always prefer the thinnest most skin-stimulating towel. Often, it’s a beach towel. I don’t understand the fascination with plush and (imo) non-absorbent towels; it seems to me that they just move the water like a squeegee.

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

[ScubaHogg]

- ceasing to flush pee (6 - DW is not on board. Can only really do this in select circumstances. Run the risk of an explosive argument every time you save three cents.)

Words to live by: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down."

Where I live city water is about 4/10 a cent per gallon*…

So is the above a meaningful way to say money?

*assuming you even get above the flat rate minimum charge/usage

[Sandtrap]

I use whatever is handy, but if there’s a choice, I will always prefer the thinnest most skin-stimulating towel. Often, it’s a beach towel. I don’t understand the fascination with plush and (imo) non-absorbent towels; it seems to me that they just move the water like a squeegee.

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

+1
DW an I, family of 4 in 2bdrm 1bth, 600 sf apt. street parking.
Spending cuts: thrift store shopping day.
j

[H-Town]

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

+1. We grew up poor in a third world country. There was stretch of years that our only function is to put food on the table as a meal on a given day wasn’t a guarantee. I already started working in 5th grade. I walked to school by myself as long as I remember, and then walked to the market to work after school. Growing up like that, you either sink or you swim. Nowadays I see kids in middle class Americans got pretty much everything handed to them.

OP asked about painful spending cuts? that’s just a foreign concept to me.

[gatorking]

Once in a while we stay at Super 8 or Motel 6 even though we could afford Holiday Inn or Hilton.

[smitcat]

I use whatever is handy, but if there’s a choice, I will always prefer the thinnest most skin-stimulating towel. Often, it’s a beach towel. I don’t understand the fascination with plush and (imo) non-absorbent towels; it seems to me that they just move the water like a squeegee.

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

Yes, agreed - then the 'problem' mostly becomes how you live with what you now have available.

[Sandtrap]

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

+1. We grew up poor in a third world country. There was stretch of years that our only function is to put food on the table as a meal on a given day wasn’t a guarantee. I already started working in 5th grade. I walked to school by myself as long as I remember, and then walked to the market to work after school. Growing up like that, you either sink or you swim. Nowadays I see kids in middle class Americans got pretty much everything handed to them.

OP asked about painful spending cuts? that’s just a foreign concept to me.

Well said.
Thanks for sharing and pointing out the broad cultural diversity context that is so often ignored when it comes to "spending cuts"
Of course, as the forum, it is in English and largely Westernized, the perspectives are going to be aligned with that.

j

[Godot]

- ceasing to flush pee (6 - DW is not on board. Can only really do this in select circumstances. Run the risk of an explosive argument every time you save three cents.)

Words to live by: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down."

Where I live city water is about 4/10 a cent per gallon*…

So is the above a meaningful way to save money?

*assuming you even get above the flat rate minimum charge/usage

Highly relative, but it's certainly a meaningful way to save water.

[MathWizard]

I use whatever is handy, but if there’s a choice, I will always prefer the thinnest most skin-stimulating towel. Often, it’s a beach towel. I don’t understand the fascination with plush and (imo) non-absorbent towels; it seems to me that they just move the water like a squeegee.

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

I too could not come up with examples of painful cuts which were not dangerous.
When OP provided the example of cutting a sports channel, I have up.

Painful is different for different people.

It is possible that OP has realized that spending has gotten uncomfortably high and is trying to get it back under control.

The comment about not being the first to max a credit card, and that his wife was on board with the experiment suggests that the kids have credit cards . If so, that is a recipe for disaster.

While I suspect that reducing spending may be difficult at this point, this is one time that inflation may be useful. Just by not increasing discretionary spending when getting a raise, putting that towards retirement or emergency funds, real spending is lessened, and retirement/emergency savings goes up.

[PeninsulaPerson]

+1. We grew up poor in a third world country. There was stretch of years that our only function is to put food on the table as a meal on a given day wasn’t a guarantee. I already started working in 5th grade. I walked to school by myself as long as I remember, and then walked to the market to work after school. Growing up like that, you either sink or you swim. Nowadays I see kids in middle class Americans got pretty much everything handed to them.

OP asked about painful spending cuts? that’s just a foreign concept to me.

Well put!

Can't imagine the OP telling his kids, "No summer camp this year!" -- let alone, "Kid, you're 11 and the family needs to you start working."

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the OP tell his wife that they are never buying new towels -or- getting their hair cut & colored professionally again. (Some women have hair that's okay with. Others just don't. It's totally different for men.)

Thank you for sharing your lived reality about spending vs. not spending.

Possible the OP should be focusing more on stewardship - which is a blessing and a challenge too!

Practicing struggling seems like a waste of the gifts of a generous Universe but to each their own.

[Sandtrap]

+1. We grew up poor in a third world country. There was stretch of years that our only function is to put food on the table as a meal on a given day wasn’t a guarantee. I already started working in 5th grade. I walked to school by myself as long as I remember, and then walked to the market to work after school. Growing up like that, you either sink or you swim. Nowadays I see kids in middle class Americans got pretty much everything handed to them.

OP asked about painful spending cuts? that’s just a foreign concept to me.

Well put!

Can't imagine the OP telling his kids, "No summer camp this year!" -- let alone, "Kid, you're 11 and the family needs to you start working."

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the OP tell his wife that they are never buying new towels -or- getting their hair cut & colored professionally again. (Some women have hair that's okay with. Others just don't. It's totally different for men.)

Thank you for sharing your lived reality about spending vs. not spending.

Possible the OP should be focusing more on stewardship - which is a blessing and a challenge too!

Practicing struggling seems like a waste of the gifts of a generous Universe but to each their own.

well said.

spending cuts: (substitutions)
For example:
generic "costco" oatmeal vs name brand "quaker oats" from the grocery store.
the list of possibles are endless here.

j

[stoptothink]

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

I too could not come up with examples of painful cuts which were not dangerous.
When OP provided the example of cutting a sports channel, I have up.

Painful is different for different people.

Such is my confusion with this thread in general. Pretty much everything mentioned in this thread, I've never even had - the only examples I can think of in my own life were quite literally physically painful (ie. going without food or needed medical treatment). That's not to downplay the experience of others or the "pain" to them of cutting that item or service out of their lives, but how can this thread be actionable when "painful" in this context is so subjective?

[pizzy]

how can this thread be actionable when "painful" in this context is so subjective?

You keep asking this. Why do you want this thread shut down so bad?

Does it make you *uncomfortable that other people spend their money on expanded lifestyles through consumption of items/experiences that you didn't have while growing up and now choose to withhold from you and your family?

*If uncomfortable is the wrong word, I apologize, but maybe you can share what word you would replace it with.

There is also a chance I misunderstand how you've chosen to live, even though there's been countless examples of you professing your frugality and lack of spending.

[LadyGeek]

The discussion is getting contentious.

Please stay on-topic, which are the consumer aspects.

[Sandtrap]

consumer products and spending and budget and finance:

Budget "Spending Cuts" through;
substitution
or
elimination

for example:
Costco generic steel cut oatmeal, large, pack of 2....vs...Quaker Oats at the Grocery Chain Store
Frozen Salmon Filets. 2 per pack, Health Food Store. 1 filet baked 20 minutes at 350 degrees per meal....vs fresh caught large (too large) pieces.
Costco generic brown sugar vs....Grocery Chain Store name brand, and fancy containers at times.
Mail order condiments: Thai Spicy Orange sauce, pack of 4 online, vs....local store...very expensive..huge markup.
Mail order Thai Brown Rice Flour noodles, organic, etc, ...case of 12...inexpensive and fresher and authentic tasting...vs...name brand local store overpriced.
Mail order "authentic Japan, Chicken Katsu Sauce" thick and tasty.."real" ...vs...watered down American Japanese Katsu Sauce, and pricey.
.....
Like this....price cuts...and end up with better more authentic products, often from overseas.
.....
And, "eliminations save money" IE: expensive....processed foods and meats..."food in a box"...dairy cheeses...frozen things...carbs over nutrition.

j

Other food substitutions that end up better and cost less?

[HomerJ]

The preparation I have in mind is for the pain itself. I’d like to know that when the rainy day hits, if it exhausts my buffers, that I won’t be someone that first maxes out my credit cards / heloc / etc. for discretionary spending, before capitulating. It sounds simple to cut out expenses like cable TV when things are going well, but under duress, I think we’ve all seen or heard of examples where people cannot make sound decisions. They get it into their heads that taking away that expensive holiday is unbearable. Having some training that painful cuts will not break me, would give me the confidence to do it during those dark times.

Taking away the expensive holiday is easy. I mean, just don't plan the next one if bad times hit.

Easy for you, ok. Universally easy, I would disagree with.

Okay, you really got to explain yourself here.

How is NOT taking an expensive vacation that you haven't PLANNED YET super painful?

It sounds to me like you don't need to be practicing painful spending cuts. It sounds to me like you need an emergency fund. Do you have 6-12 months of expenses in cash right now? It sounds to me like you need to be more conservative in your portfolio, so if a 50% stock market crash happens tomorrow (AND IT MIGHT - THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE), you should be able to withstand it.

THOSE are the changes you need to be making right now, not practicing silly "painful spending cuts". Get yourself set right while times are good.

If you lose your job, and you have an emergency fund, you can take the vacation you already planned and paid for, but don't plan or pay for another one until you find another job.

How is that hard?

"Hey honey, I know we have no money coming in... Want to take a river cruise from Amsterdam to Switzerland?"

No, it's NOT HARD to NOT ask that question until you find another job. It's NOT PAINFUL to skip the NEXT vacation when bad times hit.

Sheesh.

Frugality is hard for a lot of people. That is all I meant. I don’t think that is a particularly controversial take. And it certainly wasn’t meant to be an offensive one. Best leave it there I think.

Sorry I blew up a bit... You may be talking about frugality in general. But you did mention an expensive holiday. That was my focus, which may have been incorrect.

It's a lot easier to not take a vacation this year than it is to give up your daily cup of coffee or your favorite shows that you watch every single week.

That was my point. And the bang for your buck is huge in comparison. Not taking a expensive holiday saves a ton of money compared to everything else you've been thinking about (Plus one could always just take a cheaper holiday, like driving somewhere relatively close, instead of flights to an overseas beach, so you're still doing SOMETHING for a holiday - not giving it up entirely).

That's the least painful choice.

Again my real advice is not put yourself in this position. If one doesn't have a 6-12 month emergency fund, build one right now before going on any more holidays.

Painful cuts aren't the solution; instead stop or slow one's INCREASE in spending. There's much less pain with spending what you already spending, but waiting longer to spend MORE. Save all raises going forward to build up savings without a lot of painful cuts.

If one makes $80,000 a year now, and feels like they can't save very much (say only 5% in the 401k - so $4000 a year). Well, when you get a raise to $84,000, save half that raise ($2000 a year). Still gives you $2000 a year more to spend for fun, but you just increased your savings 50%... from $4000 a year to $6000 a year.

It adds up over time. If 10 years from now, one is making $130,000 a year, and you saved half your raises, you are now living on $101,000 a year and saving $29,000 a year (before you were living on $76,000 and saving $4000 a year).

Your saving rate went from 5% to 22%, and you still got to increase your standard of living over that time.

One's lifestyle still went up, AND you are now saving enough to weather a storm.

[cs412a]

OP, I'm not sure how useful this thread has been to you.

Hopefully you have considered posts that respond to how you might help your children understand how to use money in optimal ways. I think the overall consensus is that painful cuts won't be helpful for your children.

With regard to painful spending cuts, for me it was never a question of cutting back but rather of painful choices. For instance, for most of my working life (pre-ACA), I wasn't covered by employer insurance and had to pay for my own medical insurance. This was in the bad old days when you could be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. I remember foregoing mammograms because I didn't want a diagnosis of "cystic breast disease" to prevent me from getting medical care for breast cancer (and yeah, medical insurance companies were/are that sleazy.)

For me the choice was, do I pay hundreds of dollars a month for medical insurance despite the fact that I was in good health, or do I forego medical insurance and put that money into my traditional IRA or ROTH? I've experienced going to an ER and being told I needed emergency surgery and that my court-ordered insurance coverage had been canceled by my ex-husband. So that made the choice of paying for insurance a no-brainer. And, even though I never actually had to use that expensive insurance to pay hospital bills, I don't regret it. But it would have been nice to have been able to invest that money.

One choice I do regret is not paying to have my son's wisdom teeth removed when he was a teen. I had a great dentist, so I knew when she recommended this that it was needed. However, I decided that it was better to contribute the money to his college expenses, and that I could put it off until after he finished college. Well, he moved to Japan shortly after graduating, so that never happened. Ultimately, when he did get it done in his 40s, he didn't choose the best clinician and it was a really painful experience. I believe that if I had had the oral surgery done when it was first suggested, it would have been a lot easier for him.

Personally, I don't believe suffering builds character, and I would prefer a world where no one had to suffer. Suffering sucks.

[stoptothink]

how can this thread be actionable when "painful" in this context is so subjective?

You keep asking this. Why do you want this thread shut down so bad?

Does it make you *uncomfortable that other people spend their money on expanded lifestyles through consumption of items/experiences that you didn't have while growing up and now choose to withhold from you and your family?

*If uncomfortable is the wrong word, I apologize, but maybe you can share what word you would replace it with.

There is also a chance I misunderstand how you've chosen to live, even though there's been countless examples of you professing your frugality and lack of spending.

You respond to my posts in numerous threads with weird questions. It's fine if you have difficulty understanding how I communicate, but it's not productive for me to attempt to answer. I think it's very clear that several others are also confused as to how this thread is actionable and threads deemed "not actionable" usually don't last long on this board.

[Beensabu]

I’d like to know that when the rainy day hits, if it exhausts my buffers, that I won’t be someone that first maxes out my credit cards / heloc / etc. for discretionary spending, before capitulating.

If that happens (buffers exhausting), you need to remove your cards from all of your wallets/purses and move to physical cash for daily spend. It's too easy to keep swiping.

[HomerJ]

I’d like to know that when the rainy day hits, if it exhausts my buffers, that I won’t be someone that first maxes out my credit cards / heloc / etc. for discretionary spending, before capitulating.

Something I forgot to mention.

The fact that you are even thinking about this now means it's extremely likely you won't be that kind of person.

I don't think you have to worry.

But since you are worrying, I would work on increasing your buffers a bit. Seems to be a better solution than practicing painful cuts.

[vfinx]

Taking away the expensive holiday is easy. I mean, just don't plan the next one if bad times hit.

Easy for you, ok. Universally easy, I would disagree with.

Okay, you really got to explain yourself here.

How is NOT taking an expensive vacation that you haven't PLANNED YET super painful?

It sounds to me like you don't need to be practicing painful spending cuts. It sounds to me like you need an emergency fund. Do you have 6-12 months of expenses in cash right now? It sounds to me like you need to be more conservative in your portfolio, so if a 50% stock market crash happens tomorrow (AND IT MIGHT - THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE), you should be able to withstand it.

THOSE are the changes you need to be making right now, not practicing silly "painful spending cuts". Get yourself set right while times are good.

If you lose your job, and you have an emergency fund, you can take the vacation you already planned and paid for, but don't plan or pay for another one until you find another job.

How is that hard?

"Hey honey, I know we have no money coming in... Want to take a river cruise from Amsterdam to Switzerland?"

No, it's NOT HARD to NOT ask that question until you find another job. It's NOT PAINFUL to skip the NEXT vacation when bad times hit.

Sheesh.

Frugality is hard for a lot of people. That is all I meant. I don’t think that is a particularly controversial take. And it certainly wasn’t meant to be an offensive one. Best leave it there I think.

Sorry I blew up a bit... You may be talking about frugality in general. But you did mention an expensive holiday. That was my focus, which may have been incorrect.

It's a lot easier to not take a vacation this year than it is to give up your daily cup of coffee or your favorite shows that you watch every single week.

That was my point. And the bang for your buck is huge in comparison. Not taking a expensive holiday saves a ton of money compared to everything else you've been thinking about (Plus one could always just take a cheaper holiday, like driving somewhere relatively close, instead of flights to an overseas beach, so you're still doing SOMETHING for a holiday - not giving it up entirely).

That's the least painful choice.

Again my real advice is not put yourself in this position. If one doesn't have a 6-12 month emergency fund, build one right now before going on any more holidays.

Painful cuts aren't the solution; instead stop or slow one's INCREASE in spending. There's much less pain with spending what you already spending, but waiting longer to spend MORE. Save all raises going forward to build up savings without a lot of painful cuts.

If one makes $80,000 a year now, and feels like they can't save very much (say only 5% in the 401k - so $4000 a year). Well, when you get a raise to $84,000, save half that raise ($2000 a year). Still gives you $2000 a year more to spend for fun, but you just increased your savings 50%... from $4000 a year to $6000 a year.

It adds up over time. If 10 years from now, one is making $130,000 a year, and you saved half your raises, you are now living on $101,000 a year and saving $29,000 a year (before you were living on $76,000 and saving $4000 a year).

Your saving rate went from 5% to 22%, and you still got to increase your standard of living over that time.

One's lifestyle still went up, AND you are now saving enough to weather a storm.

Thanks HomerJ. Appreciate the input. I should have been more careful with my wording. I used "holiday" as a euphemistic example for discretionary spending, and that was confusing, apologies.

[Dregob]

- ceasing to flush pee (6 - DW is not on board. Can only really do this in select circumstances. Run the risk of an explosive argument every time you save three cents.)

Words to live by: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down."

How much did that save you?

[almostretired1965]

I'd like to have a dog but avoid it due to the high costs. I travel a lot for work and personal travel because I like it. Kennels and daily pet sitters get expensive.

Do I regret it? Sometimes. But I would regret having a dog more.

10 years ago I would have agreed with this. 2 dogs and thousands of dollars of vet bills later and all I can say is that it was the best money we have ever spent.

[ScubaHogg]

Highly relative, but it's certainly a meaningful way to save water.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you suppose you are saving? What do you think happens to the water?

[TomatoTomahto]

Highly relative, but it's certainly a meaningful way to save water.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you suppose you are saving? What do you think happens to the water?

Not who you asked, but in my case I save the electricity it takes to pump it up 1000 feet or so from my well, whatever electricity the water softener uses, the septic pump to get it out to the leaching field.

An even bigger savings is if I don’t have to dig a new well and/or have the pump serviced or repaired. And then there’s the septic service…

[hvaclorax]

Over all, I live a very simple and frugal lifestyle. I do have one expensive hobby, though (modular synthesizers) and refraining from buying the Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ynthesizer is causing me a bit of pain.

Thanks for this information. I had no idea. I’m “musical” but seriously you sound amazing.

[pizzy]

Highly relative, but it's certainly a meaningful way to save water.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you suppose you are saving? What do you think happens to the water?

Not who you asked, but in my case I save the electricity it takes to pump it up 1000 feet or so from my well, whatever electricity the water softener uses, the septic pump to get it out to the leaching field.

An even bigger savings is if I don’t have to dig a new well and/or have the pump serviced or repaired. And then there’s the septic service…

Is this a real consideration that you have when deciding whether or not to flush your toilet?

[hvaclorax]

Highly relative, but it's certainly a meaningful way to save water.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you suppose you are saving? What do you think happens to the water?

Not who you asked, but in my case I save the electricity it takes to pump it up 1000 feet or so from my well, whatever electricity the water softener uses, the septic pump to get it out to the leaching field.

An even bigger savings is if I don’t have to dig a new well and/or have the pump serviced or repaired. And then there’s the septic service…

Is this a real consideration that you have when deciding whether or not to flush your toilet?

It’s green.

[PeninsulaPerson]

10 years ago I would have agreed with this. 2 dogs and thousands of dollars of vet bills later and all I can say is that it was the best money we have ever spent.

What makes the OP's question so interesting is the philosophical nature of it.

If one doesn't have to make a "painful spending cut" but chooses to - what is the cut, what is the reason, what is the result? A lot of moving pieces. It's definitely a worthy thing to consider.

As I recall, Mr. Money Mustache once wrote that he didn't have a dog (tho' I believe his son wanted a pet) because pets are expensive.

I didn't follow Mr. Money Mustache but I read his stuff for a while until I realized he probably was not "actually" living on the $25,000-ish a year he claimed.

His point about pets being expensive is 100% true.
But (again, as I recall) it sounded like he refused his son a dog on that basis when really MMM had resources far beyond subsistence level.

A few years later I checked in and apparently MMM had gotten divorced. No way to ever know for sure but it's easy to wonder if his ex got tired of it all. (I have often wondered if - after the divorce - she got their son a dog!)

But that's what makes it all worth thinking about and a valid question that the OP asked, it seems to me.
And there's no indication that the OP is headed for divorce! At all. Just following up on his Thought Question.

(Since - as was said above - divorce is expensive, it's also easy to wonder if in retrospect MMM wished he had gotten his son a dog!)

[Halicar]

Over all, I live a very simple and frugal lifestyle. I do have one expensive hobby, though (modular synthesizers) and refraining from buying the Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ynthesizer is causing me a bit of pain.

Thanks for this information. I had no idea. I’m “musical” but seriously you sound amazing.

Thanks, but you probably wouldn't say that if you heard the "music" I make haha. It's definitely in the "experimental" category.

[gatorking]

I am considering enacting some spending cuts to exercise the muscle, and prove to myself that I can do it.

This reminds me of the Stoic exercise "Practice Misfortune".
“It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself for difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favors on it is then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs.” — Seneca

Seneca, who enjoyed great wealth as the adviser of Nero, suggested that we ought to set aside a certain number of days each month to practice poverty. Take a little food, wear your worst clothes, get away from the comfort of your home and bed. Put yourself face to face with want, he said, you’ll ask yourself “Is this what I used to dread?”

from: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism ... misfortune

[kd2008]

I am considering enacting some spending cuts to exercise the muscle, and prove to myself that I can do it.

This reminds me of the Stoic exercise "Practice Misfortune".
“It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself for difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favors on it is then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs.” — Seneca

Seneca, who enjoyed great wealth as the adviser of Nero, suggested that we ought to set aside a certain number of days each month to practice poverty. Take a little food, wear your worst clothes, get away from the comfort of your home and bed. Put yourself face to face with want, he said, you’ll ask yourself “Is this what I used to dread?”

from: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism ... misfortune

Similar concepts exist in other cultures. Many practicing Hindus fast whole day once a week as part of ritual and worship of a deity (it is a polytheistic religion). The philosophy behind it is similar to that of stoicism.

I admit I am critical of OP's line of thinking. May be because my cultural ethos (like the practice above) incorporate and enable dealing with negative circumstances and that a "special" undertaking is unwarranted to prepare for pain.

[ScubaHogg]

Not who you asked, but in my case I save the electricity it takes to pump it up 1000 feet or so from my well, whatever electricity the water softener uses, the septic pump to get it out to the leaching field.

An even bigger savings is if I don’t have to dig a new well and/or have the pump serviced or repaired. And then there’s the septic service…

I mean, you do you.

For most folks though flushing a handful of times less a day will likely be a rounding error in their total water usage (showers, kitchen, laundry) and, ergo, in the things you mentioned

[PeninsulaPerson]

I mean, you do you.

For most folks though flushing a handful of times less a day will likely be a rounding error in their total water usage (showers, kitchen, laundry) and, ergo, in the things you mentioned

TomatoTomahto has said (if I have it right) that they live in rural Massachusetts and have a well.

Presumably they are saving on paying for town water -or- maybe their location doesn't have town water.

People often complain about the cost of water but I say thank God for the Quabbin Reservoir and good clean water that I don't have to worry about or lug (as people did in the olden days!). One of those things that's worth the $$$

[hvaclorax]

Over all, I live a very simple and frugal lifestyle. I do have one expensive hobby, though (modular synthesizers) and refraining from buying the Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ynthesizer is causing me a bit of pain.

Thanks for this information. I had no idea. I’m “musical” but seriously you sound amazing.

Thanks, but you probably wouldn't say that if you heard the "music" I make haha. It's definitely in the "experimental" category.

$5000 buys a lot of amazing.

[hvaclorax]

I wasn't aware that people used beach towels as one's everyday bath towels.

I use whatever is handy, but if there’s a choice, I will always prefer the thinnest most skin-stimulating towel. Often, it’s a beach towel. I don’t understand the fascination with plush and (imo) non-absorbent towels; it seems to me that they just move the water like a squeegee.

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Bath! It ain’t my birthday, it’s not Christmas.

[TomatoTomahto]

I mean, you do you.

For most folks though flushing a handful of times less a day will likely be a rounding error in their total water usage (showers, kitchen, laundry) and, ergo, in the things you mentioned

TomatoTomahto has said (if I have it right) that they live in rural Massachusetts and have a well.

Presumably they are saving on paying for town water -or- maybe their location doesn't have town water.

People often complain about the cost of water but I say thank God for the Quabbin Reservoir and good clean water that I don't have to worry about or lug (as people did in the olden days!). One of those things that's worth the $$$

We are on 2 wells. There is no option for municipal water. When we first moved here, we left the irrigation system alone and discovered in the first summer that sometimes the wells would be empty after irrigation and would take a few hours to replenish. We changed from the previous owner’s preposterous fertilize and irrigation approach to force a pristine lawn to turning much of the property over to meadow and indigenous trees.

From a financial standpoint, I could afford to flush thousands of times a day. But, water is finite here. The previous owner was frugal, and one day it dawned on me that he didn’t pay to drill a second well because the first one was so successful

Since we have more electricity (solar) than water, I optimize for water by having hot water recirculation pumps and water efficient clothes washer and dishwasher.

[jayjayc]

When I was hyper-aggressive about paying off my student debt, I decided to forego traveling to some friends' weddings. I only traveled for close friends. I regret this decision immensely.

[familythriftmd]

Some of the painful parts of my spending cuts have to do with the corollary to the hedonic adaptation model in that it can be painful not to increase hedonic activity.

I am in a high-paying profession, meaning that most colleagues also make a lot of money.
So people can't understand why the kids don't do select/premier/traveling sports (mind you, I'd consider it if the kids really insisted, but they don't want to be traveling all over the midwest every weekend for sporting events, either).
They don't understand why we don't have country club memberships, or have really expensive whisky, or travel internationally every year, etc.

I also don't have a TV, nor do I have any paid streaming services on a phone or computer, either. This doesn't bother me so much as it can be annoying to watch the shock if I open my big mouth and tell someone that I don't have any of those things.

Funny how some of the pain of cutting back is actually all my perception of what others' perception is!

[vfinx]

I am considering enacting some spending cuts to exercise the muscle, and prove to myself that I can do it.

This reminds me of the Stoic exercise "Practice Misfortune".
“It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself for difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favors on it is then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs.” — Seneca

Seneca, who enjoyed great wealth as the adviser of Nero, suggested that we ought to set aside a certain number of days each month to practice poverty. Take a little food, wear your worst clothes, get away from the comfort of your home and bed. Put yourself face to face with want, he said, you’ll ask yourself “Is this what I used to dread?”

from: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism ... misfortune

Thank you, I found that educational. Some of the explanations in there really hit it on the head for me.

It’s important to remember that this is an exercise and not a rhetorical device. He doesn’t mean “think about” misfortune, he means live it. Comfort is the worst kind of slavery because you’re always afraid that something or someone will take it away. But if you can not just anticipate but practice misfortune, then chance loses its ability to disrupt your life.

Emotions like anxiety and fear have their roots in uncertainty and rarely in experience. Anyone who has made a big bet on themselves knows how much energy both states can consume. The solution is to do something about that ignorance. Make yourself familiar with the things, the worst-case scenarios, that you’re afraid of.

Practice what you fear, whether a simulation in your mind or in real life. The downside is almost always reversible or transient.

[an_asker]

[...]We are on 2 wells.[...]

You do sound Well 2 do

[Colorado14]

This has been a fascinating discussion. We will know who to thank when it gets shut down, which is likely to happen very soon. (Oh, it appears that the argumental posts have been removed.)

My painful cuts happened mostly when I was younger. We grew up without a lot of extras, but always had food on the table. So this Thanksgiving, I will be thankful for that. My spouse and I were super savers and very frugal in our 20s and 30s. Probably we were too frugal. The upside is that we were able to retire early. Sometimes I think back and wish we would have spent more when we were younger, but there are no do overs...

[LadyGeek]

I removed a number of contentious posts. The discussion was derailed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette

At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.

Please stay focused on the consumer aspects.

[an_asker]

I removed a number of contentious posts. The discussion was derailed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette

At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.

Please stay focused on the consumer aspects.

Looks like my post got removed. My apologies! I was just being facetious. Will stay on topic.

[FeralCat]

I am considering enacting some spending cuts to exercise the muscle, and prove to myself that I can do it.

This reminds me of the Stoic exercise "Practice Misfortune".
“It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself for difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favors on it is then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs.” — Seneca

Seneca, who enjoyed great wealth as the adviser of Nero, suggested that we ought to set aside a certain number of days each month to practice poverty. Take a little food, wear your worst clothes, get away from the comfort of your home and bed. Put yourself face to face with want, he said, you’ll ask yourself “Is this what I used to dread?”

from: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism ... misfortune

Similar concepts exist in other cultures. Many practicing Hindus fast whole day once a week as part of ritual and worship of a deity (it is a polytheistic religion). The philosophy behind it is similar to that of stoicism.

I admit I am critical of OP's line of thinking. May be because my cultural ethos (like the practice above) incorporate and enable dealing with negative circumstances and that a "special" undertaking is unwarranted to prepare for pain.

Hello, hasn't anyone heard the story of the Buddha? He was a Prince who left home and meditated and took only small amounts of food to understand suffering, death and things like that. I understand completely what the OP is trying to accomplish. I come from a completely different place - I ran away from home at the age of 14, and that was that. I had to put myself through college, and that sort of experience really only scars a person. I try to do the opposite of the OP, in that I try to intentionally increase my spending, and then decide how that feels. Perhaps we will both find the middle way.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

Perhaps you use fabric softener? I don't, and my plush towels are very absorbent. I can't imagine using a beach towel as a bath towel. They wouldn't even fit on my towel racks.

Growing up with 8 peeps in family I can remember drying off with a wash cloth when the hall closet was out of towels.

Similar here on the family size! There were two things we did during the family years that I didn't do once I struck out on my own.
1. My mom did all of the laundry daily. ALL of it. Every.single.day. And that included washcloths and towels. When I left home, I reused both of these for multiple days for years and only recently went one washcloth per day upon my DW's insistence.
2. To get everybody through the queue before school, we were all required to take our baths in the evenings. As soon as I was off to college, it was always mornings! Not going to bed "clean" was a bit of an adjustment, though.

cheers.

Growing up with 7 of us in, in a 2bdr/1btr ~1000sq. ft home has a way of making no spending cuts "painful". It's pretty easy to do without what you have never had.

+1
DW an I, family of 4 in 2bdrm 1bth, 600 sf apt. street parking.
Spending cuts: thrift store shopping day.
j

+3. family of 5 in a 2bd, 1 bath walkup, 700sf apt. street parking and a landlord who didn't like to heat the house in the winters.
Spending cuts: its called making due with what you have in order to survive. Personally, I find this thread to be insulting to those who really know the what a painful spending cut is, instead of these self-imposed deprivation ideas.

[vfinx]

+3. family of 5 in a 2bd, 1 bath walkup, 700sf apt. street parking and a landlord who didn't like to heat the house in the winters.
Spending cuts: its called making due with what you have in order to survive. Personally, I find this thread to be insulting to those who really know the what a painful spending cut is, instead of these self-imposed deprivation ideas.

My parents lost our home to the banks when I was a kid during one of the economic crises, and we were in a very poor high density country where 700sf for 5 would be considered quite good already. We never went hungry (fortunate to have extended family support), but I think some presumptions have been made about the premise of this thread, that aren't accurate. In fact, some of those childhood memories are what lead me to these questions. Regardless, I regret having insulted you. It truly was not the intention.

[familythriftmd]

I think I get it. How to know how to cut back so that when things get bad (for the first time, or again), you know what to do.

[tfunk]

I asked my family to eat what was in the house rather than buying a bunch of new food. They did great. We almost had the freezer cleaned out in late February 2020. Genius! Luckily, I made no such toilet paper challenge.

I find this interesting. We have things in our cabinets - such as prepackaged meals - that are dated years ago. I sometimes dream about just eating what we have in our cabinets to see how long we could go. Lots of rice, beans, instant potatoes, etc. The dream is to clean out some space so I could buy some new items to store!